Viral Creator Reveals How To QUIT Your Job and Be A Content Creator As An Introvert | Nicky Saunders

1. 0:00 – 2:15

   Intro

   1. NSNicky Saunders0:00

      Okay. At 3:47 in the morning, if someone wakes you up, holding your eyes, and I say, "Yo, video, audio, image, or written, what are you creating?" Whatever your answer is, that's what you create every single day. I literally got sick. Like was in the hospital sick, and I couldn't really figure out why. In between that time, that's when I found E. And the- the later version of get- me getting sick was that like turning point of I need to get out of this 9-5. This just isn't me. And that did not come with an easy road. Like that was a 30k cut that I took from my job. And then of course, uh, I was married at the time. And that transition of everything that was happening, it actually caused a divorce. And yet I still felt the freest.

   2. CJCalum Johnson0:46

      What does it take for me to go from the 10,000 to 100,000? Like when we're really getting up there in the numbers-

   3. NSNicky Saunders0:53

      Yeah

   4. CJCalum Johnson0:53

      ... and it's like a brand.

   5. NSNicky Saunders0:55

      One of the biggest lessons that I learned was that-

   6. CJCalum Johnson0:59

      Today's guest is Nicky Saunders. And to kind of give some context, Nicky is the content strategist. And the story is just so interesting. Someone, uh, that was in the navy for years and years and years, then goes into a banking job in IT that they just don't like, it's not for them, navigates through that, and becomes Eric Thomas' social media manager, the person that's managing all of his media. Takes that account from 300,000 to over two million followers in 18 months. And Nicky came on the show today to break down exactly what it takes to build an audience and a brand on social media. And I use the word brand intentionally. I think really the thing that you're gonna get from this episode is not only the story of someone that did it themselves, but the practical information of how you can go from having zero posts online and nothing, not a trace of you on the internet, to building a loyal, committed audience, that you're also able to make money from it and a living from it, that just loves you for being you. So such a fun episode to record. Thank you to Nicky for coming on. And let's get to it. You're watching The Calum Johnson Show. First time we spoke on the phone, I asked you, I was like, "How would you describe

2. 2:15 – 5:20

   How anyone can build an authentic brand.

   1. CJCalum Johnson2:15

      what you do?"

   2. NSNicky Saunders2:16

      Yeah.

   3. CJCalum Johnson2:16

      And you said, "I'm the content strategist."

   4. NSNicky Saunders2:18

      Yeah.

   5. CJCalum Johnson2:19

      There's also the context of, um, you worked with Eric Thomas-

   6. NSNicky Saunders2:24

      Yeah

   7. CJCalum Johnson2:24

      ... the hip-hop preacher-

   8. NSNicky Saunders2:25

      Mm-hmm

   9. CJCalum Johnson2:25

      ... building his social media following.

   10. NSNicky Saunders2:26

       Yeah.

   11. CJCalum Johnson2:27

       Uh, taking it from 300,000 followers to over two million followers.

   12. NSNicky Saunders2:31

       Yep.

   13. CJCalum Johnson2:32

       And so I'm gonna ask you that same question.

   14. NSNicky Saunders2:34

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CJCalum Johnson2:35

       How would you describe what Nicky Saunders does?

   16. NSNicky Saunders2:39

       So it's funny 'cause I was on a recent live, um, uh, with Curtis King, and he's like, "Yo, you're like the content whisperer." I was like, "What does that even mean?" He's like, "Remember the dog whisperer Cesar?"

   17. CJCalum Johnson2:49

       [laughs]

   18. NSNicky Saunders2:49

       And he's like ... I was like, "Yeah." He's like, "You're that." I was like, "I'm gonna run with that because I really don't know what it means." But for me, um, my biggest thing is just the message and how do we make it the most authentic, right? Because I'm- I'm realizing in the season that we're in, it's like everybody who is just themselves, it works. I think we're over the whole, uh, certain kind of character. And so my whole job is to make people feel super comfortable and super seen, that when we are talking about their content, it's just, it just comes out natural. Like they're creating in a very easy way. They're distributing it in a very easy way. And so that's- that's my whole thing. Like when I- I look at back at all the things that I've done, it's not necessarily, okay, I have the latest tips and tricks and updates and everything, even though I do, but that's not really the thing. It's really looking at how do I become a fan of the brand and like even telling the person, "How can you become a fan of your own brand," to where it's like I'm doing everything based off like what just feels good to me.

   19. CJCalum Johnson3:59

       Mm.

   20. NSNicky Saunders3:59

       What feels good for the people. What feels just like wholesome and pure than necessarily gimmicky and like trendy and everything like that. Because that works for a certain amount of time, but what I'm realizing with the longevity, even with E and everybody else, it's more of, like how do we, how do we stay the same way? ET is the- the yelling guy, as I like to call him. Like he yells. He- he'll make you feel like you could go through a wall. Like how do we make sure he's in that, the content that comes out is in that place all the time, where you're like, "Okay, it's like 11:00 at night, and I really don't feel like going through a wall. I really need to go to sleep actually. I know not to watch him no more." So it's, it's more of that. Like how do we get, make sure, like when I talk to you, when I talk to anybody, like how do I make sure that you feel comfortable and natural, but like not gimmicky?

   21. CJCalum Johnson4:55

       Mm. You know what's interesting? So like, um, in all the conversations that we've had-

   22. NSNicky Saunders5:00

       Yeah

   23. CJCalum Johnson5:00

       ... I think there's been recurring themes. There's been things that you've mentioned again and again. And one of them is being authentic.

   24. NSNicky Saunders5:07

       Yeah.

   25. CJCalum Johnson5:07

       Being yourself.

   26. NSNicky Saunders5:08

       Yeah.

   27. CJCalum Johnson5:09

       Um, having fun being yourself.

   28. NSNicky Saunders5:11

       Yeah.

   29. CJCalum Johnson5:11

       Being comfortable. And so I- I- I wanna get deeper into your story. And so why, why is that

3. 5:20 – 19:11

   People don’t matter.

   1. CJCalum Johnson5:20

      so important for you?

   2. NSNicky Saunders5:21

      Mm.

   3. CJCalum Johnson5:21

      Why is there such an emphasis on the, the being authentic part of it?

   4. NSNicky Saunders5:26

      I think because when looking back at growing up, I didn't really know like what I was going to be and like really who I was. Being an only child, you're kind of isolated. So you create your own world, but then when you go outside of the world, you're like, "What am I doing, and how do I stand out," right? Um, so being an only child, shout out to my mom, but very overprotective child. Um, Black and Puerto Rican, so I wasn't Black enough. My mom never s- uh, taught me Spanish because in hopes that my dad would, me and my dad would always talk and things like that. So I never learned Spanish, but I was the one that was going to the Puerto Rican Day Parades in the front, and they're like, "Why, why are you so... H- you are the most Puerto Rican person that is not fully Puerto Rican that doesn't speak Spanish."

   5. CJCalum Johnson6:15

      Mm.

   6. NSNicky Saunders6:15

      This is the wildest thing, right? So, uh, of course being a LGBTQ+ then trying to figure that out, especially in a, when I was growing up in a world that it wasn't necessarily as loud as it is, right?

   7. CJCalum Johnson6:30

      Mm.

   8. NSNicky Saunders6:31

      Um, I was in the Navy, and it was still in that era of like, "We really don't talk about it." Like, it's n- it, it, it was, like, the ending of the don't ask, don't tell situation, but then it was like we don't have necessarily the problem, but we just don't talk about it. So I never really felt like myself until after the Navy, until I got with, you know, ET and things like that and really saw him being like, "This is who I am, and you're gonna rock with it," right? And even g- getting with E, because of how, you know, he's a pastor, he's extremely Christian, Seventh Adventist, like, I still didn't. I was like, "Oh, I'm, I can't get too close to him. My mans doesn't even like my kind." Like, that, that's not even, you know.

   9. CJCalum Johnson7:17

      Yeah.

   10. NSNicky Saunders7:18

       That's another thing. Like, I, I grew up Catholic, and because of my sexuality, I was like, I always felt like a outcast. So, okay, where do I really stand out in the world, right? And g- when I started seeing E be the way he is, and then when I really started paying attention to the people who were actually standing out, I'm like, "They got a audience of just them doing that? Oh, there's probably other people that have the same situations as me," right? But even when I started, I still led with, like, expertise first, right? Because I still didn't want... I'm, I'm a, what I call, like, a public private person, right?

   11. CJCalum Johnson8:04

       Mm.

   12. NSNicky Saunders8:04

       I'm outside, on- online, not really outside. I'm an introvert. Um, I'm outside, but you really don't know my public, like, what I really think about and things like that because I was like, "If I say too much, they may think this." Like, the f- the funniest thing was, uh, I recently got engaged, and if I wasn't so confident in the way that I am now, I, that was the most followers I lost, when I announced my engagement to my fiance, right?

   13. CJCalum Johnson8:34

       Mm.

   14. NSNicky Saunders8:34

       Most beautiful thing. Everybody loved it, but it was the most following that goes down, and I was like, "I can understand why people don't show their authentic selves," because there's still a lot of people who don't accept certain things. And if you're not strong enough, like, if you don't know who you are, it really can mess with you, 'cause it messed with me for a little. I was like, "As much as good I do in this world, like, how do you not?" So in, in that just looking at the journey of things of, damn, I've never felt, uh, like accepted. I've never felt, uh, truly, like, in a community, in, like, a group of people. Even growing up, the not having that many friends to now because of the community that I've built, built and just showing up. Like, now I feel like there's a purpose and a place, and there's people who really need what I have because I'm just like, at this point, w- you're just gonna hear me, and we gonna show my dog, you know what I mean, who breaks everything in my life, but that's another story in itself. Um, you gonna s- see my fiance at times. You're gonna see the behind the scenes, and there are people who, like, s- stop me and be like, "Yo, thank you." Like, we were at the Thick Media situation a couple weeks ago, and, uh, one of the guys who has, I mean, millions of followers, has thousands of views on his, on his live streams every single time, was like, "You make me wanna be more authentic" just 'cause of how I was. I was like, "Do you know your stats? Do you know..." But I, I've realized that there's different things that are important to people, you know, and that he may have felt that I have to be this certain kinda way, but I'd rather be... L- let me just come with the jean jacket and a hat and some J. Like, I don't wanna be in this suit.

