The trap of optimizing for growth vs retention #startups #retention #growth #podcast

1. SPSpeaker0:00

   You know, there have been phases where I've worked in consumer and I've cared about my top line user growth, and then phases where I've worked in consumer and I cared about retention. There are all kinds of things you can do when you're only looking at top line revenue growth-

2. SPSpeaker0:14

   Yeah

3. SPSpeaker0:15

   ... or top line user growth, or top line DAs. There are all kinds of tricks. Why don't we just send more push notifications? [laughs]

4. SPSpeaker0:21

   [laughs] 'Cause that's what users really want.

5. SPSpeaker0:23

   Send more email. Let's-

6. SPSpeaker0:25

   [laughs]

7. SPSpeaker0:25

   Let's send them deceptive email.

8. SPSpeaker0:27

   [laughs]

9. SPSpeaker0:27

   You know, there's a problem with your account-

10. SPSpeaker0:29

    [laughs]

11. SPSpeaker0:29

    ... that'll make our GAUs go up.

12. SPSpeaker0:31

    We could go up with, like, dark patterns all day long, right?

13. SPSpeaker0:33

    Yes. Um, and, and whenever I've had to work on retention, it's, like, funny 'cause it's, like, you have to start with, like, well, am I helping the user? Is it actually working? Oh, oh, if it is working, well why do these users not see that it's work- Like, everything comes back down to serving someone. Whereas I feel like whenever I worked on the top line graph, I was serving myself. The user was a side story. The user was someone to be, I don't wanna say exploited-

14. SPSpeaker1:01

    Yeah

15. SPSpeaker1:01

    ... but certainly someone to be extracted from.

16. SPSpeaker1:05

    Yeah.

17. SPSpeaker1:05

    Whereas whenever I worked on retention it was like, it's hard to make these users happy. I gotta [laughs] like I gotta really do more work. If you find yourself looking at the graph that allows you to take more from users than you give, I think that's how you lose the slop war. If you find yourself looking at the graphs that other people don't wanna look at, that's how you win.

18. SPSpeaker1:24

    Yep.

19. SPSpeaker1:24

    Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:24