The Diary of a CEOHow I Built 5 Multi-Million Dollar Companies: Marcia Kilgore | E99
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,004 words- 0:00 – 2:00
Intro
- SBSteven Bartlett
Quick one. The Diary of a CEO Live, my live show, my live reincarnation of this podcast is coming on tour, and it's coming to a city near you. There's a link in the description below. Put your email address in, and I will email you when tickets go on sale. Can't wait to see ya.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
(instrumental music) You know, when you have that kind of experience early, you grow up very fast. And you know what's important, and you prioritize, so. Another deep question.
- SBSteven Bartlett
All of these are deep questions.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. Okay, so-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you feel like a bit of a fraud?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
No?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I totally thought I knew what I was doing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
People don't do that. They don't just, like, change-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Well, you do when you're 20, right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
They don't.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
People came back. Madonna and Uma Thurman and Oprah. (instrumental music)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Marcia Kilgoor. I can't actually believe what you're about to hear. I can't actually believe that one human being could have achieved that many successful business exits back-to-back. She's built companies like Soap & Glory, like Bliss Beauty Pie, which she's building at the moment, and these companies have sold for tens and hundreds of millions. They've made hundreds of millions in annual revenue. And the remarkable thing is, she's not just done it once. She's not just done it twice. Not three times, not four times. She's done it five times. And I sat here with her, trying to figure out why her. What was it about Marcia that made her achieve such tremendous things in her life? And I think we finally got there. I think we finally found the answer. And is it something that you can replicate? A lot of it is, and I think that's what makes this podcast today so interesting. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (instrumental music) There is so much that makes you unique. So much. And sometimes I think, and I think I'm guilty of this to some degree too, we don't always
- 2:00 – 9:38
Your early years
- SBSteven Bartlett
see ourselves as being unique, because we're inside of our minds, and we're, you know, we're behaving in the way that feels natural to us. But when I look at your s- your story, and the decisions you've made since you were very, very young, it's so clear to me that there's something so different about, many things that are so different about you, and I wanna kinda get to the root of that. What is the foundation of that difference? What was it, what was the cauldron, the experience that created the person you went on to become for the following, you know...
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Wow. That's starting-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... couple decades.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... with a very, very deep question, isn't it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
It is, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. I mean, I think that, um, I grew up in a, a very small town, um, and a, and a small city, and Canada at that time was, you know, relatively simple. And I always had a hunger to learn more and read more and find out more, and kind of knew that I didn't really fit in in a small city. Um, so very early on, I kind of started to think, "Well, what can I do, and how can I get out of here?" But I didn't have much guidance. So my father died early, and my mum was not necessarily someone who would help me, you know, look at universities, for instance, or say, "Hey, you should real- Your grades are really great. Why don't you study and do this or that?" 'Cause she had never done it herself. So she, um, no one really in my family guided me, and at that point, there weren't really university counselors or anyone doing that job in, in high schools, at least in, in Canada. So I think for me, uh, I realized quite early, probably when I was a teenager, that I just needed more stimulation, and I needed more than what was there just to, you know, feel fulfilled and, and keep my curiosity going. Those teenage years, you have a lot of experiences, and apparently what happens during your teenage years, because your brain is forming in a very different way and it's starting to sort of solidify, right? Um, those kinds of experience really stick with you through your whole life. And I remember having several part-time jobs when I was a teenager, um, all, you know, simultaneously while going to high school, and never really finding a job where I thought that the person in charge of the business was doing it well. So (laughs) I worked at a gym, for instance, and I always thought, "Oh, they could do it so much better if they were just doing this, that, and the other thing." I taught aerobics classes, and I thought aerobics was so boring the way it was done and tried to do it, you know, in a very different way so it was more fun for the people who came. And just always trying to improve the experience, because I was in quite a mediocre setting. Lovely setting, but you know, very average. Very, uh, you know, middle Canada. Um, and so that was probably a bit of the, a bit of the stimulation.