   15. CJCalum Johnson10:31

       Mm.

   16. NSNicky Saunders10:31

       And it's, it's really, it's really refreshing. I, I really wish I had this type of confidence before. Um, well, not, I don't wanna even say confidence. The, the level of I don't care before, but, you know, you gotta go through the journey.

   17. CJCalum Johnson10:45

       Yeah. You know what? That's so interesting because, um, and, and even just meeting you in person today, it's like you're so comfortable being yourself.

   18. NSNicky Saunders10:55

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CJCalum Johnson10:56

       It's like the fitted hat.

   20. NSNicky Saunders10:57

       Yeah.

   21. CJCalum Johnson10:57

       The tracksuit.

   22. NSNicky Saunders10:58

       Yeah.

   23. CJCalum Johnson10:58

       The Ray-Bans.

   24. NSNicky Saunders10:59

       Yeah.

   25. CJCalum Johnson10:59

       The, I even, I commented on your, uh, Crenshaw Nipsey Hussle hoodie.

   26. NSNicky Saunders11:05

       Yeah.

   27. CJCalum Johnson11:05

       And so I'm sure there's people that watch you and people that are listening that are like, "I can't believe that there's a moment when she wasn't like this."

   28. NSNicky Saunders11:15

       Yeah.

   29. CJCalum Johnson11:15

       Like, there was a moment where, um, she did care what people thought. And so can you take us back to that moment? Like, when, when you reflect back-

   30. NSNicky Saunders11:26

       Mm-hmm
4. 19:11 – 26:38

   The tough jump between your structured life and freedom.

   1. NSNicky Saunders19:11

      I, I got, had a bank job, right? And so I was behind a desk t- it felt like 24/7, but for your, your eight hours I was behind a desk, right? I literally got sick, like sick, was in the hospital sick. Um, and I couldn't really figure out why. I was like, "Yo, what's, what's up with me?" Um, in between that time, that's when I found E. And, um, the, the later version of get- me getting sick was that, like, turning point of I need to get out of this 9-5. This just isn't me. And realizing that when I was with, you know, E and, and the different events and things like that, I felt free, right? I felt, um ... And, uh, and I, thinking back at it, it's like growing up ov- with a overprotective, uh, family, then going into structure, you always ha- feel limited. And then I went and I found E, and I went to the different events, and I felt like this weight off of me.

   2. CJCalum Johnson20:22

      Mm.

   3. NSNicky Saunders20:23

      Right? And I didn't wanna let that go. And when I realized when I went back to work, 'cause in between, th- this is how I was able to go and volunteer for over two years 'cause I still had that bank job, right? But going back, I would almost go into, like, a mini depression, right? Um, thinking about like, "Okay, I gotta go back to the 9-5 and when is it g- when's the next event?" And things like that. Uh, and you know, w- even when I was in the Navy I had, uh, I had suffered through depression, so I'm very aware of when that happens. So in that moment of one place I felt free, the next place I felt limited again, I've, I felt there was a turning point where I had to let that go. But I'm hard-headed, right? So something dramatic has to happen for me to let it go, and that was me going into the hospital and being like, "No, you're sick. Like, you know what this is. You know that feeling, and you're intentionally going back because of safety and security and benefits and things like that. What's more important?" And in my head I was like, "I get it," but God was like, "Oh, no, I'm gonna make you ... Health is way more important, so I'm gonna need you to f- fix this right now or you're gonna stay right here." Right? And so I had put my two weeks in, and it's crazy 'cause the second that I did that, when I was done completely, I was better. I went back to the hospital, vital, all that great stuff, we're good.

   4. CJCalum Johnson22:05

      Mm.

   5. NSNicky Saunders22:06

      Right? And I'm like, "Okay. All right. I got it. Cool." But that, that did not come with, uh, I mean, an easy road. Like, that was a 30K cut that I took, right, from, from my job going, um, into, like, just different client work and things like that with E- with E. Um, and then of course, uh, I was married at the time, and that transition of everything that was happening, it actually caused a divorce.

   6. CJCalum Johnson22:36

      Mm.

   7. NSNicky Saunders22:36

      From going from stability to now entrepreneurship is like, "Yo, what, what's happening?" And yet I still felt the freest. I still felt that this is the place where I can be because the old place make me feel the restricted I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. 'Cause even though I may be good at something, I'm good at IT, I didn't, I, I felt like I was a, I had to do that.

   8. CJCalum Johnson23:07

      Mm.

   9. NSNicky Saunders23:07

      And once you get to a certain point, like, it's not, your happiness and the, the level of I want to do this is so much freeing. And I don't regret it at all of, of any of the process that I've done because it made me realize the importance of, like, true, how do I say this? Like, true freedom. And even with, like, how social media is now, how the narrative of success is where it's like you get time is freedom, but you have to make this amount of money to get all this time back and this, that, and the third. I'm looking at it now more of like, no, there's a different definition of freedom, and that's just walking into the room and not having to act. Not having to read it real quick and then be a certain kind of way. It's like you walk and you are just you, right? Um, and that's a different, that's a different feeling I never really, like, really broke down to, like, understand the process of it is, is needed to get to that. And it's not money, it's not the connections and everything like that. It's just that, like, yo, what place takes the weight off of the limitations? So it was, yeah. I, I don't know if I answered the question, but that's what popped in my head.

   10. CJCalum Johnson24:41

       No, that's really good. And it, it reminds me of this, um, there's this Jay-Z quote.

   11. NSNicky Saunders24:47

       Yeah.

   12. CJCalum Johnson24:48

       And he says, "The thing that I'm most grateful for, uh, not the money, not the success, it's that I walk into every room as Jay."

   13. NSNicky Saunders24:57

       Yeah.

   14. CJCalum Johnson24:58

       It's like ... And, and if you even think about Jay-Z, you don't even really put a profession or, like, an occupation to his name.

   15. NSNicky Saunders25:05

       Mm-hmm.

   16. CJCalum Johnson25:05

       It's like, he's not a rapper, he's not a business person. He's like all of the above. It's like Jay-Z is almost its own profession.

   17. NSNicky Saunders25:12

       Yeah.

   18. CJCalum Johnson25:12

       He's just himself.

   19. NSNicky Saunders25:13

       Yeah.

   20. CJCalum Johnson25:14

       Um, and it's interesting because I think the feeling that you described-

   21. NSNicky Saunders25:20

       Mm-hmm

   22. CJCalum Johnson25:20

       ... is so relatable.

   23. NSNicky Saunders25:22

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CJCalum Johnson25:23

       Which is some- you can just kinda tell sometimes when you're not in the right spot, when you're not doing the right thing.

   25. NSNicky Saunders25:31

       Yeah.

   26. CJCalum Johnson25:31

       And it's like there's no logical reason in your life yet-

   27. NSNicky Saunders25:37

       Yeah

   28. CJCalum Johnson25:37

       ... to make the switch.

   29. NSNicky Saunders25:40

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CJCalum Johnson25:41

       Like, the money doesn't, like, you can't really afford to do it.
5. 26:38 – 36:06

   How your 9-5 limits you.

   1. NSNicky Saunders26:38

      or just something that I wanna do and things like that. Um, when they would for- not force me. I don't wanna say force, but when they would make me do other things, it would ruin my whole day. Like, I, I, I have my, I have my thing. I do what you need me to do in the morning, and then in the afternoon, let me just create. And random calls that come up, I could do those, but, like, let me do what I do. Um, and that would kinda be the routine. The, the job was probably about, like, I'll say 30 minutes, 35 minutes away from the crib, um, on a good day. If there's traffic, you know, it's traffic. Uh, everybody was nice. It wasn't like ... I get a- I, I normally get along with everybody, so, uh, everybody was nice. But there was always this feeling of you, you know the top dogs, and y- I almost felt like I would never be able to pass the top dogs. And I don't like that feeling, right? I, there, there, I don't like being in a place where there's someone over me. Um, and not necessarily, like, I respect boss and the structures and things like that, but just, like, that level of, like, I will always know more than you. And it was never a good feeling, because you could see the favor, uh, people favored the person who was there the longest and has pretty much ran everything and things like that, where when growing up, I was treated as one, right? In the Navy, I would do everything that I could to be able to know everything so I could be respected as equal. I don't wanna be less than. I wanna be like we're all equals. And in that, in that spot, I never felt equal. You felt the, the structure. You felt you were down here. And I was like, "But I'm not," right? I'm extremely not there. But ... And I think that also triggers certain things. But going in all the time, saying hi to everybody, cracking jokes here and there, but then just in this desk, right? Granted they gave me a little window. Shout out to the window, right? Um, but really just, uh, being just confined to that, where before I was going to, like, 20 different countries.

   2. CJCalum Johnson29:11

      Mm.

   3. NSNicky Saunders29:11

      You know what I mean? [laughs] Like, I went to 20 different countries before I was, like, 25. Like, now I'm here. There's something, there's something really, really wrong. So yeah, I remember it vividly. It just was not the, not the greatest.

   4. CJCalum Johnson29:27

      Yeah. You know what, you know what's interesting? It's like, um, and I even just thought of it as you're even describing, like, saying hi to everyone-

   5. NSNicky Saunders29:35

      Mm-hmm

   6. CJCalum Johnson29:35

      ... cracking jokes-

   7. NSNicky Saunders29:36

      Yeah

   8. CJCalum Johnson29:36

      ... like, doing, just being in the routine of it, and it's like everything is good, but it's not.

   9. NSNicky Saunders29:42

      No.

   10. CJCalum Johnson29:43

       And I think I felt this myself when I was working, I've also seen it in other people, which is, like, you continue doing the thing-

   11. NSNicky Saunders29:51

       Mm-hmm

   12. CJCalum Johnson29:52

       ... even though in your mind you're like, "This is not it."

   13. NSNicky Saunders29:54

       Yeah.

   14. CJCalum Johnson29:55

       And you can just, years can go by in your life of just, like, coasting-

   15. NSNicky Saunders30:00

       Mm-hmm

   16. CJCalum Johnson30:00

       ... in this position-

   17. NSNicky Saunders30:02

       Mm-hmm

   18. CJCalum Johnson30:02

       ... until something snaps you out of it.

