Five Black Entrepreneurs EXPLAIN How They Went From Nothing To Wealthy

Dontez Akram 0:00 If you look at your bank account, for example, and you don't like the number that's in there, you- it's a sum of your decisions you've made throughout the last 90 days. So at some point in time, you have to be confident enough in yourself to say, "You know what? I am going to change things every day moving forward for the next 90 days."

Calum Johnson 0:17 Before we get into the episode, I was looking at the analytics for the last 28 days on this podcast. 96.9% of you guys are not subscribed. So here's my one favor that I ask from you. If you wanna see the biggest guests, the best guests, the most, with the most inspirational stories and actionable advice come on the podcast, let's get those subscribers up. Please give the channel a subscribe.

Dontez Akram 0:39 And to be honest, the mind shift change came when, like, I started catching mice when I was sleeping on the floor in my daughter's mom's house.

Calum Johnson 0:47 Mm.

Dontez Akram 0:48 And it was 'cause it was, we were on Section 8, and it was, like, all these different situations, and I'm sitting here like, "Man," like, "I cannot keep doing this." Like, there's something your body and your mind goes through when you're going through these certain things, and it depends on the individual what you do after you go through it after a certain amount of times.

Calum Johnson 1:05 Mm-hmm.

Dontez Akram 1:06 And at some point, you know, I started blaming everybody else for what was going on. Oh, my mom kicked me out, so it's her fault that I have to even catch these mice. And oh, man, I just... Why is my car doing this? You know what? It's, it's this fault. And, and I started blaming everything. And there was just this one day, like, I was sitting with my daughter. We were watching, uh, we were watching some movie. I think it's, uh, I can't... Encanto or something like that. Sitting there watching a movie, and I'm just like, every time I blame somebody, I'm giving somebody else power over me.

Calum Johnson 1:33 Mm.

Dontez Akram 1:33 And I started looking within, and I was like, all of this stuff is my fault. Like, everything's my fault. And, and I got down on myself for a period of time, but I think what happens is it was building resilience. Like, sometimes when you're self-aware and, uh, you're very self-aware, you can kinda look at things that you know you've done wrong and try to lie to yourself. But what I did was like, I was like, you know what? There's no more lying to myself. The only person I need to be honest with is myself, and that's the only way I'll be able to speak truth when I come onto these podcasts or I do a YouTube video or I speak to other individuals who look up to me. I have to be truthful, and I have to be pure with my intentions.

Calum Johnson 2:10 Mm.

Dontez Akram 2:11 So I was like, you know what? Everything's my fault. And the moment I said that, I took all the power back from everybody else. And I said, wow, like, it's my decision on whether or not I wanna wake up at 7:00 in the morning. It's my decision if I wanna go to the gym. If I'm fat, it's my fault. If I don't like my life, it's my fault. If I look at my bank account and I don't like the number that's in there, it's a reflection of what I've been doing over these last 90 days. So if I don't like it, then I should probably change. That's exactly what happened. And the mindset, uh, mind shift is really changing your daily habits. You know, because I tell people all the time, you know, if you look at your bank account, for example, and you don't like the number that's in there, you- it's a sum of your decisions you've made throughout the last 90 days.

Calum Johnson 2:52 Naomi Campbell gave you an opportunity. Virgil Abloh gave you an opportunity. Bella Hadid gave you an opportunity. They passed you the ball, and then you talk about the follow-through. So I, I wa- I wanna talk about both moments. So what were you doing

Calum Johnson 3:05 that they gave you the opportunity? What do you think they saw? And then what was the follow-through? How did you make sure you delivered?

Joe Holder 3:12 Yeah, I mean, good question. I mean, I was fucking grinding, man. It's like people... Like, I first worked in food. I worked for this company called Health Warrior. It was a chia bar, chia seed company that was acquired by PepsiCo. I was probably employee number five there. And I worked there out of school at Penn from about 2013 to '15, '16. But, uh, making $32,000 a year maybe, sleeping on my friend's couch, fucking going. But I was, you know... You would have to prove yourself in that game, right? So I would be standing in fucking Whole Foods and f- Battery Park City. My friends who work at Goldman are coming in. I'm fucking chopping up chia bars, handing them out to folks. They're like, "Yo, what is Joe doing?" Went to an Ivy League school. You gotta swallow your pride. But that access that it got me to things and the stuff that I learned, right? So I was able to get... I made friends with people at Nike Run Clubs because this is before, like, whatever, influencer strategy was a thing. I would show up to the run clubs. I would have some bars with me, be like, "Yo, have some of these." I'd go run with them, meet them, do that type of thing, infiltrate. Always show up. Always show up. I do that with Nike. I did that with Lululemon. I did that with who- whatever. Made relationships, right? I'm hosting free workouts, not getting paid, pop-ups on West Side Highway.

