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#1 Communication Expert: How To Become Someone Everyone Loves Talking To | Vinh Giang

Vinh Giang is the internet's most influential communication coach. This episode breaks down why you're only as good as you can communicate, how the five components of voice can transform the way people perceive you instantly, and why the…

Vinh GiangguestCodie Sanchezhost

Nov 12, 20261h 0mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

65 min read · 12,616 words

0:00 – 0:59
Introduction: You're Only as Good as You Can Communicate
1. VGVinh Giang
  You're only as good as you can communicate. The reason why people interrupt you is because you're easy to interrupt. Maybe there's too much placator. Maybe there's too much, "Oh, no, it's okay. Anything's fine. You know, I- I'm okay with that." That's why people don't take you seriously, because you don't sound serious. Learn how to play it with more conviction.
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  My guest is Vinh Giang, the internet's most influential communication coach, who's here today to break down the world's greatest communicators, how to signal confidence and intelligence so that you can copy them, and how to speak, gesture, and listen, so no matter what you're saying, people are tuned in.
3. VGVinh Giang
  If you think messy, you'll communicate messy. Often the people who ramble are smart. They have so much information, but they've never practiced prioritization. You need to practice thinking through what you want to say and go through the process of that. So you've gotta clean up the thinking first. The clearer you can think, the clearer you can speak.
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  Can you teach yourself confidence?
5. VGVinh Giang
  This might change the way you think about it. The reason you're so good at being shy is because... [cards shuffling]
0:59 – 3:41
The Magician's Secret: Why Great Skills Mean Nothing Without Communication
1. CSCodie Sanchez
  You spent years performing magic.
2. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
3. CSCodie Sanchez
  Now you are a communication expert.
4. VGVinh Giang
  [laughs]
5. CSCodie Sanchez
  What can a magician teach you about controlling a room?
6. VGVinh Giang
  Well, the most powerful thing about the world of magic, first of all, there's multiple layers. The first layer is that as a magician, you learn that when you see a piece of magic, it looks impossible.
7. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
8. VGVinh Giang
  But then when you work out how it's done, it's disappointing because why? It's so easy. That's why there's this quote in the world of magic, they say, "A magician guards an empty treasure box," 'cause there's nothing in there besides disappointment. So the first layer that it taught me is that no matter how amazing something is, whether it's in business, in communication, anything, the solution's actually easy. It's actually not complicated. So we tend to use complexity as an excuse not to do something.
9. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
10. VGVinh Giang
  So that's, first of all, the most inspiring thing about magic that I learned. And then in the world of magic, I learned that just being technically great at something doesn't mean that you are great at it, because you might be a 10 out of 10 with your technical skill as a magician, but if you are three out of 10 with your communication, they don't see you as a 10 out of 10.
11. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm-mm.
12. VGVinh Giang
  They see you as a three out of 10. You're only as good as you can communicate. So I learned that even as a magician, I need to be able to communicate my value, and we call it showmanship. So magicians call it showmanship. So a magician with no showmanship, unfortunately, is invisible.
13. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
14. VGVinh Giang
  Not the cool magic kind. The more, "Ah, people don't see the gifts I have, the talents I have." So I had to learn how to be technically great, and to learn how to shine the technical ability.
15. CSCodie Sanchez
  Do you think that that's true in almost any profession, that you are only as good as your ability to communicate?
16. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, because I- I almost became an accountant.
17. CSCodie Sanchez
  [laughs]
18. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, I did, almost, almost fulfilled the Asian prophecy. Yeah, 'cause I- I- I quit university six months before I graduated, and I was doing commerce and law.
19. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
20. VGVinh Giang
  And I did that to become a magician. But even when I was thinking I was gonna become an accountant, I, I was taught the same thing, is that it's the accountants who could communicate their value the best that became the partners. And the technically brilliant ones get stuck in the back room as bookkeepers at times, right? So it- it- it, again, is, is that same thing you experience in every industry where it's like, "Ah, damn it, Barry got the promotion. Shit, Barry's not even as good as me." Right? But again, it's because you're competing technically, whereas Barry might be a five with his technical skill, but man, he's a nine with his communication.
21. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
22. VGVinh Giang
  So, so you don't wanna be in that situation either because then, then your partners or the boss will look at you and be like, "Ah, that person's all sizzle, no steak." It's both.
23. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah.
24. VGVinh Giang
  You've gotta be good at both.
25. CSCodie Sanchez
  So how do you do that? If you wanna be a 10 out of 10 at communicating, do you have a strategy that you give people who wanna get better at communication but feel like they
3:41 – 7:31
The Three-Step Self-Awareness System: Record, Review, Repeat
1. CSCodie Sanchez
  aren't great at it?
2. VGVinh Giang
  The first thing you gotta do is self-awareness.
3. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah.
4. VGVinh Giang
  So y- you have to know where you are. The biggest problem I see in a lot of my students, Codie, is that they don't know where they are. They don't know what their non-functional behaviors are.
5. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm-hmm.
6. VGVinh Giang
  So what I mean by non-functional, at the most basic level, you've got visual non-functional behaviors, then you've got auditory, vocal non-functional behaviors. Those are behaviors that add no value to your communication. So the auditory ones, the examples of that are the um-ing and ah-ing, using filler words, words that add no value, like, so, do you know what I mean?
7. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
8. VGVinh Giang
  Those used to be mine. You've got to become aware of all of those. Then you've got to become aware of what are your visual non-functional behaviors. But the only way to be aware of that is with a really simple three-step process. You have to record a video of yourself. It's so basic, but you have to record a video of yourself. Speak for at least five minutes on anything you'd like. Your favorite person, your favorite place, your favorite food. Has to be impromptu. Then once you get that video, review it in three different ways.
9. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
10. VGVinh Giang
  The first one, tease out the auditory components by only listening to the audio. Turn the sound on max, put your phone down, listen. And when you isolate the audio, as you listen to yourself, well, what do you like about your voice? What don't you like about your voice? And when you've got five minutes of that, you'll hear things in your voice you've never heard before.
11. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
12. VGVinh Giang
  You go, "Oh," so I used to do a lip smack. So I used to... I'd do that a lot because when I got nervous, my mouth feels dry, then I kept smacking my lips, and I could hear that through that process. Write down everything you like and everything you don't like.
13. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
14. VGVinh Giang
  Second form of review, now turn it on mute. Put it on mute, and then just look at yourself. Now, as you're looking at yourself, what do you see that you don't like? Oh, when I speak, I don't use my hands at all. I just keep my hands by my lap the entire time, right? I'm not moving my face when I speak. I keep adjusting my glasses. That's one of mine. [laughs] So then take notes. What do you like? What don't you like? And then the final one, get it transcribed.
15. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
16. VGVinh Giang
  And once you get it transcribed, put it into AI. What are my non-words? What are my filler words? How is the structure of what I'm saying? Am I rambling? Give me the top five things I can work on when it comes to structure. One iteration of this, you've- Then you just pick one thing you work on vocally, one thing you work on visually, and then one thing you work on with verbal, what you say
17. CSCodie Sanchez
  This is so good. I'm gonna have all of my team do this.
18. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
19. CSCodie Sanchez
  We have all these events we do.
20. VGVinh Giang
  Oh, that's awesome.
21. CSCodie Sanchez
  Well, yeah, we just had one for business owners, and so they come in and we help them, you know, grow their business. We focus on profits-
22. VGVinh Giang
  Mm-hmm
23. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... and decreased owner dependency. But what I've realized is you, you know, some of my best advisors, who I know, like, if I give them to you, Vinh, and you're like, "I wanna grow my profits and I wanna decrease doing this in my business," and you work with them for six months, it'll work.
24. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
25. CSCodie Sanchez
  But maybe when they communicate on a stage, not as strong.
26. VGVinh Giang
  Mm.
27. CSCodie Sanchez
  And so a lot of times the charismatic people aren't always the really technical, good people.
28. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah. So the way I think about it, Codie, is I go, well, voice embodies the instrument.
29. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm-hmm.
30. VGVinh Giang
  Learn how to use the instrument, because it's like you said, the technical people on your team, they've got really good music, really good information, but if you play the music poorly, will the audience perceive it to be great music? Will they perceive it to be profound and insightful and valuable? They won't.
7:31 – 10:13
Imitation, Iteration, Innovation: How to Find Your Communication Style
1. CSCodie Sanchez
  We have a saying which is, uh, if you wanna get good at something that you're not good at right now, you start with imitation, iteration, then innovation.
2. VGVinh Giang
  Oh, I love that. That's so cool.
3. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah, because you-
4. VGVinh Giang
  Awesome framework
5. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... you don't really know good-
6. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
7. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... so you can't innovate quite yet-
8. VGVinh Giang
  Right
9. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... because you don't even have a, a baseline.
10. VGVinh Giang
  Mm.
11. CSCodie Sanchez
  If, if, if you wanted to talk to somebody today to say, "How do you know if your speech or talk or communication-
12. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
13. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... is good versus others?"
14. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
15. CSCodie Sanchez
  Do you have, do you tell people to do something?
16. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah. Well, I mean, just what you said there. The first step was imitation, right? Find three speakers and communicators that you really like, because you already know who you like, and you already know who you don't like. So what you do is, so find three people that you really like and identify the three people that you don't like-
17. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm
18. VGVinh Giang
  ... and just identify with the people you do like, what behaviors do you really enjoy? What makes them really magnetic? So a- as, as you read the book, we break down voice into five components, body language into five components. We break it all down, so once you're aware of all of that, you go, "Oh, I love the way that Codie communicates," right? There's this authority in her voice, but there's still warmth in there. Identify it. It's the melody.
19. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
20. VGVinh Giang
  Right? And the control and, uh, the control and the authority comes from the slow cadence. So as you start to recognize what they are, imitate.
21. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
22. VGVinh Giang
  And then, but you're gonna feel gross when you do it, because people are immediately gonna feel, "Oh, now I'm trying too hard to be like Codie or Mel or Vinh," or whoever your favorite communicator is. If you think like that, you immediately stop the journey of exploration.
23. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
24. VGVinh Giang
  So a part of imitation is explore. Try speaking like me. Try speaking like your, your favorite podcaster, and as you try it, you'll start to learn, oh, I like this, but I don't like this. Take what you like, leave what you don't.
25. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
26. VGVinh Giang
  It... When I did this, I, I had three people I mimicked. Uh, they're not related. This is so ridiculous. It was Derren Brown, a magician from the UK, Les Brown, which is a motivational speaker here in the States, and Brené Brown. [laughs] Not related, but I loved these three.
27. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
28. VGVinh Giang
  So I mimicked them. I took bits and pieces from them, and then I added my own ingredients. So if you break down my communication style, it's a mixture of those three plus me.
29. CSCodie Sanchez
  That's so good.
30. VGVinh Giang
  But that's what you should do. And then the ones you don't like, identify what it is about them that you don't like, and check your own communication for some of that, because sometimes the people that polarize us or throw us off, sometimes we have some of it in us, too. So check that. So that's how you can immediately have a list of things I m- wanna make sure I don't have, and then now you have a list of things to aspire
10:13 – 11:48
The Five Components of Voice: Melody, Tempo, Volume, Tonality, and Pause
1. VGVinh Giang
  to.
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  You've talked about the five components of voice-
3. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... and it's in your new book. Um, what are the five components of, of the voice and the way that we speak that allow us to be better communicators?
5. VGVinh Giang
  It comes from the world of music. So I learned how to use my voice more through a vocal coach. So Ms. Stanley is my vocal coach, and when she first woke me up to the idea of this, there was this beautiful moment. I, I, I, I walked into the music room, and then she was just playing one key on the piano nonstop. S- super frightening. And then she, she just said to me, "How do you feel?" And I said to her, I was like, "Well, well, well, well, nothing, 'cause what the hell are you doing?" And she goes, "Good." And then she plays this beautiful song called, uh, "Mirage d'Amour." Beautiful song, and then she turns around, she goes, "How do you feel?" And I said, "Oh, that, that felt sad. That felt, uh, yeah, it was just like a love song." And she goes, "Good." And then she explained to me, most people go through their entire lives speaking just with one key, right? And she goes, "I'm gonna teach you to speak like this." That lesson was about melody. First component. So the first component of voice is, well, there are so many keys on your voice. However, we get stuck in a default way of speaking, because we learn it from our parents growing up. If we didn't have good people to model, you know, and they just spoke with one note, then we also adopt that, because we don't know any better, right? So, so melody, you've got so many keys in your voice. Explore that. Second one is tempo, rate of speech.