   19. NSNicky Saunders30:05

       Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, uh I think it's the conditioning of security and benefits and making sure that there's a, you know, uh, a paycheck that always comes in that makes you do these routine things that you don't necessarily wanna do.

   20. CJCalum Johnson30:22

       Mm.

   21. NSNicky Saunders30:22

       Right? Um, which was, which is why it's so important for me now to do things not because I have to, because of... And I think this is just a growing, like, just life process. You're going to be doing things that you don't want to do, but you, quote-unquote, "have to do" at the moment. Whether it is for the paycheck, whether it is to keep a certain type of relationship. Whatever it is, you're going to have to do it, but then there's a moment where you realize, "I don't have to do it anymore." Um, when you reali- and this is why the internet is so dope, when you realize that you can make money without necessarily being in front of a desk, in front of a computer all the time, that's when for me it's like, "I don't know what to... I don't have to do this." Like, this part of... And I remember, uh, when my mom was like, "Wait, you're quitting your job? So are you getting benefits? Are you... Like, what's the pay structure?" And things like that.

   22. CJCalum Johnson31:28

       Mm.

   23. NSNicky Saunders31:28

       And she wasn't, she wasn't with it at all, right? She was like, "How you go from not having to pay, like, for medical and dental at all to now going to the bank job and you still have your benefits and 401 [k] , all that great stuff, to now nothing?" No. My mom, my mom retired, everything like that. She did what w- what we were supposed to do, right? Um, I was the fi- I was the first one that, that went to college, like online, 'cause I can't, I'm an introvert, I'm not gonna go. Um, [laughs] but online, got my degree and everything like that. She's like, "Yo, you're supposed to do that typical thing." And I was like, "No, I th- I think this is gonna work." Now she's like the biggest fan. Now she's on my Lives.

   24. CJCalum Johnson32:22

       [laughs]

   25. NSNicky Saunders32:22

       "Yeah, this AI tool isn't good. This..." Like, she, she gets it. Um, but it's, it was hard in the beginning and because you're so accustomed to a certain kind of way, especially, you know, with different culture, diff- different generations, where you're supposed to do the 9-5. You're not always supposed to like it. This is not something where it said you're supposed to always like your job. You're winning if you like your job, but that's a, that's 1% of the world who really, really like their job according to what it was. Now we're in a generation where you get to choose what you wanna do, and if you are in a place that it is not, you're not happy in, that is your choice now. That is not a have to. That is not a this is what life is and suck it up, buttercup. It is, nah, you, you choose to be miserable. There's too many examples of where you don't have to be miserable. Go there. Feel how that is. It's gonna feel a little bit uncomfortable, but do that for a bit. Tell me how that feels. I promise you, people are gonna be like, "I never wanna do the other thing again. I promise you. I don't, I'm not doing a 9-5, never." A- and, but here, I have no problem with people who work a 9-5. I love people who work 9-5. I hate those entrepreneurs that like, "Get out of your 9-5." Why? No. Please, stay. Actually, you're, you're hiring the people who do the 9-5.

   26. CJCalum Johnson33:54

       Mm.

   27. NSNicky Saunders33:54

       Don't tell them to go entrepreneurship. So even in, in those instances for those people that are entrepreneurs that are like, "Yo, uh, get off your 9-5", no. How do you make people feel comfortable and seen and in a way that you never did so that they can work with you? That you can create an amazing environment of... 'Cause now that's my biggest thing, is like the people that are around me, how do I make sure they never feel, felt what I felt? They never felt not seen. They never felt that they weren't in place. They never felt sick to their stomach 'cause they have to do certain things. It's like, how do you, how do you change what we've known from generation to generation of what a job is or what you're supposed to be doing to like, "Nah, I love, I love it here. This is my thing."

   28. CJCalum Johnson34:42

       Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I remember a few months ago, um, we do an episode with this, uh, CEO coach.

   29. NSNicky Saunders34:48

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CJCalum Johnson34:49

       Uh, coaches a lot of successful seven, eight-figure entrepreneurs, and he's talking about his experience coaching these individuals who are extreme high achievers.
6. 36:06 – 45:11

   The first step to build a successful brand from scratch

   1. CJCalum Johnson36:07

      Nicky at that time- Leave that job and start working for Eric Thomas, where you're growing his following and managing his social media

   2. NSNicky Saunders36:16

      Yeah. Um, so be- before, like I said, before the hospital bed, I was always going to his events, right? Um, it started, like he had a Black Friday deal. I joined the online community. I was super active, and then whenever he would go to do his tour, I would go, right? I would volunteer. I would do whatever I can. Shout out that it was always in the weekend, so I could just hop on a plane or drive. Nine out of 10 times, I'm probably driving. Shout out to my Honda that has so many miles on it. But, um, I'm on it, cool, right? Then I get in the hospital. I make that transition of like, "Okay, we gotta make a, a decision." And I start, um ... At, at one of the events, they were like, "Yo, you wanna take over the social media?" Um, so I was like... A- and I was already doing kind of like little loose-end jobs, like, okay, create this promo, do this, do that. Like, I was just trying to f- figure... I treated it like the Navy, meaning when I got in the Navy, I came in undesignated, which anybody who doesn't know what that means, you don't have no job, right? So I'm already in the, I go to these events, I don't have no job. I'm just going to see where I kinda fit in. And then when the whole content thing started to really work out, they're like, "You wanna take over the social media?" I says, "Sure." Um, and I started growing that. While I was growing that, people were like, "Yo, how did you do that? Like, how did you create this? How did, how did this grow from 300 to 500? How did it grow from 500 to a million? How did..." Like, people started asking me more and more questions, and I was the behind-the-s- Like, I had no desire to really do social media. I think I started like everybody else. Like, we'll just put pictures of where we are, who we chilling with, this, that, and the third. And, um, when I realized that people started asking me questions, I was just like, "You know what? Let me just go live." Live is the only thing that I felt that I can do on a consistent basis 'cause it required no editing, right? Just turn it on, talk to the people, keep it moving. Um, so I did that, um, and I made a commitment of like between, uh, Monday through Fridays on Instagram, I would go live every single day. It was like around, it, it would vary. It'd be like from 8:00 PM to like 9:00 PM. Around those times I would go. And more and more people started to like show up, and s- I still, it, it's, the, it still allowed me to do what I needed to do from an, uh, you know, an ETA standpoint and make sure all the things were taken care of, but then I can concentrate on my brand at the end. Like, just talk to the people. It wasn't until probably the pandemic where everything started to, like, really blow up because they were like, "That girl that always talks about content and social media, where is she? Because I have nothing else to do and watch while I'm lo- on lockdown, and I need to grow my brand. Here we go." And so, like, things started to blow up then, but it, it really, it really just took people asking me, "Yo, how do you do this?" for me to feel comfortable getting on social media. And like anybody else, you start looking at, okay, who else is doing what you're doing? And you're trying to find, once again, and now I'm back into this whole identity crisis thing, trying to figure out my vibe with it, um, i- because social media is like, it can be very... Uh, it can be. It is very overwhelming if you don't come in, once again, knowing who you are, right? And so I knew what I wanted to talk about, but I didn't know what was working. And w- when I stopped caring about what was working and just, Nicky, just show up, it started working, right?

   3. CJCalum Johnson40:18

      Mm.

   4. NSNicky Saunders40:18

      'Cause now people are like, "Okay, let me take this tip. This works. Let me try this. Let me do this." Cool. Great. And that's how kind of it, it started with just like, let me just talk to the people. Let me figure out how to, I just show up as, as me and not necessarily care about the following, because that'll come. It's more of w- the intentions of, how do I feel comfortable as me, and what can I commit to on a regular basis that will allow me to still show up as me? So now I almost feel as if I have two lives. I have the E- the ETA life of making sure he's good and grows and what I've learned from that, then I take into my own stuff, and I just sh- show up as me and I grow as well.

   5. CJCalum Johnson41:10

      Mm.

   6. NSNicky Saunders41:10

      So it, it, it was a, it was a process, but it was, it was really dope.

   7. CJCalum Johnson41:14

      Yeah. No, I'm curious to get your perspective on this.

   8. NSNicky Saunders41:16

      Mm.

   9. CJCalum Johnson41:16

      And I think I know the answer. But was it more difficult to grow, uh, ET's following?

   10. NSNicky Saunders41:25

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CJCalum Johnson41:26

       Or was it more difficult when you were starting out trying to think through how to do your own content?

   12. NSNicky Saunders41:33

       I think it was difficult for me on my own stuff because you're, you're already given a brand with E who knows who he is.

   13. CJCalum Johnson41:43

       Mm-hmm.

   14. NSNicky Saunders41:43

       Right? I'm figuring out, where is my lay of the land on social media, right? He was already, "You're on Instagram, you're on Facebook, you're on YouTube. These are my lays of the land. We just gotta figure out what works." And what I always say that has worked with E is that I moved as a fan, not as an employee, not as a contractor, not as a, you know, somebody who's trying to get a check. I moved as a fan. And so I created stuff that I knew the fans wanted to see. When it comes to my brand, I wasn't a fan of me at first. I didn't know who I was on social media at first, so it's hard to grow something with the excitement of, um, like I said, I would do something, I would post it, and I would run away. Now, I watch my stuff 24/7. I'm like, "Yo, this is fire."

   15. CJCalum Johnson42:35

       [laughs]

   16. NSNicky Saunders42:36

       Like, I'll watch my stories over and over again 'cause now it, it got to a point where now I'm a fan of it. Now I, I could create something and I'm like, "Okay, this is gonna rock to somebody." And with, with E, it was more of I know there is somebody... And I would create when I see something like, yo, I'm struggling with this, I'm struggling with that, boom, boom. I would create based off what the comments were saying, right? A great, really great feedback. For, for me, I didn't have that necessarily feedback just yet. So it was I'm gonna create, and then when I see something, one person, I'm just going to pour into that one person. And I've, I've, I've maneuvered that kind of way of like create for one, because when I, when in the beginning trying to figure it out of like, okay, do I create for the masses, like you're, you're trying to grow a following, this, that. It's like you miss it. You never create for the masses. You can't possibly know everybody's problem. Like, there's no way I could possibly know what everybody does, what everybody, uh, has a trouble going to sleep with, their pain point. I can't possibly know that. So n- I started just like, okay, I'm just gonna create for one person, right? Um, and when I started doing that, then it started to work a lot easier because I'm saying only trigger words that is relying to, like that one person can relate to. That one person is then going to tell another person. Like, my lives used to have like four people on it, right? And then five people would come on, six people would come on, seven people would come on, because I'm just catering to those four people that were on there at first. And so it made it easier when I, when I started doing that, and then I became a fan of it, and then I was like, "Okay, I'm good."

