Prof. Preeti Aghalayam|"Sometimes it feels like living in a National Geographic documentary."| Ep.19

1. 0:00 – 1:03

   Introduction to IITM Zanzibar

   1. PAPreeti Aghalayam0:00

      making a physical campus abroad is a very big step. So we call ourselves the IITM Zanzibar family. The sense of community is really very important for us. Out of the 3,000 PhD scholars you have on campus, you have 1,000 of them being women. [upbeat music]

   2. SPSpeaker0:31

      Hi, my name is Amrit. We've heard that IIT Madras is the best place to build. [upbeat music] So we've come down to the Sudha and Shankar Innovation Hub. We want to meet some people. These are builders. We want to talk to them about their work, and also ask them what makes IIT Madras the best place to build? [upbeat music]

2. 1:03 – 1:06

   Welcome to the Best Place to Build Podcast

   1. SPSpeaker1:03

      Hello, and welcome to The Best Place to Build Podcast. Today I'm sitting with

3. 1:06 – 1:38

   Interview with Professor Preeti: Founding Director of IIT Madras Zanzibar

   1. SPSpeaker1:06

      Professor Preeti. Professor Preeti is the Founding Director of the IIT Madras Zanzibar campus. She's also the first woman director of any IIT campus. Uh, before this, she was a chemical engineering professor at IIT Madras, and then before that, at IIT Bombay. Welcome to the podcast, Professor.

   2. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:21

      Thank you so much, Amritash. A pleasure to be here.

   3. SPSpeaker1:24

      Um, I also want to tell you that we, uh, took three months to schedule this because, of course, you are traveling between campuses, and today you are in Chennai. Um, Professor, you're the founding director of this new IIT campus outside India,

4. 1:38 – 5:23

   Steps to Establishing a New IIT Campus

   1. SPSpeaker1:38

      and the first question that comes to mind is: What does it take to start a new IIT? [chuckles] Can you break it down into steps for us?

   2. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:46

      So I think we can write a book about this, uh, and we probably should. Uh, it's first of all, the initiation comes from the governments, although, uh, as an IIT, as IIT Madras, we are, uh, autonomous, uh, but we are still supported by the government. And a lot of this kind of activity that we do outside the country does need the blessing of, uh, the government of India. And I think as, uh, you know, a blue- Office of Global Engagement in IIT Madras, we've been, uh, sort of treading a lot of new ground already in this theme of internationalization. And, you know, we've done ton of things that are very new, very different in the realm of internationalization. But this is a big step. Making a physical-

   3. SPSpeaker2:36

      Sure

   4. PAPreeti Aghalayam2:36

      ... campus abroad is a very big step for any institution, but particularly for an institution like an IIT, which has a lot of 50, 60 years of a brand that is built. You go in a new region, will you enjoy the type of, uh, you know, autonomy, the enablement, just the recognition that you have in India, um, and how important is that to think about all these things? So you wanted me to break it down into steps. I think the first is for the two governments, wherever we are going, to have a very, uh, good, strong, possibly a strategic kind of bilateral relationship. That is, uh, very important. Nothing would happen without that. And the second would be that, uh... and of course, IIT Madras [chuckles] always raises its hand first for all these things, want to do this, want to pick up on this, uh, challenge and go over there, and you have to set up everything from scratch, right? Every chair, every blackboard, every single student, faculty that is a staff member, et cetera. So first, of course, some agreements between the government involving IIT Madras and what we need, what we, uh, imagine for something like this. A good academic, uh, s- being set up in terms of what are the programs that we are going to offer, what is the curriculum going to look like, what is the student selection process going to be like, and what is the market for these students? Where are they going to come from? How are we going to ensure that that aligns with, you know, with the type of student we're looking with- looking for, and the program that we're looking at? And then the big deal about faculty. Students also, of course, it's very difficult, but you can, uh, find students who want the IIT Madras experience, even in Zanzibar. But then the faculty who will teach the IIT Madras courses, so setting up that, I think, is, uh, definitely one of the top three or four steps. Building the physical campus, uh, making sure that it is, uh, commensurate with where IIT Madras is today, and we can do the type of classes we want, have the administrative faculty experiences, student experiences, that is deserved of an IIT Madras student. That is the fourth one. And the rest of it is all lots of everyday, uh, details for, uh, running this institution successfully, making sure that, um, you know, there is a long-term focus, uh, but also a, a short-term handling of details focus as well.

   5. SPSpeaker5:19

      Yeah. Uh, mm, I want to go into detail on some of these things

5. 5:23 – 7:00

   Rapid Progress: From Agreement to First Day of Classes

   1. SPSpeaker5:23

      you said, you... First of all, can I just comment that the way you're saying it, it feels like this will take five years, but it's actually taken, like, what? One, one and a half years to set up since the agreement?

   2. PAPreeti Aghalayam5:33

      So even less than that, Amritash. Uh, so we signed... We made a visit to, uh, Zanzibar, abou- about five of us professors from here, in February of 2023. Then we did a lot of paperwork around agreements and things like that, uh, subsequently. In July of 2023, uh, we signed the MoU, which is a tripartite MoU between the governments of India, government of Zanzibar, and IIT Madras. Okay, uh, this was in front of the president of Zanzibar and our external affairs, uh, minister. Both of them, uh, were present when we signed the MoU.... immediately opened applications, 24th October 2023, first day of classes.

   3. SPSpeaker6:19

      Oh, wow!

   4. PAPreeti Aghalayam6:19

      So it's really shortened, uh, timelines. And, you know, e- even I sometimes can't believe it, that we managed to put all these things together, you know, student selection, curriculum, get faculty sorted out, make sure the campus is ready. We also have hostels, so pe- students are, uh, l- from day one, living in the hostels, dining, everything in this, uh, short period of time. So I don't know, I think we were blessed, we were, uh, lucky, uh, but also lots of people across all of this came together to do this, uh, so quickly.

   5. SPSpeaker6:57

      It's amazing. Um, just to dive in a bit on the curriculum

6. 7:00 – 8:58

   Curriculum and Courses Offered at IIT Madras Zanzibar

   1. SPSpeaker7:00

      side, so what are the courses that are being offered?

   2. PAPreeti Aghalayam7:02

      So, uh, we have a Bachelor of Science, four-year, uh, in Data Science and AI. That's what we started with. We have a two-year MTech Data Science AI. We started in 2023 with both of these. In 2024, we introduced, uh, an MTech in Ocean Structures, because we are in Zanzibar island, and that's also something that is a popular course of study of late. Um, and this year we'll introduce, uh, possibly a couple more disciplines as well.

   3. SPSpeaker7:32

      Do you know which disciplines? Can you share with us?

   4. PAPreeti Aghalayam7:34

      Yeah. Uh, most likely, although the, uh... you know, it, it's not yet out there, uh, we are going to have a BS, a Bachelor of Science, in, uh, Chemical slash Process Engineering for this academic year, and we'll open out applications for this shortly. We're doing some checks and balances on this.

   5. SPSpeaker7:54

      In, in deciding these courses, I guess you'll have to look at what Zanzibar needs.

   6. PAPreeti Aghalayam7:58

      Yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker7:59

      Uh, and, and I guess Zanzibar, it, it's an autonomous region, uh, part of the Tanzania, the country of Tanzania. Is that right?

   8. PAPreeti Aghalayam8:08

      Correct. Uh, that's correct. So Zanzibar is an island. Actually, it's an archipelago, it's a group of islands, and, uh, they are part of, uh, the United Republic of Tanzania. So in terms of the country, uh, it is Tanzania, and Zanzibar is a part of it, although it is a autonomous region as well. There are some, uh, things that are shared between, uh, mainland Tanzania, as they call it, and island Zanzibar, and some that are, uh, separated. But the campus is an international one, so it's not only what Zanzibar needs, but what sort of the region, definitely the East Africa region, possibly, uh, the continent of Africa needs, is what we are looking at, if not the world.

   9. SPSpeaker8:54

      Understood. Actually, can you, can you just

7. 8:58 – 12:36

   International Campus and Student Demographics

   1. SPSpeaker8:58

      delve into that? When you say it's an international campus, what does that mean?

   2. PAPreeti Aghalayam9:02

      Yeah. Uh, it's an international campus m- m- mainly means that, uh, applications are welcome from students of all nationalities from wherever they are, and likewise for faculty. And of course, that's the direction all of us are going towards. Uh, here in our Chennai campus, we are welcoming so many more students from other, uh, geographies and also faculty. Um, but over there in Zanzibar, from the get-go, we said this is what we are.

   3. SPSpeaker9:33

      Okay.

   4. PAPreeti Aghalayam9:33

      Already, we have representation from handful of African countries, uh, Zambia, Kenya, Tanzania, and so on, but we also have students coming from India and from the Middle East as well. So geographically, it's a little convenient for these regions.

   5. SPSpeaker9:48

      Right.

   6. PAPreeti Aghalayam9:48

      But going forward, we expect that it's going to be this kind of melting pot, where really smart people from across the world come. And, you know, for some parts of the world, it may be closer than, uh, Chennai.

