How YOU Can Build A $3,000,000 Newsletter Business Without ANY Employees! | Sam Parr

1. 0:00 – 1:15

   Intro

   1. SPSam Parr0:00

      If I were to start a newsletter, I definitely could do probably at least $3M/Yr, I would think, which is-

   2. CJCalum Johnson0:04

      By yourself?

   3. SPSam Parr0:05

      Just me and an assistant.

   4. CJCalum Johnson0:06

      You said the first Hustle Con that you did, you made $60,000 from that?

   5. SPSam Parr0:09

      I think it did between 50 and 60 in revenue, and I probably walked away with 40 grand. I called myself a $50,000 millionaire.

   6. CJCalum Johnson0:15

      [laughs]

   7. SPSam Parr0:15

      Like, that first 50 grand might as well have been a million dollars. I felt- I remember I was like, "Should I go to Thailand? Should I bring these girls with me to Thailand?" [laughs] Like, 27 grand might as well have been 25 million. The cool thing about a newsletter is you write it as if it's just me writing to you, not me to millions of people. Just I'm writing to you. That's it. And, uh, that built a lot of loyalty.

   8. CJCalum Johnson0:35

      Let's just assume that the person that's listening is a great writer. What is the next step? I know when we- we spoke, you said you have this process of reverse engineering your success.

   9. SPSam Parr0:43

      Do you have your phone on you?

   10. CJCalum Johnson0:44

       I do.

   11. SPSam Parr0:44

       All right. You're gonna have to do some math. So-

   12. CJCalum Johnson0:47

       We spoke yesterday, and you mentioned to me that by the age of 21, you had made this decision by, that by the time that you were 30, you would have made $20 million. And so for most people, when they're 21, they're just getting out of college, or they're just starting their first full-time job. They have no idea what they wanna do, right? So what gave you the certainty at the age of 21 that you wanted to make 20 million by the time you were 30?

2. 1:15 – 7:00

   Every man wants this...

   1. SPSam Parr1:15

      Well, I wasn't ... I had certainty that I wanted it. I didn't have a certainty that I could get it. But I basically, like, grew up in a middle-class family. My parents were business owners, and their business did well when I was in high school. But for the majority of my life, just a very normal background. And, uh, I just didn't wanna have to, like, worry about financial stuff. Like, I saw, like, what it meant to maybe not have a lot, and I thought if I could just remove that from my life, that would be cool, right?

   2. CJCalum Johnson1:47

      Mm.

   3. SPSam Parr1:47

      And so I just read, like, a lot of entrepreneur- entrepreneurial biographies, and I just noticed a pattern with, like, people who, like, have done major things in their lives. A lot of times they're not like Mark Zuckerberg, where they do something huge right off the bat when they're 21, but they, like, have small hits along the way. And I was like, "I think I can get a small hit enough to, like, make that much money by the a- by the time I'm 30." And if I do that, that way, eventually if I have a family, I could just focus on, like, emotional and spiritual, like, stuff for them. And, like, I focus on being present for them and not have to worry about, like, financial stuff because it kind of freaked me out that, um, we don't live, like, that long, and I'm gonna spend 40 or 50 hours a week doing something I hate just to, like, provide. I, I, I just didn't like the idea of that. And so I basically spoke to a bunch of wealthy people and they-- I asked them how much money they spend per year. And one guy said, like, 50 or 60 or something like 60 grand a month. And I was like, "That's so much money." But if I have roughly $20 million and I only spend 3% of that per year, $20 million would never run out, and it would actually continue to grow. So if I could make that by the age of 30, I could live a very lavish lifestyle.

   4. CJCalum Johnson2:58

      Mm.

   5. SPSam Parr2:58

      And I don't spend $60,000 a month, by the way. But I was like, "You know, that's, like, a good benchmark to where you can live a really fancy life and not ever run out of money and just only focus on important stuff as opposed to just money." And I just thought that was a really-- I mean, I thought it was, it was a dream. So like I didn't-- I had a goal, but I had to make a plan. But yeah, that was my goal.

   6. CJCalum Johnson3:17

      Yeah. You know what's interesting, I was actually having a conversation, um, with my mom. And I said to her, I was like, "I wanna get to the point where I just don't have to think about money."

   7. SPSam Parr3:27

      Yeah.

   8. CJCalum Johnson3:27

      Like, that is like a dream. Like, don't have to think about money. And I think for so many people, I would say 99.9% of people, every single, every single week, every single day, every single month, they're thinking about how am I gonna pay the bills? How... You know, like, money is always on the mind. And so I'm curious for you, like in your, in your childhood, in kind of your early years, were there experiences where maybe you would even see your parents or people that you grew up around, they were just constantly like worrying or thinking about money?

   9. SPSam Parr3:58

      Yeah. M- my parents owned a fruit stand. That was their business. So then eventually my mom became a school teacher. And then the fruit stand kind of like grew into one thing and then to another thing. And then when I was like in fourth grade, my father like, uh, left to start a new business. And I remember thinking like, "That's really stressful." Like, "Are we gonna be able to, like, eat and, and have that?" Like, "Are we gonna be able to provide and, like, have clothes?" I remember feeling that feeling. And it was kind of tr- uh, traumatizing. My parents also had this i- like mentality, which they're not wrong for having this mentality that a lot of parents have, which is like, "It's my way or the highway. I pay the bills." So like, that was often the reply that they would have is like, "Well, if I pay for things, you're gonna do it my way."

   10. CJCalum Johnson4:39

       Mm.

   11. SPSam Parr4:39

       And I hated that feeling. I fucking hated it. And so like those two feelings, I was like, "I don't wanna feel this way. I want control and I want power."

   12. CJCalum Johnson4:47

       Mm.

   13. SPSam Parr4:47

       Not necessarily like power over anyone else, but I wanted power over myself. And so like I just remember being like seventh or eighth grade where it's like, "I want money so no one can tell me what to do." Like, I really want that feeling.

   14. CJCalum Johnson4:59

       Mm.

   15. SPSam Parr5:00

       And I just read like a ton of books. And when you read all these books that I would read about, like biographies basically, you know how they say like you're the average of the five people you spend most... I felt like I was the average of them.

   16. CJCalum Johnson5:12

       Mm.

   17. SPSam Parr5:12

       And so I started getting used to like succeeding even though I wasn't actually succeeding. I started like getting used to like reading all these cool stories and it kind of just like, you know, maybe there's a way where money doesn't have to like be everything you worry about.

   18. CJCalum Johnson5:24

       Mm.

   19. SPSam Parr5:24

       And I still think about money all the time, by the way, but like it's not from like a scarcity mindset, which, uh, I wanted. And then-- Or which I didn't want. But then when I started my first business, The Hustle, dude, I paid myself $20,000 a year for like the first two and a half years. So I lived in San Francisco. So I was like poor. And then I was poor, I started a business in college and I was like paying my, for my own life. I was poor then. And so I just didn't like the idea of being poor. No one does, but I really hated it. And so that's kind of like why I had all these goals.

   20. CJCalum Johnson5:55

       Yeah. You know, I think, um, I was listening to an interview with Hassan Minhaj, and he always talks about like the drive shaft, like understanding someone's drive shaft. And I think it's so interesting that for someone like you, obviously you built a business that you sold for over $20 million. Like people that achieve that level of success From what I've seen, they're usually motivated by two things. It's either extreme desperation or extreme inspiration. And one of the things that you mentioned was, like, just wanting to have that feeling of control over your life, like hating the feeling that you weren't in control of your life. Is there a certain experience or like a story that you even remember from your childhood where, like, you really felt that feeling of like, "Oh, I just hate this," like the angst of that?

   21. SPSam Parr6:45

       Yeah. I think I told you this, but basically when I was, like, 21 ... So like between the ages of, like ... I started, like ... I went to college on a, on a track and field scholarship. So I was like a pretty good athlete back then. And I, like, started experimenting with, like, drugs

3. 7:00 – 16:11

   Alcohol will ruin your life (Not just physically)

   1. SPSam Parr7:00

      and alcohol and I got super into it. And, like, I loved beer. Beer was like my favorite thing on earth. And I, like, kind of fell down this slippery slope to where I, like, pretty much became a full-blown alcoholic. And I got arrested like two or three times in like a month. And so I had to, had to spend like, uh, collectively like five days in jail, like two, two d- uh, two days for one thing and then three days for ... three days and three nights or something like that for this other thing. And I remember being in jail, in like county jail, and it was so horrible. I remember getting out of there and thinking, "I never wanna do anything bad ever again. I don't wanna break any rules. I wanna follow, I wanna follow the exact rules, do everything the right way." Because I remember coming home. I have this, uh, I had this 85-pound pit bull, this gorgeous dog. And I remember coming home. And when I got arrested, I didn't ... Like, when you get arrested, like, it's hard to call people because, I don't know if you do, but I don't know people's phone number.

   2. CJCalum Johnson7:57

      Mm.

   3. SPSam Parr7:58

      And so when I got arrested they take me to jail and I'm like, "Shit, I don't know anyone's number. I can't call anyone to go get my dog."

   4. CJCalum Johnson8:03

      Mm.

   5. SPSam Parr8:03

      And so my fucking dog had to sit there for like, uh, two days in the house. And he had water and food, but he like shit all over the house when I got home. And I was, like, devastated. I was like, "Oh my God. I was in this cage and I failed you." I felt so bad about myself and I felt like I let down, like, this animal who's, uh, it's my responsibility. And so, like, pretty much there I was like, "I gotta get my act together. Like, I'm, I'm a loser."

