Busta Rhymes Finally Opens Up About His Grief, Depression & Recovery!

1. 0:00 – 1:43

   Intro

   1. SBSteven Bartlett0:00

      This is the Busta Rhymes that none of us have ever seen before. Busta Rhymes says it himself, this is a Busta Rhymes that nobody's ever seen before. You will walk away from this conversation understanding not only what it takes to reach the very peak of your powers, but to stay there for 33 years, to have the insane consistency, discipline, dedication, and in his words, addiction to something that will take you to the very top. But then also, you'll see the forces in life that take you from that peak to the deepest depths of darkness, and once you're in that darkness, how do you rise from it? How did Busta take himself from the darkest moment of his life, that he's really not talked about ever before, back to the peak of his powers? This is a human story. It's one of the most inspiring stories we've ever had on this show, and it's a side of a guy that we've known for many, many decades that I have never seen before. Thank you to Busta for this conversation, and if you like this conversation, if you like what we do here on The Diary of a CEO, before we get started, I've got a 10-second favor to ask you. About 62% of you roughly that listen to this podcast frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button. So if you can hit that subscribe button, it is the reason why we're able to get guests like Busta Rhymes to come here and have these conversations with me. I feel like we're a team here. Give a little, take a little. So if you could hit that subscribe button, that'd be absolutely amazing. It's the only favor that I'll ever ask from you, and I promise you in return that I'll do everything to give you more guests like this one, and guests that you love. Enjoy this episode. (instrumental music plays)

2. 1:43 – 9:49

   Early context

   1. SBSteven Bartlett1:43

      Busta, sometimes I think that with maturity and with age, we're able to look back at our earliest years and connect dots that only our maturity and only our own growth and development allow us to connect, and those dots sometimes indicate to us why and how we became the person we are today, and that's really what I'm so compelled to understand with you is, what is that early context that you look back on now and you go, "The reason I am the man I am today sat here is because of this early context and these things and these people"? What is that?

   2. BRBusta Rhymes2:16

      I honestly have to say it starts with my mother and my father. Um, my mother and my father was- was strict, you know what I'm saying? And- and they also made sure that I didn't need for nothing. I was able to really enjoy what it was to be a child, and, you know, I don't- I don't have to sit here and- and mislead people, like I come from some poor struggle and I come from this- this hood shit, like, yeah, I was in the hood. I was in Brooklyn, East Flatbush, Brooklyn, New York, and I was in the hood with enough of the- the goons and the hooligans, but the difference about our era and the way p- you- you mostly hear artists try to portray it now is, even the guys that was the goons and the gangsters and the troublemakers in the street, they had respect and they had integrity and they understood what it was to have proper manners. Like, if my mother, as serious as she was, saw any of the other kids in the street, it was the, we- we, like, I'm giving you an example of how it really literally took a village to raise a child, like none of the neighbors on the block would see another child that they watched grow from a little boy into becoming a teenager or something and see that kid misbehaving and not reprimand them in the street, even if they're not his parent. So my neighbors had permission to- to bust my ass if I was misbehaving, and then they would tell my mother, and if my mother felt like I misrepresented her to make another neighbor have to discipline me, that was gonna get me another ass beating. So you ended up getting two ass beatings (laughs) -

   3. SBSteven Bartlett4:02

      (laughs)

   4. BRBusta Rhymes4:02

      ... for every one trouble that you caused, you know what I'm saying? And- and that's, that shit was important, because I think that as a community, that shit is something that's, it doesn't exist anymore. You can't tell no- nobody else kid nothing. Kids ain't trying to listen to you tell them nothing. They'll lift up something and fling it after you or- or- or go upside your head if, and disrespect you because there's just a totally different value in the way things are done in the community. So it starts with my parents and the way I was raised in- in the house to have respect for my parents, have respect for my other elders, even if you wasn't my parent, and also even if you was dudes that was in the street, you still an elder, we had to respect you as an elder. In- in return, that same respect that came from the house, i- and you, whenever you went abroad and you conducted yourself in that manner, it would garnish the same respect in return. So even if it was a dude in the street on some street shit, the respect that you showed to that elder still warranted a certain respect from them. They wouldn't disrespect the respect that you was raised in your house to have for your family and for them. So that respect was upheld, and it was, that- that integrity was defended, and that was a real solid foundation that all of the other floors was built on, which eventually evolved into becoming a skyscraper for me. So I'm gonna start there with the kids, then I'm gonna s- I'm gonna go to the neighborhood, because again, when my parents was around, I got the same disciplining from the neighbors, the hardworking middle class families, the less fortunate families that were still in the neighborhood. We all was on the same accord about discipline and respect.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett5:59

      Was it, was it easy to see when you look back how you could have gone another way in that context?

   6. BRBusta Rhymes6:03

      Absolutely, because all of those things were still there.... the drug dealing was still there. The shootings were still happening. The robberies were still happening. All of that was there, right? But the beautiful thing was, there was a serious presence of balance that was just as impressionable as all of the things that was the negative presence that was strong and that did get a strong hold on a lot of the youth in the community at the time too.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett6:34

      W- how come you didn't go the other way?

   8. BRBusta Rhymes6:36

      I did. I did. I just was fortunate enough to have something like hip hop that was able to be an alternative that saved my life, changed my life, and I had some incredible people that was around me to support me when I found this interest, and, and I identified with my gift as an artist, to be able to entertain people, perform, articulate my thoughts through song and rhyme form. And I had an incredible support system with my moms. I had an incredible support system with just the other friends and family that I grew up with that was in the community. And then, last but not least, the determination that I had to wanna be able to not disappoint the people that I knew that really was proud of what I was doing, good, bad, or indifferent.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett7:39

      Who are they?

   10. BRBusta Rhymes7:41

       It was, it was all of them.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett7:42

       All of them?

   12. BRBusta Rhymes7:43

       Right? So for example, I pissed my moms off when I decided I wanted to start selling weed and selling crack, right? And the guys that was in the street that I was doing it with, when they realized, even though I was doing it and it was cool for us to do it, they didn't really want us to do it. When they started to see that we had potential to do other things that was gonna keep us safe and keep us away from the street, a lot of the time they didn't have a better opportunity to offer us, so they made sure that they was as present as they could be to guide us through the shit that they didn't even want us to do in the first place, which was the, the stupidness we was carrying on with in the street. So, they did everything they could to minimize the bullshit that we would get into so we don't get killed, so we don't go to jail, so, you know, none of that shit would happen. But once they realized they didn't have a better opportunity for us, that is what they felt was the best that they could do. If they... If we're gonna do the bullshit, we gotta be there to protect them and make sure that they straight and we guide them so that they could do it the best way with the m- least amount of bullshit.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett8:51

       As a younger...

   14. BRBusta Rhymes8:52

       As a younger kid, right?

   15. SBSteven Bartlett8:53

       Right.

   16. BRBusta Rhymes8:54

       When they started to see that this rapping thing and this hip hop shit and breakdancing and graffiti and DJing and all of that shit was something that we started to generate interest for, that's when they started to encourage us to do that more.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett9:09

       Instead of crack and...

   18. BRBusta Rhymes9:10

       Instead of selling the drugs, instead of selling weed, instead of stealing this and taking that and... So, they were so happy to see we found another way, they wanted us to do that. So, the more we did that, if we started to show them any indication as we was making progress that we wasn't continuing to be productive, now it felt like you was pissing off two sets of parents. I'm already pissing off my parents 'cause I'm with them in the street. Now, they see me doing this music shit, they like that shit. They proud of me, so if I'm not doing well in that, now I'm disappointing them too.

3. 9:49 – 17:02

   How your parents' divorce affected you

   1. BRBusta Rhymes9:49

   2. SBSteven Bartlett9:49

      Wh- what was the consequence of your parents separating at 11 years old? 'Cause I think about me being 11 years old, and I remember a conversation. My mom, my mom's Nigerian. I was born in Botswana. My dad's English.

   3. BRBusta Rhymes9:58

      Right.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett9:58

      I remember a- around that age, about 10 years old, my parents calling me and basically telling me they didn't loving each other anymore. And it was like the world had broken in half.

   5. BRBusta Rhymes10:06

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett10:07

      It was like, you can't comprehend the concept of these two people being separate.

   7. BRBusta Rhymes10:11

      Absolutely.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett10:11

      It's like being torn into two pieces.

   9. BRBusta Rhymes10:12

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett10:13

       How was it for you at 11 years old when you find that out?

   11. BRBusta Rhymes10:16

       It was disastrous for me, because, um, like you said, you can't really ever wrap your head around that. As a child, you don't know how to conceptualize that. Like, um, obviously there was things that I was able to do and, and there was enjoyment I was able to have when I spent time with my father that I, I couldn't get when I was with my mother. There was things that I was always able to get as far as nurturing and being cared for and being babied from my mother that I couldn't get from my father. And obviously, divine order is mother and father to make baby, right? So, I definitely didn't wanna lose neither one of them.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett10:57

       Did you change?

