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“Dynamo Is Dead!” The Heartbreaking True Story Of Why Dynamo Vanished For Years!

If you enjoy hearing about the power of magic and challenge of creativity, I recommend you check out my conversation with the illusionist, Derren Brown, which you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVblCpr_qAc 00:00 Intro 3:20 When I Was a Child, My Dad Went to Prison. 6:43 My Dad Asked Me to Engage in Illegal Activities. 13:31 I Hated School; I Was Bullied. 17:43 Magic Was My Escape and My Way of Belonging. 21:23 How Crohn's Disease Changed My Life. 26:28 Becoming a World-Famous Magician. 30:30 I Was So Ill That I Was Vomiting Blood. 35:34 I Didn’t Know What to Do with My Life. 41:09 Self-Harming. 44:53 Hitting Rock Bottom. 46:32 I Tried to End My Life. 51:52 My Loved Ones Saved Me. 54:36 Legal Disputes. 58:38 Are You Still Dynamo? 1:04:51 Therapy Sessions. 1:06:25 Coping Mechanisms. 1:12:01 My Mum’s Toxic Relationships and My Resentment Towards Her. 1:18:21 Your New TV Show and Returning to Magic. 01:27:40 Magic Tricks. Dynamo is back! But not as you have known him before… 'Dynamo is Dead' On Sky Max: http://bit.ly/3RHqSWC Follow Dynamo: Instagram: https://bit.ly/4agid4C Twitter: https://bit.ly/3uTAKDH Sonic rest therapy: https://edcanhelp.io/ The Conversation Cards: https://bit.ly/4amtNew My new book! 'The 33 Laws Of Business & Life' is out now: https://smarturl.it/DOACbook Follow me: Instagram: http://bit.ly/3nIkGAZ Twitter: http://bit.ly/3ztHuHm Linkedin: https://bit.ly/41Fl95Q Telegram: http://bit.ly/3nJYxST Sponsors: Huel: https://try.huel.com/steven-bartlett WHOOP: https://join.whoop.com/en-uk/CEO

Dynamo (Stephen Frayne)guestSteven Bartletthost
Dec 14, 20231h 38mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:20

    Intro

    1. DF

      I can't turn off the noise. And if I saw myself in a mirror, I'd slam my head into the mirror and just keep slamming it to make it go away. That's why I disappeared.

    2. SB

      But it's not the only reason why you disappeared.

    3. DF

      Magic couldn't fix me.

    4. NA

      Dynamo! Illusionist and magician extraordinaire.

    5. DF

      Are you watching closely?

    6. SB

      Was there a moment you look back on and say, "That was my rock bottom."?

    7. DF

      The 6th of November, 2020 'cause that was the day, and I tried to kill myself.

    8. SB

      Your wife found you unconscious?

    9. DF

      In the dog bed. Magic's always been the thing that has given me hope, that I've used to overcome the bullying, overcome the racist abuse, and the lack of belief, and it made me stand out in a different way.

    10. NA

      Dynamo! Shout out to my homeboy, Dynamo.

    11. SB

      Everything you touch is turning to gold, and you become this sensation. And then in 2017, you stopped suddenly.

    12. DF

      I got really sick. I couldn't hold the cards anymore. My body was deteriorating.

    13. SB

      And then at that same time, your grandmother had passed away, who was your biggest supporter. I'd also heard that you'd had a legal dispute, which meant that you could no longer use the name Dynamo.

    14. DF

      I had so many problems, but I couldn't figure out how to even solve one of them. I felt if I'm not here, then everybody else might be happier. I realized then, the Dynamo as we know it needed to die. And I'm finally feeling it again. Now I just need to get magic back in my life.

    15. SB

      Dynamo, or should I say, Stephen, is there some magic you can show me right now? What?

    16. NA

      Oh, my god!

    17. SB

      I've never shared this before, but three years ago, Dynamo walked up to me when I was at a Christmas party. I'd never met him before, and he whispered something in my ear that, quite frankly, stopped me in my tracks, that I could not believe. I knew Dynamo as this incredible online magician, and what he said to me that day, I was unable to forget. He was in a dark, dark place. He was engaged in a legal battle, and he'd just lost the rights to use his own name. He could no longer call himself Dynamo. He was no longer able or allowed to do magic. And this stranger that had walked over to me at that Christmas party was suffering in a way that I've never seen before. And just a week ago, Dynamo texts me and said, "It's finally time to tell my story." And that is what you're going to hear today, the story he whispered in my ear at that Christmas party all those years ago. Where has Dynamo been? What happened? And what happens next? And before this episode starts, I want to make a deal with you. About 58% of you that watch this podcast frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button. If you enjoy what we do here, here's the deal that I wanna make with you. If you hit that subscribe button, I promise you that we will keep making this show better in every single way. And we have huge plans to turn this into more of a documentary-style conversation, where we work incredibly hard to bring in footage of the things we're talking about to give you greater context and greater meaning. So if you hit the subscribe button, I promise you that we will deliver an even greater version of this show. I hope you choose to come along on this journey. Enjoy this episode.

  2. 3:20 – 6:43

    When I Was a Child, My Dad Went to Prison.

    1. SB

      Dynamo, or should I say, Stephen.

    2. DF

      We're friends. You can call me whatever you like.

    3. SB

      (laughs) Stephen, in researching your story, I've been surprised, inspired, shocked, but in many ways, it's given me the context I think that was missing as to how a, a man like you committed their life to magic. For people that don't know your story, your earliest years, and the context back there in Bradford in 1982, what is the context that we need to understand in order to understand you?

    4. DF

      I think, ultimately, it's the ethos that sometimes magic is found in the most unlikely places. And I was a kid in a council estate with no hopes, no kind of, not much family around me, no real direction, and if anything, I should never have amounted to anything. So for me, just trying to not be confined by my environment, by my circumstances is the magic I've been searching for, all my life. And hopefully, I can use the magic I've now found to inspire others who might find themselves trapped in a similar position.

    5. SB

      Bradford, 1982, you, you said you didn't have a lot of family around you.

    6. DF

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      What family did you have and not have around you?

    8. DF

      I mean, I was, I was just born. So, you know, I can't remember exactly everything from literally '82.

    9. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    10. DF

      But from, say, '80... From '86, I believe that was when my dad went to jail. So he wasn't around any longer. Um, my mum was there, but she, she had me really young, but she will have been about, she'll have been about 20 then. So a young mum, um, losing, you know, losing her, her partner, who would've been raising me with her.

    11. SB

      So your mom had you at 16?

    12. DF

      Yeah. She was, she was pregnant at 16.

    13. SB

      Okay. Was there racial issues in your childhood? 'Cause I think you're... Are you biracial?

    14. DF

      Yeah, yeah. My father is Pathan. My mom's English.

    15. SB

      Okay, Pathan. I'm not familiar.

    16. DF

      Yeah. It's a, it's a tribe. Um, it's, it's parts of it in Afghanistan, parts of it in Pakistan. In fact, it's kind of scattered around the world.

    17. SB

      You must've been, what, four years old when he went to prison?

    18. DF

      Yeah.

    19. SB

      Did you understand what that meant?

    20. DF

      No. No, not at all. I, uh, I remember him going out and then just never coming back.It wasn't until I was a lot older that I kind of understood that he'd gone away and why he'd gone away. And, you know, and I kind of ... It's weird. Like, I was young enough that not having him around became a normal thing, like not having a father, you know. I was on a council estate where other people didn't have fathers around or mothers or, you know. We had a lot of broken families. So for me, it became just a normal way of life. I think if I'd have been a bit older and had more chance to understand more and miss more, then it would have maybe been harder.

  3. 6:43 – 13:31

    My Dad Asked Me to Engage in Illegal Activities.

    1. SB

      Did you resent him at that age when you started to realize what you had lost in a father?

