How To Make Your First Million Dollars On TikTok Shop In 1Hr 18mins | Will Rivera

Will Rivera 0:00 I've actually seen people with 2,000, 3,000 followers make anywhere between like 30, 40, $50,000 a month on TikTok. You don't have to be a genius to make a lot of money. You just have to be early. I was going to school every day from 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM, and then from 6:00 PM to 4:00 AM I was working at Amazon. My mom called me one day and, uh, she said that she was having a surgery done. She needed help. She calls me because she thinks I'm making money, but I'm really not making [laughs] that much money at my job and I'm still not able to help her. That kind of was like the last straw for me. I was like, "No," like, "I gotta figure something out."

Calum Johnson 0:31 I'm intrigued with the opportunity on TikTok Shop and like being an affiliate. What is step number one?

Will Rivera 0:37 The first thing that you're gonna want to do is-

Calum Johnson 0:41 I was having a conversation with my producer just now and we were looking at the analytics. 96.9% of you guys are not currently subscribed to the channel. Absolutely killing us. So if you want to get the best guests with the most inspirational stories, with incredible actionable advice that they can give you on how to grow your business or grow your life, please subscribe to the channel. It helps immeasurably. I know even from our last conversation, like the number of businesses and things that you're working on, can you quickly just explain to people what is it that you do?

Will Rivera 1:14 Yeah. So, uh, to be brief, pretty much I sell products online and then I help people get into selling products online. So I own a company called Ecom University. We have over 20,000 students worldwide. I founded it back in 2018. Um, and in that, in that, you know, university we teach people how to make money at, whether it's Shopify, whether it's through Amazon. And recently we introduced TikTok Shop, which is blowing up crazy right now. Uh, so basically everything that I've learned in my about seven years now in entrepreneurship and selling well over $30 million worth of product online, I pretty much pour that all into, into this program.

Calum Johnson 1:50 Yeah. I think one of the things that stands out about you is you're like, you're a great educator, like explaining it and breaking it down for people. You really excel at that. Um, and we're gonna get to the TikTok stuff, but here's actually

Calum Johnson 2:03 really where I want to begin. I found a post, a Facebook post that you did in 2020, uh, so four years ago, and I want to read it out to you and then I just want to get your reaction to it.

Will Rivera 2:14 Mm-hmm.

Calum Johnson 2:15 So here's how it goes. November 3rd, 2020. "Three year- three years ago around this exact time I got arrested on a felony charge. I remember my mom crying because she couldn't afford the bail and the bail bond companies were gonna crush her with interest. I remember every year from 5 to 13 years old switching schools and going from apartment to apartment with my mom and little brothers. I remember seeing my mom so stressed and feeling worthless because I could not do anything to help our situation. I remember working at Steak 'n Shake, Panera, QT, Cracker Barrel, Burlington, et cetera, and getting fired from every single one. I thought something was wrong with me. Why can't I be consistent and go to work every day like normal people? That's when I realized it's because I was never meant to be that person. I was always a hustler by heart and wanting to give my mom the world has always been that chip on my shoulder that I needed to get past every obstacle I encountered on my eCommerce journey." And so you know what? When I read that, it sounds like to me in your story, entrepreneurship was almost like a form of survival. It was your way out. And so I want you to elaborate on that. Explain that to me. Like what was this, what was this story with entrepreneurship?

Will Rivera 3:38 Yeah, I mean for me it's like I never grew up wanting to, to be a business owner. I mean when I was in like middle school, high school, like my plan was you know what? I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna get a degree in computer science because, you know, I Google searched highest paying degree, computer science popped up. I was like all right, I'm gonna do that. Um, so I was gonna major in computer science, get a job and just, uh, really my goal was to just be able to help my mom out. 'Cause like I said, you know, from a, from a early age I wa- I watched my mom work very hard and not make a lot of money. So I understood that working hard doesn't equal making a lot of money. Um, but I thought maybe if I could bring a second income I could finally be able to help my mom get a house, 'cause she's never had a house until, until I bought her one because of entrepreneurship. So that was always my end goal. Um, before I decided to go to college I was actually playing basketball in high school and I thought that I was gonna get a basketball scholarship. That didn't end up working out and that's when I decided to, you know, pursue this computer science degree. But I had like a brief meeting with the advisor at the school and they were kind of showing me the, the journey that I would have to go through to get this degree and they were showing me all these math classes that I had to take and I was like, "Yeah, I mean I'm not good at math. Um, I don't, I don't think this is gonna work out for me." And then plus like I think it's just common sense for me. I started really thinking about it and I was like do I really want to wait four years to be able to help my mom out? I don't think I want to do that. Um, so I immediately started working. I got a job at an Amazon warehouse and through working at that warehouse and through analyzing my environment I kind of realized that a lot of these people have been working here for like five, 10 years and they're still struggling. So it reminded me of what I already knew. I was like wow, these people are working hard but they're still not making a lot of money. So do I want to participate in this cycle too? No, I need to figure something else out. So for me entrepreneurship wasn't like this thing that I wanted to do. It was, it was kind of like common sense to me. It was like okay-

Calum Johnson 5:30 Mm

Will Rivera 5:30 ... if I want to help my mom out, if I want to make a lot of money, if I want to make all these things that I'm saying I want to do actually come to fruition, I don't think getting a job that's paying me 10, 12, $15 an hour is gonna get me there. And I actually also don't think that going to college for four, five, six years and then hoping that I land a job is the right path either. I think that I actually have to go out there and learn a skill that's been proven to work and compensate well to other people. Um, I think it's my job to go out there and learn this skill and, and make a lot of money in, in my own terms and on my own time. And that's what I did. You know, I went on YouTube, started searching up how to make money, and I mean, I tried everything, you know. I flipped iPhones on eBay. I started a moving company. Um, I was doing affiliate marketing, like starting different websites, and then I got into Shopify, and that just seemed the most feasible to me because, uh, it just made sense to me how, like, I could list a product on my website for $20, get it from my supplier for 10, and then when people pay me, my supplier ships it to them, and I make the difference, right? So, uh, that was just a business that made sense to me, and I was seeing all these young kids on YouTube killing it with this, and this was back in 2018. So, um, I just pursued that, and I went a year without making any money, and then eventually I found a product, and it popped, and then I never got a job again. And then that kinda started my entrepreneurial journey into getting into other things like Amazon and then later taking that money and, you know, buying real estate and doing all the things that I do now.

Calum Johnson 7:02 Yeah. You know what? The, the sense of responsibility is interesting to me. It's interesting that a young kid at the time sees it as... And you even kinda said it, like, "It was my job to learn how to make money." And so I'm curious if you reflected on that and what, what your thoughts on that are. The fact that

Calum Johnson 7:25 at such an early age you saw it as your responsibility, that, like, I'm gonna get my mom and our family out of this situation. Like, why was that?

Will Rivera 7:34 I think it was more so, I never really thought about that, but I think it was more so the fact that I didn't have, like, my dad in my life, so I kinda, we kinda didn't have, like, a father, like, role model or, like, anyone to point us in the right direction. It was kind of... I kind of viewed the situation as, okay, my family's struggling. My little brothers are five, six years younger than me. I'm the one that's about to enter the workforce. Like, if anything's gonna change anytime soon, I have to be the one to do it because it's not like my mom is gonna switch career paths, or it's not like my mom, you know, has the, the capacity to take care of my two brothers and go start a business and do all this. So if anything's g- if anyone's gonna change the situation, it's gonna have to be me, and either I'm gonna have to do that or I'm gonna have to just be okay with, you know, letting my family struggle and hoping that maybe my brother can do something. 'Cause we don't have, like, a dad that's gonna save us or, like, someone that's gonna save us. It's like we either gotta do something or this is, this current situation that we're living in is gonna be our reality forever.

Calum Johnson 8:35 Mm.

Will Rivera 8:35 And that's, that's how I looked at it. So I just put it upon myself to, to figure out how I can get my family out of this situation and, you know, through seeing these videos on YouTube and then actually going to networking events and, and meeting people that were actually doing business and making a lot of money, it became real to me. And once I met someone in person that was making money online, I knew that I could do it too, you know, because, you know, what someone else is doing, you can do, too. You know, we're all human.

Calum Johnson 9:01 Mm.

Will Rivera 9:01 And I just knew that the, the only thing stopping me from getting those results was the information gap.

Calum Johnson 9:06 Mm.

Will Rivera 9:07 And that's when I became obsessed with learning.

Calum Johnson 9:09 Mm.

Will Rivera 9:09 'Cause I was like, "Wow, the only reason this person's making 100K a month and I'm broke is because he has information that I don't have. So if I could learn what he knows, I could be making the same amount of money." And that's, that's literally all it is. You know, most people are levels above us just because they have, like, a slither of more information than we do.

Calum Johnson 9:31 Mm.

Will Rivera 9:31 And, uh, it's actually scary because we only know what we know, and what's out there that we don't know could completely change our life like that.

Calum Johnson 9:39 Mm.

Will Rivera 9:39 So that's why I'm obsessed with, like, learning and, and just, you know, just obsessed with information.

Calum Johnson 9:44 You know what's interesting? I think, um, when you don't come from, like, a rich or successful background, right? So you don't have parents that, like, they have millions of dollars, and then their friends have millions of dollars, and even your school friends are, like, rich. I think a lot of the times we, like, we pedestalize wealth-

Will Rivera 10:04 Yeah

Calum Johnson 10:04 ... and people that become successful, and we almost think that they're fundamentally different from us.

Will Rivera 10:10 Right.

Calum Johnson 10:10 Like, there's something that they understand or some skill set which is unique to them that we can't replicate. And so you said something interesting, which is, like, once you had that realization that it was all about the knowledge gap, that you could do it, too, if you acquired the knowledge. Like, that moment is powerful.

Will Rivera 10:30 Yeah, it is.

Calum Johnson 10:30 And so c- can you speak about that moment? Like, what was the, what was the spark for that realization?