   13. BRBusta Rhymes10:58

       I definitely changed, because, um, I wasn't, um... I couldn't figure out how to find my, my, my, uh... The, the, the behaved kid that I was, even though I was still getting into shit, the, the bullshit really started once my mother and my father got a divorce. The misbehaving really started picking up. The, the disrespect started to pick up and intensify. The anger was just a lot more...

   14. SBSteven Bartlett11:30

       Why?

   15. BRBusta Rhymes11:31

       It overwhelmed me more, because I was just... I wasn't happy with my situation. And then I wasn't happy with the, the way that I was directly impacted by their beef. So like, you know, there would be times when, if my mother and my father wasn't getting along, fresh discrepancy between the two of them, say like, the day when my father supposed to pick up me and my brother, 'cause I only got one younger brother. And say he supposed to come and pick us up on this day and particularly for his visitation weekend. If a argument...... Started with the two of them that morning. You know, my father would get to the house, and then my mother wouldn't even let us go. And we would look and see him in the front of the house from the window, and my moms would just be on some bullshit.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett12:34

       How did you feel looking at him from the window?

   17. BRBusta Rhymes12:35

       It was fucking crazy.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett12:37

       You wanted to go, I'm guessing.

   19. BRBusta Rhymes12:38

       Of course. You know what I'm saying? Because there was things, and there was other family that obviously was on my father's side, cousins, and kids from the neighborhoods of the cousins', uh, part of Brooklyn or Queens, and different areas of New York that we would go, that we had friends. And with the family and with the neighborhood friends that we met through our other family and other c- cousins, and things of that nature in the different neighborhoods, we, we, we wouldn't get to see these people until dad came to get us. Because Moms wasn't cool really with that side of the family like that. My father's side of the family wasn't really rocking with my mother's side of the family like that. So if that rotation didn't happen in the visits, we didn't get to enjoy that. We missed our dad. We was only get to, getting the opportunity to see him, you know, once a week, once every two weeks, or sometimes once a month if they, they beefing with each other.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett13:38

       Did, did your relationship with your father at that point kind of become a bit strained when... Because of that beef? Did you start to see him less and less and less?

   21. BRBusta Rhymes13:45

       Yeah, I, I think my conflict with my father, it started to happen more and more because, um, you know, obviously, um, the lack of a parent's presence has an effect in different ways, right? And as a son, I don't know what it is, but I just think instinctually, boys cling onto their moms more. I don't know if that's always the case, but in most cases, that's usually what it is. I think my father's personality was a little conflicting for me with the way my personality was, and the contrast of my father's personality, as opposed to my mother's personality, it, it drew conflict for me too. Because my father, he wasn't as interested in the shit that I wanted to do, or that the shit that I was interested in as a, as a child. Like, he always was more serious about... Whatever he felt was best for my future was all that mattered. It wasn't about what I thought. It was about what he thought. So I always started to feel like... And, and having the comparison, and seeing the contrast between that and how supportive my mother was for the shit that I wanted to do, like, you know, first time I got some pussy, I could come tell my mother.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett15:20

       Mm-hmm.

   23. BRBusta Rhymes15:20

       I could sit down and tell my mother about how that felt. You know what I'm saying? I could sit and tell my moms about, you know, my first wet dream or some shit. I could, I could talk to my moms about the music that I'm making in the studio with, with my crew, Leaders of the New School, at the time, and I could come home and I could play that shit in the house, or I could turn up the shit. Just as long as I could do... Just as long as I did what I was supposed to in the house, my mother was with all the other shit, as long as it was productive, and it kept me away from the trouble in the street. That was relieving for her. My father, you tried to talk to him at the time about some rap shit, he was like, "I don't wanna hear that shit. That shit is a bunch of bullshit, and you're wasting your time with that shit." That's how he used to talk. You know what I'm saying? Now, at that time, I didn't respect it, and at that time I'd, I'd, I'd s- I felt a way... I felt real fucked up about that, because it was just like I could be doing some real bullshit. Like I'm, I'm, I'm actually still one foot in, because I'm not... I'm, I haven't succeeded at this. This shit don't make me no money. I do this shit 'cause I love it. Like I just love it. So when I'm able to do shit that I love with, with my friends that, and with my people that I'm entertained by doing it with them, it's because I have this thing with a crew that there's a collective enjoyment that we're getting from doing this music shit.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett17:00

       Are you still trying to prove him wrong

4. 17:02 – 21:04

   I wanted to prove my father wrong

   1. SBSteven Bartlett17:02

      to some degree?

   2. BRBusta Rhymes17:02

      Hmm?

   3. SBSteven Bartlett17:02

      Did you find yourself trying to prove him wrong then?

   4. BRBusta Rhymes17:04

      Nah, because I got my opportunity to do it.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett17:07

      But before that moment, before-

   6. BRBusta Rhymes17:09

      At that time?

   7. SBSteven Bartlett17:10

      Yeah, yeah.

   8. BRBusta Rhymes17:10

      Absolutely, I was trying to prove him wrong. I was so determined to prove him wrong that it, it, it, it forced me to excel, because the more that he wanted me to do what he wanted me to do-

   9. SBSteven Bartlett17:23

      Which was?

   10. BRBusta Rhymes17:24

       My father was a licensed electrical contractor.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett17:27

       Okay, okay.

   12. BRBusta Rhymes17:28

       So he used to force me to come to work 'cause his way of keeping me off the street was bringing me to work with him, because he had his own company as a licensed electrical contractor.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett17:41

       How'd you feel about that?

   14. BRBusta Rhymes17:42

       I was disgusted with that shit, because we working in these nasty fucking buildings with rats and roaches running around and shitting. It took childhood time for me, because I wasn't able to be outside and play. That's really what I wanted to do.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett17:54

       And how old were you then? 12?

   16. BRBusta Rhymes17:56

       It started a little younger than that, but right around 12 is when it got serious. I would say like around 10 years old was when it started. 12 is when it got serious, because my mother used to send us to different countries every summer with my father, just so we could be able to explore what it was like to live in Jamaica for a summer with the family. Same shit with England. My mother would send us to England. So-When I was around, uh, there was one summer we came out here.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett18:29

       You were 10.

   18. BRBusta Rhymes18:30

       I was, like, 10, 11.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett18:31

       Yeah, yeah.

   20. BRBusta Rhymes18:32

       My brother was younger than me. He was, like, seven. I'm staying in Morecambe and them time, in Preston, and we went to karate school here, we went to primary school here. And we was breakdancing, and I had these cousins that used to, named Samantha and Michaela, and they used to take me, and Val, they used to take me to these little clubs 'cause they used to bring us to, to, like, this little area where it was like a, a, I wouldn't call it a downtown area. But there was a area like a downtown area in the Morecambe area and in the Preston area and in the Blackpool area.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett19:08

       Mm-hmm.

   22. BRBusta Rhymes19:08

       And we would go, and we would breakdance out there with the young kids that was from England. And, you know, we had our style of doing shit from New York. And we, we, we was, we was getting ... We was some dangerous little motherfuckers, now let me ... You know, we was getting busy. We was making it happen. We was, you know, we twisting up and popping and all of this shit.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett19:28

       (laughs)

   24. BRBusta Rhymes19:28

       So it was, it was something where we just became a part of this breakdance community, and they was always looking forward to seeing us. We would go out there, like, three, four times a week. Other people, promoters, they would see us. They started to book us to come in their clubs. Obviously, we're too young to go in a club, so they would let us come perform 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and then we would have to leave immediately. So we made a little money that way, get a little £10 here for a show, a little £20 there for a show. But this, these are the things that we grew around. So when I, when I was around all of this and that started to slow down, Dad was like, "Okay, y'all ain't going nowhere this summer. You coming to work." Do I wanna go to work? No. Do I wanna be an electrician? No. Do I wanna be fucking pulling BX cable through Sheetrock? No. Do I wanna be hammering nails and then bang my finger? No. Do I wanna see rats and fucking roaches crawling over my shoes and my Timberland boots, and ... I don't wanna do none of that. And I'm watching kids riding up and down and pop a wheelie on the bike and music playing outside, and I can't do that shit. I was, I used to be super angry at that shit every day with my father.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett20:44

       What did you want to do instead?

   26. BRBusta Rhymes20:46

       I wanted to rap. I wanted to make music. I wanted to breakdance. I wanted to do all the shit that hip hop consisted of. Like, I wa- I became the embodiment of hip hop, and it was the thing that was my excuse to not go to work.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett21:02

       Why did you wanna rap?

