Cancer Scientist: This Common Daily Diet May Be Feeding Cancer! - Thomas Seyfried

1. 0:00 – 2:42

   Intro

   1. SBSteven Bartlett0:00

      You have an envelope in front of you there that says confidential on the front of it. What is in that envelope?

   2. TSThomas Seyfried0:04

      It's a paper that's under embargo because the world thinks it's gonna be very important, and it's gonna be a lead article in the frontiers in science because th-this is a strategy to manage cancer effectively. And we have a lot of evidence to keep these people alive a hell of a lot longer. We have given hope to the hopeless.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett0:20

      And you have a perspective on treating cancer and other metabolic diseases that others don't have.

   4. TSThomas Seyfried0:25

      Yes, but the problem is the field doesn't understand what I'm saying about the, the origin of cancer. So everything comes back to the mitochondria, and all chronic diseases and cancer are the result of damage to this. And the science is telling us this, but the field of cancer has yet to accept it. That is a tragedy.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett0:42

      Are you pissed off about this?

   6. TSThomas Seyfried0:43

      Well, who wouldn't be? There's one thousand seven hundred people a day in this country dying from cancer. That's seventy an hour, and it gets worse every single year. When is the people gonna wake up?

   7. SBSteven Bartlett0:54

      So give me a prescription of how I should live my life to keep my mitochondria healthy.

   8. TSThomas Seyfried0:58

      So it all comes down to what you do to maintain the health and vitality of the mitochondria that reduce the risk. But we are now in a new environment where we have massive amounts of highly processed carbohydrates, inactivity, emotional stress, poor sleep habits, and you chronically damage this organelle. And then if you look at the domestic dog, cancer is the number one killer of the domestic dog. But wolves in the wild rarely have cancer. But the wolf is out running around eating natural foods, yet the dog is in an apartment somewhere, [laughs] gets a dog walker once a day, right? And the next thing, the dog is obese and full of cancer.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett1:31

      And I wanna give people actionable things that they can think about.

   10. TSThomas Seyfried1:33

       So this is what's really important. This is a bioenergetic roadmap to health. This is what we call the zone of prevention. It's very hard to get cancer or chronic diseases when you're in these zones.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett1:44

       So let's talk about that.

   12. TSThomas Seyfried1:45

       So-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett1:48

       This is super interesting to me. My team give me this report to show me how many of you that watch this show subscribe, and some of you have told us, according to this, that you are unsubscribed from the channel randomly. So favor to ask all of you, please could you check right now if you've hit the subscribe button if you are a regular viewer of the show and you like what we do here. We're approaching quite a significant landmark on this show in terms of a subscriber number. So if there was one simple free thing that you could do to help us, my team, everyone here, to keep this show free, to keep it improving year over year and week over week, it is just to hit that subscribe button and to double-check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll ever ask of you. Do we have a deal? If you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll make sure every single week, every single month, we fight harder and harder and harder and harder to bring you the guests and conversations that you wanna hear. I've stayed true to that promise since the very beginning of The Diary of a CEO, and I will not let you down. Please help us. Really appreciate it. Let's get on with the show. [upbeat music]

2. 2:42 – 3:43

   The New Discovery About Cancer

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:42

      Professor Thomas Seyfried, what is it that you've committed your life to doing, Thomas?

   2. TSThomas Seyfried2:47

      Well, w-we're right now committed our lives to managing cancer effectively, uh, without toxicity, which is based on, based on the science that I and other- others have done in this field.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett3:01

      You have a perspective on treating cancer and other metabolic diseases that others don't have. The mainstream, should I say.

   4. TSThomas Seyfried3:08

      Oh, yeah. Well, mainstream doesn't have it for sure, but it's based on science. I mean, I'm... my work is based on what Otto Warburg, the famous German scientist, said from the nineteen twenties, thirties, and forties. He clearly showed that cancer was a mitochondrial metabolic disease.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett3:25

      What does that mean, mitochondrial metabolic disease?

   6. TSThomas Seyfried3:28

      Okay. It means that the origin of the disease resides in the organelle called the mitochondrion. It's, it's in the cytoplasm of the cell. It used to be called, and still is, the, uh, the powerhouse of the cell. Gives

3. 3:43 – 6:22

   What Role Do Mitochondria Play in Cancer?

   1. TSThomas Seyfried3:43

      the cell the energy.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett3:44

      I think we have a mitochondria. Could one of my team bring in a mitochondria?

   3. TSThomas Seyfried3:47

      Well, this is... You have a m- a mitochondrion here. Oh, here we go.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett3:51

      You've got one each here.

   5. TSThomas Seyfried3:52

      Yeah. Well, see, this is the little organelle that you see. It, it looks like a bean shape, but it's actually a tubular network. These are tubes.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett4:01

      Ah.

   7. TSThomas Seyfried4:01

      And they respond dynamically inside the cell to, uh, both internal, uh, activities as well as external activities. So you have to realize that at the time of conception, uh, all of the mitochondria for the developing embryo h- are in the cytoplasm from the mother.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett4:21

      The cytoplasm.

   9. TSThomas Seyfried4:22

      The mitochondria are not in the nucleus. They're in the cytosol.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett4:26

       Oh, outside of it.

   11. TSThomas Seyfried4:26

       Uh, outside of the nuc- but in the cell body itself. So all of the mitochondria, they determine our destiny. They will determine how long you will live on the planet if, if you don't have an unfortunate accident or something like this. They have an expiration date. Different species die at different times. You don't find people living four hundred years. Y- y- in mice live about two and a half years. Elephants live, you know, as long as we do or whatever. But that's all determined by this organelle. So you can see I have wrinkles and this kind of thing. This is from living on the planet, and this is from wear and tear on this organelle, which allows us to make energy efficiently.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett5:05

       Mm-hmm.

   13. TSThomas Seyfried5:05

       So when this organelle starts to falter with age, uh, you die. You die from old age. This organelle has to be protected and respected if you would like to live a normal lifespan. But in diets and lifestyles and way we are today, we, we, we damage this organelle, and this organelle then can present itself damage to this organelle, which is a tubular network inside the cell. But let me say something else. It not only controls the internal environment of the cell, it also controls the neighboring cells, the liver neighborhood, the lung neighborhood, the colon neighborhood, the brain neighborhood, the glial neighborhood, the neuron neighborhood, but they all come from the same origin in that cytoplasm, and they determine the overall metabolic health of your body. It's a systemic. They communicate, uh, with each other across cells, across tissues. I'll tell you, this organelle controls a lot of what goes, what that nucleus does. It tells the cell when to divide It tells the cell, cell when to slow down

   14. SBSteven Bartlett6:09

       It's kind of like a brain, but also like an engine room.

   15. TSThomas Seyfried6:12

       It's kind of like that. Certainly, certainly the brain part of it is really mysterious, uh, in the sense of, of how it controls the destiny of the cell and

4. 6:22 – 8:12

   How Damaged Mitochondria Cause Cancer

   1. TSThomas Seyfried6:22

      the body.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett6:23

      So sickness. Sickness, disease, cancer. What do we know about the role that this little thing plays in these chronic diseases and illnesses and cancers that so many people suffer with?

   3. TSThomas Seyfried6:34

      Yeah. Well, this is the organelle that becomes damaged. Um, and it can be damaged in many, many different ways. Uh, for cancer, is what we have spent a lot of our time on, and now we've moved into the whole chronic disease issue because each, each chronic disease can have different manifestations of ill health to the mitochondria in a particular population of cells. But in the case of cancer, which is what we call the most serious of the chronic diseases, creating the most trauma, uh, the most emotional distress. But we have clearly shown based on, on many, many works that any m-multiple things from our environment can damage this organelle in a particular population of cells in a particular organ. For example, when you talk about carcinogens, it's a chemical that causes cancer. How does that chemical cause cancer? It damages the proteins and the lipids. These little squiggles are delicate internal membranes. They, they contain the proteins and the lipids that allows us to generate energy when we breathe. Okay, you're breathing, I'm breathing. W- I take in oxygen. Oxygen serves as a ki- a, a final acceptor for electrons that allows ATP, uh, to come out of this little-- And don't forget, it's a tubular network and-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett8:01

      And ATP is the energy currency

   5. TSThomas Seyfried8:02

      It's the chemical energy currency. It allows us to-- enzymes to work. Allow, al-allows all the metabolic machinery inside of a cell to work

5. 8:12 – 15:00

   ATP & Fermentation: How Your Cells Make Energy

   1. TSThomas Seyfried8:12

      optimally.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett8:13

      So just to play this back to you so I know I'm clear. Oxygen comes in 'cause I breathe in.

   3. TSThomas Seyfried8:16

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett8:16

      I then eat food. In, in that mitochondria, it does a process and it spits out ATP as the energy.

   5. TSThomas Seyfried8:23

      Well, a-and, and the waste products of a good energy metabolism would be CO2 and water. So when we burn gasoline in an engine of a car, we break down the octane, the carbon hydrogen bonds in an octane, and it, and it-- we have an internal explosion that drives pistons. Okay, the exhaust is a lot of waste products, uh, from breaking down. The mito-- Th-that we're doing the same thing inside the cell. We're combusting carbon hydrogen bonds, and that combustion of carbon hydrogen bonds is a graded process, so it's not an immediate explosion. It's a, it's a-- You're, you're breaking down the carbon hydrogen bonds in a very precise way, producing ATP, which then drives the entire machinery of the neurons and the rest of the body.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett9:05

      Mm-hmm.

   7. TSThomas Seyfried9:06

      It can respond dramatically to energetic stress, emotional stress. Anyway, I gave you an example of a carcinogen. Uh, uh, intermittent hypoxia, like people who have sleep apnea, they stop breathing for thirty seconds or more in that general, and then they-- That creates ROS, R-O-S, and that's what carcinogens do, ROS. These are called reactive oxygen species. They damage those delicate membranes. And then what happens if it's too acute, too stressful, the whole cell will die. The cell loses its energy, and we get, uh, apoptosis or necrosis, cell death. But if it's gradual, chronic, over years, months, years, this organelle loses its ability to produce sufficient energy. But the, the cell compensates, interestingly enough, by using these ancient pathways, heirlooms of our evolutionary past. So, um, because all life on the planet evolved in an oxygen-- without oxygen in the dark, uh, these cells grew like crazy. There was no-- There were single cells. They got unbridled proliferation and all this kind of stuff. They didn't have mitochondria. They had bacteria. And the bacteria which this organelle came from was a fusion between one cell, uh, that had a nucleus and, and was, w-was fermenting through the cytoplasm, and this bacteria, which is the mitochondria, came in. And now you have two different forms of energy. You have, um, the energy in the cytoplasm, the ancient fermentation, and then you have this new form which can take in oxygen and generate energy much, much more efficiently than the heirloomic. Listen, one of our big discoveries, if you can believe it. But you see that space in the middle there?

   8. SBSteven Bartlett10:59

      Yeah.

   9. TSThomas Seyfried11:00

      That's called the matrix, and that's where the Krebs cycle, the TCA cycle, which breaks down the food that we eat. But they have an ancient part of a fermentation mechanism inside because before oxygen came, every-- all life forms were fermenters. They, they produced energy without oxygen because there was no oxygen. We had to wait for those bacteria to make oxygen through a photosynthetic process. But all organisms were fermenters in the beginning. After this organelle came in and was able to take in oxygen, make energy really, really quick. But in that matrix they have a, a, in the cycle, there's a little pathway there that makes energy without oxygen from the evolutionary past. So we have it in the cytoplasm of the cell because they can use-- they can ferment in the cytoplasm. But th-this organ-- Our big discovery with the work of, of Christos Tsoumpopoulos from Met- Semmelweis University, he's the world leader on that little pathway. When this organelle becomes impaired, these ancient pathways of energy through fermentation arise. Okay? They, they try to replace the lost energy from the efficiency of this organelle. That space starts throwing out ATP From glutamine. It's a-another f- a fermentation fuel, and, and i-it's making, [chuckles] it's making ancient energy in the sophisticated organelle that was th- that was d- [chuckles] that, uh, that evolved to make efficient energy. So let me, let me tell you. So you get-- You asked me what about damaging this organelle and what happens? If the damage to oxidative phosphorylation-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett12:35

       What does that mean?

   11. TSThomas Seyfried12:36

       Which means energy through oxygen-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett12:38

       Mm-hmm

   13. TSThomas Seyfried12:38

       ... is too acute, the cell will die. Cyanide i-is a, a perfect example of this. You take a mouse or a rat or a person and you drink Kool-Aid, the cyanide-laced Kool-Aid. You die because what happens is that cyanide binds to the protein that's going to, um, um, use oxygen for energy, and ev- the whole system shuts down.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett13:02

       Like suffocates you basically.