Will Rivera 10:37 I think it was more so just exposure. Like, one of my favorite quotes is, like, "You can only grow to what you've been exposed to." And for the longest, it's like you said, I didn't grow arou- I didn't grow up around other, like, rich people. It was pretty much like all of my friends were kinda in the same situation, too. Like, we're all struggling. We're all kinda just getting by. We're all just, you know, trying to go to college 'cause that's what we thought was the next step. Uh, nobody was doing anything, like, entrepreneurial or trying to start a business or trying to make more money. We were all just working work regular jobs. So I di- like, I saw that as, like, normal life. And then it wasn't until I dropped out of college and I started my first business with one of my business partners, name is Drew Evans, and he lived on, like, the other side of, uh, of Georgia from where I was living, like the richer side.

Calum Johnson 11:22 Mm.

Will Rivera 11:22 And, uh, it was ac- it's actually, like, one of the richest counties in, in Georgia. And, uh, I started hanging out with him, and he would take me to, like, his friends' houses and stuff, and I remember going over to the first friend's house that he took me to, and it was, like, crazy mansion. Uh, I'm talking to their parents, and their, the parents are always home. They're always present-

Calum Johnson 11:41 Mm

Will Rivera 11:41 ... because they have businesses that are just automated, just running. And I'm like, "This is crazy." And then he took me to another friend's house, and it was same thing, like big mansion, lake house, and I was like, wow, like, this is normal to them. Like, all of his friends are, like, rich. All of his friends are, are doing s- and all of his friends' parents are, are doing something big. And I was like, it's crazy how it's so different. Like, this place is 30 minutes away from where I lived, but the reality for these people over here is way different than the reality for the people over here. And as I started talking to, like, the parents o- of these kids and stuff, I realized that they all own businesses. It was like one guy owned a flooring company.

Calum Johnson 12:18 Mm.

Will Rivera 12:18 One guy had a landscaping company. One guy had a online business. And it's like, dang, all these people, they own businesses. Like, they- they're creating income. They're using leverage to make money. They're not trading their time for money. And, uh, that's when it all b- kind of became, like, to, to make sense for me.

Calum Johnson 12:34 Mm. You know, one of the things you said was, um, powerful even as you were just kinda listing off, uh, some of the things that those parents had, is the parents always being home.

Will Rivera 12:44 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 12:45 Like, and it, and it's interesting because, um, for the first, like, 10, 12 years of my life, I grew up with my mom and my older brother, and my mom was always, like, working-

Will Rivera 12:57 Yeah

Calum Johnson 12:57 ... to, like, support the family. And so you build this appreciation of just, like, seeing your parent at home.

Will Rivera 13:04 Right.

Calum Johnson 13:04 It seems like the smallest thing, but it's actually a big thing.

Will Rivera 13:06 Yeah, you, you appreciate that, and then also psychologically we don't notice it, but we start to, we start to kinda think that it's normal to work all day and that's how you make a living. So when we grow up, we think it's normal to work 40, 50, 60 hours a week because that's all we saw growing up. And a lot of people, like, because they've only been exposed to that, they think that's normal and, you know, you don't have to live life that way.

Calum Johnson 13:34 Mm.

Will Rivera 13:35 And it is crazy 'cause it's literally like if you're just exposed to how other people are living and how other people are making income, it'll change com- like, how you think completely.

Calum Johnson 13:46 Yeah. You know what? We spoke, we spoke a bit earlier about the, the sense of responsibility, of feeling like you had to make money for, like, the family, which is, especially at a young age, it's like a heavy burden to, like, to hold. And

Calum Johnson 14:02 I'm curious if there was ever a sense of just hopelessness. And the reason I say that, and I wanna read out this line again, "I remember working at Steak 'n Shake, Panera, QT, Cracker & Barrel, Burlington, and getting fired from every single one." Those are, like, five or six different jobs.

Will Rivera 14:22 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 14:22 [laughs] Like, is, was there ever a sense of, "I'm just not gonna get it done," like, "I'm just, it's not gonna happen?" Like, what were some of those early struggles?

Will Rivera 14:33 So while working those jobs, I realized, like, one, I didn't like being told what to do from people, not, not ... I didn't like being told what to do 'cause I knew the people that were in charge weren't smarter than me.

Calum Johnson 14:47 Mm.

Will Rivera 14:47 But because they had a higher position than me, they were able to fire me, they were able to talk to me certain ways, and I just didn't like that, number one. Number two, I didn't like the fact how I was being treated and how, like, what I was getting paid. So from, like, a early age, I kinda knew, like, you know, I'm not gonna be, I'm a terrible employee, so working for someone just isn't gonna work for me. Like, I'ma have to find out another way to make money. And so it kinda sparked when I was younger, but I didn't actually put in, in any action until I got that Amazon warehouse job after I graduated high school. 'Cause, um, I think people, they don't make moves towards achieving something great until they're either inspired or they're literally just desperate, like, back against the wall. And for me, it took my back being against the wall for me to actually start taking action towards, uh, you know, getting something done and, you know, doing something in business.

Calum Johnson 15:46 Yeah. You know what? Go, go deeper into that. Like, what was ... Take me to that moment. Like, what was the back against the wall?

Will Rivera 15:52 Yeah, so for me it was, so on top of, like, seeing my mom struggle pretty much all my life, when I graduated from high school, the day I graduated from high school my mom and my little brothers moved to Ohio because they just couldn't afford to live in Georgia anymore. It's cheaper in Ohio, so they moved over there. My mom thought that I was just gonna stay and go to community college, and I had a uncle that was living in the same county as me and he was letting me stay at his house. So I was staying, like, at, in the guest room of his house, and I was going to school every day from 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM, and then from 6:00 PM to 4:00 AM I was working at Amazon. So my life was literally just school and then work and then wake up and then do it all over again, and it completely drained me. Like, I gained a lot of weight 'cause I was only eating bad foods. Um, I wasn't going to the gym 'cause I literally barely had any time to, like, do anything. Um, I lost my social life. I didn't talk to my friends or anything like that 'cause I was just all work. And it got to the point, and I didn't have a car either, so, like, half of my checks were going into Uber to get to school, and then from school Ubering to get to work. And, uh, the warehouse that I was working at was, like, 40 minutes away from where I lived. So, and it got to a point where I was like, you know, like, I can't, like, I can't live life like this. And what made me more depressed is I would see the people that I was working with, and that was their reality. Like, they had been there for five, six, seven years.

Calum Johnson 17:16 Mm.

Will Rivera 17:16 And I've only been there for, like, a month or two, and I'm already just ... I've always been, like, a long-term thinker. I'm like, nah, like, I gotta get out of here, like, immediately. Even though I need an income, like, I, I can't be here. I can't be in this environment.

Calum Johnson 17:28 Mm.

Will Rivera 17:29 So, and then at the same time, you know, my mom, I remember a specific moment. My mom called me one day and, uh, she said that she was having a surgery done and, um, she needed help, like, paying for the surgery, and I didn't have enough money to help her. And I remember that moment just being real big for me 'cause I was like, dang, I don't ever wanna not be able to help my mom again.

Calum Johnson 17:49 Mm.

Will Rivera 17:49 Like, I haven't been able to help her this long and then she calls me because she thinks I'm making money, but I'm really not making [laughs] that much money at my job and I'm still not able to help her. That kinda was, like, the last straw for me. I was like, nah, like, I gotta figure something out.

Calum Johnson 18:02 Mm.

Will Rivera 18:03 So as I was working, that's when I started doing my research on YouTube and just trying out all these side hustles, 'cause I knew that, um, I knew that to, to gain wealth and to make a lot of money it, it would have to be from a business. Like, I wasn't gonna do anything working at this job. And eventually I started making money online through the things that I was learning on YouTube, and as soon as I made my first dollar online, uh, I got another job at LA Fitness and I quit my Amazon job. So I went from making like $12 an hour at Amazon to making like $10 an hour or like $9 an hour at LA Fitness, but I had more time now.

Calum Johnson 18:39 Mm.

Will Rivera 18:40 So instead of working from 6:00 PM to 4:00 AM, I was working from 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM and I could focus, and I dropped out of school. So I [laughs] completely got out of school, got the LA Fitness job, and now I had all of my afternoon and night to focus on this e-commerce business, and that's eventually how I was able to completely stop working-

Calum Johnson 18:59 Mm

Will Rivera 18:59 ... 'cause my online business started taking off.

Calum Johnson 19:02 Yeah. You know what I think is really interesting? You mentioned it even with your mom, which was, like, from watching your mom struggle and working so much growing up, you started to realize that hard work doesn't equal wealth. And as I was just listening to you speak now, the word that came to my mind is, like, space, and the reason I say space is I think a lot of people, and I've been in this situation, and sometimes it gets like this even with this business for me. Um, it's like you just don't have enough, like, thinking space in your life. And so when you, when you explain, like, I was going to school and then sh- straight as I got home from school, I'm then working, and it's like there's not even any time for thought to, like, plot an escape, to like-

Will Rivera 19:51 Yeah

Calum Johnson 19:51 ... think long term. How can you think long term if every hour of your day is, like, occupied? Um, and so it's interesting that, like, once you started to create that space in your life, and even taking the pay cut, right, of going from

Calum Johnson 20:10 what you were earning at Amazon to the LA Fitness, was like it started to just give you time in your day that you could even plot, like, these more longer term visions.

Will Rivera 20:20 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 20:20 And I think that part of the story is severely underrated of, like, step one, just create space. Like, create space so that something good can happen. You know what?

Will Rivera 20:33 Yeah, it's, it's understanding-

Calum Johnson 20:34 Go ahead

Will Rivera 20:34 ... opportunity cost too, 'cause, like, some people, they won't be willing to take a pay cut to make millions of dollars later. Um, you know, some people aren't willing to... And it, and a lot, a lot of times it's ego. A lot of times it's putting your ego to the side and being like, "Look, I'm getting paid more here, but I'ma actually have more time if I go over here. And, you know, even though I'll get paid less, you know, I'll have more time to, to focus on something else." And I say this all the time, like, remove the ego and you'll add some zeros 'cause a lot of people let their ego get in the way of making a lot of money.

Calum Johnson 21:05 Mm.

Will Rivera 21:05 You know, they put their pri- if you put your pride to the side you'll make a lot more money, and that's what I had to do a lot of times.