   7. SPSpeaker10:02

      Yeah.

   8. PAPreeti Aghalayam10:02

      And so, you know, there, there's a-

   9. SPSpeaker10:04

      Fair enough. And I also feel like when you think of, "I'm going to a place"-

   10. PAPreeti Aghalayam10:09

       Yeah

   11. SPSpeaker10:09

       ... it's like I'm going to this island country where there's an institute of learning. I learn something, come back. It's like a very boys and return kind of-

   12. PAPreeti Aghalayam10:16

       Yeah

   13. SPSpeaker10:16

       ... story. Um, ma'am, can I ask, so i- in terms of intel- internationalization, when we talk of the IIT Madras main campus, I think there may be 1% international students-

   14. PAPreeti Aghalayam10:27

       Yes

   15. SPSpeaker10:27

       ... or maybe a little more than 1% international students. So in India, when we say international, that number is actually quite low. Um, in, of course, in Europe, what happens is, because people come from other countries of Europe, it's the same continent, but different countries. So internationalization could mean-

   16. PAPreeti Aghalayam10:43

       Yeah

   17. SPSpeaker10:43

       ... like, somebody from an international country could literally be coming 30 kilometers-

   18. PAPreeti Aghalayam10:47

       Mm

   19. SPSpeaker10:47

       ... just across the border. So they are truly, like, 50% of students are from outside their country. So what is that kind of percentage in IIT Madras Zanzibar?

   20. PAPreeti Aghalayam10:55

       So at IITM Zanzibar, about 50%, in that sense of the word, international.

   21. SPSpeaker11:00

       Okay.

   22. PAPreeti Aghalayam11:00

       So we keep sort of sitting around-

   23. SPSpeaker11:02

       Yes

   24. PAPreeti Aghalayam11:02

       ... and saying, "What is international? Is it non-Zanzibari?" Because physically, we are located in Zanzibar slash, uh-

   25. SPSpeaker11:08

       Yeah

   26. PAPreeti Aghalayam11:08

       ... Tanzania, so should we count that? That will be more than 50%. Should we count non-Indians? Because we are an Indian Institute of, uh, Technology.

   27. SPSpeaker11:17

       Sure.

   28. PAPreeti Aghalayam11:17

       That would be around 50%. Uh, of course, we are small. Right now, we're 105 students in all, and about 10 to 12 faculty in all. So we have one, uh, Kenyan national who's a faculty member with us, assistant professor. Rest, at this moment, are, uh, Indian, including us, who are going on deputation from here, but that's going to change. Students, already we have, uh, a handful of students from... soccer-obsessed students from Zambia, and then we have a Kenyan, uh, student as well. And from both, uh... There are two big islands of Zanzibar in the archipelago. So the main one, uh, Unguja, we have a bunch of students. Another one, Pemba, also we have a bunch of students.

   29. SPSpeaker12:00

       Okay.

   30. PAPreeti Aghalayam12:00

       Mainland Tanzania, a couple of cities, uh, from there also, we have students. And we expect, uh, more countries of Africa to be represented, um, and possibly even other Asian countries. We also have a Nepali student in our program, so maybe somebody from Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka.... who's willing to travel to Zanzibar also, we will have.
8. 12:36 – 13:29

   Community and Campus Life at Zanzibar

   1. PAPreeti Aghalayam12:36

      Yeah, so we call ourselves the IITM Zanzibar family, and it... The just, the sense of community is really very important for us. From the first day, that's what we said. We do everything together, all the activities. You know, over here, this campus has become so large, I think, that, you know, the undergrads are on their own sort of agenda, and then the, the PhD scholars and-

   2. SPSpeaker13:02

      Yeah

   3. PAPreeti Aghalayam13:02

      ... faculty and staff are simply not involved in several of the things that the young people are doing. In Zanzibar, we are there everywhere. You know, we went on a cycling trip, like a whole pile of us together, faculty, and staff, and drivers, and students, and mostly undergraduate, but a handful of, uh, postgraduate students also. So we got into the bus, uh, loaded up cycles, and we went, and, you know, things like that we do-

   4. SPSpeaker13:28

      Yeah, it's possible.

9. 13:29 – 20:17

   Building a Sense of Community

   1. PAPreeti Aghalayam13:29

      Yeah.

   2. SPSpeaker13:29

      Yeah.

   3. PAPreeti Aghalayam13:30

      We do a lot of them together mindfully also, on purpose, uh, because we want... I think it's, it's very critical to build that sense of community, uh, into the DNA of an institution. In, in this day and age, that is, I think, very important.

   4. SPSpeaker13:48

      That's amazing. I'm m- going back at my time at IIT Madras, and we had a, uh, there were 120 students in my class-

   5. PAPreeti Aghalayam13:54

      Yeah

   6. SPSpeaker13:55

      ... and I don't even remember all of their names, and if I meet them again, maybe I'll recognize, like, 10% or 15% of them. So that's, that's how distant you become in a large campus.

   7. PAPreeti Aghalayam14:04

      Yeah, exactly.

   8. SPSpeaker14:05

      Um, I also want to, um, uh, uh, the, the, the selfish student perspective here-

   9. PAPreeti Aghalayam14:14

      [chuckles]

   10. SPSpeaker14:14

       ... is that because it's so small and close-knit, you get a lot of access to these professors-

   11. PAPreeti Aghalayam14:19

       Yeah

   12. SPSpeaker14:19

       ... which in IIT Madras, it's not even possible. Like, professors are busy all the time, and you don't get to meet them on a bus-

   13. PAPreeti Aghalayam14:27

       Yeah

   14. SPSpeaker14:27

       ... and definitely not cycling with them-

   15. PAPreeti Aghalayam14:29

       Yeah

   16. SPSpeaker14:29

       ... unless you are in their research group.

   17. PAPreeti Aghalayam14:31

       Right.

   18. SPSpeaker14:32

       Yeah.

   19. PAPreeti Aghalayam14:33

       No, you're very right. So we have a big dining hall in the campus. By the way, we are in a transit campus facility, which it's a completely built-up, uh, place, and, uh, Professor Liji Philip, who was dean planning at that time, and she's a- still the professor in charge infrastructure for our Zanzibar campus, representing us. She and her team had given specifications of what this transit facility should look like, so that it, you know, so that it can bear the [chuckles] IIT Madras stamp. One of those things is this dining hall, and it's beautiful. It's 100-plus capacity, uh, almost little bit getting too full f- uh, over there now, but we all sit there and eat. All the profs are there, I am there, and the students are there, and you come in and, uh, go out. When Professor Raghu visits, he eats in the mess also, along with the students. So you're right, the access that the students in Zanzibar have to all of us-

   20. SPSpeaker15:29

       Right

   21. PAPreeti Aghalayam15:30

       ... is much, much more than you can get here in-

   22. SPSpeaker15:33

       100%, and Professor Raghu is so busy here.

   23. PAPreeti Aghalayam15:35

       Yeah. [chuckles]

   24. SPSpeaker15:35

       Sort of, you have to wait for an appointment, and I remember trying to meet him once, and, uh, it just three, four weeks.

   25. PAPreeti Aghalayam15:43

       Yeah.

   26. SPSpeaker15:43

       And of course, he's also traveling. Um, Professor, so can you explain to me, uh, what the vibe on campus... I know you've said it a bit, l- but let's just, like, put it all together.

   27. PAPreeti Aghalayam15:52

       Yeah. So it's an island, right? And all islands have a chill vibe, so that obviously seeps in. Yeah, of course, IIT Madras is very intense, but it's a good balance of that Zanzibari chill vibe and our own, you know, academic rigor, "Let's focus on this." And of course, these are students of IIT Madras, so you know that one thread is this entrepreneurship and innovativeness of-

   28. SPSpeaker16:20

       Yeah

   29. PAPreeti Aghalayam16:20

       ... stu- creativity of students. That's an important thread that's already kicked off over there, which I'm so happy to see, and, you know, you sort of hope that you're putting in the input parameters to drive that. Uh, but it was really gratifying to see. Our students are in all the hackathons possible, that whatever they can access, either online or in the city there, over there. So they're doing, uh, these things. We don't yet have all the engineering represented, but this kind of activity is soon going to come there also, uh, I think. But overall, um, definitely, I would say that, uh, as I was saying before, that closeness, uh, is also still there because we- we're still very small. Pretty much everybody knows everybody's name. I know all the 105 students' names for sure, and I think most of the faculty also know it. I don't think it's, y- you know, very intrusive, that we are all in each other's, uh, businesses like that, uh, because it's... This- the space is very nice. I, I, I can share you some photos. It's sort of quite nicely s- splayed out in terms of the classrooms, the hostel, um, the, uh, the dining, and the administrative, uh, sections, and so on. But it's, it's just, um, uh, it's, it's just really... I think you have to see it to really-

   30. SPSpeaker17:45

       Okay
10. 20:17 – 22:36

    Student Showcase Event: The Power of Data

    1. PAPreeti Aghalayam20:17

       So we called it the student showcase event, and we titled it The Power of Data, because these are all data science to our students, essentially, apart from the handful of ocean structures. And whatever we do... I mean, today, whatever curriculum you have, even if it's a chem eng curriculum, cross-cutting into a data science, machine learning, AI is very important. So anyway, so we organized this. We said, "Let's give it a shot. Let's see how it goes." 35-plus students were given an... We opened it out to everybody. 35, uh, plus students chose to present. Uh, 14 of them, maybe 13, were women out of this 35. Three minutes. We said, "You have three minutes," and we bought a- brought a bike horn, and we said, "Three..." "At the end of, uh, at 2 minutes and 50 seconds, we're going to [chuckles] ring this really annoying thing, so you get off the stage." And we got an audience from our network over there and ourselves and so on. Um, they have a nice auditorium. So we let the students loose on this. It was so awesome, the creative ideas that they have. They're still fleshing out there. These are first-year undergrads.