   6. CJCalum Johnson8:25

      Mm.

   7. SPSam Parr8:25

      "Uh, I have potential, but I'm being a loser right now." And I basically got sober. Um, and I failed a couple times. I relapsed, uh, when I was in San Francisco and then I did it again. But, like, getting in trouble was like, uh, it was like a really big deal. And then after I got arrested, by the way, I don't know if you know the story, I had cold emailed the founder of Airbnb when I was in college and he offered me a job. And I got the job. And back then it was called Air Bed and Breakfast. It was, like, early in their, in their company. And they gave me a job, but then I lied about my resume. Uh, I basically said I didn't have a criminal record, and they found it, and they ... I moved out to San Francisco and everything and I showed up s- and they're like, "Dude, you lied. You're out. You're ... We fired you before you even started."

   8. CJCalum Johnson9:10

      Mm.

   9. SPSam Parr9:10

      And so, like, getting in trouble, uh, in that like three-month period, it was like, it was like, uh, the worst ... It felt horrible. I, I felt very, very bad about myself. And from then I was like, "I want power over myself [laughs] , like big time."

   10. CJCalum Johnson9:25

       Yeah. You know what? I think, um ... Yeah, like it's such a, it's such a ... So it's a story that resonates. And I think one of the things that I'm curious about is what was the beginning of like that, those tribulations with alcohol? I think that's something that I've seen you mention a lot, like your journey of getting sober, like the effects of alcohol. And it's even interesting you say the thing about wanting to feel in control when you were like a kid, when you were a child, but then what's the one thing that makes you completely out of control?

   11. SPSam Parr9:59

       Yeah. It's alcohol.

   12. CJCalum Johnson10:00

       Drinking alcohol.

   13. SPSam Parr10:01

       Yeah. I think that, like ... Well, it kinda stems from some place ... I want, I wanted control because, like, I was, I was nervous a lot. I was, I was a pretty an- I'm ... I still am, but I was a, much more of an anxious person. So I'm like, well, if I have money, that's just like one thing less to worry about. But alcohol makes you not worry about stuff as much. And so I got super into it for that reason. I'm like, "Oh my God, I don't worry right now." Like, so it was very much a self-medicating thing. Um, and so when I got into booze, yeah, it like ... And then part of it was like I'm scared to, like, do things. Like I'm, I'm afraid to talk to girls. I'm afraid to, like, not be myself. And for some reason alcohol makes me feel better.

   14. CJCalum Johnson10:34

       Mm.

   15. SPSam Parr10:34

       And so it definitely helped and it was like the greatest feeling ever, uh, being drunk. Um-

   16. CJCalum Johnson10:39

       How would you feel, I'm just curious, like when you go back, like how would you feel when you were drunk?

   17. SPSam Parr10:43

       Just numb, to be honest. But, like, just numb. But, like, I mean, there was a period where I was intoxicated every single minute of the day for like a year and a half. And so, like, I don't remember, like ... There's like months where I'm like I don't really remember too much about what I was doing then.

   18. CJCalum Johnson10:57

       Mm.

   19. SPSam Parr10:57

       Um, and so I was like super into it. And I basically moved out to San Francisco and I relapsed. And I went to a homeless clinic [laughs] to, to, to, to quit drinking. Um, like, it was pretty insane. And, like, I remember I had, like, Apple, uh, like these corded headphones and I pull up in this, uh ... Like, I was just walking, but I didn't have a lot of income 'cause I was running my own business. And so I w- and so I qualified for like this like free clinic. And I also was like, "Dude, I'm a junkie, kinda. I'm like a loser. I should be with these people. This is, this who ... This is what I am. I need to experience this." And, uh, I remember like I had these headphones in. I'm like, "What am I doing here, dude? I got, like, an iPhone." Like, I had the ... Like, I, I'm not ... My life was not set up to be this bad. Why am I behaving this way? And so, yeah, I got sober and it was like the g- like three or four months after getting sober, it was like the greatest feeling on earth. I like-

   20. CJCalum Johnson11:50

       Mm.

   21. SPSam Parr11:50

       That was when I really felt in control. I'm like I control my emotions. I control so much, uh, stuff. And that was like the greatest change of my life.

   22. CJCalum Johnson11:59

       Yeah. No, that's amazing. You know, I think for, for most people that kinda get addicted to alcohol, they start drinking almost at like an obsessive rate, um, there's something that you're like trying to escape from. Like, it's a form of escapism. You said even it's this feeling of being numb. And I guess for you, when you reflect now, given what you've achieved and the fact that you've been sober- Do you have clarity on, like, what was it exactly at that time you were escaping from? Okay, quick break. Later on in the episode, Sam's gonna explain exactly how you can build a $27 million newsletter. But first, let me tell you this: if you're gonna start an online business, you need the right website domain. Introducing our friends at Porkbun, who are sponsoring today's episode, and they're gonna help you get a custom domain for just $1.64. So let me tell you this. When I was looking for my website domain, I did some research to make sure I got the best deal, and I found Porkbun. I started by searching for the standard .com and .net domain names, but then I saw calum.bio was available, and it had a special deal on it. I bought the domain for just $1.64, and the reason that I bought it is that I wanted people to be able to find all of my work in one place. And the good part is not many people have .bio domains yet. A lot of the best names are still available. So now I own calum.bio. It looks super professional, and it's easy for people to remember. So stay tuned. I'll be sharing my new website soon. But the great news is that I've also hooked you up with the same deal that I got on my domain. So if you wanna get your .bio name while it's still available, just go to the link in the description and use code GETYOURBIO to get your .bio domain for just $1.64. That's all it is. Thanks again to Porkbun for sponsoring this episode, and back to the show.

   23. SPSam Parr13:59

       Just, like, some weird stuff that happened with, like, parent issues of just, like, getting in trouble and, like, getting yelled at, parents arguing, things like that. Like, I just didn't wanna, like, confront it. Um, and it just felt better to be intoxicated. Yeah. I also think I'm genetically predisposed-

   24. CJCalum Johnson14:16

       Mm-hmm

   25. SPSam Parr14:17

       ... to, to, to like this stuff. Uh, but yeah, just escaping, like, weird traumatic issues when you're, like, a kid is, uh ... That's what I've learned it all comes down to is basically is, like, you experience something as a kid that could even seem in- seem innocent. For example, I hate flying. I don't like flying at all. I'll, I'll drive across the country oftentimes instead of flying. I had to go through years of therapy to remember it was because when we were kids, my brother was playing with me, and he h- put my arms behind my head, and he dunked my head in the water just, like, teasing me. And one time, water got in, and, like, I thought I was drowning.

   26. CJCalum Johnson14:51

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SPSam Parr14:51

       And, and that stemmed all of my, like, claustrophobia issues. So, like, it all comes from, like, weird stuff when you're a kid-

   28. CJCalum Johnson14:57

       Yeah

   29. SPSam Parr14:57

       ... uh, I think.

   30. CJCalum Johnson14:58

       Yeah. That's interesting. It's like, a lot of our story and how we behave as adults is, like, built in our first 10 years.
4. 16:11 – 20:47

   How a relationship can change your life

   1. SPSam Parr16:11

      I was like, "Yeah, I'll watch him." And they're like, "He- he'll be back in two weeks." And he just didn't get out.

   2. CJCalum Johnson16:15

      [laughs]

   3. SPSam Parr16:15

      And he-- That's how I got this dog. And he was a huge, like, white pit bull, like, the meanest looking dog ever. And, uh, he didn't get out of jail, so I got him. And so I had him for 15 years. And he ... The reason I loved that dog was because typically when you're 20, you don't have the same friends when you're 20 as you do when you're 35, at least my age. Like, and you're ... For a man, you know, men develop later than women. For a man, you're developing in your 20s, like, well into your late 20s. And, like, there's not that many people that are around for the whole evolution, so it felt special to have, like, a being there who could see that. But also, dogs are special, man, because you gotta, you gotta take care of them. I like having responsibility. Having responsibility makes me feel good.

   4. CJCalum Johnson16:56

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SPSam Parr16:56

      You know what I mean? And so I have a family now, and it's, like, the greatest feeling on Earth. It's the most masculine feeling you could have, is to take care of someone or something.

   6. CJCalum Johnson17:04

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SPSam Parr17:05

      And so it just ... Yeah, I love that. I think that, like, men should try to have children. You should try to have a family. Like, that's cool. Like, having someone to, like, devote yourself to is, is a really good feeling.

   8. CJCalum Johnson17:17

      Yeah. You said, "This dog saved me from being a degenerate." I'm, I'm curious, in those kind of, like, early stages of having, having Sid, like, what were some of the changes that you were seeing in yourself?

   9. SPSam Parr17:29

      So I'll give you an example. So I, I was, like, an okay student, but I didn't really take it that seriously. But I remember there was an accounting meetup. And at this accounting meetup they were gonna give away $200 in a raffle, and I needed that $200 to hire a trainer to teach me how to train this dog, because I didn't have any money. And I went to this accounting meetup, and they were like, "If you switch your major to, like, accounting, by the way, like, we could ... You can come to these all the time." And I was like, "Fuck yeah, sign me up." So I switched my major to accounting just to, like, go to these meetups. And I eventually won $100 or $200 at one of these things. But then I liked accounting. And so, like, like, I would, like, do these things just for this freaking dog. And like, it actually meaningfully changed my life.

   10. CJCalum Johnson18:09

       Yeah.

