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The Calum Johnson ShowThe Calum Johnson Show

Robbie Lyle (EXCLUSIVE): Beef With Legacy Media & Building @AFTVmedia To Over 1 Million Subscribers

Watch more about how to take control of your life | Dontez Akram Timestamps 2:13: How Robbie’s parents set him up for success 13:20: How he scaled through the pitfalls of the music industry.

Robbie LyleguestCalum Johnsonhost
Apr 8, 20241h 47mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 2:13

    Intro

    1. RL

      Arsenal fans would come up to me, "Oh, don't like what you do. Shouldn't talk about the club." But-

    2. CJ

      Simon Jordan said on TalkSPORT, he said, "Arsenal Fan TV is drivel," adding, "It thrives on toxicity. It's a commercial venture, and the guy Robbie makes a fortune off of it"

    3. RL

      [laughs] He was very angry with me that day. He didn't even wanna shake my hand at the end of the show. As your thing starts to really grow and get big, people are gonna start coming for you. They're gonna start cussing you, criticizing you. But one thing-

    4. CJ

      Today's guest is Robbie Lyles. Robbie is the founder of Arsenal Fan TV and DR Sports. And let me just give you an interesting nugget. We just finished the conversation, shortly after the conversation, and Robbie turns to me and he says, "I revealed things during that interview that literally only my brother knows." And so I think really what you're gonna get in this episode is a true, authentic inside look into how one of the most controversial, unique sports media brands was built. And so, yes, now you see Arsenal Fan TV and DR Sports, and they're successful media brands. They're multimillion-dollar companies, but the journey of getting there was not that easy, especially from Robbie's perspective. He came across so much anger, so much backlash from sections of the media, from players and former players, from trolls and people online. He even tells a story during this episode where he was attacked, physically attacked by fans outside of the stadium that weren't happy with what Arsenal Fan TV were doing. And so I think for so many people, we saw this playing out in live time. I know I saw it playing out in live time. And in this episode, you get the true look, the true behind-the-scenes. And so I'm not gonna say too much more. We're just gonna get into it. So welcome to The Calum Johnson Show and our episode with Robbie Lyles. I

  2. 2:13 – 13:20

    How Robbie’s parents set him up for success

    1. CJ

      think so much of our character and who we are and the way that we behave is really formed in our childhood, in our early years. And so I actually have a photo for you.

    2. RL

      [laughs] Oh, God.

    3. CJ

      I have a photo for you.

    4. RL

      All right.

    5. CJ

      And I'm gonna show you the photo.

    6. RL

      [laughs] That's a photo, man.

    7. CJ

      Yeah.

    8. RL

      [laughs] Where you get that from? [laughs]

    9. CJ

      Trawling the internet-

    10. RL

      Oh, man

    11. CJ

      ... to find this.

    12. RL

      Yeah.

    13. CJ

      And so you know what? Tell, tell me about that childhood. Tell me what were some of those early experiences that really shaped who you are today?

    14. RL

      Um, well, my childhood was good. You know what I mean? Um, that's... You can see my three brothers in the, um, picture. There was four of us. Four boys, right? Hence [laughs] the whole football thing going on in the house. But, um, four boys. Um, parents were Jamaican, and, uh, they moved to England where we've been... They moved to England in the '60s and set up home in London, and that's where we were all born. And then when we were younger, they moved to Luton. Um, my dad's, um, got a job down there. Um, so Luton was always big for, like, um, the Vauxhall car factory and that.

    15. CJ

      Mm.

    16. RL

      So, um... And then, yeah, we, we did our, you know, grew up with most of our schooling and that in Luton. And it was, I, I, I'd say childhood-wise, it was a happy childhood. Strict house, you know, Jamaican house, old school.

    17. CJ

      [laughs]

    18. RL

      My dad was proper old school as well.

    19. CJ

      Yeah.

    20. RL

      Right? So, but you know what I mean, uh, lots of love in the house. Lots of love in the house, you know. My mum, um, very, uh, church-going. Y- your, your typical Jamaican family of those, those times, you know what I mean? But, um, a really, as I said, a really loving house, you know what I mean. I, I, I got on great, and my brothers still do. Get on brilliantly with my brothers. Um, we, our parents really guided us and really, you know, instilled some really good principles in us. And, um, I think those have stayed with us to this day. And, like, you know what I mean, all of my brothers, you know what I mean, have gone on to do really good things as well, so it's fantastic.

    21. CJ

      Yeah. You know, you mentioned some of those principles. Um, and I, and I'm just curious to get into it. We even actually have a, an image of your dad. Um-

    22. RL

      Mm-hmm

    23. CJ

      ... and what were some of the, what were some of kinda the principles, some of the things that he was teaching you that kinda stick with you right now?

    24. RL

      Well, hard work.

    25. CJ

      There it is.

    26. RL

      Yeah. Big up my dad. Um, hard work. You know, um, he always used to, uh, use the saying of, you know, um... And he, he's still true to this day. He goes, "When you're a Black man" Because he w- he was a very, uh, he was, he was a man that was, like, always reminded us of our culture and who we were and, you know. And he'd be like, "As a Black person in the UK," uh, especially in those times, he goes, "You're gonna have to work twice as hard, um, if you're gonna be successful. So don't think you can just go and just work, just do. You're gonna have to put it in." And then I used to watch him, how hard he used to work, because he would, he w- he w- b- was a plasterer. Um, and sometimes when [laughs] I used to go and work with him, man, I tell you, he'd be, he would push you.

    27. CJ

      Mm.

    28. RL

      He'd be like, "Yo, Dad, w- w- when we gonna get, like..." 'Cause sometimes we'd go and work with him in the summer. We'd be like, "Yo, when's the, you know, break, tea break?" He goes, "Which tea break? [laughs] We got, we gotta mix up the, the concrete, daddy."

    29. CJ

      [laughs]

    30. RL

      Right? So, um, so he, yeah, hard work, discipline. Um, you know, work hard at school. Don't play around with the school ting with him.

  3. 13:20 – 28:35

    How he scaled through the pitfalls of the music industry.

    1. RL

      I was, so, so I was making, I was making music and, um, I made a, a tune called Proud to Be Black, that my brother had a sound system and, um, started, him and his friends and I started MCing on the sound system and found out that I had a real talent for it and people used to say, "Robbie, you're really good," 'cause I was very good at writing lyrics. And then, um, I did this tune called Proud to Be Black, which I just used to perform on the sound systems, and that tune blew up and got to number one in the UK reggae charts and started blowing up in America. It was doing really well and I was starting, now all of a sudden you're starting to get big.

    2. CJ

      [laughs]

    3. RL

      And you, you know what I mean? You're, you're, you're going all over the UK and doing shows in different countries like, uh, s- particularly like, uh, Europe, France, Germany a lot, America. I even did a reggae Sunsplash in Jamaica. And then you're in that field where, and them times the reggae fields, bit, like I said, a little bit Wild Wild West. So you have to, you know, as a young person in it, sometimes you have to have some people around you-

    4. CJ

      Mm

    5. RL

      ... that I wouldn't say it's protection, but those people make sure you get paid, for instance. 'Cause, you know, you go and do shows, a lot of people who did, who promote shows and that in those days weren't the sort of promoters you'd see now.