Calum Johnson 4:21 Mm.

Joe Holder 4:21 Call them Ocho System Saturdays. Doing, doing it.

Calum Johnson 4:24 Mm.

Joe Holder 4:24 Showing up.

Calum Johnson 4:25 Mm.

Joe Holder 4:25 Clicking away, clicking away. Then I got the Nike deal. Then I'm continuously upskilling. I get the Nike deal or Nike situation because Nike comes in and scouts a class.

Calum Johnson 4:36 Mm.

Joe Holder 4:36 It was called Run Strong. Uh, the woman who works for Peloton, Robin, used to teach it, right?

Calum Johnson 4:42 Mm.

Joe Holder 4:42 She hit me up the day before one of the classes. She said, "I can't teach this class. I'm out of town. Can you cover it?"

Calum Johnson 4:47 Mm.

Joe Holder 4:48 I had two choices there. It was an early class.

Calum Johnson 4:50 Mm.

Joe Holder 4:51 I did not want to cover it. [laughs]

Calum Johnson 4:53 Yeah.

Joe Holder 4:54 I did cover it. I may have been a little late, but whatever. I was there. 6:30, 7:00 AM, show up. I'm like, whatever, let's do this. Got two choices, you know. You could be an asshole. It's early. You're annoyed. You're not gonna give a good class. You'll just get through it. But I'm like, I'm here. I'm gonna give a good experience. The people who were in that class that day happened to work for Nike. I had no idea they were there till they came up to me after the class and they said, "Joe, we think you'd be a good fit for this. Do you wanna, uh, co- we're doing, building out this program called 45 Grand. We'd love you to be a part of it." I'm like, "Hell yeah."

Calum Johnson 5:27 Mm.

Joe Holder 5:28 Sure, but guess what? I showed up, right?

Calum Johnson 5:30 Mm.

Joe Holder 5:31 Then there's a whole other story about this, but essentially Nike didn't follow up with me until randomly one day I get a call like three months later after this. They're like, "Joe, we're, we're hosting audition, trainer auditions at the office. Can you come in?"

Calum Johnson 5:45 Mm.

Joe Holder 5:45 I had a choice. I had to catch a train in two hours to go to Boston.

Calum Johnson 5:48 Mm.

Joe Holder 5:49 I had to give a talk and to lead with some workouts up there. I was like, "I don't think I can make it." They're like, "All right, you can do it when you come back." Get a call about 15 minutes later. They told me, "Today's the only day you can do it."

Calum Johnson 6:00 Mm.

Joe Holder 6:00 "Are you gonna come in or not?"

Calum Johnson 6:02 Mm.

Joe Holder 6:02 And I had to go in. I had no prep No prep. Show up to the office.

Calum Johnson 6:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Holder 6:06 The woman comes out, Erin, God bless her soul. She said, "Joe, I saw you. You weren't..." And this is why people always got to vouch for you. Said, "Joe, I saw you weren't on the list. I thought you'd be great for this. One, I wanted you here. I carved out a slot for you. I know you don't have much time. Uh, you know, I'll give you 10 minutes to prep and then you gotta come in, you gotta lead a workout for, for the people that are there. Have your music ready."

Calum Johnson 6:26 Mm.

Joe Holder 6:26 Now I'm looking in this space, and there's at the time, 2015, '16, this is all the who's who of the fitness space in New York City, right?

Calum Johnson 6:35 Mm.

Joe Holder 6:35 And I'm like, "I love this shit."

Calum Johnson 6:37 Mm.

