E21: Media misalignment, subjects controlling narratives & more with bestie guestie Draymond Green

Chamath Palihapitiya 0:00 (singing) Wet your beak. Come wet your beak. Wet your beak. Wet your beak. Ah, ah, ah, ah.

Jason Calacanis 0:05 Confirming I am recording, testing. I am testing my recording. And here we go.

Chamath Palihapitiya 0:12 (singing) You gotta wet your beak. Gotta wet your beak.

Jason Calacanis 0:14 Here we go in three, two...

Narrator 0:18 What went all in? Let your wits slide. Rain Man, David Sa- What went all in? And I said. We open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you guys. Queen of Quinoa. What went all in?

Jason Calacanis 0:34 Hey, everybody. It's the All In Podcast. Wet your beak, young Spielberg. Coming at you on a Friday morning.

Chamath Palihapitiya 0:42 (singing) Wet your beak. Gotta wet your beak.

Jason Calacanis 0:42 Afternoon drive time, the number 11 podcast in the world. It's the All In Podcast with the Queen of Quinoa, David Friedberg, Rain Man himself, with his hot new track from young Spielberg, I Am the Rain Man, David Sachs. And of course, wetting his beak, the absolute dictator, wetting his beak with his merch, merch game is strong, Chamath Palihapitiya. How's everybody doing on the backs of us becoming the number 11 podcast in the world?

David Friedberg 1:20 Really good. Really, really good.

Jason Calacanis 1:21 Wow, look at that enthusiasm. (laughs)

David Friedberg 1:23 Really great. No, I think we had an intermittent, uh, uh, uh, Sachiepoo is not... Apparently, he, uh... With, with all these, with all his week, uh, beak wetting, he hasn't had time to pay the internet bill.

Jason Calacanis 1:33 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 1:34 Hey, guys, I'm back.

Jason Calacanis 1:35 You can go ahead and upgrade your DSL from, from 56 kilobits. I think you can afford it, okay?

David Sacks 1:41 He's hit his bandwidth limit because he was watching himself on Tucker over and over again this morning.

Jason Calacanis 1:46 (laughs)

David Friedberg 1:46 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But, uh-

David Sacks 1:47 So he, he completely ran out of internet.

David Friedberg 1:48 ... I, I, I do, I do need to say this that yesterday, we do have firsthand evidence that David Sachs, after appearing on Tucker Carlson, then spent the next hour watching himself-

Jason Calacanis 1:57 (laughs)

David Friedberg 1:57 ... appear on Tucker Carlson. (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 1:59 Literally got up from the poker table-

David Friedberg 2:02 My gosh.

Jason Calacanis 2:02 ... refused to play poker with his besties because he had to watch himself-

David Friedberg 2:06 On repeat.

Jason Calacanis 2:07 ... no less than six times on Tucker.

David Friedberg 2:09 Oh, my gosh.

David Sacks 2:09 No, no, it must have been, it must have been-

Jason Calacanis 2:11 He watched it six times.

David Sacks 2:11 ... 20, 30 times. No, no headphones, just listening to the iPhone, looking at it.

Jason Calacanis 2:16 Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya 2:16 No, this is, this is-

Jason Calacanis 2:16 Holding it up to his ear just so he doesn't miss a word.

David Sacks 2:18 Sure.

Jason Calacanis 2:19 Optimizing his performance. What was it like to go on Fox News? Was this a dream for you, Sachs?

David Sacks 2:24 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 2:24 Is this a, is this a bucket list?

Chamath Palihapitiya 2:26 See, Jason, this is why you're such a scumbag because-

Jason Calacanis 2:30 (laughs)

David Sacks 2:30 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 2:31 ... I, I asked you guys, I said, "Hey, like, uh, Tucker Show's inviting me on. Should I go?" You know? And he, and you guys are like, "Yeah, yeah, it'll be great for ratings for the pod. You should definitely do it." And then after I do it, the first thing you guys say when I walk in the room is, "Oh, my God, you went on Tucker?"

Jason Calacanis 2:46 (laughs)

David Sacks 2:46 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 2:46 "How right wing are you?"

David Friedberg 2:49 (laughs)

David Sacks 2:50 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 2:50 "Do you realize that all your deal flow just got canceled?"

David Friedberg 2:53 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 2:53 "Yum, yum, I'm gonna get all your deals now."

Jason Calacanis 2:55 And, and by the way, that was the funniest part. Jason had premeditated-

David Sacks 2:59 Totally. (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 2:59 ... basically getting you to appear on Tucker-

David Sacks 3:01 Yeah.

Jason Calacanis 3:01 ... so as then to impune you and destroy you. (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 3:04 Yeah, take out goes, "Oh, I'm gonna get all your deals now. Yum, yum."

David Sacks 3:08 Yeah.

Jason Calacanis 3:10 (laughs)

David Sacks 3:10 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 3:10 All is fair when it comes to early stage deal flow.

Chamath Palihapitiya 3:13 Yeah, and then he starts tweeting. You know, he's like the first one to show a photo of me split screen with Tucker and...

David Sacks 3:19 (laughs) Absolutely.

Chamath Palihapitiya 3:19 ... seems like he's showing every-

Jason Calacanis 3:20 I was waiting. I was-

Chamath Palihapitiya 3:21 Right.

Jason Calacanis 3:21 ... I was literally watching it and the lead in was-

David Sacks 3:23 Time, it's time for the great take down.

Jason Calacanis 3:25 Actually, you did it in all seriousness. You did great. Um, I think it was worth doing. And he framed it as... I don't know if people saw it. You can look up Tucker Carlson bestie David Sachs. It'll come up number one. And, um, he said you were, um, essentially taking a very liberal, classic liberal point of view. So, he basically set the stage for you to not be a far right wing nut case. You were actually defending liberal principles of people should have the ability to have freedom of speech. Why don't you talk about what it was like?

Chamath Palihapitiya 3:58 Yeah, I mean, so, so you're right. I mean, he made the, the connection and the comparison to Net, uh, Hentoff, who was like the famous ACLU free speech lawyer. And, uh, and I really appreciate that because I do very much see myself in that mold of, uh, of somebody like Hentoff. Um, he wrote a book called Free Speech for Me, But Not For Thee. Um, sort of a famous line. Uh, because everybody wants free speech for themselves and their allies, but they want to deny it to people they disagree with. And, you know, they never seem to realize that censorship is a problem until it gets turned against them. And so, you know, the point I made about the, these Reddit kids who were censored is that... Look, this, this was not... Well, they, there was some raunchy speech in their message board. Uh, we all know that. But it was no different than any trading floor or trading pit or, or boiler room on Wall Street, right? It's the same kind of language. Yet, they were taken down and censored by Discord for, for hate speech. Why? Because they became very threatening to, you know, powerful insiders. And, um, you know, but how many of those, those Reddit kids, uh, saw it as a problem when, you know, Trump or his supporters got, or, or Parler got deplatformed a few weeks ago? They could never have imagined that that same censorship principle could ever get turned against them. And, um, and so we all have a blind spot to, towards censorship when we like the results. And, you know, Hentoff's point is always, "Look, it's not about the results. It's about who are you giving the power to, to, to censor to?" And that's what you have to be really careful of.

Jason Calacanis 5:29 In, in relation to that, how delightful has it been to not have Trump on Twitter, putting aside, you know, censorship? Even for you, as a Republican, a conservative, but liberal socially, I will note. Uh, you're very liberal socially. You're live and let live. Uh, pro-LBGTQ, of course. Uh, and, and, but to not have Trump on Twitter has been... All that cognitive space has come back. We get it all back.

Chamath Palihapitiya 5:58 Silence-

Jason Calacanis 5:59 Right?

Chamath Palihapitiya 6:00 Silence is, is, is bliss.

David Friedberg 6:02 Uh, what did you guys think-

Chamath Palihapitiya 6:03 So I was just-

David Friedberg 6:03 What did you guys think about the, um ... What is her name? Marjorie blah-biddy-blah Green-

Chamath Palihapitiya 6:08 (laughs)

David Friedberg 6:08 ... who just got completely censored? What, what exactly happened?

David Sacks 6:13 Yes. Sax, is that censorship?

Draymond Green 6:16 Yeah, if you're a crazy loon who believes that-

David Sacks 6:19 (laughs)

David Friedberg 6:19 (laughs) Part of the shooting was a false flag, what do we do there, Sax?

Chamath Palihapitiya 6:22 No, I mean, that's not, that's not censorship. It's just she got censured, I guess, um, because her colleagues thought she was out of line. T- uh, that's okay. I mean, if her colleagues want to vote for that, that's fine. Um ...

Draymond Green 6:33 So she can still say crazy stuff, she just can't do it and have this certain job?

Chamath Palihapitiya 6:38 Yeah, I mean, look, let, let's face it, when, when politicians say crazy stuff, it helps the other side. I mean, you know, Marjorie Green or whatever, her censorship, who does that help? It helps the Democrats. Um, you know, quite frankly, uh, does Trump being off Twitter, uh, does that really help the Democrats? I don't think so. I mean, um, you know, you could argue that, that Biden, uh, uh, or, or that Trump is the one unifying f- uh, opposition to Trump is the one unifying force in the Democratic coalition. So to, to the, the, the more Trump is out there, the, the more it bonds the Democratic coalition together. Um, so yeah, I mean, censorship has this way of, like, backfiring, and uh, you can't just look at it in terms of narrow, short-term political results.

David Friedberg 7:23 Speaking of censorship, I want to get your

David Friedberg 7:25 take on something else. I think these last two weeks have been a complete sea change in venture capital. And let me give you the set-up. It's all of a sudden seemed like, um, there's been a decision that's been made where the ecosystem of companies will basically use their own platforms and their own mediums to completely control the narrative and the dissemination of information about them, that the media, in the effort of company building, um, may have taken a big step back. Um, you know, I think, uh, the whole sort of, like, thing on Clubhouse was really interesting. I think, uh, this guy who just joined Andreessen Horowitz, um, who actually hosts a show on Clubhouse is really interesting. Um, I think there's some, like, uh, uh, really interesting emerging managers who just have these incredibly different ways of going to market-

Draymond Green 8:19 Sri Ram is his name.

David Friedberg 8:20 Uh, Sri Ram. Right.

