E63: Insurrection indictments, human rights in the US and abroad, groundbreaking MS study and more

1. 0:00 – 0:39

   Bestie Intro: Friedberg prepares for the insurrection discussion

   1. JCJason Calacanis0:00

      ... cl- (laughs) look at Freeburg. He's like, "This is so awkward. I can't wait." He's got-

   2. DSDavid Sacks0:05

      (laughs)

   3. JCJason Calacanis0:05

      You literally brought popcorn, didn't you?

   4. DSDavid Sacks0:06

      I'm just watching the show.

   5. JCJason Calacanis0:07

      You fucker. You brought popcorn. (laughs) He's like, "I wanna see round three."

   6. DSDavid Sacks0:11

      I have nothing to say today. I'm just gonna sit here and watch.

   7. JCJason Calacanis0:13

      I, I brought popcorn.

   8. DSDavid Sacks0:14

      Got my, uh, chili roasted pistachio nuts. I'm gonna sit back and enjoy-

   9. JCJason Calacanis0:20

      Besties on the town.

   10. DSDavid Sacks0:20

       ... the J-CAL sacks.

   11. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:22

       I'm going all in. Let your winners ride. Rain Man, David Sachs. I'm going all in.

   12. DSDavid Sacks0:31

       NSN.

   13. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:31

       We opened sources to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it.

   14. JCJason Calacanis0:34

       Love you, bestie.

   15. DSDavid Sacks0:35

       Nice.

   16. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:35

       Queen of Quinoa. I'm going all in.

2. 0:39 – 14:45

   Breaking down the Oath Keeper indictments and the riots at the capitol, Biden's plummeting approval rating

   1. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:39

   2. JCJason Calacanis0:39

      Are we really gonna do this as the top story? (laughs) I mean, this is the third time we've tried (laughs) to do this story. Do we give the background sax or no?

   3. DSDavid Sacks0:47

      We wouldn't have had to do it over and over again if you didn't act so hysterical. Here we go.

   4. JCJason Calacanis0:51

      The first one you killed.

   5. DSDavid Sacks0:53

      No, you killed it.

   6. JCJason Calacanis0:54

      No, the first one you killed.

   7. DSDavid Sacks0:55

      Oh, no, the first one... Yeah, because it wasn't even on the docket, and it wasn't, it wasn't even newsworthy.

   8. JCJason Calacanis1:00

      Okay, and the second one I killed.

   9. DSDavid Sacks1:02

      Because you came across like a stark-raving lunatic.

   10. JCJason Calacanis1:05

       I spiked it the second time because I was so infuriated by your cavalier attitude towards it.

   11. DSDavid Sacks1:11

       What are you worried about my attitude for? Why don't you just focus on making your own good points?

   12. JCJason Calacanis1:15

       (laughs)

   13. DSDavid Sacks1:15

       Oh, yes.

   14. JCJason Calacanis1:15

       Here's the thing. I was so correct, I was so correct-

   15. DSDavid Sacks1:21

       Let him, let him go, Chamath. Let him go.

   16. JCJason Calacanis1:23

       ... you guys got popcorn?

   17. DSDavid Sacks1:24

       Let's hear this idiot try to-

   18. JCJason Calacanis1:25

       (laughs)

   19. DSDavid Sacks1:25

       ... blame his own hysteria on me.

   20. JCJason Calacanis1:28

       You said that January 6th was overblown, and of course-

   21. DSDavid Sacks1:32

       No, I said it was a disgrace. I said it was an embarrassment. It was an embarrassment to the country. I said it was wrong. But you wanna inflate it. You're in- you're engaging in, in classic Washington threat inflation.

   22. JCJason Calacanis1:44

       Nope.

   23. DSDavid Sacks1:45

       And, um, and there's two problems with that. One is, you're gonna take your eye off the ball of, of the real issues facing the country, like inflation, the economy, and economic anxiety, like COVID, like crime, like schools. I mean, these are the issues that Americans care about, not, you know, a riot that happened over a year ago. And if you and the Democrats keep talking about this and focus on it on MSNBC to the exclusion of the issues that really matter, uh, I'll see you in November because you're gonna get slaughtered in this midterm election. It's gonna be a landslide. But the other problem with it is, with this threat inflation, is that it justifies the expansion of surveillance powers and prosecutorial powers by the Justice Department, by the, you know, b- by, by the, by the Justice Department and other branches of our government who want to basically go after, you know, this, this so-called domestic terrorism. That will lead to an infringement on civil liberties, just like the expansion of those agencies did after 9/11, and so I think we should all be, like, concerned about it. Now, look, are these Oath Keepers a bunch of idiots? Yeah, there were 11 Oath Keepers at that rally. They broke into the Capitol.