    2. SPSpeaker21:25

       Yeah, they're 18-year-olds-

    3. PAPreeti Aghalayam21:27

       Yeah

    4. SPSpeaker21:27

       ... 19-year-olds.

    5. PAPreeti Aghalayam21:28

       So the first semester, third semester undergrads, and maybe a first semester MTech student was there in that. The ideas they gave, and, you know, there was this one, uh, student, I was so impressed with her. She's Tanzanian. She said that, "I want to use, um, online sort of edtech kind of, uh, opportunities to make sure that people with learning disabilities are properly included into classroom experiences, so I'm going to build that out." And there was one on tourism, because tourism is a big deal for Zanzibar. So many of the students talk about how we can improve the tourist experience using, you know, uh, apps and data, and, and stuff like that.

    6. SPSpeaker22:11

       Nice.

    7. PAPreeti Aghalayam22:11

       From the audience, we had people from corporate, ministry, academic- academia in the region and all that. One person said that, "This is exactly what my company is looking for," for one of the ideas. "When you're ready, you come to me. I will fund you. Let's build this product."

    8. SPSpeaker22:29

       Nice.

    9. PAPreeti Aghalayam22:29

       So it's, uh, it was just phenomenal to see it. We were so impressed.

    10. SPSpeaker22:34

        Nice. That's really cool.

11. 22:36 – 32:57

    Campus Facilities and Outreach Activities

    1. SPSpeaker22:36

       Um, you spoke about the pictures, so you've given me some pictures. Let's go over them.

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam22:40

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker22:40

       Maybe you can just, um, explain to me what these pictures are.

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam22:44

       So, uh, this is... So in our campus, uh, language is another important aspect-

    5. SPSpeaker22:50

       Right

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam22:50

       ... that includes or excludes people.

    7. SPSpeaker22:53

       And you're an international lan- campus, so there may be, like, a lot of languages on campus.

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam22:56

       Yes. In my fir- I taught a first-year undergrad class, uh, this past month, at least 10 languages, you know? Because there's, uh, students from Zambia speaking, and then Arabic, and the local language is Swahili. Of course, Indians, three, four languages among the Indians. So this, um, we have it in four languages that the welcome to IIT Madras, uh, Zanzibar campus line in four languages. This is the Hindi version, and these are our women students all dressed up for a Diwali event that we did. So we're equally doing the local festivals and so on, and Indian ones also. So some of the, yeah, I think some of the girls are Indian, and some are from Zanzibar, and they have such close friendships already, so I really like this-

    9. SPSpeaker23:44

       Nice

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam23:44

        ... uh, photo.

    11. SPSpeaker23:45

        That-

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam23:45

        And you see the flag on-

    13. SPSpeaker23:47

        Yeah, on the-

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam23:47

        Both the flags. This is the Tanzanian, that's the Indian flag right there.

    15. SPSpeaker23:53

        Let me go to the next picture.

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam23:55

        Yeah, so this is a beautiful shot of our campus. One thing about Zanzibar that doesn't get enough mention is the blueness of their blue sky, especially when contrasted with the ocean, is really lovely. This was on inauguration day when the, uh, president of Zanzibar was in the campus. It was one massive event. It was, you know, crazy, um, in November 2023.... Karibu is Swahili for welcome.

    17. SPSpeaker24:22

        Okay.

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam24:22

        And on this thing, you have lots of languages. I mean, you'll find Hindi and Tamil and everything. It's a long shot of our, uh, campus, uh-

    19. SPSpeaker24:32

        This is the transit campus that you're talking about?

    20. PAPreeti Aghalayam24:33

        The... Yeah, it's about four and a half acres. So this is, um, the, uh ... These are all classrooms on this side, administrative offices on this side, and you go through here to get to the hostel side. It's not visits.

    21. SPSpeaker24:49

        Nice.

    22. PAPreeti Aghalayam24:49

        So this is our soccer-crazy boys. They're just nuts about soccer. [chuckles]

    23. SPSpeaker24:56

        Okay.

    24. PAPreeti Aghalayam24:56

        And they play all the time on this, in the quadrangle of the hostel, they play soccer. This was when we had a visit from a local school. Uh, children from a local school came to visit us to see how they- how is this college? Is this something that I should join, et cetera. So this was last year, and this is our team in our-

    25. SPSpeaker25:17

        Ah, you must be, uh ... There must be a lot of outreach happening to local schools and, uh, a lot of, I guess, um, any new institution, right?

    26. PAPreeti Aghalayam25:26

        Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker25:26

        It's not about Zanzibar or IIT. Any new institution has to very quickly integrate very deeply with its local-

    28. PAPreeti Aghalayam25:33

        Yeah

    29. SPSpeaker25:33

        ... ecosystem.

    30. PAPreeti Aghalayam25:33

        But the, especially the school community, that's something that, you know, uh, this year, I, I, I think I'm good about it, but last year it was like I've never interacted with schools so much, um, as I have in Zanzibar. I visited, I don't know, I, I met at least 500 school children last year. Um [chuckles] never done that in India. And I made these little pens and took it from here. It says IITM Zanzibar, and they love it. They just love having these pens in their hands.
12. 32:57 – 35:26

    Challenges and Opportunities in Zanzibar

    1. PAPreeti Aghalayam32:57

       So I think that's where, uh, cutting in the island, uh, Zanzibar, uh, mindset is, has probably been good for us, because it could be very stressful if we didn't have that foil to our, uh, that initial nervous energy, I, I think. Things are gonna take how much time they're going to take, right? You can't push it beyond a certain point. And, yeah, we go with a lot of chest-thumping about we are IIT Madras, but, you know, frankly, if you go to any part of Africa, no, you don't even have to go rural, urban Africa, you can't assume that they know... Actually, you can fairly assume that they don't know what an IIT is, what an-

    2. SPSpeaker33:40

       Right

    3. PAPreeti Aghalayam33:41

       ... IIT Madras is. You know, Madras, what is that? And then we also have this Madras, Chennai, you know, we're on the-

    4. SPSpeaker33:46

       Yeah

    5. PAPreeti Aghalayam33:46

       ... coast, we're that sort of thing. So I think it has been, um, there is, of course, a lot of nervous energy, and, uh, don't get me wrong, it's extremely challenging. There are frustrations every day in, obviously, like in a startup, in, um, uh, you know, when, when we are over there, when we're [chuckles] especially trying to remote do some of the activities like I am doing right now, uh, but I think-

    6. SPSpeaker34:10

       Yeah, we actually take a lot of things here for granted in, in Chennai.

    7. PAPreeti Aghalayam34:14

       Yeah.

    8. SPSpeaker34:14

       Um, like, even simple things like water, electricity, internet. Internet-

    9. PAPreeti Aghalayam34:18

       Yeah

    10. SPSpeaker34:18

        ... is something that's abundant in India.

    11. PAPreeti Aghalayam34:20

        Yeah.

    12. SPSpeaker34:21

        Uh, not true across the world. I don't know how it is in Zanzibar, but I get what you're saying, like, you have to think of every small detail and-

    13. PAPreeti Aghalayam34:27

        Yeah, no, and some of these, when I come back here, I realize how much I took these things for granted. You know, support, some of the support I took for granted over here, you can't over there. Internet is not a problem for us. We've solved it in, in the, uh, in the campus for sure. In fact, when the school students come to visit us, we tell them, "100% anywhere you go, there's Wi-Fi," and that is, of course, the most exciting thing for them, that they don't have to, uh, worry about that, and they're really excited by that. Uh, but internet is still, uh... Also, it's an island, so you have to move the cables underground. It's a little more expensive, um, than it is in, uh, India, for sure. India, we've, I think, done remarkably well-

    14. SPSpeaker35:15

        Yeah

    15. PAPreeti Aghalayam35:15

        ... uh, in this respect.

    16. SPSpeaker35:16

        I mean, we spent 10 years digging our roads and putting [chuckles] the cables underground, so.