5. 21:04 – 23:56

   Why did you want to rap?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett21:04

   2. BRBusta Rhymes21:04

      Well, number one, I wanted to be the DJ first.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett21:09

      Okay. (laughs)

   4. BRBusta Rhymes21:10

      You know what I'm saying? The DJ thing to me, though, I never really got good at it to be the DJ. I was able to do it, but I was never nice enough to become the superstar DJ. And at that time, the DJ was super important because all of the groups had the DJ name. So the Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, Jam Master Jay, Run-DMC, like the DJ was always the solo ... It was like he was the big shot. So when I, I couldn't ... I'm not really the technology dude. You know what I'm saying? So all of this equipment shit, like, it was just a little complicated for me. And then, I actually became an MC by accident. And the interesting part about that was I caught two charges selling crack by the time I was 12. And fortunately, the laws was different, and I was a minor, so I didn't see no serious trouble. But I was definitely on my way to getting into some serious trouble-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett22:36

      Mm-hmm.

   6. BRBusta Rhymes22:36

      ... if I didn't, if my mother didn't say, "All right, enough of this shit. We gotta get you outta here." That's when she took me from Brooklyn and brought me to Long Island. When I got to Long Island, that's when I met Brown, C. Brown from Leaders of the New School, Dinko D from Leaders of the New School. Milo was my mother's sister's son, so he's my first blood cousin. But before we brought in Milo, it was ... And even before we brought in Dinko, it was, it was me, Dinko, and another dude named Mystery. Mystery was hustling in the street too. But when we went to Long Island now, a lot of other families was thinking like my mother. They brought their kids from Brooklyn too to Long Island, from Queens to Long Island, from the Bronx to Long Island. So we left the neighborhood, which is the hood we was raised in, we left the hood to come to the suburbs and still be around a bunch of kids from the hood.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett23:37

      (laughs)

   8. BRBusta Rhymes23:37

      (laughs) You know what I'm saying? So the same shit you was running from, we found a way to do the same shit in these nice neighborhoods now. And here we come as the generation terrorizing these beautiful neighborhoods. And we fucked these neighborhoods

6. 23:56 – 34:53

   Becoming an accidental MC

   1. BRBusta Rhymes23:56

      up.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett23:57

      When you say you became an accidental MC ...

   3. BRBusta Rhymes24:00

      This is what happened. I wasn't rapping yet. I was only breakdancing. I was only popping, and I was DJing a little bit, and I was messing around with the graffiti. I wasn't rapping yet. So when I move to Long Island, I meet Charlie Brown, I meet Mystery. And what ends up happening ...... is in this junior high school now, they got, like, these lip sync contests, they got rap contests, and, you know, we now finally getting the chance to experience what it's like to have a s- be in school where you have periods, different periods in classes. And you in one class for 45 minutes to an hour, then the bell ringing and you switch. Y'all got the hallway action, everybody talking shit. Go to the next class, you flirt with a couple of chicks on the way to the next class. So all of that interaction is starting now. Puberty kicking in crazy, you know, y- 13 years old, 12, 13, now you starting to get your hormones just moving different. So... obviously, you going through the stage in your life now where you wanna impress everybody, you wanna, you wanna be the cool guy in school. So whenever you came to Long Island from the five boroughs, it was a thing, "Oh, that's the new kid from Brooklyn. Oh, that's the new kid from Queens. Oh, that's the new kid from Bronx. That's the new kid from Staten Island." So me being one of the new kids from Brooklyn, it created this talk. And... the rapping thing is happening. Charlie Brown was, like, the guy. He was like the, the, the, the number one rap dude in school at the time. So one day, I'm coming out of the school, and we get in the schoolyard and, you know, some of the kids waiting on the school bus and some of the kids is waiting to see, you know, the football game or the basketball game after school. There was, like, a cipher that was formed in this particular day, and it was a big one, and it was C-Brown rapping and two other kids, and then, uh, C-Brown was getting most of the shine. I walks over to the cipher and I started beatboxing, right? And, uh, Brown he's dr- he, he, he doing his rap shit to my beatbox or whatever, and, you know, I'm keeping the beat going for him, and then, um... everything was smooth in the beginning, like, you know, he was just rhyming, everything was cool and, you know, he's sounding good, and then at probably like a good 30, 40 seconds into it, he just started disrespecting me. So I'm beatboxing for him, and he dissing me and I'm, I'm, I'm kinda, like, torn between should I punch this dude in his face or should I just keep beatboxing and not be the party pooper of the party energy that we have in here?

   4. SBSteven Bartlett27:17

      And you're how old?

   5. BRBusta Rhymes27:18

      I was 12. I was, I was 13 now, and I'm saying to myself, "I'm from Brooklyn." And the mentality back then was everybody from Long Island was pussy. You know, it's the suburbs, it's the green grass, it's the flower beds, it's th- it's the, the, the, the nice houses, uh... We come from s- from s- concrete jungle, we come from projects, we come from struggle. So I'm looking at this dude and I'm just looking at him like, "I'mma fuck you up like in two seconds because you a pussy to me, but you disrespecting me in front of all these people, and if I don't do something, then they gonna look at me like I'm a pussy too." So as I'm getting ready to do something stupid, the rhyme stopped, like he was done and... everybody was bigging him up and, you know, I ain't wanna look like a sore loser even though there was no battle, he just ch- chose to diss me for no reason, and I couldn't understand it 'cause I'm like, "Yo, I'm here to support you right now, I'm giving you the beat and the whole shit, the fuck you doing?" Long story short, that was the day I said, "A'ight, I'mma go home and I'mma write a rhyme tonight and I'mma come back tomorrow and I'mma fucking disrespect this yout-"

   6. SBSteven Bartlett28:46

      (laughs)

   7. BRBusta Rhymes28:47

      "... in front of everybody the same way he dissed me up in front of everybody." And the next day, I came to school, I waited all day, I ain't tell nobody shit, we got back in that same yard, nice big crowd the next day, he rhyming again, I started beatboxing for him again, like, s- like, like, it's the exact thing happening like the day before. So we going and I'm doing what I'm doing and everything is cool and nobody ain't got no clue 'cause I didn't say shit to nobody about having raps ready. And the crazy shit is when I wrote my rhymes... I was listening to a bunch of LL Cool J shit because at the time LL was battling everybody on record, you know what I'm saying? He's battling Kool Moe Dee, battle Ice-T, battle... You know, he was just, he was the one that was trying to take everybody head off and I was like, "Yo, I wanna come like LL so I could tear this boy head off." So I ended up doing my shit and somehow it went from me beatboxing to him, and for him, to me telling him, "Yo, why don't you do a beat for me?" And he was like, "Oh, you got raps ready today?" I'm like, "Just do a beat, let me just try something." So he did the beat and I started off the rhyme on some calm shit, and then when I started to get into the disrespect lines, that's when the, the whole thing just started to happen on its own. Like... my frustration and then me seeing the people reacting to my shit the way that I wanted them to...It just made me more confident, more cocky, more charismatic, and that's when the whole Busta Rhymes thing started to happen. And my name wasn't even Busta Rhymes at the time. I had a fucked up rap name at the time. (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett30:53

      (laughs) What was it?

   9. BRBusta Rhymes30:56

      Yo, my name was terrible, yo. My name at the time, I had two. I had my name from being a part of the Five Percent Nation of the Gods and Earths, which that name was cooler. That was Lord Taheim, right? But somehow I abandoned that to become like the rappers that had three part names, right?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett31:25

       (laughs) Is there a reason you're not telling me? (laughs)

   11. BRBusta Rhymes31:27

       I'm getting to it.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett31:28

       (laughs)

   13. BRBusta Rhymes31:28

       I'm just trying to help with, I'm setting it up with the proper prerequisite.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett31:33

       (laughs)

   15. BRBusta Rhymes31:34

       So LL Cool J is a three part name.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett31:39

       Yeah.

   17. BRBusta Rhymes31:39

       Jam Master Jay is a three part name. All of the guys from the Fat Boys, Prince Markie Dee, Cool Rock Ski, them dudes had three part names, right? I changed my name to Chill O Ski. (laughs)

   18. SBSteven Bartlett32:01

       (laughs)

   19. BRBusta Rhymes32:01

       Yo, yo. That name is so fucking terrible, I know. I'm sorry, bro. The name was terrible. And you know what's so crazy? I kept that name for a long time 'cause I really thought it was the shit, 'cause I felt like-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett32:18

       Chill O Ski.

   21. BRBusta Rhymes32:19

       Chill O Ski, bro. Terrible. I know, it was terrible. But I- I- I really was proud of like, I- I got a three part name, like my favorites, and if you wanna be like your favorites, you gotta do the shit that is a replication of your favorites, and then I destroyed Charlie Brown's so bad that at the end of that night, the end of that little battle that afternoon after school, he- he just came over to the side and was like, "Yo, we should be in a group together."

   22. SBSteven Bartlett32:59

       And that's really the day that I guess Busta Rhymes, I guess, it's a catalyst moment the day Busta was born.