Draymond Green 8:20 He's been hosting Good Times at 11:00 p- 10:00 or 11:00 PM every night on Clubhouse.

David Friedberg 8:25 Yeah.

Draymond Green 8:25 Marc Andreessen comes to it every night, and of course Elon came, interviewed Vlad. And then last night, Zuckerberg showed up, uh, in order to get blueprints for Clubhouse to then put it into (laughs) -

Chamath Palihapitiya 8:36 (laughs)

Draymond Green 8:36 ... Instagram and Facebook. (laughs)

David Friedberg 8:38 But what do you guys, what do you guys think of sort of, like, this entire sector of the economy basically trying to, I guess, organize an end-around on traditional media?

Draymond Green 8:46 It's, it's just ... It doesn't seem-

David Sacks 8:47 No, no, no.

Draymond Green 8:47 ... like it's just venture, right? I mean, look at, look at Trump. You know, he avoided having the traditional press conference as the, the, the channel for dissemination of his point of view and communication of his, uh, objectives, and he went on Twitter every day, and he just tweeted. Um, and I think, you know, anyone who's been part of a business or an operation that's had to deal with, you know, media gathering facts that, uh, that you don't consider to be true and you can't really counter their point and then they publish and it's static and it's out there, um, you're frustrated. And in the, in the, the world that we have today, which is many alternatives for going direct to our customer and going direct to our audience through social media and having control over that message, uh, it's appealing to make the switch away from traditional PR and going to social. I mean, Chamath, you don't put out press releases. You go on Twitter, and you make a statement about what your intentions are, and you publish-

David Friedberg 9:38 I-

Draymond Green 9:39 ... your one-pagers. And I feel like everyone's trying to do this, and there's all this, like, trend in big companies now too, which is how do you develop a quote unquote social media presence so you can speak directly to your audience and your customers without having to go through the press to do so?

David Friedberg 9:50 I find it very hard, um, to get the point across, um, by going through traditional media.

Draymond Green 9:58 Right.

David Friedberg 9:58 It's not that it, it's not that it can't be done, but I find it harder and harder. And the reason is because they're in such a ferocious competition with social media. And so they have to be just as click-oriented and newsworthy-

Draymond Green 10:10 Totally. Totally.

David Friedberg 10:10 ... um, as the next best tweet that's, that's trending at that time. So it's-

Draymond Green 10:14 That is the key issue.

David Friedberg 10:14 ... it's an almost impossible task.

Chamath Palihapitiya 10:15 Right. Well, Naval, Naval had a great line about this, which I think he tweeted a long time ago, which is that the internet commoditized the reporting of facts, and so at that point, the, the traditional media went wholesale into-

David Friedberg 10:27 Opinions.

Chamath Palihapitiya 10:28 ... opinions, into opinions. And so now, they all have an agenda of some kind.

Draymond Green 10:33 Totally.

Chamath Palihapitiya 10:33 And especially the tech press, their agenda basically is hatred of tech. I mean, they hate-

Draymond Green 10:39 Right.

Chamath Palihapitiya 10:39 ... the people they're reporting on. And I mean, J-Cal, you know this, right? I mean-

Draymond Green 10:42 Yeah, I mean, I, having been a journalist in this, i- it's really interesting to hear your opinions. And if you look at trust among, uh, Republicans all-time low, uh, in the press, and then just all Americans don't trust the press right now. They think there's hidden agendas. And it really is a confluence of events. What happened was the internet caused, um, the revenue streams of the press to get just violently compressed or eliminated. So you know, you had Craigslist take the classified business. Google and Facebook took the ad business and subscriptions, Netflix, Spotify, et cetera. So you have all that revenue is gone, and what that meant was they, uh, didn't have the resources to do fact-checking. And then the publishing schedule, because of blogging, which I was involved in, required that people file two, three, four times a day just to keep up. And so when you're filing even just twice a day, there is no time to get quotes from the subjects. So we have all, as people who are subjects, had quotes, uh, attributed to us that we're like, "Where did you pull that quote from?" Like, "Oh, three years ago you said this," or whatever. And then you don't even know you're gonna be in the story. Like, the hit piece they did on you, Chamath, some sports writer and SFGate did some hit piece on Chamath. Did they ever call you? Did they ever say, "Would you like to respond to this?"

Chamath Palihapitiya 12:02 No.

Draymond Green 12:02 That's how it used to work.

David Sacks 12:03 That's what you-

Draymond Green 12:04 Because-

David Sacks 12:04 That's what you learn when you get a degree in journalism, right? You call the subject, you interview them, you fact-check.

Draymond Green 12:07 Of course, and it used to be you filed once every two weeks, or maybe if you were in a weekly news, a news, like a Newsweek or a BusinessWeek, you filed once a week.

Jason Calacanis 12:16 ... magazines you filed once, uh, or twice per episode, per issue, or maybe once every other issue if you're a feature writer. Now they have to p- they have to publish so much-

David Friedberg 12:26 By the way, Jason, you said something-

Jason Calacanis 12:27 ... they don't do any fact-checking.

David Friedberg 12:28 You said something really, really important. It's the craziest thing where these guys will not even call you and say, "Here's what we're running," or, "Here's what we're going to say. Do you want to work through this with us? Do you want to tell us are there any inaccuracies?"

Jason Calacanis 12:42 Yeah.

David Friedberg 12:42 "We're really seeking the truth." Nobody's really seeking the truth. They're seeking clicks.

Jason Calacanis 12:46 Yes, and so here's what happens.

David Friedberg 12:48 Yeah.

Jason Calacanis 12:48 The- your salary is now determined by your number of followers on Twitter, as is your book deal. And your Substack then becomes your negotiating position versus your existing publication. So someone like Kara Swisher, who is not full-time at the New York Times, probably makes a half million or a million dollars a year doing her podcast with them and the editorial page. I would- I would say somewhere between 500K and a million. All the other writers there are looking at other people who've gotten significant followings and saying, "I have to get a big following." How do you get a big following? Well, Sax figured that out. He- he wasn't- didn't have a huge following on Twitter in the last couple of months, but since we did the podcast, Sax started having an opinion and picking a side and really owning his opinion. And what happened? Massive engagement.

David Friedberg 13:29 And, and, but in fairness, and also being super- and super intelligent and thoughtful about it.

Jason Calacanis 13:33 Of course, but anybody picking a side gets rewarded. And if you go down the middle, you don't get rewarded because people go, "That makes sense."

David Friedberg 13:42 But, but then I think that people-

Jason Calacanis 13:43 You're not outraged.

David Friedberg 13:43 ... then people should just be using facts as a jumping-off point as opposed to, like, weaving it into the narrative so that other folks get confused. Meaning, you know, it used to be the case that a newspaper has an opinion page. Well, no, now the whole newspaper is opinions.

Jason Calacanis 13:56 Correct.

David Friedberg 13:56 Because the facts you can just get from the AP, right?

Jason Calacanis 13:59 Right.

David Friedberg 13:59 Like there's- there's no point calling the New York Times to figure out what the hell is going on in the world.

Jason Calacanis 14:03 Really what they should be doing is deep analysis.

Draymond Green 14:05 Yeah, like that New York Times article that you brought up a couple of weeks ago, Chamath, that we talked about on the pod was, uh, about the- the- the trust fund kids who were giving away all their money. You know, it wasn't an analysis of how many people with this amount of wealth are giving away their money. It was anecdotes to make the case that this is the storyline-

Jason Calacanis 14:23 Yeah.

Draymond Green 14:23 ... that they were kind of wanted to- to progress. And, you know, that is, I think the- where you're able to kind of stay within the bounds of traditional journalism but still, you know, get a narrative across that is a bit sensational and it is a bit kind of, you know, inspiring for clicks.

Jason Calacanis 14:37 And Friedberg, all you need to do, having been on the inside of these discussions, is when you have one person, it's a profile, as an example. When you have two, um, it's still a kind of a profile with an example. But once you get to three, you got a trend piece. And so what your editors say to you is-

Draymond Green 14:52 Yeah, and-

Jason Calacanis 14:52 ... "If you can get me a third person who's a trust fund kid, now we got a trend piece and we're in the clear, so let's do that and do the anecdotes instead of actual research, which then takes time and resources." And if you look what Andreessen Horowitz has specifically done with Clubhouse is, and it's really freaked out some New York Times reporters, I won't say which ones because every time I mention this one reporter, she pulls the female reporter card, and she pulled it last night where she said, "I'm a female reporter. I can block-"

David Friedberg 15:18 Who? Oh, Taylor Lawrence.

Jason Calacanis 15:19 "... Mark Andreessen."

David Friedberg 15:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Calacanis 15:20 I'm not gonna say who it is because she gets really upset.

David Friedberg 15:22 Taylor, no, no, no, it's Taylor Lawrence, but she, I mean, she, yeah, she tweeted it, so I don't think she's hiding from it. (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 15:27 Yeah, so she- she doesn't admit it and I don't want to bring up her name 'cause-

David Friedberg 15:28 She put it out, she put in the public.

Jason Calacanis 15:29 ... now bringing up her name, she will, I guarantee you, tweet-

David Friedberg 15:33 Can- well, can I say something about-

Jason Calacanis 15:34 ... "I am being harassed by Jason Calacanis because I'm a woman." She's saying that Mark Andreessen and Andreessen Horowitz blocked her from their Clubhouse room. When you're blocked from a Clubhouse room, you don't get access. So she said, "I'm gonna make my own shadow account." She did make a- a puppet account. Now she's listening in, and she got upset at me because I told people in her room, "Hey, there's a New York Times reporter in the room. Just be careful because this could wind up in print." She called that harassment and gender-based harassment.

Chamath Palihapitiya 15:59 Well, a- and- and- and the thing they're complaining about now is that all of us are trying to go around them and just tell our stories directly. And so they're all enraged. They're saying, "How dare Mark Andreessen or, you know, A16Z, you know, not talk to us." It's like, well, wh- why should they? I mean, you know, my experience with the press has been that about 75% of the time when they ask me for comment on something, it ends up being a hit piece. Um, m- maybe not on me, but on some- something I care about. And they- they- they twist what you say or take one little quote out of context to support the article and you end up giving credence to an article that you completely disagree with. And so- and so all of us have just stopped taking those calls. I mean, we just know, we just know there's such an agenda behind most of these, um, calls that we just, like, don't take them anymore.