Joe Holder 6:37 I'm like, you know, kill your idols type of thing. And I, and she gave me 10 minutes to prep. I went in there, did well, and I eventually, you know, things cascaded and I started to work for, work for Nike and they brought, they brought me on. [swoosh]

Calum Johnson 6:49 We are in upgrade season. This is about upgrading your paycheck, upgrading your enjoyment of your work, and that brings us to the sponsor of today's show, Free Agency. Free Agency manages and represents talent in the tech industry. They provide you with a dedicated talent agent that will help you find and win top of market roles. So if you are looking to build out your dream career today, Free Agency is the company for you. Go to the link in description, check it out. [swoosh]

Guest 7:22 If you had have sat me down, the person I am today, and sat me down with the person I was that moved out, I don't think that I saw even half of the potential that I was. I don't even think I saw it. I don't think that anybody could have seen it in me. Um, looking back, I think that that toxic partner saw it and maybe that, that contributed to the conflict in a sense because, like, it can be intimidating

Guest 7:50 that somebody... 'Cause he was 25, I was 20. So we had a, a little bit of a gap, and it's kind of scary to meet somebody that I was working at Wing House serving Captain and Coke. I was just a regular degular college girl. If I needed money, I, I asked my parents for it. Like, there was no... You know what I mean? Like-

Calum Johnson 8:08 Mm

Guest 8:09 ... I had a car. I ha- I had everything I wanted. Like, it was, that was the norm. You know what I mean? Like, not everything I wanted, but I had like, you know, sta- stability that I felt like was fine. To then you seeing this girl kind of grow up in front of you, 'cause it was over the course of like three years. Yeah, I w- I was with him for three years. It, that I just kind of became something that I don't think he ever thought I could or maybe he did see it and that created the conflict. But looking back it's like I just became a demon in a sense. Like, I, I know some women after heartbreak and things like that happen, they get promiscuous, and I was just so angry-

Calum Johnson 8:44 Mm

Guest 8:44 ... that I had let that happen to myself. I was so angry that my dad was right. I was just, there was so much resentment as a young woman, and you gotta think I'm 21, 22 at this time, that I just took that and I just worked and worked, and I made videos about it. A lot of people may remember me from my Facebook videos. It said, like, what she did after she got cheated on, what she did after she got evicted, what she did... Like, it was just this breakup story that I took and just owned because what else did I have? Like, I made my bed and I laid in it, and it was just crazy. Like, that's the only words I could put into words. 'Cause so many women get into it, not just men. Like, a lot of girls, like at least in the South, like, we can't rent cars because some boy we rented a car for wrecked it. We can't get apartments 'cause some boy... You know what I mean? Like, you're always hearing these horrible stories about women and dating and doing things for other people 'cause you, you love that person so much that you're willing to basically fall on the sword for them, and then they don't talk about the woman that you become after.

Calum Johnson 9:45 Mm.

Guest 9:45 Like, and thank God, you know, [laughs] by 25 I kind of let it go, but from, I would definitely say from 20 to 25 you can, you can talk to me. Like, I was just on 10.

Calum Johnson 9:57 Mm.

Guest 9:57 Like, [laughs] I just had a take over the world type of mentality, and it paid off. Like, I, I'm really grateful for my experience, but I also know that the person I was had to die to be the person that I am now.

Calum Johnson 10:10 Mm.

Guest 10:11 And sometimes it's hard to let go of that person, especially that innocence to that resentment and anger to a person that's at peace with how it happened. [swoosh]

Guest 10:21 Around them. Like, I'd go on Fulton Street and I'd see all these really cool Black-owned businesses, and I just had every reason to believe that I could do something like that, just as cool, but myself. So I got to a point where, um, I was prepared to do it, you know? And I'm, I'm strategic, so I had gotten myself financially prepared, like my, my living situation, my lifestyle, I was set up to really dive in and do the business. And so on April 1st, [laughs] April Fool's Day, I gave notice and I, um, gave a month's notice. May 1 is my first day where I'm gonna be just,

Guest 10:55 like, sitting in a cafe and working on my business plan, you know, very casually.

Calum Johnson 10:58 Mm.

Guest 10:58 And that's literally May 1st. And I'm sitting in a cafe and randomly ask the person that was serving me, like, if they know anything about the rents around here. And the guy's like, "No, but my landlord's in the back and he owns everything around here. You should talk to him." That, like, one conversation on day one of not having a job led to me having a lease, keys, and a space within less than 60 days. And so now I'm forced to implement everything that I've been creatively writing in one notebook for the last three years.