11:48 – 18:58
Why Monotone Kills Your Message and How to Fix It
1. VGVinh Giang
  Again, if you default with melody and you default with rate of speech, now you become very monotone. So if I just spoke at this rate of speech and I really didn't vary it and I kept this monotone, um, probably have people spoken to you like this before, you've already tuned out So you got melody, rate of speech. You can vary that. When you speak faster, it shows passion, enthusiasm, and then when you slow down, it shows control and composure. Which one's better? Neither. You want both. You want all of it, full range. Okay. Melody, rate of speech. Volume. This is vitality. Communicates confidence. So you want to be able to vary that, too, because with volume, for example, think of a scale from zero to 10. When you go really loud with volume, that's a verbal highlight. So if you really, you're sharing some important numbers, if there's one thing you focus on, this is critical, right? So that's a verbal highlight. Or you can use a quiet volume. If there's one thing you grasp, make sure you remember this. Now, what's wild about these vocal foundations is that if you use a louder volume to highlight something and then you stay there, it becomes non-functional.
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm-hmm.
3. VGVinh Giang
  So I, I, I could go from now, say, for example, five to low to highlight, so I can go, I can say, "And listen, if there's one thing you get from this podcast, make sure you understand this." But then if I just stay here now, what started as an auditory highlight is now non-functional. So as you learn melody, as you learn rate of speech, as you learn volume, it's not about which one is best to stay at, it's learning variety is critical to hold people's attention. Okay. Next, tonality. That's the emotion that exists underneath your voice, and that emotion is unlocked through you using your face. So if you don't emote with your face, then there's no emotion in it, because when you shape your face differently, and Vanessa, a mutual friend of ours, is amazing at this because she teaches microexpressions. The more you emote, the more you change the shape of your face, your face is the instrument that as you change the shape, the sound comes out different.
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
5. VGVinh Giang
  That's why people say they can hear a smile, is because the person's smiling, so as they smile, it changes the shape of the mouth, which changes the way the sound comes out.
6. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
7. VGVinh Giang
  And then the final one is pause, which is a critical one, because when you don't pause, you don't give people time to process what you're saying. And when you don't pause, sometimes your mind goes blank because you're racing through what you're saying-
8. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm-hmm
9. VGVinh Giang
  ... and your mouth has outrun your mind. And then when you also pause and become very comfortable with the pause, you start to minimize the ums and the uhs. The ums and the uhs happen because we are afraid of the pause, so we use the ums and the uhs to fill the pause. These five foundations, you can play them an infinite number of ways. And, and, and, and that's what I focus on the first part of the book. So, so when you learn how to play it, oh my gosh, it's like music. You can take five chords and play 1,000 different songs. And there are, th- th- so many problems can be solved so easily if people learn how to use this. I'll, I'll give you an example, Codie. So some people come to me and they say, "Vinh, people don't take me seriously." And I'm like, "Well, that's because you don't look serious and you don't sound serious." Because if, you know, if you, if I always sound like this and I'm always bubbly and I'm always this kind of personality and... Well, that's why people don't take you seriously, because you don't sound serious. The opposite is true. It's like, "I don't know why people take me so seriously. I can't get people to open up around me." Because you sound really serious. You know? So, so it's, it's, so much of it is to do with sound.
10. CSCodie Sanchez
  Quick pause. Something I love about getting to do this show is talking to our guests, and almost everyone I talk to, from investors and founders and authors, started with one thing they were good at. Every one of them then had to make this thing a real business. [laughs] That's where a lot of people stall out. It's the annoying part, the paperwork, the filings, the deadlines. Kinda feels like a second job, and that's what Bizee solves. Bizee handles the whole back office from formation to filings, so your time goes into the part you're actually great at and where all the fun is. Formation starts at $0 plus state fees with Bizee, and when next year's annual report shows up, they handle that for you, too. Bizee and I put together something for you at bizee.com/codie so that you get set up right, or you can hit the link in the show notes. It's so fascinating-
11. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
12. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... because, you know, I've gotten to know some of the great speakers, Tony Robbins, and one of the things I think is fascinating about Tony, for instance-
13. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
14. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... is that he's one of the few speakers I've ever seen that actually uses the full-
15. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, full range
16. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... range.
17. VGVinh Giang
  Oh.
18. CSCodie Sanchez
  Especially on, like, volume.
19. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
20. CSCodie Sanchez
  There's very few speakers who-
21. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
22. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... will scream-
23. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
24. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... on stage or yell.
25. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
26. CSCodie Sanchez
  And if you think about how often you yell or really emote at the high end as an adult-
27. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
28. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... incredibly rare.
29. VGVinh Giang
  Yep.
30. CSCodie Sanchez
  And yet when you do it-
18:58 – 25:56
The Five Components of Body Language: Posture, Gestures, Movement, Facial Expressions, and Eye Contact
1. CSCodie Sanchez
  you?
2. VGVinh Giang
  Well, it, it's five core areas. Uh, you've got your posture, right? And, and, and posture is such a critical thing, and I just love it. The, the, the camera team just fixed their posture-
3. CSCodie Sanchez
  [laughs]
4. VGVinh Giang
  ... the moment I said the word posture. Like, oh, yep.
5. CSCodie Sanchez
  Very.
6. VGVinh Giang
  Mm-hmm.
7. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah.
8. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, I love that. [laughs] Posture is critical. Why? Because your posture introduces you before you introduce yourself.
9. CSCodie Sanchez
  Oof.
10. VGVinh Giang
  And for the longest time, I wasn't ever paying attention to that, right? I, I didn't think much of posture at all. I just... 'Cause when you don't think of it, you, you don't activate it. So posture is number one. The second one is hand gestures. When you don't know what to do with your hands, this is the big one that people struggle with. When you don't know what to do with your hands, a lot of people fall victim then to non-functional hand gestures, which are what? Men, classic hands in the pocket, right? So always hands in the pocket, or men and women, folded arms.
11. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
12. VGVinh Giang
  Right? Or sometimes playing with their hair, right? And then we've also got the classic prayer position, rubbing of the hands now, right? So they're, the hands behind the back, and then sometimes they pair hands behind the back with them rocking back and forth and swaying from side to side. Like, these are all non-functional. Unless you're describing in a story specifically, you're saying, "Oh, you know, when I was about to get on stage, I, I just felt really nervous," now you're visually using that gesture to demonstrate w- how you're feeling. Functional. But if you're just stuck to this the whole time, then that's not effective.
13. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
14. VGVinh Giang
  So I think you've got to learn how to use your hands, and the most foundational forms on how to use your hand gestures, simple, three simple ones to get you started. You've got to know placator. So placator is when your hands are palm open up, facing up. This is a beautiful gesture. Make sure your elbows are away from your body. This is very open and inviting. So if you, your team members were opening a presentation, it's, "Oh, great to see you, everyone." Beautiful gesture. And then if you want authority, op- the opposite. Hands palm face down, right? That gives you more authority visually, and it actually shifts the sound of your voice. Because your body's connected to your voice, and your voice is connected to your body. And then the third one, when you really want authority, point with all your fingers.
15. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
16. VGVinh Giang
  Very strong, right? And then there's a variation of this, which Vanessa disagrees with, which I love, 'cause we have things we disagree about, but it's the pointing. Pointing is a very strong gesture. Now, we wouldn't do it one-on-one 'cause it's very strong.
17. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm-hmm.
18. VGVinh Giang
  But if you're one-to-many, you absolutely can. You can point when you, y- you've gotta make sure we nail this next campaign. Use it, right? At least have the foundational three.
19. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
20. VGVinh Giang
  And then what you wanna do next, if you wanna increase your gesture vocabulary, just like how you can increase your verbal vocabulary, is now start to play charades when you're speaking. Like, you wanna expand your gesture vocabulary? Well, then what does expansion look like, right? If there's something we need to focus on, how can you show that? Right? So then start to expand your own gesture vocabulary so that when you're speaking, your hand gestures now, they support the things you say.
21. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
22. VGVinh Giang
  Otherwise, if you watch me now and I can go... When you use your hand gestures more, it helps support the things that you say as you expand your gesture vocabulary. Which one's better?
23. CSCodie Sanchez
  Oh, the first one.
24. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
25. CSCodie Sanchez
  That's almost painful now that I've seen your full range.
26. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, right?
27. CSCodie Sanchez
  If you feel constrained.
28. VGVinh Giang
  Because it's... People wanna be engaging, but if you wanna be engaging, you've gotta engage in your instrument.
29. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
30. VGVinh Giang
  And you've got voice and body. So most people don't play the instrument at all with their voice, so default volume, default rate, default pitch, default, everything is default. Then also, non-functional behavior is all default. So now if I'm sharing with you the meaning of life like this, you probably won't listen to me, right? So you've gotta learn how to use your hand gestures. Movement.
25:56 – 30:20
Can You Teach Yourself Confidence? The Behavior-Based Answer
1. CSCodie Sanchez
  confidence?
2. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, yeah. I, I believe you can because I had to do it. Like, Codie, English is my third language, so I, I struggled with English for so long, and because I struggled with English for so long, it impacted my confidence, right? I had to go, I had to go to a vocal coach, I had to go to a speech pathologist. I had to, I had to learn all these skills that I have right now. So I definitely was not confident growing up.
3. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
4. VGVinh Giang
  I was super shy, super timid. You know, I think that's part of the reason why now thinking about it, I was probably drawn to magic. I was probably drawn to speaking and being on stages because I, I, I n- I wanna be seen because I was so invisible, because I had low self-esteem and no confidence. Think about shyness. Shyness is a series of behaviors. It is. So we, we could, I, I could, I could be shy now. I remember what it was like. You play a lot smaller. I... You know, shoulders in, hands in, feet very close together, very low volume, no eye contact, and, you know, this is, this is, uh, shy behavior, so. And I can be shy and, and if you think about it, if you are shy right now, this might change the way you think about it. The reason you're so good at being shy is because you've practiced shy behaviors for the last 20 years of your life. That's why you've crushed shy, and it's, you're so good at it. No one needs to tell you what to do. You know how to be shy. Now apply that thinking to confidence. So all you've gotta do is replace those shy behaviors with confident behaviors. And what we spoke about so far, which is so cool because I, I haven't been able to lay out all of it on a podcast before, think of voice, right? Shy is smallness, volume very low, and often no pitch variety, and then, you know, uh, a lot of filler words and, um, a lot of... So what's the opposite of all of that? Stronger levels of volume. You've mastered the quiet volumes. Give me stronger levels of volume. Give me way more melody. Throw some melody in and play. And don't be afraid of the pauses. Three things you can do vocally, immediately will help you sound more confident.
5. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
6. VGVinh Giang
  Visually, posture, shoulders down and back. Again, I, I, I love shouting out Vanessa in this, but again, she's done so much research that the distance between your, your shoulders and your ears communicates confidence, so shoulders down and back, right? So one thing you can do, smile. Have a smile on your face. Physically as well, larger gestures. Don't play so small. Gesture larger. Take up space. So now you've got vocal presence, physical presence. These two things you can practice. And the wildest thing about these two things, as you practice vocal presence and as you practice physical presence, that gradually impacts how you feel, right?
7. CSCodie Sanchez
  So good.
8. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
9. CSCodie Sanchez
  'Cause I was even thinking, so it's, it's coming to the holiday season, right?
10. VGVinh Giang
  Mm.
11. CSCodie Sanchez
  We gotta all go to these parties, right? I'm actually kind of an introverted person.
12. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
13. CSCodie Sanchez
  I have to go to one tonight, Vinh, and I, I have so many stories about-
14. VGVinh Giang
  You're introverted?
15. CSCodie Sanchez
  Oh, yeah. I actually don't-
16. VGVinh Giang
  Oh
17. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... especially, uh, I am introverted in, in groups.
18. VGVinh Giang
  Okay. Okay.
19. CSCodie Sanchez
  I get in my head.
20. VGVinh Giang
  Oh.
21. CSCodie Sanchez
  I worry about, you know, does so- do I wanna talk to them? Am I gonna, am I gonna interrupt?
22. VGVinh Giang
  Mm.
23. CSCodie Sanchez
  Are they gonna think I'm interested?
24. VGVinh Giang
  Okay.
25. CSCodie Sanchez
  Or I'm interested or interesting.
26. VGVinh Giang
  Mm.
27. CSCodie Sanchez
  One-on-one, I'm not so introverted.
28. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29. CSCodie Sanchez
  I'm very curious-
30. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
30:20 – 33:20
How to Be Insanely Fun to Talk To: The Pocket Full of Stories Method
1. VGVinh Giang
  The, the, the, the amazing thing about Chris that I, I experienced this morning was that, and what made him so fun to talk to- He had s- five stories in his back pocket ready to go, right? And then the moment we sat down, and the moment we asked the question, boom, we heard about this... He was gift- someone gifted him a bear-
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah [laughs]
3. VGVinh Giang
  ... right during his, when he was serving in the military. So I was like, "What? They gave you a bear? What did you do with the bear," right? So I, I know that wasn't the first time he shared that. If you wanna be fun to talk to, you've gotta be prepared, and the mistake that people make with this is when they meet people like, like Chris, and I, I, I honestly am so excited to spend time with him is all I'll offer. But it's like he, he has a pocket full of stories. And, and so Codie, tonight when you go, and I know you've got so many stories too, have a pocket of these stories ready to go so that you don't expect yourself to come up with those stories in the moment. But then there's etiquette here too, because you don't wanna just get into a group and be like, "Guess what? Someone gifted me a bear."
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  [laughs]
5. VGVinh Giang
  Right? 'Cause it's like, what?
6. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah.
7. VGVinh Giang
  Who are you, dude?
8. CSCodie Sanchez
  Like [laughs] that's, that's probably not great.
9. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, it's not gonna work.
10. CSCodie Sanchez
  I'ma try it tonight. We'll see how it goes.
11. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, yeah, just, just take Chris' story.
12. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah.
13. VGVinh Giang
  They gifted me a bear. Because he told me he met a warlord. I was like, what? And then I was like, did, did you marry the warlord? Is that Codie? [laughs] Like maybe that-
14. CSCodie Sanchez
  That would be a good story, and cool
15. VGVinh Giang
  ... greatest twist ever
16. CSCodie Sanchez
  Way cooler than me. Yeah.
17. VGVinh Giang
  So have those stories ready. But what... And I, I don't mean to bring Chris so much into this, but what he did so beautifully was when he met us first, he made it all about us first. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna steal what he did as a tactic, but, but this is what I would recommend to my students too. When you join a conversation, don't make it about you first. You, you s- be interested in them first. So if they're currently having a massive chat, they're talking about, oh, they can't wait to go to the Formula 1 or whatever it is [swallows] , join the conversation. "Oh, which team do you go for?"
18. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
19. VGVinh Giang
  "Hey, you go for McLaren, you go for Ferrar-" Like, well, what are you do- So be a part of their conversation, be interested in their world first, ask multiple questions, and then when you're a great conversationalist in that way, they're inevitably gonna go, "Hey, Codie, like, tell us a little bit about you." And the moment those words come out, you're no longer panicked, but rather you're excited because you've got a bear story, you've got a warlord story. You've got so many in your back pocket, right? So I think it's preparation.
20. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah, that's really good.
21. VGVinh Giang
  And, and then when you've got the preparation, play the instrument.
22. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
23. VGVinh Giang
  Don't, don't, don't go there and be like, "Oh yeah, I, I, uh, I did that and th- they gave me a tiger, and that was a really cool experience in my life." Don't do that. Don't do that. Play the instrument, because now you've got fun music.
24. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah.
25. VGVinh Giang
  Now you've got, uh, th- the music being played in a fun way. Oh, and, and that's, that's how I think of it.
26. CSCodie Sanchez
  One other thing that I really like from your wor- work is, uh, it seems sometimes that if we don't know what to say-
27. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
28. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... someone might say too many things.
29. VGVinh Giang
  Ah, yeah.
30. CSCodie Sanchez
  Do you have a process to stop people from rambling?
33:20 – 43:49
Stop Rambling: The 3-2-1 Framework for Clear, Concise Communication
1. VGVinh Giang
  Well, the first thing is y- y- you need to practice thinking through what you want to say and go through the process of that. I'll give you an example. If someone asks me the question, I get this asked all the time when I, I see them in public. They're like, "Hey, Vinh, what's one thing I should do to improve my communication?" I have written a book about this. I've been teaching this for the last 15 years. I'm thinking of 29 different things that you could do to help you improve the way you communicate. So why do I ramble? Because often the people who ramble are smart. They have so much information, so much value they wanna give, but they've never practiced prioritization.
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
3. VGVinh Giang
  They've never practiced being able to prioritize in the moment.
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
5. VGVinh Giang
  So how can I now give really fast advice to people who meet me on the streets, is because I've prepared for it, right? And I use a simple practice m- m- method which is so easy. Just grab your phone so you've got pressure. Don't just practice without the phone. No, record yourself. Record yourself practicing, and when you record yourself practicing the first time, you're gonna ramble. You're gonna say the 29 things that you've learned, and then you record and review, and you go, "Oh man, that's so bad." You can plug it into AI, and then you go, "Oh wow, definitely rambled." But then when you listen to it back, you go, "Huh, out of the 29 things I said, there's one really important thing." It's self-awareness. So when the person in the moment asks you, "Hey man, what's the one thing I sh-" Work on self-awareness first. Do record and review. Record yourself.
6. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
7. VGVinh Giang
  Now it's clear, concise, and coherent. Why? Because I've distilled it. If you think messy, you'll communicate messy, so you've gotta clean up the thinking first. So the clearer you can think, the clearer you can speak, and I, I think there's a mind and mouth connection that people have to practice in private. So if you're an engineer, if you're a pharmacist, if you're an accountant, if you're a carpenter, if you're an eng- uh, said engineer already, but regardless of what you do, think about the 20 most common things you talk about. Speak it out loud. Think through it. Gain a deep understanding of it, because when you understand it better, you speak more clearly. That's number one. You've gotta do the hard yards, right? Number two, you have to learn how to think in frameworks. You have to think about... A simple one I've, I've, I've, uh, I've learned that I use all the time in all the podcasts that I've done I've been using it, is 3-2-1, which is three steps, two types, the one thing. So when someone asks you something, and I'm using three steps right now 'cause I'm gonna give you three things, right? So you ask me a question, I'm like, "Oh, I'm gonna frame it into three parts." This is the second part. So when someone asks you a question on, "Hey, Vinh, what's... How can I improve my social media?" Hey, the one thing you should do is focus on consistency, because that's gonna give you the reps to help you get better. Done. And if they want more, they'll ask.
8. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah.