Jason Calacanis 16:49 Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya 16:49 That's- that's why we're going direct.

David Friedberg 16:51 Yeah. I'll say one thing about Taylor Lawrence. I- I've learned a lot because I feel like, you know, being 44, I'm kind of out of the know.

Jason Calacanis 16:58 Yes.

David Friedberg 16:59 And I've learned a lot because she's- she has her finger on the process, Taylor.

Jason Calacanis 17:02 She understands TikTok.

David Friedberg 17:02 Sh- I mean, it's really- it's been really fun reading her, uh, reading her stuff. The other thing I'll say is on the Andreessen thing, I think what they have finally stumbled into, like I remember when, you know, Andreessen started about a year before I started Social Capital. And I remember the whole push was, you know, multi-services, right? And they were going to be recruiting and sales and this and that. You know, I suspect that all of that was kind of like pretty meager ROI and not that... it just burned a ton of fees. But I think this thing that they're doing is really smart because if they effectively build their own distribution arm through newsletters, Substack, podcasts, you know, clubhouse shows, whatever, that's a force to be reckoned with because then if you're a venture investor, you either have to be like them with their own version, in which case the- the brand of En- Andreessen really matters, or you're on this path of where the trend of venture is already going, which is solo GPs and individual people are the brands.

Jason Calacanis 18:01 Mm-hmm.

David Friedberg 18:01 And there's gonna be very little space in the middle. So for example, like, I do think that like, you know, the All In podcast helps, for example, David in Craft, um, or Jason, you in Launch, but you guys also-

Jason Calacanis 18:12 Oh, the syndicate is going crazy.

David Friedberg 18:13 But then you guys also stand alone as individuals. Um, but you know, if you're a traditional firm, you know, pick your organization which neither has brands nor has distribution-

Jason Calacanis 18:23 ... w- what are you doing? Well, you're probably forced to just pay the highest price. And so those returns for those folks in the middle get really bad, I think, over time. And, uh, you at some point have to decide, are you an individual person, right?

Draymond Green 18:36 Yes.

Jason Calacanis 18:36 And there's, like, some amazing up and coming GPs, we know them, Lachie Groom, g- folks like that.

Draymond Green 18:41 Yeah.

Jason Calacanis 18:41 Or are you, are you Andreessen Horowitz-

Draymond Green 18:43 Yeah.

Jason Calacanis 18:43 ... with this massive distribution-

Draymond Green 18:45 I mean, and now we have to-

Jason Calacanis 18:46 ... over?

Draymond Green 18:46 ... just, I think, face the reality that we are in competition, and I think that's what is making the press even more... that's what makes the situation even more complicated. I'm not saying the press is targeting people they consider competitive, but the press is not getting Vlad, Elon, or Zuck for interviews. But because Marc Andreessen has, you know, Clubhouse now, they put themselves on the suggested follower list, just like Twitter put Om, Kara Swisher, and some other journalists on the suggested follower list for Twitter. What that was, was it was payment, basically, like a million followers. Now Andreessen has a million followers, Balaji, all these folks from Andreessen, I believe, have, like, a million followers. So the press is complaining about that as well, because they can then dominate them in terms of getting subjects. So they've lost the subjects, none of us get on the phone with the press, with very few exceptions. And where is Sway or Vox or Ezra Klein when compared to our podcast, right? Like, we're right up there with them, if not ahead of them. I mean, we're the number one tech podcast. So it's, it's pretty crazy when you think about how much their world has changed, and now they're directly in competition with Andreessen Horowitz, All-In Podcast- Totally. ... you know, pick the firm doing a venture thing.

Jason Calacanis 19:59 Right.

Draymond Green 19:59 And that's gonna make this even more contentious, I predict.

Chamath Palihapitiya 20:01 Yes, I, I, I totally, uh, I agree with that, but I also... I, I do think fundamentally that all of us wouldn't have felt the same need to go around them if we-

Draymond Green 20:10 Right.

Chamath Palihapitiya 20:10 ... didn't feel that there was such a strong agenda. Just to bring one... Have you guys heard of Gelman amnesia effect? Michael Crichton-

Draymond Green 20:17 No, tell it.

Chamath Palihapitiya 20:17 Okay. So Michael Crichton, you know, who wrote Jurassic Park-

Draymond Green 20:20 Amazing.

Chamath Palihapitiya 20:21 ... and, uh, like a true polymath and genius, right?

Draymond Green 20:23 Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya 20:23 Um-

Draymond Green 20:23 Airframe, very good, by the way.

Chamath Palihapitiya 20:25 I mean, so many brilliant things, he, uh, was even a, a Hollywood director. True multitalented guy. Anyway, he described the, the Gelman amnesia effect as follows. He says, "You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well." So in this case, it was a physics paper by, on Gelman, okay? Um, he says-

Draymond Green 20:44 Oh, I do know this. Yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya 20:45 Yeah.

Draymond Green 20:45 This is great.

Chamath Palihapitiya 20:46 He says, he says, "You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backwards, reversing cause and effect. I call these the 'wet streets cause rain' stories. The paper is full of them." Okay. "In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, but then you turn the page to some other section, to national, international affairs, and you read the rest of the paper as if it was somehow more accurate."

Draymond Green 21:17 Totally.

Chamath Palihapitiya 21:17 Um, you turn the page and forget what you know, which is that the journalist just gets so much wrong. And, and I think, you know, and, and all of us kind of suffer from Gelman amnesia sometimes, because we still, I think, take... When we read something in the paper, we take it at face value. And I think... But we, we all know that when it comes to tech reporting or whatever, there's so much misinformation that's get, gets put out by these official channels. And I think at the end of the day, what's happening now with these end run around the traditional media, it's all a response to Gelman amnesia.

Draymond Green 21:52 I think it's a problem of complexity. Um, you know, I, I remember years ago, I would, when I was younger, I would read the paper or read, um, magazines about, uh, science and, um, engineering, and I was, you know, really interested in these topics. And it was only years later when I actually realized how wrong so many of those articles were as I started to read the original scientific research papers. But y- it takes a skill set and it takes a significant amount more time to really go into depth into those papers and to actually read them. The same is true, as you point out, with like, you know, geopolitical issues. Like, the complexity of what goes on-

Jason Calacanis 22:26 Yeah.

Draymond Green 22:27 ... uh, in foreign nations-

Jason Calacanis 22:27 Here, here's what I learned-

Draymond Green 22:28 And that's why-

Jason Calacanis 22:28 ... when I was a journalist. We would have about 10 to 20% of the information about what occurred when we've pu- published our first story. And then maybe every subsequent follow-up we get another 10%, which means if we were really hooked into a story and we did five versions of that story, we might get to 40%, 50% understanding. Whereas when the four of us are doing a deal, and then you see this impact, y- you know the press is getting it completely wrong. And that was fine if you felt the press was fair.

Draymond Green 23:00 Right. But Jason, I think it-

Jason Calacanis 23:00 And that's what's happening is now there i- there's a distinct feeling with subjects that they're being treated unfairly. And what I do when somebody connects to me and they say, "Hey, can you comment on Robinhood?" or whatever, I said, "I can't, but I do have a great story for you about a world positive startup." And I kept doing this with Teddy who kept asking me to give information on friends of mine, you know, the guy from, uh, Recode or whatever, who covers, like, philanthropy. And every time they contact me I say, "Yeah, you know, I can't comment on that, but you can talk to the founder, but I have three world positive stories. Are you interested in any of them?" And I just do that kind of to troll them. And they've never, in five years, taken me up on profiling a world positive. So if the press wants to turn this around, a very simple solution is one for you, one of your hate stories. So if you... For every time you want to take down a company, maybe write about one company that's doing something good. There's some company doing something in carbon sequestering right now-

Draymond Green 23:50 Yeah.

Jason Calacanis 23:50 ... that is super valid and world positive. Write about it. And the only time they write about Tesla is when Elon trips or, you know, something... uh, somebody dies in a car, or they write about Uber because there's some tragedy.

Draymond Green 24:00 Sorry, I just want to say, like, Jason, like, just going back a second, like, the... your point is one about bias, which is, you know, creating sensationalism, sell stories, it's what consumers want to consume-

Jason Calacanis 24:09 Sure.

Draymond Green 24:10 ... um, at the end of the day. So there's certainly, you know, um, a, a market-driven model there. The, the point I was trying to make earlier is there's also a separate problem around complexity, which is complex issues take time and take depth-

Jason Calacanis 24:19 Mm-hmm.

Draymond Green 24:19 ... to truly understand. And so to really understand what's going on in the Middle East or what's going on inside of a company like Facebook requires more than a five-paragraph journal article. It requires some hours of conversation and dialogue. And I think, by the way, the craving for that depth, which delivers truth and understanding, is what, you know, podcasts can provide, and Clubhouse is providing long form content-

Jason Calacanis 24:41 Hmm.

Draymond Green 24:41 ... that allows you to go into the-

Jason Calacanis 24:43 100%.

David Friedberg 24:43 ... nuance and into the texture and into the depth of what's going on in the world, as opposed to having the five paragraph, littered with ads, BuzzFeed article that says something sensational, but it simplifies something to the point that it's often wrong or completely misses the real depth of what's going on. And, you know, it's like... A- and I think that... I- I think they're both, they're both, they're both kind of playing into each other.

Jason Calacanis 25:03 And it's actually-

David Friedberg 25:03 Yeah.

Jason Calacanis 25:03 ... and then I want to give a prediction.

Chamath Palihapitiya 25:04 The- the- the- they're both... What, what you're describing are both issues, and I think they're related in the following sense, that if you were to go to, like, any of these reporters, like the people that... J-Cal mentioned a couple of names, okay? If you were to filter their bylines and see all of their s- not, not one story, but look at, like, all of the headlines for all their stories over, say, the past year, you will definitely see a trend. They will all-

Jason Calacanis 25:26 Of course.

Chamath Palihapitiya 25:27 ... they will all have, you know, like-

Jason Calacanis 25:29 Negatives.

Chamath Palihapitiya 25:30 ... for c- for certain reporters, it'll be 100% negative about tech, 0% positive.

Jason Calacanis 25:34 Yeah. I mean, Erin Griffin, I think, is the reporter on... who's one of the top tech reporters at the New York Times. It's just like, "Coinbase, Coinbase, away."