   15. TSThomas Seyfried13:03

       Yeah, you die inc- instantly. Um, and there are other things that can kill, uh, can kill, uh, quickly, azide and a variety of other chemicals. But for chronic diseases, it's usually, uh, not an acute stress on this organelle. It's a, it's a chronic stress. And in cancer, what happens in a particular tissue, whether it's, um, bone, lung, bladder, brain, they gradually compensate with these ancient fermentation pathways. So, so th-this thing, this organelle signals to the nucleus, "I'm suffoca- I'm not getting enough energy." Um, so the nucleus turns on the transporters on the surface of the cell to bring in fuels that will dr- elevate energy through what we call, uh, oxygen-independent mechanisms. This is an oxygen-dependent organelle. This gets most of its energy because we breathe. All of our cells are using oxygen, and the CO2 that we're blowing out and the water that will be collected in the form of urine when you mi-well, put, I mean, uh, other, uh, m- waste products in there, that's efficient metabolic homeostasis. This organelle makes not only the cell, but the whole body in a state of, of metabolic homeostasis, where all systems are working at optimal efficiency. But with chronic disruption, uh, smoking, uh, lack of exercise, you can go right down the list of all of the different things that can elicit ca- uh, cancer. Any kind of carcinogens, microplastics, forever chemicals, uh, uh, uh, glyphosate, and any of these kinds of things that would chronically damage, uh, the ability of this organelle to produce energy. Viruses, oncogenic viruses, inflammation. You have chronic inflammation. Any of those things damage this, the sophisticated ability of this organelle to produce sufficient energy. That's why, that's why, um, uh, the oncogenic paradox, which we solved-

6. 15:00 – 20:19

   The Oncogenic Paradox Finally Explained

   1. SBSteven Bartlett15:00

      What's the oncogenic paradox?

   2. TSThomas Seyfried15:01

      That was the paradox that was first put out by Albert Szent-Györgyi, a Hungarian, uh, scientist who received the Nobel Prize, I think, for, for vitamin C. He said, he said he was very interested in cancer and living systems. He said there's a paradox. He said, "W-we know multiple things i-in the environment can elicit cancer. We've identified these: oncogenic viruses, chronic inflammation, carcinogens, intermittent hypoxia, rare, rare germline mutations." He said, "We don't understand the common pathophysiological mechanism by which any of those provocative agents would elicit dysregulated cell growth, which is cancer." When you talk about cancer, what appears? What is cancer? It's cell division out of control. It's dysregulated cell growth. This organelle determines when cells should divide and when they should not divide. It regulates the destiny of the cell. So what happens when this organelle becomes chronically impaired? It falls back on these ancient pathways, these or-or-or these or, um, uh, pathways that existed before oxygen came into the environment, where all the cells were dysregulated in the growth because they didn't have this regulatory system, which is the mitochondria coming from a, from a bacteria.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett16:23

      So, so let me play that back to you in a way just so I, you know, make sure I understand.

   4. TSThomas Seyfried16:26

      I, I, I know it can be kinda deep.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett16:27

      Okay, so in this mitochondria here that I have in front of me, there is an ancient, um, because this came from the fus-

   6. TSThomas Seyfried16:35

      A bacteria

   7. SBSteven Bartlett16:36

      ... a fusion of bacterias a long, long time ago.

   8. TSThomas Seyfried16:39

      Yeah, about-

   9. SBSteven Bartlett16:39

      That old bacteria-

   10. TSThomas Seyfried16:40

       About, uh, several billion years ago

   11. SBSteven Bartlett16:42

       ... used to be very selfish and just think about itself. It used to grow on its own and didn't communicate with anybody, had its own way of growing and multiplying that was really not, um, in cohesion with anything else. That is still in there somewhere, and although now in its modern form, because there's been that fusion, it grows thinking about the wider organism. Um, when it becomes, uh, damaged, it falls back on that old selfish way of growing and someti- and that's kind of what can cause cancers. So if you, if there's stresses on this, which could be all the carci- carcinogenic things you described, then sometimes this falls back on that prehistoric, selfish way of growing, where it doesn't think about the wider organism.

   12. TSThomas Seyfried17:25

       It's close. Um, uh, um, i-in the sense of thinking, we don't know about that.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett17:31

       Okay.

   14. TSThomas Seyfried17:31

       We just know the consequences of what happens when it falls back on those ancient pathways. Now, here's the situation. People knew from Wa- or Otto Warburg said cancer is a energy problem in the cell. This-- Why would the cells start to ferment and produce a massive amount of fermentation waste product, which is lactic acid? Even in the presence of oxygen, 100% oxygen, they're still fermenting. Why? That shouldn't happen. Uh, when you and I hold our breath or have a heart attack, let me tell you something. This is really remarkable, and this is another piece of information that got us on this whole thing. When people have heart attacks, uh, they stop breathing. The heart seizes. Okay, the bloodstream immediately fills with these fermentation waste products, which are lactic acid, and the other one, which we now know is succinic acid. Okay. Wow. These two waste products. Now, if you don't start breathing, in a short period of time, you're gonna be dead.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett18:34

       Mm-hmm.

   16. TSThomas Seyfried18:35

       And you, and what, you die because the neurons in your brain cannot sustain this kind of fermentation energy for very long. As soon as you... The heart, you, you give them cardiac massage and whatever, the guy's heart starts beating again. The lac- the waste products of lactic acid and succinic acid go away. They disappear because you're breathing now. You don't need to ferment when you have oxygen in the environment, and it's, and the mitochondria can, can utilize the oxygen in the environment. Cancer cells to Warburg said, "It's the weirdest thing. These cancer cells, um, continue to ferment even in 100% of oxygen. Why are they doing that?" And he speculated that this organelle was damaged, irre- irreversible damage to the organelle happened in these cancer cells. He didn't have an electron microscope at the time. He didn't have the sophisticated tools that we have today, so he projected that all on biochemistry. At that time, he was a biochemist, and he said, "You don't, should not produce fermentation if you have oxy- oxygen should shut that off, and these guys should return to a normal metabolic homeostasis." And he said, "That's because there's something irrepa- irre- irreversibly damaged in this organelle." So a lot of people attacked him, and they said, "Oh, we don't have any evidence for that." Here, here's the beautiful thing. Some cancer cells continue to take in oxygen and make ATP, therefore, Warburg must be wrong. Uh-huh. [chuckles] We showed that that-- We showed the cancer cell takes in oxygen, but it's not making energy through ATP in any great amount. It's using it for ROS react- these d- radicals that further damage and cause the DNA mutations that everybody is chasing. It's all downstream effects

7. 20:19 – 25:19

   Ghost Mitochondria: Cancer Under the Microscope

   1. TSThomas Seyfried20:19

      of damage. And now-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett20:20

      So what does this, what does this mean in simple terms? 'Cause I'm, I'm aware a lot of my viewers-

   3. TSThomas Seyfried20:22

      Well, it m- it means I say, "Okay, so, so I have dysregulated cell growth." That's ultimately what the problem we're dealing with.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett20:29

      Mm-hmm.

   5. TSThomas Seyfried20:30

      We can't control how these cells are dividing. We're throwing all kinds of crazy stuff at them, trying to poison or radiate, surgically remove them. We're trying to do everything to stop this dysregulated cell growth.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett20:40

      Mm-hmm.

   7. TSThomas Seyfried20:41

      So when we look at this organelle under the micro- under the electron microscope, we find these cristae are often missing. You have what they call ghost mitochondria. You got the shell, but nothing inside. Or if they're inside, they're all d- d- deformed. So we know there's a foundational principle in biology. Structure determines function. If the structure is abnormal, the function will be abnormal. This is known to all biologists except oncologists. They don't seem to understand that.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett21:07

      What's an oncologist?

   9. TSThomas Seyfried21:08

      Those are the people who study cancer. [laughs]

   10. SBSteven Bartlett21:11

       So what are you then?

   11. TSThomas Seyfried21:12

       I'm a biologist.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett21:14

       You're a biologist?

   13. TSThomas Seyfried21:14

       So, yeah. I mean, when we know that if the organelle is damaged, you're not gonna be able to produce energy efficiently by oxidative phosphorylation, okay?

   14. SBSteven Bartlett21:23

       I think you're a bit further down the road, Thomas, than a lot of my viewers are. For me, hearing that there's this energy engine in my cells that, and there's tr- trillions of them or billions of them, and they also communicate with each other, and when this becomes stressed or hurt or damaged because of lifestyle choices that I make, energy production and efficiency will change, and that could cause this to die or malfunction in some way. That is, is, for me, I go, "I've got it."

   15. TSThomas Seyfried21:49

       Okay.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett21:50

       That's it.

   17. TSThomas Seyfried21:50

       Well, that's a major step forward.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett21:52

       And then I get-

   19. TSThomas Seyfried21:52

       Now we build upon that.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett21:53

       Yes.

   21. TSThomas Seyfried21:54

       Now we build upon that. Okay? So, so here's the situation. We've discussed cancer cells, all of them that we have ever looked at have defects in the number, structure, and function of that organelle. Okay? I have looked at-- I published that big paper where I spent, uh, over a year of my time going through the anci- the, well, the early electron microscopy literature. War- uh, Warburg didn't have that opportunity because that technology was not there for him, so he speculated that based on the biochemistry. But I went back, and I looked at these, um, electron micrographs of mitochondria in various cancers, and they're all damaged. There is few of them that ris- cristae are gone. I worked with some of the best like, uh, Aris- Arismendy Murrillo, uh, who was a world leader in beautiful electron microscopy of, of cancer cells. And you can see and, and, and all the damage, uh, under his magnificently beautiful, and one, we have a couple of papers. But let me tell you something else, Steven. In the cytoplasm, these organelles are also in contact with other cellular membranes like the endoplasmic reticulum. There's a lot of we call organelles inside a cell. You have the nucleus. You have the mitochondrion. You, you, you have lysosomes. There is intimate contacts between some of the other membranes, mitochondrial associated membranes m- um, we see, and they're also abnormal when you look at them under the electron microscope.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett23:19

       The ones it's talking to are abnormal?

   23. TSThomas Seyfried23:21

       Yeah, the ones you can see. The, the mitochondria are abnormal, and the membranes that contact them are abnormal.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett23:25

       Okay.

   25. TSThomas Seyfried23:26

       And that intimate contact, uh, I'll get into the calcium signaling a little bit later, which controls the destiny of the cell. Why the cell is growing out of control? Well, first of all, it's fermenting, okay? That means it's getting energy from sources other than oxidative phosphorylation. You can take a cancer cell and, and treat it with cyanide or azide or in, uh, absence of, and it's still living. It's still growing because it's not using-

   26. SBSteven Bartlett23:50

       The oxygen pathway

   27. TSThomas Seyfried23:51

       ... they're not using the oxygen, falling back on, on, on oxygen independent mechanisms, which are called fermentation.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett23:58

       So I understand that to be that there's a malfunction in the mitochondria, which means that it no longer uses its oxygen pathway necessarily.

   29. TSThomas Seyfried24:05

       In, in as sufficiently as it should. There's always some residual level.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett24:08

       And it finds another way to make the energy, which is how it survives.
8. 25:19 – 26:32

   Glucose & Glutamine: The Fuels That Feed Cancer

   1. SBSteven Bartlett25:19

      What is glutamine?

   2. TSThomas Seyfried25:20

      It's an amino acid. Okay. Pro-

   3. SBSteven Bartlett25:22

      Which we make from food.

   4. TSThomas Seyfried25:23

      Yeah. Whi- which we can make from food, true, or they're called essential and non-essential amino acids. Essentials are from, that we must eat. We must have certain foods that provide these. Glutamine is considered a non-essential amino acid. It's an essential amino acid biochemically called non-essential-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett25:39

      [chuckles]

   6. TSThomas Seyfried25:39

      ... because we can make it from sugar. But basically, it's the most abundant amino acid in our body.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett25:45

      I think I get it now.

   8. TSThomas Seyfried25:47

      Uh, okay. Feed me back. Tell me, let me, let me test you. [paper rustles]

   9. SBSteven Bartlett25:50

      There should be a button just down below here, and if it says "subscribed" you're already subscribed. If it says "subscribe," that means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please could you do us a favor and hit that button? It helps the show more than you know, and according to the algorithm, you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button. Thank you so much. [paper rustles] When we fall, uh, the mitochondria falls to that prehistoric pathway where it starts making energy in a really, really inefficient way without using oxygen in the same way.

   10. TSThomas Seyfried26:18

       Yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett26:18

       It starts relying now on glucose and glutamine, um, to produce that energy, which is a much less efficient source of energy, so it gets a bit more greedy and it needs much more to make the same amount of ATP, which is energy.

   12. TSThomas Seyfried26:30

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett26:30

       So these, a cancer cell

9. 26:32 – 29:25

   Why Do Children & Babies Get Cancer?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett26:32

      can be very, very greedy. It's not responding to oxygen in the same way, and they're, they're a bit more selfish. They start, they start sort of multiplying without thought of the broader organism.

   2. TSThomas Seyfried26:41

      Yes. Yes.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett26:43

      So the question I have is w- how, how does this happen?

   4. TSThomas Seyfried26:46

      How does this c-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett26:47

      Malfunctioning of the mi- mito- what is it that I've done?

   6. TSThomas Seyfried26:49

      Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett26:49

      You know why I wanna ask this question as well?

   8. TSThomas Seyfried26:50

      Yeah. Okay. Well, I, I... Okay.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett26:51

      It's because children can get these cancers-

   10. TSThomas Seyfried26:54

       Right

   11. SBSteven Bartlett26:54

       ... or a, a, a, a ninety-year-old can get the cancer.