    17. PAPreeti Aghalayam35:20

        Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

    18. SPSpeaker35:23

        Um, ma'am, uh, when we talk

13. 35:26 – 41:11

    Admissions Process and Eligibility

    1. SPSpeaker35:26

       of admissions to IIT Madras in India-

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam35:29

       Yeah

    3. SPSpeaker35:30

       ... um, and when we go to schools, or I, I do some of that effort on behalf of IIT Madras, so one of the biggest conversations we have with people are about placements and jobs, and is that the same there, or is it different? Or, like, do parents and students come and ask you, "When they're 17 year old, what job will I get?" [chuckles]

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam35:50

       To some extent, yeah. Uh, but I think the nature of our test is also a little bit different. You know, it's, it's, um, five parts to it: physics, chemistry, maths, mental ability, and English comprehension and vocabulary.... So, uh, there is- so the, the pool of students that are thinking about this exam is, is slightly different. But you're right that lots of parents say, "You know, what are the job opportunities? What are the placements?" Et cetera. Irrespective of nationality, it doesn't-

    5. SPSpeaker36:21

       Right

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam36:21

       ... I don't think it's only the Indians that are, um, uh, asking about this. Um, our fees are also a little bit higher, uh, than over here. Uh, you know, they are more like a private institution rather than an IIT. And so that, that is the other thing. I think people are doing the calculation of, "If I'm investing this much-

    7. SPSpeaker36:40

       Yeah

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam36:40

       ... you know, what is going to be the P-

    9. SPSpeaker36:42

       ROI or whatever

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam36:43

        ... recovery and things like that?

    11. SPSpeaker36:44

        Oh, interesting. Okay.

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam36:45

        All right. Yeah, so-

    13. SPSpeaker36:47

        Like a multiple of years.

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam36:48

        Exactly. Yeah, how, how is it going to go? So, uh, and it's, it's re- but it's very early days for us, and not even a single batch has graduated-

    15. SPSpeaker36:58

        Yeah

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam36:58

        ... at this point of time. So we have to tell them the stories about our alumni, our 60,000 alumni of IIT Madras, what are they up to, right? And one of the lines that, uh, we keep, uh, stating over here that lots of our students are aspiring to be, uh, employers rather than go into some-

    17. SPSpeaker37:20

        Yeah

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam37:20

        ... line job in, in some company. And that they're, after an undergrad, they're qualifying themselves with, uh, a- additional degrees and so on. So we have to ... Which it's very complicated to explain, because you can't write down and give them, "You know, it's all right, your child, your ward, will get a job of X, uh, dollars per year at the end of it." So, yeah, for me, it, it bothers me a lot when they ask this question because, you know, especially an undergrad education is- cannot just be seen as a conduit to a job.

    19. SPSpeaker37:55

        Mm.

    20. PAPreeti Aghalayam37:55

        Forget a career, not even a job, right? There's so much, and, uh, w- our value add is, of course, that academic, uh, education part of it, concepts, problem-solving techniques. But also form the, the, the young person, the 17-year-old, 18-year-old that comes to us, forms their philosophy for their own life, how they're going to live it, what they're going to do with it, what job, career, aspirational path they're going to go down, et cetera, which are not easy to convey, I think. Um, because I think when you say too much of these things, it immediately creates a distance between a parent or a student and me as a professor, and I don't want to push that also.

    21. SPSpeaker38:41

        Fair enough. Um, it's n- uh, mm, your undergrad education is not just a resume-building exercise.

    22. PAPreeti Aghalayam38:47

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker38:48

        Yeah. Fair enough.

    24. PAPreeti Aghalayam38:49

        At least, and that's not the way the program is structured also. So we have ... You know, we put together curricula so carefully. Like, there are the foundational aspects, and when you do the foundational science, math, it is to harmonize across wherever you're coming from, uh, either in terms of your, uh, school education or in terms of mindset of how you're approaching problems, et cetera. And then on top of it, we build the domain-specific knowledge, and then you know that in IIT Madras you have the freedom, you have those free electives, so that you can go in the direction that's, uh, unique but suitable for you, for your aspiration. Figuring that out is the biggest deal, no? It's not about ... You know, you can do the courses. We'll tell you, "Do these 50 courses, and you're done with five semesters or whatever, six semesters."

    25. SPSpeaker39:43

        Actually, today is- the world is such a unique place, if a student is truly motivated, they can just learn everything online.

    26. PAPreeti Aghalayam39:49

        Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker39:49

        They can just, uh, you know, go to one of these MOOCs and learn everything.

    28. PAPreeti Aghalayam39:52

        Mm-hmm.

    29. SPSpeaker39:52

        But that's not college, right?

    30. PAPreeti Aghalayam39:53

        No, and that's not the experience of ... And it- that's certainly not the IIT, uh-
14. 41:11 – 41:47

    Screening Test and Application Details

    1. PAPreeti Aghalayam41:11

       And we, uh, after the online applications are, uh, uh, completed, we run a screening test, uh, and the screening test is physical.

    2. SPSpeaker41:22

       Okay.

    3. PAPreeti Aghalayam41:22

       We have 40 centers across the world where we are running this, uh, screening test simultaneously. So this year, uh, we are going to do it in two ... Uh, we're going to give two slots because, uh, so that we can handle the volumes and the timelines of different school boards also a little bit better. So you'll- if you're an applicant and you've completed the application form, you'll go to a center near

15. 41:47 – 41:54

    Global Reach of IITM Zanzibar

    1. PAPreeti Aghalayam41:47

       you. 20 African cities also have centers, 20 Indian cities also have centers. We have a handful in the Middle

16. 41:54 – 42:58

    Screening Test and Interviews

    1. PAPreeti Aghalayam41:54

       East also. So you'll write that test, which is, uh, three hours long. Lot of math, little bit of physics and chemistry, little bit of mental ability questions, and a little bit of English comprehension vocabulary. So you'll write that test-... we s- we call it a screening test, IITM Zanzibar screening test, put together by IITM faculty every year. Um, and after that, we, uh, interview all the students. We interview a lot of students because we want to-

    2. SPSpeaker42:23

       Yeah.

    3. PAPreeti Aghalayam42:24

       That's the loveliest part of what I'm doing, actually, being able to talk to all these, uh, students. So we sit online interviews, t- to hardly 10, 15 minutes each, talk to them about their aspirations, why are they thinking about Zanzibar, you know, what are their math skill at, and stuff like that. And then the s- uh, the-

    4. SPSpeaker42:43

       Nice

    5. PAPreeti Aghalayam42:43

       ... list is, uh, list is declared.

    6. SPSpeaker42:46

       Damn interesting. Um, [chuckles] I have this question about whether there are already coaching centers for-

    7. PAPreeti Aghalayam42:51

       [chuckles]

    8. SPSpeaker42:51

       ... IIT Zanzibar test?

    9. PAPreeti Aghalayam42:53

       No, not yet.

    10. SPSpeaker42:54

        Not yet. Um-

    11. PAPreeti Aghalayam42:56

        [chuckles]

17. 42:58 – 44:18

    Addressing Self-Doubt in Test Preparation

    1. PAPreeti Aghalayam42:58

       Although we are running, uh... It's not a coaching center, but, uh, I think if I, again, if I break down what is the most difficult part of a test like this, it's bec- is that you feel unconfident, right? That I can attempt this, and I can do okay in this test.

    2. SPSpeaker43:14

       Yeah, there's a lot of self-doubt.

    3. PAPreeti Aghalayam43:15

       Yeah, and especially for a set of, uh, uh, for a population that doesn't do as many tests as we Indians do, that can be a big problem. And many times when we interact with school in Africa, with school counselors, school teachers, heads of schools, et cetera, they say, "You know, what is this test about? It's the first time our students are finding something like this. Can you help?" So we have some students, um, uh, IT, current IITM students, help out a little bit online. And even just last week, we put out applications to see if any students here will engage online and just sort of support, um, our current applic- current year applicants in preparing for the test a little.

    4. SPSpeaker44:02

       Sure.

    5. PAPreeti Aghalayam44:02

       You should prepare a little bit.

    6. SPSpeaker44:04

       Yeah.

    7. PAPreeti Aghalayam44:04

       Don't come completely unprepared.

    8. SPSpeaker44:06

       Yeah.

    9. PAPreeti Aghalayam44:06

       At least build up some of your confidence before you come. So we are doing that, um, but [chuckles] it's not like the coaching-

    10. SPSpeaker44:14

        Not like India. [laughing] Oh, man, it's a industry now.

18. 44:18 – 49:06

    Governance of IITM Zanzibar

    1. SPSpeaker44:18

       Um, I'm curious to know, um, how is IITM Zanzibar governed? I'm asking this because, uh, IITs are part of the IIT Act, and, uh, there's a structure that the act puts in place. There's a board of governors, there's a, there's a, there, there are appointees to it, there's a director, and there's a senate, and so on.

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam44:38

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker44:39

       So does IIT Madras Zanzibar come under the act, or how, how is it organized?

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam44:44

       It's a very interesting question, and I'm really surprised, Amritaj, that you know about this and you're asking me this. Pleasure to answer it, however. So, uh, because it's an absolute first for the IITs to do something like this, so both of us, IIT Madras and IIT Delhi, uh, we have, uh... Our starting point has been, for the offshore campus, has been an MoU, which is a tripartite one.