    2. DF

      I think if I'm honest, I resented him more as an adult, as I got older. Like, I resented him more when I first met him properly after, you know, like when I'm- I'm- he- he came to, uh, Revolution Wine Bar in Bradford. And this was when I was 19 years old. And I'd started to make a little bit of a name for myself with my magic back then, you know. I'd, um, I'd- I think I'd applied for, like, a Prince's Trust start-up loan and all that sort of thing. I was, I was basically, you know, starting to go somewhere that was positive in my life. And I got called by the manager of Evolution saying, "Oh, there's a gentleman that says he's your dad, has come to see you. He said, 'I'm Dynamo's dad.'" And I'm like, "That's weird," because, like, I don't really feel like I've got a dad. So I'm like, "Okay, this is strange." And then I said, "Oh, well just tell him I'm busy right now. But if he wants to come in, in a couple of days time when I'm not working..." Because I was getting ready to do a set at the bar. I perform magic basically in Revolution Bar. And he came back a few days later. And, I mean, he kind of looked like me, so I kind of knew it was true. And I asked my mum about it, and she explained, you know, that, "Yeah, he's- he's not in jail anymore and he's been out and he's been asking about you." I think he tried to call my mum a few times. He'd call my nana's phone as well. And they'd always just kind of- You know, they- they saw that I was getting on with my life and I'd got used to a life without him in it. So they felt that it was best for me to not have him in my life. And then when I met him, it was so strange because he basically said that, "You've- you've got to- You know, I see you've got a lot of crew around you. Do any of your- your friends want to help shift some stuff for me?" And when I say stuff, I'm not talking about legal stuff. And at that point I was just like, "Wow, you know, he's- he's clearly not been reformed and I don't feel like he's the sort of person I need in my life right now," because I've spent a lot of my life trying to avoid this type of environment.

    3. SB

      How long had it been since you'd seen him at that moment?

    4. DF

      This was when I was 19, so from, say, four years old.

    5. SB

      So you hadn't seen him for, like, 15 years-

    6. DF

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      ... and the first time he sees you, he offers to- he asks you to help him shift some drugs?

    8. DF

      Yeah. Not just drugs, but yeah.

    9. SB

      Trying to figure out what else it could be if it's not dr- Okay.

    10. DF

      He was into stuff. Lots of stuff, you know. Um, and you know, that's- that's the life some people choose, you know what I mean? Like, um, I didn't know him enough to- to- to have a- to be able to say whether he was a good man or a bad man because, you know, end of the day, just because you do that sort of stuff doesn't necessarily ultimately make you a bad person. It can be the circumstances that lead you into that world.

    11. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    12. DF

      Um, but at the time in my life, you know, I'd been getting some incredible support from Mapper Youth Center in Bradford. I basically was surrounded by, for the first time in my life, positive role models from, uh- uh, you know, positive male role models. And part of me hoped that when I saw my dad that he could be one of those. But I think I was too far gone in the other direction, and he was going in a different direction, and it just wasn't meant to be. And, you know, like, I- I think then I just became indifferent. I just thought, "Well, you know what? I've gone this far without a father, so I don't really need one now."

    13. SB

      Resentment.

    14. DF

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SB

      Was that because you were still holding out hope that he was someone else or where- where did the resentment come from in that moment? You said that's when you resented him the most.

    16. DF

      Because I think he, they, he had in front of him an opportunity to connect with me, and he saw a different opportunity in that moment.

    17. SB

      He cared more about using you as a vehicle to sell drugs.

    18. DF

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    19. SB

      Are you still holding onto pain?

    20. DF

      Yeah, yeah. 100%. There's gonna be parts of that that will never be closed off, uh, because, um, sadly he's not alive anymore.

    21. SB

      People often say to me when I speak to them on this podcast about parents that they've lost that when we lose someone, it often changes our perspective on them and the situation, and often the- the issue that held us apart. When your mum came to you and told you that he had now passed away, is there anything you look back on and go, with that new perspective now that he's gone, and go, "Do you know what? This would have been a- probably a different or a better way of handling the situation"? Is there any regrets there at all?

    22. DF

      I can't really have regrets personally because the circumstance I was in was not of my making.

    23. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    24. DF

      You know, um...I was told by, by my grandma that — and my auntie as well, my Auntie Mel — they bo- they both would tell me passionately how much my mum and dad loved each other. But there was also an element that they said, "It's a good job that he went away" because if he'd have not gone away, it's highly likely that my mum and my s- and me would have been dead. Because he was apparently very abusive. And...

    25. SB

      To your mother?

    26. DF

      Yeah.

    27. SB

      Did, did you ever know this?

    28. DF

      No.

    29. SB

      Did you ever see this, or-

    30. DF

      No. I was t- like I wasn't really ... I think it was more before I was born and then, you know, I think ... Yeah. I was too young to really understand it. Like, I've - my mum's told me about stuff mo- more recently, and, you know, my auntie and ... as I've been like, you know, uncovering things about myself. Like, I've asked more questions.

  4. 13:31 – 17:43

    I Hated School; I Was Bullied.

    1. SB

    2. DF

      Mm. I liked learning. I liked trying to understand things. But did I like school? I was scared of school.

    3. SB

      Why?

    4. DF

      Just 'cause I used to get beat up all the time. Like, it was ... School, for me, f- was painful. But it wasn't the learning aspect of it. It was getting to and from the lessons, you know, surviving the playground. Right? That, for me, was difficult because I went to a school that was predominantly a, you know, a, a more white school so let's, let's say. And, you know, I was getting to an age where my complexion started to show, so it was obvious that I wasn't full English, so it was a lot harder to hide because I was told when I lived on the estate, you know, I was recommended by everybody, you know, by my mum, by my nan, by just anybody who was r- was close to my family at the time, "If anybody asks, just say you're white." You know, it was kind of ingrained in where we lived to hate anything that is different.

    5. SB

      I read about a story that, where someone threw you into a river? I believe?

    6. DF

      Oh, yeah. The dam. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was, um ... So one of the estates I lived on — I lived on quite a few council estates in Bradford we- depending on where my mum's boyfriends lived, or girlfriends, um, at the time. So, so I remember, there's Delford Estate, and then there's Woodside Estate, and separating them is a big massive field, and in the middle of the field is a dam. And it was where, like, all the cool kids would kinda go to hang out. And I wasn't one of the cool kids. But, like, one time I got invited down there, so I thought, "Oh, amazing. You know, I'm finally being accepted." And when I got there, they only invited me down there to kind of throw me in the dam. They knew I couldn't swim. Like, I didn't, I didn't have a, an adult to teach me how to swim till... I didn't learn to swim till I was like, you know, 14, 15. So they threw me in the dam, and it was one of the most traumatizing experiences I'd felt at that time. Thankfully, there was one guy on the estate, Wayne Jowett, um, who basically dived in and helped me out, and, you know, he was (laughs) a really good swimmer. He could, he could, um, get me to safety. And, yeah. Like, stuff like that happened all the time, though. It wasn't like, you know ... I can remember that because I couldn't swim, and if you've ever experienced that panic that you get when you, you know, when you feel like you're drowning, that'll stay with you.

    7. SB

      Mm.

    8. DF

      Um, you know, I don't like going, you know ... I don't like going into the sea and stuff like that, you know. 'Cause I ... s- like getting into water in general is not my, uh, favorite thing.

    9. SB

      You and me both. I can't swim either, so ... I remember the first time I nearly drowned, and I remember the person that jumped in and saved me when I was a kid as well. Remember it like it was yesterday.

    10. DF

      Mm.

    11. SB

      So ...

    12. DF

      Yeah. So, like, that experience happened, you know ... It happened on the way to school, it happened after school, you know. So for me, the, the thought of going to school was always like a daunting notion. There were certain teachers, like Mrs. Wilcox, you know, like, uh, she was my English teacher, and she was really nice, and she was really nurturing, and I didn't feel stupid in front of her. Because if ... in a lot of the classes when, you know, when the teacher's asking you to get involved, I was so nervous of other people's opinions in the class that if I spoke up, if I, if I ans- put my hand up to answer a question and that it was wrong, then that just was gonna lead to more getting beaten up harder after school, or, you know, more ridicule. So, I kinda kept myself to myself, but at the same time I was just like this, this, like, sad loner kid who would take the long way home so I didn't get beat up.