   24. JCJason Calacanis2:52

       Wait a minute, wait a minute. You're saying-

   25. DSDavid Sacks2:52

       The Lord knows they should be prosecuted. Wait a minute, wait a minute. You're saying an old fat guy with an eyepatch-

   26. JCJason Calacanis2:59

       (laughs)

   27. DSDavid Sacks3:00

       (laughs)

   28. JCJason Calacanis3:00

       (laughs)

   29. DSDavid Sacks3:00

       (laughs)

   30. JCJason Calacanis3:00

       ... and a hat that says-
3. 14:45 – 57:36

   Human rights perspectives and challenges: domestic and international

   1. DFDavid Friedberg14:45

   2. JCJason Calacanis14:45

      A- and maybe good for Americans. Like, I mean, h- his China policy, the fact that he came out with a statement on the Uighurs, I thought was very strong. You know, it's one of the stronger things he did, but it's not coming up in the polls. And I think that whole Republicans interested in getting Hillary to run again is a setup.

   3. DFDavid Friedberg14:59

      N- nobody cares about ... No, no, let's be honest. Nobody cares about what's happening to the Uighurs, okay? You, you bring it up 'cause you really care-

   4. JCJason Calacanis15:04

      What?

   5. DFDavid Friedberg15:04

      And I think it's nice that you care.

   6. JCJason Calacanis15:05

      What do you mean nobody cares?

   7. DFDavid Friedberg15:06

      The rest of us don't care. I'm just telling you a very hard-

   8. JCJason Calacanis15:09

      You don't really care? Wait, you're saying you personally don't care?

   9. DFDavid Friedberg15:10

      I'm telling you a very ... I'm telling you a very hard, ugly truth, okay? Of all the things that I care about, yes, it is below my line, okay?

   10. JCJason Calacanis15:16

       And that's, that's-

   11. DFDavid Friedberg15:17

       Of all the things that I care about, it is below my line.

   12. JCJason Calacanis15:20

       Disappointing.

   13. DSDavid Sacks15:20

       Well, we ... I think people, if you, if you explain to them what's happening to the Uighurs in China, they care, but it's not top of mind for them.

   14. DFDavid Friedberg15:26

       That's not scary.

   15. DSDavid Sacks15:27

       What's top of mind right now is they go to the grocery store and, and the shelves are empty.

   16. DFDavid Friedberg15:30

       Sure. That I care about.

   17. DSDavid Sacks15:32

       Yeah.

   18. DFDavid Friedberg15:32

       Yeah. I, I, I care about the fact that our economy could turn on a dime if China invades Taiwan. I care about that. I care about climate change. You know, I care about a bunch of ... I care about America's crippling and, you know, decrepit in- healthcare infrastructure. But if you're asking me do I care about a segment of a class of people in another country? Not until we can take care of ourselves will I prioritize them over us. And I think a lot of people believe that, and I'm sorry if that's a hard truth to hear, but every time I, I say that I care about the Uighurs, I'm really just lying if I don't really care. And so I'd rather not lie to you and tell you the truth. It's not a priority for me.

   19. JCJason Calacanis16:07

       And my response to that is I think it's a sad state of affairs when human rights as a concept globally, you know, falls beneath, you know, tactical and strategic issues that we have to have. We need to have a high watermark-

   20. DFDavid Friedberg16:19

       That's another luxury belief. That's another luxury belief.

   21. JCJason Calacanis16:22

       But I don't believe believing in the, the Human Declaration of Human Rights that Eleanor Roosevelt created with the United Nations-

   22. DFDavid Friedberg16:27

       It's a luxury belief.

   23. JCJason Calacanis16:27

       I don't think it's a luxury belief to believe that all humans should have a basic set of human rights.

   24. DFDavid Friedberg16:30

       I think it's a luxury belief.