    5. SPSpeaker45:09

       IIT Delhi's campus in Abu Dhabi.

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam45:11

       Abu Dhabi.

    7. SPSpeaker45:11

       Yeah.

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam45:11

       Exactly. So it, there's been a, a tripartite MoU for both of these. Uh, uh, the- these are the only two offshore IIT campuses right now. A lot of other private institutions in India have offshore campuses, but we are the only two IITs. So we, it, the starting point was that MoU, which was so very recent. Now, in I- uh, our IITM Zanzibar, our agreement with the Zanzibar government is that this is, uh, we are granting IIT Madras degrees, which means that academically, this is completely an IIT Madras-driven, uh, activity. Which means that what you say about curriculum and senate, and so on, it's the same IIT Madras senate. So this data science curriculum that I was describing to you, uh, before, put together by us here in Chennai, run through the senate over here in Chennai a couple of years ago. For the chem, uh, process engineering one, the same route it is, it is going to happen. Ocean structures went through the IIT Madras senate. So our curricula, and also the student selection process, are IITM senate approved, which gives the academic autonomy. So there is no, nothing from the government of Zanzibar or local, uh, Zanzibari authorities on this matter.

    9. SPSpeaker46:38

       Okay.

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam46:38

        However, it is a cross-border institution because it's physically located over there. It's governed by the local laws over there, so it's registered as a cross-border institution in Zanzibar. And your point about the board is, uh, so very good because IITM Zanzibar has its own governing council, which, uh, has oversight into the activities of the campus across the board. And that is composed of, uh, nominees from, uh, IIT Madras, which IIT Madras director and board have nominated members. It include Professor Bhaskar Ramamurti, uh, Li Jie, who's also on the board. So Devang Thakkar, who's the ex, uh, IIT Bombay director, and so on. And then there is a matched set of, uh, academics and, uh, officials from Zanzibar who are on this board. So there's a, a group of 12 people that have the oversight into the activities. Financially, this campus is supported, of course, from student tuitions, but also the government of, uh, Zanzibar. And in terms of the books, et cetera, it stays over there. In terms of the accounts, everything is in Zanzibar. But strong... Up to now, everything, a lot of activities are, uh, uh, uh, academically, it's completely from IIT Madras, but beyond that, right, beyond what is required, tons of r- support from this campus. There's a regular stream of faculty being deputed. Uh, you know, at least 50% of any course in a semester, um, uh, we're coming up to... We're in the fourth semester of teaching. We've, I think, completed about 30 courses teaching. So even this semester, there's going to be a bunch of faculty from here that spend three months just on the teaching, apart from those like me, that are on longer-term deputation.

    11. SPSpeaker48:37

        ... So the, the, from an, from an academic perspective, a lot of it is done here, and I mean, thought of here-

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam48:44

        Mm-hmm. Yeah

    13. SPSpeaker48:44

        ... and implemented there.

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam48:45

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker48:46

        From an administrative point of view, uh, most of it is completely local, with some help from here. And financially-

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam48:52

        Uh, I wouldn't exactly put it like that. Academically, it's fully IIT Madras, because that's how we can grant our, uh-

    17. SPSpeaker48:58

        Degrees

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam48:59

        ... degrees. Yeah. Administratively, it's a cooperation between-

    19. SPSpeaker49:02

        Understood

    20. PAPreeti Aghalayam49:04

        ... um, local and us.

    21. SPSpeaker49:05

        But Professor,

19. 49:06 – 55:55

    Vision for IITM Zanzibar's Future

    1. SPSpeaker49:06

       what is the vision for five, 10 years for the campus? And also, like, in that vein, are there going to be more IIT campuses outside India?

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam49:14

       So I'll sidestep your second question, and I'll take your, uh, first question. So, uh, you know, th- th- this... I think I've been building up to this answer, uh, through this, uh, really lovely conversation you and I have been having. It's an, it's IIT Madras. It happens to be sitting in Zanzibar, on Zanzibari land, and enjoying the chill island vibe and so on, but it's an IIT Madras campus. So aspirationally, this campus has the same, uh, goals as the... strategic goals as the main campus, and... Which is not easy, [chuckles] because this, this has become a, you know, re- really remarkable, uh, growth journey, especially in the past 10, 15 years, we've seen for IIT. So there's a research park activity. The vision is to bring that kind of activity very quickly into Zanzibar and connect up the IITM Zanzibar campus also that way with technology development and entrepreneurship, and, and, you know, in impacting at scale. Um, and solving not just Zanzibari or Tanzanian problems, but global, uh, challenges that, that are out there or facing Africa. You know, Africa has a youth bulge now, and, you know, it will-

    3. SPSpeaker50:37

       Yeah.

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam50:37

       ... 60% of their population is young. N- I think more than a third of the world's under-25 population is going to be in Africa-

    5. SPSpeaker50:46

       Yeah

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam50:47

       ... which is an opportunity and a big challenge. And we sitting over there as a top technological institute of the, uh, you know, DNA of IIT Madras, have to address that, uh, o- uh, harness that opportunity, and also meet the challenges. That, that is definitely the vision. Of course, like, the strong undergraduate and postgraduate education, uh, will continue, because that is our foundational part, component of, of, uh, this campus, and, uh, you know, all the IITs. So that will continue, but our vision is to look at it... Because we have the chance to do it in 2024 and beyond, to look at it, um, interdisciplinar- in an interdisciplinary way. And like I was saying before, cross-cutting AI, ML, data science-

    7. SPSpeaker51:38

       Yeah

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam51:38

       ... and so on into it. Keep this 50%, you know, students' choice of, uh, courses and things like that, inherently inbuilt into the curriculum itself. So and, and overall, the student experience want to mirror, uh, both in terms of aspiration, in terms of depth of, uh, what they do, creativity, et cetera, with this. So in the first, um, uh, month or so when we had a chance to talk a lot about this, we called that a small but mighty campus, and I think that is what we want to, uh, look at going forward as well.

    9. SPSpeaker52:17

       Interesting.

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam52:18

        And, uh, other aspect is, again, the, the strand that is being really pushed here in IIT Madras is about certificate programs and professional skilling kind of activity. Obviously, the need in Africa is humongous for this. So to pull that also into the pic- And we've already done that. We've already, in this year and half, done a ton of this kind of professional skilling certificate kind of, uh, programs over there. So build out that, um, vertical as well. So broadly, this is where we are now.

    11. SPSpeaker52:54

        Oh, nice. I just want to, uh, share that this is... First of all, it's extremely inspirational, uh, that everything is being built from scratch. We're getting to see it. Um, uh, we've heard stories of how many years back IIT Madras was a small campus-

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam53:07

        Yeah

    13. SPSpeaker53:07

        ... and in a transit campus, and it took so many years to, uh, get here. And then doing the whole thing again in a short time with the same kind of vision, it's really inspirational.

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam53:18

        So we were, in a sense... Uh, this campus, we had the support from, uh, Germany, right? You, you, you remember that, in our initial years-

    15. SPSpeaker53:27

        I was, I was not born, so I don't remember it first-hand, but-

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam53:30

        [chuckles] Not right

    17. SPSpeaker53:31

        ... drop stories.

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam53:32

        Not right. Actually, not I. Yeah.

    19. SPSpeaker53:34

        Yeah.

    20. PAPreeti Aghalayam53:34

        Because '59 to, I think, uh, early '70s is when-

    21. SPSpeaker53:39

        So the last German professors would have left maybe in '75?

    22. PAPreeti Aghalayam53:43

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker53:43

        '80?

    24. PAPreeti Aghalayam53:43

        Something like that. No, not '80. It was in the early '70s. So... And I think that's, it's, that has been great for us, right? Our strength in engineering derives possibly from those early activities from the Germans in our-

    25. SPSpeaker54:00

        Yeah

    26. PAPreeti Aghalayam54:00

        ... campus. So we have to do this. We have to go forward and do this, um, oh, and in a region that-

    27. SPSpeaker54:08

        Uh-huh

    28. PAPreeti Aghalayam54:08

        ... the opportunity is just phenomenal. We can't deny that. So I, I, I think that's the idea.

    29. SPSpeaker54:14

        I... You know, as you're saying it, I, I remember you were a student here, so you can give me the perspective. At the very least-

    30. PAPreeti Aghalayam54:20

        Yeah
20. 55:55 – 1:01:50

    Chemical Engineering: A Versatile Field

    1. SPSpeaker55:55

       to answer it: How is chemical engineering different from chemistry? [chuckles] And also, my least favorite question of all time, but we do get it, is chemical engineering safe for girls?

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam56:04

       It's extremely safe for girls. I mean, it's a ni- especially in the degree like this, I mean, there's nothing, nothing is [chuckles] uh, you know, uh, there in the program that is, uh, skewed towards men in any way, and especially chemical engineering. Uh-

    3. SPSpeaker56:22

       I don't know why people ask this.