    6. CJ

      Mm.

    7. RL

      They were drug dealers or they were a little bad man in Adeyemi and them two, you know [laughs] what I mean? But you know what I mean? That's what it was like. And so I used to know all them man there, and you know, when you know these sort of people, you know, certain things start getting put your way. Oh, and I, and I remember one time there was one where it was like, "Uh, well, Robbie, you're making a little change now. Why don't you come and invest?"

    8. CJ

      Mm.

    9. RL

      And I'm not talking about the type of investments that is like [laughs] real estate and stuff like that.

    10. CJ

      [laughs]

    11. RL

      I'm talking about an investment, basically an investment into drugs, yeah?

    12. CJ

      Mm-hmm.

    13. RL

      And the way it was put to me, right, is big money. It's like you invest like a five grand, you know, within a month that's could double. And I know the people that was putting me in that, that proposition to me, and I saw what they were doing and I, I believed them. I believed it would double. But when I went home the night, I could- I remember I could hardly sleep.

    14. CJ

      Mm.

    15. RL

      And I was just like, "Nah, man, this is not... Suppose this thing goes wrong, man, and then my dad and my mum, I'm gonna have to talk to them," and I was like, "Nah." And I had a, a very sleepless night.

    16. CJ

      Mm.

    17. RL

      And then, and, and, and I knew these men and, and like, you know what I mean? And, uh, I went back the next day and I said to him, "You know what? Thanks for the offer and thing, but it ain't for me, man. I just wanna make music. That's... I do the music thing, you know?"

    18. CJ

      Mm-hmm.

    19. RL

      "It's not really my thing." And the thing that's always stuck with me to this day is that the person, I'm not gonna say his name, but, but the person who, who, who put that proposition to me, he said to me, "You made the right decision." Because if I'm being, he goes, "If I'm being honest with you, Robbie, it's not good business." He goes, "You come out..." And I'll always remember what he said. He goes, "You come out your house in the morning, you're looking over one shoulder for police, and you're looking over the other shoulder for bad man."

    20. CJ

      Mm.

    21. RL

      Right? And he goes, "That's the business." Right? And, and I was glad I didn't get into it and, you know, later on down the line, that person got locked up. You know what I mean? For a long time as well, like he did about 10 years.

    22. CJ

      Mm.

    23. RL

      You know? Long, long time, right? And so, um, I, that's, I put that down to the fear of letting down my parents. I'm like, because at the time I'm thinking it could be a easy money, it could be a easy... But that fear of the words that they instilled in me, the things they told me, I was like, "Nah, not for me."

    24. CJ

      Mm.

    25. RL

      And then, you know what I mean, you're, you're, as I said, you're in a business where, you know... Like I remember like I'd go to shows. I remember one time I did a show in, um, why am I telling the audience that? [laughs] But I remember one time I did a show in Frat, right? And we was up on the stage and they came, the promoter came round and he had two envelopes, and he gave it to me and said, "Yeah, this is for you." I said, "Oh, cheers. What, what is it?" I'm thinking, "Boy, a man's paying me already. Oh, this is good."

    26. CJ

      [laughs]

    27. RL

      When I opened one, opened one of them, it's full of weed. When I opened the other one, it had coke in it.

    28. CJ

      Mm.

    29. RL

      So I'm like, "Yeah," I said to the guy, "Yeah, what's this?" I go, "Yeah, I don't smoke, so I don't need that one, and I definitely don't need this one." And I gave it back to him. And he goes, "Oh, oh." He's like he was surprised. Like, I'm thinking, "What? You think anybody, everybody does reggae smokes?" You know what I mean? Or does... I said, "I don't, I don't..." You know what I mean? I said, "If you wanna get me something, get me a, get me a brandy."

    30. CJ

      Hmm

  4. 28:35 – 36:29

    The Untold Truths about the music industry.

    1. RL

      I don't really tag... I, I can't really see one. You know what I mean? My, um, the music, I could see it coming. So I, I'm, I'm doing the music thing, and I was doing it for a few years and doing well. But I could see it coming. I could see, like, you know, 'cause music's, music's a thing. I, I, I always say I, I big up any musician that's on top for a long time. It's so hard because new people come along. Younger people come along, and then they, they... You know what I mean? You, you're, you're, you know, you're trying to replicate what you did before, but it's not always easy. And I, you know, I was chatting to one of my friends the other day, Tipper Irie, who's like, he's still to this day doing music and doing really well. And I go, "Yo, Tipper, you know, honestly, you don't know how well you've done, man." You know what I mean? Like, to be still doing it after all these years, right, and still be making a massive living out of what you do is fantastic. But it's, with me, I could see, I could see it coming. I could see that things were waning a bit. I could see that shows were a little less. I wasn't, you know, I was doing, making tunes, but they weren't as big as the previous stuff. So I could see it.

    2. CJ

      Mm.

    3. RL

      You know what I mean? I, and I, and I was, and I was comfortable with it. I was like, "Yeah, I've had a good ride, but my ti- I need to start looking at other things now." You know what I mean? And I started, and, and I did for a while. I then started getting into more DJing, and I worked on the radio. Um, and I, I did very well at that for a period of time. And then I saw that that was kinda, you know... And then, uh, you know, I had to go and, you know, start saying to myself, "I need to, I need to start g-..." 'Cause I worked be- when I first started doing the, uh, music, I was working as well. I worked, um, in the civil service-

    4. CJ

      Mm

    5. RL

      ... for the, um, DHS. Um- So I started to say to myself, "Right, I'm gonna have to..." You know, I worked in, in it for a few years, then I was doing music full time. Then I started to see, man, "Oh, I need to get a job. I'm gonna need to get a job." Now, there's a lot of artists who they don't, you know, they, they've been... And again, that's because of the ego thing. Because they've been up there and everybody's been bigging them up, "Oh, yes," this, that, they don't wanna go and get a job. They wanna just keep going and going and going, and they just believe that, you know, they're too... It's like they almost feel embarrassed that, you know, "I was this artist that everybody was looking up to, and now I'm gonna have to go and get a 9-to-5 like everybody else." But I weren't like that. I was kinda like, "Yo, I need to get a 9-to-5, man. I've got a house to pay for. I need to go and, I need to go and work." So I saw it coming, man. I, I, I was, you know... And I, and I guess that's because I, I didn't have the big, big ego to.

    6. CJ

      Mm.

    7. RL

      It's hard. I ain't gonna say, I ain't gonna lie. You know, I remember I'd be working and people going, "Yo, Ro- Robbie. I never knew you worked in... What? What?" And I knew that when they're gone, they're chatting me.

    8. CJ

      Mm.

    9. RL

      I knew that when they're gone, but I'm thinking, "Yeah, bredrin, you're not paying for my, you're not paying for my house, bro. You're not putting food on my table. I need to put food on my table now. I need to work."

    10. CJ

      Mm.