Calum Johnson 11:22 Mm.

Guest 11:23 Um, and I just think at that time I just didn't care. I was like, "Yeah, let's do it." And I didn't really know all the different places I would bump my knees and knock my head, and I just didn't understand that at the time. I hadn't opened a business in the city of New York before. You have no idea how tough that is, you know? So I thought I could do it, and I think it's great that I thought I could do it. I think now I'd be like, "Oh, God."

Calum Johnson 11:44 Mm. [laughs]

Guest 11:44 But then, [laughs] then I was like, "Yeah, I just need to, like, get a, you know, get some keys and get a place and put some wallpaper up and it'll be fine." You know what I mean?

Calum Johnson 11:51 Mm-hmm.

Guest 11:51 Like, I just was so naive it worked. Um, and I've always had good ideas. I've always had great ideas about marketing things. I've always loved the... I, before I even knew what marketing was, I've always loved in my mind showing off things that I love. If it's this glass of water, I'll sell you a gallon of it. Like, that's just the way it is.

Calum Johnson 12:09 Yeah.

Guest 12:10 Um, so I knew I wanted services at that time, nail services, beauty services, to be fun, to be chic, to be affordable, to be uplifted, and just be upgraded overall in Brooklyn And I thought that I could do that, and I thought that I could take that task at hand, and I did it, and I did it well for 10 years, and so much so that I opened multiple businesses. Uh, but you know, five years into the 10 years, it no longer stimulated me. I was already onto the next, 'cause I already told you I'm not excited about anything for too long, and I'm always thinking about that next chapter. So five years in is when I, I personally was checked out, and was like, "What's next? What else can I be doing?" And I'm just noticing that, you know, the onl- only people really making money were the landlords and the, and the, and the real- real- realtors, 'cause they were, like, releasing the spaces or renting the spaces or selling this. So I was like, "Oh, those are the people that are making money." And I'm, and I have people in my personal life that are really heavy in real estate, and I see the difference. We're coming out of the recession, but they're coming out faster. So I'm like, "I love a note." [laughs]

Guest 13:04 [laughs]

Guest 13:04 Okay. 'Cause I remember, like, just three years ago where you were, and now, voila, like you've dug yourself out of this recession hole. That really was a real estate crisis, but I noticed that real estate people were coming out of that hole faster. That brought my attention to real estate immediately, and I had a best friend that always thought that I should've been in real estate, like literally has never let it go. And I said, "Okay, I'll just get my license and I'll just try." And then I decided to get my license to sell houses, because I was gonna make a lot of money, and then decide to do another beauty business, something that wasn't so taxing, something that didn't require so much of my time. And I get in, and I'm in for a year, and I'm addicted.

Guest 13:41 Mm.

Guest 13:42 And so now it's like I know I will be selling real estate. I always tell everybody, "I'm gonna be 80 years old, just click, click, clicking around." [laughs] Like just, "I have a townhouse to go sell. I'll be right back." You know? Like I, I know that I'll always do it at some level for the rest of my life. I've, I've made that decision about a year in, 'cause I do love it. I didn't expect to love it, but I love it.

Guest 14:00 Mm.

Guest 14:01 Um, and I get in, and I struggled in the beginning a lot, but once I got my footing, um, as I do, I run, and I run faster, you know? Um, and that's why I say that's the gift, because there are people that are work- that I, I believe are working and trying as hard as I am, but what I am so grateful for is when I really put my mind to things and really work hard, my results are amazing. You know, that's the gift. That's something I don't take credit for. You know? That's just fortune, and then being ... Yeah, just being fortunate, I think, you know? Because I, I can't say that I'm working harder than everyone else. I do get great results, though, because if I really zone in and focus on something, I'm, I'm gonna kill it, you know? There's no doubt about that.