   12. TSThomas Seyfried26:56

       Yeah.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett26:57

       And it doesn't appear to me that a three-year-old ha- has necessarily made life choices yet that could impact-

   14. TSThomas Seyfried27:02

       But as I said, when you consider forever chemicals, uh, that are in the environment, uh, things that we have, that we use in our technologically advanced societies can get through the placental wall and get these into the chi- into these children's, uh, organs. Um, y- you know, you have to put it together. We, u- usually it's a, a constellation of things because don't forget, I said carcinogens. Some of these carcinogens are fat soluble. Some of these carcinogens can get in and damage those, uh, during early stages of development. People always say, "How do you explain brain cancer i, i- i- in a, in a six-month-old baby?" Okay. I- it, what, what did he, he, what, what, he, he wasn't smoking and drinking and partying all the time. But, but his, the mitochondria in a population of cells in his brain became damaged, and that damage then led to this dysregulated cell growth. Because the organelle controls when cells should divide and not divide. And then, uh, and then where's the energy coming from? How do you, how do you take a highly sophisticated piece of an organelle and making energy so incredibly efficient? And now we're using energy w- w- so, uh, this organelle signals to the nucleus, called mitochondrial stress respon- retrograde signaling. The nucleus acts as a respondent to what this organelle wants. So the nucleus then oncogenes, which, that you've heard a lot about, they open the floodgates to bring in the glucose and glutamine that allow the cell to grow in a dysregulated way. So th- we've, as you said, they go back to these ancient fermentation pathways where there was no regulation because this organelle was not part of the problem.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett28:41

       So what if-

   16. TSThomas Seyfried28:41

       Was not part of the situation.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett28:42

       So what-

   18. TSThomas Seyfried28:42

       The regulation of that.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett28:43

       So is there, uh, what are the lifestyle factors that are causing this to, or drastically increasing the probability of this happening?

   20. TSThomas Seyfried28:48

       It's not necessarily what the person did or all cases. It's what the person was exposed to-

   21. SBSteven Bartlett28:56

       Yeah

   22. TSThomas Seyfried28:56

       ... uh, that could have elicited this. That's the oncogenic paradox. So, uh, we have shown, uh, that inflammation produces these cytokines. When you have an inflammatory heat in inflammation, they d- they damage the ability of this organelle to make energy efficiently. Chronic inflammation is known to be a risk factor for cancer. Chronic inflammation, intermittent hypoxia, carcinogens.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett29:23

       What's intermittent hypoxia?

10. 29:25 – 32:55

    Why Wealthy Countries Have More Cancer

    1. TSThomas Seyfried29:25

       Uh, just like the sleep apnea, that kind of thing.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett29:27

       Oh, okay.

    3. TSThomas Seyfried29:27

       W- W- Warburg had clearly shown that intermittent hypoxia on cells would damage the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation, leading to a compensatory fermentation. So you have to compensate, 'cause let me tell you, if you don't compensate, you're dead. The cell, the, I mean, the cell dies.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett29:44

       When we look at the populations around the world that have the most prevalence of cancer, it doesn't appear to be some of the countries like Niger, Gambia, Nepal consistently rank at the very bottom for cancer, cancer incidence. Conversely, high income countries like Australia, New Zealand, and the United States have the highest rates of cancer. Why is that?

    5. TSThomas Seyfried30:09

       It's because of our, um, technology. Uh, we are still Paleolithic man and, uh, our biology has allowed us to store energy efficiently, uh- Because of times of famine. We are now in a new environment where we have massive amounts of highly processed carbohydrates, inactivity, emotional stress. We have poor sleep habits. You, you pile all those together with availabil-- uh, the exposure to carcinogens and whatever, and you chronically damage this organelle. And, uh, uh, in some organs, uh, you can get breast cancer. If it's a lung, if it's a-- Whatever it is, that organelle becomes chronically damaged in some populations of cells in a particular, uh, in a particular organ, and, and you can elicit dysregulated cell growth as the result of that. You know, what I find is in, in that-- in, in the paper that we have with the chart, uh, if you can keep your mitochondria healthy-- 'Cause don't forget Paleolithic man, our ancestors from five hundred thousand years ago, uh, or modern men, like you said, in these countries, living according to traditional ways with minimal inf-interference from modern diet and lifestyle issues, have lower amount of cancer in general. And this is what Albert Schweitzer found, the f-f-famous humanitarian physician. He was specifically looking for cancer in African tribes, and he said, remarkably, it's extremely low. What, what are these guys doing where Western society has a, has a lot of cancer and these Africans have-- living, living according to the traditional ways? So they have a lot of exercise. They're eating all organic foods. Uh, they're not under the same kind of stress or exposure to chemicals that, uh, modern societies have. And you find out you have very low cancer. Like, for example, uh, dogs are all evolved from the wolf. Uh, wolves in the wild rarely have cancer. The domestic dog, cancer is the number one killer of the domestic dog. What is the dog doing that the wolf? The wolf is out running around eating natural foods. The dog, [chuckles] the dog is in an apartment somewhere, gets a dog walker once a day, right? And the next thing, the dog, dog is obese and full of cancer. So it all, it all comes down to what, what you do to maintain the health and vitality of the mitochondria that reduce the risk. And that's what this chart I'll show you has. Would reduce the risk of damaging this chronically, okay? So that can explain, in large part, why modern societies are struggling with chronic diseases. Not only cancer, we have dia-- type 2 diabetes. We have obesity. We-- high blood pressure. We, we have a whole, uh, even neuropsychiatric problems. If you can protect and keep this organelle healthy, you reduce risk.

11. 32:55 – 37:58

    Is Cancer Genetic?

    1. TSThomas Seyfried32:55

       Now, people say, "Well, cancer has to be genetic because we have inherited genes that put us at higher risk," like the BRCA1 for breast cancer and the Leaf Rameni for a variety of other cancers. Our paper in this pile done by Bob Kaplan, uh, he went through, uh, and looked at all the genetic risk factors.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett33:14

       Which paper is it?

    3. TSThomas Seyfried33:15

       Um, it's one of the ones published in Oncology. But none of these mutations are a hundred percent penetrant, meaning that they're secondary risk factors. A primary risk factor would be every time that mutation is there, a hundred percent of the people. 'Cause I work in Tay-Sachs disease. I work in, in more errors of metabolism. Those mutations are a hundred percent responsible for that condition. There's no gene mutation that's a hundred percent pene-- You have that gene, you're gonna a hundred percent get cancer. Uh, most of them are, are, uh, um, are what they call incompletely penetrant.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett33:45

       So what does that tell us about the nature of-

    5. TSThomas Seyfried33:47

       Well, it tell-- And then we went back. What Bob did is he went back and he looked at what every one of those gene mutations in some way disturbs the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation in that organelle.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett34:00

       In the mitochondria.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried34:00

       In the mitochondria. We, we looked at-- We have all the evidence, all the, the risk fac-- all the genetic-- Just, uh, just the front page there. I wasn't gonna show you the hard data, but you got it [laughs] . So anyway, the, uh, all of them damage this, the efficiency of energy through, through, through this organelle. So that's like carcinogens. That's like, um, viral infections. The viruses that onc-- like hepatoma and papilloma, they, they, their, their products will go in here and damage it, or they will replicate inside this organelle, screwing up the efficiency, causing a compensatory fermentation, causing the dysregulated cell growth through abnormal calcium signaling, causing cells to no longer co-- uh, be responsive to their neighbors. Ca-- Is that clear? If I can make you understand this, we can make everybody understand this.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett34:48

       Yeah. So the, the reason I, uh, spend a lot of time asking why and asking for clarification is because when I do this show, I then go out into the real world and I meet the people that listen.

    9. TSThomas Seyfried34:57

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett34:58

        And one of the groups of people that listens are young offenders. And when I went and visited them, I pointed at the episodes that I thought would help them.

    11. TSThomas Seyfried35:04

        Yeah.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett35:04

        And a young of-- one of the young offenders said to me, "I can't listen to that episode 'cause you-- the words you used were too big." And I remember thinking to myself-

    13. TSThomas Seyfried35:10

        Okay. Uh, that, that I get that all the time. But guess what? Now we have AI, and you can take this statements and put it into AI right on the-- and it'll, and it'll, it'll s-- it'll dumb it down for you.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett35:23

        Mm-hmm.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried35:23

        So, so that's a tool that we previously did not have.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett35:27

        Mm-hmm.

    17. TSThomas Seyfried35:27

        So, so I use that all the time. I said, "When you hear me speak like this, don't think I'm arrogant. Don't think I'm just..." I, I, I-- These are the terms that we use when you're part of the academy.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett35:36

        Yeah.

    19. TSThomas Seyfried35:37

        Okay? But we can take those terms now, and AI can do a wonderful job in, in, in synthesizing. "Oh, yeah, I know what he's talking about now." But without that tool, then it becomes like you said, "Well, I can't understand anything."

    20. SBSteven Bartlett35:48

        Mm-hmm. [page flips] I've got sixty seconds, and I'm gonna show you how much I can get done because of our sponsor called Wispr Flow. And for those of you that don't know what it is, it's a business I invested in that turns your speech into text in any app or device. I'm gonna post into our Slack channel, which rewards whichever team member conducted the most experiments this week. Hi, everyone. Here is this week's experimenter of the week. Congratulations to The Diary of a CEO trailer team, which is Ant, Liv, Dom, and Cam. You guys have won. Okay, now I'm gonna open Gmail. So here is one of our founders on an email chain that I wanna connect my team with. All I have to say is, "Add my team's emails," and Wispr will do exactly that. Now a quick message to Juan, who does my schedule every single week. Hey, Juan. Can I record on Wednesday at two p- Actually, no. Do you know what? Let's record at three PM on Wednesday Wispr Flow is four times faster than typing, and it is incredibly easy to use. So if you wanna give it a go, all you have to do is head to wisprflow.ai/steven to download it today. If you know me, and if you've listened to this podcast before, you'll know how obsessed I am with sleep. I've been on a bit of a journey with sleep. I see it as the single most important thing that I'm-- have the privilege of having control over, and that's exactly what our sponsor, Eight Sleep, are. It's a very, very intelligent piece of material to sleep on. Here's what the Eight Sleep pod does. It monitors your body while you're sleeping, and with their AI, it adjusts the temperature for you using billions and billions and billions of hours of sleep data. And members have reported up to a thirty-four percent deeper sleep and falling asleep up to forty-four percent faster. Me and my fiancée, Melanie, sleep on different parts of the bed, and it adjusts my part of the bed to my body and her part of the bed to her body. So if you wanna learn more about this pod, go to eightsleep.com/stephen. Big opportunity. I am not kidding. Give it a try. I really wanna just make sure I tick off the box of, um, c-cause factors. So you mentioned stress.

    21. TSThomas Seyfried37:52

        Mm.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett37:53

        You mentioned sleep.

    23. TSThomas Seyfried37:54

        Mm.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett37:55

        I currently don't have cancer, as far as I'm aware, God forbid.

12. 37:58 – 40:23

    The Prescription: The Glucose Ketone Index

    1. SBSteven Bartlett37:58

       Um, but I, but I wanna do everything I can to prevent the probability.

    2. TSThomas Seyfried38:01

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett38:02

       And I-- from what I've understood, that means protecting my mitochondrial function-

    4. TSThomas Seyfried38:06

       Yes

    5. SBSteven Bartlett38:06

       ... by living a lifestyle where I'm not creating this sort of, like, crazy oxidative stress-

    6. TSThomas Seyfried38:10

       Yes

    7. SBSteven Bartlett38:11

       ... on the mitochondria.

    8. TSThomas Seyfried38:11

       Right.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett38:12

       So w-- give me a prescription of how I should live my life to keep my mitochondria healthy.

    10. TSThomas Seyfried38:16

        Well, that's why we developed the Glucose Kinda-- Ketone Index Calculator, the first biomarker tool that can allow people to know the level of health of their mitochondria. Because, um, when you shift from carbohydrate fuel to lip-lipid fuel-

    11. SBSteven Bartlett38:31

        What's lipid fuel?

    12. TSThomas Seyfried38:32

        Fat.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett38:34

        So ketones?

    14. TSThomas Seyfried38:35

        Ketones are a water-soluble breakdown product of fatty acids.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett38:39

        Mm-hmm.

    16. TSThomas Seyfried38:39

        Okay? So we store a-adipose tissue. We store fat.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett38:43

        Which is the belly fat?

    18. TSThomas Seyfried38:45

        Uh, a-all over. We have-

    19. SBSteven Bartlett38:46

        Yeah

    20. TSThomas Seyfried38:46

        ... fat on our-

    21. SBSteven Bartlett38:47

        On the outside.

    22. TSThomas Seyfried38:48

        Yeah. So on the outside. That was there because, as a species, we had to survive in the most harsh environments, and we were-- uh, um, food was not always there, so we had to survive all kinds of famine, all kinds of absence of food. Our bodies are so-- The, um, our m-- It's a machine that was honed over millions of years to be super efficient. So glucose is gold. Sugar. Okay? You either burn it or you can store it as fat. Okay? That's, that's the key. But when you have-- you're not bringing in sugar, that stored fat now moves into the bloodstream, goes to the liver. It's like taking a branch and putting it in a chopper, and you outcome these little soluble ketone bodies. They're w-- breakdown products of long-chain fatty acids. They can replace sugar for the brain, for the muscles, for most other cells in the body, except erythrocytes. But they can replace, they can replace the energy of glucose. Okay? So, uh, and that's how we evolved. But we're now in an environment where we have massive amounts of highly processed carbohydrates, and we, uh, uh, uh, we don't wanna pee them out unless you have diabetes or something, so we store them as fat.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett40:03

        Mm.