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam56:23

       No, it's... So there is a, uh, the biggest conference for chemical engineers across the world, is this one thing that happens annually in the US, and even when I was a grad student in the US, I remember that we would be... we wouldn't be 50%, women wouldn't be 50% represented. It would be lower, 20, 25, something like that. Maybe even less, uh, if I, if I was to be honest. But now, a few years ago, I went, it's just, it's exploded. There are plenty of women, uh, in chemical engineering now, and it, you know, it's, uh, I don't even think that needs to be a question anymore.

    5. SPSpeaker57:01

       Yeah, uh, so parents ask this for chemical engineering and ocean engineering, uh, and I, I don't know why.

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam57:07

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker57:07

       I think their impression maybe stuck 20, twen- 30 years back.

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam57:11

       So even shop floors, right? In, uh, you know, if you, if you're looking aspirationally for a job on a shop floor, then maybe you should question: What is the gender representation on a shop floor of a big chemical plant-

    9. SPSpeaker57:24

       Yeah

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam57:25

        ... or a automotive, uh, plant, et cetera? But even there, the winds of change are there, uh, especially in Chennai. If you see, there are plants that are... I think there is a couple of plants that are entirely women.

    11. SPSpeaker57:36

        Yeah.

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam57:37

        Right?

    13. SPSpeaker57:37

        Yeah.

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam57:37

        Uh, and things like that.

    15. SPSpeaker57:38

        Yeah.

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam57:38

        So I don't think we should, uh, worry so much about it. Now, what is chemical engineering? Is a good question. Definitely, we have our roots in industrial chemistry, but it's a very general, broad-based engineering discipline. Um, and it's not new. It has been there for, uh, maybe its name wasn't given as chemical engineering, but it's there from, you know, prehistoric, you can say. Fire is a... It's a chemical reaction, as you know. Making of all, uh, uh, uh, uh, products, including anything you can touch-

    17. SPSpeaker58:14

        Yeah

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam58:14

        ... a chemical engineer has been involved on this. Making of this table, definitely the titanium for, for-

    19. SPSpeaker58:20

        Yeah

    20. PAPreeti Aghalayam58:20

        ... this, uh, MacBook, uh, that, that is there. So, uh, of course, the oil and gas, uh, industry is, is essentially refining everything is, um, chemical engineering processes, for sure. Materials, old materials, new materials, all of this is chemical engineering. The pharmaceutical industry, anything biochemical, so also has a lot of chemical engineering principles that are over there. Um, energy, if you think about, is a lot of chemical engineering, especially when you're looking at new vistas, uh, in energy, renewable energy, things like that. And my own area of carbon, uh, a recent area of carbon dioxide capture and so on, also very strong. It's a stronghold of, uh, chemical engineering, so to speak. Also, we are the oldest repositories of data. Chemical plants have, uh, fertilizer plants-

    21. SPSpeaker59:14

        Lots of process data.

    22. PAPreeti Aghalayam59:15

        Yeah, we have ton of data. So analyzing data and all the entire field of data science, uh, and so on, is also something that is very inherently, uh, I, I, I think, a, a, a, uh, attractive one for a chemical engineer, and vice versa also.

    23. SPSpeaker59:33

        Mm.

    24. PAPreeti Aghalayam59:33

        So I think it's a very inherently, I would say, interdisciplinary type of area. Principles cross-cut with lot of other, uh, engineering, uh, disciplines. Contributions-wise, everything, ev- everywhere you can.

    25. SPSpeaker59:49

        If I were a student of chemical engineering, I would learn about, uh, process flows, uh, energy... I'm just taking it from-

    26. PAPreeti Aghalayam59:57

        Okay

    27. SPSpeaker59:57

        ... what you've said. Energy, um, process flows, energy, fluid dynamics.

    28. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:00:03

        Yeah, fluid dynamics-

    29. SPSpeaker1:00:04

        Um-

    30. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:00:04

        ... definitely. Reactions.
21. 1:01:50 – 1:03:08

    Research Areas in Chemical Engineering

    1. SPSpeaker1:01:50

       can I ask you, what are your research areas?

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:01:52

       Sure. So I work in an area that's called chemical reaction engineering. Um, definitely a little bit of chemistry is involved. My dad was a chemistry professor-

    3. SPSpeaker1:02:01

       Oh, sure

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:02:01

       ... so I don't shy away from that, uh, so much. Um, but I've worked on a technique called underground coal gasification for many years. I worked with combustion systems, uh, during my PhD and postdoc a lot. And I work in soot and carbon black, uh, production as well. Many years also in automotive emissions and how to control them, uh, from I, from IC engine, uh, type of deployments. Uh, in recent times, my group has been working in, uh, carbon dioxide capture and routes for, uh, ensuring that any process can be made more, uh, friendly from a carbon dioxide emission perspective.

    5. SPSpeaker1:02:45

       As you're saying this, I'm just thinking, because you mentioned when we started talking about chemical engineering, you s- spoke about how fire-

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:02:50

       Yeah

    7. SPSpeaker1:02:50

       ... is chemical engineering, or, or like a lot of it is. And you don't call it fire, do you? You call it combustion, which is the same.

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:02:57

       Yeah, exactly.

    9. SPSpeaker1:02:58

       Uh, and a lot of what you ex- described are just around, uh, combustion as a process.

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:03:03

        Exactly. Even rocket fuel is essentially [chuckles] that, uh, so we are there in that also.

22. 1:03:08 – 1:09:43

    Innovative Teaching Methods

    1. SPSpeaker1:03:08

       Nice. Uh, you also take, uh, two very interesting courses. One is Play to Learn, and one is on research skills. Would love to learn a little bit more on this.

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:03:15

       So this Play to Learn, we started, uh, my colleague, uh, Mr. Karthik, and I started because we felt that we were looking at ways to enrich engineering classrooms. So they, they can be so boring, and we are losing, we are losing our audience so quickly, and we know that games are a good way to capture their, uh, attention and interest. But we struggled with designing games across the board, right? Like, you know, you, you said fluid mechanics. How to go into a fluid mechanics class and give a set of games that the faculty can use that will, uh, engage the students better? We said, "How do we do this?" We said, "What is the power of, uh, the IIT experience?" It's the students, essentially. So we offered this course where students would... elective course, where students will come and for a topic or a course of their choice, it could be something that they found interesting or something that they found boring, and they'd sit around and design games, card games, board games, or online, you know, uh, mobile, uh, type of games, et cetera, to enhance their classroom experience. So we generated so many awesome ideas, um, during the years that we were offering small classes. It's a small, sort of a niche elective, uh, GN elective, so small classes, but it, it was really fun, uh, to do. And I only stopped because now I'm in, uh, Zanzibar, and it's hard to, uh, manage that.

    3. SPSpeaker1:04:48

       It's a very interesting idea. I, I guess, um, yeah, I think a lot of disciplines, um, not just engineering, right? Like, even in other fields where it becomes too technical-

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:04:56

       Yeah

    5. SPSpeaker1:04:57

       ... where it goes too deep, there is a sort of like a drop in attention-

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:05:01

       Yeah

    7. SPSpeaker1:05:02

       ... that the professors have to work with. Like, they can't, they can't say that we won't go deep.

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:05:07

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker1:05:07

       You can't avoid the-

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:05:08

        Right

    11. SPSpeaker1:05:08

        ... so-called boring parts, and yet you have to keep your class engaged and move them-

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:05:13

        Yeah, and case studies and discussion-

    13. SPSpeaker1:05:15

        Yeah

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:05:15

        ... type of activities that they can do, which are also very hard to do in engineering. Um, in my own classes, I would do this thing called discussion forum online on an app that I, I've been using, and that was the real... That was really the most fun thing, because, okay, facts, I have to give them some facts, but I can quickly summarize the facts and give it to you, and you read it, or you go through some video about it. But engaging with you, what does that fact mean? How do you sort of explore deeper with that fact into an application? That is the most interesting thing, but it is very hard to do ac- across... Day after day, to do this day after day is, I think, um-

    15. SPSpeaker1:06:00

        Yeah

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:06:00

        ... it's challenge.

    17. SPSpeaker1:06:01

        Yeah. And the other course we were talking about was the research skills course.

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:06:05

        Yeah. Uh, so this course, it's a small, few, I think it's just three credits or so. Uh, we introduced that a few years ago, because from the Office of Global Engagement, Professor Raghu and I introduced it.... and this is, uh, mostly for international students in our international interdisciplinary master's program, and the joint, uh, master's with Kathmandu University. So our joint master's, uh, students are- they spend the first year in Kathmandu, and then they come over here. So we needed this to be a course that would be offered, uh, sometime in the second ma- semester of their master's for either group of, uh, students, so that when they ... Because for- th- they didn't know what their training would be, but when they went into their MTech project, they would have some idea of how to do literature search, what were ... what are good sources, reliable sources of scientific information. And you just don't pick up some unverified, uh, information and things like that. How do you organize all the scientific literature, um, so that you can, you know, you can form a, you can bu- bubble up a research problem, um, statement out of it and develop a methodology for it? So how are some pre-skills for doing it?