   17. CJCalum Johnson44:34

       Mm.

   18. NSNicky Saunders44:35

       Earlier on it was just like, I could do E's all day, and this one, huh, okay, we'll figure, we'll figure it out when we figure it out. But I, the, but the, it was the commitment of at least at night I'ma work on my brand.

   19. CJCalum Johnson44:48

       Mm. You know what, I thought you were gonna say that, 'cause it, I think it's always easier to create for someone else.

   20. NSNicky Saunders44:53

       Yeah.

   21. CJCalum Johnson44:53

       And even people that aren't like social media managers or not managing like a huge talent social media platform.

   22. NSNicky Saunders45:00

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CJCalum Johnson45:00

       It's like you might even take your friend's phone and post on them for like their IG story. It's so easy to hit the little story thing-

   24. NSNicky Saunders45:08

       Yeah

   25. CJCalum Johnson45:08

       ... and publish it. But now all of a sudden when it's you,

7. 45:11 – 50:33

   Overthinking is KILLING you

   1. CJCalum Johnson45:11

      it's like, oh, what are people gonna think, or like-

   2. NSNicky Saunders45:13

      'Cause you don't see how dope you are.

   3. CJCalum Johnson45:15

      Yeah.

   4. NSNicky Saunders45:15

      That's the thing. I, and I'm, I'm always told that. Like, I don't, because I create for one, I don't really know the impact that I'm making, right? And so it's, I don't, even though I, I live in confidence now, I still, I'm a very low-key person. And I don't see what everybody else sees. I don't see like, "Yo, when you said this, when you did this, this changed." Like, I don't see none of that, and that's why it's easier to create for somebody, 'cause we see all of that. Like, I see how dope your podcast is in a viewpoint that you possibly don't necessarily see it, right?

   5. CJCalum Johnson45:59

      Mm-hmm.

   6. NSNicky Saunders46:00

      You may see things within my content and how my brand is that I would be like, "Really? I had no clue," right? Some of the things you share, I have no clue. Great. Because I just, that's just how I am and, and, and I've realized that with creators it's just more of like we, I wouldn't say necessarily doubt ourselves. We just don't see the dopeness.

   7. CJCalum Johnson46:21

      Mm.

   8. NSNicky Saunders46:22

      Um, regardless of what our accolades has been, what is, like, how do we walk in a room, things like that, I'm always going to be like super shocked when somebody says any... I'm always like, I'm amazed that people follow me. Like, I'll go, like, 'cause I live in Virginia, so when somebody recognize me over there, like, no, I feel like nobody lives in Virginia first off, okay?

   9. CJCalum Johnson46:48

      [laughs]

   10. NSNicky Saunders46:49

       And someone's like, "Yo, I love your stuff." How do you know, first off, how do you know? It was the weirdest thing when somebody, um, they, I was walking. I, I do my walks. I do like three, four miles every single day, right? Just keep clarity in my head. And somebody stopped. "I love your content." "Sir, please keep driving." [laughs]

   11. CJCalum Johnson47:11

       [laughs]

   12. NSNicky Saunders47:13

       This is, this is weird. But it, it's, going back to what you were saying, we see the greatness in other people, and it's hard for us to see the tr- the full greatness. Like, we know that, okay, we're dope, but we don't see the full greatness, so we can't necessarily create or move in that kind of way fully because there's still some things that we're just like, "Nah."

   13. CJCalum Johnson47:38

       Mm.

   14. NSNicky Saunders47:39

       "Nah." That, it's, it's not there yet. And maybe it's a matter of like I'm always striving for something more, but, and not necessarily looking back and being like, "Yo, you've done, you've done a lot. You know that?"

   15. CJCalum Johnson47:55

       Mm-hmm.

   16. NSNicky Saunders47:56

       A- and I had that, I had that kind of realization probably about like maybe like six months ago where I realized that my head was always down. And I looked up and I'm like, "Yo, you've kind of done a lot." Even, even this year I'm looking up. I'm like, "You kind of done a lot." And we don't do that often. It's just like go, go, and being a New Yorker is like I'm not, I'm not done. Like, I'm always onto the next one, I'm always onto the next one. And it, it's ... You have to look up and take a breath and be like, "No, you're kind of, you've kind of done a lot and you're kinda dope."

   17. CJCalum Johnson48:34

       Mm.

   18. NSNicky Saunders48:35

       But then it also goes also to the environment of who you, like who's around you. Um, as an introvert, I don't necessarily always have that many people that is saying, "Yo, look, look at this, look at that." Um, I'm like really, like I be in my house. I be with my dog. Um, I could turn on my, you know, my phone. I could go live at any moment, but then I turn it off.

   19. CJCalum Johnson48:58

       Mm.

   20. NSNicky Saunders48:58

       And so it's, it's, it's a different world when, and this is why community is so important to me. Because if I didn't necessarily have a community, I probably wouldn't really understand the impact that I have and would probably still create way better for other people than myself.

   21. CJCalum Johnson49:20

       Mm. I think, I think to your point, it's so good, is which is, um, we see all of our deficiencies.

   22. NSNicky Saunders49:26

       Yeah.

   23. CJCalum Johnson49:26

       And I think in the beginning phase, kind of at that zero to one, and I'm even thinking of a page, whether it's on Instagram, whether it's on Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok.

   24. NSNicky Saunders49:35

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CJCalum Johnson49:35

       Where it's like maybe you have one post.

   26. NSNicky Saunders49:38

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CJCalum Johnson49:39

       From like 2021.

   28. NSNicky Saunders49:40

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CJCalum Johnson49:41

       Or something. Um, and I think the difficulty in the beginning stage is I feel like naturally as humans when we put something out, we see everything that's wrong with it.

   30. NSNicky Saunders49:51

       Yeah.
8. 50:33 – 57:54

   The mindset to push through your dark phase.

   1. CJCalum Johnson50:33

      stage? 'Cause it's a journey to kind of finding who you are in social media. So how do you push through that initial stage where it's like you're not getting the validation from a large audience that what you're doing is correct.

   2. NSNicky Saunders50:45

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CJCalum Johnson50:45

      But then you're also fighting the internal battle of like, "No one cares what you have to say. You, your, your lighting's trash, your camera's not good enough."

   4. NSNicky Saunders50:55

      Yeah.

   5. CJCalum Johnson50:55

      "You don't know how to tell a story. Who, like, who are you? What does your opinion matter for?"

   6. NSNicky Saunders51:00

      Yeah.

   7. CJCalum Johnson51:00

      Like all of these internal thoughts, um, that are just telling you like, "Stop posting."

   8. NSNicky Saunders51:07

      Yeah.

   9. CJCalum Johnson51:08

      Like, "Don't post."

   10. NSNicky Saunders51:09

       Yeah. It's an o- for me, it was an online community, right? So like I started in an online community with Eric Thomas, and the people in there were all trying to figure it out. So no one necessarily had a big following, and was like, "Okay, I know the importance of social media. We gotta, we gotta do this," right? Um, so it was like connecting with those people who are also trying to do it, whether it was, for me, majority of my friends or the people I've connected with, I've never met in my life. Like, that like they're all in different states, and that, that whole nine. And I stopped searching for it to be so local, and I accepted it from being wherever I can get it from. And leaning on people of like, "Yo, did you post today? Did you do this? Did we do this?" Like, it, it's the people, it finding just like-minded people is so ... It, it sounds so cliche nowadays because of marketing and how they've used it, be around like-minded p- but it literally is you need to do that. Because if not, you're going to allow your mind to take over. You're going to allo- we're, we're, we're creatures of habit, right? So going into school, we were given a grade to say, "Hey, this works. You're doing good." When you get on social media, there is a grade, quote-unquote, the views and the likes and everything like that. In the beginning, you're going to do trash. You're always gonna do trash. It is the people who are around you that's saying, "Yo, you did one view, but you did five on this one. It's working." Right? Let's, let's look at the positive of things, and it's so hard with the culture that we have as far as the negative always gets highlighted, right? Or even in our minds of comparison. We, we are our worst critics and our worst enemy because we say what is success. There's nothing, and especially from a social media standpoint, there's nothing there that is written anywhere that's saying, "This is what s- social media success is supposed to look like. This is how many followers you're supposed to get, how many views, com..." There's nothing there. We just get on it, we look and admire people or brands or whatever. And then we go, "I have like 100 followers and you have like 100,000. I, I will never."

   11. CJCalum Johnson53:43

       Mm.

   12. NSNicky Saunders53:43

       "I am not that." So, but you're looking at a person's seven years to your day one. So it's important to find those other people who are day ones, or maybe day 15s or three months in.

   13. CJCalum Johnson54:00

       Mm-hmm.

   14. NSNicky Saunders54:01

       To be like, to help you because those people are out of reach. Those people won't talk to you about this is what you're doing right and wrong. It's the people who are figuring it out as well that are like, "Oh. Okay, so posting seven times, I don't need to do that? Okay, that's fine. I, I, I won't do it anymore. Great. Okay, this wasn't that bad. I ..." It, uh, MrBeast, and I love MrBeast for the, the simple fact of he said, "Your first 100 videos are going to suck." Right? And it's, it's not about the how many videos that you put out or how many times you show up on something. It's about what are you doing to get, like, 1% better. And it's not that the people are saying you suck. You say you suck, right? And so how do you make sure you stop saying that you suck? How ... What it ... What does it have to look like for you? So we were talking earlier, it was like, uh, the importance of lighting, right?

   15. CJCalum Johnson55:05

       Mm-hmm.

   16. NSNicky Saunders55:05

       Some- sometimes it's not a matter of how do you make the video per se of what you're recording good. It's how do you make it look better. So how do you put extra lighting? How do you improve your mic? How do you, uh, better speak on certain things? How are you getting 1% better? And that's more of a challenge for yourself than necessarily anybody going, "Tuh, you, y- your content's tra- ... " I swear people s- swear. Like, we go and be like, "Oh my God, this is trash. Do you see this? This is tra- everybody, this is tra- ... " No one does that. [laughs]

   17. CJCalum Johnson55:40

       Yeah.