   25. JCJason Calacanis16:32

       That is a basic right far from -

   26. DFDavid Friedberg16:32

       And the reason I think it's a luxury belief is we don't do enough domestically to actually express that view in real tangible ways, so until we actually clean up our own house, the idea that we step outside of our borders with, you know, with, with us sort of like morally virtue signaling about somebody else's human rights track record is deplorable. Look at the number of Black and brown men that are inc-

   27. JCJason Calacanis16:54

       Far from deplorable. Far from deplorable.

   28. DFDavid Friedberg16:54

       Look at the number of Black and brown men that are incarcerated for, for absolutely ridiculous crimes. I don't know if you saw this past week, but there was a person that was released from jail because he couldn't even be protected in jail because in some of these cells, they run these fight clubs inside of Rikers Island that are basically tacitly endorsed by the corrections officers that don't do anything.

   29. JCJason Calacanis17:14

       And the difference-

   30. DFDavid Friedberg17:15

       So hold on, Jason. So if you wanna talk about the human rights of people, I think we have a responsibility to take care of our own backyard first. First. And then we can go and basically morally tell other people how they should be running their own countries.
4. 57:36 – 1:04:09

   Considering the rise of authoritarianism in the US, positive stimulus impacts

   1. JCJason Calacanis57:36

      today?

   2. DFDavid Friedberg57:36

      Oh, no. This is just a simple-

   3. DSDavid Sacks57:37

      You know, J Cal, if you're concerned-

   4. DFDavid Friedberg57:38

      Oh, yeah.

   5. DSDavid Sacks57:38

      ... about the rise of authoritarianism, which actually, this was my, one of my big trends in the prediction episodes, uh, o- what-

   6. JCJason Calacanis57:43

      I am concerned. Yeah, democracy is stalled.

   7. DSDavid Sacks57:44

      Yeah, which was the most negative trend. But then I think you should be concerned about this, like, rising tide we have here of censorship and the surveillance state-

   8. JCJason Calacanis57:51

      100% care about it. Yes. I'm in agreement.

   9. DSDavid Sacks57:53

      And our federal law enforcement agencies demanding more and more powers-

   10. JCJason Calacanis57:56

       And lockdowns.

   11. DSDavid Sacks57:57

       ... and lockdowns, the infringement of civil liberties.

   12. JCJason Calacanis57:59

       I'm in agreement on those. I'm in agreement on those.

   13. DSDavid Sacks58:00

       Instead of blowing this whole, like, January 6th thing out of proportion, you should be concerned about their attempts to exploit and use that to demand more powers to surveil-

   14. JCJason Calacanis58:09

       I, I do not believe in sur-

   15. DSDavid Sacks58:11

       ... and prosecute American citizens.

   16. JCJason Calacanis58:11

       I do, I do not believe in surveillance. What I, and, and I think you can hold-

   17. DSDavid Sacks58:14

       But you should understand that the hysteria created around that event is gonna be used... is gonna be exploited-

   18. JCJason Calacanis58:19

       Possibly.

   19. DSDavid Sacks58:19

       ... to demand these powers.

   20. JCJason Calacanis58:21

       But, yeah. I, uh, politicians are exploiting this on all sides of the aisle. I agree with you. The right and the left. The right is diminishing it, the left is exacerbating it. The truth in the middle is, I think, we are in agreement, Sax. The overwhelming majority of people who went to the Capitol that day were dipshits who just wanted to protest and they cared about Trump and they went there for the party of it all. And then there was a small cohort who intended harm and who are deranged and who could potentially be dangerous in the way Chamath framed it, lone wolfs or small packs of wolves, like the Oklahoma City bombers, who murdered a large number of people. Um, and so we have to be-

   21. DSDavid Sacks58:53

       So we'll put it-

   22. JCJason Calacanis58:53

       ... very careful in, in prosecuting one group one way and one the other way. And that's exactly what the Department of Justice has, has done in that case. 700 people got pled deals or very minor sentences. And then these folks are gonna have the book thrown at them, and rightfully so, because they could have murdered Pence or they could have murdered Pelosi, just like that woman got murdered. I'm sorry, the woman s- tragically got stopped and shot and died. Like, that could have been a much different day. If dozens of people had died and those cops had not shown restraint, we could be sitting here having a much different discussion about the Oath Keepers. If the Oath Keepers had done what the Oklahoma City bombers succeeded in doing, this would be a much different discussion.

   23. DSDavid Sacks59:32

       Right. They didn't, which is why it is a different discussion.