  5. 17:43 – 21:23

    Magic Was My Escape and My Way of Belonging.

    1. SB

      I remember speaking to Israel Adesanya, who was the UFC World Champion, and him telling me a very similar story about taking the long way round school so that he would avoid the bullies on the playground and all of those things. Again, in his situation it was heavily racially motivated. He, uh, was this kid that had flown to New Zealand from Africa, he was the Black kid, and so he was ... He ultimately turns to fighting as a way to help him survive.

    2. DF

      Yeah. I mean, he's, he's very good at it.

    3. SB

      Very good at it.

    4. DF

      I've, I've seen him. He's, he's amazing.

    5. SB

      Well, I, I think about your story and I go-In a way, did, did you turn to magic as a way to help you to survive?

    6. DF

      Ultimately, that's where I ended up. But I didn't turn to magic, magic kind of found me. 'Cause it was never something I was into initially. It was something that my grandpa used to do. He'd do tricks here and there, you know, little like, the sort of things you see a guy do in a pub. You know, nothing like super amazing. But, to me, he was like kind of the main male role model in my life. And he was always the life of the party, you know. And he seemed to have an answer to every single problem. And one day when he was picking me up from school, like he saw the sort of things that was happening to me, and I never knew he saw this, but you know, he'd always get to the school playground early, so that, you know, so he didn't want to be late for picking me up. And often I'd walk out the door and straightaway I'd kind of get in a fight or get, you know, get caught up in something. And he'd kind of stay ... like he never really got involved, but he saw it kind of get quite bad one day and when he was walking home, he's telling me he's gonna sh- like show me some things, you know, that might help me. And I'm thinking, "Oh, yeah, it's gonna be like Karate Kid, you know, Mr. Miyagi," you know? (laughs) Like, but it wasn't any of that stuff. He, he s- he showed me magic and he says, you know, "These things, the- they get me positive attention when I'm out and about when I show these things, so maybe, maybe try these." And I was scared at school about trying them because I'm like thinking, "Well, I'm already seen as this weird or this outcast. Like how is ..." Now, you know, he's, he's sharing magic with people, 'cause magic wasn't like a cool thing. Thankfully it made me stand out in a different way and it deflected attention from me and so there was definitely some people that, you know, shunned it, didn't like it, but there was enough people that thought it was interesting and, you know, kind of c- kinda cool that it got people off my back. That was really where the magic began, pr- properly like before that point, it was, you know, it was something that I was using to deflect attention from the other areas of my life that I was trying to hide.

    7. SB

      It's, um, it's quite remarkable how many times I've heard similar stories about someone finding a way to belong through a craft or through singing or through acting, whatever it might be, and then them committing their life to that. It's almost like they become addicted to it in some way, and it ... I guess the issue is when you ask yourself the question, "What am I now without it? Do I therefore not belong if I don't do magic?"

    8. DF

      Mm-hmm. Yep. I know that feeling all too well.

  6. 21:23 – 26:28

    How Crohn's Disease Changed My Life.

    1. DF

    2. SB

      I'm sure we're gonna come to that. Um, qu- at about 13 years old in '95, you're diagnosed with Crohn's disease, which is very young, I believe, to be diagnosed with Crohn's disease, which is a lifelong disease. Um, it's like a severe inflammation related to irritable bowel syndrome from what I understand.

    3. DF

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      And it can be life-threatening as well.

    5. DF

      Yeah, yeah. Um, I've had a, a few moments where I've had life, like life-threatening operations.

    6. SB

      How does that change the picture at 13 years old with that diagnosis, and what led up to that diagnosis?

    7. DF

      Well, before the diagnosis, I'd got to, you know, my teenage years where you, you know, you kind of start to have changes, right? You're going through puberty. And I was definitely like a bit of a slow starter. I was still, you know, uh, all the kids at school were getting bigger and I was getting smaller. Or I wasn't getting smaller, but they, they were getting bigger and I was just basically wasn't really kind of-

    8. SB

      Growing.

    9. DF

      ... growing at the same rate. And my mum started to take me to the hospital to get tests done to try and figure out, you know, what was up with me. Which I understand why my mum would do that, but at the same time, for a kid who feels like they don't belong, to then be taken to hospital to have tests done on me to figure out what's wrong with me, like suddenly I'm like, "Well, all right, I don't belong and I've got something wrong with me." I mean, this is, you know, like what is the point in me, you know? Am I broken? Do you know what I mean?

    10. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. DF

      So, I mean, there clearly, there clearly was issues, um, and they found that I had Crohn's disease, and I guess now I feel that's quite a, is an incredibly good thing to have done. The problem was back then, there wasn't enough known about Crohn's as there is now.

    12. SB

      Right.

    13. DF

      The doctors understand it a lot more. They understand how to treat it and people are a lot more open to, you know, to it. You know, essentially it's an illness that affects your bowels which ultimately affects, you know, shit (laughs) and, and how your body digests things. And that's not the sort of topics that, you know, are that easy to talk about, um, especially when you're, you know, a teenager going through your formative years, you know?

    14. SB

      Is there a lot of pain associated with Crohn's disease?

    15. DF

      Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Stomach cramps, um, you know, it's ... I mean, if I don't take my medication I'm on at the moment, I can struggle to walk or to even get out of bed-

    16. SB

      Really?

    17. DF

      ... in the day. Yeah. It's like having a, a wound inside your tummy.And it's like an open wound. And every time you eat, you're essentially, it's like rubbing dirt into an open wound, so it's never gonna heal. It's gonna constantly keep getting infected, and it's gonna constantly keep being inflamed. And because it's inside you, like, you know, your gut affects every part of your body.

    18. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. DF

      You know? So, and then it has side effects, which one of those, one of the side effects is reactive arthritis, which is what I suffer from, where if my Crohn's flares up, which can be brought on from simple things like just, just everyday stress. Like, or t- you don't have to just eat something for it to be bad. Like, you can, you can have a stressful day, and it can, you know, give you a stomachache, which then can ultimately spread to the rest of your body and make you feel debilitated. And that, if you've got reactive arthritis, it means that all your joints start to seize up and ache, um, hence why sometimes I struggle to walk and kind of function. And, you know, you, you kind of need your mobility to be a good magician. So, you know, for me-

    20. SB

      Mm-hmm. Most people don't.

    21. DF

      ... when, yeah, when that happens, it stops me from being able to perform the way that, that I've kind of grown to love.

    22. SB

      And that will then have knock-on effects that are psychological.

    23. DF

      Yeah. And every case of Crohn's is different, you know, it affects people in different ways. But, but ultimately, yeah, i- i- imagine stomach, having stomachache just all the time and being scared to eat because you don't wanna, you know, eat something and it, it ruin, it take, it wipe you out for the rest of the day.

    24. SB

      Wow. So you, um, you go to this new sixth form college. You end up dropping out of college because you decide you wanna pursue magic full-time. And then you go off to America, where you stayed with your grandmother in America. By the age of sort of 17 years old, you have that operation for your Crohn's, which removes part of your stomach. And then at sort of 20 years old, you end up back in London, and that's when you started to sort of gain a following for your performances online. I think,

  7. 26:28 – 30:30

    Becoming a World-Famous Magician.

    1. SB

      you know, most of us saw that chapter of your life, I believe, most of us, um, through videos on social media, stuff on TV, and all of that. And from there on, it really looks like your career starts to take off. Because I, I was looking through your biography, and at 22 years old, you receive an invitation to perform at the United States Super Bowl. By 29 years old, you have your own TV show called Dynamo Magician Impossible. And then that show's a smash hit, wins all these awards, best entertainment program. Is that really in your view where things started to take off? You're 29 years old, 30 years old, everything you touch has turned into gold, and you become this kind of sensation.

    2. DF

      I guess that depends on what you class as, like, what is success?

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. DF

      Right? Because for me, the s- the beginning of success where things started to take off was when I got my Prince's Trust Business Starter Plan.

    5. SB

      You were what, when you were 16 or something, or?

    6. DF

      No, I was a bit, I was a bit older.

    7. SB

      18?