Chamath Palihapitiya 25:41 Yeah, exactly. So when's the last time they wrote a positive story? So there is this huge agenda there, and, um, and I think it prevents people from getting into the complexity, 'cause it's a lot easier to write, you know-

Jason Calacanis 25:52 Here's the prediction.

Chamath Palihapitiya 25:53 ... that, that-

Jason Calacanis 25:53 And I'm gonna make a bold prediction here. The media companies are gonna... You know, they're obviously picking a side. They obviously went subscription. Now, they're dealing with Substack, Clubhouse, podcasts, all chipping away. I think what's gonna happen is, you're gonna see media brands built around certain podcasts, and they're gonna work subject first. In other words, the subject of the story are, are gonna create media property. So if you look at what we've done with All In, and obviously, I have This Week in Startups, if we did the Friedberg on Science podcast, and it was just Friedberg explaining a science topic, and then we did Chamath on public markets, and then we did Sax on, you know, alt-right conspiracy theories, and we just had-

David Friedberg 26:32 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 26:32 ... five pods down.

David Friedberg 26:34 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 26:34 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 26:34 Or it could be something else. I don't know, guns.

David Friedberg 26:37 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 26:37 You know, whatever. I don't know.

David Friedberg 26:40 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 26:41 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 26:41 Pro-life. I don't know what Sax is into, but, you know. But I... No, Sax could do something on SaaS. So Sax on SaaS, Friedberg on Science, Chamath on thirst traps.

David Friedberg 26:51 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 26:52 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 26:52 This Week in Startups.

Chamath Palihapitiya 26:52 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 26:52 Then we have All In.

David Friedberg 26:54 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 26:54 That's five, five full pods of an hour and a half each. If each of you did your own pod, and I had my pod, and we made the All In network, the All In news network, I guarantee you we would be, within five years, you know, right up there with CNN and MS- MSNBC.

David Friedberg 27:09 Well, one thing that Jason and I've been toying with now-

Jason Calacanis 27:11 Hands down.

David Friedberg 27:11 ... is, um, I really do wanna start, um, a Twitch channel. And I think part of why is I'd like to really actually have more conversations about, you know, companies and stocks and, you know-

Jason Calacanis 27:25 With youths, with the youths.

David Friedberg 27:26 ... yeah, with the youths and, like, you know, really get into the details. And, like, also, when we, you know, partner with a company, bring them on the show so that we can spend an hour or two and talk about things in detail, it's totally lost. And, and the crazy thing that I realized for me is t- you know, to your point, Jason, like, you know, we have enough distribution now where, where millions of people can see it. And if that has real impact, because, you know, you, you can allow people to judge. And I'm not necessarily saying we're better or worse than anybody else, but if we're not using it f- for, uh, the per- the expressed purpose of selling ads necessarily and getting paid, I do think there's a better likelihood that it's... that the outcome is better.

Jason Calacanis 28:05 Well, I mean, a big part of the success of this has been the banning of guests and the banning of-

David Friedberg 28:09 B- banning of ads.

Jason Calacanis 28:10 ... and banning of ads. People really have responded to that. And I think if we put the Twitch channel up, and we just throw in All In, throw in This Week in Startups, and then, you know, a, a Sax, you know, point/counterpoint show, and I- I'm being sincere, Friedberg, just Friedberg on Science. And, you know, that's five shows, and we just say, "Every Friday, there's gonna be five shows, like, this is your weekend, and we're gonna loop it, and there'll be a Q&A," I guarantee you we could get five other besties to do shows. You know? And, and we would-

David Friedberg 28:38 ... didn't he... Isn't this what... Isn't it... Didn't you guys originally, like... So for the audience, um, that, that doesn't know this, originally the All In podcast was, uh, Chamath and Jason.

Jason Calacanis 28:48 Yes.

David Friedberg 28:48 They were talking about doing a show together. Um, and then COVID hit, and they... Uh, I think you guys asked me on the, the PodZero to talk about COVID stuff. Um, but what was the original goal you guys had? You know, Chamath, did... Isn't that what you wanted to do originally, was to have kind of a direct audience and a direct conversation about, you know, whatever it is you wanted to talk about, where you could have this kind of long-form dialogue? Um, you know, what, what did you guys... Why did you guys want, want to do it in the first place? I mean, wasn't that kind of the idea? I'll tell you what, what sort of, like, my general viewpoint is, which is that, um, like, we are atomizing our affinity. So, I think that, like, we've gone from believing in institutions, and now I, I think we fundamentally mistrust institutions. Then we spent 30 or 40 years believing in companies, and now I think we basically don't believe in companies anymore. And now we're sort of at the... at the l- at the bleeding edge of what... where belief and trust exist, which is at an individual person level. So-

Jason Calacanis 29:46 Ownership, accountability.

David Friedberg 29:48 Ownership. So, so like, you know, I, I... And I think that when an individual has the potential to not just be about something for themselves, but also for themes that other people care about, that's when you get real heat. And obviously, the most impressive example of that is Elon, because, you know, E represents exploration, engineering, science, climate change, you know, uh-

Jason Calacanis 30:10 Memes.

David Friedberg 30:11 ... all, all of this stuff.

Chamath Palihapitiya 30:13 (laughs)

David Friedberg 30:13 Um, not memes.

Jason Calacanis 30:14 Not really.

David Friedberg 30:15 Not really. Uh, I... These other things-

Jason Calacanis 30:16 (laughs) I'm joking.

David Friedberg 30:16 ... are really what matters.

Jason Calacanis 30:17 No, of course.

David Friedberg 30:18 Um, and so, and so what it shows people is, like, I just wanna find affinity around a few key people. And what he is, is not the end state. He's the beginning of the beginning, right?

Jason Calacanis 30:28 Mm-hmm.

David Friedberg 30:28 So what's gonna happen is all of us will say, "I don't trust institutions, so whatever they put out is just gonna be corpo. I don't trust companies. What they say is going to be corpo."

Jason Calacanis 30:39 Yeah.

David Friedberg 30:39 "I'm gonna take my best shot at finding folks that I think are real."

Jason Calacanis 30:43 Yep.

David Friedberg 30:44 "Um, and I'm just gonna get b-" That- that's the thing... That's why I wanted to do this-

Jason Calacanis 30:48 100%.

David Friedberg 30:48 ... with Jason.

Jason Calacanis 30:49 Yeah.

David Friedberg 30:49 And then with the four of us, I think what happened almost accidentally...... is it's like a real plurality of views. And, um, and you don't have to agree with all of us and, frankly, no- no- nobody does, and we don't generally agree 100%, but I think that's what's happening. So I think we're another s- much smaller than Elon, but a s- another example of you're gonna wanna find your own truth tellers, you know, folks that you will get behind. And in ... And I think that, you know, business people, that's where they're gonna emerge because if you look at that first generation of Star-

Draymond Green 31:23 Right.

David Friedberg 31:23 ... like Kim Kardashian, the Kanye West of the world, that's arcing, you know. Then people went to, like, the MrBeasts and that's still building.

Draymond Green 31:31 Yeah.

David Friedberg 31:31 So you have the business celebrity building, you have sort of next generation celebrity building, and I think that's where it's going, right?

Draymond Green 31:37 And, And so let me just ask you guys one question because, you know, I think the, the intention with, with journalists was kind of to be arbiters of the truth or discoverers of fact and to, to deliver that fact, um, uh, to their audience. And when you have this direct relationship between the source and the audience as you do through social media and Twitter and whatnot, um, there, there isn't an arbiter. There isn't a third party. And everything that then is said by the source is taken at face value. How does that play out in a world where, you know, Trump may say things like, "Hey, there's election fraud," um, when the facts don't line up and now you have this ability to not have an arbiter and these people, anyone that now has a direct relationship with a large audience can say anything they want and kind of drive l- large change without those things necessarily being rooted in some, you know, relative kind of objective, um, sense, so-

David Friedberg 32:30 Sacks?

Draymond Green 32:31 Well, I mean, I think it's a marketplace of ideas and everybody's competing and the, the answer to bad speech or bad ideas is more speech and better ideas and-

David Friedberg 32:39 Yep.

Draymond Green 32:40 Um, I mean that's the reality is it is very frustrating to see, you know, people propagating things that aren't true. However, none of us has a monopoly on the truth. We can't say for sure what it is and so we arrive at the truth through sort of a free marketplace of ideas um. There is no better solution than that you know there is no magical way to entrust a small elite of people with you know the right to censor um and tell us what the truth is without essentially you know creating a worse situation and um you know that that's the fundamental problem so yeah look we're we're we're gonna we're we're going to this era in which um there there is no um you know if you go back like 50 years ago you had walter cronkite saying and that's the way it is and everyone believed him and then the new york times was the paper of record and people believed that's fit to print right exactly and so but that's been steadily eroding for decades and now the internet is the final erosion of that and um and look i think it's not an ulti it's not a bad thing because in order for journalism to work you need all the journalists to buy into a certain code of journalistic behavior and ethics which is all about objectivity and the press doesn't buy into that anymore they don't believe in objectivity anymore no and especially i'll tell you something sax young writers i found when we were trying to hire young writers for insight as an example they all wanted to write anti-trump you know pro-woke whatever they had some acts to grind and i said you know you should really write for an opinion page but you haven't done any journalism yet so you should probably do journalism for 10 years and then the second decade you earn the right to be on the opinion page let's put in some reps do 10 years of this and you know it just never uh

Draymond Green 34:28 actually wait do you guys hear something have you guys seen that movie from dusk till dawn and there's that moment where the movie just suddenly the scene changes and everything's different what's that oh does somebody have to oh what's going on that's the reason line wait what somebody's calling the bestie phone did you give the bestie phone number to somebody chamomile oh my god is somebody wait what's going on who's there you up you up you what's going on okay let's see is anybody there hello hello whoa draymond green in the house what's up bestie guesty bestie what's going on what's up where are you are you in a are you in a uh coronavirus covid quarantine somewhere in an nba bubble where are you i am i'm in i'm in dallas stuck in the hotel with bad water pressure oh the worst that honestly that is the thing if you had to give me the most luxurious hotel in the world but with a tap a faucet for water pressure no thanks i would rather sleep i would rather sleep in a box with a grate with a great shower the water pressure is everything everything all right on the call obviously drafted by the golden state warriors in the second round 35th overall in the 2020 nba draft three-time nba champion 2016-17 defensive player of the year two-time nba all-star five-time all defense uh and drafted behind michael kidd gilchrist dionne warriors harrison barnes tyler zeller miles plumby and i don't know how many people got drafted ahead of you draymond but i know that you can repeat them in order is there anybody who's drafted ahead of you who has achieved even a fraction of what you've achieved in the nba draymond there's 34 guys drafted ahead of me and i definitely can still name all of them and saying that i think there are a few um anthony davis he's done okay he got one ring damian lillard no rings but a stud though he's very good player but no rings i'm just saying and bradley bill brad beale okay also no rings yeah so rings i got all the guys in the rings category but then i don't have patrick mccall in the wings category patrick mccaw has the same amount of range as me so who you know so

Jason Calacanis 36:57 (laughs) Oh.