   23. BRBusta Rhymes33:06

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett33:06

       You talked about how that kinda moment helped you develop your style, and your charisma, and the way you carried yourself. And from then till when you get signed at 17 years old, I'm curious about what happens in that moment, because that's really, you know ... A lot of people at 12 years old, or 10 years old, or whatever, wanna be hip hop actors, or as hip hop stars, or they wanna be whatever, they wanna be musicians, but very, very few make it to the top table. What happens between the playground that day and 17 years old you getting signed when you look back and go, "It was for that reason"? Was it natural talent? Is it hard work? Is it all of the above?

   25. BRBusta Rhymes33:44

       It was, it's all of the above, but the first thing for me was the addiction to the reaction that I was getting from the people, and I was seeing it and how it felt in real time. And just- just- just looking at the fact that I came up with something in my crib, by myself, in my bedroom, that was fueled by a determination of wanting to defend myself, like a fight. And a lot of the times, I don't think I might've said it like this, I- I've said it before, but I don't think I've said it a lot, I don't know if it would've been a ... I had the same desire to wanna be in hip hop. I had the same desire to wanna rhyme, DJ, but I don't know if- if that moment didn't happen, I don't know if I would've pursued being an MC. At that time, it probably wouldn't have happened.

7. 34:53 – 42:08

   The addiction to entertaining people & their reactions

   1. BRBusta Rhymes34:53

   2. SBSteven Bartlett34:53

      I've sat here with a lot of people, um, who are comedians, and entertainers, and actors in the biggest movies in the world, and it's so interesting to me that there tends to be an early catalyst moment where they perform maybe in front of the family at Christmas-

   3. BRBusta Rhymes35:08

      Right.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett35:08

      ... or on stage, or whatever it is, and they get this reaction, and in that moment, that reaction does something to them on a psychological level which becomes, a- as you, the word you used is the word I hear, becomes this addiction.

   5. BRBusta Rhymes35:19

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett35:20

      And I often wonder to myself, because a lot of other people will experience that reaction and not develop the addiction-

   7. BRBusta Rhymes35:25

      Right.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett35:25

      ... so the reaction, it appears to me, is doing something for those people that they needed at that moment.

   9. BRBusta Rhymes35:31

      Yes. I needed it at that moment. I'm gonna tell you something. It- it actually happened before that. To wanna be an MC happened in that moment. The addiction to entertaining people, that- that shit happened when I was like s- seven, eight years old.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett35:50

       Mm.

   11. BRBusta Rhymes35:50

       May- may- maybe even six, six years old, because where it started for me initially was, you know, at the time, and particularly like I was saying how the neighborhood was back then and how we was raised in that one house back then, my mother and my father, you know, we had to go to bed at 9:00 on a school night. And on the weekends, when we was that young, we might be able to stay up until about 10:00, but we still had to go to bed by a certain time. When my mother had company, or like my father, and they had like family and friends, or, you know, they just had their little grownup get togethers, and they get to drinking a little bit, sometimes, you know, they so entertained by each other's company, they forget to send us to bed at 9:00.... they playing music and shit. And I used to have to do things, I would try to creatively come up with ways to avoid being sent to bed at 9:00. So when they playing music, the first thing that I would always get into doing is reenactments of Michael Jackson and, from the Jackson Five, and James Brown dance routines.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett37:08

       (laughs)

   13. BRBusta Rhymes37:08

       So I used to do that shit, and I was nice with the fucking split and spinning around and shit. And just (laughs) c- carrying on. (laughs)

   14. SBSteven Bartlett37:17

       (laughs)

   15. BRBusta Rhymes37:18

       I'm doing all type of shit and I'm, (laughs) I'm doing for hours-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett37:23

       (laughs)

   17. BRBusta Rhymes37:24

       ... until I literally would be sweating through my clothes. But it was so entertaining that sometimes the whole c- company that was there for my family, my mother and my father, they ended up cheering me on and rooting me on to continue and they're bigging up my moms about how much talent her son has, and...

   18. SBSteven Bartlett37:49

       Was it not that feeling then, that you were chasing?

   19. BRBusta Rhymes37:51

       That's what it was first. That's what I was saying-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett37:53

       Mm-hmm.

   21. BRBusta Rhymes37:53

       ... like I, I wasn't thinking about being no rapper then, but I, I knew what that feeling felt like and I always wanted that feeling.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett38:05

       Mm.

   23. BRBusta Rhymes38:06

       And that feeling started in the crib, and then it translated into me trying to get that attention in the classrooms which turned me into a jokester in the class. So I would do shit to get the attention of the crowd from the class and became like this class clown dude, and I would get in trouble and shit. And then it translated from that into, you know, me breakdancing and doing all of this hip hop shit, because I loved hip hop and I was starting to see what w- what was c- being created as a movement, and what was being generated as an interest that was taking over. Like it didn't matter what else was cool at the time, when hip hop started to really become that shit, there was nothing more important than knowing how to do something that was a representation of hip hop. If you was a graffiti artist and you was fucking dope, you became something that was like on a celebrity status level.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett39:13

       Hmm.

   25. BRBusta Rhymes39:14

       That's when motherfuckers started putting graffiti on clothes, and everybody that was involved with hip hop or some kind of representation of hip hop became some sort of celebrity. So for me, that's why I wanted to learn how to do everything in hip hop, because I still didn't know what I wanted to do. The DJ shit, complicated. The breakdancing shit, I ain't like the fucking bruises I was getting all the time, you know what I'm saying? And the graffiti shit, I was cool with it, but it was really when that situation happened with me and C. Brown, that's now when I found that I was able to get the feeling of when I was this little boy dancing for my parents and their company, and at the same time I was able to have that spotlight on me being the rapper guy. So it's like all of this shit became the thing that I started to grow not only this appreciation for it, but I started to grow addicted to the shit.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett40:18

       That is what I was expecting in terms of like...

   27. BRBusta Rhymes40:21

       (laughs)

   28. SBSteven Bartlett40:21

       I was just trying to figure out the psychological reason why you became so addicted to this. 'Cause listen, I come from a background where lots of my friends started rapping and most of them fell off, and then there's like one or two of them that just beca- it became like their medication to some shit.

   29. BRBusta Rhymes40:35

       Yeah. Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett40:35

       And I've always wondered why they just, like that individual just stuck at it for all those years.
8. 42:08 – 45:16

   Father pushing you away from hip hop because he loved you

   1. BRBusta Rhymes42:10

      I wasn't wasting my time. He built this company, he wanna pass it down.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett42:15

      It was love.

   3. BRBusta Rhymes42:16

      It's love. It was, he need his son to succeed. I'm his pride and his joy, and failure is not an option with my father.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett42:30

      And I guess where he came from, you know... It's the same with my mother. My mother, when I told her at 18 I wasn't going to university, wouldn't speak to me for years.

   5. BRBusta Rhymes42:38

      Hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett42:38

      But she comes from Nigeria.

   7. BRBusta Rhymes42:39

      Right.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett42:39

      She left school at seven years old. She can't read or write today.

   9. BRBusta Rhymes42:41

      Wow.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett42:42

       So I was the only, of her four kids, I was the only one that says, "I'm not going to university."

   11. BRBusta Rhymes42:45

       Right.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett42:45

       Now, she stood in my way and said, "Don't start a business," et cetera, et cetera. But in h- in my maturity I go, she stood in my way because she loved me...

   13. BRBusta Rhymes42:52

       Absolutely.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett42:53

       ... at the time. And everyone goes, a lot of people go through, especially sort of immigrant...... immigrant kids and stuff?

   15. BRBusta Rhymes42:57

       Oh, us primarily.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett42:58

       Yeah.

   17. BRBusta Rhymes42:59

       Because that pain and that struggle, that suffering that they come from, that shit ain't no ... That's not the shit that we was raised in.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett43:07

       Mm-hmm.

   19. BRBusta Rhymes43:07

       That, you know, me and you, we obviously, even if you was born there, you wasn't ... You didn't spend your years there to-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett43:15

       No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

   21. BRBusta Rhymes43:15

       ... to experience the pain that they did. So you come here now, you still don't know they struggle. They know though. They ain't never gonna forget, and they obviously want the best for they babies, man. My father came to the Apollo to see us, and this what made him even more sure about disrespecting me and disrespecting the rap shit. Me and my, my crew, Leaders of the New School, we had an opportunity to perform at the Apollo, at amateur night at the Apollo. And we get up there, and we got booed, badly booed. One of the first times, you know, when me and Charlie Brown decided to form the group, the guy, Mystery, that was with us originally, he got tired of the, the, the wait. There was no real light at the end of the tunnel if we was gonna get an opportunity to get a record deal. He was selling drugs in the street too. He decided he wanted to go back to the street and do that. He ain't wanna be in a rap group no more. That's how room was made for Dinko to get in the group, 'cause we still felt like we needed to replace the third rapper. We got our three rap dudes now. It's me, Brown, and Dinko, and then I said, "Yo, we need a DJ. Let me get my cousin." So Milo came and we ended up doing this show at the Apollo, got booed, and my father was even ... He was hitting me with the, "I told you so," that night. "See, I tell you, yo, y'all waste your time with this likkle eediat rapper boy shit. You have to come on work. That's why I'ma tell you fi come to work, so you can learn some stability and stop waste your time with this rapper shit." This how he talking to me, and we still in the venue.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett44:50

       Really?