Calum Johnson 21:10 Mm. Do you have any, when you say that, is there an experience that, that comes to mind that kinda crystallizes that for you? 'Cause I think especially as, like, men, like young men, like, the ego is always there.

Will Rivera 21:24 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 21:25 And you're, you're kinda, like, trying to keep it in check, but sometimes it, like, it goes over the edge and it does start to, to be detrimental. Like, is there an experience that you think back to where it was like the ego was, like, getting the best of me in that situation?

Will Rivera 21:42 I mean, for me it's like, one, I've always been a, a very introverted person, so I've always kinda kept to myself, and I've always been a competitor too, you know, playing sports. So I did have, like, ego issues. Um, but I understood that the, the thing that I wanted most in life was to be able to buy my mom a house, and I knew that I didn't have the skills or capabilities or the information to be able to do it at the current time. So I had to put my ego to the side and seek help. As men, we don't really seek help. We think it's corny or we think, like, it's just not a manly thing to do.

Calum Johnson 22:17 Mm.

Will Rivera 22:18 So I put my pride to the side and I started going to networking events and literally just pulling up to the networking event. And, uh, I remember the first networking event that I went to, we had a card. You would get a card when you walked in, and you would write down what you currently do and then what you're, like, looking for. And I remember going and literally in what I cur- where it says, "What do you currently do?" I wasn't doing anything. So I literally wrote, "Look, right now I have a job at LA Fitness and I'm just looking to be a sponge. I just wanna learn from all of you guys because I wanna get out of my current situation, and I know that I can benefit from learning from people that are better than me or that are doing more than me."

Calum Johnson 22:54 Mm.

Will Rivera 22:55 And, uh, that's all I had to offer, and it's like, if you guys need help with anything, all I have is time, so that's what I have to offer [laughs] is literally just time and hard work.

Calum Johnson 23:03 Mm.

Will Rivera 23:04 And, uh, and that's, and that, that helped me tremendously 'cause at that networking event, that's where I met my first business partner who was making money online. He was actually the host of the event, and I started my first online business with him.

Calum Johnson 23:17 Mm.

Will Rivera 23:17 And even to this day, like, I still put my ego to the side. You know, every, every single time I meet someone that's doing better than me or they know a skill that I don't know or they know something that I wanna know, you know, I'm quick to, to ask them, like, "Yo, how can I learn from you?" Like, "How much do you charge to, to, to learn this?" Like, "How can I learn more from you?" You know, I'm, I'm big on paying for courses, paying for mentorships because it's what allowed me to level up in life, and I think it's... You know, time traveling isn't real, but it is because what took someone 10 years to, to master, you might be able to learn it in 30 minutes.

Calum Johnson 23:52 Mm.

Will Rivera 23:52 And to me, that's time traveling. [laughs] I'm a big-

Calum Johnson 23:55 Yeah

Will Rivera 23:55 ... advocate of that.

Calum Johnson 23:56 Yeah. That's a sick line. That's a sick bar. Time travel isn't real, but it is. I like that. I like that. Okay. You know, one of the, one of the things that you mentioned earlier, so you realize that you're, like, a hustler. Like, that's, that's your thing. Like, you're not meant to work a job. And even for people listening, I think there's a lot of people in that spot-

Will Rivera 24:17 Yeah

Calum Johnson 24:17 ... where they're like In order to achieve and meet their ambition, they know that they need to have a business.

Will Rivera 24:25 Right.

Calum Johnson 24:25 Now, having that realization and then actually building a successful business is two different things.

Will Rivera 24:33 Mm.

Calum Johnson 24:34 And it was interesting because even when we, uh, when we spoke, like before today, one of the things that you mentioned was like those initial stages of building like the first business that you were doing was so like fucking difficult.

Will Rivera 24:52 They're brutal.

Calum Johnson 24:53 So difficult. And so can you speak

Calum Johnson 24:57 to that? Like, what were some of the difficulties that you were feeling at that time when it came to building a business?

Will Rivera 25:03 Well, one, it was more so the biggest, the biggest thing was I didn't know anybody that was doing what I was trying to do. So I had ... Like, I couldn't look at anyone and be inspired by them or I couldn't look at anyone as a proof of concept. And that was broken when I went to that networking event and I met my first business partner, and he was actually making money online. And he was able to show me, like, "Look, bro, I'm making money on the internet." And that was the hardest thing for me. Once I actually met him and he, and I found someone that was actually doing it and I had that proof of concept, everything else became easier, but that actually was the only thing that was hard.

Calum Johnson 25:38 Mm.

Will Rivera 25:38 Because once I actually met someone in person that was doing what I was seeing on YouTube, because on YouTube, you know, everything just seems sweet. It's like, you know, yeah, he could be telling the truth, but he could not be. You know, you never know. So it's like when you meet someone in person that's doing it, it just hits different.

Calum Johnson 25:54 Mm.

Will Rivera 25:54 And for me, once I had that proof of concept, I understood that, you know, this is real and I just have to make it work. And I don't care how long it's gonna take me, like I'm gonna just ... It's, it's gonna work or, like it has to work or it has to work. That was pretty much my mindset.

Calum Johnson 26:08 Mm.

Will Rivera 26:08 And I literally went a year not making any money. I went a year, I probably tested over 50 products. All of them failed. And my mindset was always like, "Okay, the next one's gonna hit. The next one's gonna g- get me out." [laughs] Like, I never gave up on the vision because I knew the alternative. It was either I make this work or I go back and get a job and I don't fulfill on any of the things that I said I was gonna do.

Calum Johnson 26:30 Mm.

Will Rivera 26:31 So it's like i- if, if that's your alternative, like why, why would you, why would you stop?

Calum Johnson 26:35 Yeah. It goes back to what you mentioned earlier, like people are driven, like at the intense level, like people are driven either by desperation or inspiration.

Will Rivera 26:43 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 26:44 Um, you know what, just, just for context for people, explain what was, when you say making money online, like what was the business at that early point? Like, what was it that you were doing?

Will Rivera 26:54 Yeah. So my, the first business I started was a, I started a distance bracelet store, basically. So I had a, I was selling a product called the distance bracelet, which is a white beaded bracelet with one black bead on it, and then it was a black beaded bracelet with one white bead on it, and it was like a relationship product. So like the girlfriend would wear one, boyfriend would wear one, and it was just trending on the internet. And I created a Shopify store. I put that product on my, on my store, and it was selling for like $2 on AliExpress, which was one of my suppliers overseas. Um, and I just listed it on my website for free, but my shipping was $10. So I was running a free plus shipping model, and we were able to do over six figures with that one product. And you know, I, I tell people all the time, like you don't have to be a genius to make a lot of money online, you just have to be early. And I was early in the Shopify dropshipping e- days. Like, if you look at my ads that I was making, my ads were terrible. Like, I had an ad of just the product and like emojis and then it said swipe up at the bottom. [laughs]

Calum Johnson 27:53 Mm.

Will Rivera 27:53 Like, they were terrible. Like, they would not work today. Um, and I've been able to make a lot of money because I've been early in a lot of things.

Calum Johnson 27:59 Mm.

Will Rivera 28:00 And I was early with the Shopify dropshipping, made a lot of money there. Later transitioned into Amazon during COVID, made a lot of money there. I was early again. And then, um, you know, I know we're gonna touch on the TikTok stuff too, but right now it's like, it's early for that too.

Calum Johnson 28:15 Mm.

Will Rivera 28:15 And, uh, even, even when it comes to crypto, you know, I turned $2,000 into $3 million with NFTs. I didn't even know what an NFT was really when I made that money, but I was early.

Calum Johnson 28:25 Mm.

Will Rivera 28:25 So it's like you don't have to be a genius to make a lot of money, you just have to be early.

Calum Johnson 28:30 Mm. You know what? I feel like it's a good way to put it. It's like early and execute. 'Cause a lot of people are actually aware of the thing early-

Will Rivera 28:36 Right

Calum Johnson 28:36 ... but they don't do anything.

Will Rivera 28:38 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 28:39 It's like you, you execute very quickly on the, on what needs to be done.

Will Rivera 28:44 Right. And it, and even if, if you're not early, you just have to be better.

Calum Johnson 28:47 Mm.

Will Rivera 28:47 But being early allows you to, to not have to be as good as the people that enter the market later.

Calum Johnson 28:53 Mm.

Will Rivera 28:53 You know, 'cause e- for example, Shopify dropshipping and Amazon and all that stuff still works, but you just have to be better now to make

Will Rivera 29:00 it work.

Calum Johnson 29:00 Mm. You know, I wanna, I wanna get into, um, the TikTok stuff and the opportunity there. Before we do, you mentioned something which is the reason why it was so difficult in the initial stages of starting a business is that there wasn't someone that you knew that you could almost like kind of model-

Will Rivera 29:21 Yeah

Calum Johnson 29:21 ... what you were doing off. And so you mentioned meeting like your first business partner and him kinda being the inspiration. What was it that you were observing? Like, what was, what was it in that first year that you were seeing him do that kind of, it made things click? Like, what, what specifically was it?

Will Rivera 29:41 It was more so that it was just a guy from this kinda the same side of town as me. He was the same age as me, and he was making money in a way that I had never seen before because everyone else I knew other than him was just working a regular job.

Calum Johnson 29:57 Mm.

Will Rivera 29:57 So that was for the ... So seeing him was me realizing for the first time in my life that a young kid like me could make money in a non-traditional way.

Calum Johnson 30:08 Mm.

Will Rivera 30:08 And make a lot of money in a non-traditional way. So that was really the biggest thing for me. And then even through meeting other people at that networking event, you know, I was, I met someone that owned a restaurant and he was like 25, 26. And to me, like, being a business owner was such a far, kinda like a far-fetched thing 'cause I just had never really met any business owners. Um, and you know, when I met him, he started telling me, like, "Yo, you need to read this book, you need to read that book." So I started reading books. I started reading Think and Grow Rich. I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. And I remember specifically reading Rich Dad Poor Dad and learning about leverage, and that was like a big thing for me. I was like... I remember one- in one of the pages of that book, he talks about... He says something like, "You know, the person that's making the most money in the gym when you go to the gym is the person that's not there," and he's talking about the gym owner. And for some reason that like, like lit a light bulb in my head. I was like, "Wow, he's right." Like, the gym owner is never at the gym, but he makes the most money and it's because he has the most leverage. So just, you know, learning things like that just, I became obsessed with, with business.

