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The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam GrantThe Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

Uncertainty is Not the Enemy | The Curiosity Shop

Today's episode is about learning to sit with uncertainty. The episode opens with a discussion of listener questions on how to handle risk, the ingredients of a great apology, and why people stay loyal to relationships and organizations that quietly drain them. Then Brené and Adam turn to uncertainty – how our brains are wired for a threat response, what intolerance of uncertainty actually is, and why it can drive people toward authoritarian leaders. #BrenéBrown #AdamGrant #thecuriosityshop Don't miss a video! Subscribe NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop About The Curiosity Shop: Research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant are partnering on a new weekly podcast grounded in an unflinching commitment to learning and unlearning. At a time when public discourse rewards certainty over inquiry, The Curiosity Shop features two of the world's most sought-after experts on connection, change, and leadership making the case for slowing down, asking better questions, and embracing informed complexity over easy answers. Bringing together their left and right brain sensibilities — she’s a qualitative researcher; he’s a quantitative researcher — they explore some of the defining questions of our time, unpack the research reshaping how we live, lead, and love, and dive deep into the ideas, evidence, and cultural moments intriguing them the most. New episodes drop every Thursday. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Connect with The Curiosity Shop: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecuriosityshop/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1730985049 Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/3oEPsPKDhPVoNNL7pH5db6?si=e2483abb4eed4b03 Connect with Brené Brown: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brenebrown/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brenebrown/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brenebrown/ Connect with Adam Grant: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamgrant/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammgrant/ X: https://x.com/adammgrant/ ============================= Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction and Guest Questions 3:20 - Is Risk Something to Review or Reveal 13:40 - Why do People Stay Loyal to Bad Relationships? 22:28 - Strategies for Apologizing and Repair 32:33 - Is Uncertainty a Strength or Deficit for Leaders? 40:15 - Intolerance for Uncertainty 52:00 - Terror Management Theory and our Response to Uncertainty 59:50 - How Can We Manage Uncertainty 1:05:00 - Closing Show Notes: https://thecuriosityshop.com/podcast/uncertainty-is-not-the-enemy/ Uncertainty is Not the Enemy | The Curiosity Shop https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop

Brené BrownhostAdam Granthost
Apr 16, 20261h 7mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Brown and Grant reframe uncertainty as fuel for curiosity and leadership

  1. They argue premortems work best when teams build both psychological safety and the anticipatory-thinking skills needed to surface real, novel risks early.
  2. They explore why people stay loyal to draining jobs or relationships, emphasizing constraints like economic necessity and safety, alongside dynamics like sunk costs and system justification.
  3. They compare evidence-based apology frameworks, highlighting accountability, behavior change, and avoiding “but,” while not burdening the harmed person to forgive or reassure.
  4. They debate whether humans are hardwired for today’s uncertainty, landing on a shared view that uncertainty triggers threat responses but can be managed with practice, expectations resets, and better tools.
  5. They connect uncertainty spikes to polarization and authoritarian appeal via compensatory control and (partly contested) terror management ideas, then propose countermeasures like critical thinking, community trust, and “prebunking.”

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Treat risk as something to reveal, not merely review.

A strong premortem isn’t a checklist; it creates enough safety and shared language for people to say what they already suspect and to surface risks they haven’t yet learned to anticipate.

Premortems build two things at once: safety and foresight muscles.

Brown argues the friction is both psychological safety and the underdeveloped capabilities of anticipatory thinking, situational/temporal awareness, systems thinking, and critical thinking—especially in a novel, fast-changing world.

Start culture change with “playing to win,” not abstract safety talk.

Brown’s practical entry point is performance: clarify what winning looks like, identify “play not to lose” behaviors (avoidance, lack of productive challenge), then define the mindsets/skills needed to achieve outcomes.

Don’t judge why people stay; investigate constraints and lived realities.

Beyond exit/voice/loyalty/neglect, Brown adds necessity—financial, health insurance, safety risks, and lack of options—making curiosity and support far more useful than “Why don’t you leave?”

Effective apologies prioritize ownership and changed behavior over words.

Grant’s five Rs (regret, rationale, responsibility, repentance, repair) and Lerner’s criteria converge on accountability and follow-through; the harmed person shouldn’t be pressured to forgive or to soothe the apologizer.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

“Teams treat risk as something to review instead of something to reveal.”

Brené Brown (quoting Steven)

“You must want to win more than you want to protect your ego, period.”

Brené Brown

“The best apology is changed behavior.”

Adam Grant

“Get your but out of the way.”

Brené Brown

“I don’t actually think that what people are looking for is certainty… I think what they’re looking for is control.”

Adam Grant

Premortems as risk-revealing practicePsychological safety vs anticipatory thinking skillsExit–voice–loyalty–neglect (and necessity)Cognitive dissonance, sunk costs, system justificationApology frameworks: five Rs and Lerner’s ingredientsIntolerance of uncertainty and control needsCompensatory control, terror management, polarization, authoritarian attractionPrebunking/inoculation, media literacy, algorithm incentives, AI hallucinations

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