    11. RL

      So.

    12. CJ

      I feel like that is unique. And the, and the reason I say it's unique-

    13. RL

      [laughs]

    14. CJ

      The reason I say it's unique-

    15. RL

      It's tough, bro.

    16. CJ

      Yeah.

    17. RL

      It's, it's... Listen, I ain't saying it's easy either-

    18. CJ

      [laughs]

    19. RL

      ... because it's not. Because like I said, when you get them little situations where people come and say those sort of things to you, you're like, "Wonder if I could get back in, innit?"

    20. CJ

      Mm.

    21. RL

      But then reality, you gotta look at reality, say, "Yeah, no, actually, bro, it's... Them, that man there who's just running up is mad. He not paying for my bills."

    22. CJ

      Mm.

    23. RL

      "N- no, don't care."

    24. CJ

      Yeah. I just think about it from the, from the mental standpoint of, and even if you just think about what's happening in your life, it's, uh, you get this, like, hit track, "Proud To Be Black," and it's being listened to everywhere, and you're getting validation, you're getting all of these things from it-

    25. RL

      Yeah

    26. CJ

      ... and it, and it's going up and up. And so you get to see and experience this new lifestyle. And so I al- I almost think worse, it's almost worse to see what could've been and then have it come back down to where you're going.

    27. RL

      But then also, right, again, this is where the ego thing, right? So also your, your... It's a re- I was in a reg- UK reggae industry. You're making money, but you're not making millions. You're not making huge money.

    28. CJ

      Mm.

    29. RL

      You're making decent money, you know? Um, but you're not making huge, huge money. So everybody thinks you are, 'cause everyone just thinks the minute you make a, um, uh, music, I guess it's the same for all the artists now.

    30. CJ

      Yeah.

  5. 36:29 – 52:32

    Robbie’s story of running a nightclub.

    1. RL

      as well, where I used to promote events, pro- promote clubs at nightclubs. Did pretty well out of that. Was doing well, so well till one time this guy who had a nightclub said, "Robbie, do you wanna buy it?" I said, "Buy it? Well, I ain't got money to buy your club." He said, "No, we can sort out a deal. You pay for it in installments-"

    2. CJ

      Installments

    3. RL

      ... like you just... I said, "All right." Was doing that. That was doing all right. Then came out of that. Then I was promo- promoting, um, did another club with a friend of mine. Fr- uh, the, the friend of mine that I did the other club with, me and him used to go to Highbury together, watch Arsenal. Um, did that. That one flopped. I mean, it- you know, and it flopped, that club, remember that flop wasn't because of w- of us. We were, we promote, we were great promoters. We used to get people in. But because of problems at the club, because the police there didn't really... The police and licensing people hated our club. They didn't like the fact that, you know, every weekend it's a bunch of Black people. This is my personal opinion.

    4. CJ

      Mm.

    5. RL

      But I just felt like they didn't like the fact that every weekend that club was packed with Black people. They thought it was gonna be a load of trouble, stuff like that, and they did everything they did to, to, to shut it down, and they were very successful. They did shut it down, and I lost a load of money. And, um, but from that, then I went quiet again, working, just getting on with... That's when I started to work and train as a surveyor and was doing my surveyor stuff and all that, keeping my head down, paying back [laughs] some of the money I owed.

    6. CJ

      Yeah.

    7. RL

      Because, uh, not all the money that I had for that club came from a bank, right? [laughs]

    8. CJ

      [laughs]

    9. RL

      You know the type I-

    10. CJ

      Yeah

    11. RL

      ... you know the type I'm paying back to, right? Where you have to pay it back. [laughs] Those ones you can't-

    12. CJ

      Gotta get that money back.

    13. RL

      You know them ones you can't default on. Yeah.

    14. CJ

      [laughs]

    15. RL

      I had a few of those, right? So had to pay back their money, their money. I paid them all back. Got back their money. Kept my head down, do my thing. But even then I was just like, you know, you... It's almost like you're sort of scratching yourself. You're like, "Oh, doing this job, man. This job's all right, man, but I wanna do my own thing, man." You know what I mean?

    16. CJ

      Mm.

    17. RL

      That's, it's just, just me. And, uh, that's when then eventually I got, went on to start doing AFTV.

    18. CJ

      Yeah.

    19. RL

      I had the idea for a long time.

    20. CJ

      Mm.

    21. RL

      Right? It just started off as a little seed, and I had the idea for a long time, but I hadn't put it into fruition.

    22. CJ

      Yeah.

    23. RL

      And, you know, it's my friend who, me and him had the club, that he was doing a boxing channel, and I saw what he was doing. A couple times he said to, to me, he goes, "Yeah, Robbie, going, doing this fight up in Liverpool. Do you wanna come?" And I say, "Yeah." He goes, "Yeah, can you hold a camera for me?" I go, "I don't know about a camera, Brendan. I don't know." He goes, "Just g- just o- I'll focus it and that. All you gotta do is hold it." I said, "All right." And then I s- went and saw him in action and that, and I was like, "Yeah, this is YouTube."

    24. CJ

      Mm.

    25. RL

      "You can put the content on YouTube." And it's from there, that's when I started thinking to do this.

    26. CJ

      Yeah. You know, I wanna, I wanna get deeper into the AFTV stuff. But before we do, um, you know, I'll speak with my friends, I'll speak with peers, and one thing that I hear from them, and I feel it from them, is this... Because wh- when I listen to your story, there was almost like this experimentation phase. Like, you were trying all of these different things. Uh, there was the club, there was the reggae artist. Like, you were trying your hand at all of these pursuits, and it would start kinda successful, and then it would come down.

    27. RL

      Yeah.

    28. CJ

      And you'd have to bounce back and do it again. And when I speak-

    29. RL

      I wouldn't call them experiments. At the time I thought they were, uh-

    30. CJ

      You thought they were it

  6. 52:32 – 1:00:20

    Why you MUST be different to win

    1. CJ

      there was something that you mentioned and you said, um ... And it's such an exciting time in a business where you start to see this can actually be something. You just start to get, see some of those signs of, "This could actually be my full-time thing. Like, this is going somewhere."

    2. RL

      Mm.

    3. CJ

      And I'm curious, when we get into the origin of Arsenal Fan TV, what was the moment, or maybe it's even a series of moments, where you just started to think, "There's something here. It's more than just, you know, rec- recording and putting it on YouTube. Like, there's actually a business. There's something here for me"?

    4. RL

      I think it's ... Listen, there was a one period when load of videos blew up and we had a viral moment. Um, funny enough, one of the guys who was that big video that blew up was here recording earlier.

    5. CJ

      Mm.

    6. RL

      Um, Chris Hudson. And, uh-

    7. CJ

      I remember that video.

    8. RL

      You remember that?

    9. CJ

      Yeah.

    10. RL

      He was here. He was-

    11. CJ

      That was the first one I ever saw

    12. RL

      Yeah, he was here earlier, man.

    13. CJ

      Yeah.