Draymond Green 37:00 Respect to those guys I named-

Jason Calacanis 37:01 We respect, we respect.

Draymond Green 37:01 ... although they don't have the rings, I got major respect for those guys. (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 37:05 We were thinking about what to talk to you about, uh, coming on the pod, and we have a series of questions just about being an NBA player, and what you've learned and how good you've become. I just... I'll start it off with one question, which is, it seems like every year you get a little better at something. How do you do that? Do you, like, say, "Over the summer I'm just going to be better at my screens, I'm going to be better at X, Y or Z," or do you just try to get incrementally better all year long?

Draymond Green 37:33 I mean, you always want to try to get better all year long, but the reality is, with this season, with the way... not just this season in particular, an NBA season in general, you don't have much time to get better. So you're kind of just getting better on the fly. And when, when you're in your workouts during the season, you're just trying to maintain because there's such little prep time. But during the off season you really lock in on a couple of things and try to get better at those things. And, you know, I think I've become a much better ball handler. I think I see the floor much better. I think I've gotten better overall as a player. Um, the one area that I've wanted to see more growth in is my shooting. And, you know, when I'm shooting a basketball on my own, I know for sure I've gotten better at shooting. Um, like, you know, you come in the gym with me, I shoot the lights out every time.

Jason Calacanis 38:21 Yeah.

Draymond Green 38:21 Uh, but it's, it's about getting over that mental block in the game, you know? I think that's the thing people don't realize is, you know, I shot the lights out for years in a row, and, you know, I had a year where I think I shot 39% from three. But then you go through the struggle, and once you lose it mentally-

Jason Calacanis 38:40 Uh-huh.

Draymond Green 38:40 ... it's hard to get it back. And so-

Jason Calacanis 38:42 Yeah.

Draymond Green 38:42 ... I'm fighting that challenge now.

Jason Calacanis 38:43 Yeah.

Draymond Green 38:43 Although I know I can make the shot, it's when you get in the game, mentally, you got to get over that hurdle.

Jason Calacanis 38:49 What, what do you do? You do, like, meditation or do you have, like, a coach who does, like, positive visualizations or something like that? Or is it just reps and working through a shooting slump?

Draymond Green 39:00 I've definitely incorporated some meditation on the Calm app.

Jason Calacanis 39:03 Thank you.

Draymond Green 39:04 Shout out-

Jason Calacanis 39:05 Oh, Jesus Christ.

Draymond Green 39:06 ... shout out to J-CAL.

Jason Calacanis 39:06 Hang on. Do you, uh, did you give him options?

Draymond Green 39:09 You moron.

Jason Calacanis 39:09 Raymond, you have to disclose-

Draymond Green 39:10 If you script that shit-

Jason Calacanis 39:12 Oh my God.

Draymond Green 39:12 On the only podcast you have to disclose if you have options.

Jason Calacanis 39:14 Oh, wow.

David Friedberg 39:14 Shipping the shares right now.

Draymond Green 39:16 If you want Point Your Beak and comment.

David Friedberg 39:17 Sharing these shirts.

Jason Calacanis 39:18 Uh, you don't have any shares yet.

Draymond Green 39:19 Okay, good.

Jason Calacanis 39:20 No shares yet.

Draymond Green 39:21 Hey, Raymond-

Jason Calacanis 39:22 Let's go.

Draymond Green 39:22 ... are, are, are other players in the NBA struggling right now? I mean, with, like, COVID over the last year and the shutdown and the fits and starts and everything, I mean, is it kind of tough to get in the game mentally for folks, and is it-

39:31 It's brutal.

39:32 Yeah.

39:32 It's brutal. Um, I... you know, you talk to guys around the league, um, there's even some guys, and I won't throw anybody under the bus, but... and I'm talking about one super star in particular who I've never seen him out of shape, and he's so out of shape right now-

39:49 (laughs)

39:49 ... and everybody keeps saying-

39:49 (laughs) Wait. No comment. No comment.

39:53 James Harden-

39:54 Yeah. Well, it's, it's not Luke or James Harden.

39:56 Uh-huh.

39:56 But I've never seen this guy out of shape, um, and he's out of shape right now, and I asked him what he was planning, and he was like, "Man, the bubble," like, "oh, it's just been hard." And I completely understand that, I mean-

40:09 Those mates.

40:10 It's, it's brutal.

40:11 That's true.

40:11 And this season currently, you know, I don't want to sound like, um, just this over-privileged guy who's complaining about, uh, being able to make a living, because there's so many people who's lost their jobs, and, and I don't take, you know, uh, being able to go to work for granted at all. But this season has been extremely tough. You know, whereas an NBA day normally is, like, maybe four to six hours, like, every day right now is, like, 10 to 12 hours.

40:40 Wow.

40:40 And, you know, it's COVID testing, you... For our 11:00 AM practice, we have to be at the facility at 8:45 AM.

40:49 Oh, wow.

Jason Calacanis 40:49 Oh, wow.

Draymond Green 40:49 And, and then you have to be back at the facility to test no later than five... betw- in between 4:00 and 5:00 PM.

40:58 Mm-hmm.

40:59 And so you, you kind of have these long, drawn-out days, and about maybe two hours of that is actual work time, you know? And then you're just trying to do some recovery things to kill time. You can't leave the hotel. You know, for myself, one thing that I've always found in the NBA season is it's a ton of pressure, obviously, and it's very, very demanding, like, you can't really do much else. As you guys know, I'm always trying to coordinate with y'all about playing poker around the schedu- You can't really do anything else. But one place that I've found is normally I'll take, like, a day trip to Aspen, you know, or, or do different things like that, a day trip to LA. To kind of clear your mind and get a release, you don't have those releases now. You can't take a day trip.

41:44 Yeah.

41:44 You can't get away. Even on off days, you have to go to the facility and test. And so even just seeing that facility that day, although you may not even go in to work out, but you drive into that facility every day, mentally it's exhausting. And so it's been a very tough season, to say the least, and I think a lot of guys are struggling with it. And saying that, you know, we all want to continue to earn our living-

42:07 Must be-

42:08 ... so we just want to-

42:08 It must be better to be-

42:08 ... do what you have to do.

42:09 Must be better to be playing versus being stuck at home with, with, uh, the league shut down, right? I mean, it's got to be better.

42:15 For sure.

42:16 Yeah.

42:16 I mean, it's better for all of us. Obviously, uh, you know, from an economical standpoint, we all want to continue to make money, uh, you know, and, and provide for our families. We all want to continue to take this league to new heights. So it's always better, uh, for us to be on the court than off. And... But that comes with certain challenges, and you just got to deal with those challenges and-

42:36 J-D try to continue to press forward.

David Friedberg 42:38 J-D, before you came on, we were talking about the media, and we were talking about how all these industries used to rely on the media to tell their story, and now all these industries are finding ways to go around them, and it's even happening in venture capital, right? Um, in the business of sports, I found this thing that, that I thought was really interesting. Um, Ronaldo signed a one billion dollar lifetime contract, right? I think this is, like, two or three years insane.But then it turned out that in one year, he generated 474 million dollars of value for Nike just through social media, because of the number of followers he had, which I think is just absolutely nuts. Um, what do you think about the media? What do you think about your ability to tell your version of the facts through the media?

Draymond Green 43:30 I think, um, we've definitely grown in that area, as you said, f- in, you know, in all, uh, businesses, whether it's basketball, whether it's venture. You know, just all over the board, everyone has grown in that area and kind of start taking the bull by the horns and try to tell their own narrative. Um, e- you know, if you want me to be quite frank with you, I hate the media. And I've even... (laughs)

David Friedberg 43:53 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 43:56 (laughs) Yeah.

Draymond Green 43:56 (laughs) So does Saxton. (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 43:56 (laughs)

David Friedberg 43:56 (laughs)

Draymond Green 43:56 And saying that, I could possibly be a part of that group one day. Uh, but I hate the media, and the reason I hate the media is I don't hate particular people, you know, I have relationships with a ton of people in media, great people. I hate what media entails in today's day and age.

David Friedberg 44:14 Yeah.

Draymond Green 44:15 You know, it's all about, um, who can stir up the most commotion, what happened with this guy, uh, what happened with that guy. Um, it's less about, man, this guy is struggling on the floor and more about James Harden was in a club.

David Friedberg 44:29 Yeah.

Draymond Green 44:29 You know? So how much controversy can we stir up about James Harden being in a club? As opposed to, if we really wanted to talk bad about James Harden when he was on the Houston Rockets, he was bumming it.

David Friedberg 44:41 Yeah.

Draymond Green 44:41 Now, we all know James Harden isn't a bum player, but he was completely dogging it with the Houston Rockets. He's completely turned it up and turned back into James Harden as he's gotten to the Nets. But you can easily, if you want to nitpick at James Harden, talk about James Harden not playing well. But in turn, we're going to talk about James Harden being in a club at night, and he was at little baby's birthday party, and although, you know, I, I disagree with some of the things he was doing, why is that all that, that (...)

Chamath Palihapitiya 45:09 Right.

David Friedberg 45:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Draymond Green 45:09 (...he always does.)

Chamath Palihapitiya 45:10 It's all about, it's all about-

David Friedberg 45:11 Clicks.

Chamath Palihapitiya 45:11 ... clicks and, and, and selling ad dollars against that. We were just talking about that before you got on, Draymond.

David Friedberg 45:15 Look at, look at what happened to Kyrie. In, in the span of literally a week, Kyrie had both sides of the same coin. One was he violates the shelter-in-place or whatever and was like at a birthday party with his family, and then he gets suspended. And on the other side, Kyrie had bought a house for George Floyd's family.