   23. BRBusta Rhymes44:51

       We ain't even leave. He just ta- was beating me in the head with just ... Total disrespect. But again, at that time, I, I hated him for it. As we got older and I, I, I, that day came for me, and I got my, my record deal when I was 17 and ...

   24. SBSteven Bartlett45:15

       What was it about

9. 45:16 – 48:11

   Why you?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett45:16

      you though? Was it, was it the s- was it the unique style and the, you had a completely different flow that people were just drawn to, that raised the energy on every record you touched?

   2. BRBusta Rhymes45:27

      It definitely was that, and that came completely from dancehall influence. Right? So are you familiar with like Sting?

   3. SBSteven Bartlett45:38

      Yeah.

   4. BRBusta Rhymes45:38

      All right.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett45:39

      Yeah.

   6. BRBusta Rhymes45:39

      So Sting clashes that used to happen from the '80s all the way down.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett45:44

      Mm-hmm.

   8. BRBusta Rhymes45:45

      The one thing that I saw in dancehall culture that I wasn't seeing in hip hop was the way when dancehall artists was getting busy and clashing in front of them 10, 15,000 dollars, thousand people in that Sting audience. The energy that they had to have to make sure that they're portraying themselves in a way that was just more than the lyrics. It was a, a, a complete showmanship that was a collective of things. It was the outfit, it was the jumping around, it was the kicking their foot. It was the flinging your hand and the way you was coming through on the microphone, and the flow patterns, and the, the cleverness of the lyrics and the punchlines. It was all of these things, and it was mind-blowing to me because I wasn't seeing that same thing in hip hop. In hip hop, you seeing dudes just walking around, you know, they might hold their crutch and they act like they too cool to be that animated. Me, I love that shit. I love kung fu movies. I love karate movies. So all of that shit, hype pff pff pff pss pss, hype pss pss, and the dancing up, and the this and the that, and the foot this that, I just took all of that shit and I said, "I'm gonna turn this into what I'm gonna do on these stages." And I think that if I master this shit and I could m- m- master my breathing, and I don't exhaust myself too soon, (laughs) try to jump around all over the fucking stage going crazy, I think I might become a dangerous motherfucker that's hard to compete with because dudes are not moving like this on no stage. I'm going to all of the shows. I'm being a student. I'm in the clubs, I'm in the street, I'm everywhere just to see and learn and, and, and pull inspiration from somewhere. And I pulled a lot of inspiration from different places, but that was when I found it. Like, looking at those clash, Sting clashes in Jammies and Killamanjaro, like, all them man from Saxon and all of that that was out here, Tippa Irie and all of them man, like la- uh, them, them dudes raised me.

10. 48:11 – 57:50

    What are the fundamentals that people need for success?

    1. BRBusta Rhymes48:11

    2. SBSteven Bartlett48:11

       It's so interesting because what you've described there is kind of like my understanding of what creativity is, where you, you pull from so many different almost clouds of inspiration to create a new one.

    3. BRBusta Rhymes48:21

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett48:21

       And I was thinking about, I was thinking about your kids. You, you said to me before we started recording, you got six kids and they're around like 20, 30 years old now.

    5. BRBusta Rhymes48:28

       Right.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett48:30

       Based on what you now understand about what made you stand out different, the, the, what it took in terms of your mentality, you used the word student there. If one of those kids comes to you now and says, "Dad, what are the fundamentals that I can take from your journey up until that point," at say, 21 years old, "that would increase my chance of success no matter the industry?" What are those fundamentals?

    7. BRBusta Rhymes48:54

       So the fundamentals that I would give my kids, which I've already ...... Feel like I've been givin' to them. Is the first thing is, identify with what you love, and once you love it, hone in on that thing until you can master it to the point where people can identify that there's no questioning your love for it. That's the first thing. Once you love it to the point where your actions speak louder than anything you could say about how much you love it, that is always the root of whatever success is preordained or destined to come to you, no matter what it is that you choose to do. Because what is actually gonna create the revenue is that you're not doing it from a place of trying to generate the revenue.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett50:03

       Mm-hmm.

    9. BRBusta Rhymes50:05

       You're gonna do this shit regardless, so it's not about the money for you. You're fulfilling something, in your soul, in your body. There's a feeling that even the money can't give you. There's people that have this money, and they still can't find that feelin', man. And there's nothing like it. This is a feeling that really exists, bro, that can actually make you the happiest person in the world. That happens to be my music, because ... And, and my children understand now, I love my children so much, and I love my family so much, I'm not playing with anything that I know is gonna allow me the opportunity to make sure that I can show them and I can take care of them, and I can, without compromise, find a way and a means to s- securing of the wellbeing of my family. And I found something that I love that has provided me those means and the ability to do it, and I don't have to question how I'm going to get to that on no day. I could be sick. I could be, I could be sick and in the hospital and write a song. And even if I'm too weak to say it, I could give it to somebody and work out whatever business I need to work out with that person so they still do that same song. God willin', the success of that song, that hopefully is garnished, reaches a level of success based on this creation from a feelin' that I was inspired by, or from a feelin' that I got that I can't explain and I can't give to nobody other than through this music, that will take care of not just my family, but it actually might take care of filling a space in the millions of people's lives that will hear this shit. That at some point, depending on the impact of the song, they fuck around and see you 20 years from now and become the fuckin' CEO of Google, and will tell you, "I am a fan. I loved you. What this fuckin' song did to, for me when I was 10, now I'm 30. And at this moment when I was 10, I remember wearin' this little T-shirt with a yellow fuckin' balloon face on it, and I had my little bicycle outside, and my mother let me play with my two friends two houses down. We played this fuckin' song 10 times in a row until we had to go inside.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett53:08

        (laughs)

    11. BRBusta Rhymes53:09

        And that song changed my life, and it gave me the motivation to want to do this thing, evolve into this person, think a new way that allowed me to pursue something that I found that I love. And now I'm a fuckin' $200 million CEO in Google. I'm a fan of your shit. You're still doing what I love, and I wanna sit down with you and figure out something magical that we could do together."

    12. SBSteven Bartlett53:34

        Sounds addictive.

    13. BRBusta Rhymes53:36

        That's very fucking addictive.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett53:38

        (laughs)

    15. BRBusta Rhymes53:39

        Fuck that.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett53:40

        (laughs)

    17. BRBusta Rhymes53:40

        That's the most addictive shit in the world to me, because it's like, that's, that's greater than man. You can't teach somebody how to do that. That's not a book science. That's not school. You know what I'm saying? That shit is you identify with this gift. We all got the gift. There's something that we've all been blessed with. At some point, if we listen to that fuckin' little thing that speaks to us inside, some people call it instinct, some people call it a vibe, some people call it an energy. Whatever the fuck you call it, some people call it a voice, whatever that thing is, bro, if it sparks the thought that changes the whole trajectory to what your life can evolve into because you took a second to listen to that shit, you are identifying with your blessing. You are identifying with your gift. And at that point, you learn what the fuck it is and become one with it and walk in your purpose, bro. So you might instill this thing into t- the lives of so many people that you live forever through this thing that you've created. That's not a man thing no more. That shit is deeper than man.I am absolutely addicted to that, because when you really think about it, that shit is something ... That's, that's godly. It's weird to me when people find it strange when we call ours- ourselves gods and earths, right? Because I'm saying, "What do you want me to be? You want me to be other than God?" Anything other than its original form is the worst state of its own existence, because you not even functioning within the nature that you was created to function in. So, you can't make me call myself devil-like, because you think that it's a blasphemous act for me to say that I'm godly or I'm godlike or I'm made in the likeness of the most high. That mentality is why I function this way, because I refuse to think that there is nothing that I can't do beyond man. Beyond man. If I could sit down here and smoke a spliff and eat a bowl of cereal and fucking go, "Ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya. A-When I step up in the place, and when I step cor- A-s- Ayo, I steps correct. Woo-hah, got you all in check." And the whole fucking planet is doing it. It don't matter what country I go to. And then I get to Sweden and they telling me, "Ya, ya, yas. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes." I ain't from Sweden, I don't know that. I just was vibing and bugging out. The weed had me feeling a way. Nice little spliff, little food, little bowl of cereal, and I just was joking in the crib and then, "Ya, ya, ya, ya, ya." Motherfuckers was laughing in my house. I thought it was funny, I did this shit on the record. I like funny, but I also like serious. There's always a balance between the guys that we found the most entertainment from. All of the dudes that was on TV that we liked that was the fucking criminals, they was always funny, right? Al Pacino in Scarface. He was a serious motherfucker, but he was funny. Joe Pesci in Goodfellas. Serious, but funny. Right?