    19. SPSpeaker1:07:28

        Have these ideas changed over the years with the invent of AI tools like ChatGPT and Claude, and Perplexity?

    20. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:07:35

        Yeah, I ... It's become, I think, different, and it, it's, it's helped us. We still have to do the hard work of sitting and ex- uh, reading, reading a lot, screening through lots of scientific papers, et cetera. But I think it's expanded our ability to do this.

    21. SPSpeaker1:07:54

        Yeah.

    22. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:07:54

        Um, you know, of course, you can trace it from the time when we had to physically go to the library, take bound volumes, and photocopy them-

    23. SPSpeaker1:08:02

        Yeah

    24. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:08:03

        ... to when you were getting those PDFs and, uh, online repositories, uh, but you had to s- search them yourself, to now when you can use ... I use Research Rabbit sometimes, and just ... It, it just expands out the search for you in a way that, uh, some parts of, some mundane parts of your literature search are removed, and you're right, it's made more efficient. So definitely it's not markedly changed, uh, how the, the, uh, the activity operates, but we can be more efficient, which means we can do more. So they can read more papers-

    25. SPSpeaker1:08:41

        Right

    26. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:08:42

        ... and they can get more perspective.

    27. SPSpeaker1:08:43

        And probably, like, the timeframe has shrunk.

    28. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:08:45

        Yeah.

    29. SPSpeaker1:08:45

        I remember someone on the podcast talking about ... I, I- was it Professor, uh, Ravindra? I can't remember. Uh, but he said that in his undergrad-

    30. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:08:54

        Yeah
23. 1:09:43 – 1:17:59

    Gender Ratio in Academia

    1. SPSpeaker1:09:43

       times, I wanna ask you, um, w- why should we care about gender ratio in general, and what can be done to improve the gender ratio on, uh, on a place like IIT?

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:09:53

       Sure. So I think good questions. First of all, it's 20% undergraduate population is of women. When we look at our research scholars, our numbers are much healthier, um, at least a little bit healthier. We are at 25, 30%-

    3. SPSpeaker1:10:09

       Okay

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:10:09

       ... uh, women, which means that f- out of the 3,000 PhD scholars you have on campus, you have 1,000 of them, a third of them being, uh, women, which is percentage-wise, not bad, but number-wise, that's phenomenal. So you have 1,000 women PhD scholars who are at the edge of the known and unknown, right? Because every PhD is exploring-

    5. SPSpeaker1:10:33

       Meaning something new, yeah

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:10:34

       ... new on, on their own, and-

    7. SPSpeaker1:10:37

       Yeah

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:10:37

       ... I think they are, uh, there is a potential for these women to be really top ... Of course, the men also, the 2,000 men also, but also these women to be top-notch academics, absolutely successful, uh, researchers, and so on. And I'm proud that our institute is cultivating, um, the, this kind of including, uh, uh, women in, into the equation, uh, in this way. Now, of course, we have to represent ourselves. We have to be represented better. We're 50% of the population. We belong to the same species. If you look at what is needed for, uh, success in academia, there is really no gendering that is, uh, you know, uh, necessary of this. So all the skills, you have to be intellectually very sharp, and so on. You have to be dedicated and disciplined. You have to be passionate about research. None of these is more, uh, you know, uh, stronghold of men than women.

    9. SPSpeaker1:11:40

       Yeah.

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:11:40

        So it doesn't make sense that we are so underrepresented.

    11. SPSpeaker1:11:45

        Also, adding to the fact that, um, uh, at a school level, performance of women now is-

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:11:51

        Is pretty very good

    13. SPSpeaker1:11:52

        ... higher than performance of men-

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:11:54

        Yeah, and the-

    15. SPSpeaker1:11:54

        ... in terms of grades

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:11:55

        ... uh, outside IIT, if you go, even in engineer- even in mechanical engineering, like, we have good number of, uh, young women studying mechanical engineering in, at least in Tamil Nadu, in engineering, uh, colleges outside. So the, the, the ... We need to ... It's something to think about for sure, for the IITs about, you know, are we- is there something that we are doing incorrectly, so to speak, that our numbers-

    17. SPSpeaker1:12:22

        It came up in one of the earlier conversations, that the coaching process is a little-... because you have to leave home, you have to-- I mean, not, not everyone, but a lot of the students leave home, go to a hostel, stay there for many years away from home, and maybe that's something that's sort of exclusionary.

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:12:39

        Yeah. No, there are many such barriers. Even, uh, it costs a lot, and parents have to sometime ... You know, you, you-- we've talked about this before. Parents ask the question, "This investment, what is it going to come up?" So, uh, it, it's a, it's a complex problem, and we don't have to, to go crazy about, uh, about it, I think. But, you know, bit by bit, we sort of create an environment that is welcoming, and they will come. Like it has, uh-- like has happened very quietly. Like, you all never, uh, uh, mention it in many of the interviews. For our research scholars, obviously there's something we are doing right, that this is increasing. The percentage and numbers of women is increasing. And when they go out and become successful, the numbers of, and percentages of women faculty will naturally increase over-

    19. SPSpeaker1:13:32

        Of course

    20. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:13:32

        ... the course of time. So I think it's important. We should be conscious of it, for sure.

    21. SPSpeaker1:13:38

        In that same vein, and also, uh, uh, my daughter is in class, uh, six now, so I mean, great for her that she's growing up in a world which is more inclusive, uh, and, um, grateful for the strides taken by ITs in that. Uh, in that same vein, you're the first woman director of any IT campus. I mean, congratulations, it's an achievement, but also, like, it's a little bit of a national shame that it's taken so long. Um, can I ask you the question about the percentage of women in faculty positions?

    22. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:14:07

        Yeah. So again, that is small at this, uh, point of time. I think, uh, a couple of years ago, I was part of this GATI program that we did, Gender Advancement for Transforming Institutions, a government of India program I was coordinating. And it was very nice. I, I really like that program because the ask was to get all the data, like, collect everything, data about everything that you're doing in the campus, um, and gender segregated, in a gender-segregated way. For example, faculty, when we say faculty recruitment, you have X number of applications in, uh, department Y, collect that. H- what percentage was women? Next level they get to where they're interviewed-

    23. SPSpeaker1:14:55

        Mm.

    24. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:14:55

        -get... Collect that number, what percentage is women? And so on and so forth.

    25. SPSpeaker1:14:59

        Okay.

    26. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:14:59

        So you get to study some trends of, first of all, is there a good, uh, percentage in step one, which is receiving applications? And then going forward in the selection process and so on, is that-

    27. SPSpeaker1:15:11

        Right

    28. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:15:11

        ... consistently carrying forward? So the ask, again, apart, uh, uh, after collecting this data, was to reflect upon it as a community, as, as leadership. Sit and reflect upon what does this d- data, uh, say to you? Do you see any need to change your policy? Uh, obviously, the answer is a little bit yes. Uh, and what specific way do you think, uh, po- your policies need to be s- amended, so that, uh, next time we do this analysis, there is an imp- What is improvement for you? What is a performance success metric for you? And, uh, h- when should we evaluate? Things like that. So a ve- very reflective look inward. You know, don't worry about, um, anybody else telling you you should be this or that.

    29. SPSpeaker1:15:56

        Yeah.

    30. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:15:56

        Uh, for example, you know that in certain disciplines, we're not even getting applications.
24. 1:17:59 – 1:22:53

    Reflecting on Academic Experiences

    1. SPSpeaker1:17:59

       Uh, I, [chuckles] I wanna reflect on the idea that in your academic and professional journey, you have gone through many repetition- reputed institutes, IIT Madras, there's IIT Bombay, there's MIT in the middle. Um, how are these places different?... and how are they similar? Can you just written-

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:18:14

       So for me, I think the academic experience, uh, you know, just the focus on being really strong and academically focused, um, is the same across these institutions that I have been in. But if I was to call out certain things, I'll start with maybe MIT. Uh, MIT, there is this corridor you walk down, and they have photos of all their Nobel laureates on either side, which is, uh, k- intimidating, inspire ... Intimidating maybe the first few days, but inspiring after that. That, you know, l- look, I am here in a place that has, um, brought out this kind of depth of, uh, scientific talent, and somebody has found it, um, acceptable [chuckles] to include me into, a, uh, include me in this story as well in some small way. So that was a little bit different. That's not a feeling that, um, is in- uh, at least at that level, not immediately, uh, coming up in the other places, like University of Rochester. Very strong in the chemical engineering PhD, uh, master's program that I was in, and there are some stalwarts over there, but the level was one notch higher, uh, in MIT. Now, uh, if I look at in terms of the energy of the young people, right? Energy of the young people, I love the IIT Bombay and IIT Madras experience a lot more, um, than these other institution, including MIT, that are, uh, abroad. So there is a certain keenness, I think, uh, to, to the way young people are ... Maybe the hunger is, is different here, at least today, um, in the IITs than in the other places. So for me, that has been, uh, really good and enjoyable. And IIT Bombay, I remember I was a, a young assistant, uh, professor, and you go into the class, there's 120 students, and they're not going to give you a break, right? They are d- they, they're smart. They know they're smart. They will do their best to try and trip you up. You know, it's almost like, uh, of course, not the back benchers who are just sort of relaxing, but those in the front, their entire sole goal and focus is, "How can I trip her up? Somehow ask something. At the very least, make sure that there's no, uh, nothing further useful comes out of-

    3. SPSpeaker1:20:40

       Yeah

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:20:41

       ... this class," and stuff like.