   11. SPSam Parr18:10

       Uh, but that's, like, one example. But I remember like, "I can't get in trouble tonight. I gotta go home."

   12. CJCalum Johnson18:14

       Mm.

   13. SPSam Parr18:15

       You know what I mean? Like, just that simple feeling.

   14. CJCalum Johnson18:17

       Yeah. You know what? It's, it's funny 'cause you, you mention responsibility. I think it's actually a really big thing for men, is like, you almost need something larger than yourself to be a good person for. Like something to-

   15. SPSam Parr18:29

       Yeah

   16. CJCalum Johnson18:29

       ... like, it makes you better Because you're, there's some- there's someone or something that you're doing it for. It's not just purely selfish.

   17. SPSam Parr18:37

       Yeah. I, I think that, like, so I had that 20 million goal partially because I was like, "I'm gonna have a family," and it would feel good. And I didn't have a... I wasn't dating anyone then. Like, it w- I was way off. But it felt good to like think like, "This is for the share with, with my people," and that's like a really good feeling. I think that a lot of people, particularly in business, when you're like making money just to make more money, that's a really empty feeling.

   18. CJCalum Johnson18:57

       Mm.

   19. SPSam Parr18:57

       But when you're doing it to like give it away or you're doing it to create jobs or something like that, when you climb up that Maslow's hierarchy of need, it feels really good.

   20. CJCalum Johnson19:06

       Yeah.

   21. SPSam Parr19:06

       Like, it's a very good feeling.

   22. CJCalum Johnson19:07

       Yeah.

   23. SPSam Parr19:08

       Uh, and y- y- yeah, I just enjoy having... I remember when I was 26, one of my employees got pregnant and was gonna have a baby. And I was like, "Feels like I'm having a baby."

   24. CJCalum Johnson19:22

       [laughs]

   25. SPSam Parr19:22

       Like, what the hell? [laughs] Like, how am I gonna, like, how am I gonna make this business work to be able to support this woman and her husband and her child? Like, I, that, that was the feeling, and I was really n- really nervous.

   26. CJCalum Johnson19:34

       Mm.

   27. SPSam Parr19:34

       But it felt amazing. It was like aw- it felt awesome to have that pressure of like, I have to make this business work to support this woman and her family.

   28. CJCalum Johnson19:41

       Mm.

   29. SPSam Parr19:41

       Or to like create a workplace where we can like pay salaries. And it was very scary and awesome feeling.

   30. CJCalum Johnson19:46

       Yeah.
5. 20:47 – 29:40

   The mindset to NEVER lose.

   1. SPSam Parr20:47

      that is where greatness kinda comes from, is when you're like, your back's up against the wall. That's why like a lot of badass businesses are founded by entrepreneur- or, uh, immigrants.

   2. CJCalum Johnson20:55

      Mm.

   3. SPSam Parr20:55

      It's like when you come from nothing, it's like I g- I gotta make this work. So I love that feeling. I'm a, I'm a big fan of that.

   4. CJCalum Johnson21:00

      Yeah. And so it seems like in your story, that feeling of the back against the wall, it's like you come out of jail, you see, um, the effects that it even had on Sid and like the people around you. Now it's not just something that's detrimental to you, it's actually beings, animals, people around you, are actually, it's hurting them.

   5. SPSam Parr21:23

      Yeah.

   6. CJCalum Johnson21:23

      And so you start to make this progress from being a degenerate to like actually starting to get your life in order. You mentioned there were moments where you relapsed, and I, I think that's interesting. It's something that I've heard, um, Alex Hormozi talk about. It's something that I experienced, which is that whenever you make a journey of like change and you go on this path of like you start at point A and you're trying to get to point B and it's completely different, you start on this path, and every now and then you start looking back to where you were before. Like, you kinda get tempted with your old life.

   7. SPSam Parr21:56

      Yeah.

   8. CJCalum Johnson21:56

      Talk to, talk to me about those relapses. Like, what was happening there?

   9. SPSam Parr22:01

      Dude, being... The, so the lifestyle that I had of like being drunk all the time and like... So basically I lived in, um, this, in Nashville at the time, and I lived next, across the street from the projects, and just chilling on the corner and drinking all day with these guys, it was so fun. Like, it was so much fun. You know, what's that, have you ever seen that YouTube video where a kid's like, "I just wanna do hoodrat stuff with my friends"?

   10. CJCalum Johnson22:23

       [laughs]

   11. SPSam Parr22:23

       That's what I did every night, and it was honestly so much fun until you realize you're a fucking loser, you provide no value to anyone, and you feel sick all the time. Like, it's fun until it, it ain't fun, and it always becomes not fun. And so I remember, uh, like getting my act together a little bit for about four months, and I get out to San Francisco, and immediately I'm in a new place and I'm super uncomfortable. I'm super awkward. I'm, I'm nervous. I'm by myself. I don't have a lot of money. I'm nervous about paying rent. I just moved out there to join... I basically left school and went, moved to San Francisco to like join Airbnb, and that didn't work out. And I'm like, "I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do," and I'm trying to fit in. And so it all came down from not being confident in my own like values and things like that. And so I started drinking again to like escape, but also to fit in. And then about a year later, I, um, really like kicked it for good and it was, and it, and it worked out.

   12. CJCalum Johnson23:15

       Yeah. It's, it's interesting even with the context that you provided earlier, it's like as soon as you start to feel out of control, it's like reach for the alcohol. It's like that-

   13. SPSam Parr23:25

       Yeah

   14. CJCalum Johnson23:25

       ... verbalizing kind of.

   15. SPSam Parr23:26

       Yeah, and it, it's rooted down to like... And so I think I told you, like I'm obsessed with like reverse engineering things, and so like, um, I'm, I'm pretty into like discipline and like, um, now I am into discipline and like having a routine and things like that becau- and then having a plan and like executing towards a plan. Because when you, when you're someone like me or, or, and I would think you, I, I told you this analogy, but it kinda feels like when you're like this, like there's a bunch of people out there who are these like high energy people, and they're like a car, and someone's sitting in the car and like pressing the gas as fast as they can, but your back wheels are lifted up.

   16. CJCalum Johnson24:00

       Mm.

   17. SPSam Parr24:00

       And it's like you have to make sure you point that car in the right direction, because if you point in the wrong direction, it could be like destruction. You're either gonna get to where you, you're gonna go to a place you, you don't really wanna go-

   18. CJCalum Johnson24:10

       Mm

   19. SPSam Parr24:10

       ... and you're gonna get there fast, or you're gonna like get in a wreck on, along the way. Like, picking that right, uh, picking the right lanes to stay within is really important. And so for people like me, like if I have like a plan and like a clear destination, that's where you're going, uh, I feel very happy and I feel unstoppable.

   20. CJCalum Johnson24:27

       Yeah.

   21. SPSam Parr24:27

       But as soon as like that plan goes away or, uh- ... uh, you know, things like that, like, then it's like, "Oh, let's go this way. Let's go..." You know what I mean?

   22. CJCalum Johnson24:35

       Yeah.

   23. SPSam Parr24:35

       And so, uh, it's important. That's why I love, like reverse engineering and having a very specific plan. So I, I'll always have like five and 10-year goals and things like that because without it, I just kinda can go off the rails.

   24. CJCalum Johnson24:46

       Yeah. And I, I think to your point, it's like we have this... And I think people will relate. You have this energy, you have this, like, fire, and if it's not directed in the right way, it can be completely detrimental. But if it is directed in the right way, it can achieve incredible outcomes with which we saw with your media company.

   25. SPSam Parr25:03

       And by the way, that's why I love UFC.

   26. CJCalum Johnson25:05

       Mm.

   27. SPSam Parr25:05

       UFC, the fighters, they're freaks, right? They're animals.

   28. CJCalum Johnson25:08

       Yeah.

   29. SPSam Parr25:08

       Like, they're these men who wanna fight to the death in their underwear in front of millions of people. And like there's a funny Dana White quote where they're like, "Hey," this one guy got arrested for, like getting a DUI, getting in a fight or something, and he's like, "Yeah?" And they're like, "What, you angry?" He's like, "I'm angry, but these guys are animals. What do you expect?" Like, the... And, and so my goal is to point them in the right direction and give them some, and, and put them, point that car the right way, but when you're crazy enough to do that, you're gonna do other crazy things. And I think that for anyone who's, like wants to achieve anything interesting, they probably have a little devil in them.

   30. CJCalum Johnson25:41

       Yeah.
6. 29:40 – 34:34

   Sam’s first ventures into building businesses.

   1. SPSam Parr29:40

      stand in storage, and he wasn't using it. And at the time I had $500, and I was like, "I bet you I can get a day's worth of supplies for a hotdog cart." And so I went and got my, like f- food license or whatever, and he let me rent his cart, and I would pay him at the end of the month. So, uh, he gave me a month for free basically so I could start this business. And it was awesome. It was badass. It was so much fun. I, and I did it because that was like one of the jobs that you could have like, and you could still drink during the day. 'Cause I would work from like 11:00 to 3:00. I would go to class from like 3:00 to 8:00 and then work from like 9:00 to like 3:00 in the morning, you know, the bar scene. And, uh, I would kill it, man. Some days I would walk home with like a grand in like $1 bills, and me and my like, I would hire this young woman to work with me. We called it being hood rich. We just had a, we just had a, a stack of cash, [laughs] just like a, a fat stack, and it felt awesome. And then other days we'd make like 80 bucks. But it was like 110 degrees in Nashville in the summertime. It sucked. It was so bad. And I got curious about like the internet because I was like, "I don't wanna work- ... outside all the time. This is really hard. And so I started a online website that sold a very special type of whiskey that you could only buy in a handful of stores in Nashville, but, like, people all over the world wanted it.