    14. RL

      It was good to see him. You know what I mean? Um, he was recording on a episode we call Supporters Club. And, um, that was the real one that really blew up. That, and there was other videos on that day, and the next day newspapers were contacting me, and this. I was like, "Yeah, man, we've flown."

    15. CJ

      We're back.

    16. RL

      "This is viral." You know what I mean? But even before that, though, I could see the thing growing, and what I liked about it was the interaction that we were getting from, um, people that were watching the content, the response. I knew already that this is gonna be, um, good, because I could see the, the ... It was a completely different feeling to all the other things I've done because of the feedback and the ... And, and, you know, and I was always sort of like, as well as this being a business, you know, I'm a fan. I'm a massive Arsenal fan, and we're providing a service, and people are really appreciating this service, and this service is for free. Um, I could see it rising. I could see it building. I could see ... Yeah, I had a good feeling. I had a good feeling about this one. This one felt right

    17. CJ

      Hmm. You know what? I wanna give-- I wanna make sure that, um, I give context to people because I think looking at it now in 2024, where we see fan cams and we see even people that are just sports fans and football fans having personalities and influence, it feels like a common thing. But in the time period that you're talking about, taking a camera out and recording someone who's just an Arsenal fan, they're like a football, soccer fan-

    18. RL

      Mm

    19. CJ

      ... is, is unique. Like, it's not really something-

    20. RL

      No one-

    21. CJ

      ... that's blowing up on the internet. Um, and so I-- and even... You know what? Go, go a bit deeper into that first viral moment, 'cause I even remember the, the energy and the context around the club and, um... I ro- actually, I remember the, even the game when that, that video-

    22. RL

      Villa

    23. CJ

      ... blew up. Yeah.

    24. RL

      Yeah.

    25. CJ

      And it was right at the start of the season, right?

    26. RL

      Right at the start of the season, what happened was we had had a really... Arsenal were going through a tough time. Um, we'd had a summer where we hadn't bought any players, and the fans were mad frustrated because I think every fan were like, "Yeah, we need a striker, we need a defensive midfielder, we need a we..." You know. I'd been doing a transfer show all summer. We didn't buy no one. We come to our first game, everybody's already a bit frustrated and saying, "Oh," you know, "how have we not bought no one yet? Everybody else around us is buying. Now, why are we not buying?" And then, um, we go and lose our first game of the season to Aston Villa, and then the frustration just boiled over. And I think what those videos that we did captured was the frustration of the fans, and that's why they were so-- they went so big, because they all spoke from the heart. They were so frustrated, and that's why it was just compelling content. Um, the one with Chris Hudson, I remember, like, when we filmed that video, he, like... We would just stop setting up, 'cause obviously we, you know, I, I watch every game. I'm a, I'm a season ticket holder. So I come out, and we're just setting up, and he come up and he goes, "Listen. Hold on, hold, hold, hold." He started ranting already. [laughs] I go, "Hold on, hold on. Let's get the equipment together." And he goes, "Oh," he goes, "what I've gotta say, you lot won't put out." And I said, "No, we will." I said, "We allow... This is our platform. This is what we... we're about on this platform. We're about people having their opinion." And then, yeah, and then he just went in [laughs] . He went in. And I even just, like, when I was interviewing him, I was like, I was like, "I can't disagree with anything this guy's saying." Like, he's just [imitates explosion] .

    27. CJ

      Hmm.

    28. RL

      And it just... And then there was other videos after that that same day, and they just all blew up. They all went viral. They all went... And I was just like, "Wow."

    29. CJ

      Mm.

    30. RL

      You know. Um, but nobody was, nobody was doing it how we did it. Nobody was really... You see some team, some people interview fans before a game. You see people interview fans and package it up all together, like the game come out like three, four days later. Whereas my thing was different. I'm like, "Nah, we want the videos to come out the same day, as quickly as we possibly can get them out, so that, you know, we're in that conversation when people are talking about games." So we did things a lot different, and we did things that, like, they've never been done before. Never.

  7. 1:00:20 – 1:08:12

    I was living a double life (How Robbie built AFTV while working a 9-5)

    1. RL

      [laughs] You know what I mean?

    2. CJ

      Yeah. What did your life look like at that point? Are you still working?

    3. RL

      I was still working, yeah. Yeah, yeah, still working at that point. I remember, um, one of the things I used to do is, like, [coughs] 'cause as it started to get bigger and bigger and bigger, at my workplace, they'd be like, "Robbie, we, we saw a video this week" It's like you interviewing a fan in, outside West Ham. I remember my boss was a West Ham fan, right? He go, "That was you, innit? Yous interviewing a guy outside West Ham." And I, I just go, "Yeah, yeah, that was me." He goes, "So what's this, what's this then?" I go, "Nah, it's my friend's thing, 'cause my friend's got a little channel. I just can't help him out." And I always tell him [laughs]

    4. CJ

      [laughs]

    5. RL

      So I never really told him the full-

    6. CJ

      Yeah

    7. RL

      ... It's funny enough, right, I met my boss, my ex-boss, right, on a tube one day. Um, that was about a year ago. And then he goes, "Now I know what you was up to."

    8. CJ

      [laughs]

    9. RL

      And, uh, we had a great laugh, man, because he was such a, a nice guy, right? He still works at the same place in Stratford. And he's going, "Now I know what you was up to." I was going, "Yeah." I go, I couldn't, I couldn't, um, say, 'cause that was the other thing as well. I'd learnt that from before because I'd had another job one time when I did the music thing, when they knew what I was do- so I, when I, when I first was doing the music, I also was, like, working as well at the same time, and, um, I didn't hide what I did. And you started to see a little jealousy in that workplace creep in.

    10. CJ

      Mm-hmm.

    11. RL

      They all thought I was making big money.

    12. CJ

      Mm-hmm.

    13. RL

      So I remember one time I, I had to, I'd, um, somebody had asked me to do a show in America, and I asked them for holiday. And they said, "Nah, we can't give you that holiday." And I was like, "Why? There's no one else who's on holiday at that time. I'm only asking for like four days." And I realized that the, the sup- the, the, um, head of my department was just jealous.

    14. CJ

      Mm.

    15. RL

      He thought I was making a load of money. And in the end, I almost had to threaten to leave for them to give me the leave, and I had to take it as unpaid leave. And then I, I learnt from then. So that's when I was doing this one now. I, every time they'd ask me, and I was go, "Oh," I go, "you know I'm out of season ticket holder at Arsenal. I'm just helping my mate out." You know. He's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, okay." Until it started to get big, big now, right? That excuse started to wear out.

    16. CJ

      [laughs]

    17. RL

      You know what I mean? They see that peop- companies have done interviews with me. I was talking about how I set it up and all that.

    18. CJ

      [laughs]

    19. RL

      [laughs] They're like ... Right, so-

    20. CJ

      They're like, "It's him."

    21. RL

      [laughs]

    22. CJ

      [laughs]

    23. RL

      Yeah, yeah. I c- they were, they were just on my case. I'd come in on a Monday, they'd be on me, man, like, "What happened?" They'd ... Uh, you know what I mean, so, um, [laughs] but, um, yeah, it was, it's good times, though.