Calum Johnson 31:12 Mm. No, that's good, that's good. And it's interesting 'cause, um, Alex Hormozi has this thing where he says, if you haven't reached a certain money number, so whether that's making like $10,000, $100,000, a million, whatever the number is, it's usually because of two reasons. It's either skills or belief. And a lot of the times we focus on skills, right? Like, people wanna get better at sales or marketing or, you know, data analytics, whatever the thing is. The thing that we often ignore are the beliefs, especially the limiting beliefs. And so when you, when you're around certain people, you start to become kinda used to it. Like, you start to think like, "I really can do this too." Like, that belief is building. Um, okay. You know what? Let's move on to, let's move into TikTok. And when we spoke before this you said something that was really interesting to me. You said, what's happening right now with TikTok Shop is almost reminiscent of those early days with like drop shipping and eCommerce and the opportunity. Um, and so I think it's exciting for people and I, I wanna get into it. To begin,

Calum Johnson 32:24 what is TikTok Shop? Like, just explain kinda the background to it.

Will Rivera 32:28 Yeah. So TikTok Shop is just TikTok's marketplace. So it's kinda like Amazon but on TikTok. So TikTok has, you know, billions of users and they did a study that actually 40% of the users on TikTok shop on TikTok Shop. So 40% of the users have bought something on TikTok Shop. And, uh, another data, like a data point is, uh, right now Americans are spending $70 million a day on TikTok Shop. So it's just like a big marketplace that TikTok has where brands, like brands that we all know like C4 Essentia, like these big billion-dollar brands, they can place their products on TikTok Shop just like how they place their products on Amazon and their websites, et cetera. And what's interesting is TikTok Shop isn't just an opportunity for brands to get a lot of exposure to their products, but it's a huge opportunity for people like me and you who maybe we don't have a big brand, we don't have a product to sell, but we can be affiliates of these brands that are selling something on TikTok. So like let's say for example this mic. Like, you have a Shure mic right here. That's a good brand. They probably have this mic on TikTok Shop because all big brands, they have their products on there because it's free exposure to them. You could simply make a video of you sitting in this chair using this mic talking about why you like this mic and talking about why you use this mic for this podcast, and then you can tag this product under your TikTok video, and every sale you make from that video you'll get a commission. And let's say Shure's paying a $5 commission on every sale. You know, you get 1,000 sales, you just made a lot of money. And the cool thing is TikTok actually pushes all of the videos that have a product tagged to them because they want you to m- they want you to make money because they'll make money too. They get a percentage.

Calum Johnson 34:18 Mm.

Will Rivera 34:18 So it's just like, it's literally the digital gold rush. Like, I've seen kids that are 16, 17, 18 years old make videos about the, the most random things like vitamin D3, there's a colon cleanser on TikTok, like, or their favorite energy drink, and make 10, 20, 30,000 off one video.

Calum Johnson 34:37 Mm.

Will Rivera 34:37 And it's literally like digital real estate because once that video starts making money, it doesn't really stop making money. Uh, you'll keep-- It'll keep getting views and people will keep buying over time. So it's like every video you post is like a rental property.

Calum Johnson 34:51 Mm. That's a good way to put it. And, um, you know what? I was actually speaking with a friend. He's like a creator on TikTok. He spends like a lot of time on it. Um, has like a few hundred thousand followers on TikTok.

Will Rivera 35:03 Nice.

Calum Johnson 35:03 And I was getting him just to break it down to me, like what is the significance of TikTok Shop? And he basically said it removes the friction between content and product.

Will Rivera 35:15 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 35:15 So if you think about like Instagram for example, right? A lot of people or creators when they're trying to, uh, market products will do like the link in bio. But even with the link in bio there's so many like steps between someone clicking on that and checkout.

Will Rivera 35:32 Right.

Calum Johnson 35:32 Whereas on TikTok Shop it's like so seamless, the experience of seeing, uh, the product in the video to checkout.

Will Rivera 35:42 Right.

Calum Johnson 35:42 And because it's so seamless it's like it leads to way more sales.

Will Rivera 35:46 Yeah. And it also removes the friction of being an affiliate because like let's say for example, you know, you- we always see people on, on social media that they might be like a Gymshark sponsor or like a Alphalete sponsor, or they might be sponsored by some type of brand. And usually to acquire those sponsorships and to be able to be affiliates of those brands you need very big social media followings. But now with TikTok Shop you c- anyone can be an affiliate. You could have 1,000 followers and if you really like a product you can be an affiliate for that product on TikTok Shop and make tens of thousands of dollars.

Calum Johnson 36:20 Mm.

Will Rivera 36:21 You know, so it's, it's- Brought the playing field to, to an easy level for everybody.

Calum Johnson 36:26 Yeah. You know what? Okay, let's get, let's get deeper into the, the tactics of, of how people can do it and kinda leverage the opportunity right now. Um,

Calum Johnson 36:34 so let's say this, 'cause I think most of the people that are on TikTok or social media in general are consumers. So they purely go on there to, like, watch content.

Will Rivera 36:43 Right.

Calum Johnson 36:44 And so let's say that I'm sitting here and I'm listening to this and I'm a consumer. Like, I- I'm on TikTok, I'm active on it, you know, I'm engaging with content. I'm not really producing anything. But I'm intrigued with the opportunity on TikTok Shop and, like, being an affiliate. What is step number one? Like, do I need to become a master content creator? Is it about finding the right product? Like, when you're speaking with people, where do you advise them to start?

Will Rivera 37:16 Yeah. So I mean, the first thing that you're gonna wanna do is there's this website called Kalo Data. So it's K-A-L-O data.com and it's a product research tool for TikTok. So when you go on there it'll show you, like, the top 10 products that are selling on TikTok Shop, but it'll also show you the top 10 creators. And what that allows you to do is one, it allows you to know what's trending on TikTok, like, what are people buying? And it also lets you know, okay, what creators are killing it and what videos are they posting that are working.

Calum Johnson 37:44 Mm.

Will Rivera 37:45 So, like, I might be able to click on a creator on Kalo Data and it'll show me the exact-

Calum Johnson 37:49 Mm

Will Rivera 37:49 ... video that they're using to make over whatever they're making, 10, 20, 30K a month, and now you're able to mimic that video. And even in, in Kalo Data you can even download the video script. Like, it'll give you the transcript of everything they said on the video. And it gets crazier because now what you can do, like, let's say you're an introverted person, you don't really wanna be on camera. You can use tools like, for example, ElevenLabs, which is an AI vo- voiceover tool, and you can download the script from Kalo Data and just put it into ElevenLabs and now you have a voiceover of that script. And if you wanna change it up, you can take that script, put it into ChatGPT and get a completely new one, put it into ElevenLabs and now you have a voiceover. You go to Midjourney, which is another AI tool, and now you have pictures for the video.

Calum Johnson 38:34 Mm.

Will Rivera 38:34 And you literally just created an AI-generated video that can make you money on TikTok without having to show your face.

Calum Johnson 38:40 Mm.

Will Rivera 38:40 And, like, I personally know people that are doing 100, 200 grand a month without showing their face, just AI-generated videos on TikTok promoting different products.

Calum Johnson 38:49 Yeah. Okay, you know what? Let, let, let's go deeper into it. So I go to Kalo Data and I can see, like, the top 10 products that were selling on TikTok for that day.

Will Rivera 38:57 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 38:57 In t- from a strategic perspective, do I almost want to exactly copy what tho- what's happening with those, uh, best-selling products? 'Cause I can almost see both sides of the argument, right?

Will Rivera 39:12 Right.

Calum Johnson 39:12 I can see it as these products already have demand and, like, are selling so they're kind of, uh, they're legitimized in that way.

Will Rivera 39:20 Right.

Calum Johnson 39:20 But then I can also see the other side which is, like, kind of what you were talking about earlier when you spoke about being early to something-

Will Rivera 39:26 Right

Calum Johnson 39:26 ... which is, like, the value is in the thing that n- not many people are doing.

Will Rivera 39:32 Right.

Calum Johnson 39:33 And so what is kinda the mindset there? Like, am I hunting for a product that's popular but not too popular? Am I just going after the one that's, like, number one, two, and three on that list? Like, where, like-

Will Rivera 39:45 Yeah, I mean, I would definitely still try to advertise the products that are super popular because TikTok has a very, like, very, like, monkey see, monkey do mentality where it's like if a product is trending crazy, even though it's very popular, people will still buy it, like, every single day. Um, I think, like, the number one hottest product on TikTok right now is doing, like, 200K a day in sales with, with all the creators that are promoting it. So I mean, there's always gonna be room for another person to make money, several people to make money. But, uh, there's also a feature in Kalo Data where you can see, like, the things that are on the rise.

Calum Johnson 40:20 Mm.

Will Rivera 40:20 And obviously if you catch something that's on the rise and you're the person that makes the best video for it you'll make a lot of money. And there's also the strategy of, you know, not even paying attention to what's trending, but also just making videos on thi- on products that you actually use and products that you actually like.

Calum Johnson 40:35 Mm.

Will Rivera 40:35 Because then you can make a very, like, transparent, authentic video that could hit the algorithm and do well for you too. And on top of that, you know, you don't have to be s- like, a crazy, crazy content creator because TikTok Shop does boost every single post that, uh, has a, a product attached to it.

Calum Johnson 40:54 Yeah. You know, one other thing that my, uh, friend mentioned, he said if you actually look at a lot of the kinda like top-selling products, and this is why it's important to also understand, like, who is the audience of not only the content, but then the product. He was like, "It's a lot of,

Calum Johnson 41:10 um, products that are kinda, like, targeted towards women."

Will Rivera 41:14 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 41:14 Can you, can you, can you talk about the significance of, like, un- almost understanding the demographic of who you're trying to hit?