    8. DF

      It was, um, it was 2002.

    9. SB

      So, 20?

    10. DF

      Mm-hmm. And like before that point, I thought, "One day I'm gonna have to grow up. Or one day I'm gonna have to get, you know, g- like..."

    11. SB

      A real job.

    12. DF

      Yeah. Yeah.

    13. SB

      That's what people say, right?

    14. DF

      Yeah. I, yeah, uh, you know, I think right up until, uh, you know, right up until, like, my grandpa died and, and my nana passed, you know, I think they were still thinking that I might get, come, come home one day and say, "Oh, I've got a proper job, nan," you know?

    15. SB

      When was that?

    16. DF

      Uh, my grandpa died in 2012, right? And he, he died in the middle of my second series of, of Magician Impossible. So, he got to see some of his, like, the way he nurtured me and helped me and shared that magic, he got to see some of that magic get brought to life on screen. So I was, that's probably some of my proudest moments. But then my, uh, my nana, um, sadly, she passed in the last couple of years. Um, I don't think, I don't think anybody really knows about my nana passing, um, outside of, you know, my family and my friends. Um, and for me, like, my nana was my biggest supporter for everything. But I know that she was always worried about me 'cause she always thought that this magic thing wouldn't work out, and she wanted me to have something to fall back on. You know, when I dropped out of college to pursue magic as, you know, as that's just all I wanted to do, you know, she was very worried. She was, she was the one trying to tell me that I should not fall out, I need to get, you know, get an education. And in many respects, you know, the advice she was giving was, you know, was good advice. But luckily things kind of turned out all right for the ma- in the magic.

    17. SB

      I mean, it turned out all right is quite an understatement. You were Magician of the Year multiple times. The t- tv show Magician Impossible then won the TV Choice Awards as Best Entertainment Show. You ended that Dynamo Magician Impossible show after its fourth seas- season, I believe. Um, and then you embarked on your first live tour called Seeing is Believing. And then in, when you're 35 years old in 2017, you stopped that tour suddenly.

    18. DF

      Yeah, I think the, the tour kind of run its course.

    19. SB

      Right.

    20. DF

      Uh, we, we did it, we, we did over like, you know, we, we did a lot of countries and a lot of tickets, and it was amazing. You know, I'm- I like try and push and be humble up with magic and with everything I do. And I felt like that time on the road gave me time to have a lot of new ideas, and I felt like I wanted to try and bring some of those ideas to life. But some of those ideas had to get put on hold, uh, 'cause it was shortly after that that I got really sick with my Crohn's.

    21. SB

      Wow.

  8. 30:30 – 35:34

    I Was So Ill That I Was Vomiting Blood.

    1. NA

      What happened?

    2. DF

      Got, uh, food poisoning and that gave me a, a campylobacter, um, food poisoning, which basically is, like, probably the worst type of food poisoning you can get. And that, combined with my Crohn's, was a rep- recipe for disaster. So, basically, I was in hospital. I, I just remember, it was like 10 o'clock. And I was getting ready to go bed and I went to the bathroom. And I had this, like, horrible feeling in my stomach. But I've got Crohn's, so like I'm used to kind of having to numb these, these feelings. You know? I'm used to just thinking, "Oh, okay. It's gonna be uncomfortable for like half an hour, then it'll pass." Right? And it wasn't going away. And then suddenly, like, blood was coming out of my mouth. I was vomiting. I was ... Blood was coming out of both sides. Right? That's, yeah. Uh, and I didn't know what to do. Like it would- it wouldn't stop. I was in so much pain. Um, I was screaming my wife, like ... And literally, I got rushed to hospital. And they gave me, you know, they gave me all the medication to try. You know, they put me on the drip and the morphine, everything. And nothing was getting rid of the pain. Like I never felt a pain like it. And I just did not understand what it was like. And what ... Because of that, it caused my Crohn's to kind of ... Even though I'd had so much of my Crohn's cut out already in previous operations, it caused it to spread into a different part of my bowel. And from that came the reactive arthritis, because in the part of the bowel that it moved to had different side effects that I'd never had before.

    3. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    4. DF

      Like, I remember, like, just getting these sensations where I, you know ... I'd got kind of over the ... You know, a few months later, I'd, I'm, I'm over the, like, food poisoning element of it, you know? I'm, I'm out of hospital. I'm kind of, you know, trying to get on with my life. But I'd be holding my cards. You know, I'd be doing, you know, magic, like things that ... You know, stuff that I do in my sleep, right? But suddenly I was getting, like, shooting pains in my joints. And I was, it was like electric shocks. I was like, I couldn't hold the cards anymore. I was struggling to move. You know, like I'd be in a seat and I wouldn't be able to get up because, like, my knees would be like, like stuck. And I'd never had that experience before. And I, I suddenly felt like Mr. Burns. You know, from The Simpsons?

    5. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    6. DF

      You know, like, he seems really f- like frail and weak. And I felt like I was, you know, I was ... I wasn't old. I was like, I felt like I should be in my prime. You know what I mean? And I couldn't understand it. I felt like my body was deteriorating around me. And so I went basically on medical trials for the next few years. Um, and the thing is with medical trials is that when you try a new medicine, you have to try it for three months before the doctors will s- write that off as not working and try you on a new medication. But there was times when I knew within the first two weeks it wasn't working, but I had to go the full three months. And in those three months, you know, my symptoms weren't getting better. If anything, they'd get worse. And it, you know, it wasn't till we got to the ninth month where I started this medication called infliximab, where you have to go to the hospital every few weeks and you get put on a drip for ... And you stay there for like eight hours. And they basically put this medicine inside you. And that really had an incredible effect. Like that gave me a new lease of life. I felt stronger. I probably felt stronger than I'd felt before I was on it. But then COVID happened. Um, it stopped my infliximab from working. So suddenly, I mean, 2020 and I'm on medical trials again. And I tried, um, you know, I tried so many different medications. Uh, and it, it was, it wasn't till like the beginning of 2021 where I really got one that was really working properly. Um, and even now I'm on that, but it still, I still have like ... I have three days a week where I'm really bad, where my joints just don't really work that well. Um, and my Crohn's, my stomach feels bad. But yeah, that, that was a big part of the reason why I, uh, kind of, I guess disappeared for

  9. 35:34 – 41:09

    I Didn’t Know What to Do with My Life.

    1. DF

      a while.

    2. NA

      But it's not the only reason why you disappeared for a while.

    3. DF

      Yeah. I think, um, everything that my body was going through, everything that I was going through, the pressures of, you know, trying, you know, like wanting to do magic and the pressures of trying to sustain a career and live up to people's expectations, um, was almost an impossible task to do whilst I was trying to fix my body. And ultimately, it l- you know, I ended up in a situation where without magic, without being able to do what I loved, not knowing if I was ever gonna be able to get it back, made me think, "What's the point in my existence?" And I think my body was kind of imploding and so was my mind.

    4. SB

      What was going on in your mind?

    5. DF

      I didn't know what to do with my life. Didn't know what to do with myself. Um, there's a lot of things that I don't wanna fully go into, so ... But I'll try and, you know, be as, give you as much as I can. There was just so much noise in my head. And I hated myself for feeling how I felt. I hated the m- way my body felt because of, you know, because of everything I was dealing with. If I saw myself in a mirror in my house, I hated what was looking back at me. I hated it so much that I'd slam my head into the mirror and just keep slamming it to try and just either, you know, make it go away. And, yeah, I don't know. I didn't, I didn't wanna be alive because I didn't feel like the life I had, take away all the, the success and, you know, that side of things, I wasn't, I wasn't living because I wasn't able to do the thing I loved the most, which was magic. And it was, it was a time in my life where I felt that magic couldn't fix me. But magic's always been the thing that has given me hope, that I've kind of used to overcome the bullying, overcome the self-doubt and the lack of belief from others and in my, and in my own self. And suddenly, I'm in a position where I don't know what to do with myself and magic isn't gonna fix it. And I can't, I can't ... Until I'm fixed, I can't do the thing that gives me a reason, that gives me a purpose in performing magic. I can't do that because I'm not mentally or physically capable.