    24. TSThomas Seyfried40:03

        So we have an obesity epidemic as the result of our evolutionary ability to store energy, which kept us alive as a species. Because if we were unable to store the fat in five hundred thousand, we would've all been extinct. You and I, this conversation would never exist.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett40:17

        Mm-hmm.

    26. TSThomas Seyfried40:17

        We would never have existed as a species, except for our ability to store energy, and we burn energy

13. 40:23 – 44:54

    How Stress & Poor Sleep Fuel Cancer

    1. TSThomas Seyfried40:23

       efficiently in these organelles. So this is all a very highly efficient machine. So when we lose that ability, uh, when we have so much energy in the environment, stress and no exercise, all this, we store more and more fat. We produce an, uh, uh, a, an environment that's very damaging to this organelle.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett40:41

       Wait, say that again. So how does stress impact that?

    3. TSThomas Seyfried40:44

       Stress elevates, uh, corticosteroids. When you're under stress, you get into a fight, into an argument, or you're stressed out by business deal going bad, whatever, uh, uh, corticosteroids e-elevate, elevate blood sugar, contributing to, uh, systemic inflammation. It's okay for a short period of time to be pissed off at something, but it's the chronic stress, the chronic, like, looking at the cell phone, doom scrolling, all this kind of crazy stuff while eating a big Twinkie. Doom scrolling, eating Twinkies, not moving. All of this creates, uh, stress on this organelle in some population of cells.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett41:19

       It makes it work harder.

    5. TSThomas Seyfried41:20

       It's damaging because you produce reactive species that damage the efficiency of this organelle to produce energy effectively, and that either will kill the cell gradually if it can't compe-- uh, use compensatory fermentation or predis-predispose you to cancer. So either way, it's unhealthy. So we have chronic disease. Cancer is the number one big dog in the chronic disease world. I mean, it's the one that people fear the most. Um, type two diabetes, cardiovascular disease, you know, dementia, uh, all of these are part of damage to this organelle in one way or another. And, uh, like as I said, for Parkinson's disease, when that organelle gets damaged, the cells of the substantia nigra die. They are incapable of compensating with fermentation, so they up and die. Cancer is very rare in neurons of the brain. Neurons-- The glial cells of the brain form these brain tumors mostly. But neurons can't compensate with fermentation. They die. So you, you either get compen-compensatory ancient fermentation leading to dysregulated cell growth, which we call cancer, or we get cell death leading to chronic diseases.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett42:27

       What about sleep then? What's going on with sleep that's causing-

    7. TSThomas Seyfried42:29

       Sleep is a way we can restore the energy efficiency of the mitochondria.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett42:33

       If we're well slept.

    9. TSThomas Seyfried42:34

       If we have good sleep, yeah. You know, everybody feels good when you have a good night's sleep. Your body feels rejuvenated because you're not, you're not ... stressing out, you're reducing the ability of this organelle to manage the, the, the, the metabolic, uh, environment. Uh, if you're up all night and you're, and you're, like, stressed out and you're never giving this o- uh, organelle in a particular cell, in a particular part of the organ- of, of the body. You know? You, you get neuropsychiatric problems. You can get digestive problems. You can get cancer. You can get type 2 diabetes. You have a whole-- And we put it in the paper there, all the different stress, all the different things that can chronically, uh, or acutely damage oxidative phosphorylation.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett43:14

        So sleep basically gives the mitochondria a little bit of a break.

    11. TSThomas Seyfried43:17

        Yes. It's a, it's a-- It gives your whole body a break, let's be honest. So, so, but you, you pile those things on together. Lack of exercise. Our ancestors, what do you think our ancestors... You know how hard it is to run down and kill a big buffalo or a m- a wooly mammoth? I mean, you're, you're exhausted after doing something. As a matter of fact, you chase these animals, uh, you separate-- And this is another thing that was really interesting, came out of Israel, uh, I think it was last year. They looked at the cavemen, what they were eating. They were eating the, the strongest members of the herd, uh, leading to the indirect extinction of these animals. They found out that if you can eat the strongest member of the herd, you'll get the vitality of that, uh, of that or, or buffalo or elephant or whatever the hell they were eating. Because they knew the marrow and the s- and the, the, the physiology of that, of that organism at that point in its life could provide you with the strength that that had. Now, when you eat the strongest members of the herd because you wanna be tough, you're putting the old and the young at-- vulnerable to predators, leading to the extinction. Uh, and this is what a big paper came out of, out of, uh, Israel. They looked at these cavemen, what they were eating, like five hundred thousand years ago or whatever they were doing. So humans indirectly caused extinction of other species, in part, and not o- in part because they were eating the toughest guys in the herd. So because they felt that if tho- if I ate those guys, I'm gonna be strong too. And in a way, they're right. But all of it has to do with the energy efficiency of your muscles, your brain, your ability to be r- r- resilient, uh, um, endurance. Uh, I'm telling you, these guys were ch- chiseled. They, they weren't dying

14. 44:54 – 45:58

    What's Inside the Confidential Envelope?

    1. TSThomas Seyfried44:54

       from type 2 diabetes, cancer, [chuckles] right? Dementia. They were dying from infections and injuries. A- and child mortality, uh, were mostly killing our Paleolithic ancestors. But when you bring your body back into a low glucose ketone, uh, you're actually going back like you were, and this is why we developed the glucose ketone index.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett45:13

       What is in that envelope in front of you?

    3. TSThomas Seyfried45:14

       Well, this is, um... It's a paper that's under embargo because they, they think it's gonna be-- the world thinks it's gonna be very important. And, um, and it is. So, and what it is, this is a, um, a way to keep that organelle healthy. So this is a way to manage, uh, um, energy efficiency in the body.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett45:37

       And this hasn't been released yet?

    5. TSThomas Seyfried45:39

       It hasn't been released. Okay, it's coming out. It's a, it's gonna be a lead article in the Frontiers in Science. And not only that, we-- the paper, the paper was written, uh, for the scientists, and then the journal decided to make a second copy for y- they call young minds. So letting

15. 45:58 – 50:25

    The Patient Who Inspired the Discovery

    1. TSThomas Seyfried45:58

       kids that are, like, eight to twelve or fourteen years old, uh, synthesize it down. And, and, and one of my colleagues said that's probably what most people will be reading [laughs] 'cause they don't wanna know about the bioenergetics that actually goes on inside this organelle to explain why this chart means something.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett46:15

       And you've been working on this for some time?

    3. TSThomas Seyfried46:17

       Well, I, I, I built the GKI. So let me tell you the story. There was a woman, uh, an American woman, a lawyer, Trudy DuPont, who, uh, developed, um, uh, a kind of a brain stem tumor. And after I wrote my book, that book there. That's my only book. Anyway, Trudy, Trudy wanted to use this metabolic therapy. She stayed alive much longer, over ten years with this. We kept the-- She eventually passed away, unfortunately. But, so I was measuring-- 'cause we knew that the tumor cells needed sugar to grow. Otto, Otto Warburg showed that, and many other people showed that. And they can't burn ketones because, because the fatty a- You need a very efficient mitochondria to burn ketones for energy. Our normal cells can burn ketones for energy, and that gives us tremendous, uh, uh... We can actually breathe m- lower oxygen, more energy if you have efficient-- if you can burn ketones efficiently in this organelle. But if the organelle is damaged, they can't use the ketones. They can't burn fatty acids or ketones, which stores lipid drops. It's one of these big papers here. These... [sighs] Uh, Steven, you can't believe how people misinterpret information. They see droplets of fatty acids in the cytoplasm and say, "You see, the cancer cell needs all that fatty acid." No, they can't. It's there to protect them. If they try to burn it, they blow this up and die. So there is a storage of fat. They can't burn fatty acids or ketone bodies. So I knew cancer needed glucose, and I knew cancer couldn't burn fatty acids or ketones because this organelle is just, is broken. So I'm measuring glucose and ketones independently in Trudy. She's do- doing the finger prick thing, sending me the information back and saying, "Oh, here's my glucose. Here's my ketones."

    4. SBSteven Bartlett48:00

       Okay. So I have a, a ketone-

    5. TSThomas Seyfried48:02

       Yeah

    6. SBSteven Bartlett48:02

       ... glucose reader in front of me.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried48:03

       Right. Right. Right.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett48:04

       If I put my blood on this strip, it tells me my glucose levels.

    9. TSThomas Seyfried48:07

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett48:07

        If I put my blood on this strip-

    11. TSThomas Seyfried48:09

        Yeah

    12. SBSteven Bartlett48:09

        ... it tells me my ketone levels.

    13. TSThomas Seyfried48:10

        Right. Right. But if you, if you look at them independently, glucose is very volatile, very variable. And this is why I developed the glucose ketone ratio. Because Trudy had a parking spot that was for handicapped because she had a cane. Her brain stem glioma was preventing her from walking as effectively as normal peop- So she-- somebody took her parking spot. She was bullshit. So she ran upstairs and took her blood sugar, and it was a hundred and eighty-six milligram per deciliter. It was very, very high So-- And I know she was on a ket-ketonic diet. Uh, and, and she emails me and says, "I'm gonna die. My cancer's gonna grow fast." I say, "What's going on?" She said, "My blood sugar is like one eighty-six and, you know, it's supposed to be-- You told me it was supposed to be sixty or f- you know, fifty, sixty-five or in that zone." She says-- So I said, "What's your ketone level?" "Oh, it's still, you know, like you just had point four millimolar," or I think it was point nine millimolar. I said, "Well, that didn't change, right?" "No, just the sugar changed." So I said to the students that were working with Josh Finklenauer. I said, "Josh, this, this trying to measure these two independently is, is bullshit. You can't-- This is hard to figure out." So what we decided to do in millimolar, 'cause glucose comes out in milligram per deciliter, whereas ketones come out in millimolar. So we had to convert glucose to millimolar and divide it by the ketone in millimolar, and then you get a number that's not all over the world. It's very stable. So, so we were able to-- Because of Trudy, that one cancer patient, we developed the ratio of, of this. Then later on, we realized that this ratio is a statement of how healthy your mitochondria actually are. So when you're, when you have these low ratio, you're a Paleolithic man. You're back in the zone where we didn't have chronic diseases because we didn't have damage to the organelle that would cause those diseases. So Paleolithic man, think, where are they getting their g- uh, pastries? Where, where are they getting their cakes and sweets and all this other-- They didn't have it. They weren't there because of, of choice. They were there because of circumstance. So our new-- Uh, uh, and we learned Paleolithic man was always in some sort of a state of some ketosis because they wouldn't have food for periods. They were very active in their exercise.

16. 50:25 – 53:01

    Measuring Your Glucose Ketone Index Live

    1. TSThomas Seyfried50:25

       They had-- They didn't have chronic diseases, but they had other kinds of diseases. So, so then, um, my, my, my, my student, um, uh, Derek Lee, myself, and Christos Chanopoulos, we started to make a ratio chart. Now, these are the numbers that you get when you divide your sugar by your ketones.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett50:43

       Okay, so my sugar by my ketones. So if I did my glucose measure now on this little reader here-

    3. TSThomas Seyfried50:47

       Yeah. Okay, let's see what your GKI is.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett50:49

       Oh, you want me to do it? Okay.

    5. TSThomas Seyfried50:50

       Okay. What-- You had a glucose-- You, you had a, a ketone with zero point four millimolar.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett50:54

       Yeah.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried50:55

       Okay. What was your sugar?

    8. SBSteven Bartlett50:56

       I have it written down somewhere here.

    9. TSThomas Seyfried50:56

       So we can divide-- We can do the divi- division right now and tell you what you have.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett51:00

        You can get these little, uh, keto-

    11. TSThomas Seyfried51:02

        Oh, yeah, it's a Keto-Mojo. And you can also get them now for, for, uh... Wow, this guy's skilled at doing this. [laughs]

    12. SBSteven Bartlett51:09

        I travel with one of these, believe it or not.

    13. TSThomas Seyfried51:11

        Yeah.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett51:11

        So I have one all the time.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried51:13

        Wow.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett51:14

        Ninety.

    17. TSThomas Seyfried51:15

        Ninety? Okay, so you have to, you have to divide, you have to divide. You're not getting the-- Doesn't this give you the push button to give the GKI right away? 'Cause the new ones have it. So you have to divide ninety by eighteen and you get a number.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett51:28

        Uh, five.

    19. TSThomas Seyfried51:29

        Five. So divide five by zero point four.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett51:32

        Twelve point five.

    21. TSThomas Seyfried51:33

        Okay, so here you are. Twelve point five. You're down here in the, in the, in the prevention zone.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett51:40

        Ah, nice.