Will Rivera 41:22 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 41:23 Um, 'cause I can imagine people being like ... It kinda needs to be a fit with who you are, like, with how you can even tell the story and, like, uh, produce the content. Like, can you actually hit that audience?

Will Rivera 41:34 Right. I mean, it, it just depends what strategy you're using. I mean, for sure women are, they're more emotional buyers than men and when it comes to selling products on, like, a short-form, like, media platform like TikTok, the women are probably gonna buy more than men 'cause men might need more than 10 seconds to think about whether they want something or not.

Calum Johnson 41:52 Mm.

Will Rivera 41:52 Whereas, like, a girl might see something and want it and she'll just immediately buy it. So that is a good strategy to use if, if, if you wanna do that. Um, but also it doesn't really matter, like, what your personality is or what it is that you like if you're just trying to make money on TikTok. Like, I'll give you an example. Um, there's a, a product that's trending right now and it's, it's like a back massager. So you just put it on you like this, massages your back, and Kai Cenat was actually using it on stream and there was someone that just clipped the stream and then threw text on the top and then tagged the product on the bottom. And that video, because it's a clip from Kai Cenat's stream, got like 2 million views and he's printing like 5K a day right now.

Calum Johnson 42:30 Mm.

Will Rivera 42:31 Didn't show his face, didn't even talk about the product. He just clipped a stream where someone was using the product, and he's able to profit off of it now.

Calum Johnson 42:40 Yeah. You know, I, I wanna go, I wanna go deep into the content angle of it, and I think one thing, you know, um, even from the first episode that we did, I know that you, like, really understand content, um, and, like, how to do content that not only can go viral and, like, intrigues people, but can also lead to sales.

Will Rivera 43:04 Right.

Calum Johnson 43:04 And so when you kinda see what's happening right now on TikTok, what

Calum Johnson 43:11 is the content? Like, what is great content that can also lead to sales? Because I can see people doing things which is like it gets views but no conversions.

Will Rivera 43:21 Right.

Calum Johnson 43:21 So what is kinda the, the differentiator where it's like not only are you going viral, but you're displaying the product in a way that people actually wanna buy it?

Will Rivera 43:31 Yeah, so in, in TikTok, it's more so if you're gonna create an AI-generated video, usually, like, the more f- funny videos will, will do better on the algorithm, but you can't be, like, hard selling it too much.

Calum Johnson 43:43 Mm.

Will Rivera 43:43 Um, the best videos that do-- The videos that do the best on TikTok Shop are very, like, authentic and genuine. Um, and the most important part is the hook. If you don't have a good hook, then your video's not gonna go viral. So if you have a good hook, your video's gonna get a lot of views, but you also can't, like, hard sell the product. You have to kinda, like, kinda, like, ease your way into it or, or talk about the product in a way where you're not making it seem perfect, but you're making it seem like it's a, it's a, it's a good product that you should get, depending on, like, the demographic.

Calum Johnson 44:12 Mm.

Will Rivera 44:13 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 44:13 Can you, can you almost explain the, like, the basics of content creation? Like when you say a hook, for example, like-

Will Rivera 44:18 Yeah

Calum Johnson 44:18 ... what is that? What is a good hook? What's a bad hook? Like, what's the significance of it?

Will Rivera 44:24 Yeah, really just any, any three se- like, the first three seconds of the video would be considered, I guess, the hook. So any line that you could put there that would, that would create some curiosity or would get the audience to wanna watch more of the video would be a good hook. And again, you can use AI to help you with this 'cause, I mean, I'm sure, like, you guys watching, you, you may not be, like, a copywriter or, like, someone crazy with content, but you have ChatGPT at, at your, your access, you know? So you can literally go on ChatGPT and type in, you know, "Hey, I'm selling this product. What would be a good hook, a three-second hook that I could use in my video script?" And then it'll print out all these hooks that you can use, and then now you have a hook.

Calum Johnson 45:02 Mm.

Will Rivera 45:03 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 45:03 And, and to bring it, also to bring it to you, uh, 'cause like I said, you're effective at doing it, what were kind of ... Like, how did you get good at, uh, producing content? Because I think for a lot of people it's not, like, a natural thing to, like, just turn on a camera and, like, be able to speak-

Will Rivera 45:20 Right

Calum Johnson 45:20 ... for, like, 30 seconds and 60 seconds.

Will Rivera 45:22 [laughs]

Calum Johnson 45:23 And it's interesting.

Will Rivera 45:24 Right.

Calum Johnson 45:24 So, like, what was that process for you personally of getting incrementally better at, like, making these videos?

Will Rivera 45:32 Yeah, I mean, for me, I was really bad at it, and it literally just took repetition. Like, I was really bad at it before I became good at it.

Calum Johnson 45:39 Mm.

Will Rivera 45:39 Um, and then just over time, like, if you go on my YouTube channel and you watch my oldest video from, like, six years ago, like, it's terrible. I can barely talk on camera. So for me, it just took time. Uh, I think with TikTok it's a lot easier because the videos are a lot shorter, and you don't have to show your face on it, which I think most people, they're not ... They don't do good on video because they're insecure maybe on, about how they look on video. But if you don't actually have to show your face, then that changes a lot of things.

Calum Johnson 46:06 Mm.

Will Rivera 46:07 If you have a script and you know exactly what to say and you're reading it, that also changes a lot of things from, like, going off the cuff, off the dome on what you're gonna say on the video.

Calum Johnson 46:15 Mm.

Will Rivera 46:15 So, uh, it's, it's very ... It's a different style on TikTok for sure. But for me, yeah, I, I started recording longer form videos six years ago, and they just got better over time-

Calum Johnson 46:25 Mm

Will Rivera 46:25 ... just through repetition. You know, I don't, I don't, I really don't think there's anything that can cheat, like, consistency-

Calum Johnson 46:30 Mm

Will Rivera 46:30 ... just doing something, like, over and over and over again.

Calum Johnson 46:33 Was there anyone that you, like, you looked at? I'm just thinking back to what you were mentioning in the beginning that the business, like, even when you first started your business, the success kinda came when you had that person who was, like, the inspiration that you could look to that was, like, the model.

Will Rivera 46:50 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 46:50 When it comes to content creation, was there a person for that?

Will Rivera 46:55 When it came to content for, like, my style content, I looked at people like ... I, I really admired, uh, Tai Lopez's videos-

Calum Johnson 47:04 Mm

Will Rivera 47:04 ... simply because all of his stuff was off the cuff. Like, all of his stuff was just like this-

Calum Johnson 47:09 Yeah

Will Rivera 47:09 ... or like this, and he's talking. No edits. And he would get bill- like, he had over a billion views on an ad.

Calum Johnson 47:15 Mm.

Will Rivera 47:15 So I was like, "Dang," like, "how can this guy just go off the cuff off this and just, like, know all of ..." Like, he would just pull quotes from everywhere, from, like, different books and just memorize all that stuff. But I understood that that, that comes from repetition.

Calum Johnson 47:28 Mm.

Will Rivera 47:28 There's no way that you can cheat your way through that.

Calum Johnson 47:31 Yeah.

Will Rivera 47:31 You know, so, uh, I, I tried to, like, mimic his, his style content.

Calum Johnson 47:35 Yeah. You know what? I, I, um, I really like that point. I know that we hear a lot of times, like, people say the consistency thing, but it can't be underestimated. Like, a lot of the people that ... It's very difficult to be at an elite level naturally at a skill. Like, most people that you're seeing that are at the forefront, like, if they're selling the most product or they're getting the most views, they've had some sort of exposure to doing the thing. Like, they've been doing it.

Will Rivera 48:04 Right.

Calum Johnson 48:04 Um, even, like, rappers, music artists that you see that are at, like, the top of the charts, they've been making songs since they were kids.

Will Rivera 48:14 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 48:14 Like, it didn't just happen overnight.

Will Rivera 48:15 And if you listen to their old songs, they're trash.

Calum Johnson 48:17 Yeah.

Will Rivera 48:17 And they'll tell you that too.

Calum Johnson 48:19 Yeah.

Will Rivera 48:19 [laughs] Yeah.

Calum Johnson 48:20 I remember hearing, um, an interview with Drake, and they were asking him, like, if you listen to some of, like, the earlier Drake songs, the way that he would, like, enunciate his words and shit was completely different.

Will Rivera 48:33 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 48:34 Um, and so a lot of the times, like- We see the finished product. Like, we see the person who's successful, who's like the finished article, but you don't see all of the steps before that where like they're recording and they've had... I've done this. They've had to record the same bit like 30 times 'cause they can't get the words right.

Will Rivera 48:53 Mm-hmm.

Calum Johnson 48:54 And they deleted the 29 and you saw the 30th and were like, "Oh my God, they're just naturally incredible-

Will Rivera 49:00 Yeah

Calum Johnson 49:00 ... at video." It's like not the case.

Will Rivera 49:02 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 49:03 Um-

Will Rivera 49:03 I saw something on Twitter like that where, uh, someone posted like Iman Gadzhi's, like raw footage.

Calum Johnson 49:09 Oh, yeah. I saw that.

Will Rivera 49:10 He just like kept messing up over and over and over and over again 'cause that's how it be.

Calum Johnson 49:14 Mm.

Will Rivera 49:14 But then when you watch like his YouTube videos, it's just like flawless like the whole time.

Calum Johnson 49:17 Yeah.

Will Rivera 49:17 Just smooth.

Calum Johnson 49:18 Yeah.

Will Rivera 49:19 And it's like reality versus like what you actually see, like the end production.

Calum Johnson 49:22 Yeah. No, it's such a, it's such a good point. Okay, you know what? Let, let's, let's break it down in terms of, uh, how someone can start to see success in this, in the, in the TikTok affiliate. If I'm looking,

Calum Johnson 49:37 if I'm looking to start making like my first $10,000 doing this, I'm curious, like what does my life look like on the day-to-day of producing these videos for TikTok? Like, am I doing like 10 videos a day and then one is hitting? Like, the people that you've seen that are successful-

Will Rivera 49:59 Yeah

Calum Johnson 49:59 ... like, what is their routine? Like, what is it that they were doing to get to that first kinda like 10K a month pretty regularly?