    24. CJ

      Yeah.

    25. RL

      Good times. It was good times.

    26. CJ

      And I'm curious, 'cause you, I think, I, I was watching, um, an interview you did where you mentioned, like, newspapers or, like, radio stations.

    27. RL

      Yeah.

    28. CJ

      That you're starting to get, like, almost national coverage, and-

    29. RL

      That, that, the, when those videos blew up, bare national coverage. And every newspaper, they running the video. Some of them nicked it, didn't even ask permission. I had to get in contact and say, "Yo, how are you running my video?" What, what's ... You know.

    30. CJ

      Mm.

  8. 1:08:12 – 1:13:19

    When should you quit your day job to focus on your business?

    1. RL

      on AFTV didn't suffer, and I just made sure that... And that's how I managed to juggle it.

    2. CJ

      Mm.

    3. RL

      You know?

    4. CJ

      That gave you the time to get it right.

    5. RL

      Yes.

    6. CJ

      To get it right.

    7. RL

      Till eventually you come to the stage where it's like, "Right, it's time to leave that job now and do it full time." And that's a tough decision to make as well.

    8. CJ

      Mm.

    9. RL

      'Cause I'm working a job, paying me decent money. I'm back on my feet again. Remember I told you how rough things were before that. So, you know, you got family to explain things to, say, "Yeah, I'm gonna, gonna do this full time." "What? Remember when this... What happened with that?" "Trust me, it's gonna be all right this time." Um, but you're still running a risk because there... A lot of people are, are... I, I give a lot of talks at colleges and schools and that, and people always ask me, "When did you know?" I said, "Do you know what?" And they goes, "When did you know? Now, you know that time when you're earning so much more money on this that you could..." I said, "Listen, that's not what happened in my thing." You come to a point where you say to yourself, "The only way I'm gonna be able to make more money on this is if I leave that." And you're taking a risk because you are hoping that your extra input now and that into this side is gonna lead to you, um, you know, lead to you being able to leave that side and don't feel the effects. And you do feel the effects at first because, you know, you, you've only got one income again now. And, um, and you have to make that work. So you actually find that you're, you know... I, I thought it'd be easier because I thought, "Right, I'm leaving a full-time job, and now I'm just concentrating on this full time, and, uh, it's gonna be less work for me now. I'll just be able to do a bit more on that, but I'll have more time to myself." No, because you've gotta make that work. You'll work twice as much as what you did. You're working harder than you was doing before.

    10. CJ

      Mm.

    11. RL

      Because you've got to make that work now. Now you're... But I like that. I like that. You're out of your comfort zone now, so you can't play around. That has to work. Has to. And I'm a person that's... Going back to what we was talking about, like, with my dad, I'm not scared to work. That he instilled that in me. I'm not scared of things. I've gotta... And if I have to work till... If you said to me today, "Robbie, we're gonna be working here tonight till midnight," you can ask any of my guys, I'll be here.

    12. CJ

      Mm.

    13. RL

      I'm not scared of work.

    14. CJ

      Mm.

    15. RL

      If we have to work 24 hours, we'll work it. I've been on tour doing our thing. We've had, like, half an hour sleep. We'll have half an hour sleep. We'll sleep when we get back home. I'm not scared of that. So when I moved into that, now doing that full time, ooh, that was some work.

    16. CJ

      Mm.

    17. RL

      I was knackered. [laughs]

    18. CJ

      [laughs] Yeah. You take the leap, and I remember how it felt to me when I made the decision to leave my job. It felt very much like a leap of faith, and it sounds like it was similar for you.

    19. RL

      It is.

    20. CJ

      Yeah.

    21. RL

      It is a leap of faith.

    22. CJ

      100% a leap of faith.

    23. RL

      100%.

    24. CJ

      And so I'm curious, what happens, what happens after the leap of faith? What are like... The same way that that Chris Hudson video, it feels like an inflection point. It feels like it was going like this and then up. What were some of those other moments after you made that leap of faith where you look back on now and you're like, "That was another turning point"?

    25. RL

      There's so many. I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, there's so many. Things just started to happen, man. Like, for starters, like, consistently we're getting great numbers. Um-

    26. CJ

      What are great numbers? Like, just put it into context for people.

    27. RL

      Yeah, great numbers for me is anything from... We do so many videos, so to me, great numbers is anything from 50,000 views up. You know, when you're doing so many videos... 'Cause the thing about, um, when you're making content around football is it doesn't have a lot of shelf life, most of the content. It's not what they call evergreen content. So, um, it's relevant to a game, most content. So, you know, if, if we're talking about, I don't know, the, the, the last game that we had, you know, it'd be relevant leading up to it, it'd be relevant on the game, it'd be relevant for a couple of days after. Everybody moves on to the next game. And what- So your, your content... So if you can get, you're getting 50 up on, you know, those are brilliant views, 100,000, 250,000. You start going, "Them, those are unbelievable views." Um, so we started getting loads of videos that... Me, me and I've always been like this, I don't so much look on the, the headline viral 1,500,000, 750,000. I don't so much look at those. I like to look at more like the consistent numbers, the consistent... When I start seeing those doing well, that's when I'm really happy. 'Cause you can have a viral video today and then nothing for... I've seen a lot of content creators that'll do this big viral video, a million views. Well, that's fantastic, and then their next 10 videos is, like, done barely nothing.

    28. CJ

      Mm.

    29. RL

      I don't want that. I want consistent numbers.

  9. 1:13:19 – 1:14:55

    Robbie’s confrontation with Gary Neville

    1. RL

      So we were doing consistent numbers, and then there was just, like, big moments. I remember when we had that little clash with Gary Neville-

    2. CJ

      Mm

    3. RL

      ... you know, when he had a go at us and was talking about, you know, um, how it was the c- you know, it was what we're doing is embarrassing, and then I had a go back at him. I remember I was at a party that night, and I saw the video he did, and I was like, "Nah, man. This guy's out of order." I go, "Respect him as a footballer and everything, and a pundit, but how dare he?" I was angry.

    4. CJ

      Mm.

    5. RL

      Went on my phone, recorded a video, put it out there. That went [laughs] went viral. Um, and then it culminated with us meeting up and doing a video and, um, us talking about, you know, uh, but end, ending, ending it with a lot of respect for each other. You know what I mean? And, and that was a big turning point, 'cause Sky invited us to do that. Um, and I think that put a lot of eyes on what we did-

    6. CJ

      Mm

    7. RL

      ... outside of our, you know, our sphere of people. And then just, like, so many-

    8. CJ

      Mm. You know what, actually? Let me-

    9. RL

      So many

    10. CJ

      ... let me give some, let me give some context to that because... And, and it was interesting to me just as a viewer. And, and these times I'm probably, I don't know, 15, 16 years old.

    11. RL

      Mm.

    12. CJ

      And so I've, I've seen this fan channel, and I started to tune in every week 'cause I'm, I'm an Arsenal fan. Um, and I'd love to just see the reaction and see how, like, other fans were feeling. And so you kind of go from being this quite niche fan page to getting views, and like you say, you're getting views with such a consistency and such a regularity that you're now getting the attention of, like, what I'd call, like, the legacy media.