9. VGVinh Giang
  That's 3-2-1. Or they, they might say, "Hey, Vinh, uh, do you think reading is important?" Hey, uh, I think reading is exercise for the mind That's just me going straight into that, right? Or, or Vinh, what do you think about food? Oh, hey, you know, I think there's two types of food. There's food for your body and there's food for your mind
10. CSCodie Sanchez
  I'm gonna use this too. It's, it's really interesting, that point that you made about if you ramble, it's probably because you're quite smart, especially on this subject matter.
11. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
12. CSCodie Sanchez
  And, and all of that knowledge almost gets accumulated to the point that you feel a disservice-
13. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
14. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... if you tell somebody, you know, How do you make your first million dollars? You're like, there's a lot that goes there, and if I give you something that's not full, am I... Is that a disservice?
15. VGVinh Giang
  I'm not giving enough value.
16. CSCodie Sanchez
  Right.
17. VGVinh Giang
  And so I share-
18. CSCodie Sanchez
  And so getting to that-
19. VGVinh Giang
  ... 29 things
20. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... deep why-
21. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
22. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... is actually really useful. I think I need to work on the same thing. There's also, there's a loveliness about the way you speak and the ability to talk in sound bites.
23. VGVinh Giang
  Mm.
24. CSCodie Sanchez
  You know? Reading is exercise for the mind.
25. VGVinh Giang
  Mm.
26. CSCodie Sanchez
  Sort of do, do you keep a few key ideas and one-liners in your back pocket like a comedian might keep a joke?
27. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, absolutely. I think whatever your area of expertise is-
28. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm-hmm
29. VGVinh Giang
  ... you, you, you've gotta have your best hits, and when you have... Because pe- again, I think the illusion is when you see a great communicator, you're like, "How did they come up with that answer on the spot?" They didn't. They've been asked that question 5,000 times, and they've prepared for it before that. So they not only have written the song, have they written the song, they've sung it 5,000 times. It's why when you think about someone like Adele, right, why does she get paid millions of dollars to sing a three-minute song? Is it because of a song she wrote yesterday? No, no, it's because it's a song she's sung for the last 10, 20 years of her life. S- But people are afraid of, uh, oh, but it needs to be spontaneous. No, the, the, the people who are the best at what they do, they have this ability to make it seem like planned spontaneity.
30. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
43:49 – 49:57
The Uptalk Problem: How One Vocal Habit Destroys Your Credibility
1. VGVinh Giang
  I had a client who then said, like, "Honey, you sounded like you've never taught communication a day in your life. I'm gonna let, I'm g- I'm gonna let you pitch our team again, but you ha- you have to show us how good you are." Whereas I was trying to be humble, 'cause in Australia, we really value that, right? So then if I get rid of the uptalk and I end it on a lower pitch, it sounds completely different. It sounds like this: "I've been teaching communication for the last 10 years. I'm certain I can help you solve all the communication issues." Just from doing that, if you just listen to that, one sounds like I'm lying and questioning my own credibility. One sounds like I'm certain. And that's why when it comes to communication, it could be one simple thing you do in sales that completely transforms the way your customers and your clients perceive you. And that's why it's so scary that if you don't have self-awareness, that one uptalk, that little one thing you do, could be the very thing that undermines you. Just one thing, and it's wild how one thing can transform how people perceive you completely.
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  How much does the average person prepare on what they're going to say as opposed to how they're going to say it, and why is that a mistake if it's wrong?
3. VGVinh Giang
  Most people spend the majority of their time writing out what they're gonna say, and they already make a mistake the moment they go to write. Because when you're writing, you're using the written language to write, and the written language is naturally more formal. Then as a result, you see people at conferences, and the reason they're disengaged the moment they start their speech is because they say, "Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our 23rd conference. I'd like to first of all formally welcome the..." Blah, and then everyone's switched off completely. So you've gotta be careful. If you're going to write the content first, which is people spending 80 to 90% of their time focusing on just writing the content, and then maybe they spend 5 to 10% practicing it, you're writing it in the written language. You've gotta learn how to write in the spoken language. Whereas, uh, uh, when someone greets you at a conference, they're, "Hey, great to see all your beautiful faces. Can you believe we've done this for 23 years in a row?" That, people connect to that because there's a difference between the written language and spoken language. So you gotta make sure you learn how to write in the spoken language, and the problem there is if you're spending 90% on the content, and then you wait until the night before or the week before, and then you're saying to yourself, "Shit, I need to practice this," and then how do you practice? Well, most people when they practice, they grab their script and they go, "So good morning, everyone. It's so good to be here. Um, first it's, can you believe we're doing it for the 23rd time?" How you practice is how you deliver. So then if you're practicing in a monotonous way, you'll deliver in a monotonous way. Why do people use a lectern? It's because when they practice, they're sitting with their script in front of them, so they feel like they need that. Why do people pace when they speak? Because they were pacing in front of the mirror when they were rehearsing.
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
5. VGVinh Giang
  So, so y- you've gotta understand, right, first of all, get the music right. Get it in the spoken language. Then when you practice, read it as if you're there. So when you've got it, it's like, "Hey, it's so good to see all your beautiful faces. It's so crazy we've done this for 23 years in a row." Do that 10 times vocally. So when you do that 10 times vocally, high levels of effort during rehearsal leads to high levels of retention.
6. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
7. VGVinh Giang
  The more effort you put into something, the more likely you are to remember it. Whereas when I'm reading it like this, low levels of effort leads to low levels of retention, right? So you do that for 10 times. You'll be shocked how much you remember just from doing that. And then once you do that, now, now that, now that you've got the content pretty much down, now have dot points. Now practice delivering it. Now practice body language. What do I wanna be doing with my body, right? Oh, that's so good. So when you say 23 years, "Can you be- can you believe we do 23 years?" Cool. Now you're practicing the body language. Now you're practicing the instrument. Whereas often people don't practice that at all, and they wonder why they get on stage and they're just playing a beautiful song, but they're playing it poorly.
8. CSCodie Sanchez
  It's, it's so true.
9. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
10. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah, my big pet peeve is the, uh, reading of the slides.
11. VGVinh Giang
  Oh, it's so... And then you leave the words all on the slides.
12. CSCodie Sanchez
  Oh, it's, yeah, you leave the words on the slide-
13. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
14. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... and you read them, and you do it monotone.
15. VGVinh Giang
  Mm.
16. CSCodie Sanchez
  Uh, and you do it sort of con-
17. VGVinh Giang
  Forgot about lectern.
18. CSCodie Sanchez
  Oh, yeah, [laughs] there we go.
19. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
20. CSCodie Sanchez
  Those are like, that's the way to have nobody take you seriously, even if you're a PhD physicist. I sometimes almost think about it like-
21. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
22. CSCodie Sanchez
  Do you, have you ever seen those videos where there's the man in the subway and he's playing a violin, and it's a beautiful song-
23. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, yeah
24. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... and he gets, like, 50 cents-
25. VGVinh Giang
  Mm
26. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... and a couple of-
27. VGVinh Giang
  I have
28. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... of dollars.
29. VGVinh Giang
  Mm-hmm.
30. CSCodie Sanchez
  And then later you find out this, you know, violinist is headlining XYZ in Madison Square Garden.
49:57 – 52:33
How to Stop Getting Interrupted in Meetings: Stand Up and Set the Frame
1. VGVinh Giang
  The can't be taken seriously part, maybe you don't sound serious. Maybe you're focusing too much on being warm. Maybe there's too much of that. And, and I love this is where my world and Vanessa's collides, where Vanessa speaks about competence and warmth. Maybe you're playing your instrument with your body language too much in the warmth category. Maybe, maybe there's too much placator. Maybe there's too much, "Oh, no, it's okay. Anything's fine. You know, I, I'm okay with that." Maybe you need to play in stronger. Now, here's the idea that I have, right? So, so maybe from an instrument standpoint, learn how to play it with more conviction.
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
3. VGVinh Giang
  So if you're in a boardroom meeting, the reason why people interrupt you is because you're easy to interrupt. You're so easy to interrupt, and you're easy to interrupt when you have low f- vocal presence and low physical presence.
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
5. VGVinh Giang
  So what can you do? If we're sitting around a boardroom, when it's your turn to talk, stand. Just say to the... If you feel weird about it 'cause no one's standing, then just prime the conversation. "Hey, listen, everyone, I've been sitting all day. Do you mind if I stand for my part?" Great, now you've created a reason, and everyone's gonna say... No one's gonna say, "No, shut up, Vinh. Sit down." Yeah, "No one stands in this team." No, they'll let you stand. So as you stand, now you've got physical presence.
6. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
7. VGVinh Giang
  Now people don't interrupt. Why? Because physically, as long as I'm standing, I'm still talking. So you pair the standing now with vocal presence, we've talked about, and physical presence. And, and when you, when you play it out, you know, uh, if I was sharing an idea and I was sitting down, like this, this is so easy to interrupt. Anybody can interrupt this. But if I'm standing and I said, "Hey, listen, I, I've got a really cool campaign I wanna share with you all for the book we're about to launch," and you're standing and you're doing it, volume, gestures, gosh, you become so much more difficult to interrupt. And you can also set context. If you know that the team always interrupt you, you can even set one more thing, which I've done. It's, "Okay, everyone, I, I know we're, we're, we're on a tight schedule. I'm gonna give myself five minutes, all right? And, and then I'd love to take some questions from all of you at the end, okay? So I know you wanna share some thoughts, but I, I'm gonna take the next five minutes and I'd love to share my idea." Set the frame and then go into it, and then take your five. Take your five.
8. CSCodie Sanchez
  That's really good. I also like those because they're not that complicated.
9. VGVinh Giang
  No, it's so easy.
10. CSCodie Sanchez
  Everybody can stand up-
11. VGVinh Giang
  Everyone can use-
12. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... and everyone could set a frame of minutes.
13. VGVinh Giang
  And everyone can use more volume.
14. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah, and you can layer the more complicated things on top of it-
15. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
16. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... but start with something that would be hard to fail with.
17. VGVinh Giang
  And-
18. CSCodie Sanchez
  I think that's really smart
19. VGVinh Giang
  ... and you need the reps.
20. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah.
21. VGVinh Giang
  You need the reps in low-risk environments before you do it in a high-risk environment, 'cause in a boardroom meeting with your boss and all your senior leaders, high-risk environment. So start playing with your instrument out in the wild. So if you're normally someone who's very quiet,
52:33 – 55:25
Practice in Low-Risk Environments: The Gas Station and Uber Driver Test
1. VGVinh Giang
  instead of paying for your gas at the, uh, at where, where you pump it... Here in America, you have that. That's freaking amazing. In Australia, we still gotta go in, right? So when you go in to pay, use a really strong volume. Just go, "Hey, mate, before I go in, uh, do you have any chocolates with nuts in them? I'm not allergic. Love them. Love them. Just wanna check before I come in." Use a really strong volume, right? Just boom, boom it, and, and you'll feel uncomfortable. You might go red in the face, but that's you practicing vocal presence.
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm.
3. VGVinh Giang
  So find, find low-risk environments. Catch an Uber that takes 45 minutes. Talk to the dude, talk to the gal in there for 45 minutes, volume, gestures, everything, stories. The five pocket, the five stories you got in your pocket, practice it on an Uber driver. They have to listen if they want five stars, right? They have to listen, and if they laugh, you give them a tip. So, so create opportunities for you to practice in low-risk, uh, environments. Don't just immediately go into that and sta- 'cause it's like you're, you're, you're an in- a musician who plays their instrument for the first time, it's not gonna sound good. It might do more damage than good. So I, I like to call them find neutral ears. People who have no preconceived ideas of who you are, test on them. Low risk.
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah. Now, I wanna talk about one last thing, maybe two.
5. VGVinh Giang
  Okay.
6. CSCodie Sanchez
  Um, what you wear.
7. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
8. CSCodie Sanchez
  Like how important is what you wear and how you dress if you wanna be taken seriously or you wanna communicate well?
9. VGVinh Giang
  I have a simple answer to this: I don't know. [laughs] And I, and I say that to you because my wife dresses me.
10. CSCodie Sanchez
  [laughs]
11. VGVinh Giang
  So every podcast that I've been on on this book tour, my wife has set out exactly 10 outfits for me-
12. CSCodie Sanchez
  I love this
13. VGVinh Giang
  ... because the thing is, if you left it to me, trackies and a tee, right? And she-
14. CSCodie Sanchez
  I don't even know what a trackie is. Is it a tracksuit?
15. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, no, you know what... Track, track pants.
16. CSCodie Sanchez
  [laughs]
17. VGVinh Giang
  You know what trackies are. Oh.
18. CSCodie Sanchez
  Like mafia style?
19. VGVinh Giang
  You gotta learn some of your Australian slang. No, no, no, no, no, no.
