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Deep Dive with Ali Abdaal

Steven Bartlett: 9 Secret Habits That Made Me A Millionaire

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Steven BartlettguestAli Abdaalhost

Sep 7, 20231h 45mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

From Plymouth Outsider to University Dropout
Ali asks Steven about his backstory. Steven describes moving from Botswana to Plymouth, the shame of growing up poor, being expelled from school, and dropping out of university after one lecture. He explains that he loves education but not institutions, and that his refusal to do things he dislikes is a useful signal.
- •Born in Botswana to a Nigerian mother and English father, then raised as the only Black and the poorest family in Plymouth
- •Gave up on school around 14-15 and ran small business experiments instead, such as vending machine deals and parties
- •Expelled twice, then dropped out of university after one lecture, leaving him estranged from his mother for years
- •Says he is self-educated and obsessed with what he likes, but incapable of doing what he doesn't
- •Argues people should rank their internal feeling signal above others' opinions, which makes quitting easier
The Quitting Framework
Steven explains why quitting deserves the same respect as starting, since starting something new means quitting something else. He walks through his decision framework, which splits into things that are hard and things that suck.
- •Quitting and starting are both actions of winners and have a two-way relationship
- •Examples of successful people quitting seemingly sensible paths: Darren Brown and Jimmy Carr
- •If it's hard, ask whether the hardship is worth the reward; hard and meaningless is the worst situation
- •If it sucks, ask whether you can make it not suck and whether that effort is worth the reward
- •He calls the framework intentionally ambiguous
The Discipline Equation
Ali asks how discipline squares with quitting things that don't feel good. Steven describes his equation of why a goal matters, plus enjoyment, minus friction, and uses the bin example and his gym habit after the pandemic. Ali shares that the health chapter led him to book a personal trainer.
- •Time management techniques fail because people lack discipline, which links to scarce time and death
- •The equation: why the goal matters plus enjoyment minus friction
- •Steven never went to the gym for 27 years until the pandemic made health his top priority; he now goes about 82% of the time
- •Ali responded to the health reminder by hiring a personal trainer to make exercise fun
- •Disciplines also compete with each other for limited time, which is why Steven doesn't meditate
First-Party Evidence and Changing Beliefs
Discussing how pain drives change, Ali recalls that seeing miserable doctors turned an intellectual idea into action. Steven distinguishes knowledge from belief and argues that only first-party evidence from your own experience changes stubborn beliefs. After sponsor reads, Ali asks Steven about his own limiting beliefs.
- •Change tends to happen when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of changing, and rock bottom can drive transformation
- •Ali says seeing unhappy doctors made him pursue a side business with little discipline needed
- •Steven separates knowledge from belief, using the flat Earther example
- •Self-belief is built by stepping into growth zones, not by affirmations in the mirror
- •Steven says one of his limiting beliefs is that he is not organized, rooted in his messy childhood home
Shame, Insecurity and Being Driven or Dragged
Steven describes the shame of his childhood in Plymouth, hiding where he lived and chemically relaxing his hair. He says this insecurity feeds his ambition and the sense of being dragged. Ali asks why he is still so relentless.
- •Steven felt hard-wired 'not enoughness' from growing up poorer than everyone around him
- •He hid his family's van and house from classmates to avoid shame
- •He says part of him is dragged rather than driven, which is why he asks guests if they are driven or dragged
- •Ali notes that Steven seems relentless despite his success
Five Principles for Career Happiness
Steven answers what he's doing it all for. He gives a mix of motives and then five factors for work happiness: challenge, progress, subjectively meaningful goals, autonomy and control, and a supportive community. He illustrates progress with Brailsford's cycling team and a 1% gain at the podcast.
- •Helping people feels better than hitting milestones like three million subscribers, though he still cares about metrics
- •Challenge: keep team members one foot out of their depth or they will quit
- •Progress: Brailsford said marginal gains made the team feel they were going somewhere
- •Meaning, autonomy and a supportive community complete the five, and the subject matter matters less than these
- •The trackpad under the table is an example of a 1% gain for capturing notes
Power, Play and People vs. Steven's Five
Ali explains that his book Feel-Good Productivity uses Power, Play and People, and the two map their frameworks onto each other. Ali tells the Richard Feynman story to illustrate play, and explains why purpose comes last in his book.
- •Power combines autonomy, control and a sense of improvement
- •Play is approaching work in the spirit of play; Feynman cured his burnout by rediscovering it
- •Ali ends with purpose because starting with why can feel overwhelming
- •Steven wishes he had used alliteration in his own book
Comparing the Two Books and the Power of Threes
Ali and Steven compare Happy Sexy Millionaire with the new 33 Laws book, with Steven saying the first feels less like him now. They discuss naming ideas like Plan A thinking and the memorability of alliteration and threes, then move to a lighthearted tangent on how many threes Ali used in his own book.
- •Ali took the time chips and the quitting framework from the first book, and the health reminder and marketing laws from the second
- •Steven calls the new book more technical and specific, while the first is broader, with more opinions and vibes
- •Ali praises Plan A thinking as a better framing than manifestation
- •Both note that threes and alliteration make ideas easier to remember