    18. SBSteven Bartlett57:20

        Mm-hmm.

    19. BRBusta Rhymes57:21

        We, in the hood, we love the balance between serious and funny. I try to incorporate serious and funny in all of my shit. Bottom line is, my children, the fundamentals I wanna give you all: find it, love it, identify with what you love, become one with that thing, pursue it to the point where you become so engulfed in it you don't know nothing else other than that. Walk in your purpose, is what it evolves into.

11. 57:50 – 1:03:56

    What character traits do they need to have?

    1. BRBusta Rhymes57:50

    2. SBSteven Bartlett57:50

       What kind of human beings do they need to be? Character traits?

    3. BRBusta Rhymes57:54

       Aight. This is what it needs to be. Some of it might sound fucked up. First thing is you gotta be selfish as hell. You gotta be selfish. I don't give a fuck ... It's, it's, it's, it's the, it's the sacrifice, but without great sacrifice and without great risk, there's n- there is no such thing as great reward. Can't have one. There's d- uh, that doesn't ... There's no m- ... That math will never math.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett58:25

       (laughs)

    5. BRBusta Rhymes58:25

       (laughs) You know what I'm saying?

    6. SBSteven Bartlett58:26

       Yeah.

    7. BRBusta Rhymes58:26

       You have to have, and I don't like this word, but I'm gonna say it because it's true, you have to be a little man- maniacal with the shit. Maniac, right? That word isn't good in a lot of situations, but when you're pursuing your destiny, when you identify with your destiny, you have to be selfish, you have to be maniacal, you have to be uncompromising. And you have to move in a way, when it comes to those three things, when you function completely in a way where it's an unwavering faith. Like, it don't matter how fucked up that shit might look. It don't matter how much it feel like it ain't gonna work.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett59:15

       Delusional.

    9. BRBusta Rhymes59:17

       Complete delusion. You gotta believe the delusion.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett59:22

        (laughs)

    11. BRBusta Rhymes59:23

        Because it's only delusional until it works. So is it really delusional? A motherfucker only gonna call it delusion until it don't work for nobody else to see, but for the whole world to see. And then once the world see it, there's nothing delusional about it. Now, your delusion becomes, "Oh, he was a fucking genius."

    12. SBSteven Bartlett59:49

        (laughs)

    13. BRBusta Rhymes59:51

        "We didn't see it when he saw it. We didn't understand it when he did. We thought this motherfucker was crazy. But he definitely always f- ... He always figured this thing was the thing to do, and he's- he stuck by that shit."

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:05

        When you say selfish, obviously that word has got a lot of different connotations and meanings, and ... But I heard from it that the selfishness is focusing on serving yourself and your dreams and your mission. Like, you were somewhat selfish when you said, "I wanna be a rapper," even though your father is saying, "I want you to come and be an, um, electrical contractor." That was selfish of you to say, "No, I wanna take care of me first."

    15. BRBusta Rhymes1:00:30

        That's selfish. I'm meaning even more extreme than that. Yes, selfish to my father because in, in a way I don't wanna cl- I don't wanna look at it as it was selfish to him. I was just on some, "I don't wanna do what you wanna do." That's not really being selfish. That's just having a difference in opinion, right?

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:51

        Mm-hmm.

    17. BRBusta Rhymes1:00:52

        Selfish ... When I say selfish, it means my children, right? I've had to miss moments that we're never gonna get back. I missed my oldest son's high school graduation. I missed one of my daughter's college graduations. I've missed-... times when I should have been there to teach my child how to drive, or I should have been there to teach my child how to ride a bike. I missed a lot of that, right? And a lot of it had to do with circumstance, and my circumstance, which I obviously contributed to creating for myself, I had to take responsibility for these choices that I made and these circumstances that I created for myself. And the, the situation that became a real-life situation for me left me very few choices. So there was a choice where I could be there for everything, and then the money ain't where it need to be. Or I'm gonna do what I love, not just because I love it and it brings me joy and it brings me peace of mind, because I would go to the studio, and when I'm in that studio and I close the door, and then I'm in those four walls, I don't have to argue with the child's mother. I don't have to argue with my woman. I don't get talk back from people that choose to have a debate about shit that ain't even worth debating about. All of the unnecessary distractions, I can leave outside of that room. And when I'm in that room, I am fulfilling my destiny. I am fulfilling my soul, and I'm making myself get to a place mentally where my peace of mind is so where it needs to be, that not only am I allowed to become, feel, think, and evolve into whatever m- place my mind takes me. I'm then able to get to that place emotionally, spiritually, mentally, create something, put it in a song, change the effect that I can have as an impact through this thing that I'm blessed with as a gift. And then I could come down off of that and be in a happier place, so that when I do get back around the people that I gotta argue with, I'm in a better place to deal with them.

12. 1:03:56 – 1:10:00

    Do you feel guilty for missing your children's life events?

    1. BRBusta Rhymes1:03:56

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:56

       Is there sort of guilt associated with that as you've sort of matured and un- understood and, you know, had time to reflect on missing those key moments? I worry about this a lot, because I'm a workaholic, and I think my work is, in many respects, some kind of psychological escape. Um, and I- I'm concerned that when I do have a kid, I've got a partner. We've been together four years. I'm 31 now. That I might use my work as an excuse to not be there, or I might not make the adj- necessary adjustment to realize that I only get one bike ride moment. So...

    3. BRBusta Rhymes1:04:33

       I'm gonna tell you something. There is no right way and no wrong way when it comes to making that decision, other than what you know in your heart. I definitely live with guilt. I feel like there was things that I could have done without to be there for my children. But I also feel like that's me saying that now, right?

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:07

       Yeah.

    5. BRBusta Rhymes1:05:09

       I'm in a different place now in my life than I was at that time, and at that time, the mentality that I have now didn't exist then, right? And the mentality that needed to exist then for me to get to this mentality now was important. And it was a part of the needed components to exist in my journey for me to be able to have this conversation now, this mentality now.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:38

       Was that survival?

    7. BRBusta Rhymes1:05:40

       It definitely was survival. When you're dealing with four mothers all having you in court systems, all getting significant amount of money for child support, all not in the best place relationship-wise with you, sometimes business is up, sometimes business is down, you have to be able to be swift and changeable, regardless of the circumstances, in order to stay remaindable.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:12

       Hmm.

    9. BRBusta Rhymes1:06:12

       Because no matter if business is up or business is down, the courts don't care. The child support that needs to come every month, the mothers need to see it, 'cause they don't care. When your kids need what they need, they don't care, because they didn't ask for this. You can't create an excuse. That's how I was raised. Your kid didn't ask to be put in a situation that you cannot do what you're supposed to do for them. So it's not their problem. You have to find a solution.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:51

        It's a lot of pressure.

    11. BRBusta Rhymes1:06:52

        It's a lot. It's a lot. But I also feel like when you identify with your gift, that's part of the gift. That's what makes it the gift, 'cause the Most High usually don't give us more than we can handle, you know? And with that being said, all of these things we talking about, which is one of the best questions that I love that you asked, right? What would I give my kids? I w- uh, and I keep coming back to that, because I want my kids to understand...That focus on what you love is most primary. Being selfish, and when I say selfish, not just my kids, but even my woman. There might be a lot of shit she wanna do. "Sorry, I can't do it right now. I can't do it right now. I could do it later." And then there's moments when you can do it, and you make the time and you do it. You know? But until there's another means of me being able to do what I love and find the fulfillment that I find while I'm doing what I love, this is also a part of who y'all fell in love with.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:07

        I wanna talk to you about one of our sponsors, LinkedIn Jobs, super quick, because without LinkedIn Jobs, the Diary of a CEO team simply wouldn't exist how it is now. I've probably hired about 90% of our current team through LinkedIn, and I wasn't just looking for CVs, as you've seen in my posts. I've never cared about CVs. I was looking for passion, expertise, dedication, and above all else, kind people, which tends to be really hard to find on job sites typically. But with LinkedIn Jobs, you're not just getting a CV dump. It's like walking into the world's biggest networking event. If you're a small business, I get it. We're juggling a million things, often without the luxury of a HR department. But LinkedIn makes the hiring process intuitive, smooth, and super efficient. They've even rolled out a new feature using AI to craft job descriptions for you for greater efficiency. So here's my tip to you. If you're looking to hire the best professionals, make your life easier and use LinkedIn Jobs. And right now, for our Diary of a CEO community, you can post your job for free at linkedin.com/doac. That's linkedin.com/doac. Terms and conditions apply. Let's talk about ZOE, who you may know, because they're a sponsor of this podcast and I'm an investor in the company. You guys know health is my number one priority. ZOE's growth story has been absolutely incredible so far. They're doing science at a scale that I've never seen before. Because of their members and recent breakthroughs in research, they can now continue to offer the most scientifically advanced gut health test on the market. Previously, the test allowed them to analyze 30 bacteria types in your gut, but now, thanks to new science, they've identified 100 bacteria types. This is a huge step forward and there's nothing else that's available even close to it on the market at all. So to find out more and to get started on your ZOE journey, visit zoe.com/stephen. You can use my exclusive code, CEO10, for 10% off. Don't tell anybody about that, okay? Just for you guys.