   18. NSNicky Saunders55:40

       It's like we just keep scrolling. But we think, "Oh, no, they're saying something about me. I should delete it. I should do this." No, just post something tomorrow that's a little bit better because we forgot what you posted already. That simple.

   19. CJCalum Johnson55:55

       Mm. Yeah, it's interesting. It's called, um, what you just described, it's called the spotlight effect.

   20. NSNicky Saunders56:00

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CJCalum Johnson56:00

       Which is basically, like, we imagine that there's, like, a spotlight on our lives.

   22. NSNicky Saunders56:05

       Yeah.

   23. CJCalum Johnson56:06

       Uh, we think everything that we do is way more important than it is.

   24. NSNicky Saunders56:10

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CJCalum Johnson56:10

       You see this, like, even in public. Like, everyone's so cognizant of how is everyone else walking and, like, moving. And you don't wanna do anything that's out of place 'cause you don't wanna stand out.

   26. NSNicky Saunders56:20

       Yeah.

   27. CJCalum Johnson56:20

       And, like, in reality, even if you did something that stood out, people would pay attention for, like, one second-

   28. NSNicky Saunders56:26

       Yeah

   29. CJCalum Johnson56:26

       ... and then move on. Like, no one cares.

   30. NSNicky Saunders56:28

       Right.
9. 57:54 – 1:06:33

   What type of content should you start with?

   1. CJCalum Johnson57:54

      thing.

   2. NSNicky Saunders57:54

      Yeah. Yeah.

   3. CJCalum Johnson57:55

      What are the steps that someone gets to where they're like, "This is the way that I'm meant to post," and they can start to focus on that?

   4. NSNicky Saunders58:03

      So I, I, I don't want to fight what comes natural to me, right? So meaning I, I have this, like, little exercise where I go, okay, at 3:47 in the morning, if someone wakes you up, you're cold in your eye, like, and I say, "Yo, video, audio, uh, image, or written, what are you creating?" Start, like, super random somebody wakes you up, right? That's ... Whatever your answer is, that's what you create every single day. Not necessarily from a standpoint of, is this going to work or anything. The first thing you have to do is be consistent. And so when you are figuring out what comes natural to you, some is going to be video. Some people have no business being in front of video, right? In the beginning. Not saying that they can't ever. And so we ... A- and even now, like, I'm following a lot of people that are written first, then going into video, and some people are video first and going into written. I'm, uh, I'm noticing now that you start with your natural, you get better with that, and then you expand your, your audience. Because we start a- as a ... You know, some people are introverts. They may start as a written situation. And then as their brand grows, then they'll get into, they'll feel comfortable with the video side. But that may not be so consistent because that's not their natural.

   5. CJCalum Johnson59:33

      Mm.

   6. NSNicky Saunders59:33

      So they may do that once a week, break that down into several clips from vertical and all that other stuff that'll work on platforms, but their, their written is on a regular type basis. Those people who are extroverts, they may be very cool with being in front of the video and, and camera and things like that, right? Um, they may be able to do that a little bit more, hence why we'll see vlogs, hence why we'll see behind the scenes situations a little bit, right? And then they'll expand to other things. It goes always to, how do I feel comfortable being in my natural self? How do I get that 1% better each time? And where am I getting my inspirations from in order to expand on that 1%? It, it's never about copying. I, I love what- I love what, uh, Swizz Beatz did, right? Swizz Beatz, the hip hop producer. He goes, "When I was first starting figuring out how to be a producer, I copied everybody." Right? "I had to get the foundation right. So I looked at all, all these other producers, and I would get their, their sound right, and then I would add just one thing. I would add another thing. I would a- and then th- that's where my sound came from, by having the foundation of these greats, but adding my swag to it." So once you understand what your natural is, it is okay to look at other people and build that foundation. Like, what ... Okay, they do captions. Let me get captions on it. They have, uh, a lighting at a certain kind of angle. Let me get the lighting. Let me get this particular mic and things like that. Because it's not necessarily the equipment or anything that makes you look the same, is what you ... Like, it's exa- it's what you're saying and what you're doing inside of this content that makes you actually stand out.

   7. CJCalum Johnson1:01:29

      Mm.

   8. NSNicky Saunders1:01:29

      Right? And so when we build that foundation of, here are my f- top five people that I see that I admire on social media, um, and I always go, like, maybe probably, like, two, two or three that's inside of your niche, but then what is that, like, two, one or two people that are outside, right? Because the outside is what's going to make you stand out. So I would, let's say, follow sports and what they're doing with content, and possibly bring it into talking about AI or social media, because people like what they're doing over there, but it's never seen in your own niche. So I can stand out in that kind of sense. The gr- the ... A really good book that I read is, like, Steal Like an Artist.

   9. CJCalum Johnson1:02:18

      Mm.

   10. NSNicky Saunders1:02:18

       Such a good book, because it, it takes away the pressure of, like, forever innovating. Like, th- they said something in that book that is like, "An idea, there's no original ideas. You just don't know the source of it", right? And so even, like, where we are right now, there are ... This looks fire, but there was inspiration taken from other places that they put their own swag to it that you don't even know who the original art- You just think it's them, right?

   11. CJCalum Johnson1:02:50

       Mm.

   12. NSNicky Saunders1:02:50

       So the importance of getting those, those online mentors, breaking down why you like them and everything like that, build that foundation, and then move off of your natural is, like, is so crucial in the beginning part.

   13. CJCalum Johnson1:03:07

       Yeah. No, that's really good. I like, um, I like what you said about start with your natural.

   14. NSNicky Saunders1:03:11

       Yeah.

   15. CJCalum Johnson1:03:12

       And the reason I like it is, uh, people even ask me about podcasting. Like, I'm, I'm getting that more often now, like, people that want to start podcasting and stuff.

   16. NSNicky Saunders1:03:20

       I can imagine. [laughs]

   17. CJCalum Johnson1:03:21

       Um, and I started to realize from, just from my experiences, it's actually the wrong question. Like, people will be like, "Oh, should I do a podcast? Should I get into podcasting?"

   18. NSNicky Saunders1:03:32

       Hey.

   19. CJCalum Johnson1:03:32

       And it's like, I think it's almost as if people want the hack. So they wanna know-

   20. NSNicky Saunders1:03:36

       Yeah

   21. CJCalum Johnson1:03:37

       ... like, "Should I, should I be on ... " And you, you'll hear conversation like this, like, "Oh, people are going viral on TikTok right now."

   22. NSNicky Saunders1:03:44

       And I do

   23. CJCalum Johnson1:03:44

       "People are going viral on-

   24. NSNicky Saunders1:03:45

       Yeah

   25. CJCalum Johnson1:03:45

       ... LinkedIn or Instagram or whatever." There's, like, this new trend that's like, "You can easily get the result you want-

   26. NSNicky Saunders1:03:51

       Yeah

   27. CJCalum Johnson1:03:51

       ... if you just do this."

   28. NSNicky Saunders1:03:52

       Yeah.

   29. CJCalum Johnson1:03:53

       And it's, like, the wrong question, because if you don't like speaking to a camera or speaking into a microphone, but other people are going viral, that doesn't mean that you should do that thing. Like, you need to start with what, what is the natural way that you communicate-

   30. NSNicky Saunders1:04:11

       Mm-hmm
10. 1:06:33 – 1:11:38

    How to sync your content with the platform.

    1. NSNicky Saunders1:06:33

       The I, I, I go with this like, this play system. Like, the platform and leverage audience in you. So meaning, with the platform, if you see what they're putting energy towards, so if we're talking about Instagram with Reels, when that first started popping up, everybody who put energy towards Reels because they saw Instagram was putting energy towards Reels went, right? And it's like, "Oh, you, you listen to me," right? That, once again, treating the platform like a human. "Oh, you listen to me. You see what I put on today."

    2. CJCalum Johnson1:07:07

       Mm.

    3. NSNicky Saunders1:07:08

       "I, I'ma pay more attention to you," right? So looking at the platform, seeing and leveraging the, the features that it has, okay, that's what I'm gonna be doing. Then once I start getting some, some people in m- you know, and following me and everything like that, now I gotta see what the audience wants, right? So now I'm gonna create based off, you know, maybe what they like the most. Even if you have, like I only have 20 likes or 20 views, but my normal, my average is about like 10. I'ma see what the 20 is and I'm gonna just do that again because my audience likes that, right? And so now I'm catering to what the audience wants so they can stay with me, and plus they're my marketing team without paying for them. So if I can continue to create for them, um, they're going to share my stuff. So the platform is going to love on me because I'm paying attention to what they're wearing, like I said, the features that they have, and they're gonna push me out to the masses. My audience is gonna push me out to their audience because they rock with me.

    4. CJCalum Johnson1:08:16

       Mm.

    5. NSNicky Saunders1:08:16

       But then I'm also going to be the, the why part is you. I'm also gonna be creating for me. Because I cannot necessarily only serve the platform and, and the audience and not serve myself. Like, I still need to show, uh, a bit of me or I need to experiment in some way, shape, or form, right? So this is, this is kind of like the cycle that I go through when I'm like, "Okay, now I gotta, now I gotta grow." Like I, I figured out my natural, but now I gotta grow. I gotta play with the, with the platform. Literally. I gotta figure out what platform that I wanna be on. I got to leverage the features. I gotta rock with my audience. And then I gotta create for myself. And once I, once I figured that kind of out, then the numbers started to come in.

    6. CJCalum Johnson1:09:05

       Mm.

    7. NSNicky Saunders1:09:05

       Um, because it's just a cycle now. It's I'm doing maybe some of the trends, and the trends doesn't mean like I'm out here dancing. You know what I mean? It doesn't mean I'm out here doing skits and everything like that. It means I'm paying attention what the culture wants, right? What people are talking about. And I'm putting my own spin to it in my own niche, right? So a, a, a great example I, I used was, um, when, uh, they had this, this clip of Hulk grabbing a villain and smashing him back and forth, right?