- •Ali's book has three parts with three chapters each and three subheadings per chapter
Comparison, Cognitive Dissonance and Admiration
Ali admits that Steven's vlog left him feeling envious and asks how Steven handles comparison. Steven says comparison is a normal survival shortcut, and that what matters is turning it into inspiration. He describes holding dissonance open rather than diminishing others, and separating admiration from aspiration.
- •Comparison is ingrained for survival, like sugar cravings and status, so start with empathy rather than self-resentment
- •He studies people like MrBeast and Rogan for lessons instead of feeling jealous
- •Cognitive dissonance can be dismissed ('he has a team of 30') or held open the way the Israeli president did about Reagan
- •Low self-esteem makes others' success feel like proof you're not good enough, as with Steven's friend and the gym comment
- •He separates admiration from aspiration and says he is okay with who he is now
Filling the Five Buckets in the Right Order
Steven tells the story of Elon Musk jogging past a person in San Francisco and the five buckets framework. He recounts the monk's advice about pouring from a full cup. He urges prioritizing knowledge and skills early, citing his years in call centers.
- •The five buckets are knowledge, skills, resources, network and reputation
- •Knowledge and skills can't be emptied and fill the other three
- •A monk told him he cannot pour out for others what he doesn't have himself
- •Choose early jobs for knowledge and skills over status or pay, as Steven did in call centers
- •Ali adds that working at a small startup first is a cheap way to learn and observe failure
Plan A Thinking and Where Steven Spends His Focus
Steven explains law 22: studies show that even thinking about an alternative reduces motivation for the main goal. He applies it to his own all-in start and then admits he is struggling with overextension. He describes saying no, doing only the biggest and smallest things, and calling his urge to start companies a disease he handles with a someday shelf.
- •Candy bar studies show that considering a plan B lowers motivation for plan A
- •With no fallback when he dropped out, he was either going to succeed or succeed
- •Ali's team works in six-week cycles with one quest per person
- •Steven admits he has overextended himself and can't be consistently intense
- •A CEO should focus on big strategy and small personal gestures, and use a someday shelf to hold ideas
What Steven Would Do with an Extra $500 Million
Ali asks how Steven would spend his time with an extra 500 million. Steven separates the answers for starting from zero and for keeping his current businesses, naming the podcast as his ikigai. The conversation turns to Tony Robbins' artist, manager and entrepreneur archetypes and Steven's creative side.
- •Starting from zero, he would build a media company around podcasting, which he calls his ikigai
- •With current companies, he'd put 100 million each into Flight Story, Thirdweb and Diary of a CEO and its charitable initiative
- •Ali describes Tony Robbins' archetypes of artist, manager and entrepreneur and sees himself as an artist
- •Steven resonates with art through story arcs, trailers and the live show, even if he doesn't call himself creative
- •Without being an entrepreneur, he says he'd be a movie director or a therapist
Harmony Instead of Work-Life Balance
Ali asks how Steven balances work with relationship, friends and family. Steven calls both of them strugglers and rejects work-life balance in favor of harmony, with seasons of life and the happy workaholic as the North Star. They discuss regular check-ins.
- •Ali uses rules like fixed date nights, and Steven teases him about the Elon scenario
- •Steven applies no measurement framework to his relationship, unlike his work
- •Balance is the wrong frame; the aim is harmony where you feel good about your life
- •Life comes in seasons, and a happy workaholic acting from contentment rather than insecurity is fine
- •Bad weeks of disconnection show up as small issues blowing up, so check-ins matter
Relationship Reviews and Managing Expectations
Ali describes the Notion-based relationship reviews he and his girlfriend do, with questions, action points and named 'gates' for big arguments. This leads Steven to Mo Gawdat's idea that happiness equals met expectations, with his airplane story and gratitude as a way to influence joy.
- •Ali and his girlfriend use a shared Notion template with appreciation and friction questions and action points
- •A work holiday misunderstanding led them to align expectations before every trip
- •Mo Gawdat's idea: we're happy when expectations are met and unhappy when they're not
- •Steven's joy on planes faded as expectations rose, so he now touches the plane and reminds himself of the absurdity
- •Unmet expectations are the source of unhappiness in relationships
Handling Criticism
Ali asks how Steven copes with criticism as a public figure. Steven says it comes with the job and staying true to your values gives an anchor. He explains how he avoids searching himself and tells the boxer shorts story.
- •Criticism is an occupational hazard that comes with the claps
- •Being anchored in his own intentions and integrity helps him take feedback, as with the Mo Gawdat AI episode
- •He avoids reading, searching or having friends send things, and looks only for feedback that could be valuable
- •It still stings, but the gap between seeing something and reacting has shortened
- •He chooses to keep doing what he loves rather than withdrawing
Closing Thoughts: Gratitude and Responsibility
Ali thanks Steven and shares how gracious he was with Ali's videographer Gordon. Steven reflects on the responsibility of being a public figure and the privilege of people caring. The two trade thanks and discuss sharing book feedback.
- •Ali praises Steven's work as inspiring to his team
- •Steven says he is trying his best to be a good person and sometimes falls short
- •He says everyone he meets is also meeting everyone they know, so it feels like a responsibility
- •He calls it a privilege that people care and hopes never to lose that

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