   2. CJCalum Johnson30:54

      Mm.

   3. SPSam Parr30:55

      And so I started selling this thing, and I'd be in finance class, and I'd hear my PayPal go ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching. I'm like, "Dude, I just made $500. I made $1,000." And I start thinking, I'm like, "By the way, do I need, like, a fucking liquor license to be doing this? [laughs] Like, what am I doing?" And so I go to the, uh, the lawyer. Like, they would-- a lawyer would come to school, uh, in like the entrepreneurship, like, clinic, and you could ask him questions. And I told him what I was doing, and he's like, "Yeah, you're breaking the law, dude. You can't do this." [laughs] And I was like, "Well, shit." Uh, so I, I bailed on all that, and I moved to San Francisco. And when I got fired from Airbnb, I happened to be staying on an Airbnb at a guy's house who had an idea for a roommate matching app. And it was basically like Tinder, but for roommates. Which was stupid because it should've just been Tinder for Tinder.

   4. CJCalum Johnson31:40

      Mm.

   5. SPSam Parr31:40

      Like, that would've been a way bigger business. [laughs] Like, it should've been-- I, I dated a girl who I met on the app.

   6. CJCalum Johnson31:45

      [laughs]

   7. SPSam Parr31:46

      Like, I started-- I, I was like, "I don't even need a roommate right now." I, I used the app to find my roommates, and I was like, "Fuck, I wanna meet people."

   8. CJCalum Johnson31:51

      [laughs]

   9. SPSam Parr31:51

      Like, let's go to... And, uh, we sold it for not a lot of money, um, but enough, and then after that I started, uh, a conference company.

   10. CJCalum Johnson32:00

       Yeah.

   11. SPSam Parr32:01

       And the conference company did all right, and then I s- started The Hustle after that, which eventually was, was life-changing.

   12. CJCalum Johnson32:06

       Yeah. You know, it's actually funny watching you even talk about it, 'cause I can see, like, your emotion. Like, you still get so amped about it. It's, like, so fun to you. It's kind of like, like, listening to your stories, it's like the degenerate's guide to business. And-

   13. SPSam Parr32:20

       Yeah.

   14. CJCalum Johnson32:20

       Like [laughs]

   15. SPSam Parr32:20

       It's, it's the same. It's all from the same place. Like, it's fun to do bad stuff sometimes, and, like, when you're making money online, a- as long as you're doing it in an ethical way and supply, supplying customers, and it, it-- sometimes it feels like what you're doing is illegal. You're like... Like, have you ever made money on the internet?

   16. CJCalum Johnson32:35

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. SPSam Parr32:35

       And, like, seeing like a-- gotten, like, the ka-ching. You're like-

   18. CJCalum Johnson32:38

       Mm

   19. SPSam Parr32:38

       ... "Oh my God, this is fucking awesome."

   20. CJCalum Johnson32:40

       [laughs]

   21. SPSam Parr32:40

       Like, "I got my first sale." It's like the greatest feeling on earth.

   22. CJCalum Johnson32:43

       Mm.

   23. SPSam Parr32:43

       You're like, "How is this legal? This is so cool." It, like, kind of is that same energy.

   24. CJCalum Johnson32:47

       Yeah.

   25. SPSam Parr32:47

       Uh, so yeah, it felt awesome.

   26. CJCalum Johnson32:48

       Yeah. No, I love it. I love it. Okay. So it's interesting actually the story of The Hustle. Of course you go on to sell it for rumored $27 million, uh, to HubSpot, but it started as a conference. So, so talk to me about that. Like, what was kind of the early origin of, of The Hustle?

   27. SPSam Parr33:06

       Yeah. I, um, sold the app. I worked at the company that bought it for one year and one day, and then I started this conference. And the idea was like, I'm gonna do this conference called Hustle Con. It was a horrible name. Uh-

   28. CJCalum Johnson33:21

       [laughs]

   29. SPSam Parr33:22

       It was like TED Talk for entrepreneurs. Yeah, it was, like, a horrible name, but I thought it was funny. And I was like, "I'm gonna meet someone at the event hopefully, and I'll partner with them, and we'll start a business together. But this is a cool way to kill time." And I did the first event. I think I had the idea, and then six months-- six weeks later the first event happened, and it, and it made, like, $60,000. And then I was like, "That was amazing. I just made 60 grand in six weeks. That was awesome." So I said, "Let's do it again." [laughs] And so I spent six weeks or eight weeks or something driving around the country on my motorcycle just celebrating, and I did it again. I think the next time it made, like, 150 or 180. I don't remember. Something like that. A hun- over $100,000. And I was like, "That was amazing. Let's do it again." But then I started thinking, I'm like, "Man, if it rains, like, my business is, like, out of business. Like, if something bad happens, like, I'm doing all this work for one day. Like, that's not the savviest business." And in order to make people come to the conference, I created this newsletter where I would write stories that, uh, were about each speaker, and I made them look really cool. And I got, like, 10,000 people to sign up to that newsletter. [smacks lips] And I was like, "You know, maybe this newsletter thing is kind of interesting."

7. 34:34 – 36:48

   How to build a multi million dollar newsletter.

   1. SPSam Parr34:34

      And I'd read the biography of Ted Turner. He was a, um-- He owned CNN. He founded CNN. He was from the South. He was from Atlanta. And he was kinda like me. He was kinda crazy. Uh, like a Southern guy. He was c- I, I, identified with him. And I was like, "If this fucking guy can do it, I can do it." And so I had this idea of, like, if we create a daily email, if you do the math, the math is such that if I can charge $50 per 1,000 sends to my email, which is, was, uh, roughly the going rate, and I can get a million people to subscribe, and if I send them an email every single day of the month, that would be, like, uh, like, $1.5 million a month. The-- And, and if I-- I'm pretty good at writing. Tech is, like, a pretty big sector. I bet you I can get a million people to subscribe to this l- newsletter and build an $18 million business.

   2. CJCalum Johnson35:21

      Mm.

   3. SPSam Parr35:22

      And then I was like, "But, uh-- And if I get five million people, you know, I could-- that could get close to $100 million. I bet you I can do this." And so that was, like, the concept early on, was, uh, that we're gonna create a daily newsletter that tells you everything you need to know about business and tech, and we'll have some ads in there. And we only need, like, two or three writers to, to do it. And so it's gonna be, like, a really, really profitable thing. And that was the original premise. And I showed this to a bunch of people, including, like, I cold emailed, like, CEOs of, like, billion-dollar huge media companies, and they were like, "This is silly. This will never work." And, uh, I sold the company. I, uh, the, the year I sold we were probably gonna be in the $20 million in revenue range. Uh, so I sold before I was able to get to 100 million, which was my goal. But some of my great friends, like Austin from Morning Brew, um, they're around $100 million now. So, like, my premise, my theory was, uh, was on point, which I'm very proud about, but I sold, uh, before we actually got there.

   4. CJCalum Johnson36:15

      Yeah. You know, I, I quoted earlier, I said it's almost like the degenerate's guide to business, like, listening to you. And it's interesting because you have-- there's, like, zero fear. Like, when I listen to you recount the story, you'll mention cold emailing certain CEOs, or when you started Hustle Con, um, starting this newsletter to promote it. And I'm just thinking of to, like, the average or, like, the normal person, even someone that's listening. Even me if I was listening to that, I would be like, if I wanted to do a conference

8. 36:48 – 46:37

   How to get a 100% reply rate from cold emails.

   1. CJCalum Johnson36:48

      And I was like at the time kind of... Like, I wasn't in a great position. You would have so much procrastination, so much fear. Like, no one's gonna come or how am I gonna get any of these guests?

   2. SPSam Parr36:58

      Yeah, but what's the alternative? You like go in a cubicle doing a shit that you hate until you die?

   3. CJCalum Johnson37:03

      Mm.

   4. SPSam Parr37:03

      I'm afraid of that.

   5. CJCalum Johnson37:04

      Mm.

   6. SPSam Parr37:04

      Like when people do that I'm like, "Aren't you fearful?"

   7. CJCalum Johnson37:06

      Yeah.

   8. SPSam Parr37:06

      Like aren't you fearful of spending your time, your life, your one life?

   9. CJCalum Johnson37:09

      Mm.

   10. SPSam Parr37:09

       Aren't you nervous about spending your time-

   11. CJCalum Johnson37:11

       Mm

   12. SPSam Parr37:11

       ... in a way that you don't want to spend? That's what I'm fearful of. So... And what's the downside? You look silly?

   13. CJCalum Johnson37:20

       Mm.

   14. SPSam Parr37:21

       I mean, I don't know. Like, th- that's not that big a deal. And I n- and dude even if you fail you look pretty cool. Like if you do something like spectacular and you put your effort into it. Like that's the difference between America and England. That's one of the j- uh, when we were joking, is like in America if you try really hard and you fail you're, you're still like in many cases you could be-

   15. CJCalum Johnson37:36

       People love it

   16. SPSam Parr37:37

       ... you, you can love it. You're like, "That's sick. You, you, you, you swung. That's great." So I kinda like in the back of my head I thought that. I also always de-risk things. So like I get crazy about it. Like I, I remember I had $1,000 that I had in a bank account and I'm like, "Worst case scenario I'm, I'm gonna move to, in my mom's house and I got $1,000 that I can get my plane ticket home. So I'm good."