    8. CJCalum Johnson1:09:40

       Yeah, from Avengers. Yeah.

    9. NSNicky Saunders1:09:41

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I said that was Instagram, and the, the villain was my content.

    10. CJCalum Johnson1:09:48

        Mm-hmm.

    11. NSNicky Saunders1:09:48

        Right? Going back and forth, boom, boom, boom. Everybody related. They're like, "Yo, that's so true." That, but that hits kind of a trending situation. If that clip is going crazy but I change it into my niche, my p- the platform is saying, "Hey, you pay attention to trends. Hey, you use trending audios and things like that. I'ma, I'ma push you out more," right? And then I'm look, then I have that and then I'm looking at my insights and I'm looking at what my audience wants, and it's just like a cycle of, of, of that standpoint and not being ... I don't get too caught up necessarily with the numbers, but I do understand that is what shows me that I'm on the right track.

    12. CJCalum Johnson1:10:29

        Mm. I like it, and it makes sense why earlier you referred to it as like the start with the natural-

    13. NSNicky Saunders1:10:36

        Mm-hmm

    14. CJCalum Johnson1:10:36

        ... is the foundation.

    15. NSNicky Saunders1:10:37

        Yeah.

    16. CJCalum Johnson1:10:38

        Because you have to figure out what do you like to create.

    17. NSNicky Saunders1:10:41

        Mm-hmm.

    18. CJCalum Johnson1:10:42

        What's the way that you uniquely communicate and enjoy communicating?

    19. NSNicky Saunders1:10:45

        Yeah.

    20. CJCalum Johnson1:10:46

        And if you can get that foundation right, it means that you'll be consistent.

    21. NSNicky Saunders1:10:50

        Yeah.

    22. CJCalum Johnson1:10:50

        And, or as a result of that, the audience will be like, "Okay, this person is for real."

    23. NSNicky Saunders1:10:55

        Mm-hmm.

    24. CJCalum Johnson1:10:55

        "They're not the person that posted on Monday, disappeared for two months-

    25. NSNicky Saunders1:11:00

        Yeah

    26. CJCalum Johnson1:11:00

        ... came back again-

    27. NSNicky Saunders1:11:01

        Yeah

    28. CJCalum Johnson1:11:01

        ... and like wants me to take them seriously."

    29. NSNicky Saunders1:11:03

        Yeah.

    30. CJCalum Johnson1:11:03

        "They're the person that post day in, day out, the time that they told us they were gonna post. They're for real."
11. 1:11:38 – 1:16:50

    The fastest way to grow from 10k-100k followers

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:11:38

       You know what? Let's say that that, following that process-

    2. NSNicky Saunders1:11:41

       Yeah

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:11:42

       ... and I'll just pick an arbitrary number. Let's say it gets me to 10,000 followers.

    4. NSNicky Saunders1:11:46

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:11:47

       At what point ... What does it take for me to go from the 10,000-

    6. NSNicky Saunders1:11:53

       Mm-hmm

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:11:53

       ... to a like 100,000? Like when we're really getting up there in the numbers-

    8. NSNicky Saunders1:11:58

       Yeah

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:11:58

       ... and it's like this is actually a brand.

    10. NSNicky Saunders1:12:02

        Yeah.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:12:02

        Like this is a force now.

    12. NSNicky Saunders1:12:04

        Yeah. I think c- I think collaborations don't get talked a- about enough, because that's, that's exactly what helped me get from like that 10k to 100k, right? Um, because you could do everything on s- in inside of the platform, and that's not to say that you, you won't reach those numbers. But the power of collaboration that, um, it's almost like a, a digital cosign of, "Oh, snap. This person's serious." And we don't know who's in their audience that is like Oh, well then let me, let me work with them too, and then let me work with them too. It, it takes you to, to whole new heights where you, when you jump on other people's podcasts, when you jump on people's lives, when you do different types of content with them, that expands you to audiences that expands over the 100K, right? And what I also wanna emphasize is that even though we do strive for these numbers, we look at... I- what's so crazy about, like, even my journey is that when I was having, like, the low, not necessarily low numbers, but as I was growing, the amount of people that was following wasn't the big deal. It was the quality of people that were following me. Like, the amount of, now you can buy verified, but the amount of verified people that were following me, I was like, "I don't need 100K at this moment. I got so-and-so doing this. I got these people f- like, people I looked up to following." And even when some people that weren't following, they were in my DMs like, "I watch your stuff all the time."

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:13:54

        Mm.

    14. NSNicky Saunders1:13:55

        Right? And I'm like, "No, but you, you were in the movies, sir. Like-

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:14:01

        [laughs]

    16. NSNicky Saunders1:14:02

        ... you have no business following my stuff. You just produced this amazing situation. Like, what are you talking about," right? But, but that's the, that's also with the power of collaboration because, because I was starting to jump on other people's podcasts and, um, do different people's lives and everything like that, because as an introvert, I'm, I'm really to myself, right? I just wanna talk to y'all. That's it. That's all I wanna do. But when I started working with, with, with other people then to get to that point, um, the, the quality of followers came through. And it was like, yo, that's so dope. That's, that means so much more than anything. And though we look at numbers, I, I always say we look at your following. You probably have two to three x more followers than you know because of the people who are watching you who don't hit that follow, but they're watching you, right? Um, but when we get back to the, the conversation of, like, to, to that 100K, between collaborations, between now getting into, let's say, um, more of you, you have to do more of the platform work at that moment to grow because you, you're now saying, "Hey, platform, show me to more people," right?

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:15:23

        Mm-hmm.

    18. NSNicky Saunders1:15:23

        Show me to more people. You're gonna have to do the up it a little bit more, meaning, so if you were playing the platform game just once a week, you may have to do it twice. So this is why when we're, like, YouTube, with YouTube Shorts, some people are like, "Yo, I want more subscribers." Then you have to gonna put out more Shorts, right? Because that's where the energy is at this moment, and they bring in a whole new crowd of people. You're gonna have to go from maybe once a week of doing Shorts to maybe four or five times a week.

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:15:59

        Mm.

    20. NSNicky Saunders1:15:59

        Instagram, you may have to do four or five times more of the Reels that you were doing, right? Um, it's upping everything that you did. It's not staying at that, um, that once a week, that twice a week situation. It's always about, how do I increase it a little bit more to up my chances a, a little bit?

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:16:20

        Mm-hmm.

    22. NSNicky Saunders1:16:20

        Right? So I, I would say those, between those two, upping your, your platform game and collaborations.

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:16:26

        Yeah. Okay, no, that's good stuff. You know what I'm, um... There's all, like, these gurus on, on social media, right?

    24. NSNicky Saunders1:16:33

        Met a few. [laughs]

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:16:33

        And you see, um, or even, like, celebrities who have these huge followings.

    26. NSNicky Saunders1:16:39

        Mm-hmm.

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:16:39

        And these are the th- when you talk about, um, even, like, Steel Like an Artist or these people that you look up to and you're like, "Oh, I'd love to have my page looking like this-

    28. NSNicky Saunders1:16:48

        Yeah

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:16:48

        ... and this many followers,"

12. 1:16:50 – 1:27:57

    Which platform should you choose?

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:16:50

       and all this stuff, um, you'll look at celebrities, you'll look at these gurus, you'll look at, like, uh, Alex Hormozi-

    2. NSNicky Saunders1:16:56

       Yeah

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:16:56

       ... what he's been able to do, or Gary Vaynerchuk or a s- favorite celebrity, and not only are they dominating on, let's say, Instagram, they're also on LinkedIn.

    4. NSNicky Saunders1:17:08

       Yes.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:17:08

       They've also got a YouTube channel that's-

    6. NSNicky Saunders1:17:10

       Yes

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:17:10

       ... popping. They've got, the TikTok is going off-

    8. NSNicky Saunders1:17:13

       Mm-hmm

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:17:13

       ... like it's clear.

    10. NSNicky Saunders1:17:14

        Crazy. Yes.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:17:15

        Um, maybe even there's, like, some new social media platform that they're expe- experimenting with and starting to dominate.

    12. NSNicky Saunders1:17:21

        Yeah.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:17:22

        And even, like, when Threads came out-

    14. NSNicky Saunders1:17:23

        Mm-hmm

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:17:23

        ... I'm, like, seeing these guys, they're now on Threads too. Like-

    16. NSNicky Saunders1:17:26

        Yeah

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:17:27

        ... um, what is kind of your perspective? 'Cause I think it's just overwhelming for people.

    18. NSNicky Saunders1:17:31

        It is.

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:17:32

        And it's like this feeling of, okay, in order to build this brand and community and really be showing up for people, do I need to be on every single one of these platforms?

    20. NSNicky Saunders1:17:45

        Mm-hmm.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:17:46

        What is kind of your perspective of, first of all, do you need to be on all of them? And even when maybe things are starting to work on one platform, when is the right time to be like, "Okay, I'm dominating Instagram. I'm now gonna do YouTube or-

    22. NSNicky Saunders1:18:01

        Mm-hmm

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:18:01

        ... something else"?

    24. NSNicky Saunders1:18:02

        So the, shout-out to all those people that are saying to be omnipresent, right? Um, and create all these different things. I was, uh, I was watching, uh, Dave Ramsey, and though I may not agree with his financial information or anything, the one thing that he said was like, "Yo, I'm a content creator. Like, I'm on everything," right? But we have to break down those people who say be on everything, who's backing them? So when you look at a, a Gary Vee, he has, like, 10, 15 people on his team. Alex Hormozi spends 10 to 15K a month- And probably more now

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:18:44

        I think way more actually

    26. NSNicky Saunders1:18:44

        Yeah, probably more now

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:18:46

        Like a week

    28. NSNicky Saunders1:18:46

        Yeah. Uh, to be able to do this, right? Um, we look at those people who are everywhere, and you have to realize they have teams. If you are just starting out, you are probably a team of one or a VA, right? You concentrate on one. Because w- to be honest with you, the, the influencers that come from social media, we're not going, "Oh, that's so-and-so from social media." We're going, "That's so-and-so from TikTok. That's Khaby from TikTok. That's MrBeast from YouTube."

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:19:21

        Mm.

    30. NSNicky Saunders1:19:21

        Right? Now, do we see them everywhere? Yes. But do we associate them with where they started and what they dominated? Yeah.
13. 1:27:57 – 1:33:27

    How to make money with just 100 followers.