Will Rivera 50:05 Yeah, I mean, when it comes to this business, I would say quality is better than quantity, you know, and just making sure that your video's actually good. You know? And, and when I say good, I'm not talking about highly edited or like highly, like high production. Nothing, nothing like that, 'cause that, that actually doesn't really do well on TikTok. Like, the more authentic it looks, the better. But just making sure that you have a good hook on these videos, making sure that you're giving, you know, some type of value in these videos, um, that matters the most, so like really getting your script right if you're making the video yourself or if you're using ChatGPT and AI to make the video, still doing your due diligence and making sure that the script is good and that the video looks good. But, um, you know, obviously the more you post, the higher chances you have of, of making money, but it's like just like a balance of quality and quantity. But I would say posting like three to five videos a day is good.

Calum Johnson 50:52 Okay.

Will Rivera 50:53 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 50:53 See, and to be fair, like I think for someone that's like, they're not even in the position where they're really making videos on TikTok.

Will Rivera 50:59 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 51:00 Three to five videos a day, that's like, that's like a quantity of, uh, content. And to be honest, it's actually a good thing as well because of what we were speaking about earlier, which is the more repetitions you get-

Will Rivera 51:12 Yeah

Calum Johnson 51:12 ... you'll get better at the craft.

Will Rivera 51:14 Yeah, and it's like three to five videos a day that are like 30 seconds long, and I'm only saying do three to five a day until one of them pops off.

Calum Johnson 51:21 Mm.

Will Rivera 51:21 'Cause once one of them pops off, now you can make different variations of that video, 'cause you know that, that concept works.

Calum Johnson 51:28 Mm.

Will Rivera 51:29 But it's kinda like when I, in my early Amazon days and even Shopify days, you know, I would be testing a bunch of products and, you know, it was work. You know, I'm not gonna lie. I was working, you know, testing all these products. But then eventually when one product would hit, one product would work, it's like my life became a lot easier. It's like, okay, this product's selling and it's selling every day and I'm making money from it every day, and now I kinda just optimize.

Calum Johnson 51:55 Mm.

Will Rivera 51:55 It's kinda the same thing with TikTok Shop too.

Calum Johnson 51:57 You know, you know what's interesting when you, when you speak, um, and I see this as an interesting seat for me being able to speak with the people that I do and ask the questions, you start to see like a common trait is just how much volume of work that they put out. And so I think like a key difference between the person that is successful at the thing and the person who's getting very little results is usually the person with very little results isn't putting out what you mentioned, like a lot of experiments, a lot of tests.

Will Rivera 52:30 Right.

Calum Johnson 52:30 They're overthinking every single thing that they put out. Uh, every bit of output is overthought.

Will Rivera 52:37 Yeah, 'cause it's like if you know, and Hormozi talks about this too, it's like if you know that you're gonna be trash in the beginning, you might as well like get it over with, like and get the beginning stages over with and go ahead and post all this garbage basically, 'cause you're gonna get better over time, rather than overthinking something and then posting and it still not being your best work.

Calum Johnson 52:59 Mm.

Will Rivera 52:59 'Cause obviously your first video isn't gonna be your f- your best work. Like, you're gonna post and then 90 days from now you're gonna look back, and even if you made money off those videos you're gonna be like, "Dang, those videos were trash."

Calum Johnson 53:09 Mm. And so it's almost I... And, and let me know if you agree with this, but it's almost for the person that's starting to produce those TikTok videos, it's like see that inspiration or take that inspiration from people, um, that are successful at doing it.

Will Rivera 53:25 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 53:26 But then, and then make your iteration of it and then post.

Will Rivera 53:30 Yep.

Calum Johnson 53:31 And like just really quick on that process.

Will Rivera 53:32 Yeah, don't think about it, 'cause it's like it's different. TikTok is a different platform than, let's say, Instagram. You know, people, they won't, people won't post three to five times a day on Instagram 'cause they might be like, "Oh, it's gonna mess up my feed," or like, "Oh, I don't wanna like spam my followers." But TikTok's a discovery platform. You could have 100,000 followers, post 10 times in a day, and your followers may not even see any of those posts.

Calum Johnson 53:58 Mm.

Will Rivera 53:59 'Cause TikTok pushes it to people that don't follow you, so you don't have that to worry about. And that, that's better for you too, because again, your videos have a higher chance of going viral.

Calum Johnson 54:08 Mm.

Will Rivera 54:08 You know, I've actually seen people with 2,000, 3,000 followers make anywhere between like 30, 40, $50,000 a month on TikTok, and it's because even though they don't have that many followers, their videos are good and their videos are getting millions of views-

Calum Johnson 54:23 Mm

Will Rivera 54:23 ... selling different products.

Calum Johnson 54:25 It so- so it sounds to me like kind of what you're looking for is you're, you're posting the volume, so the three to five videos a day. Say that over a two-week period, I don't even know what the math is on that. If I'm doing... What's that like? You've posted like 70, 75 videos.

Will Rivera 54:39 Yeah, like 70. Yeah.

Calum Johnson 54:40 Yeah. One of those goes viral, I'm assuming that one viral video is leading to the majority of your sales. Is, is that kind of what you're seeing is what-

Will Rivera 54:48 Yeah, it's gonna bring like 90% of your revenue.

Calum Johnson 54:50 Okay.

Will Rivera 54:51 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 54:51 So it, and it makes sense then why it's like you need the volume, 'cause you're giving yourself, you're giving yourself more opportunity to get lucky in a way. Like to-

Will Rivera 54:58 Right

Calum Johnson 54:58 ... get that video that's the outlier.

Will Rivera 54:59 You're giving, you're giving yourself more opportunity for that video to hit the algorithm and then just get like a cash influx.

Calum Johnson 55:06 Yeah.

Will Rivera 55:07 And then you can kinda just focus on what went right with that video. Like what hook did you use? What did the script look like?

Calum Johnson 55:13 Mm.

Will Rivera 55:13 What product were you selling? And you can kinda just mimic it and make it over and over again.

Calum Johnson 55:18 So w- when, when you're doing your creative and you have an outlier, like an outlier video that just does crazy, do you have like a specific process of how you will like analyze that video? Like do you specifically actually like sit down and be like, "Okay, this is kind of what I think worked. We'll start to integrate this into like future creative or whatever we make"?

Will Rivera 55:39 Yeah, so like if a video worked, the, the number one thing is if the video worked, that means the hook was good. If the hook wasn't good, it wouldn't have took off in the first place. So first thing you're, you're gonna wanna like kn- uh, write down is the hook. It's like, okay, this hook worked. Let me use this hook again or let me create a very like close iteration of this hook, because something about this hook got this video to go viral. And then you study the other, other parts of the video. Like if it converted very well, then something about your delivery or something about the content aspect of the, of the video was w- was good too. And, uh, the, the good thing about, you know, videos on TikTok and stuff is you can pull the transcript.

Calum Johnson 56:19 Mm-hmm.

Will Rivera 56:20 You know, you can put it in Kalodata, pull the transcript and kinda see everything. And let's say you have a winning video, you can pull the transcript of that video, throw it into ChatGPT and have them write you a similar one.

Calum Johnson 56:30 Mm.

Will Rivera 56:31 And then that's like a easy way to get another video up like very fast.

Calum Johnson 56:35 Yeah. This is a very tactical one,

Calum Johnson 56:37 but what is the significance of like music on TikTok? I'll see people, I'll, I see this more on, um, I see it even on Instagram where like people would just put like a song to their video, but the song isn't even playing. But it's just 'cause it's like a vi- it's like a trending song.

Will Rivera 56:54 Yeah, so, uh, kinda d- kinda like how TikTok boosts every post that has a product attached to it because they're really trying to push TikTok Shop out there, they'll boost posts with certain trending songs on it as well.

Calum Johnson 57:08 Mm.

Will Rivera 57:08 Um, they're not gonna boost it as much as they do with TikTok Shop products, 'cause right now that- that's what they're pushing the most right now, which is why this is like a crazy opportunity. But if you do add a trending song to your video, you will get like a couple more views, you know? And sometimes it's not significant, 'cause I think they've cracked down on it a little bit. But, um, yeah, if there's a trending song then, uh, all videos that have that trending song will get a little push on TikTok.

Calum Johnson 57:33 Mm. Okay, cool. So let's say, say, so in a given month, and let's say someone's consistent to it, so they're making like their three to five videos a day.

Will Rivera 57:40 Mm.

Calum Johnson 57:41 One or two of those videos is going viral and that's getting them to hit like the 10K month based off really the, the success of those one or two videos.

Calum Johnson 57:51 What is the difference between the person that's making 10K a month and then the person that's making, say, 100,000, 200,000 a month? Like w- what is, what's the skill gap or the, the information gap between those two individuals?

Will Rivera 58:07 Yeah, I think it really comes down to the person that's making 100K a month is really just making better videos. It's kinda like the YouTuber that's making 10K a month and the one that's making 100K a month. It's like the one that's making 100K a month, his videos are just better. It's, it's, it's that simple. And then on the lucrative thing with TikTok Shop though is once your, once your videos start doing well and you start making, you know, good commissions, brands will actually reach out to you on retainer deals. Because it makes sense for the brand to pay you rather than spend money on ads because they're paying you commission rather than risking money with Facebook ads and maybe not getting a return. So let's say you start posting some videos, you start making some money. A brand could reach out to you and be like, "Hey, make a video for my product. I'll pay you a $5 commission on everything you sell, and I'll pay you 500 or $1,000 a month to make three videos a week."

Calum Johnson 58:59 Mm.

Will Rivera 58:59 So now you start building this retainer and it's kinda like you have a content agency. It's like a one-man agency.

Calum Johnson 59:04 Yeah.

Will Rivera 59:05 So like I've seen that a lot with like my students too where they have brands reaching out to them, paying them to start making videos every week as well.