    23. TSThomas Seyfried51:41

        Okay. So, so you-- This is where Paleolithic man mostly lived. Paleolithic man lived in the yellow-green zones because they didn't have access to all of the things that would drive up your bl-blood sugar and keep your ke-- When your blood sugar goes through the roof, your ketones are really low because insulin is now, um, driving it up. So, so that's good. Um, twelve, huh?

    24. SBSteven Bartlett52:05

        Mm.

    25. TSThomas Seyfried52:05

        So I, I did the, I did the carnivore diet for a week-

    26. SBSteven Bartlett52:08

        Mm-hmm

    27. TSThomas Seyfried52:09

        ... uh, eating big ribeyes. You like ribeye steak?

    28. SBSteven Bartlett52:12

        Yes, of course.

    29. TSThomas Seyfried52:14

        [laughs] Okay. Ribeyes, bacon and eggs, lamb. I, I-- So I did it for a week and, um, I was able to get down to ten.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett52:23

        Okay.
17. 53:01 – 58:02

    The 'Red Zone' Could Cause Cancer

    1. TSThomas Seyfried53:01

       uh, all the chronic diseases. This is-- The red zone is the zone of risk for chronic diseases and cancer. And when you look at the obesity epidemic, you look at all these things, these guys are, are... And it's, it's like we can visit the red zone. We don't wanna live in the red zone. So-

    2. SBSteven Bartlett53:20

       So if I was to visit the red zone, it would look like me eating high carbohydrate diets, lots of sugar.

    3. TSThomas Seyfried53:26

       Yeah. No exercise.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett53:28

       No exercise.

    5. TSThomas Seyfried53:29

       Yeah. And basically modern man.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett53:31

       And also eating f- five meals a day, like snacking all the time.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried53:34

       Yeah. Oh, then you'd be b-- You know, we have, uh, this document cases, we have them up to five hundred. You can get-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett53:40

       You're joking.

    9. TSThomas Seyfried53:40

       Oh, yeah. GKIs of five hundred. You have people with, you know, blood sugars about four or five hundred milligram per deciliter. I mean, you could do the-- and zero ketones. I mean, you, you do the, you do the math. It's, uh, it's unbelievable.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett53:53

        You're basically saying, "I wanna keep my gl- my blood glucose levels-"

    11. TSThomas Seyfried53:55

        And you wanna, you wanna have-

    12. SBSteven Bartlett53:56

        "... low"

    13. TSThomas Seyfried53:56

        ... some level of ketones.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett53:58

        And high-- and my ketone levels somewhat as high as I can.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried54:00

        Well, it's-- You don't wanna go... Because people-- Now, I hear the physicians listening. They go, "Oh, he's gonna go into ketoacidosis." Hey, people, f- give me a break. Ketoacidosis is like when you have ketone levels o- of fifteen to twenty millimolar. Are you kidding me? What is yours? Zero point four?

    16. SBSteven Bartlett54:14

        Mm-hmm.

    17. TSThomas Seyfried54:14

        That's called nutritional ketosis. That's how we evolved. When you have Type 1 diabetes where you can't control sugar or, or f- or, uh, i-insulin, you have no insulin in responsive, you're gonna get high levels of sugar and ketones. This is, this is a pathological condition. Most of-- Type 2 diabetes, these are all pathologies based on damaging oxidative phosphorylation. So what this chart does is for the first time, and we put it together because we did all the bi-- And the paper discusses the bioenergetics. What we're finding in cancer Is that if you can get into the green zones where your blood sugar is low and your ketones are elevated, you hammer the hell out of these tumor cells because they, they, they... You're taking away one of their two primary fuels driving dysregulated cell growth. Okay? And as the, and as the, and as the ketones go up, the rest of your cells in the body are getting super healthy. The tumor cells can't tap into the value of a ketone because the organelle needed in the tumor cell to do that is corrupted structurally and functionally. Is-- Am, am I clear about that?

    18. SBSteven Bartlett55:27

        Yes.

    19. TSThomas Seyfried55:27

        Okay. So ketones will make you healthy, the normal cells of your body, but cannot be used to help the cancer cell because you need a good structural functional organelle to burn them. So they become marginalized, and if the ketones go up, they're actually toxic to that, to that cell to some extent. So but they're still alive. Uh, the cancer cells are now incapacitated. They're, uh... We, we showed you get rid of the abnormal inflammation, you get rid of the angiogen- the abnormal blood vessels. You're taking an angry tumor and making it much less angry, much less inflamed, uh, uh, more indolent, uh, kind of a tumor, but it's still there. It's not-- Because the other fuel that's keeping this cancer cell going is the glutamine. Okay? So now when you have the patient in this green zone, this is for management now, Steven. This is... Prevention is, is never having to deal with what I'm talking about. If you're living in the yellow zone, the probability of getting cancer or chronic diseases is already reduced. Okay? But now you have some poor guy out there, he's living in the red zone his whole life. He wants to manage the cancer that he has. He, he has to get down in the green zone and try to stay there as long as he can. But the cancer will still grow because it has access to glutamine. Okay? And glutamine is always... Here's the bloodstream. Look at, look at, you have this much blood. Cancer needs that, so you always have a surfeit of glutamine. So you have to come in now with drugs, and the drugs, like repurposed drugs, to target the, the glutaminolysis. With this one here, this BMC big paper here.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett57:07

        Mm-hmm.

    21. TSThomas Seyfried57:08

        Okay? This paper and the new one we have with the ketogenic for the I- I-- childhood, um, high-grade glioma for kids. So once, once you get down here, you come in with drugs that target glutamine. I've looked at one, and that's embendezole. Okay? How did I come to that realization? People knew that embendezole had some therapeutic benefit about cancer, but they don't believe it until you show the mechanism. That paper shows the mechanism. It targets glucose and glutamine. [chuckles] Now, this one targets glucose and glutamine, the two fuels driving the dysregulated growth of the tumor. Okay, so here's the, here's the mitochondria. So it's getting the glucose in the cytoplasm from the sugar, uh, and making-- uh, and it's fermenting that, and then also the, the amino acid glutamine comes in. You have to block the glycolysis and the gluco- these two pathways. You have to restrict availability of glucose and glutamine

18. 58:02 – 58:55

    The Man Who Survived Glioblastoma for 10 Years

    1. TSThomas Seyfried58:02

       together at the same time.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett58:04

       Yeah.

    3. TSThomas Seyfried58:05

       I speak only about things that I have tested in my lab and published papers on, like this. So you have to real- the, the cancer field doesn't understand that the cancer can't grow without glucose and glutamine, and can't switch to fatty acids or ketone bodies.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett58:21

       That's still not gonna kill the cancer, though, is it? It's just gonna-

    5. TSThomas Seyfried58:23

       Yeah, we don't ever use the term cure because some of these tumors... Now, let me tell you, we, we have people like Pablo Kelly from Devon, England. He had the glioblastoma. Uh, he didn't take any radiation or chemo. He just did metabolic therapy. He lived for ten years.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett58:38

       Mm.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried58:38

       He was diagnosed with an inoperable glioblastoma. They wanted to irradiate and poison him with the drugs. He said no. He was one of these naturalistic kind of guys. And, um, he, he lived for ten years, and the tumor became operable. He had four debulking surgeries

19. 58:55 – 1:07:32

    Using the Keto Diet to Supercharge Chemo

    1. TSThomas Seyfried58:55

       on a, an originally des- described inoperable cancer. Cut out four times because once we put the metabolic therapy, the circle, the demarcation of the tumor, whoa, the neurosurgeon says, "I think I can get this out." But he never, never got rid-- He lived with it for ten years, had a couple of kids. He died from a cerebral hemorrhage on the last debulking surgery. He never died from the tumor.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett59:13

       But you're saying, you're saying that the two work together in, in tandem.

    3. TSThomas Seyfried59:17

       Yes.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett59:17

       You're saying that the chemotherapy works in more-

    5. TSThomas Seyfried59:19

       The ca- Now, that's where-- That's another thing. So what we do, uh, and this is very interesting. So w- if you put the patient in nutritional ketosis, the, the ketogenic state of nutritional ketosis facilitates the delivery of drugs to the tumor cell. It actually makes... You can use lower doses of drugs, and you, and, and you, and, and you get bigger effect. The therapeutic benefit increases with lower dosing.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett59:47

       So you want to be in ketosis when you do these chemotherapy-

    7. TSThomas Seyfried59:49

       Yes

    8. SBSteven Bartlett59:49

       ... radiation therapies?

    9. TSThomas Seyfried59:50

       Yes, and then you use much lower doses. This is what we're doing in Istanbul Clinic. We're taking pancreatic cancers. These guys living four and five years. What are we doing? And advanced breast cancer and all these terminal cancers. We put them into some level of ketosis, and then you come in with the standard drugs, cisplatin, carboplatin, whatever you want to do, but you cut the dosages down big time, and then they have tremend- And you put it-- The ke- the f- the, uh... This is what the title of the paper is. Ketogenic diet, uh, as a metabolic vehicle, uh, for enhancing therapeutic efficacy.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:28

        The current body of research suggests that being in a state of ketosis can act as a helper therapy, enhancing the cancer-killing effects of chemotherapy while simultaneously protecting healthy cells.

    11. TSThomas Seyfried1:00:36

        Yeah. Yeah, right. Right.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:39

        Progressive oncologists are currently using ketogenic diets alongside standard chemo to maximize its efficacy.

    13. TSThomas Seyfried1:00:45

        That's right. That's what we're doing in S- Istanbul. And, and, and also in, in, uh, in, in Greece, we're doing, we're doing those same things. So you, you can use this

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:55

        When you enter a fasted or ketogenic state, your healthy cells essentially go into bunker mode. They slow their division, conserve energy, and build up their defenses. Cancer cells, however, do not have this evolutionary off switch. They continue trying to rapidly divide. When the toxic chemotherapy hits, your shielded healthy cells survive it, it much better, while the exposed, rapidly dividing cancer cells take the full hit.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried1:01:18

        Yeah.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:18

        Ah, okay.

    17. TSThomas Seyfried1:01:19

        Yeah.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:19

        Interesting.

    19. TSThomas Seyfried1:01:20

        Yeah. In other words, you make what the tools you have work better. The problem in the field of cancer today is they're not using the tools in the correct way. Now, let me give you another example. If you take immunotherapies, you hear about these things, c- uh, uh, chimeric antigen T receptor, PDL, PD-1, PD-L1 inhibitors. They're called precision medicines, right? So look, they're designed to attack a, a molecule on the surface or stop that cell from, uh, being resistant.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:51

        Mm-hmm.

    21. TSThomas Seyfried1:01:51

        If you would try to attack... And what they do, oftentimes they come at, after you've failed chemo and radiation, they then come at you with an immunotherapy. The metabolic pressure shrinks down your tumor, makes it very indolent-

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:03

        Mm-hmm

    23. TSThomas Seyfried1:02:03

        ... non-aggressive, and the rest of your body is healthy. You're not going bald. You're not bleeding gums. Your microbiome isn't blown to hell. So, and then you can come in with low dose chemo, immunotherapy, because what's ever left in that remaining residual mass, they may all have something in common for having survived all this, right? So now you can come in with a precision medicine and possibly resolution.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:26

        I thought this was fascinating. It says chemotherapy creates massive oxidative stress, i.e. damage inside the tumor. To repair the damage and survive, the cancer cell requires massive amounts of glucose. So if the patient is in ketosis, the tumor's glucose supply is essentially cut off. It can't, the cancer cell can't repair the DNA damage caused by your chemo, leading to faster tumor death. Um, yeah, interesting.

    25. TSThomas Seyfried1:02:48

        Well, don't forget also, listen to this. And as another thing, people go in. What protects the tumor cell from chemo and radiation is the waste products of fermentation. The lactic acid and the succinic acid that are dumped out of this raging beast prevent these other therapies from working. So if you want your therapy to work, you gotta target those two fuels together at the same time. And when you do that, now this cell, the shield is off. These things are super vulnerable to even low doses of chemo and radiation. And the immunotherapies, look it, if you have an immunotherapy, you try to attack the beast when it's at its strongest, uh, you're not gonna win. And this is what happens. You get only partial response. They, in the field of cancer today, they think living an extra six months is a major breakthrough. We're talking about living an extra five and six years. This is what's really important.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:42

        I just, um, I, I was re-doing some research to figure out if oncologists, so cancer doctors, are currently recommending the ketogenic diet, and it says, "The vast majority of mainstream oncologists do not recommend the ketogenic diet to the, to their newly diagnosed patients. Um, in fact, if a patient brings it up, many doctors will actively advise against it." And the reasons for that, number one is the fear of cachexia?

    27. TSThomas Seyfried1:04:06

        Cachexia, yeah.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:07

        Cachexia. Cancer cachexia is a severe wasting syndrome where patients rapidly lose muscle and fat. It is a massive problem and a leading cause of mortality in cancer patients. Because the ketogenic diet suppresses appetite and often leads to weight loss, oncologists are terrified that a strict keto diet will accelerate cachexia and weaken the patient.