Draymond Green 45:32 Yes.

David Friedberg 45:33 And so it's like both are true, but you have to go through these two news cycles where first he's just a piece of shit, and then he's this amazing philanthropist. What's the point?

Chamath Palihapitiya 45:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Draymond Green 45:43 I, I, I, I agree. I don't under- I don't get the point. Like, and like, like Freebird just said, it's, it's all about clicks.

David Friedberg 45:52 Yeah.

Draymond Green 45:52 And I think that's short-lived. You know, at, at some point everyone's going to get tired of your clickbait. And so yes, it may drive you revenue right now. It may, um, you know, bring more subscribers right now, but in the long term, people are going to get sick of that. At the end of the day, authenticity always wins out.

Chamath Palihapitiya 46:12 Yeah.

Draymond Green 46:12 When you create great products, when you give everything great to whatever business that you're giving, that's always going to outlive the bullshit.

Chamath Palihapitiya 46:21 Yeah.

Draymond Green 46:21 And so you got... And, and that's why you're starting to see so ma- so much turnover with media people and leaving this job and going to this place and leaving the other place because people get sick of that shit.

Chamath Palihapitiya 46:33 Yeah.

Draymond Green 46:33 And so I feel like all of these guys are driving themselves out. You're constantly... You're killing your relationships with players, you're killing your... A- and when I say players, I'm not just talking about NBA players. You guys are the players in the venture space. We're the players in the, in the basketball space. You're killing your relationships with the players. So eventually you're just going to be stuck there tweeting out bullshit.

Chamath Palihapitiya 46:55 (laughs)

David Friedberg 46:55 (laughs)

Draymond Green 46:55 Making articles that no one will co-sign to and then no one wants to fucking hear you anymore.

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:01 (laughs)

David Friedberg 47:01 (laughs)

Draymond Green 47:01 I don't get it. (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:01 (laughs)

David Friedberg 47:02 Oh boy. Looks like we got our bestie in rotation now.

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:05 Yeah.

David Friedberg 47:05 That's going to get clipped. That's a little rant, a little Draymond rant. (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:10 (laughs)

David Friedberg 47:10 Oh, man.

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:11 Your first bestie rant, uh, Draymond.

Draymond Green 47:13 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:14 We, we've all, we've all had our moments. We've all had our rants (...)

David Friedberg 47:17 Dray- Draymond, have you watched or listened to any of this podcast before?

Draymond Green 47:20 Of course. Are you fucking kidding me?

David Friedberg 47:22 Oh, it is on. (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:23 (laughs)

Draymond Green 47:25 (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:25 I, I have a, I have a question actually. So, so I... Yeah, and I'm not sure if the viewers know because from Jason's introduction that we actually play poker with you.

David Friedberg 47:33 Right.

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:33 Maybe, right?

Draymond Green 47:34 Mm-hmm.

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:34 That's how I got to know you.

Draymond Green 47:36 Mm-hmm.

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:36 And, you know, obviously it's been a real thrill and, uh, 'cause you're a great guy and it's also really interesting to get a window into your world. But I'm curious, like, what do you get out of hanging out with us? Our, you know, these-

David Friedberg 47:47 Yeah. Bunch of nerds. These, these losers- Yeah, bunch of pastiched white nerds. (laughs)

Chamath Palihapitiya 47:51 ... pariahs. Yeah. So I'm... You know, and, uh, and then, you know, maybe use that as a segue to also talk about what you're doing in business these days, 'cause I think that's interesting.

Draymond Green 48:00 What, what I get from hanging out with you guys is, number one, incredible friends. Um, you know, I think that's what's been the most important thing for me is just building friendships that will go far beyond any of you guys doing any deals. It'll go far beyond, um, me doing any deals or me playing basketball. And that's the thing that I cherish the most. Um, you know, obviously it started with Bestie C bringing me into the poker game and introducing me to everyone, and then all of you guys welcoming me with open arms. And, you know, I always say in the groups, in our group chats, uh, anytime that there's a debate going on, I make sure to throw my disclaimer out there. Hey-

Chamath Palihapitiya 48:40 (laughs)

Draymond Green 48:40 ... I can't talk anything but you guys... I know everyone can talk circles around me, but this is how I feel on said topic. And-

David Friedberg 48:49 Hey, tell, tell, tell us about the, tell us about the temperature in America.

Draymond Green 48:55 The temperature in America? Uh, it's fucked up. And, and I think, you know, where we are today as a country, um, it's no different than where we were 30 years ago, 40 years ago.We just live in a day and age of social media where we can see everything. And so, the same battle cry that Dr. King was crying, uh, s- 50 years ago is still currently going on today. It's the same exact thing, uh, or 60 years ago. It's the same exact things that's, that's taking place today.

Narrator 49:29 Mm-hmm.

Draymond Green 49:29 And our country is one ... In, in one of the most fucked up spaces it's ever been in. And in saying that, it's in just about the same place that it's always been in.

Narrator 49:39 Yeah.

Draymond Green 49:39 And so, you know, we've sugar-coated shit for so long that it seems now like, "Oh, police killings are at an all-time high of shooting unarmed people. Um, you know, racism is at an all-time high." It's not at an all-time high. It's the same that it's been.

Narrator 49:57 Yeah.

Draymond Green 49:57 It's just on the ... It's, it's being pushed to the forefront now-

Narrator 50:01 Yeah.

Draymond Green 50:01 ... as opposed to it being on the back-burner before.

Narrator 50:04 Mm-hmm.

Draymond Green 50:04 And so, um, that's, that's just kind of where we are as a country. Um, you know that's 100% the best case.

50:11 Do you think things are, do you think things are gonna ... Uh, do you think sentiment's gonna shift, Draymond? I mean, you know, the protests that happened in this country over the last year obviously happened during COVID and, um, and I think it magnified them, uh, a lot more, uh, than, you know, similar protests that have taken place historically, but, you know, are we seeing, like, sentiment shift in the United States in terms of policy and people's behaviors and, and attitudes right now?

50:34 Uh, I think some people behavior, but I, I don't think anything is going to shift.

50:39 Okay.

50:40 Um, in part- and partly because we live in a fake-ass world where no one can say anything. You say anything, you get castrated for it, you're ... I, I think, um, you know, in, in telling your truth which in order to create the change that we need in America, people have to be able to speak the truth.

Narrator 51:01 Yeah.

Draymond Green 51:01 And if you can't speak the truth without getting fucking destroyed and a part of the bullshit cancel culture that we all have to deal with, then how can you ever create change through a lie?

Narrator 51:12 Right. Yeah.

Draymond Green 51:13 Lie- lies are, is what we've been facing for hundreds of years, but yet, when you get in front of a microphone, you have to be very conscious of what you say because it may piss this group of people off, or it may piss that group of people off, and then you're never allowed to tell the fucking truth. So-

Narrator 51:30 Right.

Draymond Green 51:30 ... how will we ever move forward as a country if no one can tell the truth and you only get canceled?

Narrator 51:35 Yeah.

Draymond Green 51:36 So you cancel who tells the truth and we fucking push forwards all the lies, we'll never move anywhere as a country. So I don't think we're going anywhere.

Jason Calacanis 51:44 Seems like in the NBA, we went from the players saying, "Listen, I don't want to touch that." Michael Jordan was very clear in The Last Dance, like, "You know, I'm, I'm a ... I'm an athlete. I don't want to talk about politics. I don't want to lose half the audience." And then you had, you know, Melo, um, and, uh, you know, LeBron and a bunch of folks see ... Uh, Chris Paul, I guess, was in that group, too. Dwyane Wade. When they came out and said, "Hey, listen, we got to talk about this and we got to talk about race in America." And then that culminated with the Black Lives Matter, um, branding of everything in the bubble and that kind of historic moment. What's the ... What's ... What was the vibe inside of the NBA when the players said, "Listen, this is important to us. If we're going to get back on the court, we need to make this front and center. This is our priority." And then you ... Let's face it, you got a lot of owners in the league maybe who are old white guys, maybe they don't want to bring this kind of heat, they don't want this kind of debate. They want to just play ball, shut up and dribble, all this nonsense. What was that moment like when you guys said, "No, this is what we have to do if we're going to get back on the court"?

Draymond Green 52:51 Uh, I think, I think guys have just had enough and more, most importantly, I think m- um, now more than ever, guys truly understand the power of the athlete, you know, and the, and the voice of the Black man.

53:03 Exactly. Closing the loop on what we just said. You, you ... We control the narrative. You control the narrative. The players-

53:09 Absolutely. And, and so we're, we're just kind of in a space where we understand this ship don't sail without us, and the things that matter to us has to matter to the league. No.

53:21 Right.

53:21 And saying that, I think, uh, we have a commissioner that supports everything we stand for. And when you have a commissioner like Adam Silver, who is c- in full support of everything that the players stand for, is never trying to fight us, is never trying to put a muzzle on us and tell us not to stand up for what we believe in, that, that's a very powerful thing, and that's why the NBA is the most powerful sports league in the world. Because we have a commissioner who's on board and who not only supports what the players think and what we believe in, but he takes it even a step further, you know?

53:58 Yeah.

53:58 And, and you don't see that. You, you see the NFL tell guys, "You have to stay," you know? Or, or stay in the locker room. Adam Silver don't do us ... Uh, don't do that to us.

54:09 What- Yeah.

54:10 And that's why there's always friction between their commissioner and their players.

54:14 David, what did you think about the Storm the Capitol when you were watching that? What was going through your mind?

54:20 We, we see the two different sides of America. The first thing that went through my mind was, I wonder if that was a Black Lives Matter protest, uh, or, or Black Lives Matter protesters stormed in the Capitol, how much of a bloodbath it would have been. It would have been one of the biggest bloodbaths in, in American history.

54:40 100%.

54:40 You know? And, uh ... And, and so immediately when I saw it, the first thing I thought of was like, "Wow, how, how is this even happening?" Like ... And let alone it, it not happening, no one ... And, and by the way, I don't wish death on anyone, but-

54:59 I, yeah.

55:00 ... I know that if those were melanated people who were storming into the Capitol building, it would have been bloodshed everywhere.

55:09 They would unload it. Facts.