- SBSteven Bartlett
On that point though, that, that sort of philosophy or even the thought that you could make something better, I, that's, that's a point of difference that a lotta people don't have. Where did, where did that come from in you so early that if something isn't good enough, that you had the power within yourself to do something about it? 'Cause I think most people will go through life just accepting things as they are.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
That would be just terribly depressing, wouldn't it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I guess if you can connect the dots and see your way to something that might be more elevating for your mind and then for others and make something a little bit more fun, um, you can go deep into the childhood stuff, right? Uh, and, and just think about... I mean, there were situations in my childhood, and it happens to a lot of people, so I'm by, you know, by no means unique in this respect, but where, for instance, and this will probably be more girls than boys, but at some point in every girl's existence in school, you become the unpopular one. How you feel maybe so much of an outsider when suddenly you're out and how painful that can be. I think probably in my experience when I was suddenly not cool anymore, (laughs) probably was really painful for me 'cause I also feel things quite acutely. So trying also to think, well, if other people feel left out, how can you make them feel like they're more a part of something? And so most of the businesses that I create are, are very democratic. Um, Bliss even, which was my spa that I created in, in New York. I mean, we had everybody coming in from, like, Madonna and Uma Thurman and Oprah, right? But then the tr-... 12-year-old kids who had chronic acne and, you know, their moms would bring them in to have facials. We treated everybody exactly the same way.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Um, I think one of my favorite memories from that was when I was actually giving a facial to one of these 12-year-old kids, that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... her mom had brought her from Boston and Uma Thurman was in the locker room at the same time and helped her open her locker.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So she comes into my treatment room and goes, " (gasps) Uma Thurman just helped me unlock my locker."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And it was so cute because, you know, everybody was the same and that makes me feel great. I think probably some of that experience as a child, not feeling equal-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... being left out maybe a little bit. We, we ... After my father passed away, we were not necessarily poor, or, you know, but not-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... c- certainly not comfortable in any way, shape, or form. Um, at one point, we moved back to a small town and we kind of lived on the wrong side of the tracks. If there was a wrong side of the tracks, we lived on the wrong side of the tracks in this very small town where my mother's family is, was from. So, you kind of felt like you weren't quite as good as everyone else, but that wasn't fair.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And so, very likely, the idea of this democratization of the good stuff-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... is (laughs) , probably comes from that. But I'm sure you could grab any therapist, anywhere, and they would give you a different version of it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yes, um, yeah. The passing of your father seems to be quite a poignant point. You, you seem to refer to it as, like, before and after, how life was somewhat different. And, um, after y- your father passed away, um, the requirement for you to develop, like, a real sense of independence seems to have sort of really come through. I think you ... I read it that you got ... You had three part-time jobs at one point?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, yeah. Well, I had to ... I mean, my mother was a secretary.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So she didn't have a, you know, huge income. I ... At the time, I was probably 11, right, so I didn't ask her, "Hey, do we have any money (laughs) in the bank."
- 9:38 – 20:07
The gym & moving to New York
- MKMarcia Kilgore
uh, my 12th grade, and I got accepted to Columbia University, and I was supposed to go but I didn't have any money, and my sister who lived in New York said, "I'll help you out with your tuition," but then she had a little SNAFU with her income that year. It was, like, a tax thing or whatever. You know, again, no big deal. And so I was in New York and I had no, no money to go to university and it was too late because I was Canadian to get a foreign student loan. So I decided to use the only skill that I had. When I was ... And I n- I know you can tell this about me, but I was a bodybuilder. (laughs) I know it's kind of hard to see now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I know the original, yeah. Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
But I was, I was, like, a middleweight bodybuilding champion when I was a teenager. I, uh ... You know, between the three part-time jobs, I would then go to the gym at night and, you know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Where did that come from? 'Cause that's, that is a, that takes a degree of, dare I say it, dedication, to say the least.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, it was, it was random. I think it was, again, my sister started dating this guy whose brother owned a bodybuilding gym and he said to me, "Hey, you should come down to the gym," 'cause I was a long-distance runner-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... and, you know, uh, just to kind of let off steam, I think. I just loved to always go running. And so he said, "Oh, you should come down." Miss Canada at the time, like, Miss Canada lightweight or featherweight or whatever (laughs) , she w- she worked out there, and so she put me through the paces and gave me a routine and all this kind of stuff, and I just went because-
- SBSteven Bartlett
But-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... it was something to do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... even then though, a lot of people m- go to the gym. They train, whatever, two days, three days a week. For you to have gone from just walking in the door to becoming a, like, a junior bodybuilding champion or something ...
- MKMarcia Kilgore
You know, I suppose, again, if you, like, had a therapist come in and say, "Oh, why would you do that?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
It's probably to give some kind of semblance, control, and the ability to achieve something, uh, you know, to my life, which, at the time, I'm a teenager in a high school in the middle of Saskatchewan.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
School was not so hard for me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So what else am I gonna do?