    13. RL

      Yeah.

    14. CJ

      Like, the established

  10. 1:14:55 – 1:24:54

    The Media backlash

    1. CJ

      media-

    2. RL

      Yeah

    3. CJ

      ... here in the UK, that's, like, Sky Sports or, um, even, like, ITV or BBC. Like, these-

    4. RL

      All of them

    5. CJ

      ... these-

    6. RL

      Every newspaper, all of them. A lot of them are hating on us.

    7. CJ

      Yeah.

    8. RL

      Lots and lots of them, man.

    9. CJ

      And, and you know what? Let me... 'Cause I even have a few, I have a few quotes here. Not to take you-

    10. RL

      Okay. [laughs]

    11. CJ

      ... down memory lane, but, um, so this is what Gary Neville said. He said, "I walked out of the Chelsea ground yesterday and saw some of these Arsenal Fan TV things everywhere. And to be honest with you, it was embarrassing watching and listening to it." Simon Jordan said on TalkSPORT, he said, "Arsenal Fan TV is drivel. Um, they operate on misery," adding, "It thrives on toxicity. It's a commercial venture, and the guy Robbie makes a fortune off of it."

    12. RL

      [laughs]

    13. CJ

      Uh, Ray Parlour called you guys embarrassing on TalkSPORT. And so I'm curious because I go back to, like, where your, where your mentality was at that point because you have this thing... And, and you know what's even interesting, is when you put it in the perspective of these different entrepreneurial ventures that you'd done previously, where they're starting to work, and then there's a moment where it almost feels like it loses steam, or some sort of external influence comes in and ruins what we have. And so just me judging from the outside, it almost felt coordinated. It felt, um, like they were really trying to take, take you out. And-

    14. RL

      No, no, they were. They were trying to take you out

    15. CJ

      ... I'm, I'm just curious, given what had happened before, and given how, how much you'd bet personally on this working out, where was your mind at when you start to hear these different things? And people I'm sure that you even respected, that you had watched-

    16. RL

      Mm

    17. CJ

      ... on TV, on the radio. Ray Parlour, Arsenal legend. Like, they're starting to come at you in this way. What is the feeling?

    18. RL

      D- Bit different this time because, like, my, my thing is now they're coming at us because they're scared, some of them. Some of them are s- like you said, some of the legacy media are thinking, "Hold on a minute. We thought these guys was just some loud rabble-rousers and the thing, and they're here every week. And every week there's more videos and more and more and more. What's going on?" And now they're trying to take it down. But I knew that we had a big following. So, like, you say something about me, I mean, Simon Jordan had a go at me, I'll say something back because I know that my audience is bigger than yours. So let's go, right? So that's what [laughs] I mean. So I wasn't... I'm not scared. I ain't scared of these men. I was like, "You know what? You're gonna say what you gotta say. I'll say what I gotta say because I..." And also, I know what I'm doing. I know the people are loving the, you know... Not, not everybody loves what we do, obviously. But I know that we got a lot of people who love our content, who've been following it for years. Like you said, you were, from you was 13 years old, you're watching it. I see the response that we get for the majority of people, so I'm quite confident. I'm like, "Yeah, you can stay over there. We just lost 6-0 to Chelsea, and the fans are unhappy. What, you want them to come out there and be jumping up and down thing?" And then Simon Jordan, how many games have you been to? Do you... You don't even go to football games, and you got- you're gonna come and tell football fans that go and pay their hard-earned money this and that. I was like, "No, I'm come back. I ain't scared of you, man. I'll come back, and I'll say my piece."

    19. CJ

      Mm.

    20. RL

      Right? And you know. So this one I was like, "You ain't..." Th- this one for me is like, "You ain't taking this down, bro. You ain't taking this down, and I will fight you." Okay, right? No, no, o- obviously, you know.

    21. CJ

      [laughs]

    22. RL

      But I, I will fight for, I will fight for my, um, for what I do because I know what I've built. I've taken time to build it. Where were you, man, when, you know, I was doing this with no money? All my, uh... I heard people saying about, like Simon Jordan was saying how much money I made. He did not finance this. I did out of my own pocket without no loans, without no nothing. Out my own pocket, I financed it. Right? Plus what? Am I not allowed to make any money? Only you can make money. I can't make money? So I was just... Listen, I was ready for them, man. I was ready for them. When they start come, like loads of them come as well. Like, you just named out a few. Loads come. Loads and loads of legacy media, fan groups that didn't like us. They... I've been getting it for years. But bro, I just look at, I'm hardened now from all the things I've told you earlier as well.

    23. CJ

      Mm.

    24. RL

      I'm hardened. Maybe that, that, that, that, that's what's molded me now. I'm hardened, so I'm like, "Yeah, bro, you can talk," as they say. [laughs] You know what I mean? As they say back in the reggae music, "You can talk. Talk if you want to talk, but me I'll do my thing and me, I'll come through."

    25. CJ

      Mm.

    26. RL

      And not only that, I'm the first of many. I'm just sort of... I'm not the first guy coming through the gate. There's enough men coming behind me as well. You can't stop this movement now. It's almost like a movement. There's a different type of media. And, and, and, you know, so I... Listen, they've come for me hard over the years, man. You do have to have a thick skin. You hear something said about you, you know what I mean? Told about this and that. But I was like, "Keep talking."

    27. CJ

      Mm.

    28. RL

      They've got a saying, innit? They said, "Boy, when no one's talking about you, nothing nah gwan for you." Right? So keep talking, right? So yeah, and it, you know, you, you know, when, when certain people said stuff, you know what I mean? It did, it did affe- affect you. But do you know what as well which was a really great thing? I remember like, um, some of the things that were said, some of the responses I got from like even... I remember I got a message from Ian Wright that, um, to this day I was so grateful for. He was like, he messaged me and he said, "Yeah, listen, you keep doing your thing. What you're doing's brilliant. You put your work into it. Not everybody has to like what you're doing. Keep working hard. Don't watch the noise." I remember I met Levi Roots, the-

    29. CJ

      Mm

    30. RL

      ... he's, you know, the Reggae Reggae Sauce.

  11. 1:24:54 – 1:31:47

    Don’t let the hate get to you.

    1. RL

      I tell you, n- like, for a f- for a good few years, like, they come for me hard, hard, hard There's still, even to this day, you get man like Simon Jordan's always talking about AFTV, man. I have to one day... This man, I call him the Nigel Farage of radio.

    2. CJ

      Mm.

    3. RL

      You know what I mean? I'm like, "Well, this man all talking about me. D- but I, I don't talk about you." Always hear him little digs. "The AFTV, that mob from AFTV and that." Bro, why do you think you're on the radio? That's what I told him that day when he was there. I go, "You're only here because you're controversial. You're not on talkSPORT for your looks."

    4. CJ

      Mm.

    5. RL

      "You're there because you're a controversial guy who talks about f- um, football, and you're good at what you do. But don't fool yourself, right? You know what I mean? What- don't think you're better than us just because, I don't know, where you was educated or whatever, because you're not, right? And also, you don't get the numbers we get."