13. 1:10:00 – 1:16:41

    Your manager and friend, Chris

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:00

       Moments in our life, I think, help us to see things a little bit more clearly, and especially when they're really, um, significant moments, and one of those moments that I see in your story is in 2012, um, where I think you were 42 years old at the time-

    2. BRBusta Rhymes1:10:16

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:16

       ... and your manager and friend Chris dies.

    4. BRBusta Rhymes1:10:21

       Rest in peace to Chris. Chris was all that I knew. Everything. Everything that I, I learned after Chuck D and Hank Shocklee and them, I learned it with Chris. I learned how to make my money with Chris, my tax brackets changed with Chris, my lawyers changed 'cause Chris, my booking agents changed with Chris, my touring experiences changed with Chris, my ability to tell my mother to quit her job and never had to look back to work for nobody from 1995 to this day. All of that, I did it with Chris.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:59

       That day when you find out that Chris has passed-

    6. BRBusta Rhymes1:11:02

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:02

       ... can you take me to that day?

    8. BRBusta Rhymes1:11:05

       That day was so fucking terrible, bro. Wow. His life changed when this woman came into his life. I'm not gonna dive too much into that part, but I'm definitely gonna say that Chris's life changed, not for the better, when she came around. So once that happened, it started to change the energy amongst the Violator Family, and I really wish ... 'Cause I don't want this to be heard in a way where it seem like I'm shitting on the woman, because I'm not shitting on the woman. I'm acknowledging the reality of the situation, as you can see. I'm not saying nothing bad about the woman. I'm just talking about ... I'm ac- I'm acknowledging a time period where a change transpired in a significant way, and it happened after this woman came around. That's it. Long story short, I think his daughter was, was coming home from college and he, he had to go and meet her at Grand Central Station in Manhattan. So he asked me for a ride to Grand Central Station, and, um, I give him the lift to Grand Central Station, and that's the last day that I saw him. The next morning, I get the call from his assistant that something happened to him, and I'm asking what happened to him, and they just said he hurt his self, but they didn't say, you know, that he was dead. They just was like, "He, he hurt his self." The assistant called this young lady, I forget her name, at the office, and when the young lady answered the phone, we were on a three way-And she's crying and she's screaming on the phone. And she just kept saying, "Chris hurt his self. Chris hurt his self." And the assistant is asking her, "What exactly did he do to himself?" And she said she don't know, he just hurt his self. And then we asked if, if he was dead, and then sh- she said she don't know. So when we got to Chris' home, we couldn't go in the house. And, uh, it wasn't until you saw the coroner van come. And when you saw the van, and then they reversed the van into the driveway to get as close to the door of the house, 'cause it was a downstairs door, and then there was the regular door to go up the stairs and you go in the house from the front. But whatever happened to him, it happened downstairs, 'cause that's where his body was. And they went inside, and they, um, they brought them black bags with them, them body bags, and, uh, that's when it, that's when it got real. That's when it changed, everything changed when you saw, you saw the bags. And, uh, we knew, um... When they came out the, uh, when they came out the basement with the bags and his body was in the bags, that's when you knew Chris was never coming back. So, uh, you know, the crying started, and a lot of arguing started, a lot of threats started. And, uh, my life was going in a whole nother direction after that. And I didn't like it, 'cause I was confused about how to move, and I was lost for a minute, because, uh, I never really had to manage my career without a manager. And he wasn't just a manager, he was my brother. So it got scary for a minute. I couldn't get it together,

14. 1:16:41 – 1:19:10

    Why I stopped doing music for 9 years

    1. BRBusta Rhymes1:16:41

       that's why I didn't put out no record for nine years. (sniffs) And, um, I started to just do different type of business with signing artists and, uh, um, that's when we put out O.T. Genesis and, um, we had some really good success with him (sniffs) and, um, signed a few other artists. You know, this one artist by the name of Stove, Stove God Cooks, and I signed, you know, another young artist by the name of Murda Mook. And I, um, I wasn't happy though with, with just doing it like that, and I just, I didn't feel comfortable putting out music until I got the right support system in place, and I, I couldn't get it together.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:48

       When you say you couldn't get it together, what does that, what does that mean?

    3. BRBusta Rhymes1:17:52

       That means, like-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:53

       Psychologically, you couldn't get it together.

    5. BRBusta Rhymes1:17:55

       Psychologically, I couldn't get it together because I didn't feel like I had a support system that I could believe in enough to make me feel like I am psychologically able to move with the comfort, the confidence, and the support that I know I'm gonna need. And the responsibility of trying to wear all of the hats myself, I was doing it, but I wasn't doing it at the level that Chris Lighty was able to do it.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:24

       And you were grieving at the same time.

    7. BRBusta Rhymes1:18:26

       Absolutely, because I lost my father two years after Chris. The two most important male figures in my life. Chris was gone 2012, I lost my father 2014.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:41

       And you had reconciled with him before?

    9. BRBusta Rhymes1:18:42

       I definitely reconciled with him before he passed. The problem is, I didn't get to enjoy my time with him once we got good, so that was a horrible feeling too, because it's like all of the time that was wasted fucking not getting along was, was stupid. Fucking stupid, you know

15. 1:19:10 – 1:24:34

    Starting to abuse my body into an early grave

    1. BRBusta Rhymes1:19:10

       what I'm saying? That's part of the reason why I started to really, like, get unhealthy and fucked up. I was trying everything to drown the pain and the frustration and the suffering of those losses, by overworking, overdrinking, over smoking weed and cigarettes.And it got so bad that I got to the weight of 340 pounds. I never been that... I- I'm, I'm not even built to be that heavy. It's, it's funny. It's like I look back at certain pictures, and I looked at how overweight I was. I look at my skin. You know, there's certain pictures I had. I had these, like, marks on my face. I, I hate those pictures. Like, I see the darkness in those pictures, yo.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:03

       There's this book called The Body Holds the Score, but the title is just the thing that I, I, I've, I've actually gained the most from. It just says that when there's things going on in our psychology and our mind, the body will show it.

    3. BRBusta Rhymes1:20:14

       Yeah, man.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:15

       We'll eat, we'll drink, we won't sleep, but you'll see it in the body before you see it in the mind. The mind is invisible, obviously.

    5. BRBusta Rhymes1:20:20

       Right.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:21

       The b- the body is the first place to see it, and I was reading through that phase of your life, and you were on sort of breathing machines when you were sleeping and things like sleep, sleep apnea.

    7. BRBusta Rhymes1:20:28

       No, I wasn't on a breathing machine. I had sleep apnea.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:29

       Oh yeah, sleep apnea. Okay.

    9. BRBusta Rhymes1:20:30

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had sleep apnea. I was, um...

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:33

        You drank yourself into a coma at one point.

    11. BRBusta Rhymes1:20:35

        I drank myself into, not a coma. I drank myself into an inability to wake myself up.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:43

        Oh, okay.

    13. BRBusta Rhymes1:20:44

        I had to be wake, woken up by my son and my security in LA. It took like 45 minutes, and we had just come back from hanging out at a club called Poppy's. He sat me down the next day. He was like, "Listen, I don't wanna hurt your feelings 'cause you my father, and I don't even know if I got the strength to say it to you now, but I had a conversation with the security. I need you to listen to them because I'm too scared to tell you how I feel." That's how bad it was. My son ain't never speak to me like that in my life, but I needed to hear it. But he couldn't even say it to me because that's how much he still was trying to protect my feelings. But this is the first time that I knew I really disappointed my son. All that Busta Rhymes shit was cool up until this moment when he saw this shit. And he's been seeing it, but this is when it hits the low. That conversation fucked me up. The next day, the doctor's with the prednisone, and, uh, I went to the doctor. I'm breathing so fucked up that outside of the door, the doctor was like, "Yo, why you breathing like that?" And he wasn't even in the room with me. He's coming in the room. And I said, "Breathing like what?" Because I was doing it this, so, for so long over the last three years that I was, it was starting to sound normal to me. The doctor said, "I'm sending you to the hospital," 'cause he stuck the shit in my throat, and when he saw how big the fucking polyps was, it blocked 90% of my breathing passage. He said if he sends me home, and I take a shower, and the central air system is blowing, and I catch a draft that can lead to me catching a cold, and that last 10% of my breathing gets blocked up because of a swollen gland from a sore throat or some shit, I can die in my sleep that night. He said, "I've gotta call an ambulance for you." I'm in California, LA. He says, "I need you to go right now to UCLA Medical Center into the emergency room, and I'm gonna call the head person at the hospital to have them admit you immediately. You need to go into surgery tomorrow." I said, "I ain't going in no ambulance." He said, "Well then, you have to sign this document that will exemplify me. If you don't listen and something happens and you die bef- bef- between now and when you get to the hospital." I ain't never been spoken to like this in my life. This is when I knew this shit was crazy. My son now, I'm calling him, telling him to meet me at the hospital. We get to the hospital, and I'm in the doctor's office, and they doing all of the pre- preliminary shit before they gotta admit me into the emergency. My son is talking to me, and he tells me, "I thought you was gonna die last night. And I ain't never been this scared, Dad. But I'm, I'm scared you're gonna die. I lost Grandpa already. I can't lose you too. Can you please stop drinking? Can you please stop smoking? Can you please get back to the daddy that I know you to be?" Finished me. At that point, I made up my mind. "Imma get the surgery. When I get the surgery, I'm going to get in shape."