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:27:58

       there's a lot of people that have followers, maybe they even get views.

    2. NSNicky Saunders1:28:01

       Yeah.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:28:02

       Um, but they're not making any money from it.

    4. NSNicky Saunders1:28:06

       Right.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:28:07

       And so even in the conversation, because when we, when we talk about leaving your job-

    6. NSNicky Saunders1:28:13

       Mm-hmm

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:28:13

       ... and being able to build a life-

    8. NSNicky Saunders1:28:15

       Mm-hmm

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:28:15

       ... being yourself.

    10. NSNicky Saunders1:28:16

        Mm-hmm.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:28:17

        A very important part of that is not just the audience, but it's also like, okay, how am I making money from this?

    12. NSNicky Saunders1:28:21

        Mm-hmm.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:28:21

        How do I make an income, a living from this?

    14. NSNicky Saunders1:28:23

        Yeah.

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:28:24

        And so to begin, at what point, like is, is the monetization piece something I should even be focusing on in the beginning? At what point does like how do I make money from this, what point does that even enter my psyche, enter my mind?

    16. NSNicky Saunders1:28:42

        So to be honest, I think that is something that you should be doing from the beginning. Not necessarily let's say leading only with money, right? Because if y- what people tend to do is the extremists. It's like, "I'm only here for the followers and the fame, and I think eventually that leads to money." So there's not really a structure or a strategy to get the m- to the money, and then they realize there's like millions of followers and I didn't make nothing, right? Or you lead with money and you actually have a complete disconnect with followers and you look like you're only here for you.

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:29:24

        Mm.

    18. NSNicky Saunders1:29:24

        Right? There's two extremists. I think there has to be a meeting of the middle where I'm trying to grow a brand. Well, I'm growing a brand, but I have to be thinking that money has to come in somehow some way. Now am I gonna think that I'm gonna be making millions off top? Absolutely not. But I will be happy that if I post something and I get a few coins from it, something's working, right? And we have to also understand that especially when it comes to followers, there are people who are going to be ready to swipe their card out the gate because you said some- that was a trigger word that they've been searching for on the whole web. And they're like, "Yo, I love who you are, what you represent, and you have the solution. Here you go. Please just take my money." And then there's some people that are gonna be like, "Yo, I met you, but we have to go on a couple of more dates." You know what I mean? Like, I have to n- I have to get to know you a little bit more and then, then I'll pay for it, right?

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:30:27

        Mm.

    20. NSNicky Saunders1:30:28

        And so if we understand that cycle, we have to understand that we should always have monetization up at any point because I don't know if you're gonna like me on the first day or the hundredth and second day. So whether it is from a standpoint of affiliate marketing, whether it is a standpoint of a private community, whether it's a standpoint of merch, however you ... I think it goes more of- Whatever feels comfortable to you.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:30:58

        Mm.

    22. NSNicky Saunders1:30:58

        Um, I will, I will always suggest affiliate marketing s- first and foremost. Why? Because that's not necessarily sh- especially for those people who may be, like, self-conscious or, like, "I don't wanna ask. I don't wanna seem like that marketer. I don't wanna seem like, yo, buy me, buy this, buy this," right? But I can have a hat, let's say, um, and I worked with, like, I got the affiliate link for this hat, and I'm just doing my content. And some people are like, "Yo, I love the hat." Bet. Just go to the link in the bio. It's there.

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:31:33

        Mm.

    24. NSNicky Saunders1:31:33

        Right? Because of who I am, people may really rock with it. I love those, uh, Amazon finds. Like, if you go and you bought a whole bunch of things on Amazon, you show what it is. Some people were like, "Yo, let me get that link." Got you. On my Amazon store. And you get a percentage i- uh, of what people are buying. So you're not going, "Here, buy it." It's like you get a percentage of everything that goes on. Um, of course, with, like, merch, eventually people are gonna wanna rock with you, right? Wear something. That you could have that store up. You could use Printful off top. Just give them the design. You don't have to hold no inventory. You don't have to do anything. It's up. People buy it. There you go. Right? Um, then you have, like, crowd support. Like, for instance, when you go on Instagram, you got, uh, badges and gifts. You got, um, you know, Super Chat and Super Thanks on YouTube. These, these are things that if the person really rocks with you, that's like tipping the creator.

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:32:41

        Mm.

    26. NSNicky Saunders1:32:41

        Right? These are all little small things. I'm not sitting here, go, "Okay, get the brand deals off top" which you can with, like, 1,000 followers because you have 1,000 dedicated followers based off your niche. But the, the small things that you can do to at least get some coins up just to see, like, is people, like, they really rocking with you, I think that's very possible in, like, follower 100.

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:33:08

        Mm. You know what? 'Cause I- I think what you're saying makes so much sense, and I was just thinking what stops people from doing that? And the thing that came into my mind is that something you mentioned, actually. The fear of the ask.

    28. NSNicky Saunders1:33:21

        Mm-hmm.

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:33:21

        I remember even had this, um, as a creator. When you start, you first start, I don't know, maybe it's like a brand

14. 1:33:27 – 1:38:05

    How to integrate products with your content.

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:33:27

       sponsorship-

    2. NSNicky Saunders1:33:27

       Yeah

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:33:27

       ... or whatever. It's like you built this following and got this traction from just showing up on camera or whatever it is, being yourself-

    4. NSNicky Saunders1:33:37

       Yeah

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:33:37

       ... and you got to a point of being good enough at doing the thing that people gave a shit and they started tuning in.

    6. NSNicky Saunders1:33:44

       Yeah.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:33:45

       And then it's like, okay, now I'm, like, gonna try and sell them something. Even if you feel like it's good-

    8. NSNicky Saunders1:33:52

       Yeah

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:33:53

       ... it feels ... There's like this feeling as a creator that it just makes you uncomfortable.

    10. NSNicky Saunders1:33:58

        Uh, yes. Yes.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:33:59

        And so how, how does one start to reconcile that? Is it, is it, like, purely a mental thing? Like, what has helped you, I guess, in the ... 'Cause you're someone who's very authentic.

    12. NSNicky Saunders1:34:11

        Mm.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:34:11

        You're very yourself. And I think sometimes when you're like that, it can be difficult to be like, "Yeah, buy the hat" and it's like-

    14. NSNicky Saunders1:34:17

        Yeah

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:34:17

        ... "Over here."

    16. NSNicky Saunders1:34:18

        So it's, it's, it's selling things that you feel comfortable with, the first and foremost, right? Um, I noticed in my journey that I wasn't necessarily comfortable selling courses. It's not my thing, right? Like, that wasn't ever like, "I got this course." I switched it to I have this community 'cause, uh, if, uh, it's what you value. I value community huge. So I want you a part of the community, but the way that I want you part of the community, I gotta lead with serving first. So I need to give you value, and if you get any type of value from it and you wanna continue in this journey, here, I got a community, you know? Um, if, uh, like, for, for instance, I got ... Uh, because I wear hats all the time, I'ma have a hat that has a lion on it 'cause that's my thing, lions behavior. I'ma give a meaning to the hat, and it's not that you buy the hat. You are a part of a community, right? And the hat represents that you are part of that and that you represent this particular movement.

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:35:24

        Mm.

    18. NSNicky Saunders1:35:25

        It's never ... I never look at ... And, and some people can move with the I have a goal with the money and I'm going to sell however you wanna go about it, and I have done it all. I've done the, the, the cohorts, the masterminds, the, the, this and that, the webinars. I've done them all, right? I've now gotten to a point where, once again, I don't have to. I feel comfortable, and I go based off my values. I sell what is valuable to me 'cause I know I would buy it, right? And in the, in the beginning of your creator journey, you're going to like, "Okay, let me do the merch. Let me do this. Let me do that," and, and you have to. So I'm not even gonna say don't do that because you're gonna have to figure out what works for you. For me, it's going to be the, the small masterminds 'cause I'm an introvert, so we're gonna do the small one. Big events, I don't know yet. We'll work on that. I don't know, right?

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:36:18

        Mm.

    20. NSNicky Saunders1:36:18

        Um, but the, the, the small events, I can do that, right? But I do that even on a, on a, like, a more private scale, meaning that's inside of the community. So I'll get you inside of the community, but then I'll tell you about the bigger price point stuff inside of the community. I'm not going to be on social media like, "Hey, I got this 10,000, $20,000 program." I can't do it.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:36:41

        Mm.

    22. NSNicky Saunders1:36:41

        It's not me. So you have to figure out what you feel comfortable. It always goes back to that, what feels natural to you on what you can sell. And it's normally what are the things that you would buy and what are the things that you find valuable, right? If you are super proud of your fit, you're gonna be like I bought this over here. You could buy it over here, right?

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:37:00

        Mm-hmm.

    24. NSNicky Saunders1:37:00

        'Cause you f- th- this is what you're proud of. This is what you think. But we get in that whole rabbit hole of, I need to make ... If these are the creators and this is what they've done, right, I have to do the same thing and I have to sell it the same way that ... I have, like, I have no business gonna sell chocolate like MrBeast.

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:37:19

        Mm.

    26. NSNicky Saunders1:37:20

        But what I f- what we can learn from how MrBeast sells is that he product places in his own videos. He m- he integrates it with everything that he does. So when we get to the point of selling, how can we integrate it with all the stuff that we were already doing anyways? We don't have to necessarily, "Hey, this is a mic. This is a short mic, and this is what it all does" That's an infomercial. That's not what we do. You have to ha- figure out how to integrate it with everything that you've done. And so that's where creators kind of get caught up in, because they think they have to do something extra to sell, and people are already following you for what you do. So just integrate it in what you do, and it sells

15. 1:38:05 – 1:49:25

    How to choose what product to sell.

    1. NSNicky Saunders1:38:05

       on its own.

    2. CJCalum Johnson1:38:06

       Mm. You know, one of the, one of the lessons I'm getting just from listening to you is, and it was exactly the same on the content side as it is on the, with the monetization piece, which is there's this process where you start looking inwards.

    3. NSNicky Saunders1:38:20

       Yeah.

    4. CJCalum Johnson1:38:21

       You start inwards.

    5. NSNicky Saunders1:38:22

       Yeah.