- SBSteven Bartlett
A sense of, like, purpose, I guess, and-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, and, and to have that discipline, you also have control, right? So if you can control your body, then you could probably control other things, and if you can achieve things with seeing how far you can take it, then, you know, it just adds to the, I guess, the, the challenge.
- SBSteven Bartlett
This is really interest-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
You, you like a bit of a challenge.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I do. I love challenge.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
I also really love working out and I'm, I'm, uh, well, going to the gym every single day and I, I, I ... You know what it was? It was, I had, um ... I, I sat here with a entrepreneur and she, um, is very well-known. She's got millions of followers online for be- for basically being a bodybuilder.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Okay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
She describes herself as a bodybuilder but she doesn't ... You know, she's, um, a very lean bodybuilder, let's say, but, um-And she told me that when she was in school, she was outcasted a little bit, and she would eat her, like, lunch in the, the toilets. Her name's Chrissy Chella. Um, and her go- her going to the gym was, in some respects, an escape from all of that.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It was like, her way of, yeah, I think it gave her-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Building herself back up.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... a sense of control. Building herself back up.
- 20:07 – 38:00
The start of Bliss
- MKMarcia Kilgore
got quite bad. And it had never been great. You know, through my teenage years, everybody has a little bit of, you know, acne et cetera, et cetera, but mine, I'd never quite solved it. And I bought a lot of products to try and solve it, and I actually personally trained somebody who worked at one of the hot, you know, skincare brands at the time, and he gave me everything and nothing really worked. Um, and so I thought one summer ... In the summer, when you're a personal trainer in New York, all of your clients generally will go to the Hamptons. And so for me, that was like two months without income, right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
No one pays you when they're not working out.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So, I thought, "I can either go to the Hamptons and be captive in somebody's house," because you then become kind of like, people would drag you to the beach and say, "Oh, here's my personal trainer," and you just, it was not a good dynamic for somebody like me who does not, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Want freedom and-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I want freedom. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So, I decided, I found this skincare, uh, it was, it was like a school, and I decided to take this crash course in how to f- you know, fix your own skin. And it was actually how to do facials, but I was taking it for myself, and then I realized I really loved it. And then I convinced my very trusting, and I am so grateful to them, but personal training clients. These were, you know, some A names (laughs) and they let me-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Keep- name drop.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
They, they let me practice on them.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Name drop.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Like, at the time-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oprah?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Oh, yeah, I've had O- yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Of course.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Oprah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Very, very early on, it was more like Paul Simon and Carrie Fisher. So, I mean, everybody. Everybody who was anybody kind of came in and, and let me do their face. And it was a real, it was like a real gift to be trusted with people who relied on their faces for their work.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
A- and so this is-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
At that early stage.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... your own location in Manhattan?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Well, it started with people coming to my, (laughs) to my apartment.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, okay.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. So, I would personally train people by running all over Manhattan during the day. And then at night, I, because my sister had some connections with the modeling age- uh, m- modeling industry, let's just say, she had some, um, bookers who had some other models who had terrible skin.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right.
- 38:00 – 43:09
Attention to detail and maintaining a high standard
- SBSteven Bartlett
How extreme were you?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So extreme. Extreme, extreme, extreme. I mean, everything from how you laid on that table, to what the sheets smelled like, to how you bolstered their knees so that the backs of their heels, when they were lying for a facial for 60 minutes, the backs of their heels wouldn't ache because their knees were elevated the right way, to the wax that you put on their hands, to how much you massaged them, to the responses that you would give, and we trained everybody in terms of the customer says this, it's all about them, right? It's about making them feel good, not only, you know, their face, their body, whatever you're treating, but mentally, right? It's not about you. There are no complaints. You don't whine about anything. It's all about making them thrilled, feel great about themselves, look great. They should walk out of there feeling like (inhales) . We had literally, I think the testament to it when you think back is crazy loyalty. So people would come in for their facials, and say they came in on Tuesday night at 7:00. Evenings, of course, were always booked. We closed at 10:00, but so you only have like a 6:30 to 8:00 or 8:00 to 9:30, or, you know, you kind of back it out, usually an hour and a half for a facial. So really, there were only two evening slots unless you left work early, and then there were three evening slots. 10 rooms, that means you got 30 people in in the evening. Other people, they wanna come in, they gotta, like, make an excuse to their boss and come during the day-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... right? Or take a day off work to come for their facial (laughs) -
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... which people actually did, but people would book their spot every month for two years, right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So that they wouldn't miss it. And if they had to change, they would call and say, "Could you swap me with somebody else? Because I don't want to miss it." Or they would have a friend book a different slot, and then they would swap with their friend. And so we had a waiting list of people who just wanted to come in, and we were booked every day all day for, like, uh, probably a year in advance for those, those 10 treatment rooms. Um, but we would keep a waiting list, and if we didn't get people in, now, this is the day, no email, right? Okay. There was not email.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, there was no email.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I thought you got no emails one day. I was like, "Well, what did you do?"