Guest 14:47 People do stuff that is fucked up. Like, you're like,

Guest 14:50 "Damn, why'd that happen? Damn, why'd he do me like that?" You've gotta ... It, it, you, you constantly are developing that over time, because we all have soft sp- spots, we all have weak spots, and, like, that's where the universe, that's where God speaks to you and says, "Here's what's going on. Here's what you need to see." The whole thing is just a revealing of your character, a revealing of your spirit, a revealing of your, of, of your person over life. You're just b- it's just ... I believe the, the entire journey of, of life is you're waking up the entire time. You're waking up. So yeah, I had some moments like that. I had some moments where I had to put up the middle finger, I'm like, "I'm gonna live or die on this." You know, when your back's against the wall and you could lose everything, right? You could, you could literally lose everything. You gotta make up in your mind, "What's the one thing I can't lose? What's the one thing-

Guest 15:45 Mm-hmm

Guest 15:45 ... if I could lose everything else, I can't lose this?" If you decide it's like, it's like, "My dignity, I can't lose my dignity in this process," you found something out about yourself in the process. I went through a situation where exactly like that professionally. You know, someone came to me and they was in a position of power, flexing on me hard-

Guest 16:08 Mm

Guest 16:08 ... in front of everybody. And it was just like, here's a moment where you define yourself. You know, Biggie said, "Ready to die." Mobb Deep said, "Survival of the fittest." What are you about? But if you stand for something, it's not ego, right? You can live. But if it's ego, the sword has to go both ways. If it cuts their head off, it has to cut your head off too. But if you're standing on something, you can survive it. So when I stepped to, I said, "Listen, you don't pay me enough for me to sell you my dignity. So I'm not in a position now to be successful with my coworkers because of the way you just talked to me in front of them."

Guest 16:59 Mm-hmm.

Guest 17:00 "And so there's no way I can be successful here now. So if you wanted me to be successful here now, you just, you just, you just ended my career, so we might as well just pack- pick- pack a box and we, let's dip now, 'cause I'm not selling you my dignity." And in that moment, the person looked at me and was like, "I respect your principles, and I get you now." And they learned something about me, 'cause there was conflict. You see what I'm saying?

Guest 17:27 Mm-hmm.

Guest 17:28 That conflict is a diagnostic. So that conflict came about, that tension, they learned something about me, I learned something about me.

Guest 17:36 Mm.

Guest 17:36 That bred, that, that bred trust. The person backed up. "Ah, my bad. I see what you're saying." 'Cause it was about the business. It's like you trying to build an environment where everybody trusts each other, and then you undercut someone you're in power over in front of everybody else. Now you've told everybody in the organization that the way to succeed here is to cut each other down to show that you're the most powerful person. That's the culture. And so you're gonna, you're gonna put that, you're gonna insert that cultural code into the business, you're gonna ruin the business, right? So when I put it in those terms, he was like, "I understand the business, and I understand you, and I understand where you're coming from. And now I respect you," and the entire thing flipped around- And I became on a, I, I became... Me and that person were just great terms after that. But that's the p- that's the point when... And, and now look, I had everything to lose in that moment. Everything. You know? My finances at that point in time in my life were not great. I had just come back from an L. Literally had just come back from a huge L. Crazy L.

Dontez Akram 18:49 Mm.

Guest 18:49 I needed that job, bro.

Dontez Akram 18:51 Mm.

Guest 18:52 But I needed to be who I am more than I needed that job, and whatever I was gonna go through if they did walk me out the door was way less than what I'd have

Guest 19:00 went through staying there.

Dontez Akram 19:02 When you start looking at things from this point of view and then you start asking yourself, "Well, how do I make my first 10K month?" Well, what, what lane are you trying to go down? Who is the best in this lane? Can I learn from them? Can I network it with them? Can I watch all of their YouTube videos? Absolutely. Can I consume every bit of piece of knowledge, not every piece, but like can I consume way more knowledge on it? Can I put in an hour to two hours a day to learn about Facebook ads, to learn about marketing? 'Cause if I'm being honest with you, like every company needs ads. Every company needs marketing. Every company needs operations. You learn one of those three first, and then you go in whatever order you want, I can tell you that you'll make 10K a month. I don't think making 10K a month is extremely difficult. I think that it's the lane that you choose to go down to make 10K a month, it might just be more difficult than others.

Guest 19:51 Mm.

Dontez Akram 19:51 So, like agencies, you know, it's a lot easier to solve a person's problem who makes a million dollars if you know how to solve it than it is to solve a person who has on- only $2,000 and wants to make 10,000. Because that individual who's making multiple millions or multiple six figures, they're willing to pay you $5,000 a month to fix this one part of their business that will affect their bottom line. So, how do I solve bigger problems?