16. 1:24:34 – 1:27:58

    Getting my life back on track

    1. BRBusta Rhymes1:24:34

       I go home. On the way home, Dexter Jackson, bodybuilder competitor, used to compete in Olympia, he became a Mr. Olympia champ. This man pops up in my stories driving in his car in Jacksonville, Florida, and he's spitting the vocals to Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Could See. And then I hit him in the DM, and I said, "Mr. Jackson, I'm a huge fan of you as a professional bodybuilder. Is there any way that we could get on the phone? I need your help." He hits me back. He sends me his number. I call him on the phone. I said, "Thanks for calling me. I salute you, Mr. Jackson. Can we please figure out a way to get me back in shape?" That man said to me, "You sure you ready, Boss?" And I said, "Absolutely." He said, "You gotta come to Jacksonville, and you gotta stay here for 30 days."Tell your girl she can't come, tell your kids you'll see them in 30 days. I need to put you through something for 30 days before we continue this journey. You survive this 30 days, I know you serious. I rented a motherfucking mansion for, like, seven bedrooms. I went and got a cameraman to document it, my meal prep chef, my masseuse, 'cause I knew that that workout was gonna fuck me up every day, and I needed somebody to rub these muscles up. I got my recording engineer, so I didn't need to leave the house. I got an assistant. And that was about it. Stayed in the fucking crib for 30 days. Lost about 27 pounds in 30 days. These dudes that I'm surrounded by, by way of my first bodybuilding competitor trainer, Victor Munoz, and my second primary trainer, the legendary Mr. Olympia himself, Dexter Jackson, I was able to get my shit together, bro. And once I got my health, and once I got my mind and I got my spirit right, and I started to be proud of me, when I looked at me and my kids was looking at me and they would say shit that you could only hear once you did what you needed to do and put in the work you needed to put in, so that it shows. They not gonna say it if it don't look like the way they need to see it, so they can say what they need to say. When that happened, you hearing the right shit, you feeling the right love, that shit was lifting my spirit so much, and then I'ma tell you something. Going through this pandemic was another serious challenge, mentally and emotionally and spiritually. My brothers Pharrell Williams and Swizz Beatz, and big up to Timbaland, too, 'cause all four of them is the executive producers of this new album, Blockbuster.

17. 1:27:58 – 1:30:46

    Your new album

    1. BRBusta Rhymes1:27:58

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:27:58

       Which is out right now.

    3. BRBusta Rhymes1:27:59

       Absolutely. The Blockbuster album is out, and I'm super grateful to everybody that participated in helping this magic happen and come together.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:28:06

       This is, this is the culmination of all of the experience and all of the life stories that we've talked about. But the thing that really stood out to me is you've made the decision to put people on this album who are young, up-and-coming, fresher artists who you haven't really worked with previously, and you've worked with bloody everybody, everybody. But you chose to give these younger artists a platform for some reason.

    5. BRBusta Rhymes1:28:28

       Two reasons. The first reason is, I'm never gonna listen to the narrative of this thing where I would hear it a little more regularly than I actually choose to hear it. I actually don't ever wanna hear it. But it's this bullshit about how the elder statesmen or the older MCs don't really respect what the new guys is doing. That shit is bullshit. At least, speaking for myself and the, the type of artists that I surround myself with, we don't feel like that, and we don't move like that. We encourage that shit, because when we was young artists, we wanted the big dudes to put their arms around us and give us game and school us and teach us shit so we could be better. You know what I'm saying?

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:29:20

       Mm-hmm.

    7. BRBusta Rhymes1:29:20

       Chuck D gave me my name. Big Daddy Kane used to let me come to his crib and ask questions. He put me on his albums. He used to help me learn, let me learn, bring me to shows that he was performing at. Fucking, um, De La Soul, they did the same shit for us. Like, too many MCs gave us the guidance that made me great.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:29:43

       (laughs) .

    9. BRBusta Rhymes1:29:43

       I feel like it's only right that we do the same shit for the next generation of motherfuckers, especially if they dope. And I'm a fan of a lot of these new artists, and I wanna work with them because they still inspiring me to want to go in the studio and stay razor blade sharp with my shit when I gotta do my shit. You know what I'm saying? And I see a lot of them paying homage. There's a lot of motherfuckers walking around with their hairstyles like how I used to wear it with my dreads. There's a lot of motherfuckers that dress and they throw their heavy jewelry on that do it the way I used to do it, and still do it. I just ain't got the dreads no more, but all that other shit, we still doing it. But I just wanna make sure that they, they know we're not only here to give them the answers and the mentorship and the guidance and the information so they could be that much more sharper when they're being creative or when they're sitting in a fucking corporate office negotiating a deal with their lawyers and their managers. But I also want them to know that we love them too. We're fans of what they doing. We see y'all paying homage, and we want y'all to know we paying homage

18. 1:30:46 – 1:34:44

    Passing on the flame to new artists

    1. BRBusta Rhymes1:30:46

       to y'all too.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:30:47

       One of the things I always think is destined to own the future is when the, when both the past and present come together. And I say that with all due respect, because sometimes people s- see projects like this as you passing the torch, but what you're actually doing is sharing the flame.

    3. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:01

       Sharing the fucking flame. You couldn't have said it better. 'Cause I ain't g- I ain't putting the flame out no time soon, man.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:07

       Well, you're th- you're 33 years deep, and it's still, you're still selling out the shows and doing the arenas and killing the game. And I, I'm, I'm so excited by this project beca- for those reasons, because you have, you have two sort of generations coming together to create the future.

    5. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:23

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:23

       And that's what's so exciting. And I have to say, from this conversation, everything you say, and understanding the man that Buster is, puts so much more meaning into the lyrics, into the album, in the record, so-

    7. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:33

       Thank you.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:33

       ... everyone needs to go check this album out-

    9. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:35

       Thank you.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:35

        ... right now, wherever you stream anything, please go check it out, 'cause it's one hell of a project. And you're, y- you know, you talked about that Google CEO who you inspired when he was 10 years old. You are that person, and you still are that person for me.

    11. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:47

        Thank you, king.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:48

        S- so it's such an honor to have to, to get to spend this time with you today.

    13. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:52

        Thank you, brother.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:52

        Um, and-

    15. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:53

        Likewise, man. For real.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:54

        You know?

    17. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:54

        Beautiful.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:55

        I really appreciate it.

    19. BRBusta Rhymes1:31:56

        The questions you ask...The places you went, I didn't expect it. I'm glad I wasn't prepped.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:32:02

        (laughs)

    21. BRBusta Rhymes1:32:03

        I'm glad I wasn't prepped. I'm glad. You know what I'm saying? I just was given a prerequisite of how important you mean in this space, in your platform, and congratulations to the, your evolution and your success with what you've been able to create for yourself-

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:32:20

        Thank you, bro.

    23. BRBusta Rhymes1:32:21

        ... and becoming a successful businessman. I was driven and inspired by the story that I was being told about you, and I was like, "Oh no, fuck that, I gotta come pull up," and I'm taking my time.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:32:32

        I appreciate you for doing this.

    25. BRBusta Rhymes1:32:32

        Because we're gonna do this shit properly. And I've never done an interview in 33 years.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:32:37

        (laughs)

    27. BRBusta Rhymes1:32:37

        Never done an interv- interview this in depth. Number two, I ain't ever sat with nobody this motherfucking long and did an interview in Euro- in Europe in my life neither.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:32:46

        (laughs)

    29. BRBusta Rhymes1:32:47

        So you, you got, you hold the record, bro.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:32:49

        I appreciate you, honestly. It's the, it's one of the greatest honors of me ever getting to do this, is, is hearing that from you, so thank you so much, Busta.

Episode duration: 1:34:44