   17. CJCalum Johnson37:57

       [laughs]

   18. SPSam Parr37:58

       So everything plus that is upside.

   19. CJCalum Johnson38:00

       Yeah.

   20. SPSam Parr38:00

       Uh, that's kind of was the attitude.

   21. CJCalum Johnson38:02

       Yeah. I actually love that. It's like in the beginning almost set up that it's like the ultimate like fail safe.

   22. SPSam Parr38:08

       Yeah. I always have those. So I, to this day I have a, a certain bank account where it's like everything can go to shit, we're good. As long as this is good we're good. Yeah, I believe in like protecting the downside and de-risking things 'cause that makes it way easier emotionally.

   23. CJCalum Johnson38:21

       Yeah. You know what? When you, um... And it also means you can start. You can take more risk. Like, 'cause now you're like, "Oh, okay. Like it's not gonna go to complete shit and now I can kind of, I can really go for it."

   24. SPSam Parr38:32

       And the fear should be, uh, if I don't take this risk now while I'm young and have few responsibilities, if I don't have a sense of urgency that window's gonna pass. So like the fear of the what you were saying of like sitting on your ass, it should be the other way around. It's like if I don't get to work now it's never gonna work because I'm always gonna be too afraid to do it.

   25. CJCalum Johnson38:52

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SPSam Parr38:52

       And so yeah that's like, that's what I think.

   27. CJCalum Johnson38:55

       Yeah.

   28. SPSam Parr38:55

       I ha- I have [laughs] well I have a homemade tattoo on my feet that say act now. Like I'm like-

   29. CJCalum Johnson39:00

       Homemade tattoo?

   30. SPSam Parr39:01

       Yeah with like a... You use like a sewing needle.
9. 46:37 – 50:51

   The bitter truth behind running a successful business

   1. SPSam Parr46:37

      wants to buy the company, I'll sell it to them for anything. I can't stand this." Um, the first week that I started the company. So the idea of The Hustle was a daily newsletter, and it was news and business that you needed to know. In order to get customers, I started blogging. I would blog like crazy. I would blog so much that I, I, in order to make people believe that it wasn't just me blogging, I had, like, fake authors. And, like, I had one author that was a woman, and I would write, like, an, a perspective from a woman all the time, and it was just me. Like, I did this all the time. But one of these, um, blog posts that I wrote, I met this guy who was making $60,000 a month on Kindle. And what he would do is he would find really top-selling pickup artist books and kinda, like, plagiarize them.

   2. CJCalum Johnson47:18

      Mm.

   3. SPSam Parr47:19

      I thought that was really sleazy, but I thought that was interesting. And so I wrote an article explaining how he did it. And then the next week, I thought it would be funny to, to kinda like stick it into Amazon's face. I found a romance novel. Romance has a lot of high li- liquidity, lots of buyers and lots of sellers. I found a bestselling romance nov- novel, and we plagiarized it, and we put a new title on it and a new picture, and we posted it. And we got, like, 50 friends to quote buy it, and we just refunded them.

   4. CJCalum Johnson47:46

      Mm.

   5. SPSam Parr47:46

      And it, like, started going up the charts, and people actually started buying it.

   6. CJCalum Johnson47:50

      Mm.

   7. SPSam Parr47:51

      And the book publisher who we ... The book that we plagiarized was owned by the largest romance novel, uh, publisher in the world, which I didn't, I didn't know that. And [laughs] they called me, and they're like, "You, y- you just broke the law, and we're absolutely suing you." [laughs] And I was like, "Fuck."

   8. CJCalum Johnson48:14

      [laughs]

   9. SPSam Parr48:15

      "On my second day of business." Like, and I had wrote a post saying, like, "I'm about to blow $400,000 on my media company," 'cause that's how much money I'd saved, "and I'm gonna build this huge media company." And I looked like a total douche.

   10. CJCalum Johnson48:27

       [laughs]

   11. SPSam Parr48:27

       And I'm like, "These guys are gonna take all my money that I have. This business that I wanted to start and have dreams for is, it ended on week two."

   12. CJCalum Johnson48:33

       [laughs]

   13. SPSam Parr48:33

       And then they email me the next day, and they're like, "Look, it's not a big deal. Just write a blog post saying that you apologize, and we're gonna forget all about it."

   14. CJCalum Johnson48:41

       [laughs]

   15. SPSam Parr48:41

       But, like, I sweated for, like, 24 hours. I was like, "We're done. We're done." Like, I can't afford a lawyer.

   16. CJCalum Johnson48:47

       Yeah.

   17. SPSam Parr48:47

       Um, and so yeah, that, like, right out the gate, it was hard. Um, and then, like, I had so many issues with hiring ... hiring people is, is, being, leading people is quite chall- leading people is, uh, I think kind of easy. Managing them is, is hard.

   18. CJCalum Johnson49:00

       Yeah.

   19. SPSam Parr49:01

       And so there was all types of... You know, when I started the business I was 24, 25, and so I didn't exactly know what I stood for, so I kinda hired all different types of people, when it's best to hire just w- like people who are aligned with whatever you're trying to do. And I hired all types of people, and it, I made a lot of hi-, uh, hi- hiring mistakes.

   20. CJCalum Johnson49:16

       Yeah. You know what? Those... And, and I, I resonate with it so deeply, like doing what I'm doing at the moment. There are certain nights where I'll like look at the ceiling and you're like, "How am I gonna get myself out of this situation?" Like it's not immediately obvious to you what the next step is. And-

   21. SPSam Parr49:33

       Particularly if you're the type of you're working or the type of I'm work- I'm working, where you have to like create.

   22. CJCalum Johnson49:39

       Mm.

   23. SPSam Parr49:39

       You're on the treadmill. It's like I gotta create.

   24. CJCalum Johnson49:41

       Yeah.

   25. SPSam Parr49:41

       Like I g- I have a deadline. I have to do something.

   26. CJCalum Johnson49:43

       Yeah.

   27. SPSam Parr49:43

       In my case, it was six days a week. And so yeah, it's very stressful.

   28. CJCalum Johnson49:47

       Yeah. And e- and even the thing you spoke about, like leading with confidence. One of the most difficult things to do, especially when you have employees, is like-

   29. SPSam Parr49:55

       To pretend

   30. CJCalum Johnson49:55

       ... you have to wake up the next day and be like, "Here's the plan," and seem confident. In your mind you're like, "I have no idea what we're gonna do."
10. 50:51 – 54:13

    The surest way to stay successful.

    1. SPSam Parr50:51

       more revenue off this person in three months, I don't, I w- I'm outta money." And so I, I would do that a lot. And that, and so it ki- it was like, "Dude, I have to make this work," otherwise, like these... Like I think after one year, I think we had seven employees. And I remember thinking like, "I ha- this has to work, otherwise I gotta lay 'em off." And so I like those types of situations. I, I hate them and I like them at the same time. Um, I also had all my eggs in one basket, so I kinda screwed myself. I think in the first year of business we did 300,000. The second year we did 2.2. Third 5.5. We still-

    2. CJCalum Johnson51:29

       Million.

    3. SPSam Parr51:30

       5.5 million. Year four was I think around 12. And then going i- we sold going into year five. I think we were gonna do 18. Um, and throughout that whole period we had money. I always had at least $2 million in the business bank account. I paid myself $40,000, uh, like or $20,000 and then like $40,000 and then like another 40,000. And then last year I paid myself a lot of money. But I like was, I felt broke the whole time-

    4. CJCalum Johnson52:01

       Mm

    5. SPSam Parr52:01

       ... which was insane. I shouldn't have done that. And so I felt desperate like a lot-

    6. CJCalum Johnson52:06

       Yeah

    7. SPSam Parr52:06

       ... while running the business, and I'm thankful that I married a woman who had a great job and she was kinda my sugar mama.

    8. CJCalum Johnson52:11

       [laughs]

    9. SPSam Parr52:11

       But like I was, uh, I legitimately felt broke while I was running the business.

    10. CJCalum Johnson52:15

        Yeah. You know what? We- we- we're gonna get into the blueprint of how you did it. But before, before we do, have you reflected on like what that was? Because I think it's, it's interesting, right? Like sometimes as humans things, and we even spoke about it before, things that we experience as child, as children, it's like you're almost like comfortable. It's, it's weird to say it like this, but you're almost comfortable being broke. Like that's the thing that you know. So even when you have, you're making like a ton of money, it's still like actually in your personal account it's broke. Like ha- have you reflected on like why was it that you had millions of dollars in your, in your business savings a-

    11. SPSam Parr52:52

        Yeah, and I treated the business like its own entity. Even though I owned most all of it, I didn't, um... I was like, "That's not my money. That belongs to this business, and I'm the steward of the capital, and I ha- like I might have the keys to it, but it, it ain't mine."

    12. CJCalum Johnson53:05

        Mm.

    13. SPSam Parr53:05

        And so that was, that's a good attitude, but pay myself more. But sorry, what were you saying?

    14. CJCalum Johnson53:10

        Why, why was it that you think that you did that?

    15. SPSam Parr53:12

        Paid myself little?

    16. CJCalum Johnson53:13

        Yeah.

    17. SPSam Parr53:15

        Because I had low confidence, and I was like, um, "I'm not worthy of taking a lot of money. These people should have way more. Um, my time should be free." Like I thought that was cool, and I also was like, "Yeah, that's how it should be. Like I'm a nobody."