55:10 Absolutely. And so it just kind of, um-... really, once again, just revealed how there's two sides of America. And, as I said before, until we tell the truth about it, we'll still. w- we'll continue to live in a day and age where there'll be two sides of America.

55:26 Draymond, when, when COVID first started and we went into lockdown and we were all texting with each other talking about like how crazy the world had become, one of the things that stuck with me, and still sticks with me, is the comments you made over our text chain about how it feels like you felt growing up. Can you just explain what you meant by that and, like, just share that with our audience that's listening? Because it was such a striking comment. We were all like, "Oh my gosh," like, "I can't go outside. I can't, like, go to the store." Like, "This, this world is crazy." And you were like, "This is what it was like grow-" and it was just such a striking... Maybe you could just share a little bit about what you meant by that. 'Cause I think it paints a little bit of a picture, uh, you know, for folks to understand a little bit about, you know, kind of, you know, what America can be like and what it's like growing up in, in, in parts of the US.

56:11 Well, number one, I, I want to point out that I told all of y'all the first day we went into lockdown, we all should go to Cabo and no one listened to me.

Jason Calacanis 56:19 (laughs)

Draymond Green 56:20 It was a good call.

56:21 So-

David Friedberg 56:21 It was a good call. You were right.

Draymond Green 56:23 (laughs)

56:23 We should all go where? To Cabo? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

56:26 (laughs) No, but, um, when, when I said that in the group chat, uh, what I said, what I said in the group chat was, honestly, I was in my condo in San Francisco. I live in a high, high-rise. Great view of the Bay Bridge, great view of the water. You see all of San Francisco, South San Fr- everywhere. And, and I said to the group chat after a few weeks of lockdown, I said, "This, you know, guys, I have to be quite frank with you. This feels no different than me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan."

David Friedberg 56:57 Yeah.

Draymond Green 56:57 Uh, and, and what I mean by that, I said, "This feels no different than me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. The only difference is I know where my next, I know where my next meal is coming from."

David Friedberg 57:07 Yeah.

Draymond Green 57:07 You know, and I'm am- I'm in a much better place, living space, than I was. But this feels no different, where I'm locked in, I can't go anywhere. That was me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan, locked in, couldn't go anywhere, didn't know that there was a world that existed outside of Saginaw, Michigan and basketball was able to take me different places. But I, I didn't know anything existed and nothing seemed accessible to a young Black kid growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. So once I was, once I was then locked in the house, along with everyone else in the world, it just took me back to a space of, "Wow, nothing else is, is ac- is accessible to me." This was exactly what it was when I was growing up as a 10-year-old, n- w- like, nothing was accessible to us. We didn't have anything.

57:54 Yeah.

57:54 That's how... And so, when we went into lockdown, like, I felt right at home. I felt like the kid growing up in Saginaw again. Nothing was accessible to me.

58:05 But it's such a poignant point, Draymond, 'cause so many people don't h- y- you know, people don't have that experience. But hearing you say that, it provides perspective that there are people living that today. Um, and it's not just about a COVID lockdown, but it's about a different world, um, that we don't get to see. So I really appreciated you sharing that. I, I... It honestly was very poignant and, and kind of struck a nerve with me when you said it.

58:29 Absolutely. I think, you know, and one, one thing I, another thing I said in the chat, and I am included, we, we all got, got a chance to see what it felt like to be those people.

58:40 Yeah.

58:40 You know, obviously-

58:41 Right.

58:41 ... I lived that life growing up. But once you're removed from it, you're removed from it, right?

58:45 Yeah.

58:45 Like, I, you know, you try not to never forget, but let's, let's be frank, you know, Shamak, Shamak, you, you grew up with nothing. Uh, coming from India and, or Sri Lanka and going to Canada, you had nothing, you understand. And, you know, we all understand from a different perspective. But there are still people currently that live, that live that life today.

59:06 Can I tell you-

59:06 And you gave all of us a glimpse of what those people go through on a daily basis.

David Friedberg 59:11 The one, the one thing about this pandemic is that I've had these moments, Dey, where like I actually now am a little bit more connected to my past. I did this, um, I did this podcast with this guy Patrick O'Shaughnessy, and he ends every podcast and he says, you know, uh, "What is the kindest thing that some- somebody has done to you?" And I had pushed this memory down into the fucking recesses of my mind, except in this last year, I've remembered all these kindnesses because I've, I've now, I've, I've... These are the moments where I felt the most insecure. And I, and I told the story about this kid who, you know, when I was like 11 or 12, he was eight, so he was in my sister's class. And their family gave us a mattress, two mattresses, and some clothes, you know, some plates and like a frying pan and a pot, literally, when we got refugee status. And when I said it on the thing, I started bawling, and then I kind of collected myself. And then-

Jason Calacanis 1:00:10 I'm getting a little verklempt even hearing you talk about it-

David Friedberg 1:00:13 Well-

Jason Calacanis 1:00:13 ... man.

David Friedberg 1:00:13 Well, and the next, the next morning, uh, Nat said, "How did it go?" And I told her, and I exploded and I was crying and crying and crying and crying. And to your point, like, it is so easy to forget where you come from, but it's also easy to forget that there's an, a simple fucking externality. In this case, it's a, it's a virus you can't see that gets tran- and it makes us all the same-

Jason Calacanis 1:00:39 Oh.

David Friedberg 1:00:39 ... in one fell soup, in one nanosecond.

Narrator 1:00:42 Oh.

David Friedberg 1:00:42 And if that doesn't make you sort of like empathetic to everybody, not- nothing will. But that's one silver lining in this whole fucking debacle, is it's an opportunity for s- for, for a lot of folks to reconnect with their own self, you know, and be a better person.

Draymond Green 1:00:58 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jason Calacanis 1:00:59 Uh, did, did something you, you paused on, Draymond, during the pandemic when you weren't playing and you guys obviously, uh, with the injuries and everything, didn't- you weren't in the bubble, so you had a lot of time to be with yourself. Did you have any like, during this great pause, uh...... you know, I don't know, revelations about yourself, your career, and, and what you wanna do in the second half of your career? Because let's be honest, I mean, the run that Warriors just had has been transcendent. I mean, you guys have checked off every box. You personally have checked off every box, especially for a guy who was drafted in the second round to be a champion and, like, the way you've developed and the leadership. I mean, everybody in the league knows when you're on the court, that's the team, and you have that leadership, the ability to see the floor and direct the offense, direct the defense. Did you come up with anything where you said, "This is what I want out of the future of my life"? 'Cause we saw you dabble with, you know, TNT and the desk, and you killed it. We, we've seen you mic'd up. We see you coaching now. It seems like there's a 2.0 Draymond, like, maybe a little evolution here of your thinking about maybe the third act and the second half of your NBA career on the court.

Draymond Green 1:02:06 Uh, you know, I had a lot of time to really sit and reflect. Uh, you know, I grew a lot in my personal relationships, which I think was important. Um, you know, and, and I think I also grew, grew a lot as, as a business professional as well.

Jason Calacanis 1:02:22 Mm-hmm.

Draymond Green 1:02:23 Um, in speaking of, uh, you know, the, the TNT stuff, uh, that was, I think, you know, we've kinda always or I've kinda always heard, like, "Man, when you, when you finish playing, you'll have a great career in TV." But the reality is, is, you know, we, we've seen some players, uh, you know, that were really good players get up there and not be very, you know, be very good sitting at the desk or, or, you know, um, color commentating the game. And, and so it's not as easy as most people think it is.

Jason Calacanis 1:03:00 Yep.

Draymond Green 1:03:00 People think just because you play basketball, A, that you know basketball, and then B, that you're gonna help ... You, you're gonna be able to translate or, or help give everyone else an understanding of what exactly it is that you see.

Jason Calacanis 1:03:17 Mm-hmm.

Draymond Green 1:03:18 And, and so getting up there and actually being able to do it and then the reception that I got, which was people ... You know, in m- in my mind I've always said, "I wanna be Tony Romo of the NBA." Tony Romo is one of my favorite people to watch do color commentary, because he makes it very simple for you to understand. He tell you ex- T- and Tony Romo sit there and call the plays out that a team is about to run just by seeing the formation, and they do exactly what he said they're about to do. It's the most incredible thing. And, and speaking of which we were talking about earlier, which was the media, I ... One of the things that piss me off most about the game of basketball today is I can't turn on a sports talk show and actually learn about basketball.

Jason Calacanis 1:04:06 Hmm.

Draymond Green 1:04:06 And that fucking pisses me off. All I can turn on a talk show about is hear about bullshit.

David Friedberg 1:04:11 (laughs)

Draymond Green 1:04:11 But the reality is we have (laughs) we have so many people t- talking and, and-

David Friedberg 1:04:17 (laughs)

Draymond Green 1:04:17 ... and speaking about the game of basketball, they don't know shit.

Jason Calacanis 1:04:21 Right.

Draymond Green 1:04:21 And so y- you can't turn on the TV and learn, and so the one thing ...

David Friedberg 1:04:26 I'll say-

Draymond Green 1:04:26 ... I wanna bring to that world is I want to be able to teach the game of basketball, and then for people to then contact me once I was sitting up there at the desk, uh, in Ins- on Inside NBA and doing all of these different things, to contact me and say, "The way you break the game down makes it so easy to understand." That was a huge win for me, and it gave me a lot of hope to wanna succeed more in that area.

David Friedberg 1:04:50 Well, I, I'll, I'll say something different, um, which is wha- what I see is, like, just a, just an incredibly beautiful human being, because, like, you're able to humanize that but then you can go and speak on these other things. That's actually what we need more of, because all of a sudden now it's very hard to put people in a box, and it shows that we are all multifaceted. It's just that sometimes we don't get the exposure, meaning, like, I would say I have different facets of my personality because we've been friends for so long, and that's a gift you gave to me. You just said being in that group chat with us, which can be a cacophonous fucking mess sometimes. (laughs)

Draymond Green 1:05:31 That group chat sh- ... That group chat can never get out of the wild.

David Sacks 1:05:34 Never, never, never to be published. Never to be published.

David Friedberg 1:05:35 Never to be published, that group chat. (laughs)

David Sacks 1:05:38 Never to be published. ?