    6. CJ

      Mm.

    7. RL

      [laughs] "So relax. You do your thing," like I said about the thing, "you do your thing, we do our thing." But it's like he's obsessed, man. He alw- guy's always talking about... The amount of times I've been driving in my car, I've been listening. "Yeah, them lot from AFTV. They..." I was like, "Bro, is this man still hurt from that time I went on that show?" 'Cause I know he was very angry with me. [laughs] He was very angry with me that day. Very angry. He didn't even wanna shake my hand at the end of the show.

    8. CJ

      Mm.

    9. RL

      But that's all right.

    10. CJ

      Did it feel personal to you?

    11. RL

      What, with him? Very, very personal.

    12. CJ

      Why do you think that was?

    13. RL

      Just the, just the way he w- the way he was, the way he went in. Um, as I said, he didn't wanna shake my hand at the end of the show. Before the show started, they said they're gonna do a photo thing at the end of the show with us shaking hands, and he didn't wanna shake. Like, I, I thought... I think, personally, I think he thought I was just gonna come in there and just be your typical, you know, maybe Black guy that's just gonna start... In, in his eyes, because it's not a typical Black guy, but maybe just thought I was just gonna cut... When, when the pressure come on me, I'm gonna start cussing.

    14. CJ

      Mm.

    15. RL

      Say, "Yeah, boy, move and..." Nah, I just sat there. I had to listen to what he had to say. I respectfully disagreed with absolutely everything he said, and told my point of view. And I don't think he liked some of the things I said. Maybe he didn't think that I was gonna have a go at him, because I was like, "How can you tell... You don't go to games. You're on radio talking about football. W- how many games have you been to?" He was telling me about Crystal Palace. I know in general, you're talking about football in general. Surely you should be at... Can't just watch it on your TV and tell... A football fan is going to watch a game week in, week out. So I did feel it was very personal. But didn't surprise me, and had it before, and it's kinda, kinda goes with the territory, innit?

    16. CJ

      Mm.

    17. RL

      Kinda happens. But as I said, you can't force everybody to like what you do, because, you know, there's a lot of people who don't like his show, but his show's still popular. So, um, you can't force... Listen, just gotta do... You know, a lot of people don't like Kim Kardashian, but she's big.

    18. CJ

      Mm.

    19. RL

      A lot of people don't like Jay-Z. He's big. You know what I mean?

    20. CJ

      Mm.

    21. RL

      A lot of people don't like Arsenal. They're big.

    22. CJ

      Mm.

    23. RL

      You know what I mean? So you just gotta do what you're doing to the best of your ability. You gotta expect these things to come when you start. The bigger you get... I speak to influencers all the time, and I say to them, "Listen, this is coming. Be ready for it. Be prepared."

    24. CJ

      Mm.

    25. RL

      You know what I mean? Don't... Again, I pass on the message that I had. Don't let it derail you. Don't let it affect you. It's gonna affect you a bit. You're gonna feel, you know, but don't, don't dwell on it too long, because, you know, the next day it's another news cycle or, you know.

    26. CJ

      Yeah.

    27. RL

      So...

    28. CJ

      Yeah, no. I, I... And I, and I get what you're saying about, um, you have to have thick skin. You have to have thick skin in this game, and, and that comes with the territory of people-

    29. RL

      Mm

    30. CJ

      ... watching and consuming your content. But at the end of the day, we're all human, right? And so I'm curious, I'm like-

  12. 1:31:47 – 1:36:06

    The toughest moment in building AFTV

    1. CJ

      Mm.

    2. RL

      What I pack up when I'm ready to pack up, you know what I mean? That's how I am.

    3. CJ

      Mm.

    4. RL

      You know?

    5. CJ

      Yeah. Was an- was there an instance where, where it felt like it nearly derailed what you had going on? And, and I'm not talking about, like, it ruined the channel or anything, but for you it was just like, "Maybe I need to take, like, an afternoon off. I need to take, like, a day off from this," like-

    6. RL

      Oh, yeah. L- well, listen, I've had a lot of those-

    7. CJ

      Yeah

    8. RL

      ... where I just feel like, you know what I mean, I need a break.

    9. CJ

      What, what... Is there a moment that kinda comes to mind where you're like, "That's the one that really just stuck"?

    10. RL

      I remember, um, I remember there was an incident in the Emirates where some guys came, they were Arsenal fans, came and they tried to stop us from filming. They, they ran upon us. They tried to, like, it nearly turned into a big fight. My, my nephew got involved, and where that was really bad, that situation, um, was that the week before that, um, my niece had passed away suddenly.

    11. CJ

      Mm.

    12. RL

      Um, and, you know, my nephew had come to the game to try and take his mind off it. And then my brother, um, obviously it's his daughter, and we're all there, and these guys come at that time, and that could've got really bad because honestly I was so angry. So, so angry that day. But again, and what I said to you, sometimes there, it's like God's directing you, is that I don't know how I didn't react. I was there pulling my nephew away saying, "Listen, leave it, man. Leave it. Leave it." And he's going, "No, but, but..." I said, "Leave it. Let's leave." Right? And I think that's God. That's God saying to me, "Yo, listen, you've got..." Because that could've turned into something really nasty. Even after it, like, I had lots... I told you already, the business I used to be [laughs] in music and-

    13. CJ

      Mm

    14. RL

      ... people I knew. I had lots of people ringing me up, "Yo, Robbie, you know what? We'll take care of it." I said, "Nah, nothing, nothing to take care of. It was just an incident. It's cool." You know what I mean?

    15. CJ

      Mm.

    16. RL

      And I'm s- you know, because if we, if I would've reacted to that, maybe to this day, like, you know, there'd be no AFTV.

    17. CJ

      Mm.

    18. RL

      You know? So I remember that was a big one. That was a big one, and I'm so glad to... I'm proud of how I reacted to it. At the time I weren't, I was like, um, at my home, I'm going, "Yo, Robbie, you gone soft."

    19. CJ

      Mm.

    20. RL

      "How you making man come near there telling... Well, I've gone soft or something, man. This, but," you know. We all know where we're from. We know we're supposed to... A bit like that film Carlito. You ever seen that film Carlito's Way where the guy goes, "Well, you know what happens next"?

    21. CJ

      Mm.

    22. RL

      "We know how this story works normally. You're supposed to run back up on these men." But something inside of me was saying, "No, no, no, no, no. I know you're upset. Calm down. It will sort itself out." And it did. Actually, one of them guys, one of the guys out of it did come back, um, several weeks later, but he did come back and apologize. Um, and I accepted that, and we moved on. We move on from it. But at the time I was really seething, man, with anger, like... And I think a lot of it was to do with the circumstance of what happened the week before, 'cause, you know, my brother had lost his daughter, and as I said, it was a sudden... And you got all the, you know... And that's the other thing. Sometimes you got a lot of things going on in the background which people don't know about that, you know. So, and that was going on, and funerals to sort out and, you know, your brother's on the floor because he's lost his daughter. Um, my nephew's on the floor. The, the whole family's on the floor, 'cause she was much loved, you know? So I think that was a, that was one where, you know, I was really affected at the time. But something just made me not react.