    18. CJCalum Johnson53:28

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SPSam Parr53:28

        Um, and that's how a lot of people are with business, where they're like, "I pay myself last." I think the owner should pay themself first a lot of times. Um, not all the time, but, but a lot of times. But i- I think it was just rooted in I'm uncomfortable taking, taking this.

    20. CJCalum Johnson53:42

        Yeah. You know what? I think that's so relatable. I think there's so many people that are listening that you can have all of the accomplishments, almost all of the evidence in the world that you are someone, but deep down you still feel like you're nobody.

    21. SPSam Parr53:55

        Yeah. And the, the, I, I don't struggle with that as much anymore because when I did Hustle Con, I would basically te- like we had, we did it from 2014 up until close to COVID, so '19 or '20. And we would have the founders of all these amazing startups. And they

11. 54:13 – 1:04:37

    The full process of selling a company

    1. SPSam Parr54:13

       were like billionaires and stuff. And if they had to speak at, let's say, 1:00, I would be like, "You gotta be here at 10:00 AM." And they're like, "Why?" I'm like, "You gotta do soundcheck." And that was a total lie. There is no soundcheck at a conference. Like the mic works every time. Like I, I just take it off this person and put it on that person. Like it works.

    2. CJCalum Johnson54:29

       [laughs]

    3. SPSam Parr54:30

       But I told them that so we all would get to hang out in the green room together. And so I would have like the founder of WeWork and like the founder of like Away Travel, that suitcase company. And I would just get to listen to them talk to one another, and I would throw out a question there every once in a while, and I would get to hear them like complain, and I would get to hear... I would kinda do like what you're doing to me where I would ask them questions, and I would get them to like dive deep a little bit. And basically my takeaway was that- There were stories like where someone was like a billionaire and he's like, "I'm afraid to fire this person because this, the conf- this person's very alpha and the confrontation scares me."

    4. CJCalum Johnson55:03

       Mm.

    5. SPSam Parr55:03

       And I'm like, "But you're a billionaire. Why are you afraid?" And he's like, "What do you mean?" I was like, "I don't, I don't get it. You shouldn't be afraid." And he's like, "Dude, I'm afraid about everything all the time."

    6. CJCalum Johnson55:11

       Mm.

    7. SPSam Parr55:11

       Or I would see someone, uh, who was just in The New York Times for like a $200 million funding announcement, and they're with me two weeks later and they're like, "I don't know how I'm gonna make this work."

    8. CJCalum Johnson55:20

       Mm.

    9. SPSam Parr55:20

       And I found that to be very invigorating, that the people that I looked up to were like basically the same ballpark as I am in some cases in terms of IQ. Like, I could keep up with them in some ways. Uh, but they still like were kind of a fucking pussy like I am. [laughs]

    10. CJCalum Johnson55:36

        But it's-

    11. SPSam Parr55:36

        Like, that was very invigorating.

    12. CJCalum Johnson55:37

        Yeah. But it's at the end of the day, we're, we're all human. Like, no one, no one escapes that. Like anxieties, insecurities, fear of failure, scarcity mindset. Everyone, everyone has it.

    13. SPSam Parr55:48

        Yeah. And it's cool to like meet some of the people you look up to and to hear that many of them have that same thing. It's a very, it's a very good feeling.

    14. CJCalum Johnson55:54

        Yeah. 'Cause they're just like you.

    15. SPSam Parr55:56

        Yeah. It feels great.

    16. CJCalum Johnson55:57

        What did you learn about how to overcome it?

    17. SPSam Parr55:59

        You just do it anyway. I mean, it's just, it's, it's a very relieving feeling to know that none of us really know what we're doing. And so if I just act more confident and I have a plan that I've thought through, even if that plan screws up, like that's, it's pretty w- it's a worthy cause to go after it. And as, I can lead people to, I can lead people down that path as, if I'm a, if I act confident about it.

    18. CJCalum Johnson56:22

        Hmm.

    19. SPSam Parr56:23

        And I'm honest about it the whole time. I'm like, "I think this is gonna work. I think this is gonna work if we do this, then this is gonna happen, then this is gonna happen. That's the plan. It hasn't been done yet, and it hasn't been done before, but I think we're gonna do it." So I try to be honest about it. But like, yeah, you just can, if, if you're, if you're confident and enthused, people will follow.

    20. CJCalum Johnson56:38

        Hmm. Okay. So you, so you build The Hustle, um, to this point. You now have huge viewership. What-- Or readership, I should say. What is the-

    21. SPSam Parr56:48

        I think, I think when we sold we had roughly 2 million people a day.

    22. CJCalum Johnson56:51

        2 million people. That's crazy.

    23. SPSam Parr56:53

        Yeah.

    24. CJCalum Johnson56:53

        Was the ... What was the point where you felt, and we even mentioned it in the beginning, right? Like you wanted to have this feeling when you were a kid of, "I don't have to worry about money anymore." When, when was the feeling that you genuinely, 100% just felt like, "I've made it"?

    25. SPSam Parr57:10

        When I sold I felt like that.

    26. CJCalum Johnson57:12

        Hmm.

    27. SPSam Parr57:12

        It took about a year to like get used to it, but basically my plan was, if I can, if I can ... So there's a lot of rumors for what we sold ab- sold for. Um, for most every rumor I've seen, i- it was, it was a bit more, um, than, than r- those rumors. Um, and when we sold, like I remember thinking like it definitely made me happier. Like to have that like fortress of s- like that fortress that like, "You can't fuck with me right now. Like, I'm good."

    28. CJCalum Johnson57:44

        Mm.

    29. SPSam Parr57:44

        Like, that made me feel good. But then like I'm 35 now. I think I sold when I was 31. Something like that. Um, like you, there's always n- levels though. So now it's like I need to get to 500. You know what I mean? Like, there's always like cra- levels. And that sounds like ridiculous, but it's no different than any sport where like you become elite and you do something amazing and you're like, "Oh, but I could do it even better."

    30. CJCalum Johnson58:04

        Mm-hmm.
12. 1:04:37 – 1:14:01

    How to improve your writing (DEMONSTRATION)

    1. SPSam Parr1:04:37

       this technique called copy work.

    2. CJCalum Johnson1:04:38

       Mm.

    3. SPSam Parr1:04:39

       Which is basically where I would get like the gr- and it's, like, a proven method to learning writing. It's the same way where if you were to learn piano, I wouldn't just point at the piano and be like, "Go write me a song." I would say, "Learn Happy Birthday, and then we're gonna do Jingle Bells, and then we're gonna move to, like, some simple blues music. And then eventually you're gonna do that for five years, and you're gonna learn to, like, steal and be in- influenced by a bunch of your favorite people, and you're gonna have your own flavor."

    4. CJCalum Johnson1:05:04

       Mm.

    5. SPSam Parr1:05:05

       That's ... I think it's the same case with writing. And so what I did was I found my favorite books, my favorite, um, famous newspaper articles. I found famous, um, sales letters, like, like website copy, and I would spend an hour every day word for word writing it by hand.

    6. CJCalum Johnson1:05:20

       Mm.

    7. SPSam Parr1:05:20

       And that's how I learned how to do it.

    8. CJCalum Johnson1:05:21

       Mm. You know what? I think in the beginning, part of the, the reason that makes it difficult, you don't even know what's good. Like, I remember when I started the podcast, like, I don't know what a good podcast episode is from the perspective of someone who's, like, a host. From the perspective of someone who's world class. You don't really even know as the beginner what's good. So how does ... When you say find good writing or, like, sales letters, like, wh- what are some examples or people-

    9. SPSam Parr1:05:45

       Like-

    10. CJCalum Johnson1:05:45

        ... you were following that was-

    11. SPSam Parr1:05:47

        Like, I would Google, like, "What's the world's greatest sales letter?" Like, it was that simple. And there was, like, a famous Wall Street Journal advertisement that went out that told a really good story, and they c- the Wall Street Journal claimed that this was their most successful ad of all time.

    12. CJCalum Johnson1:06:00

        Mm.

    13. SPSam Parr1:06:00

        So, like, it was that simple. Or it would be, like, The Catcher in the Rye, like a very famous American book. Like, I would just Google, like, "What are some of the most, like, beautifully w- well-written things?" Like, that, that, that's what I did.

    14. CJCalum Johnson1:06:11

        Mm.

    15. SPSam Parr1:06:12

        Judd Apatow, the, the famous c- comedian, uh, dir- the comedy director, he would do, like, famous SNL skits where he would write it out word for word. Um, and so it's just whatever you, like, aspire to be similar to or to write similar to, you just copy it word for word.

    16. CJCalum Johnson1:06:27

        Mm. You know, I actually, I actually love that framework. I think the thing I love about it as well, you made it like a daily practice.

    17. SPSam Parr1:06:33

        Every day you have to do it.

    18. CJCalum Johnson1:06:34

        Yeah.

    19. SPSam Parr1:06:35

        Yeah. To this day, sometimes if I have to write something, I'll, I'll go and do it.

    20. CJCalum Johnson1:06:37

        Yeah. Can you t- can you talk about more of that process in detail of, like, what was it that you were doing every day? Like-

    21. SPSam Parr1:06:43

        It has to be done not on g- uh, like, literally with a pen and a, and a notebook.

    22. CJCalum Johnson1:06:47

        Mm.

    23. SPSam Parr1:06:48

        So I ... In my home I saved them. I have got stacks of yellow notebooks, and I would spend roughly an hour every day for, like, 10 months, uh, just wr- writing it word for word.

