The trap of optimizing for growth vs retention #startups #retention #growth #podcast

1. 0:00 – 0:15

   Two modes: chasing top-line growth vs building retention

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      You know, there have been phases where I've worked in consumer and I've cared about my top line user growth, and then phases where I've worked in consumer and I cared about retention. There are all kinds of things you can do when you're only looking at top line revenue growth-

   2. SPSpeaker0:14

      Yeah

2. 0:15 – 0:22

   How growth-only optimization invites shallow tactics

   1. SPSpeaker0:15

      ... or top line user growth, or top line DAs. There are all kinds of tricks. Why don't we just send more push notifications? [laughs]

   2. SPSpeaker0:21

      [laughs]

3. 0:22 – 0:25

   Push notifications and email as blunt instruments

   1. SPSpeaker0:22

      'Cause that's what users really want.

   2. SPSpeaker0:23

      Send more email. Let's-

   3. SPSpeaker0:25

      [laughs]

4. 0:25 – 0:31

   Deceptive messaging and manufactured urgency

   1. SPSpeaker0:25

      Let's send them deceptive email.

   2. SPSpeaker0:27

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker0:27

      You know, there's a problem with your account-

   4. SPSpeaker0:29

      [laughs]

   5. SPSpeaker0:29

      ... that'll make our GAUs go up.

5. 0:31 – 0:33

   Dark patterns as an endless (but corrosive) playbook

   1. SPSpeaker0:31

      We could go up with, like, dark patterns all day long, right?

6. 0:33 – 1:01

   Retention work forces a value-first audit

   1. SPSpeaker0:33

      Yes. Um, and, and whenever I've had to work on retention, it's, like, funny 'cause it's, like, you have to start with, like, well, am I helping the user? Is it actually working? Oh, oh, if it is working, well why do these users not see that it's work- Like, everything comes back down to serving someone. Whereas I feel like whenever I worked on the top line graph, I was serving myself. The user was a side story. The user was someone to be, I don't wanna say exploited-

   2. SPSpeaker1:01

      Yeah

7. 1:01 – 1:05

   From serving yourself to serving someone

   1. SPSpeaker1:01

      ... but certainly someone to be extracted from.

   2. SPSpeaker1:05

      Yeah.

8. 1:05 – 1:24

   Retention is harder: earning happiness instead of extracting attention

   1. SPSpeaker1:05

      Whereas whenever I worked on retention it was like, it's hard to make these users happy. I gotta [laughs] like I gotta really do more work. If you find yourself looking at the graph that allows you to take more from users than you give, I think that's how you lose the slop war. If you find yourself looking at the graphs that other people don't wanna look at, that's how you win.

9. 1:24 – 1:24

   Choosing the right graphs: avoiding extraction to win long-term

   1. SPSpeaker1:24

      Yep.

   2. SPSpeaker1:24

      Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:24