Guest 20:15 Mm.

Dontez Akram 20:16 And then deal with people who make way more money. And then if you are gonna go the route where you're dealing with people who may not have as much money, how do I play the volume game? How can I play this game so well? What things, what unique edge do I have that I can play so well to my advantage to where the volume comes a lot easier and I don't have to spend as much? So for me personally, like I didn't learn this until last year that my unique edge is being able to make content and being able to make ads. Like, it's something that I am very, very, very good at. Like, I don't need a script. I don't need anything. You just tell me what the company is. You tell me what the product is. I will get in front of the camera. You give me literally three minutes, I'm good.

Guest 20:55 Mm.

Dontez Akram 20:55 And it's just a snap of a finger. It just goes. But not everybody can do that. And I, I didn't realize that until my content team told me. It's like, "You know, bro, you really can sit down in front of a camera and talk forever."

Guest 21:05 Yeah.

Dontez Akram 21:05 And I'm like, "Yeah, it just comes natural." And they're like, "You know, that's not for everybody. You know, everybody can't do that." Everybody can't market or find the best three key components to talk about, and then systematically say it in order, and then make sure you still have the call to action in the 60-second timeframe. Not everybody can do that.

Guest 21:23 Mm.

Dontez Akram 21:24 And I never thought about it from that point of view. So it's just like for the individuals who are watching, you have to take some time out to learn who you are, learn the, the things that you're amazing at.

Guest 21:34 I was always, always the only Black girl in the room, you know, always the only Black person in the building. Um-

Guest 21:42 Mm

Guest 21:42 ... and that's just because of how I grew up in an environment in Arizona,

Guest 21:45 in the Valley, where like the minorities were just a such a few s- you know, just a speckle here and there at that time, probably still now, I'm not sure. Um, and I think what I did at that time was to really pay close attention to what everyone else was doing so that I could fade into the background a little bit and like not always feel so other, not always feel so different, right?

Guest 22:11 Mm.

Guest 22:11 So you're like, you're just paying attention to more. You're paying attention to everything. Like I know where every camera is in this room. Like I- those are the things I take in. Um, so I think that that's where it came from. I think it came from a really insecure space, honestly, like just caring more, being more particular, trying harder, working harder. And then just, um, growing up in an environment where I grew up in a single family home, like my mom was, um, taking care of me and my sister and doing a really great job to do that. I, I never felt like we grew up with less because we grew up in a single family home.

Guest 22:44 Mm.

Guest 22:44 But I'm very aware of what it took to create that for us and that reality, right?

Guest 22:48 Mm-hmm.

Guest 22:48 That hard work, that drive. I saw someone get up every day and run that same schedule every single day. Like I could time the, the time that my mom would come into my room, turn on my light, and say, "Rise and shine." It was exactly 7:05 in the morning, right?

Guest 23:02 Mm-hmm.

Guest 23:02 And that went on for years. So you see that hustle, you see that spirit of someone, and I think I was just being trained on how to have that discipline. And then also just really trying to figure out how to conform and fit into this environment, being so different. And you only can do that by figuring out what everyone else is doing, so you're watching everything.

Guest 23:21 Mm.

Guest 23:21 So it creates this space where your brain is just overactive all the time.

Guest 23:24 Mm-hmm.

Guest 23:24 You know? But now I think it's my absolute special gift. I think it's something that is, is great about me because I can be doing multiple things at one time and paying attention to small details in all of those spaces at the same time. And I want more out of most things than I think my peers do. Like I want more out of this podcast than your other interviewers got, you know?

Guest 23:46 Mm-hmm.

Guest 23:46 I want more out of my work. I want my brand to do more. I want my business to do more. I wanna stand out above and beyond. It's like I'm making up for all of that time that I was trying to do this. It's like now I wanna do this. And I think that they're linked because as you grow up, you just start to realize like, "Oh, wait, I can use this," you know? And that's what I've learned how to do is I've tried to use all those quirks about my personality, 'cause there are a lot of them, [laughs]

Guest 24:12 Mm

Guest 24:12 ... and I've tried to use all of them to benefit me in my life.