   24. JCJason Calacanis59:34

       Well, thank God for our police and, and, uh, and for how brave they were in not u- unloading their pistols when (laughs) any reasonable person who was being beaten by that crowd and crushed would have taken their gun out and started firing. They didn't. Thank God those police did not start firing.

   25. DSDavid Sacks59:49

       Okay, good. Look, I, I think the one thing we can agree on is we don't want something like that to happen again. And there's two things-

   26. JCJason Calacanis59:53

       100%.

   27. DSDavid Sacks59:53

       Two simple things that would prevent it. One is reform of the, the Electoral Count Act, like we talked about. That's what Biden should be going for, not making these speeches about Bull Connor and George Wallace. He could actually get that done. And the other thing is, if the Capitol Police had just been a little bit more prepared and had barricades and screens and better security, that also couldn't have... it couldn't happen again. That's all we have to do to solve that problem-

   28. JCJason Calacanis1:00:14

       Well, no.

   29. DSDavid Sacks1:00:14

       ... of January 6th.

   30. JCJason Calacanis1:00:14

       The third thing we have to do is arrest these Oath Keepers and put them in jail-
5. 1:04:09 – 1:19:44

   Groundbreaking study on a possible root cause of multiple sclerosis, pig heart successfully transplanted into living person, SEC considering tightening accreditation laws

   1. DFDavid Friedberg1:04:09

   2. JCJason Calacanis1:04:09

      Tell us about this new study from Harvard that revealed Epstein-Barr virus could be associated with MS.

   3. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:04:14

      I'll do a zoom out, then a zoom in.

   4. JCJason Calacanis1:04:15

      Yes, please.

   5. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:04:16

      So, please bear with me for a moment. Uh, so, uh, you know, there are over 80 what are called autoimmune diseases. These are diseases where your body, your immune system attacks your own tissue and causes real problems. One in 20 people worldwide suffer from some sort of autoimmune condition. So, Crohn's disease, lupus which affects, you know, your whole system, uh, rheumatoid arthritis where your joints get inflamed, Sjogren's syndrome where your eyes and your mouth get- get messed up, and- and multiple sclerosis, which we'll talk about here in a second. But these are all diseases that have a similar ideology, which is that your immune system attacks some tissue in your body. It- it dysfunctions and it attacks it. And there's always been this big question about kind of what causes autoimmune conditions and what causes immune system dysregulation like this. And there's all sorts of different theories and studies and papers, many of which have been, you know, well, well-documented. Genetic risk factors, environmental factors, age. And in particular, as you get older, the thymus, which is supposed to create these helper cells that go out and keep cells in your immune system from attacking your own body, your thymus kind of starts to fade away or, sorry, your thalamus starts to fade away and start- start- stop working. And so, um, you know, one theory that's been talked about a lot is molecular mimicry, which means that there's some protein from a virus so that enters your body, or cancer, and that protein looks a lot like some other protein in your body. And so, your immune system starts attacking that protein, and as a result, your immune system gets turned on to that protein and it actually attacks a similar looking protein somewhere else in your body. Um, and that's a, you know, very kind of broad statement about, you know, s- some potential cause of autoimmune conditions. And you can find protein mimicry theories coming from the gut, uh, where, you know, microbes in the gut are triggering this, and then also viruses. So, in particular, you know, cytomegalovirus and Epstein-Barr virus, which is... we're gonna talk about here today. So, multiple sclerosis is this disease, one of the autoimmune diseases, where your immune system attacks and destroys myelin, which is, you know, found on, um, your nerve cells and in your brain. And it can actually cause... You know, when- when this happens and your immune system starts to attack your brain, you end up with these lesions and- and really debilitating effects over time. One in 300 people in the US have been diagnosed with MS. It is a brutal disease. It- it lasts your whole life. Uh, and the treatment today, the primary treatment, is this drug that destroys B cells in your body. And your B cells make antibodies, and so by destroying the B cells, it gets rid of the cells that are making the antibodies that are res- attacking your own brain. And, uh, and this is a really effective treatment. It's been able to reduce the effects of MS significantly, but we still don't know what causes it and what triggers MS. And there's always been this theory, going back to the- the mimicry question...... that one of these viruses that everyone seems to get as they, you know, age is causing it. Um, and so Epstein-Barr virus has always been thought to be one of those viruses. It's one of the herpes viruses.

Episode duration: 1:25:08