    23. CJ

      Mm.

    24. RL

      Or not react in the way I was gonna, that I, I think I would've reacted back in the day, you know? It's, which was, you know.

    25. CJ

      Yeah. You know what? As I, as I listen

  13. 1:36:06 – 1:39:43

    FAITH is the only way to make it through

    1. CJ

      to your story and I, I just observe, there's a, there's a belief and, like, a faith aspect that is, is very important part of it.

    2. RL

      Yeah.

    3. CJ

      Um, just trusting and, and it not even being clear exactly in that moment what you're trusting, but trusting that it will work out.

    4. RL

      Yeah, I told you already, I believe in God, and, you know, I went to, I used to go to church as a kid, and, you know, I be- I believe in God. I believe in God. I believe there is a God, right? So, and I believe that, you know, I, I have faith, you know, that, you know, when I pray to him, when I ask him for things, I have faith that, you know, he will deliver. I always just say to people, he doesn't deliver in the way we think is gonna happen.

    5. CJ

      Mm.

    6. RL

      So sometimes you pray to God, and you ask for something, and he does it in his way. But he will do it, and he does it in his time.

    7. CJ

      Mm.

    8. RL

      And his time ain't our time. 'Cause when I ask for something, I want it tomorrow.

    9. CJ

      Mm.

    10. RL

      And his time, it could be in two years. But you just gotta believe. You gotta believe. And I do think that sometimes, like, he's guiding and he's, he's talking, and even sometimes when bad things happen, you know, that's part of, you know, you ... 'Cause we can't comprehend God.

    11. CJ

      Mm.

    12. RL

      'Cause look what he, look what he created. So we can't comprehend God, and, you know, and, and sometimes I question if there ... I still sometimes question, when you see some of the things going on in the world, some of the conflicts and some of ... You think, "Why? Well, if there is a God, why haven't we just done, done all that?" But I don't ... I've sort of now said to myself, "No, but it has to be a thing that we just have to say to ourself, 'We don't understand it. We can't comprehend it.' One day maybe it will become clear to us why these things happened." Um, but I do believe there's a God. I really do. Um, and I know that there's been moments in my life that he's been guiding me, because if not, like I said, that situation there, nah. There ain't no God, man.

    13. CJ

      Mm.

    14. RL

      You react to that. You gotta deal with that. You know what I mean? And probably we ain't doing no interview right now.

    15. CJ

      Mm.

    16. RL

      Or the interview's ... Well, you know when everyone's behind bars, like [laughs]

    17. CJ

      [laughs] The jail thing.

    18. RL

      Yeah, on the phone.

    19. CJ

      [laughs]

    20. RL

      You know when you see them films and the guy's on the phone going, "Yeah, well." [laughs]

    21. CJ

      [laughs]

    22. RL

      "So tell us your story."

    23. CJ

      [laughs]

    24. RL

      And then you've got a little paper like that, right? Yeah.

    25. CJ

      And then it's timing out every other-

    26. RL

      Yeah.

    27. CJ

      [laughs]

    28. RL

      "All right. That's it. Time."

    29. CJ

      [laughs]

    30. RL

      "You can come back and see us next week."

  14. 1:39:43 – 1:47:46

    You must suppress your emotions and do the work.

    1. CJ

      give a word of advice for that person that is, they are deeply in that moment where, like, it just feels like everything in them is getting tested, and it's like, "Can I stay the course?" What would you say? What would you say to that person?

    2. RL

      Yeah, obviously stay the course and try not to react to things based off of, of your emotions at the time. Um, so many times you go and take a step back, reflect on that thing, and your view of it is different. Um, there's a lot of times we react to things with emotions. Um, and the trick of it is to try and react to things without emotion. And it's not easy, 'cause we all naturally react to things with emotions. If some- someone comes in here and does something right now, just think, "I'm gonna react to it with emotion." But if you can try to take a s- step ... 'Cause so many times, innit, we, we have things happen. It could happen now, and by the time I get home and I've s- you know, settle myself down, had a little drink of coffee or tea and as the night's going, I think, "Actually, why did that guy say that to me? I wonder if, I wonder if something's going on with him. I wonder what ... Let me ring him up and see. You know, let's sit down and talk about it properly."

    3. CJ

      Mm.

    4. RL

      You know what I mean? So try not to react with, um, pure emotions 'cause [laughs] that's when it can be problems.

    5. CJ

      Mm.

    6. RL

      You know?

    7. CJ

      Yeah.

    8. RL

      And it's difficult because sometimes we do. We, you know, just naturally react in emotions, don't we?

    9. CJ

      Yeah.

    10. RL

      You know? So.

    11. CJ

      Yeah. You know what? Here, here's where I wanna end, and, um, so cool even just, you know, like, hearing the story and just thinking of the space that we're in and the billions, like, with a B, billions of views that you've gotten across AFTV and DR Sports and, and all of these things. And my mind turns to something that you said earlier, and we used that kind of analogy of, um, Tom and Jerry, like the devil and the angel on your, on your shoulders and feeling, feeling like your mom and your dad and, like, what they instilled in you is always with you. And I'm curious because you went from a channel that, you know, you're working a job. You're working a 9-5. You have your friend, he's just there helping you record, to a channel now where, you know, millions of dollars in turnover or revenue. You h- employ multiple people. You have all of these cameras. You have a studio. Your-

    12. RL

      Studios.

    13. CJ

      Studios.

    14. RL

      [laughs]

    15. CJ

      Thank you. Thank you for the correction.

    16. RL

      [laughs]

    17. CJ

      Studios. Um, you know, you're doing something that you love as well-

    18. RL

      Yeah

    19. CJ

      ... for, for, like, in an area that you love. And I'm just curious, we just take that analogy a little bit further of your mom and your dad on your shoulder, and them just observing and watching-

    20. RL

      Mm

    21. CJ

      ... everything that you've done and achieved. I don't know. If you, if you, if you had, like, a conversation with them, I'm just curious, like, what do you think that they ... What do you think their thoughts on it would be? What do you think that they would feel about everything that you've done to this point?

    22. RL

      Yeah, I, I think they'd be very proud. I think they'd be very, very proud. Um, you know, my mom passed away- Passed away before I was doing this. My, um, and then my dad passed away recent, you know, last few years. So he saw what I was building, and he was really telling me that, you know, he's proud of what I was doing. My dad's not a-the sort of person that come load you up with [laughs]

    23. CJ

      [laughs]

    24. RL

      Yeah, he's... I told you, he's old school.

    25. CJ

      Yeah.

    26. RL

      But he'd be the sort of person who goes, "So the thing where you are doing the Arsenal Fan TV, it's all right, you know."

    27. CJ

      [laughs]

    28. RL

      "Yeah, no, you're doing well."

    29. CJ

      Mm.

    30. RL

      That was enough for me because then I know he's well proud.

Episode duration: 1:47:46

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