    24. CJCalum Johnson1:06:58

        Mm. And it was even, um-

    25. SPSam Parr1:07:01

        And then I would, like, underline it. I'm like, "Oh, that- That phra- the way that he, the way that he, instead of using a comma there, he used a period, and he started the second sentence with the word and. That was kind of intriguing how he, that made me feel. You know what I mean? Like, I would just, like, write little notes in the margins like that.

    26. CJCalum Johnson1:07:17

        Yeah. You would get into the specifics of it. There was even-- You actually wrote out the framework. I saw it in an email. You said, "Step one is read and absorb. Find a great piece of writing that you would like to copy. Write it by hand on a piece of paper-

    27. SPSam Parr1:07:29

        It's gotta be by hand

    28. CJCalum Johnson1:07:29

        ... 30 minutes a day." You said, "Do not miss a day. This can potentially change your life. Skip one day, and you'll likely skip the rest." You then go on to say, "Make a swipe file. Throughout the day, as you see writing you like, save it." A swipe file is just a folder of writing examples that you like. And then number four, the final one, you say, "Before writing anything important, spend three to five minutes copying your favorite writer."

    29. SPSam Parr1:07:54

        Yeah. Yeah, that shit works, man. And I didn't, I didn't invent that process.

    30. CJCalum Johnson1:07:58

        Mm.
13. 1:14:01 – 1:30:37

    How to make $3M/Yr from your newsletter

    1. SPSam Parr1:14:01

       email me, say he's gonna create a newsletter on how to, um, pick which is gonna be the winning fight for a UFC fight. And so I'm like, "All right. So let's do the math." So, so you're gonna send that email one day per week because there's four fights per month.

    2. CJCalum Johnson1:14:17

       Mm.

    3. SPSam Parr1:14:19

       How many people in the world are gonna want this? Let's say you kick ass. I don't know, 50,000? Maybe 50,000. Now, the ad rate for them, I would ... I, I could go and find this by just typing in, um, like how much does DraftKings pay per thousand impressions. It's called CPM.

    4. CJCalum Johnson1:14:36

       Mm.

    5. SPSam Parr1:14:36

       I'm just gonna guess and say it's $10. So you're gonna do on your phone, do, um ... So 50,000 divided by 1,000. That should be 500.

    6. CJCalum Johnson1:14:47

       50,000 divided by 1,000. Yep.

    7. SPSam Parr1:14:49

       All right. Times four because we're sending four times per month.

    8. CJCalum Johnson1:14:55

       Yeah.

    9. SPSam Parr1:14:55

       And then what did I say the CPM was, 10?

    10. CJCalum Johnson1:14:57

        10.

    11. SPSam Parr1:14:58

        Times 10. That's what?

    12. CJCalum Johnson1:14:59

        Times 10. So I got 2,000.

    13. SPSam Parr1:15:02

        $2,000. That's how much money you're gonna make. That's shit.

    14. CJCalum Johnson1:15:05

        Mm.

    15. SPSam Parr1:15:06

        The reason it's shit is because the ... And people say like, "Well, but I'm passionate about this." And I'm like, "Yeah, dude, but the CPMs suck and not that many people want this thing."

    16. CJCalum Johnson1:15:13

        Mm.

    17. SPSam Parr1:15:14

        Uh, or if they really do want it, their buying power is, like, really low. They're just like, what does a bunch of people who wanna bet on sports have in common? They're gonna make some bets, but they're probably small, and, like, the commerce is not particularly huge.

    18. CJCalum Johnson1:15:26

        Mm.

    19. SPSam Parr1:15:27

        Now, let's say that you have, um, doctors. Let's just say that you have doctors part, um ... and there's 50,000 doctors in the world. Now, let's say they need news. Uh, like every day, six days a week, you're gonna send them, um, the latest and greatest on what's happening in the world of heart surgeon, heart surgeon news or something. I don't know. Uh, for them, I bet you can charge $1,000 per thou- uh, per thousand sends.

    20. CJCalum Johnson1:15:54

        Mm.

    21. SPSam Parr1:15:54

        And so let's say there's 50,000 of them.

    22. CJCalum Johnson1:15:56

        Mm.

    23. SPSam Parr1:15:56

        So there's 50... So that would be, uh, 50 times. And we're gonna do it. We're gonna send out e- Because it's news, we're gonna send it more than one day per week. We're gonna send it six days a week because it's news. They want something on Sunday as well, um, as, as well as Monday to Friday.

    24. CJCalum Johnson1:16:09

        Mm.

    25. SPSam Parr1:16:09

        So six times four is what?

    26. CJCalum Johnson1:16:11

        24.

    27. SPSam Parr1:16:11

        24. So we're gonna send 24 times a month.

    28. CJCalum Johnson1:16:14

        Mm.

    29. SPSam Parr1:16:14

        So 24 times f- uh, um, 50 is what?

    30. CJCalum Johnson1:16:20

        Is 1,200.
14. 1:30:37 – 1:37:00

    How to grow your newsletter consistently

    1. SPSam Parr1:30:38

       Like, what is this person? So for me, it was, like, a 26-year-old who lives in New York, San Francisco, LA, works at any of these thousand tech companies and makes, like, 100 grand a year. That's who I'm going after. So they're kind of a nerd. But where do they hang out? In my case, they hung out on Reddit. Uh, that was like a nerdy hangout place at the time. Um, so I was like, all right, what subreddits? What, where, where would they hang out, and, and what subreddits? And what topics are they currently reading about? And so I went and created content that I felt had a good chance of ranking high on those subreddits that were relevant to the person who I wanted to attract. And so for example, do you remember Soylent?

    2. CJCalum Johnson1:31:21

       Yeah, yeah, the drink, right?

    3. SPSam Parr1:31:23

       Yeah, it's like a drink. It's like a meal replacement drink that, like, engineers would drink. I paid a guy two grand- ... to live on it for 30 days and, like, write about it.

    4. CJCalum Johnson1:31:31

       Yeah.

    5. SPSam Parr1:31:32

       And so I had the headline. I thought about the headline first, the action, the AIDA, uh, of, "I lived on Soylent for n- 30 days. Here's h- what it made. Here's, here's what happened." And I posted that in the subreddit for Soylent, and we got, like 50,000 people who came to the site that week. And I would just do these, like, big articles like that all the time, and a lot of them hit, some of them didn't hit. But I would always think, like, "All right, so my audience is on Reddit, it's on Hacker News," and at the time it was in a variety of Facebook and Facebook groups. "So I'm gonna create content that's longform articles that's tailored for those people using headlines that will capture their attention." And then when they come to my website, I had a really funny pop-up that followed AIDA, and it said, "Oh, shit. Not another pop-up." And I said, "Hey, look, while you're here, here's the deal. This is actually a blog that I've written to promote my daily newsletter where I tell you all the business n- news that you need to know."

    6. CJCalum Johnson1:32:23

       Mm.

    7. SPSam Parr1:32:23

       "Sign up now, and if you don't like it, I'll Venmo you a dollar."

    8. CJCalum Johnson1:32:25

       Mm.

    9. SPSam Parr1:32:26

       And we would get, like, 30,000 people a month signing up for that.

    10. CJCalum Johnson1:32:30

        Mm.

    11. SPSam Parr1:32:30

        Um, and I would just churn these articles out like crazy. So only, like, 30% or 20% of them got a lot of traffic, but I would churn out so many that it kind of added up, so we were able to get 100 or 150,000 subscribers in the first 12 months maybe.

    12. CJCalum Johnson1:32:46

        Mm.

    13. SPSam Parr1:32:46

        And so if you do that full time, you could bang out that many articles too. [laughs]

    14. CJCalum Johnson1:32:52

        Yeah. You know, it's so, it's so good, and it's like, it shows how foundational and how important that AIDA framework is, right? Because all that you were doing is that you're creating ... The attention is, like, the viral article, the thing that gets, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of people see it. Maybe like a small-ish segment of those then click through to your page, maybe 10,000. And then you then have the interest and the desire built in the pop-up, which then convert, and you have the call to action.

    15. SPSam Parr1:33:20

        And then my welcome email was really good. If you Googled The Hustle's welcome email, a lot of people, like, wrote blog posts about it.

    16. CJCalum Johnson1:33:25

        Mm.

    17. SPSam Parr1:33:26

        It was, like, a very famous welcome email that I wrote that was really good. Um-

    18. CJCalum Johnson1:33:30

        Yeah

    19. SPSam Parr1:33:30

        ... I try to do what's called the forgotten text. So the for- so your welcome email, your unsubscribe page, things where you just use the stock text from, uh, your web provider-

    20. CJCalum Johnson1:33:39

        Yeah

    21. SPSam Parr1:33:39

        ... I always would customize those. That would ... Like, or your pop-up, I would, like, customize them to, like, stand out. Um, and that really worked well.

    22. CJCalum Johnson1:33:45

        Yeah. You know what's interesting about business and entrepreneurship? I think a lot of people that are really good at it, especially guys, started off as, like, gamers. And when I, when I hear, when, when you ... Even the way you're explaining it, it makes sense, 'cause it's kind of like ... I don't know. It's like when you learn ... I'm trying to think of the right game. But, like, it's when you learn those, like, strategy games or, like, those games growing up where you kind of figure out the way it's played and the rules, and then you're just optimizing the fuck out of it. And it's-

    23. SPSam Parr1:34:10

        Yeah

    24. CJCalum Johnson1:34:10

        ... just like-

    25. SPSam Parr1:34:11

        And that was the thing with the newsletters. A lot of people didn't think that it could be a real business. But I was like, "But no, like, the math says this." And they're like, "But dude, an email is, like, a joke." I'm like, "No, no, no. This is ... Like, the rules of the game are this. Like, but let's just add, like, three zeros behind, like, your subscriber count."