Calum Johnson 59:13 What do you think it means to be like ... 'Cause you're, you're basically saying they're just like a better creator. Like they just make better content-

Will Rivera 59:21 Yeah

Calum Johnson 59:21 ... and that's like the differentiator. But what do you think that means? Is that just like something which is intrinsic? Like it's just built in you that you're, I don't know, maybe you're more charismatic on camera or whatever. Or is it actually like a skill set that you can learn to become a, like a better content creator?

Will Rivera 59:40 Yeah, I mean, I think it's a skill set. It could be that you're a natural. Like, like you said, you're charismatic on camera, your videos might just do well. But copywriting is a skill, and I think copywriting is important when it comes to video as well. Because especially if you're creating AI-generated videos, it's all gonna come down to the script, um, because you're not gonna be speaking in the video. You're gonna have a voiceover, it's gonna be images. But I've seen the AI-generated videos produce a lot of money, like over 100K a month, and it's because the copywriting is really good. Like it's written in like the Dan Kennedy, Russell Brunson direct response style to where it's just a captivating video and people are able to convert. So I do think it's a skill that you can learn.

Calum Johnson 1:00:21 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:00:21 Um, and even if you're not as charismatic on video, if you have good hooks and you're able to keep people into the end of the video, you'll also be able to, you know, have videos that convert as well.

Calum Johnson 1:00:31 Yeah. Um, I'm c- I know that it's, I know that it's kind of early with the, with the TikTok Shop stuff, but I think something that I was interested to know from kinda your vantage point is- Are you seeing like creative ways of how people are starting to really scale this? Uh, and the AI thing kinda does come to mind, which is like I guess most people are just, they're just recording themselves doing the content and that's going out three to five times a day. But that's like a pretty heavy pace to like keep at. So are you seeing people that are starting to build like almost teams and I guess like businesses against this? Um, where, yeah, like they're not, they're kind of involved in like a smaller part of it. They're not even doing the whole thing. It's kinda outsourced.

Will Rivera 1:01:19 Yeah. I mean, I, I've started to see people kinda create UGC agencies where they have a bunch of creators that are all good at making videos on TikTok and they start selling like big retainer deals to certain brands. Like if it's a big brand, you know, y- and you have a bunch of creators on your team, you could be like, "Yeah, we can get 20 videos out a week for you across all these different accounts, um, and we're proven to make good videos because we've earned X amount in commissions and we'll charge you 20K a month-

Calum Johnson 1:01:54 Mm

Will Rivera 1:01:54 ... 30K a month." And to a brand that was gonna spend 5K a day in Facebook ads, you know, that's more incentivizing to them 'cause it's like you're gonna be pushing out a lot of content for them and it's not gonna take that much views for them to make back their retainer-

Calum Johnson 1:02:12 Mm

Will Rivera 1:02:12 ... if you guys actually do like what, what you said you were gonna do. So I've seen that a lot, you know? I've seen a lot of UGC agencies start coming out.

Calum Johnson 1:02:19 Yeah. And it makes sense as well 'cause I guess with the commission from, on like the brand side-

Will Rivera 1:02:23 Yeah

Calum Johnson 1:02:23 ... uh, they're making mon- like they're paying you when they're making money-

Will Rivera 1:02:27 Yeah

Calum Johnson 1:02:27 ... from, from your creative.

Will Rivera 1:02:28 And the thing is now they can take that video that you made if it does pop off and they can run it as an ad.

Calum Johnson 1:02:33 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:02:33 And it's gonna do good on paid media too.

Calum Johnson 1:02:35 Yeah. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. You know what I think will be like one of the obstacles ... I, I was thinking about like what are, what would people say which is like it's gonna give them hesitation when it comes to doing the TikTok Shop stuff? And one of the things we're hearing a lot

Calum Johnson 1:02:55 in the news at the moment is fears of TikTok getting like shut down [laughs] .

Will Rivera 1:03:01 Right.

Calum Johnson 1:03:02 And so speak to that 'cause I can see that giving people pause, which is like I'm gonna start this business or I'm gonna start this side hustle doing this thing and then TikTok could just get shut down and then all of that work is kind of for nothing.

Will Rivera 1:03:16 Yeah. So well, personally I don't think TikTok is gonna get shut down because they're literally pumping $7 million into the US economy every single day.

Calum Johnson 1:03:24 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:03:24 And they're creating millionaires left and right through affiliates like I mentioned, and also through brand owners. Like some brands they spend zero dollars on paid ads. They go on, they get on TikTok, TikTok Shop and they start making seven figures, eight figures just through creators promoting their stuff. So one, I don't think it's gonna happen, but if it does happen, let's say, let's say it does happen, right? YouTube actually already dropped YouTube Shop. So TikTok Shop's actually been so successful and has made people so much money that YouTube already kinda copied them and they literally dropped YouTube Shopping which is gonna be the same exact thing. It's gonna be short form videos, so it's gonna be YouTube Shorts, but now you're able to tag a product on the video.

Calum Johnson 1:04:03 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:04:03 And as a creator you're able to make commissions off people that watch your video and end up buying that product that's tagged on your video.

Calum Johnson 1:04:11 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:04:11 So literally ex- same exact business model and I think it's gonna be bigger than TikTok Shop actually because YouTube, one, is owned by Google, number one search engine in the world, and they have billions of more users than TikTok.

Calum Johnson 1:04:24 Yeah.

Will Rivera 1:04:24 So I think if you c- if you gain the skills of being able to make money as a TikTok Shop affiliate, those same exact skills transfer over to YouTube Shop.

Calum Johnson 1:04:34 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:04:35 You know? So you really should be doing both 'cause YouTube Shop actually dropped last month so you can already start making money on YouTube Shop too and be early.

Calum Johnson 1:04:42 Yeah. And you know what? Actually my, my friend told me the same thing. He said that the, he actually thinks the YouTube Shop opportunity will be bigger.

Will Rivera 1:04:48 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:04:49 Uh, he said both of the reasons that you did. The other thing he said, um, I think YouTube announced they have some sort of partnership with Shopify so like if a brand is on Shopify then they'll be integrated into the YouTube Shop experience.

Will Rivera 1:05:04 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:05:05 Um, so it will just be like a larger catalog of products.

Will Rivera 1:05:10 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:05:10 Um-

Will Rivera 1:05:11 That's crazy.

Calum Johnson 1:05:12 Yeah.

Will Rivera 1:05:12 Another thing, uh, that I think will be big with YouTube Shop too is because YouTube Shop, because YouTube is owned by Google, um, the videos that you make will rank on Google so you'll have SEO.

Calum Johnson 1:05:24 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:05:24 So if you're selling a product that's trending that people are searching for and you have videos about that product on YouTube Shop, someone who might search for, um, teeth white- let's say there's a teeth whitening product going crazy on TikTok Shop and YouTube Shop, if someone searches for teeth whitening it's gonna be YouTube Shop videos popping up at the top of that, those search results. It's not gonna be TikTok videos.

Calum Johnson 1:05:46 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:05:46 Google's gonna put their shit on top [laughs] .

Calum Johnson 1:05:48 Yeah.

Will Rivera 1:05:48 So, uh-

Calum Johnson 1:05:49 That makes sense

Will Rivera 1:05:49 ... you're gonna have that SEO advantage too and that, that's gonna be huge.

Calum Johnson 1:05:53 Yeah. You know what? Earlier in the conversation one of the things you spoke about was this understanding of opportunity cost. Um, and even when it comes to, uh, your success in like dropshipping and eCommerce and all this stuff you mentioned it was like being early and you've seen the process of like what it's like when you're early in something versus when it starts to get saturated.

Will Rivera 1:06:19 Right.

Calum Johnson 1:06:19 And so can you kind of give more detail to what that is? You mentioned the thing about like well you just have to be better. Like what, what are some of the stuff that ... I wanna make it really real for people that are like, "Eh, I'll just like wait it out. You know? Like-

Will Rivera 1:06:38 Yeah

Calum Johnson 1:06:38 ... I'll just see what happens with it." Like they, their, their perspective is like, "Eh, I'm not gonna start producing content yet. Like let's see how it goes," kinda thing. "Let's see how it develops." Uh, for you though it's like-

Calum Johnson 1:06:51 You, you have an urgency and make it a priority that when it's early, like this is when I need to capitalize.

Will Rivera 1:06:56 Right.

Calum Johnson 1:06:56 And so talk about like what's the flip side of that? Like if you don't capitalize, how does it get harder? Like what is it that you've seen?

Will Rivera 1:07:04 It, it just gets harder because people get better. And I'll explain it like this. So when I got, when, when I got into Shopify dropshipping, I was building my own website, I was making my own ads, and I was making six figures a month. My ads, if you look at them, they look terrible compared to the ads now, and my website looks terrible compared to the websites that people build now. And it's because over time, over time competition entered and they made everything better. So it's like if you got into Shopify dropshipping in 2018, you didn't have to have a good-looking website, you didn't have to have a good-looking ad to make money. But if you get into it now, because the bar has been risen so high, if you don't have a professional-looking ad, if you don't have a professional-looking website, if you don't have a like a professional product description, you can't even really compete.

Calum Johnson 1:07:55 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:07:56 That's not to say that you can't make money, but it's just gotten harder because you have to be better in every aspect. It's gonna happen the same with TikTok Shop. Right now you could probably post a video on TikTok, not have s- you, you, you might not even have a good hook, you might not even have a good video, but because you have a TikTok Shop product attached to it that's going viral, TikTok will boost it. You'll get a million views and you might make some money. But as time goes on and people find out about this opportunity and they start to figure out that they can make a lot of money with this opportunity, videos are gonna get better. People are gonna start posting videos with crazy hooks, crazy, uh, value in the video, crazy call to action at the end, and your videos will just have to get better to be able to compete.

Calum Johnson 1:08:43 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:08:43 So that's what I mean by like getting in early. When you get in early, it makes up for you actually having to be really good. You can still make a lot of money without having to be good.

Calum Johnson 1:08:53 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:08:53 And as time goes on, you just have to be good to-

Calum Johnson 1:08:57 Mm

Will Rivera 1:08:57 ... to, to maintain what you're making or to, to make more.

Calum Johnson 1:09:00 Yeah. Now sometimes speed beats skill.