Guest 24:16 And it's crazy you say that because I always feel like people that can't explain

Guest 24:20 what they do in like simple terms-

Guest 24:22 Mm

Guest 24:22 ... don't know, really know what they're doing.

Guest 24:24 Mm.

Guest 24:24 You know what I mean? Like I'm able to really explain e-commerce and how to sell online in like three steps. Like I make it very cut and dry. Like make the account, hit bestsellers, just list the top three, add 10 to 15%, call it a day. Like don't overthink it. Like-

Guest 24:38 Mm

Guest 24:38 ... there's no point. Like oh, what if... It's gonna sell. It's, if it doesn't sell, you didn't even buy it.

Guest 24:43 Mm.

Guest 24:44 And the account costs no money, so Where can you go from here? The only place you can go is up.

Calum Johnson 24:49 Mm.

Guest 24:49 So, and once you get that first sale, you get that, that feeling of like, it does work. 'Cause that's all I needed was like that sa- that first sale of like, wow, this works.

Calum Johnson 24:58 Mm.

Guest 24:58 'Cause it gives you that confidence in a sense.

Calum Johnson 25:01 So is it, is it drop shipping or are you-

Guest 25:03 No

Calum Johnson 25:04 ... buying the products?

Guest 25:05 No, so it's retail arbitration.

Calum Johnson 25:07 Okay. Explain that one.

Guest 25:07 Retail arbitration is using USA big box retailers to sell on another major retailer site in the US. So it's all US-based, so you don't have to worry about it. And because all of these retailers are now offering free shipping, free this, free that, it makes it super easy because we're in an era of convenience. [laughs]

Calum Johnson 25:25 Mm.

Guest 25:25 People don't wanna do anything themselves, which, you know, if you're on the other side of the fence trying to make ends meet, you can literally make at least two, three grand on convenience.

Calum Johnson 25:37 Mm.

Guest 25:37 'Cause I've, I've made millions off of convenience, just simple convenience, which is where the term like, oh, scam, like, no, it's convenience. You're selling convenience because yes, you could cut your own hair, but you don't want to. Yes, you could go downstairs to Starbucks, but you could pay somebody to bring it up. Like, we're in an era where people pay for their convenience. They pay for first class. They pay for Uber Eats. They pay for people to... Like, they're paying so that they don't have to do it.

Calum Johnson 26:02 Mm.

Guest 26:03 So why not exploit that-

Calum Johnson 26:05 Mm

Guest 26:06 ... for yourself, especially if you have a family to feed? Like, are you really concerned about somebody paying an extra 10 bucks because they were too lazy to deal fine?

Calum Johnson 26:13 [swoosh]

Guest 26:13 The saddest day should be when you complete your goal. That

Guest 26:17 should be the saddest day if you love it. What it's doing to you, what it's doing for you, it should make you emotional because once you've been through a few processes, you miss it. You miss what was happening in those hard days. Even though they were hard, that was life. I was living. I was alive. I was here. You know what I'm saying? Ultimately, everybody feels that, that, that calling to say, to feel like, "Is anybody gonna know I was here? That I lived? That I did something? That, that I mattered," right? "My work, my life, my family, my ideas, you know, my hopes, my dreams, did I matter?" This is what goes on in people's minds when they're living their life. It ain't ... Sometimes people, they de- they determine in their mind may- "I don't matter. I'm just gonna live it out. I'm just gonna drag it out," which is the ultimate shame 'cause you, you've already died at that moment, right? And you're just, you're living-

Calum Johnson 27:20 Yeah

Guest 27:21 ... a zombie life. Um, but I will say this too, I'm very, very glad that we didn't talk about term sheets and writing code and AI and blockchain and venture capital kind of, and music and culture and all those things. We always talk about those things. This was really like real life shit.

Calum Johnson 27:45 Okay, before we get out of here, I had to give you guys one last gem. The sponsor of today's show, Free Agency. Free Agency helps you find and win top of market roles. Here's how they do it. They are your career quarterback. They provide you with a dedicated talent agent. They understand you and your career goals. They will find you interviews at top firms and make sure you secure a top of market salary. So if you're looking to take your career to the next level, Free Agency is the place for you. Go to the link in the description for more information.