    6. SB

      How long did that, that last?

    7. DF

      I'm still dealing with it now, to be honest. Like, it, it's difficult because I'm a magician, right? And to everybody else looking at me as a magician, I'm someone who does the impossible, I'm someone who kind of should be able to do anything. But I'm a magician who can't, who felt like, you know, back then and, you know, and still at times now, I'm a magician who feels like I can't do the first thing that a magician needs to do, perform magic. So then, I'm just an imposter. I can't live up to the expectations that people have of me. And it's not that I ... I'm not the sort of person who, like, searches for validation from other people, you know. Like, I mean, you know, magic is not an art form that is seen as the coolest thing ever. Do you know what I mean? It's, it, I, you know, I, I'd have set myself up to fail if, if, you know, if ... By, by following through with magic, um, if I'd have been naive to that point. Do you know what I mean? And I know that magic's never been cool, right? And, you know, I hope that in some small way I've helped to make it feel a bit cooler than maybe what it was perceived as. But magic's the only thing that I'm good at, and I think the way that I can manipulate my body and, you know, kind of handle cards and do the things is a big part of what's made my magic unique and feel special. And not being able to do that kills me.

    8. SB

      Am I right

  10. 41:09 – 44:53

    Self-Harming.

    1. SB

      in thinking that at that same time, your grandmother had passed away, who was your biggest supporter?

    2. DF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      Your body was breaking down because of Crohn's and your illness around that time as well. And I'd also heard that you had had a legal dispute with your management. Which meant that you could no longer use your social media channels, the name Dynamo, et cetera, et cetera. And that it all happened in this concentrated period of your life.

    4. DF

      There was, there was a lot of stuff going on. And yeah, like, you know, I, I think losing my nana ultimately was, I think, the thing that, I guess, the straw that broke the camel's back. Is there an expression we use? Because she's always been the backbone for me. Whenever I felt weak, and there's been a lot of times I felt weak, my nana's always been strong for me. And then, with a lot of things going on in my life, being, my li- with my life being flipped upside down, you know, and then my nana going as well, it was just like, man. Like, you know, the li- like, it just felt like the world was out to get me. And I kinda wanted the ground to just break open and just swallow me up.

    5. SB

      If I was a fly on the wall in your house at that time, what would I have seen?

    6. DF

      Hmm.... a lot of stuff that I don't really want, I wouldn't want anybody to see. Like ... I wasn't very nice to myself. There's a lot of pain, but also a lot of numbness. And I felt that ... Ironically actually, I didn't feel. Like, I felt so numb that I'd hurt myself to try and feel something.

    7. SB

      S- self-harming?

    8. DF

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SB

      Does your, does your partner know what's going on in your life, inside your head during this period? 'Cause I, 'cause I have a, I have a partner. And I, if I was in such a dark place where I was self-harming, and doing some of the things you've described, b- banging my head against the mirror, and I was in that sort of cy- cycle of self-hatred, my partner, I, I think my partner would, would, would know.

    10. DF

      Hmm. Yeah. She knew. She, she maybe didn't know the extent of it to begin with. And I think also the, the loss side of things, you know, she obviously felt that herself. So I think those things, she's dealing with it, dealing with her own grief-

    11. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    12. DF

      ... at the same time. So sometimes when you're dealing with grief, you, it's hard to see outside of your own grief to see other people's.

    13. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    14. DF

      You know what I mean? Um, and we were kind of almost together in those moments, you know. We came together like, you know ... But she, she was the one who ultimately got me to go to therapy, and to get the help and support that I needed really.

  11. 44:53 – 46:32

    Hitting Rock Bottom.

    1. DF

    2. SB

      In this chapter, was there, was there a moment you look back on and say, "That was, that was my rock bottom"?

    3. DF

      Mm-hmm. Yep, the 6th of November 2020.

    4. SB

      The 6th of November 2020?

    5. DF

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      Almost three years ago today. Exactly, almost. Why was that the hardest day?

    7. DF

      'Cause that was the day that I knew that she knew, 'cause she found me and I tried to kill myself.

    8. SB

      She found you in the house?

    9. DF

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SB

      She found you unconscious?

    11. DF

      Yep, in the dog bed.

    12. SB

      What are you comfortable talking about?

    13. DF

      I mean, I'm not super comfortable at life generally. So, you know, just talking. This is the first time I've kind of done an, an interview that's not been with a therapist s- in, since 2020. So, you know, I, I, I trust you. You've, you know, we've, you've been a bit of a, you've been a help for me over the last few years. So, I guess, if you're respectful, and I respect what you'll do with what I say, we'll be done,

  12. 46:32 – 51:52

    I Tried to End My Life.

    1. DF

      and about where-

    2. SB

      There's two, there's two things, there's two things. I want you to feel comfortable about whatever you say. But also, after this conversation, if there's anything you, you, you're not comfortable with having said, you can, of course, let me know, and it won't be, it won't be out there in the world. But I, I wanna, um ... I think the, the question that I un- uh, like, that I think is of most f- u- value is understanding how someone gets to that point. I've, I've actually spent quite a long time speaking to Simon Gunning, who's the CEO of CALM, Campaign Against Living Miserably.

    3. DF

      Yeah, yeah.

    4. SB

      Um, and he's done a really great job of helping me to understand suicidality as a topic. But also, when I have a public platform like this, where I speak on this, these subject matters occasionally, about what elements of that are useful for people that are in that mindset now. And what he's shared with me is, part of it is un- people understanding that some-, how someone gets there, but also understanding how they go from there, and they rise out of that situation. What was, what was on your mind when, that led you up to that moment?

    5. DF

      I felt that I had so many problems, but I couldn't figure out how to even solve one of them. And the problems weren't just affecting me, they were affecting my household. They were affecting, you know, just my family's life. And a big part of me thought, "If I'm dead, then my problems won't affect these other people in my life, and they will be all right." 'Cause I felt like, ultimately, I was the problem.It was quite a simple, kind of... That, that was it. It was like, "Okay. If I'm not here, then everybody else might be happier, and they can get on with their lives." And, you know, like... That was it.

    6. SB

      Your wife founds y- finds you that day in the dog bed, and then she calls an ambulance?

    7. DF

      No, she called Edward Despot, who is my doctor. He's, he's my, my gastroenterologist, my colon specialist. And then, I remember... Well, she was on the phone to him when I kind of came round, and she was just crying. And that's... Well, you asked me a moment where it feels like it was the worst. I'd probably hurt myself worse on previous occasions, but I'd never been found by the one person in this life whose opinion I genuinely care about. And no matter what I do now, in the future, there's nothing I can do that can erase what she saw. And that's the thing I'm the most ashamed of, because in the moment, I felt like I was trying to maybe do something that would take all the problems I thought I was facing and remove them from everybody else's world. But I'd not actually thought about what these people would feel if I wasn't here. Do you know what I mean?

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. DF

      So, that's th- the shame that I feel for that. I don't feel ashamed for feeling the way I did, but I feel ashamed that my wife kinda saw that. Like, it's, it's just embarrassing, innit? 'Cause she's the person I'm supposed to be strong for, you know? She's the person who relies on me. I'm, you know... I'm the, I'm the husband that... Not... I don't mean that, like... I know we live in a modern world, you know, where, you know, you don't... It's... But, like, I'm supposed to be there to be strong for her, and I couldn't even be strong for myself.

    10. SB

      Can I

  13. 51:52 – 54:36

    My Loved Ones Saved Me.

    1. SB

      ask you a question? In that... When someone is in that situation as you were, psychologically, what do you think those around them can do to support that person? Or do you think there's very little those around... I'm trying to really understand how to support someone, you know, in my life, that would be in such a, such a mindset?

    2. DF

      I mean, I guess what my wife did. Like, not, not just call... You... Naturally, you would call someone for help, like a doctor or something like that. But, I mean, even though I still feel it, and I can't necessarily speak on her behalf. But she didn't make me feel ashamed.

    3. SB

      She loves you, doesn't she?

    4. DF

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      It's one of the greatest gifts, isn't it? To have someone in your life like that, that you know just loves you through thick and thin.