    6. CJCalum Johnson1:38:22

       And I think most people do the opposite, right? So, like, I, I even wrote down in my notes six ways that creators can monetize.

    7. NSNicky Saunders1:38:30

       Yeah.

    8. CJCalum Johnson1:38:31

       And I'll, and I'll go through them. So you have the online course-

    9. NSNicky Saunders1:38:33

       Yep

    10. CJCalum Johnson1:38:33

        ... which you mentioned. You have the online membership-

    11. NSNicky Saunders1:38:36

        Mm-hmm

    12. CJCalum Johnson1:38:36

        ... which I guess is like a community. You have affiliate marketing.

    13. NSNicky Saunders1:38:39

        Yep.

    14. CJCalum Johnson1:38:39

        You have a done-for-you agency, like, service offer.

    15. NSNicky Saunders1:38:42

        Yeah.

    16. CJCalum Johnson1:38:43

        You have consulting-

    17. NSNicky Saunders1:38:44

        Mm-hmm

    18. CJCalum Johnson1:38:44

        ... either in a group setting or, like, one-to-one-

    19. NSNicky Saunders1:38:47

        Yeah

    20. CJCalum Johnson1:38:47

        ... coaching consulting. And then six, you have a digital product.

    21. NSNicky Saunders1:38:50

        Yeah.

    22. CJCalum Johnson1:38:51

        And most people will be like, "Okay, which one is this creator doing? Which one makes the most money?" It's like this outward-looking journey.

    23. NSNicky Saunders1:38:59

        Mm-hmm.

    24. CJCalum Johnson1:39:00

        And it's the same with the content creation piece-

    25. NSNicky Saunders1:39:02

        Yeah

    26. CJCalum Johnson1:39:02

        ... when I mentioned people wanna know what platform is going viral, which one has easy reach or-

    27. NSNicky Saunders1:39:07

        Yeah

    28. CJCalum Johnson1:39:08

        ... um, tons of organic reach.

    29. NSNicky Saunders1:39:10

        Yeah.

    30. CJCalum Johnson1:39:11

        Um, your process is to start inward.
16. 1:49:25 – 1:54:09

    How to know your WHY

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:49:25

       Mm-hmm. You know, it's, um, one of the people that I really look to, and you know when you s- you talk about kind of having these people in your mind-

    2. NSNicky Saunders1:49:32

       Yeah

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:49:32

       ... that's like, "I just love and admire what they did," for me Oprah is one of those people.

    4. NSNicky Saunders1:49:38

       Yes.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:49:39

       And she says, uh, she was describing what she does.

    6. NSNicky Saunders1:49:42

       Mm-hmm.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:49:43

       And that's something that I'm always trying to figure out, 'cause people always ask me that about the podcast.

    8. NSNicky Saunders1:49:46

       Mm-hmm.

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:49:47

       And it's like, a lot of the times we tell people the what.

    10. NSNicky Saunders1:49:50

        Yeah.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:49:50

        So like, "Oh, I interview entrepreneurs," or this sort of thing. No one cares about that.

    12. NSNicky Saunders1:49:54

        Mm-mm.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:49:54

        It's like the, the why, like what is the reason behind it? And the way that she describes it, she says, um, "I share stories so that people can see themselves in others."

    14. NSNicky Saunders1:50:07

        Yes.

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:50:08

        So she does these interviews, and people hear these stories-

    16. NSNicky Saunders1:50:11

        Yeah

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:50:11

        ... and the story is so relatable-

    18. NSNicky Saunders1:50:13

        Mm-hmm

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:50:14

        ... that someone can watch and be like, "That's me."

    20. NSNicky Saunders1:50:18

        Yeah. Yeah.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:50:18

        Like that, that's, I'm seeing myself-

    22. NSNicky Saunders1:50:20

        Yeah

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:50:21

        ... in that. And it's so powerful, and it goes back to, um, the thing that you mentioned, uh, right in the beginning when we started talking about content, which is why you have to start with the natural.

    24. NSNicky Saunders1:50:34

        Yes.

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:50:34

        Because it needs to feel real.

    26. NSNicky Saunders1:50:36

        Oh, man. It, it's funny that you mention Oprah, because then I, I thought of two other people that like, it screams that. Uh, Wallo and Wall Street Trapper, right?

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:50:47

        Mm-hmm.

    28. NSNicky Saunders1:50:48

        Um, two individuals that were locked up, right, and came out and has a huge following for just them being them, and the, uh, the creator journey that they've gone through, right? Um, but their purpose of like why I'm doing it. Like Wallo is like, "Yo, I came from Philly. I made the wrong decision. I was locked up for like 20 years, and now I have one of the biggest podcast deals out right now, um, just being who I am. And I don't want y'all to make that s- same decision in the beginning that I did, but I'ma show you what, uh, what hard work and consistency does." This man put up his phone, and whether it was rain, sleet, snow, or hail, was doing a motivational video every single day, right? Got with, with, with his cousin, did a podcast just being them, and now it's blowing up. Trap, Trap made some bad decisions, learned the stock market when he was in, in jail, and now he communicates to people who look like us on how to get into the stock market, right?

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:52:02

        Mm-hmm.

    30. NSNicky Saunders1:52:02

        He's not s- code switching and trying to talk to the, everybody in CNBC and all that stuff. He's like, "My purpose is to make sure that we are financially great." And so the, his creator journey is like, "I'ma show you when I got out my 9 to 5 stuff, but then I'ma show you that I was in Ellen. Like, I'ma show you I create, I got my own studio, and I'm doing this. I'm going to show you everything" ... And he, this is why I say it was super transparent with the journey of, "I opened up a brokerage account, and here's how much I made. Here's how much I lost. Here's what I'm doing," this, that, and the third. And people are now like, between the two of them, they have, they have impacted so many people's lives and making certain different choices, um, because they were just them, right? And their purpose, and this is why, uh, when you're starting out your brand on social media of any kind, you have to understand your purpose. The purpose is an important part. W- Oprah's purpose with Wallo's purpose, with Trap's purpose, with majority of these, these people who we're seeing that are making huge impacts, they have a purpose. And if you don't have that, it, uh, then your content has no c- no, no substance. It doesn't mean anything. So w- and we're, we'll, we'll see that as so many have, have died out, because the, the, there was no real purpose. And, and I'm talking about from a purpose of people, not purpose of self, just purpose of pe- It m- it could start with s- with self in the beginning 'cause that's, right now you, maybe that's all you know. But down the line it has to be about people. And when that happens, Oprah, Oprah's good. Tyler Perry's good. Like, th- these types of people are good because it's about others and not about self.
17. 1:54:09 – 1:58:29

    Nicky almost committed suicide (Emotional)

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:54:10

       you're on a hospital bed.

    2. NSNicky Saunders1:54:11

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:54:13

       You're in this job, and it's not even that the, the workplace that you're at is terrible-

    4. NSNicky Saunders1:54:17

       No

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:54:17

       ... but it's just not for you.

    6. NSNicky Saunders1:54:19

       Yeah.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:54:20

       And you're sick. There's people around you that are telling you like, "I don't know if you should be leaving this job."

    8. NSNicky Saunders1:54:27

       Mm-hmm.

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:54:27

       Like, "What are you gonna do? Like, it doesn't make sense."

    10. NSNicky Saunders1:54:30

        Yeah.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:54:30

        "How are you gonna live?" And you're at this point now where not only have you built brands with people that inspire, you know, people every day, millions of people around the world, you've also built this brand yourself.

    12. NSNicky Saunders1:54:47

        Mm-hmm.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:54:47

        And, and I think the most important thing, you've built it by being yourself.

    14. NSNicky Saunders1:54:52

        Mm-hmm.

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:54:53

        The same way that Jay-Z said like, you know, "I show up in every room as Jay," you show up in every room as Nicky.

    16. NSNicky Saunders1:54:58

        Mm-hmm.

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:55:00

        And so I think the thing that I'm curious to understand is we take those two humans. We take the Nicky that was on the hospital bed.

    18. NSNicky Saunders1:55:10

        Mm-hmm.

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:55:10

        We take the Nicky that's sitting here-

    20. NSNicky Saunders1:55:12

        Mm

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:55:12

        ... with the J's and the red tracksuit and the hat. And they were, they were to meet. I'm just curious, what would you have said to that Nicky?

    22. NSNicky Saunders1:55:28

        Um, probably to the extent of, they accept you for you. Right? Um, 'cause looking back even when I was on the hospital bed, I st- I just didn't, I didn't necessarily have an identity back then, right? I just did the 9-5. I picked the job, uh, that would probably transfer the most from a money standpoint, 'cause that's what I knew that was supposed to be important. Um, and in, and looking back at that and seeing where it is now of like, it's absolutely okay to be, to be transparent that you didn't know who you are, and they're going to accept you regardless. And those people who don't accept you, they're just not for you. That's one of the biggest lessons that I learned was that you're, you're not for everybody. Uh, and which is crazy because w- you know, of course when you get on social media or you try to grow a brand, you're like, "Yo, I wanna reach millions, and I wanna do this and that and the third." And, and it's like, but we weren't meant to speak to everybody. Um, when we look at even from a personal standpoint, like we're not dating everybody. We're not just for everybody. And when you realize, like for me, when I realized that I'm just made to speak to a specific group and tho- that group is going to love you regardless of your flaws, of your past, of, you know, um, of your ups and downs, because they go through it the same way. Um, like once I realized that, I moved the way I move. And talking to, to the old Nicky would be like, "You're going to figure it out. Just, just trust this, this part" Because obstacles could look like... I, I almost committed suicide for one of those, those times that I just didn't know where I was at, right? And, but that's because I didn't feel seen and accepted. I could go back and be like, "Eventually you will." And those moments, the ones that was on the hospital bed, the ones that got into arguments, the ones that felt depressed and thought about crazy things, it's all to know that they gonna accept you one day. And it probably isn't going to be the people that you thought was going to accept you. It's going to be people who you've never met in your life that actually give you more flowers than some of the people that you looked up to. And it's a different feeling, and it's so good. It's such a good feeling.

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:58:25

        Hmm. That's so powerful. Thank you so much for coming on.

    24. NSNicky Saunders1:58:28

        Of course.

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:58:28

        That's amazing. Thank you

Episode duration: 1:58:30