    5. SPSpeaker1:20:42

       Yeah.

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:20:42

       Which was very... It was a good challenge-

    7. SPSpeaker1:20:44

       Yeah

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:20:45

       ... to have, right? So I would, it, it is, I really enjoyed it, and the teaching experience, you know? To turn it back at them and say, "You know, why don't we do X, Y, Z?" and things like that. So the, the undergrad teaching experience at IIT Bombay versus IIT Madras has been similar. Uh, very fun, both, uh, e- extremely fun, uh, for the most part. But I have to say that as an alumnus of IIT Madras, my husband's also an alumnus of IIT Madras, I... It's, and I've now been, after coming back here, um, it's been, what, 15 years over here, and this big opportunity to do this offshore. Who thought, I mean, we'll have an offshore campus in Africa, and IIT Madras will jump and say, "Let's do this," and they, they will give me the responsibility, uh, uh, for this? And so looking at all of this, this place is just beyond doubt, fantastic, um, in terms of how we are setting aspirations, changing the paradigm entirely of what a higher education institution-

    9. SPSpeaker1:21:52

       Institution

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:21:52

        ... can do and be, and, you know, h- how, how it... What is its place in, in the, in the country, I was saying, but now the world, it says. So I, I think this place is just remarkable.

    11. SPSpeaker1:22:05

        Amazing. Thank you. And of course, your students at IIT Madras Zanzibar are very lucky for you have, to have gone through this journey and now benefit from, uh, your insights. Amazing.

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:22:15

        Oh, they are amazing. They are... You know, it's, there's that Monday morning feeling, right? Like, if you wake up on Monday morning and-

    13. SPSpeaker1:22:22

        I feel like going to work.

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:22:23

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker1:22:23

        Yeah.

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:22:23

        Like, this Monday morning, I was happy, uh, waking up and coming because that was... I could meet you. But that feeling in Zanzibar is a big part because of the students. They're just, they're just remarkable.

    17. SPSpeaker1:22:36

        Very agreeable.

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:22:37

        Pioneers, right? Because, you know, they've put their faith in something, right, like something that doesn't even e- it didn't even exist before they took their first, uh, step, seems.

    19. SPSpeaker1:22:49

        Amazing. I'm taking so much of your time. Last two questions, I promise.

25. 1:22:53 – 1:26:11

    Running: A Passion and a Meditation

    1. SPSpeaker1:22:53

       Uh, one is that you're a runner, uh, and everybody I spoke to, I said, uh, "I'm meeting Professor Preeti Aghalayam," she's- they said that "She's a runner. You should talk about it." Uh, very interesting. Uh, how did you get into it, uh, and how does it help you in your professional career? [chuckles]

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:23:08

       So running, I'm passionate about lots of things, and running is, uh, definitely one of them. I've been running for a long time. Um, I think definitely remember since the age of 10, in some way, shape, or form, uh, being a runner. Uh, I've always been quite tiny, so through school, um, I was sprinting, and it, it worked, and, uh, that was a really fun thing. I wouldn't run anything more than 200 meters. Even 200 meters, I thought, was long, um, in those days. But subsequently, when I... Here also, when I was a student here, I was running a lot, but I was also playing basketball. I make a joke sometimes saying, "I didn't know I wouldn't grow any taller than this, and that's why I got into basketball." But it's not entirely true, because my family is, uh, fairly vertically challenged, so it was obvious as a-

    3. SPSpeaker1:23:59

       Yeah

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:24:00

       ... budding scientist that [chuckles] it wasn't going to be remarkably different for me. Um, but, um, in grad school, I started running a little bit longer.

    5. SPSpeaker1:24:09

       Okay.

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:24:10

       Like 5K or so. And it was only after childbirths that I really got into half-marathons and marathons, and-... you know, I was also settling in as an independent researcher around the same time, and, uh, there is a reflectiveness to a long run, uh, that I think is great for, uh, sort of centering you and, you know, also for, definitely for a research mindset. But in now, in my current role, for the challenges of an administrative position like this, that nobody can give a rule book for, you know? So I-

    7. SPSpeaker1:24:48

       So is it like a meditative experience, or is it like-

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:24:49

       Yeah, it definitely is. Um, it definitely is. Um, I enjoy it, and, you know, you're, you're putting yourself, uh, through something, then when your body meets the challenge, it-

    9. SPSpeaker1:25:03

       Mm

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:25:03

        ... it definitely feels good. Um, it's also given me the chance to travel. Now, it's a little hard, but I used to travel for races. Um, go to Hyderabad, you know, go to Mumbai for the Mumbai Marathon. Um, I've been to, I think, uh, uh, Coimbatore, and so one place here, Ch- Chennai Trail Marathon, it was called. It's about a couple of hours from Chennai. Such a beautiful place, completely unexplored. It's like Grand Canyon is no patch on this place, uh, and it's literally two hours drive from Chennai. Nobody knows about it.

    11. SPSpeaker1:25:38

        Nice.

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:25:39

        I've run, uh, the Chicago and the London marathons, and those were also really great traveling experiences as well.

    13. SPSpeaker1:25:47

        Nice. [exhales] I think I'm too old to get into it, but maybe someday [chuckles] I'll try.

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:25:53

        No, it doesn't have to be in any big way, uh, and each of us has a different thing, I think.

    15. SPSpeaker1:25:59

        Ma'am, the maximum running I do is with my daughter from our door to the place where her bus picks her up every day for school. [chuckles]

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:26:06

        [chuckles] That bus-

    17. SPSpeaker1:26:07

        Yeah

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:26:07

        ... cold bus drop is definitely important.

    19. SPSpeaker1:26:10

        Yeah. Uh, okay,

26. 1:26:11 – 1:27:50

    Laptop Stickers: A Peek into Personality

    1. SPSpeaker1:26:11

       last question. I'm looking at your laptop, and it has a lot of stickers, and I'm very curious, can you take us through this?

    2. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:26:17

       So, okay, first of all, every time I get a new laptop, I try to make sure I have some stickers that are me on it. Uh, this time, I taught one part of a Chemistry for Data Scientists course in Zanzibar, so I was thinking a lot about chemistry the whole time. So it turned out coincidentally, that my stickers pile had a lot of chemistry stuff. So there is Schrodinger's cat-

    3. SPSpeaker1:26:44

       Oh, okay

    4. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:26:44

       ... here, and this is just a generic chemistry sticker. This is a mole, a concept of a mole, and also the animal, uh, mole. Uh, and I like a lot of jokes. This one says, "I think you're overreacting," which is, like, a very-

    5. SPSpeaker1:27:01

       Chemical engineering joke.

    6. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:02

       Yeah, and it's a geeky kind of a joke.

    7. SPSpeaker1:27:05

       Yeah.

    8. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:05

       Um, so it's stuff like that.

    9. SPSpeaker1:27:07

       It's-

    10. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:08

        It's whatever I bunch it by a pile from, uh-

    11. SPSpeaker1:27:11

        Nice

    12. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:11

        ... whatever, and I put it over there.

    13. SPSpeaker1:27:13

        Then-

    14. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:13

        I think it makes me-

    15. SPSpeaker1:27:15

        Is that a go... Is that a-

    16. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:16

        Go big

    17. SPSpeaker1:27:16

        ... is that a lab coat?

    18. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:17

        Yeah, [chuckles] it says, "Go big or go home." That's what it says, which-

    19. SPSpeaker1:27:21

        Um

    20. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:21

        ... I don't know if I'm entirely on board with that, but I don't know it was a sticker.

    21. SPSpeaker1:27:26

        Nice. So-

    22. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:27

        Oxygen and magnesium, you know this, 'cause I taught a lot about the periodic table, so it was also-

    23. SPSpeaker1:27:32

        And also, and, mm.

    24. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:34

        Also, energy.

    25. SPSpeaker1:27:35

        Nice. Thank you so much, Professor. Um, I, I, I guess it's been more than an hour now, so very grateful that you gave us the time, uh, and, uh... Yeah, please like, share, subscribe, drop a comment. Any parting words, ma'am?

27. 1:27:50 – 1:28:59

    Closing Thoughts and Encouragement

    1. PAPreeti Aghalayam1:27:50

       Uh, it has been a pleasure talking to you. I genuinely didn't notice the time go by. Uh, for me, I think what is very remarkable is all of you all as, uh, IIT Madras students, uh, how you find a path that is your own, and you're brave, and you take it. So I'm very proud of you for, uh, what you do, and grateful that you thought of me. And, you know, I hope, uh, the message for younger IITians is definitely to follow in paths like yours. Find that, uh, and go after it. [upbeat musical jingle]

Episode duration: 1:28:59