    6. DF

      From the ex- from the experience, and how she's been... E- even up till now, you know? How she dealt with it and dealt with me. And I think it's the first time, outside of my nana, out- outside of family who, you know... They have to do it. It's unconditional, right? 'Cause they're family, they're blood. But it's the first time that I have actually felt the love of somebody else. Like... Because we'd been married a long time before then, but, you know, you, you just never know what someone's gonna act like when shit really hits the fan.

    7. SB

      When they see you naked.

    8. DF

      Yeah. And I was exposed. I was... Uh, uh, you can't get any more exposed than, than what I felt. And she became the rock. She, she gave me a love that I've never had to, to deal with it. And, you know? It's... Yeah. That is something that I didn't necessarily maybe know I needed in my life until that moment, and that ultimately has kept me alive.

  14. 54:36 – 58:38

    Legal Disputes.

    1. DF

    2. SB

      Around this time, there's a dispute with your management. What are you able to tell me about that? 'Cause I know it's a legal dispute, so there's things that probably can't talk about. But I think it's important context to understand what you're going through in this moment, as it relates to your sense of purpose and identity and all those things. What are you able to tell me?

    3. DF

      I think...I was at a time in my life where I felt lost, and I knew if I, you know, stayed doing things exactly the same way that I'd always done them, then you're only gonna get kind of the same results, right? You know, if I'm, if I'm feeling suicidal thoughts, and I'm feeling kind of, like, worthless, then the only way to break that cycle is to have a fresh start. Just needed to break away from everything, and ultimately, you know, you've started many businesses, and, you know, I'm sure some of those have failed, and some of those have, you know... You, you had to have, you know-

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. DF

      ... gone your separate ways at times. Um, so that happens in business, um, and I think there was a lot of work needed to be done on myself.

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. DF

      And I just had to take time away from that. Like, um... Yeah. I can't really, uh, touch on-

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. DF

      ... it too much. I'm trying to be extremely-

    10. SB

      Yeah, yeah. No, it's all good.

    11. DF

      ... careful what I say.

    12. SB

      It's all good.

    13. DF

      Um-

    14. SB

      I'm actually quite interested in the c- not what happened, but the consequence of what happened. So 'cause I've noticed you've not been posting on social media in a while, for example. So I assumed that one of the consequences of this separation with your management was you've not, you've not been able to use your social media accounts, and we've not seen you on the internet as much. Is that a correct assumption?

    15. DF

      I don't feel like I've wanted to kind of post things, because I felt like my life isn't been worth sharing. So, you know, whilst I've been trying to fix myself, I, I didn't feel comfortable kind of sharing in those moments, and kind of just let the lawyers do what they do and figure that stuff out. Because I'm, I'm t- I'm too busy trying to figure out what's going on in my own head, you know, how to kind of just get to a place in this world where I can deal with the pressure of life. Ultimately, all I wanted to do, which is, you know, what's led me to here with you today, is get to a place in my life where I could share magic again. And even if my arthritis and my crohn's stopped me doing it in the way I used to, I had to find a new way to share it. And there's certain things in the past that I've had to go through, negative experiences, you know. There's positive experiences. But ultimately, I've had to go through those things to learn and grow from

  15. 58:38 – 1:04:51

    Are You Still Dynamo?

    1. DF

      them, and some things I've had to leave behind. And I'm-

    2. SB

      Speaking of things you've left behind, are you still Dynamo?

    3. DF

      Part of me is always Dynamo. Yeah, course. Like... And... But the thing is, I've battled with knowing who... They almost, like... There's been a battle between me and myself, because... the lines are so blurred, or were so blurred, between, you know, the Stephen that you know-

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. DF

      ... and the Dynamo that, you know, the, the greater world kinda knows. So then, like, it's just been... It's been a lot of confusion-

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. DF

      ... like, in simple terms. It's been a lot of confusion, because... Dynamo is the part of me that feels like it can do anything. But Stephen's a flawed human being that realizes and knows that he can't. And it's a conflict. And then when my body's falling apart, my life's falling apart, I'm losing everything in my life outside of magic that I love, then... I'm just an empty shell. And... that's the sort of feeling that makes you think, like, "What is the point? Why am I here?" Like, I am worthless to this world... if I can't share the only thing that I feel I'm good at.

    8. SB

      People will be s- sat thinking, "Why can't you share it?"

    9. DF

      Because... partly... for some reasons that...... you know, were outside of my control.

    10. SB

      Mm-hmm. Legal related reasons?

    11. DF

      Some.

    12. SB

      Yeah.

    13. DF

      And, yeah, sure. Um, you know, and then partly because mentally I wasn't free. Like, I need to be free in my head to create material-

    14. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. DF

      ... to create the magic I share. But all that was in my head is horrible things, is things that I can't shut off. I can't turn off the noise, so then there's no space for magic to find its way in. So, I, I guess it'd be like the equivalent to writer's block, like magic writer's block. Like-

    16. SB

      Yeah.

    17. DF

      ... I don't know if that's a real thing, but-

    18. SB

      Yeah.

    19. DF

      ... that's the only way I'm trying to simply explain it.

    20. SB

      The way that I heard it from what you just said about the noise was, "I can't write if there's loud music playing with lots of lyrics in it. So when I, when I do writing, I have to turn off loud music with lyrics in it, or else I can't, my brain can't focus on both." So I was almost imagining being in a room with really loud music playing, and then me trying to think and write, and I just wouldn't be able to.

    21. DF

      Yeah. Like, like my body was not allowing me to perform in the physical sense in the way that I want it to, you know. I was, you know, some of the medication was working well and I was doing good, but then, like, mentally, like, I wasn't in a fit state to do magic, you know. And because of things that were going on behind the scenes, I also, it was really complicated, you know, um, even getting work. And then naturally with that, you know, is gonna come financial pressures, which is, is the last thing you need when you're also dealing with everything else. So, ultimately, I had too many horrible thoughts in my mind to try... I had too many problems to solve to even think about magic. But then me not thinking about magic, you just, then that's a, that's a depressing notion-

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. DF

      ... because-

    24. SB

      Because that's so much of your purpose and meaning and joy and...

    25. DF

      Yeah. And it's not just tricks. It's not, you know, I'm not, when I talk about magic in this sense, like there's the, there's the card tricks, there's the things that people see, right? But for me, magic is a feeling. It's something you experience in your body when you witness something that you can't explain, or when you see something that feels impossible, but feels like unobtainable, right?

    26. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    27. DF

      Putting a smile on someone's face is a magical thing, and that's what I've spent my life doing. But the irony is, I was in a position where I couldn't put a smile on my own face, so how am I meant to do that for anybody else if I can't, you know, if I can't do the, the simplest thing for myself?

    28. SB

      And you

  16. 1:04:51 – 1:06:25

    Therapy Sessions.

    1. SB

      go to therapy at this point, you said?

    2. DF

      Yeah. My wife was on the phone when she found me to, um, to Ed Despot, who's my gastroenterologist, right? And then he, he, um, put my wife in touch with, with a therapist, um, called Edward Sim. And I had some sessions with him initially, but this type of therapy can be quite expensive.

    3. SB

      Yeah.

    4. DF

      So, like, I got, like, the first few bills and I was like, "I can't sustain this. I need it." But having to pay for therapy was making me more stressed in the process because I just couldn't afford the therapy. But Edward Sim, um, he showed me a kindness that I've kind of been, you know, but I haven't seen in a long time, especially at that time. Like, he contacted my wife, um, and just said, "Listen, I wanna help him. Um, I'll do it for free." And he's been, he's been looking after me ever since. And, you know, like...

    5. SB

      For free?

    6. DF

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      Wow.

    8. DF

      I mean, I've, you know, I've, I've keep offering to pay now when I'm in a slightly better place, and, but he refuses, you know. He, um, but you know, I think, you know, he's someone who I want in my life forever. And, you know, I want, I wanna be able to repay. I'll, I'll never be able to repay him for what he's

  17. 1:06:25 – 1:12:01

    Coping Mechanisms.