Will Rivera 1:09:03 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:09:03 And, and also like if you, if you start early, you're also just more likely to be skilled 'cause you would've just done the thing.

Will Rivera 1:09:09 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:09:09 By the time everyone else gets to it, you've done it so many times that now you're good.

Will Rivera 1:09:12 Yeah, it's like if you think about like the NBA, like the first players that played in the NBA, they would not be in the league today.

Calum Johnson 1:09:18 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:09:18 But because [laughs] they were early-

Calum Johnson 1:09:20 That's right

Will Rivera 1:09:20 ... you know, they've, they made it to the league, but they weren't really that good compared to the players now. 'Cause over time the players got better.

Calum Johnson 1:09:27 Mm. You know what? Here's where I wanna end. Um, in the beginning we spoke about kinda like the sense of responsibility that you, that you felt at a really early age of like, "My mom, my brothers, my family's in this predicament and I'm gonna be the one that gets them out." Um, and even in the quote you said, "I remember my mom crying because she couldn't afford the bail and the bail bond companies were gonna crush her with interest. I remember every year

Calum Johnson 1:10:00 from 5 to 13 years old, switching schools and going from apartment to apartment with my mom and little brothers. I remember seeing my mom so stressed and feeling worthless because I could not do anything to help our situation." And you know, it's funny because even before we start recording, right, like we're talking, um, about your life and like some of the things that are happening, like locations that you're in, and so it's now you kind of have like this ultimate autonomy over your life. I'm curious how you even, how you even compare those like different points in your life. Like where you are now to, to where you were at that time where you didn't feel like really you had any control over what was going on, like-

Will Rivera 1:10:50 Yeah

Calum Johnson 1:10:50 ... how does it, how does it feel to you now?

Will Rivera 1:10:54 I mean it's, it's crazy looking back, but I would be lying to you if I said like I didn't deserve everything I have, you know? And, and I think, um, you know, Charlie Munger has a quote that I really like. If y'all don't know who Charlie Munger is, that's Warren Buffett's like right-hand guy. He has a quote that goes, "The world is not yet a crazy enough place to reward a whole bunch of undeserving people." And I'm big on that. I'm big on like if you're not where you wanna be, nine times out of 10 it's because you don't deserve to be there. And you know, I went, like I went a full year making no money, dumping all of the money that I made from my 9 to 5 into this Shopify store and pretty much just burning it. [laughs] Just testing products that didn't work, didn't work. But not really burning it 'cause I was learning every time. Every time I would have a failed product I was learning, learning, learning. And then all of my excess money that I would make from my business, I would dump it into education and I learned. And I didn't get the four-year college experience that, that everyone like looks up to getting and getting lit with their friends. Like I didn't have that. In those four years I was grinding trying to get this eCommerce business to work. Um, and yeah, I went four years, didn't go to college, didn't experience that, missed out on that, but uh, I gained the skills that I now have today that allows me to live the life that I live today.

Calum Johnson 1:12:11 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:12:11 So when I look back I'm like, dang, like that's such a dramatic change. But I also went through a dramatic period of my life of just straight just work. Didn't talk to any friends for a year. Really, I didn't even talk to my family that much for a year 'cause I was so locked into figuring this out because I knew what it could lead up to. And that one year of sacrifice changed my life.

Calum Johnson 1:12:36 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:12:37 So it's, um, it's a dramatic change from where I was to where I am now. But, um, the work was put in and I think, uh, it, it shows.

Calum Johnson 1:12:46 Yeah. I'm curious, what gives you like the most pride? Um, I know even in like what we're building, like I, I'll have these like ... Most of the time I'm just doing the thing so you don't even reflect on it But you do have these quiet moments sometimes, sometimes like in between doing something-

Will Rivera 1:13:04 Yeah

Calum Johnson 1:13:04 ... where you're just like, "Man, like I fucking did that." Like, what, what are some of those moments for you?

Will Rivera 1:13:11 For me, what gives me the most pride is, uh, I got into entrepreneurship for this... The sole reason I got into entrepreneurship was to buy my mom a house. And in 2021, I bought my mom a house, cash. I bought her a car, cash, that same year. And really, like if I were to die that year, like that was like mission accomplished for me. That's all I ever wanted to do.

Calum Johnson 1:13:30 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:13:30 Um, so I get pride in, in being able to wake up every day and know that my mom is living good.

Calum Johnson 1:13:38 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:13:38 'Cause that was like a big thing for me back then, where in the days that I was grinding, I would get up every day and kinda in the back of my head I was like, "Dang, like my mom's still struggling. Like, hopefully today I can make some money," or like, "Hopefully today I figure out something," like, "Hopefully today I have a breakthrough," kind of.

Calum Johnson 1:13:55 Mm-hmm.

Will Rivera 1:13:55 And that was like every day. Every day I was like, "Damn, hopefully today I have a breakthrough. Hopefully today my, my product that I'm testing does well." And, uh, I kinda went a year, like two years thinking like that. Um, and now whether my business is doing good, whether my business is doing bad, the one thing that keeps me sane is like my family is good because of the work that I put in in the past.

Calum Johnson 1:14:18 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:14:19 If I don't make any money today, like it's okay 'cause my mom has no mortgage.

Calum Johnson 1:14:23 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:14:24 I know that she's chilling in that house. I know my brothers are there living good, chilling, having a good time, and that gives me sanity. So that's the biggest thing that gives me pride and like helps me sleep at night for sure.

Calum Johnson 1:14:34 Yeah. I'm curious. Is it, is it like surreal to them, like especially to your mom, like the ... What you've been able to do e- especially like at the age that you've been able to do it, uh, like is it surreal? Like is it crazy to them?

Will Rivera 1:14:47 Yeah, no, it, it is, it is crazy to my mom, um, just because she's ... Well, she's from Nicaragua. Both my mom and my dad are from Nicaragua, so it's ... They don't really understand too much of what's going on as far as like the digital stuff that we do and the online stuff, so she kinda doesn't really understand what I do.

Calum Johnson 1:15:05 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:15:05 I explain it to her all the time, but I'm sure she doesn't really understand what it is or-

Calum Johnson 1:15:09 Yeah

Will Rivera 1:15:09 ... how e-commerce works or any of that. But yeah, I mean, it, it's crazy to her, but she has seen me put in the work too, so she kinda understands. And I also work a lot, and whenever she calls me or texts me, like I'm always working, so she kinda understands. Like, "Okay, like my son is a workaholic. Like he works 24/7, and that's probably why he's able to afford all these things [laughs] that he, that, that he does."

Calum Johnson 1:15:32 Yeah.

Will Rivera 1:15:33 And then my brothers, they get it more because they're, they're Millennials. They're like, or they're like Gen Z.

Calum Johnson 1:15:37 Yeah.

Will Rivera 1:15:38 They're more into like the TikTok wave and the Instagram waves. So to my little brother, it actually makes a lot of sense. Like they understand what I'm doing.

Calum Johnson 1:15:45 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:15:46 And, uh, I'm glad I'm able to be like that inspiration for them of, you know, "Hey, you can go to college if you want to, and like if you, if you wanna be a lawyer, doctor, whatever, go for it, but just don't be brainwashed that, to think that that's the only way."

Calum Johnson 1:16:00 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:16:01 You know, so I've shown them both paths.

Calum Johnson 1:16:03 Yeah. And it's cool even just like reflecting on your story, um, you kind of had to find someone outside of your family and like the natural friends group to kinda be the inspiration or like the person, uh, that you saw as like the model of success. But now I guess like generationally you're that person for your brothers. Like they don't need to go and find someone else. Like they can just see it-

Will Rivera 1:16:28 Yeah

Calum Johnson 1:16:29 ... uh, which is, which is cool to be able to say. And I think, I think one of the things, and I'm glad that you said it and you spoke about it, is like that season of sacrifice. Everyone that I've spoken to, and for myself personally, and it's usually a year. There's usually like a year that people can point to which was like, "I did not go out. I did not hang out with friends. I worked every weekend. I worked late nights." Like the, almost like the pelts on the wall, like the, them putting the shots up in the empty gym.

Will Rivera 1:17:01 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:17:01 It's like certified. Like you can see it.

Will Rivera 1:17:05 Yeah, it's crazy what like one year of just discipline can do.

Calum Johnson 1:17:08 Mm.

Will Rivera 1:17:10 And it, sometimes it has me thinking like, "Damn," like, "what if I go another year like that?" I could do some crazy stuff.

Calum Johnson 1:17:16 Yeah.

Will Rivera 1:17:17 But like now it's just a lot harder because I'm not as hungry as I once was, to be honest. [laughs]

Calum Johnson 1:17:23 Yeah. It's what you said earlier, though. It's like, it's hard to mimic the hunger of like the desperation that you were feeling-

Will Rivera 1:17:29 Yeah

Calum Johnson 1:17:29 ... right? Like what, what's that, there's that quote from a boxer. Um, I think, was it Mike Tyson? He was like, "It's a lot harder to fight in silk pajamas."

Will Rivera 1:17:39 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:17:39 Like when you, when you start, like a lot of these people that get into fighting sports or boxing, it's, it's survival to them, which is why they're so good at it.

Will Rivera 1:17:48 Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:17:49 But then once you start, you're making like tens of millions of dollars, it's like, "Why am I fighting this guy?" Like, "I don't need to do this."

Will Rivera 1:17:55 [laughs] Yeah.

Calum Johnson 1:17:56 It makes no sense. Um, but no, man, it's been a pleasure having you on.

Will Rivera 1:18:00 I appreciate you, bro-

Calum Johnson 1:18:01 Thank you

Will Rivera 1:18:01 ... like always.

Calum Johnson 1:18:02 Yeah.

Will Rivera 1:18:02 Thank you for having me on, man.

Calum Johnson 1:18:04 Pleasure. You know, one thing I love about this podcast is that it's just us. No crazy investors, no crazy connections, no one putting us on. Just myself, my team, and an audience that resonates and loves the conversations that we have. And so if you like the content, if you enjoy the content, if you take value from the content, please hit that subscribe button so you can stay up to date with everything that we have going on. Thank you for listening.