Narrator 1:05:39 (laughs)

David Friedberg 1:05:39 But, but the point is, like, and this is goes back to this first thing, like, we can now really, like, be authentic and show all these different facets of ourself. And it's just like, to me, that's what's really important, because then people see that there is more than, you know. Like, like, the, the most, the best rebuttal to, like, that whole shut up and dribble, which was so fucking offensive, is literally for you to be great at basketball, great at broadcasting, great as a-

David Sacks 1:06:04 Business.

David Friedberg 1:06:04 ... you know, social, you know, person who can comment on the social times of our moment, great businessman. And then I'm just gonna put one thing out there right now. Eventually, great fucking politician, because this is ... Like, now you wanna talk about somebody-

David Sacks 1:06:17 There you go.

David Friedberg 1:06:17 No, no, but you wanna talk about somebody who can galvanize interest and is a leader.

David Sacks 1:06:19 There's an open, uh, governor, uh, um, election coming up-

David Friedberg 1:06:23 Yeah. (laughs)

David Sacks 1:06:23 ... Draymond, and someone on, someone on our podcast no longer running, apparently, so yeah. (laughs)

David Friedberg 1:06:26 Guys, guys, I'mma, I am gonna make a prediction-

David Sacks 1:06:29 Yeah.

David Friedberg 1:06:29 ... that our bestie will be the Governor of Michigan or the Governor of California-

Jason Calacanis 1:06:34 Love it.

David Friedberg 1:06:35 ... before, before the time he's 50.

Jason Calacanis 1:06:36 Love it.

David Sacks 1:06:37 There you go.

Draymond Green 1:06:38 Thank you. I, I appreciate that. Maybe, uh, I mean, I- you know, I love the State of Michigan as home, uh, you know, and ... But I, I think California will be home for me for the rest of my life, so possibly California. Yeah.

David Sacks 1:06:50 Great. Great calling you something.

Narrator 1:06:51 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 1:06:51 Hey, Draymond, let me ask you a question.

David Sacks 1:06:53 Yeah.

Jason Calacanis 1:06:53 Uh, you're, uh, you're on Twitter, I understand. You have a Twitter handle. Sometimes you check it out. Did you see Chamath's picture-

David Sacks 1:07:01 Shirtless. (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 1:07:01 ... with his shirt off?

Draymond Green 1:07:02 (laughs)

Jason Calacanis 1:07:03 And did you block-

David Sacks 1:07:04 David, did you see the thirst trap? Did you see it? Tell the truth.

Jason Calacanis 1:07:06 Did you block him after that?

David Sacks 1:07:07 Tell the truth.

Draymond Green 1:07:08 I mean ...

David Sacks 1:07:09 He looked away.

Draymond Green 1:07:10 Uh, if we all know Chamath, I'm sure he probably sent it to the fucking group chat.

1:07:14 Oh, you mother- (laughing)

1:07:16 He sent the outtakes. (laughing)

1:07:18 He wanted everyone to... Wanted all of us to say, "Hey, Chamath, you look fucking great." (laughing) I definitely saw the picture. (laughing)

1:07:26 Actually, I, I, I, I'm the one who posted it to the, to the group chat.

1:07:30 No, that's... Zach posted it to the group chat.

1:07:31 And I, my comment, my comment, my comment was, "Chamath Kardashian?" (laughing) Because you put, you put the camera in front of your face. You were like, you, you, it looked like this. It was like you did this thing, like real quick.

1:07:48 That, that... N- Dede taught me how to do this. He's the creator.

1:07:52 Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, yeah. Stop that. Stop it. That's enough for us all. Okay, guys, listen. We are, we are... We're nearing the end of our podcast. Jason, uh, do you wanna tell Dede what

Draymond Green 1:08:02 we're gonna do? Okay. So, uh, some people have given some reviews or just feedback on the pod, on the Besties, maybe even you, Draymond. And so we thought it would be incredibly uncomfortable, uh, and funny for us to read some of these. So, uh, Sax, why don't you kick us off with one?

1:08:21 The... Well, there's a really good pie chart here, which, um, Nick, Nick can show, which shows all in pod talk time.

1:08:29 (laughs)

1:08:29 And it's basically mostly Chamath and then Jason with, with both Davids filling, like, a tiny little piece. And then-

1:08:37 (laughs) So it's one third... It's too clear.

1:08:38 The majority of it is Chamath and Jason talking over each other for the rest of the pod.

1:08:42 (laughs)

1:08:43 Um, bored Elon Musk posted that, I guess.

1:08:46 Yeah. All right. Well, here's one from Brooklyngal212 on Sax. One-star review. Sax, go ahead and read this one-star review from Brooklyngal212.

1:08:54 Yeah, she says that David Sax ruins every conversation on this pod.

1:08:57 (laughs) Period. You forgot the period.

1:09:01 All right, here's one about Chamath. Hey, Chamath. This is one of my heroes.

1:09:04 Uh, yeah, just want to know what you're up to.

1:09:04 Yeah, Chamath, read this one.

1:09:05 Okay. Uh, it's from Howard Axlerowark, um, with a pill. Okay, with a... Okay, with a, with a pill. It says, "Every time Chamath does something to make me like him, he does two things to make me hate his guts." (laughs) Go fuck yourself.

1:09:21 I think, I think we can all relate to that one.

1:09:24 It sounds like me in my playing career. (laughs) Everyone fucking hates me, man. It's crazy. (laughs)

1:09:33 Draymond, I will tell you, when, when I first, when I first thought about putting a tweet out for, like, the first time, you were the one who said, "Man, everyone's going to talk shit, but forget the haters." Like, that's just the way it goes when you start a social media platform.

1:09:42 Oh, yeah, fuck them.

1:09:43 Yeah. Fuck the haters. All right, here's one for... This is a, a super fan, Aaron, sent this one into the, uh, email. "Jason, at this point, I fully believe you have bought, laminated and framed Kathy Griffin's severed trumpet picture. How many gallons of semen spilled onto it when Biden was inaugurated?" Oh my Lord. Oh, too much.

1:10:02 "If Twitter offered two blue check marks, you'd have three. Your zealotry has made even Bill Maher blush and the other Besties cringe when you can't take even a slight ribbing. It's so bad now, the Besties have started their own side chat without you. At your funeral, the Besties will show up, not out of respect for you, but for your family."

1:10:20 Oh my God. (laughs) Oh my Lord. (laughs)

1:10:24 Signed, Jacklyn Sax.

1:10:26 No comment here, dude. (laughs)

1:10:29 Oh my Lord.

1:10:30 Let's move on.

1:10:30 Okay, David, here's yours. Yours is up, David.

1:10:32 Oh, wait, wait, I need to do this hot take. Hot take, ready?

1:10:35 Hot takes.

1:10:35 The hot take. Hot take. Not deeply researched.

1:10:39 Three stars.

1:10:40 Jason and Chamath make good points, but the other two are such whiny nerds. One of whom is clearly right-wing, wannabe vanilla ISIS. (laughs)

1:10:52 Jesus. Oh my Lord.

1:10:54 So brittle.

1:10:55 Did he just call you a terrorist? (laughs)

1:10:57 Oh my Lord.

1:10:59 I think, uh, I think he's referring to Freebird. That can't be me.

1:11:02 (laughs) Which David?

1:11:03 Definitely not me. Definitely not me.

1:11:05 They both have the same voice. They're trying to be clear.

1:11:07 Oh, here's a... Jason, do you wanna read the next one? This is incredible. Evil Jason.

1:11:09 Evil Jason. Okay, here we go. This is from Adam Keem. He posted this on January 30th, so not long ago. He gives me a full one star, which I think one star is, like, number one, right? Five stars is fifth place, first star is one place. "Jason Calacanis is a muster." (laughs) Monster, not monster.

1:11:25 Wow. Monster, monster. (laughs)

1:11:27 Hot takes. Hot takes. "Wow, after listening to Jason on the latest podcast, I am floored, period. His personal attacks and his complete support of the manipulators in our market should tell you something. This guy is evil."

1:11:38 Uh, whew. Let's move on.

1:11:40 Thanks, Mom.

1:11:41 "David is trash, that is all." (laughs) Which David?

1:11:44 Freebird. Always Freebird.

1:11:46 Yeah, always Freebird. (laughing) Oh yeah, here's, here's one I'll read. "If Metro Mile and or becoming new head of USA Vaccination doesn't work out for David Friedberg, he could still have an amazing career as a Kermit the Frog voice actor." (laughing) Fucker.

1:12:01 Oh, hey, look at this.

1:12:02 Uh, here's a... Here's Marcus Aurelius A13367156 saying to me, "Stop sniffing your own farts." What the fuck does that mean?

1:12:13 (laughs) All right.

1:12:14 It means that you are so enamored with yourself, Chamath, that you think your farts are fragrant.

1:12:20 Oh my God.

1:12:21 All right. (laughs)

1:12:22 Okay, I'm gonna read... I'm gonna read a Draymond Green mean tweet now.

1:12:24 Oh, there you go.

1:12:25 Oh, no.

1:12:26 Draymond Greens shoots like he's sitting down in a chair. Fuck y'all. (laughs)

1:12:33 (laughs)

1:12:34 (laughs) Go my God, read the next one. Read the next one. Oh, man.

1:12:38 Talking about your rebounds or screens.

1:12:40 This is from Sugar Lump Lump.

1:12:43 (laughs)

1:12:43 Sugar with a 'A'.

1:12:44 Sugar Lump Lump?

1:12:46 Sugar Lump Lump. "Draymond Green is so attractive to, to me. I don't know why because he's legally ugly." (laughs)

1:12:53 (laughs) Damn.

1:12:55 Wait a second. Did she neg you? I think she's trying to slide into the DMs and negging you at the same time.

1:12:59 That's a trap. That's a trap. That's a trap.

1:13:00 You know the brutal... By the way, the brutal thing about that... The way... The brutal thing about that-

1:13:03 Let me put on more sugar.

1:13:05 The brutal thing about that is, is Nat, Nat once said to me, she's like, "Man, Draymond Green is really attractive." I said, "What the fuck are you talking about?"

1:13:13 (laughs)

1:13:13 I said, "I am so much better looking than Draymond Green." She's like, "Please."

1:13:17 You'll never get over that, Draymond. He'll still talk about it for years.

1:13:19 I know. I was so tilted.

1:13:19 He'll never get over that.

1:13:20 It's been a year, I'm still tilted.

1:13:22 All right, you're both solid