    1. DF

      done for me. But, like... Yeah. It, I mean, he introduced me to so many different things, like stuff that I, like I use this thing called Sonic Reset Therapy. I don't know if you know about it?

    2. SB

      No.

    3. DF

      It's this, like, noise that you listen to. I listen to it twice a day for 20 minutes, and it, it, it's definitely become something that calms me down and helps me sleep at night. Um, and then-

    4. SB

      What do you think it's doing? What is it doing for you? Just kind of...

    5. ... resetting your mind in a way, or?

    6. DF

      Yeah. I think that's, I mean, I think, I guess that's the intention behind it. As, as I listen to it, it tells me to think about negative experiences or think about positive experiences that, like, think about goals you want to achieve or think about things you want to, you know-

    7. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. DF

      ... get past and just let them come into your mind at the forefront. And yeah, it's really strange. Like, it just has a real calming effect.

    9. SB

      We'll try-

    10. DF

      When I-

    11. SB

      ... and get ahold of it and we'll try and include it in the description below.

    12. DF

      Yeah. Yeah.

    13. SB

      So ...

    14. DF

      They, it's, you know, like, it, i- i- it's been, it's been helping me, you know. Um, I'm sure it will help others. Um, but, you know, there's lots of different things. Like, one of the things that he suggested to me, which at the time when he suggested it, it was such a weird thing, is he, he recommended that I read the Alcoholics Anonymous book. Now, I say it's a strange thing for him to recommend for me, because I've never drank alcohol in my life. I've never done drugs other than what the doctor's prescribed for me for my Crohn's. So I've literally been teetotal forever. Do you know what I mean? So, like, I had just naively assumed that, you know, this is a book to help someone who is an alcoholic, right? That, yeah. I've, I've actually, I've got, I still carry my copy.

    15. SB

      That's yours.

    16. DF

      Yeah.

    17. SB

      This is my copy.

    18. DF

      Yeah.

    19. SB

      Um, and in, in researching your story, I, I realized the significance of this book, so I just bought a copy of it.

    20. DF

      Yeah. For people who have never read it, um, I recommend reading it. You don't have to be a d- a ... I'm a testament. You don't have to be an alcoholic to read it and gain something from it. Um, you know, essentially, it's broken up into 12 steps and each chapter, each step is a lot of people's, like, short stories of how they overcome different phases of addiction or trauma. Ultimately, it's trauma, but it's ... In the, in the Alcoholics Anonymous book obviously, it's specifically kind of aimed at, you know, addiction in that sense. And as you hear all the stories, it's very easy to replace the alcoholic side of it in this book and put your own trauma or grief that you're trying to deal with in that place. And it's like a blueprint. It's like literally s- people are telling you how they overcome a certain thing. And it might not work. Everything might not work for you as an individual. But I took so much from this. And, you know, it's, it can, it's kind of written maybe from, like, a spiritual perspective, you know. I'm not particularly religious, like, um, but ultimately, it's about trying to get you to believe in something greater than yourself to help you find your purpose. And for me, I've always known what that is. It's, it's been perfo- it's been doing magic, right? But I didn't know how to get back to that place without dealing with all these things I was dealing with, you know, like ... And I've kind of, you know, gone through the 12-step book, but I've kind of gone through my own 12-step kind of recovery. Like, going through the different emotional phases that I've been trying to overcome, you know. And some of those involve, like, you know, going back, looking at my past, you know. Looking at, you know, the situation with my dad, you know. Looking at my mum, you know. Like, 'cause I think if I'm honest, there was definitely, there's definitely been a lot of resentment towards my mum, um, over the years. Um, because when my dad went away, like, you know, I'm ... As my mum ... You know, my mum's now, you know, living a different life without him. You know, naturally, she's gonna get to a stage where she wants a new boyfriend, a new, a new partner. She wants a life of her own, right? But there's quite a few of those men that came into her life that were horrible to me. You know, f- a big part of that was because I was a mixed race kid and we lived in a, you know, quite a racist area. So, you know, a lot of the men, you know, didn't want me. They wanted my mum 'cause my mum was lovely.

  18. 1:12:01 – 1:18:21

    My Mum’s Toxic Relationships and My Resentment Towards Her.

    1. DF

      But-

    2. SB

      How did you know they didn't want you?

    3. DF

      'Cause they would tell me.

    4. SB

      They would tell you?

    5. DF

      Yeah. It was like, yeah, they'd just tell me or they'd, or, and they'd, they'd do things that showed me that they didn't want me. Like, I, I, I pretty much moved in with my grandparents when I was 15. Like, because the, the men in my mum's life just ... I wanted my mum to be happy. But that came at the sacrifice of my own happiness. It mean, it meant that she'd be happy 'cause she'd get the love maybe that she felt she needed. But I felt like I lost my mum in the process. So there's been resentment. It, it's not been like surf- on the surface resentment. Like, you know, I still see my mum at Christmases and stuff like that. But we never really had that, the bond that I felt we should've had. Um, but kind of one of the things I got from, from the book is I've had conversations with my mum, but I've never, that I've been too scared to have.And I've actually got to understand her better. And this is, this is the wrong word, but because ultimately, she doesn't need forgiveness, 'cause knowing her story, she hasn't done things wrong in-

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. DF

      You know, she hasn't purposely done things wrong for me to go, "Oh, I forgive you."

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. DF

      Right? But there was... Knowing what she'd been through. Like, it's, it's in these conversations that I've learned about some of the physical abuse that my dad would do, and that also the other partners of hers would give her. And I think she'd been trapped in a cycle of nece- you know, not necessarily kind of picking the wrong partners, and just kind of trying to do the same thing over and over again-

    10. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. DF

      ... expecting different results, you know, which, uh, you know, you can't blame someone for, like...

    12. SB

      I mean, I've come to learn from doing this podcast and speaking to a lot of psychologists that specialize on love, that we often seek out the form of love that we grew up on, and sometimes that's an abusive form of love. So many psychologists that I've spoken to have alluded to this, but few have said this quite directly, that if you were, at a very young age, had an, a sort of a toxic, um, attachment with a, maybe a figure in your life, th- there's a chance that you'll then grow up and seek out toxic attachments, um, in the cycle that you've described. We, we tend to think that, well, you know... We tend to think that if we've been in a toxic situation when we were younger, for example, that we'll then seek out really, really healthy situations because we know what bad looks like. But in fact, I've been told that it's often the opposite, that we go back to the cycle of love that we were familiar with.

    13. DF

      Yeah.

    14. SB

      Familiarity, it seems to me, the key word.

    15. DF

      Yeah, yeah. People find safety in familiarity.

    16. SB

      Yeah.

    17. DF

      Even if that familiarity isn't actually safe.

    18. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. DF

      But I, yeah, I, I can feel that.

    20. SB

      This book, this very small book. There's something about this, these ideas that seem to reach people when they're in their toughest moments. "Step number one, we admitted we were powerless, that our lives had become unmanageable. Step two, c- we came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." Have you had to admit you were powerless? And have you started to believe in a power greater than yourself?

    21. DF

      Oh, definitely. Um, I mean, I've felt powerless for years. Like, I know that I'm not in control. Like, my illness has debilitated me for so long, but just when... It always seemed to kind of pop up, you know, when, when I'm kind of flying high, when I feel, like, untouchable. Then suddenly, I get a little reminder that, you know, I'm fallible, I've got weaknesses, you know, and can't get above my station, so to speak. But, but yeah, I think... I think that I've always looked for the magic in the wrong place. And what I mean by that is that I've always looked for the magic in me to help me out of whatever situation I was in. And what this book opened up my mind to the idea of is the magic in other people.