    29. TSThomas Seyfried1:04:25

        Well, that's because they, th- they have not heard what I just said with respect to the biology and biochemistry. Okay. Cachexia, there's two ways you can lose in cancer patients. Cachexia is the ability of the tumor cell to mobilize energy out of the muscles. It's taking the glutamine out of your muscles and feeding. This is one of the two fuels that's driving the beast is glutamine. Where are they getting the glutamine from? They're getting the glutamine not only from the bloodstream, but they dissolve your muscles as a, a, a, as part of that, part of that process. So when you put a patient in nutritional ketosis, the weight loss is therapeutic weight loss. Cachexia is pathological weight loss. Now, the other way you can lose weight is you take a high dose of chemotherapy.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:10

        I travel all the time, so I made a rule in my life that I'll only travel with a cabin bag. The problem with this is there's not much space, and here's the solution. It is called an Ekster 1% travel pack, and I teamed up with Ekster to make this. Typically, I can only bring some of my black shirts, and it's a trade-off of which black shirt shall I bring? How many of these do you think I can get in here? So let's try one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen. Let's try fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-three, twenty-four. Okay, so that's twenty-four black T-shirts. Here's where the magic comes in. Zip it up. Make sure it's nice and sealed, and then use this little contraption. Stick it on there. I can now take more than twenty black shirts with me, which will last me three weeks. So if you travel frequently and you wanna get one of these so you can save more space and be away for longer, go to ekster.com and use code DOAC for ten percent off our collection. And I think some of the background context here is that mainstream oncology operates on the, um, the sort of somatic mutation therapy, which is the belief that cancer is fundamentally a genetic disease driven by DNA mutations. And because their training focuses on genetics, their treatments are designed to target DNA and cell division-
20. 1:07:32 – 1:08:30

    The Experiment That Could Prove Cancer Isn't Genetic

    1. TSThomas Seyfried1:07:32

       somatic mutation theory says that cancer is caused by random genetic mutations. So now, new sequencing of normal people like you and me are finding mutations in all these driver genes and cells in our body that aren't in dysregulated cell growth. So we're calling them wild type cancers. What do you mean a wild type cancer?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:51

       You lost me.

    3. TSThomas Seyfried1:07:52

       Okay. The nucleus-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:53

       Mm

    5. TSThomas Seyfried1:07:53

       ... of a tumor cell, a raging tumor cell-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:55

       Mm-hmm

    7. TSThomas Seyfried1:07:56

       ... what's causing him, that cell to grow? Is it the mitochondria in the cytoplasm, or is it the mutations in the nucleus? Okay? The, so according to the somatic mutation theory, it's the mutations in the nucleus that are causing the dysregulated cell growth.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:10

       Mm.

    9. TSThomas Seyfried1:08:10

       You take that nucleus and put it into, into a enucleated normal cell.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:15

        Yeah, and there's no cancer.

    11. TSThomas Seyfried1:08:16

        No can- There's no dysregulation.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:18

        It must be something else.

    13. TSThomas Seyfried1:08:19

        Then you take the nucleus of the normal cell and put it into the cytoplasm of a tumor cell, and you get dysregulated cell growth.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:27

        So it must be something other than the nucleus.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried1:08:29

        Yes, the mitochondria.

21. 1:08:30 – 1:13:41

    1,700 Cancer Deaths a Day: Seyfried's Warning

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:30

       Interestingly, it says-

    2. TSThomas Seyfried1:08:31

       So with mitochondria controlling our destiny, and, and, and the fie- the field of cancer has yet to understand it, accept it, and then say, "Well, we can't do any of this until we double blind crossover." That's just-- What are you even talk-- The science is telling us this. That's your way of protecting a broken system.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:49

       Are you pissed off about this? 'Cause you do seem pissed off about this.

    4. TSThomas Seyfried1:08:51

       Well, who wouldn't be? Steven, there's one thousand seven hundred people a day in this country dying from cancer. I don't know the English. Listen, that, that comes out to seventy an hour, and it gets worse every single year. And the last time I was on this show, you guys used some old data. Look it up today. It's twenty twenty-six. American Cancer Society says this year, in twenty twenty-six, we will have six hundred and twenty-six thousand souls leave the planet from cancer. Okay? This t- twenty twenty-six. And every year it gets worse. So when you hear all the breakthroughs, we have, we have television ads in Boston for the cancer soc-- Breakthrough after breakthrough after breakthrough. All these different-- They come on a- and, and, and all we do is get more dead cancer patients. Raise money for cancer. Where's the, where's the accountability for all the money you're raising? When are the worl-- When is the people gonna wake up? You don't make someone healthy by irradiating and poisoning them. You've got to [chuckles] understand the biology and the biochemistry of the disease. I have the concepts and the, the proofs, but the physician who works with the patient on a clinic basis, they're the ones that must apply this to the clinic. So there's two different things here. There's the hard science that's the, that's the bedrock for this, and then there's the clinical person who has the practice, so that practice does that. Together, you get great success. Or better, I say, say success better than anything that's out there today.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:22

       The American Cancer Society recently released its latest projections for twenty-five and twenty-six.

    6. TSThomas Seyfried1:10:27

       Yeah.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:27

       And the data paints a fascinating dual-sided picture. More people are getting diagnosed with cancer. Um, new cases. The ACS projects over two point one one million new cancer diagnoses in twenty twenty-six. This translates roughly to five thousand eight hundred new cases every single day. Approximately six hundred and twenty-six thousand Americans-

    8. TSThomas Seyfried1:10:46

       Yeah

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:46

       ... are expected to die-

    10. TSThomas Seyfried1:10:47

        Yeah

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:47

        ... from cancer in twenty twenty-six.

    12. TSThomas Seyfried1:10:49

        Right.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:50

        About one thousand seven hundred deaths per day. Lung cancer remains the leading cause of cancer death, projected to cause more fatalities than-

    14. TSThomas Seyfried1:10:59

        Colorectal

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:00

        ... colorectal and pancr- pancreatic cancers combined.

    16. TSThomas Seyfried1:11:03

        Mm.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:03

        I also just want- wanted to pick up on a point we were talking about earlier, which is about the metabolic approach to cancers. It says here, and this is going to the point about, you know, people telling you to just eat whatever you want while you're s- you know, managing cancer. Um, because the primary goal of the hospital dietician is to prevent weight loss during-

    18. TSThomas Seyfried1:11:18

        [sighs]

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:18

        ... brutal chemotherapy regimes, patients are frequently told to eat whatever they can and eat whatever they can keep down. It is incredibly common for cancer patients to be handed meal replacement shakes, which are often packed with corn syrups and refined sugars, ice cream, and high carbohydrate comfort foods just to keep their calorific intake up. From a metabolic perspective, this is a tragedy.

    20. TSThomas Seyfried1:11:39

        Mm.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:39

        While it keeps weight on the patient, it simultaneously floods the bloodstream with glucose and insulin, directly feeding the tumor. Um, and while keto is not the standard of care, the landscape is beginning to slowly shift. There is a growing minority of integrative oncologists and specialized metabolic clinicians worldwide that actively prescribe therapeutic ket- ketosis alongside conventional treatments. Those doctors use the keto diet and fasting protocols to protect healthy cells and s- um, and sanitize tumors before administering lower, more targeted doses of chemo.

    22. TSThomas Seyfried1:12:12

        Yeah, that's what we developed. That's our, that's our plan. That's, that's what we're doing, okay? We, we, we do that because we understand the biology and biochemistry, and that's why we developed-- we're developing the new society called MORE, the MORE Alliance, Metabolic Oncology Research and Education. This is bringing, uh, together what you just mentioned there in a logical approach to manage cancer. This is a logical pr- approach based on the hard science of decades of research, initiated originally by Otto Warburg and then continued by our group at Boston College.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:45

        The American Cancer Society says that breast cancer is increasing, prostate cancer is increasing, pancreatic cancer, melanoma-

    24. TSThomas Seyfried1:12:50

        Mm-hmm

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:50

        ... HPV-associated oral cancers are steadily increasing in the incidence of severe Um, cancers

    26. TSThomas Seyfried1:12:58

        Yeah. There has been no major advance in managing glioblastoma in one hundred years.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:04

        What's glioblastoma?

    28. TSThomas Seyfried1:13:05

        That's the, the, the br- deadly brain cancer, okay? That killed, uh, Teddy Kennedy from Massachusetts, Senator Kennedy, John McCain, President Biden's son, Beau Biden. It, it's killed a lot of various people, and it's considered a death sentence. Oh, no, no, no, no. We, we're, we're keeping these guys alive. Okay? We're not saying we cure the cancer, but we can certainly keep them alive a lot longer. Pancreatic cancer, always considered so bad. We're getting very excellent results in managing pancreatic cancer using metabolic therapies. We know what to do, and we know how to do it. I have clinicians that work with me, dieticians that know how to manage

22. 1:13:41 – 1:16:25

    Seyfried's Plan to End the Cancer Epidemic

    1. TSThomas Seyfried1:13:41

       cancer effectively. We can do it r- right now, today. If someone were to say, "Seyfried, get your, get your group together. Let me see what you can do." I will put up our metabolic therapy against any trial from any of these pharmaceutical companies. We can keep these people alive a hell of a lot longer to participate in our society. We're not doing that.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:00

       If you were made president today, Thomas-

    3. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:03

       Of the United States?

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:03

       Of the United States.

    5. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:05

       Don't go there.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:06

       I'm gonna go there.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:07

       Uh-uh. Uh. Those guys are, uh, not... They're, let's put it this way. They're not scientifically literate [laughs] like that.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:16

       But you're like-

    9. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:16

       No, I would have to be. Yeah, right

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:18

        You're Professor Thomas Seyfried. You're now president of the United States, and your primary objective is to bring down this one thousand seven hundred Americans that are gonna get cancer a day.

    11. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:28

        Mm.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:30

        Um, is it, is it get cancer or die from cancer?

    13. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:32

        No, they die from cancer.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:34

        Okay.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:34

        Seventeen hundred a day dying from cancer in the United... Seventy an hour. Think about it.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:39

        You, you can put in place policies to stop this happening and to also help people manage it better. What is it you do?

    17. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:44

        Well, first of all, we wouldn't throw out everything. Just like I said, we have a strategy now to manage cancer effectively.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:51

        Okay, so pr- you also wanna prevent it.

    19. TSThomas Seyfried1:14:52

        We're not gonna, we're not gonna get rid of the drugs that are making billions and billions of dollars. We're just gonna use them at lower dosages in a different, different manner.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:59

        But, but you also wanna prevent it in the first place.

    21. TSThomas Seyfried1:15:00

        Well, preventing it-

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:01

        So I'm gonna write notes

    23. TSThomas Seyfried1:15:02

        ... that, that's, that comes back to our chart.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:04

        I'm gonna write down the manifesto. So what, what is, what do we do to prevent these seventy-one people a, an hour dying of cancer?

    25. TSThomas Seyfried1:15:09

        Well, that has to come from government policies.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:11

        Okay, you just got a promotion. You're now the king of the United States.

    27. TSThomas Seyfried1:15:13

        I got it.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:13

        So you don't even need to ask anybody.

    29. TSThomas Seyfried1:15:15

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:15

        What do you do to prevent the seventy-one people a day dying of cancer?
23. 1:16:25 – 1:21:58

    What Foods You Should Actually Eat

    1. TSThomas Seyfried1:16:25

       go to Whole, uh, Whole Foods, where they have the expensive ribeyes and all this stuff, it, it, that's much more expensive. A lot of people can't afford the kinds of foods that will put them in these better healthy zones.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:35

       So we're gonna make food, healthy food more cost, uh, uh, cost effective.

    3. TSThomas Seyfried1:16:39

       Well-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:39

       Cheaper

    5. TSThomas Seyfried1:16:40

       ... those are easy words to say, but in practicality it's not. Okay.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:44

       And what kinds of foods should people be eating?

    7. TSThomas Seyfried1:16:45

       Well, I, I think they should just try to avoid the highly processed carbs. Okay, you don't... Listen to this. You, and, and exercise. There's a lot of things we can do that would mitigate the, the inflammatory conditions put on this chart. The goal here is we know what keeps us healthy. It's the efficiency of that organelle. We wanna do everything possible to keep that organelle healthy. We will reduce dementia. We will reduce diabetes. We will reduce obesity. And they say, "Well, GLP, why don't, why, why don't wanna do..." A- and human beings are, are the kind that I want a quick fix for everything, right?

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:23

       Ozempic. How about some Ozempic?

    9. TSThomas Seyfried1:17:25

       Is this, what is this? Uh, GLP? Uh, yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:27

        Yeah, GLP-1.

    11. TSThomas Seyfried1:17:28

        Okay. We don't, you know, uh, first of all, we haven't done any research yet to know where a GLP would put you on the chart. We do know one thing. It lowers blood sugar. How lev- how high of a level would it bring to ketone? 'Cause it's the ketones that keep the organelle healthy. So I'm lowering blood sugar, but am I raising the ketones that enhance the bioenergetic efficiency of the organelle? I don't know what number, and it hasn't been done yet. I don't, I haven't seen any papers coming out.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:56

        Okay, so we'll keep the Ozempic off the table, but you're saying exercise, number three. So I've got, I've got education.

    13. TSThomas Seyfried1:18:01

        Yeah.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:01

        Ha- uh, kill the food deserts so people can get healthy food.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried1:18:04

        Yeah.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:05

        Um, stay away from the ultra-processed stuff. Number three, exercise. We're gonna give everybody free gym memberships and whatever else they need.