20. CSCodie Sanchez
  Like, like Adidas?
21. VGVinh Giang
  It's more, more, more kind of... Yeah, more kind of degenerate, kinda gamer, don't go out much-
22. CSCodie Sanchez
  Got it, yeah
23. VGVinh Giang
  ... hobbit-
24. CSCodie Sanchez
  Got it
25. VGVinh Giang
  ... style.
26. CSCodie Sanchez
  Like sweatpants.
27. VGVinh Giang
  Yes.
28. CSCodie Sanchez
  Trackies.
29. VGVinh Giang
  The baggier, yeah, the baggier, the comf- more comfortable.
30. CSCodie Sanchez
  Okay.
55:25 – 56:53
The Power of 'I Don't Know' and Why It Won't Destroy Your Credibility
1. VGVinh Giang
  You, you don't do that. I, I, I hope you find it a little bit refreshing s- because this is the first time I've got to say I don't know, 'cause I've never been asked that. It's okay to not know, right? I- I think it's all right. It doesn't... Whereas we have this, this fear of what if they ask me something I don't know? What if they ask me something I don't know the answer to? What, what's gonna happen to my credibility? It's all right. I think it's so refreshing to be able to say those words, and say it confidently. I don't know, but I will find out. I don't know, but now I'm more curious about asking my wife the question, how do you know how to put these together? I've just kind of leaned on her for it.
2. CSCodie Sanchez
  I also think it's lovely-
3. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah. What, what-
4. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... because you're telling the people who are listening to you-
5. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
6. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... that don't know all these things you've just talked about.
7. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
8. CSCodie Sanchez
  You're telling them, "Listen, I don't know about this one, so what do I do? I go to somebody else."
9. VGVinh Giang
  Yes.
10. CSCodie Sanchez
  "I talk to another person."
11. VGVinh Giang
  Yes.
12. CSCodie Sanchez
  "I have her give me feedback."
13. VGVinh Giang
  Mm-hmm.
14. CSCodie Sanchez
  "And we implement the feedback."
15. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
16. CSCodie Sanchez
  And so, you know, whether they, they listen to the advice and then they film themselves, or they film themselves plus they go talk to their significant other to say, "How did that go?"
17. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
18. CSCodie Sanchez
  I think that's a really beautiful mirror.
19. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, that's right.
20. CSCodie Sanchez
  Um-
21. VGVinh Giang
  I listened to exactly what she said, so this is exactly what she told me to wear for this one.
22. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah. [laughs]
23. VGVinh Giang
  I'm, I'm a good student. But do you have any thoughts on this? Because I think you dress beautifully.
24. CSCodie Sanchez
  Oh, thank you.
25. VGVinh Giang
  I think you dress really well. Because it's, it's, it- it's- it's beauty that can be taken seriously that also has power, which I think is a cool mix.
26. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah. It's surprisingly hard to do.
27. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah.
28. CSCodie Sanchez
  Um, I, I'm a little bit like you in that I m- I actually don't really care.
29. VGVinh Giang
  Okay.
30. CSCodie Sanchez
  I'm not really into clothes or fashion.
56:53 – 59:35
The Economics of Appearance: Why How You Look Affects How Much You Make
1. CSCodie Sanchez
  but what I found a few years ago when I wanted to build bigger businesses, do bigger things-
2. VGVinh Giang
  Hmm
3. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... is that the way that you look is just the fastest indication of how-
4. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
5. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... somebody can categorize you.
6. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7. CSCodie Sanchez
  And so if I didn't wanna be right, but I wanted to win-
8. VGVinh Giang
  Hmm
9. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... I better dress for the part that I want. And so there's lots of studies and data that show, you know, the more pulled together you are-
10. VGVinh Giang
  Hmm
11. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... the more professionally dressed you are, the more you actually make, just like period writ large to humans, exact same, uh, skill set, exact same background. If you are more pulled together-
12. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah
13. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... and you dress well as evi- as evidenced by, like, personal grooming plus outfit-
14. VGVinh Giang
  Hmm
15. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... AKA professional attire-
16. VGVinh Giang
  Hmm
17. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... you'll make more salary, um, pricing on, uh, whatever product you sell than the person, uh,
18. VGVinh Giang
  Just from-
19. CSCodie Sanchez
  Just from the way-
20. VGVinh Giang
  Did they say the percentage difference or what?
21. CSCodie Sanchez
  Yeah. I believe for women, I... We should check my homework on this, but it was something like for women it's, like, a 37% increase.
22. VGVinh Giang
  37.
23. CSCodie Sanchez
  Mm-hmm. And for men it's 15. So it's less for men-
24. VGVinh Giang
  Oh, right
25. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... than women. There's also a scale of attractiveness as measured by symmetry.
26. VGVinh Giang
  Huh.
27. CSCodie Sanchez
  And so the more symmetrical, you know, your face is-
28. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
29. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... uh, the, the higher paid. And I believe there's a book, um, about it that is, um, I can't remember the name, but something about, like, the economics of beauty. Short book. But, um, I think you have to ask yourself also, like, is it fair? I don't know. You know, does that seem-
30. VGVinh Giang
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
59:35 – 1:00:13
Closing Thoughts: Get the Book and Start Playing Your Instrument
1. CSCodie Sanchez
  Before we forget how to connect, I'm so excited. I'm gonna be handing out this book to my team. This is so useful.
2. VGVinh Giang
  Thanks, Codie.
3. CSCodie Sanchez
  It's really hard writing a book, especially a good one. [laughs]
4. VGVinh Giang
  No, man.
5. CSCodie Sanchez
  And so thank you-
6. VGVinh Giang
  Hmm
7. CSCodie Sanchez
  ... for taking the time. I'm so excited to get this out in the world.
8. VGVinh Giang
  Thank you.
9. CSCodie Sanchez
  So the book is now out everywhere.
10. VGVinh Giang
  Thank you.
11. CSCodie Sanchez
  Your first book, and I think there'll be, be a lot of people that are gonna get more of what they want out of life from reading this bad boy. Thanks for writing it.
12. VGVinh Giang
  Thanks, Codie.
13. CSCodie Sanchez
  Where else, uh, do you like people to follow you? I love your YouTube and your Instagram too.
14. VGVinh Giang
  So my handle on YouTube and Instagram is AskVinh, A-S-K V-I-N-H.
15. CSCodie Sanchez
  Thank you for that. [upbeat music]