    26. CJCalum Johnson1:34:29

        Mm.

    27. SPSam Parr1:34:29

        Do you know what I mean? And it, and it ... That math still works.

    28. CJCalum Johnson1:34:32

        Yeah. If you were gonna use this same strategy in 2024, what, what would you do?

    29. SPSam Parr1:34:36

        Well, it all depends on where your audience is already living. So if I was gonna do tech and business, my audience is living on Twitter right now, so I would get popular on Twitter. If your appeal, uh, you know, if you're into a car newsletter or something like that, car YouTube is, like, pretty popular. Then I would make YouTube videos and get them to convert to, um, a newsletter. If I'm ... For me, I would never do a consumer newsletter. I would only do B2B.

    30. CJCalum Johnson1:34:59

        Mm.
15. 1:37:00 – 1:39:21

    Why are companies bought?

    1. SPSam Parr1:37:00

       gonna ... But with $100 million fund, I can buy 10 companies that are collectively worth a billion. And the reason I can do that is because I'm gonna use my 100 million to buy the companies, and then I'm gonna borrow $900 million to pay for the company. And in doing that, I'm gonna buy companies that have, uh, cash flow, and I'm gonna slowly grow the cash flow, and then I'm gonna sell that business in seven years, and I'm gonna return $1.8 billion." These guys get one bill- their one billion plus a percentage of the 800 additional million that we made.

    2. CJCalum Johnson1:37:30

       Mm.

    3. SPSam Parr1:37:30

       And I'm gonna turn my 100 million into- 500 million. You understand what I'm saying?

    4. CJCalum Johnson1:37:35

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SPSam Parr1:37:35

       So that's how PE works. And so a lot of buyers in newsletters are, they just want that cashflow.

    6. CJCalum Johnson1:37:41

       Mm.

    7. SPSam Parr1:37:42

       In my case, it's a sh- called the strategic. It's actually way better. So HubSpot is a company that sells CRM and website software. They sell it to small business owners, and the average, um, price th- of their software, I think, is around $20,000 a year.

    8. CJCalum Johnson1:38:00

       Mm.

    9. SPSam Parr1:38:01

       The Hustle had roughly 2 or 3 million people on their newsletter, of which a lot of them were small business owners as well as people who made software buying decisions. So Hu- HubSpot is thinking, "Well, I could go and buy ads to grow HubSpot, or I could just buy this newsletter and never have to buy an ad in newsletters ever again."

    10. CJCalum Johnson1:38:20

        Mm.

    11. SPSam Parr1:38:20

        "Because if I convert 0.1%, which would be of a mil- 0.1% of a million people is what, 10,000?"

    12. CJCalum Johnson1:38:28

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SPSam Parr1:38:28

        "So if I can get 10,000 of them to buy my $20,000 software, that's a lot of money."

    14. CJCalum Johnson1:38:32

        Mm.

    15. SPSam Parr1:38:33

        You know what I mean? And that's how they thought about it.

    16. CJCalum Johnson1:38:34

        Yeah.

    17. SPSam Parr1:38:34

        And, and that was a good math.

    18. CJCalum Johnson1:38:36

        Yeah.

    19. SPSam Parr1:38:36

        They did a good job.

    20. CJCalum Johnson1:38:37

        That makes sense. So it's either it's just su- such an extreme cash flowing asset, or it's just a strategic... Like, strategically for their business-

    21. SPSam Parr1:38:43

        Strategic is a way better way to sell, by the way.

    22. CJCalum Johnson1:38:45

        Yeah.

    23. SPSam Parr1:38:45

        You get way higher multiples.

    24. CJCalum Johnson1:38:46

        Yeah. That makes sense. Okay, no, this is so good. You know what? Here's, here's where I wanna end. We spoke kind of, like, in your origin, like, wanting to be in control of your life. That was, like, the big thing. That was the thing that you really felt is, like, you just wanted to have this autonomy, this control over your life. I'm curious now, because you seems like you've kind of done all of the things, right? Like, you have great wife.

    25. SPSam Parr1:39:12

        Oh.

    26. CJCalum Johnson1:39:12

        You have-

    27. SPSam Parr1:39:13

        Yeah

    28. CJCalum Johnson1:39:13

        ... child. You've made the money. Like, what is, what is your... Even it-- Let, you know what? Let me put it like this. If

16. 1:39:21 – 1:43:20

    Trust the process!

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:39:21

       the Sam Parr that's before me now, you're 35, you spoke with the Sam Parr that was 21 or 15 or I don't know what age is the one that's, like, a, an inflection point for you. What would you tell them? 'Cause it, it was, it'd be an interesting conversation to just see-

    2. SPSam Parr1:39:36

       Younger me?

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:39:36

       ... what you've achieved. Yeah. 'Cause you got the thing.

    4. SPSam Parr1:39:40

       Um, I really believe in, like, making a plan and following the plan and trusting the plan. I would tell myself to do that. I think, um... I think I would tell, like, 15-year-old me, I'm like, "You're the fucking man. You can do it." Like, I, I really was not a very confident person.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:40:07

       Mm.

    6. SPSam Parr1:40:07

       I knew I had some type of, like... I mean, everyone has a little bit of special stuff about them, and I wanted to, like, hide, like, my uniqueness. I, like, kind of felt like it wasn't cool to be, like, a dork and shit like that. I'd be like, "No," like, "lean into that shit. Lean into your weird quirkiness." Like, I remember being a kid, I'm like, "Dude, I wish I was, like, in part of a family like these TV shows where, like, they're all nice to each other. Or, like, I wish I lived in, like, one of these nice houses, like, in California." And never... And I'm like, "I wish I won all these things." Like, no, like, it's, it's cool to be different and, like, lean into, like, your kind of weirdness, and that is cool. People will be attracted to that, and you will get to where you need to go if you lean into that and don't be self-conscious about, like, being quirky or being weird. And, uh, I would just be like, "No, you're, you're the man." Like-

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:40:50

       Yeah

    8. SPSam Parr1:40:51

       ... it's cool, it's cool to be unique. Make sure you be- uh, what, what's the phrase? Uh, uh, watch your own drum beat or something like that.

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:40:57

       Mm.

    10. SPSam Parr1:40:57

        Like, do that. So-

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:40:58

        March to the beat of your own drum.

    12. SPSam Parr1:40:59

        March to the beat of your own drum. Yeah. I wish I would've had more confidence in doing that earlier on than I did.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:41:04

        Yeah. And you know what? It's, it's even funny just, um, when I'm doing these interviews, having these conversations, I observe the guest, right, as you're speaking. And it's like, I said it earlier, it's almost like the degenerate's guide to business. Every time that you speak about these stories of you, like, doing these crazy things-

    14. SPSam Parr1:41:20

        I used to be really embarrassed of that stuff, by the way.

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:41:21

        Yeah.

    16. SPSam Parr1:41:21

        I was really embarrassed about it. I was like, "I'm just, like, a fucking redneck."

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:41:25

        [laughs]

    18. SPSam Parr1:41:25

        Like, "What am I doing? I wanna be more-"

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:41:26

        But now your face lights up when you talk about it.

    20. SPSam Parr1:41:28

        Yeah. I was like, "I wanna be more refined." I was like, "I wanna be all, all the..." Like, no, like, be, be unique. And, um, like, even now I'm, I'm 35 and I hang out with people that are a little bit older than me sometimes, and they're more, um... I'm like, "I'm still a kid." And I was, like, self-conscious about that for a minute. I'm like, "No, fuck that, dude. That's the way to go."

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:41:44

        Mm.

    22. SPSam Parr1:41:44

        And so I'm-- now I feel very confident, um, that, like, the world is shaped by people, just normal people, and, like, I can make my own reality. I can kinda kick my dent in the world. And so now I'm a lot more confident of, like, not bending into other people's reality. I'm gonna bend my own. And so now I'm a lot more confident. But yeah, I wish I was more confident about that early on of, like, you don't have to do it the way other people do it. You don't have to act it the way that other people are acting. Like, it, it's all right. You can have your own path.

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:42:11

        Yeah. You know what's funny? I actually wrote that in my notes. I said, "I wanna maintain my childlike wonder." That's, like, the biggest thing. Like, if you can maintain your childlike wonder... I was on the subway on the way over here. There's this little kid sitting next to me, and, uh, everyone's quiet. He just starts shouting out. Kids will do that. They'll just... They're just themselves. They control their own reality. And it's like if you can maintain that, and you can lean into it, the things that you're good at, you can achieve incredible outcomes.

    24. SPSam Parr1:42:38

        Yeah. And it f- feels awesome. [laughs]

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:42:41

        Yeah.

    26. SPSam Parr1:42:41

        Like, the world wants you to be vanilla. Don't. Don't give into it. You know what I'm saying? Um, um, also life go by, goes by really fast, and, like, you gotta do it your way a little bit. You know what I'm saying?

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:42:52

        Mm-hmm.

    28. SPSam Parr1:42:52

        Um, and I get scared of that. [laughs]

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:42:54

        Yeah. Yeah. Sam Parr, thank you so much, man.

    30. SPSam Parr1:42:56

        Appreciate it.

Episode duration: 1:43:21