    17. TSThomas Seyfried1:18:10

        Yeah, yeah. Reduce stress, emotional stress. You gotta, you gotta do that.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:13

        And meditation.

    19. TSThomas Seyfried1:18:13

        And there's a lot of ways. Music therapy. There's a lot of different ways you can reduce stress.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:16

        Meditation.

    21. TSThomas Seyfried1:18:17

        Friends, happiness, all of those reduce stress. So I had, I had a guy from, uh, Korea. He, uh, I think it was Japan or Korea. We have a big meeting one time, and he di- he didn't tell me what to do. He says, um, "You wanna get cancer? If your job and if your goal in life is to get cancer, you gotta eat crap food all the time. You have to have terrible sleep. Make sure you never un-ass the couch. Sit in front of the TV all day. Look at doom scrolling. Do all that kind of stuff. Make sure you never exercise, and make sure you don't have any friends or be happy." [laughs] He says, "You're, you're on the fast track for, for not only cancer but all these other chronic diseases." So, so that's the, uh, what I just said is you need to not do that M- you're doing a great job. You know, you're-- There's not many people are gonna be measuring their GKI every day. But there are people who love to measure that kind of stuff. Um, now I, I tell you another thing. Uh, so they put these things on your arm, these continuous sugar monitors. They're making continuous glucose ketone monitors. So te- apps are coming out now, believe me. There's apps I've, my, uh, uh, Lucas Liu and some others are making these apps in my lab. And, and, um, you can take your cell phone and, and photograph a particular food item [laughs] . And, and the food item immediate- you put, places your [laughs] the food item on the chart, so you'll know eating that will give you what zone you'll be in if you eat it. So, um, it, it's really interesting. And, and these things are coming. We're using AI to... So, but it's purely patient empowerment, okay? The patient themselves, the person themselves make the choices. No government, president or king or whatever you wanna say, should ever tell people what and how they should eat. The patients should be familiar with this and have the knowledge to know I'm gonna test what I think. So people say to me all the time, "What, uh, t- just tell us what you can eat." That's all they say to me. Okay, eat whatever you want. You figure out where on the chart you're gonna be, and then you'll know. So people say, "Well, I can't eat ketogenic diet." Well, our, our group in, in Greece, now you tell me. They got the brain cancer, tremendous success in keeping brain glioblastoma guys alive. What was the diet? It was that calorie restricted Mediterranean diet. Salmon, sardines, olive oil, avocado, and exercise. That the-- Is that like, "Oh man, that, that's the worst diet"? What about the carnivore diet? What about the t- the ribeye with a little sauce béarnaise on top of it? This keeps your bl- [laughs] your blood sugar low and elevates your ketone. If you wanna do it with plants, uh, b- everything, you got fish, plants, you, you got the, uh, ve-vegans and all these kind of people. This is a bioenergetic roadmap to health.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:01

        Let me just give some specifics. So-

    23. TSThomas Seyfried1:21:03

        And this is amazing because-

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:04

        What about, what about high fructose corn syrups and refined sugar?

    25. TSThomas Seyfried1:21:06

        Oh man, that's the worst kind of crap. You don't take that. [laughs]

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:08

        What about s- what about industrial seed oils?

    27. TSThomas Seyfried1:21:11

        Well, you know, people talk about seed oils.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:13

        Can- canola and soybean oils.

    29. TSThomas Seyfried1:21:14

        Yeah, I don't know. Put it... I, I, every... And listen, another thing too, uh, uh, you and I are different. Uh, we have an individual metabolism. Uh, age, race, sex, all, all the religion, all kinds of stuff determine what and how you live. And I can't be sure, uh, what you eat and what I eat or what you exercise, where it's gonna put, put us on the chart.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:36

        Synthetic pesticides.
24. 1:21:58 – 1:26:48

    Fasting Protocols & Hitting 'The Wall'

    1. TSThomas Seyfried1:21:59

       how this organelle controls the life of the cell. Uh, they don't know enough about the biology [laughs] and biochemistry of the mitochondria. You ought to get guys on here like Nick Lane. He, he from England. I mean, these guys like, uh, Doug Wallace and some of these guys, they're mitochondrial biologists. They, they, they understand this kind of stuff.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:22:17

       I wanna give people actionable things that they can think about. So, um, that's why I was asking you this question about you becoming king. Fasting protocols.

    3. TSThomas Seyfried1:22:25

       Well, okay.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:22:25

       What do you think of intermittent fasting and-

    5. TSThomas Seyfried1:22:27

       Uh, let, let me, let me talk about that just briefly. Did you ever try it?

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:22:30

       Yeah.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried1:22:31

       What do you think? You liked it?

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:22:33

       It depends how long you're talking about.

    9. TSThomas Seyfried1:22:34

       Okay, let's go a week.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:22:36

        Uh, no, I've not fasted for a week before.

    11. TSThomas Seyfried1:22:37

        Okay. You know what? It's the call of the wall. This guy, he, he just sent me his book. It's coming out. Very nice guy, Veral Simac. He say-- People share things with me. The wall is after about three days of not eating, just drinking water. You hit this wall, and it's like, "Oh man, I'm just-- I can't deal with it anymore. It, it's just a terrible feeling in my body. I can't sleep at night. I got the Jimmy legs. I got all kinds of problems. Screw it. I'm not doing this." He found out if you sip just tiny amounts of a grape juice, you can get, get through the wall. What we do for the cancer patients in the way we design our clinical procedures with my clinical friends, we do a zero carb diet for about a week, uh, while the body is readjusting, getting, getting, bringing them out of the red zone, getting into the yellow zone. You can't believe the power of glucose as an addictive drug on the brain. It's unbelievable. It's like cocaine. It, it's, it's-- And you know that when you start, you start shaking and you're going, "Eh." So, but if you don't eat carbs and just eat meat or whatever to keep you in a low GKI, um, then when you jump off to the water-only fasting, it's much less traumatic to the brain. You've gone through the wall, the gate, so to speak. So once you know how to get through the gate, you make this whole process a lot, a lot easier. And that helps people enormously, especially those people that wanna get rid of their chronic disease, okay? Because, uh, or some, you know, we have a lot of people out there that just like to do all this stuff. You know, you ever get these, these people that go overboard on everything. But, you know, right now we have a, a, an obesity, chronic epidemice-- cancer epidemic. All of these epidemics are the result of an abuse of that organelle in one way or another. And we have a pl- a plan to mitigate that abuse, and at least people have an-- at least they're empowered to do it with the help of knowledgeable physicians.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:24:23

        I wanna just keep on this point of actionable feedback. So, um, Dr. Valter Longo's-

    13. TSThomas Seyfried1:24:26

        Yeah. Yeah

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:24:27

        ...have you seen? Doctor-- His extensive research clinical trials prove that fasting mimicking diets drastically lower IGF-1, which triggers cellular autophagy and actually makes standard cancer therapies up to three times more effective by removing the metabolic shield of cancer cells.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried1:24:42

        Yeah, which is the gluc- the, the waste products of, of, of gluc- which is the lactic acid and the succinic acid. That all goes down.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:24:49

        Would you recommend, again, if you're king, would you recommend that every-

    17. TSThomas Seyfried1:24:52

        I, I would never recommend any... I have to just give them the knowledge. Then the person has to make the decision themselves.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:24:57

        Do you think it could be beneficial-

    19. TSThomas Seyfried1:24:59

        Of course

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:24:59

        ...if you were king to, um, have everybody wear a CGM, one of those continuous glucose monitors, at least once?

    21. TSThomas Seyfried1:25:06

        No.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:25:07

        Never?

    23. TSThomas Seyfried1:25:08

        No, I, I think if you have cancer and you really wanna stay in this green zone to know, right? Listen, I was down in, in Mexico not long ago. I was talking to one of the head physicians down [laughs] down there. He wore one of these things, right?

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:25:20

        Mm-hmm.

    25. TSThomas Seyfried1:25:20

        He said, "Every time I wanted to go out and have a party and have a good time, this damn thing would be beeping." So what? He ripped it off and threw it in the trash. So [laughs] it's like, you know, you don't want somebody barking in your ear when you're having a good time. That's why what you're doing right now with this, you're choosing to prick your finger. You're the one making that decision. There's not something on your arm saying, "Steven, don't do that. Don't do that."

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:25:42

        But you know what? It was useful to wear it once-

    27. TSThomas Seyfried1:25:44

        Yeah, I-

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:25:44

        Or twice.

    29. TSThomas Seyfried1:25:45

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:25:45

        Because it even-
25. 1:26:48 – 1:28:30

    Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy & Cancer

    1. TSThomas Seyfried1:26:48

       when to do that. So there's flexibility in this whole process. It's not one... Like, for example, we have the standard of care, which is written in granite, for crying out loud. They get all, they, they, oh, if you do anything different from the standard of care, you could lose your license as a physician. Metabolic therapy is, is patient driven. It's driven on the patient.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:27:06

       What about hyperbaric oxygen?

    3. TSThomas Seyfried1:27:08

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:27:08

       There was a study, uh, in 2013 that demonstrated that while a ketogenic diet alone significantly slowed tumor growth in systemic metastatic cancer mouse models, combining the diet with hyperbaric oxygen therapy elicited a profound synergetic decrease in tumor growth and drastically increased survival times.

    5. TSThomas Seyfried1:27:25

       Yeah. We, we published that paper with Dominick D'Agostino. So we, we put mice... So, uh, listen. Hyperbaric oxygen will create oxidative stress in cells that do not have efficient oxidative phosphorylation.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:27:37

       Ah, s- cancer cells.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried1:27:38

       Cancer cells. So you can kill cancer cells by oxidative stress by irradiating or poisoning them, or you can put a patient into, uh, uh, in nu- uh, nutritional ketosis and then put them in hyperbaric oxygen, and the cancer cells are selectively killed. When you irradiate somebody, you're damaging the whole body with all kinds of stuff. And listen, another thing. Steven, you gotta listen to this, and you listen carefully. When you go to these, treat these standard of care, uh, uh-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:28:03

       Sorry?

    9. TSThomas Seyfried1:28:03

       Ka- standard, when you use standard of care, radiation, chemo, whatever they give you.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:28:06

        Yeah.

    11. TSThomas Seyfried1:28:07

        Immunotherapies or whatever. So the patient comes in, and he says, "I've been really working hard on this." The doctor says, "Oh, no, this doesn't work," right? Gives you some radiation or gives you g- [imitates explosion] You're flying up into the red zone. The treatment itself puts so much stress on the body that the body itself starts going, you go into the red zone from the very treatments that you're giving to the patient, which is making, strengthening the tumor cells.

26. 1:28:30 – 1:30:47

    Microplastics & 'Forever Chemicals'

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:28:30

       You're not against chemotherapy, though, are you?

    2. TSThomas Seyfried1:28:32

       No. I'm, I'm, I'm positive about it, but it has to be used in the right context.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:28:37

       Yeah.

    4. TSThomas Seyfried1:28:38

       It has to be used when your body is in this nu- state of nutrition, and you can use low doses, so you don't force the tumor cell to become even more resistant to the treatment.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:28:49

       The next thing which is actionable is what you talked about earlier, which is these microplastics and forever chemicals. In late 2023, the International Agency of Research on Cancer officially upgraded these forever chemicals, which are used in non-stick pans and food packaging, to a grade one carcinogen-

    6. TSThomas Seyfried1:29:04

       Mm

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:29:04

       ... in humans, cancer-causing in humans, based on strong mechanistic evidence that it induces epigenetic, which is gene alterations, and suppresses the immune system. So you'd ban the forever chemicals.

    8. TSThomas Seyfried1:29:16

       Okay. Uh, this is a beautiful paper. I went back, and I took what all of Otto Warburg, meticulously went through all of his work, showed where he was absolutely correct and where he just didn't have the, the new information that would make him. I talked about the forever chemicals, microplastics. Guess what? They damage the organelle. They get into the [laughs] They break. They cause ROS and damage. They, it, it reduced the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation, causing a compensatory increase in the utilization of glucose and glutamine and dysregulated cell growth. Everything comes back to this organelle. Chron- all chronic diseases and cancer are the result of damage to this organelle. That's why having this little thing here is so important. It, it, it's a great prop. I ought to get one for my class.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:30:02

       You can keep it.

    10. TSThomas Seyfried1:30:03

        [laughs]

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:30:04

        Um, the next thing is purifying the water supply. Um, heavy metals are found in local water supplies to runoff and ultimately are carcinogenic in some cases. The IARC classifies arsenic and cadmium as group one carcinogens.

    12. TSThomas Seyfried1:30:20

        Yeah.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:30:20

        And they're frequently found in unfiltered public water infrastructure. So you'd clean out the water supply as well.

    14. TSThomas Seyfried1:30:26

        Yeah. You know, all this stuff is coming into our water supplies, people flushing down all these chemicals into the, into the, which then leach back into the water supply. And every one of the chemicals that we have looked at that has been linked to oncology on, uh, uh, or, or dysregulated cell growth all damage the oxidative phosphorylation chronically. So we're bringing the entire

27. 1:30:47 – 1:37:27

    How Cancer Spreads: Metastasis Explained

    1. TSThomas Seyfried1:30:47

       focus back to things, "What can I do to keep this organelle healthy, uh, even if I'm exposed to these chemicals? If I can do, get into these zones like you're trying to do?" So even if you are exposed to these, this organelle has an incredible healing power in itself.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:06

       What is the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should've talked about, Professor Thomas?