    22. SB

      As you know, because I've been sent thousands of messages, these conversation cards sell out exceptionally quick. So here's the deal I'm gonna make with you. If you join the waiting list, which is in the description below, you will get sent access to buy these conversation cards one hour before anybody else. They're in limited supply, so if you really do want to get your hands on them, please do add your name to the waiting list in the description below. And you can find that waiting list at theconversationcards.com, but I'll also include it in the description below, wherever you're listening to this episode. As you know, Whoop are a sponsor of this podcast, which came about from me being the biggest fan of their product. It's been an absolute game changer for my sleep, for my recovery, and for my overall well-being. Whoop is a wearable device, this thing on my wrist right here, if you're watching me, that not only tracks your health 24/7, but also guides you to improve it. It's probably the perfect gift for the person who has everything or is impossible to buy for, which is what my friends say to me. Because it's the kind of gift that keeps on giving, offering real-time benefits for their health and their wellness forever. So if you're on the hunt for the perfect present for a loved one or a team member, or even for you, this festive season, I would highly, highly recommend checking out Whoop. And they've very kindly offered our community here on The Diary of a CEO a special discount just for you. But keep this to yourself. If you head over to join.whoop.com/ceo, you can get that discount. Let me know who you get one for and how they get on. You have a TV

  19. 1:18:21 – 1:27:40

    Your New TV Show and Returning to Magic.

    1. SB

      show coming out tonight, which is really your grand return to the public stage, and that TV show is called Dynamo Is Dead, and it's appearing on Sky tonight, which is very, very exciting. And I guess this links to what you just said about finding the magic in others, right?

    2. DF

      Yeah. Yeah.

    3. SB

      Why are you doing this? What is it?

    4. DF

      I just need to get magic back in my life because that's the thing that I live for. And over the last few years, when I've been working on myself, seeing a different type of magic, seeing the magic in other people is what's given me that spark back. And...... the magic I've been seeing, it's not Dynamo magic. You know, it's something different. It's something that I'm feeling, and I'm finally feeling it again. In fact, I feel like I'm feeling it for the first time. Like, Edward Sim, my therapist, he is a very successful therapist. He doesn't need to offer me therapy for free. But he wanted to share some of his magic, and that started to rewire my mind to realize, "Whoa," like there's some amazing people out there who can, you know, who... They can change lives. They're changing mine. You know, when I saw you three years ago, and we shared a candid conversation, you know, about some of the things I was feeling at the time, you first off, listened to me. And there was no cameras around. It wasn't like this, you know? It was just, you were, you were present in the room with me, and then not only did you listen but you, you kind of helped in a small way. And that was magic. You know? I don't know if anybody knows who's watching this, but you are part of my new show. Don't know if you've told anybody yet. Um, so you can also see you on the show tonight, um, in a different way where maybe they're used to seeing you.

    5. SB

      (laughs) Yeah, definitely.

    6. DF

      Um, but, like, your story, you know, like... I think one of the things I realized for a lot of people from places like where I'm from, speaking to a therapist seems like the last thing you would feel comfortable doing. You know, I'm from a council estate. We're working class. We're like, you know... Y- you're told if you got a problem, just suck it up, you know. Be a man. You can't talk about your problems, you know. Like, you just got to get on with it, you know. What's that, uh, expression? That keep calm and carry on. You know, that's... It was like... It's kind of, like, instilled in us. I wanted to show people from where I'm from that it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to be broken. It's okay to not know the answers, and I'm not too proud to go out there and search for the answers for people, you know. Like, and I've gone around the world using the, you know, the platform that I have. You know, I- I've... Obviously, as Dynamo, um, the name opens doors, so... But opening doors just for myself is pointless, 'cause it's only feeding my own ego. I realized that if I could use that platform to speak to individuals candidly about dealing with any type of trauma, dealing with not feeling good enough, dealing with all the things that I felt that made me not want to be alive anymore, then maybe that can save someone else's life. And I know it's a grand- grandiose mission statement. I don't take it lightly. I don't... You know, I... Like, I can... I'm barely saving my own life at the minute to, you know... So, I don't want to, like, throw it so loosely but, you know, but, like, I can save someone else's life. But-

    7. SB

      Yeah, but that's exactly what it does. That is exactly what it does. And there are lives that you never really get to see, but just even in sharing how you felt and how you've risen from that, this is exactly what Simon Gunning told me. It does save people's lives. And in this new chapter of your life, following this show tonight called Dynamo Is Dead on Sky, you're gonna continue to do that. And if there was ever a time... And I think this is why when you, when you came up to me at that event many a year ago and started telling me a little bit about your story, I think I probably said it to you then, but I'm not sure. Um, if there's ever a time when people need that, when they need a little bit of joy, and they need a little bit of escapism, and they need a little bit of wonder, and they need their imagination to be stretched into what is real and what is possible and what is impossible, it is now. And you know that. You know that's what people need now, and that means we need you now.

    8. DF

      I had the idea, obviously, to make this show when we first started speaking. But when my nan died, I, I realized then that the Dynamo as we know it needed to die with her, and that the only way to fully have closure on that part of my life was if I actually bury myself alive. And tonight, after the show plays out live on Sky, I'm gonna be doing that.

    9. SB

      You're gonna bury yourself alive?

    10. DF

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SB

      In order to kill off the Dynamo identity?

    12. DF

      Yeah. Um, yeah. I- I mean, I haven't, I haven't put myself in that hole yet.

    13. SB

      Right.

    14. DF

      So...You know ... What will happen after that point is hard to really kind of summarize because there's only been a few times in my life where I've done, like, crazy, like, you know, endurance feats like this. And something in you changes when you do them. You know? It's a incredibly scary thought. But since I've thought about it, you know, since the 7th of May, 2021, I thought it's the only way to move forward with my life. And, yeah, tonight after the show finishes, you'll be able to see it live. But it's not, for me, it's, it's not like a stunt. It's not un- ... It's not about escaping. It's a cleansing for me. And ... I feel like it will be one of the most incredible but scary things I've ever done. But the thing I've learned over the last few years is that I've got to stop being scared and just start living my life.

    15. SB

      I'm, I'm both terrified and excited in equal measure to watch the show tonight. I had no idea you were burying yourself alive, so that's terrifying. But I understand your rationale, um, and I'm very excited to see what happens. Stephen, I would like to see some magic, if possible. Is there some magic you can show me right now?

    16. DF

      Yeah. Do you wanna get some of your friends in as well?

    17. SB

      My team?

    18. DF

      Yeah.

    19. SB

      My team are upstairs. Um, Jack, could you bring the team downstairs? What

  20. 1:27:40 – 1:38:10

    Magic Tricks.

    1. SB

      do you guys do here at DOAC?

    2. NA

      I am a video editor with Ann.

    3. DF

      Nice.

    4. NA

      I'm head of trailers for the podcast.

    5. DF

      We have some good trailers as well. (laughs)

    6. NA

      (laughs)

    7. SB

      Thank you. Thank you.

    8. NA

      Yeah, yeah. Uh, I'm head of the bookings.

    9. DF

      Do you wanna mix 'em?

    10. NA

      You go for it. Go on, Ann. You go, you go.

    11. DF

      You want as well. So m- we'll split 'em. You can both mix 'em.

    12. NA

      All right.

    13. DF

      Yeah, yeah.

    14. NA

      Is this the best shuffling you've ever seen?

    15. DF

      I mean, it's, it's, it's not bad.

    16. NA

      (laughs)

    17. DF

      It's not the worst.

    18. NA

      Usually it's when you throw them all- Normal cards. ... on the table and you just do all that. Standard edition. Yeah.

    19. DF

      And we'll mix these over as well. Mix these in. So, so I'll, I'll mix these all together, yeah?

    20. NA

      Yeah. Yeah.

    21. DF

      Tell you what, let's just have everybody pick one. We'll just, we'll just try this. So take one out, Stephen.

    22. SB

      Uh, there we go.

    23. DF

      Come on then. There we go.

    24. NA

      Thank you.

    25. DF

      Don't let me see. I'll, I'll look down so I can't see 'em. Just remember them and maybe show them to the camera so that the people at home can remember them too.

    26. SB

      Should have given us a camera.

    27. DF

      Yeah. Cool, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look up now.

    28. NA

      Yeah.

    29. DF

      Yeah? I'll take this one first. That's one, two, three, four. I'll give them a, uh, give them a shuffle. I'll do one of those for you, yeah?

    30. SB

      Okay.

Episode duration: 1:38:10

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