    3. TSThomas Seyfried1:31:09

       Well, I mean, you're- you've covered a lot. One, one of the things I, I wanna talk about, uh, is metastasis.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:14

       What's that?

    5. TSThomas Seyfried1:31:15

       And that's the spread of the tumor throughout the body. Okay. So if you were to have a cancer that's just localized in one spot-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:31:22

       Mm-hmm

    7. TSThomas Seyfried1:31:23

       ... you know, the probability of developing a therapy that would be, um, long-term is highly increased. The problem that kills people is the spread. So if the tumor is in the breast and it spreads to the liver and the lungs and the brain, you know, you've got a problem. Lung cancer spreads to the brain, the liver. Most of these cancers that spread to the brain or other organs become difficult, and that's why you use systemic chemotherapy. You're trying to stop. What we have found is that you have a s- a, a stem cell. People love stem cells. If you ever hear the term stem cell tumor. Wow, a stem cell tumor. Stem cell tumors cannot metastasize. How do I know? Because I had stem cell tumors diagnosed as stem cell tumors with stem cell markers. I've grown them. They grow very angry. They get a lot of blood vessels, but they can't spread. Okay? How do you get spreading tumor cells in your body? The immune system comes in, recognizes that as an unhealed wound, and then fuses with the stem cells, and then you have these hybrid cells. They are programmed to move around your body. So they are a macrophage tumor cell hybrid. So... And they're very hard to kill. But we found they're remarkably sensitive. They're glutamine driven. So we know they're glutamine driven, and they need the glucose, and that why, that's why metabolic therapy done the right way can nail, nail those metastatic cancer cells. Uh, purging them with a little, little bit of immunotherapy to go along with it, you might be able to, to get what we call resolution. Don't forget, my colleagues and I, Dom D'Agostino, Joe Maroon, we built the press-pulse therapeutic strategy. I mentioned that on your previous show. That's the way you, you, you press down the glucose of the tumor and then you pulse to kill the glutamine, which will, which will, uh, target the metastatic cancer cells, enhancing the health and vitality of the organs already infiltrated by the tumor.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:33:18

       I looked on our previous conversation, Dr., uh, Professor Thomas, and, um, it's quite heartbreaking because the comments sections are all people that are ei- either struggling themselves with cancer or a loved one of theirs.

    9. TSThomas Seyfried1:33:31

       I know.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:33:31

        Their wife, their husband, has just been diagnosed with cancer. Is there anything for those people that have clicked on this video? 'Cause I imagine they are in the millions-

    11. TSThomas Seyfried1:33:39

        Yeah, the millions

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:33:39

        ... that you want them to hear.

    13. TSThomas Seyfried1:33:41

        Well, the thing of it is, is why... Well, this is a bigger issue. When you have the science and you have the strategy to manage cancer effectively with minimal toxicity, not to say we can cure, but to say we can manage it, why is it not being done? That's the question.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:33:58

        But to them, to them who've tuned in.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried1:34:01

        Well, okay. Th- so these kinds of conversations that we have are allowing the populations to realize that there is-- their s- loved ones do not need to be sacrificed for the good of industries that are generally considered profitable. They, in other words, the profitability of the industries are based on your sickness. Uh, and, and a lot of those comments came, "Oh, you c- you can't do anything." Yes, you can do something about it. When you're armed with the knowledge and people ignore the knowledge, then there's a problem.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:34:38

        Do people need to sort of self-advocate to some degree?

    17. TSThomas Seyfried1:34:41

        I think so.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:34:42

        With their, with, uh, care providers? What do they-

    19. TSThomas Seyfried1:34:45

        Yeah

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:34:45

        ... what advice-

    21. TSThomas Seyfried1:34:45

        I, I think that's a very delicate question.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:34:47

        Yeah.

    23. TSThomas Seyfried1:34:48

        The, the oncologist never heard of this stuff. They have never read these papers. They were never trained in medical school to know the biology and biochemistry of cancer. It was told to be a genetic disease. Theories are so important in science. For one thousand eight hundred years, people thought the work of Aristotle, his comments, and the mathematics of Claudius Ptolemy said that the Earth was the center of the solar system and all the planets, uh, a- and Sun revolved around the Earth, the geocentric theory, right? Copernicus struggled with the Ptolemy mathematics and realized that if he put the, the Sun in the center of the solar system and made Earth just another planet, a lot of the mathematics made sense. Kepler comes in and says, "These aren't circles, they're ellipticals." Galileo takes the telescope, sees the moons of Jupiter, and was able to look at and quantify where, where pl- uh, predict where planets would be in a certain period of time. Then they took poor Giordano Bruno. You know about this guy, Bruno? Oh, Steven, you gotta know Bruno. Your job is to know about the poor Bruno, who was burned alive by the Catholic Church for challenging the, the, the geocentric theory, and he became a martyr of science. So when you have established power structure, whether it's a religion or whether it's an industry or whatever, challenging that can be very, very hazardous.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:36:08

        Has it been hazardous for you?

    25. TSThomas Seyfried1:36:10

        Uh, listen, uh, no. I mean, I do what I do because I like. I just collect more and more data to support. Hazardous for me would be getting blindsided. Blindsided would be somebody coming at me with a piece of new data that I have never considered. I don't sleep. I, I think about this stuff all the time to avoid the blindside. My students are on the, on the alert for any paper that comes out that says cancer... Oh, cancer cells can burn fatty acids and ketone bodies. Oh, really? Let's go back through and dissect out their control experiments, and you find that every case there was always some glucose and glutamine in the media making it look like the fatty acids. So, so that's what bothers me. What bothers me is getting hit with a piece of data that undermines what we're, what we, our knowledge base is, and so far we haven't had that. Okay. It's st- we're standing on the shoulders of Otto Warburg, a, a giant in the field of biochemistry. He was thrown under the bus when everybody thought cancer was a genetic disease. My-- This paper goes back and shows exactly where Warburg made his mistakes and where we have rectified some of that, bringing the whole field back on where it should be. It is a mitochondrial metabolic disorder, and we can account for all of the phenotypes and characteristics of that disease knowing that. Now, with that knowledge, logical people and people interested in helping others will,

28. 1:37:27 – 1:39:45

    The #1 Actionable Takeaway

    1. TSThomas Seyfried1:37:27

       uh, will, uh, take advantage of that. We're not throwing out all these toxic chemicals. We're learning how to use them in a different way. And that's where the success is going to come

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:37:36

       So let's con- let's c- conclude with a, a actionable takeaway for people who are suffering themselves with, with cancers, um, or have someone in their family right now that is suffering from cancers. What is the actionable takeaway?

    3. TSThomas Seyfried1:37:48

       Well, I think the actionable takea- once this paper comes out, they can start taking action. If they are motivated enough-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:37:54

       They can read about this

    5. TSThomas Seyfried1:37:55

       ... they can read about it and then try to, like, just like you're doing.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:37:58

       Yeah.

    7. TSThomas Seyfried1:37:58

       No different. Get into these zones and then work with their oncologists, knowledgeable people to, to, to treat them with standards of care-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:09

       Yeah

    9. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:09

       ... as long as they can remain. And then we do non-invasive imaging, PET scans, C- uh, MRIs.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:14

        Okay. So specifically, what, what you're saying is this paper, I will link it below in the comment section-

    11. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:19

        Yeah

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:19

        ... for anyone that wants to read it. This graph will be on the screen throughout this episode anyway-

    13. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:22

        Yeah

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:22

        ... so people can screenshot it if they wanna have a look.

    15. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:24

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:24

        And the way that they test whe- what their GKI index is-

    17. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:29

        Yeah

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:29

        ... is they can buy one of these Keto-Mojo things-

    19. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:31

        Mm-hmm

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:31

        ... which you can get on Amazon for $20, $30. You prick your finger, it gives you the glucose reading.

    21. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:37

        Yeah.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:37

        You divide it by 18.

    23. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:38

        No, no. The, the new machines have the button. You just... So even the people don't have to do that.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:38:42

        Okay, fine. And yeah, as you can see on here, this is a, an interesting way to sort of increase your, your management, improve your management of, of some of these-

    25. TSThomas Seyfried1:38:53

        Yeah. And then there's a challenge to get into those zones. Um, you know, I'm not saying this is easy stuff. GLP-1 inhibitor, man, that's a hell of a lot easier than, than, than doing this.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:39:06

        And I should probably say, always consult with a medical professional.

    27. TSThomas Seyfried1:39:09

        Yeah. Um, I, I think, uh, because, you know, a lot of people, they have a lot of comorbidities. They have diabetes, high blood pressure, hy- hypertension, cancer. They have a... It's not a perfectly healthy person with cancer.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:39:22

        Mm-hmm.

    29. TSThomas Seyfried1:39:22

        So before you go in to challenge that, you need to have what you look like. You, you might look, you know, you might have to be adjusted in some way.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:39:30

        Yeah. And with-
29. 1:39:45 – 1:45:35

    Energy, Hope & Final Words

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:39:45

       did ketosis, and he collapsed, unconscious." He took him to the hospital. He had some comorbidity.

    2. TSThomas Seyfried1:39:49

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, the other thing, too, is you gotta be-- Some people have carnitine deficiencies. Carnitine prevents fatty acids from being made into ketone bodies.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:39:57

       Ah.

    4. TSThomas Seyfried1:39:57

       So, so, so they can be-- Carnitine supplementation can help them. But you need a physician to know this.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:40:04

       We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next. And the question left for you is on the subject of energy. What in your life has brought you the most energy, and what was the biggest energy drain you've ever experienced?

    6. TSThomas Seyfried1:40:17

       Well, this is bringing me the biggest energy [laughing] .

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:40:20

       This?

    8. TSThomas Seyfried1:40:21

       Well, not this, the whole concept. The idea that you have found, uh, Mother Nature has allowed you to look into the depths of, of, of what we consider the biology and biochemistry of how bodies work. And knowing how to take that and apply it to people that are suffering from all these different chronic diseases and giving them the opportunity to change that. Because before that, it was mysterious. "Oh, I'm do- I'm eating keto. I g-..." "What's your GKI?" "I, I don't know." Well, now you have a quantitative opportunity. That gets us. So we have a lot of evidence. I think people should be-- feel encouraged. I think we have given hope to the hopeless, and, and I think that's empowering. And the goal here is not to make a billion dollars. It's just to know that you've kept all these poor souls alive longer [chuckles] than they were projected to be, to be. And I think this power, that, and that keeps us going. Because when we see more and more people coming to me, I get emails back from people three or four years ago, and I said, "Gee, I thought you were a goner." And he goes, [chuckles] he says, "Oh, I'm doing really well. Just came back from a vacation with my wife." Well, that's empowering. I said, "Well, that's good." And don't forget, Steven, all of our research money comes from private foundations and philanthropy. So-

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:41:37

       So, so is that a way that people can help?

    10. TSThomas Seyfried1:41:39

        Yeah.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:41:39

        How, and where do they go to help?

    12. TSThomas Seyfried1:41:40

        Oh, uh, Travis Christopherson's foundation. So we, in my papers, they, we have the foundations that support, uh, our work, private foundations.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:41:49

        So I'll link them.

    14. TSThomas Seyfried1:41:49

        And there are occasionally... Yes, please link. There are occasionally people I know. I, and I, when I give kits of information to people, uh, I say, "Please consider making a donation only if it works for you." [chuckles]

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:42:01

        Yeah.

    16. TSThomas Seyfried1:42:02

        Don't charge them anything or ask them to pay something if it's not going to help them. If you were told to be dead in six months and y- six years later you're alive, maybe you throw us a few shekels into the private found- into the foundation supporting our work.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:42:15

        I'll link that foundation below in the comment section for you.

    18. TSThomas Seyfried1:42:17

        Yeah. We have a couple on breast cancer, on, on, on general, general, uh, um, support on the metabolic approach that we have. So we have a lot going. We're very excited. You can see all the papers we've published.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:42:28

        [chuckles]

    20. TSThomas Seyfried1:42:29

        Uh, and it's not like, um, uh, some of these are in top journals, some of them are in new journals, but, but the issue is we're, we're, we're, we're, we're publishing this, uh-

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:42:39

        My thing is, you know, I great, great, great respect for science and, and doctors and the medical profession. Go, go, go get your information. Speak to your medical provider. There's so many tools out there now. Go and check for yourself what you're doing.

    22. TSThomas Seyfried1:42:48

        Yeah. Well, I think in the oncology field, that's where we have this vast wasteland of misinformation or misunderstanding. Let's put it that way.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:42:55

        Mm-hmm.

    24. TSThomas Seyfried1:42:55

        They don't understand these concepts. Where, you know, people who have done heart work and bone work and replacements, those people are at the state of the art with this kind of stuff.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:43:03

        Well, the last conversation we had, it's reached about fifteen million people.

    26. TSThomas Seyfried1:43:06

        Yeah.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:43:06

        So on YouTube, it's got ten million views, and then across audio platforms, it's got another-

    28. TSThomas Seyfried1:43:09

        Yeah

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:43:09

        ... five or so million views.

    30. TSThomas Seyfried1:43:11

        Yeah, yeah.

Episode duration: 1:45:36