- MKMarcia Kilgore
No, there were no email.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay, right. (laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. So you had the phone-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... and you had your computer booking system.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Sure.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
But you couldn't just mass email everybody. So we would literally keep a list of people who were waiting for appointments, and at the end of each day, if we didn't get them in on a cancellation, we'd call every single one and apologize. And then tell the... So at 7:00, somebody would start the sorry calls.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you still-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
We called them the sorry calls, and you would just call-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wh- Whose idea was that?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So my, my... You have clearly very, very high standards-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... uh, for, for detail.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How would you police that amongst people that might not have the same high standards?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Well, they're not my people.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So you fire them?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Well, they would probably be better elsewhere where their standards are more aligned-
- 43:09 – 46:30
What is it about you that made you successful
- SBSteven Bartlett
period of your life, in that, those early moments, and really throughout your career, what is it about you that made you successful? I mean, I've picked up on one, which is really high standards. The other one I've picked up on, uh, picked up on the minute you walked through the door, which is, you're just a very pleasant human being.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Thanks.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I'm like, all of these things, uh, if you, if they compound over, like, 30 years, you're gonna get to a really good place. But is there anything else within, you know, some people are visionaries-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... they are, you know, whatever. Is there anything else where you say, "Do you know what? That's probably a trait of m- me that made me successful."
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, I c- I connect the dots-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... in new ways.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So that, if that were to be kind of my thing-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... it's about, um, have you read the book, it's called Originals by Adam Grant?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yes, on there.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So someone gave it to me-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Nice.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... actually, the art teacher in my son's school gave it to me and said, "This sounds like you." And I read it, and I was like, "Oh." You know- (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... when you think you're special? (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- NANarrator
I mean, it's true.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And then you read a book, and you're like, "Nope, I'm not special."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Because everybody, he's, he's got it down, like, every chapter is like, "Oh yeah, this is me. Oh yes, this is me, this is me." And, um, he talks about, in the book, about how, uh, you become, uh, an expert in your area, right? So you, you are very deep in expertise in one particular area, but then you're very curious about all this other stuff, which is me. I scan everything, right? Whether or not I'm really interested in it, I got newsletters coming out of my eyeballs, and I just kind of scan. I'll click on things, and sometimes I'll just force myself to read something that I have no interest in at all just because there might be something in there.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Um, and, and I think from doing that, I find new ideas.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's what creativity is, isn't it?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Right? Just, there's so much science about gratitude and how just starting your day with thinking, "Wow, I'm so lucky," right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- 46:30 – 49:55
Can you teach people to have good ideas
- MKMarcia Kilgore
the, uh, environment.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Right? But not everyone's going to be able to do that. So there is gonna be a cohort of people who just don't think of new ideas. And they're probably really good at other things, and that's okay 'cause the world needs all of them, right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Um, it's like Switzerland, like, they, you know, some people are plumbers, but they still make 100 grand a year and everybody's happy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So if we put people in the right seats on the bus, there is such a position, and that, of course, is management, isn't it? It's trying to find when someone has talent, but not in a particular area, you make sure they're doing the right thing. Um, but I think you can, h- you see this a lot in business school, not that I've been there, but I've sat on a lot of panels with people who are-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... who are entrepreneurs, right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And they're entrepreneurs because they have done a business plan, or they've done a business model, they've modeled out what, what, you know, we can do this isn't... They haven't come up with, "Oh wait," just like you said-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
"... if I connect this and this and do it this way, or," right? "Then I can make this happen." They've, they've said, "Well, I've gone to Harvard and now I'm gonna model out this business plan, and I think if we do this, that, and that, we can make, oh look, it's a profit."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And, and so-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... there's two ways to come by it, and I guess both are valid. And especially these days, um, the, there's so much money in the universe that people will invest in so many things that you could actually get to a, a good result by just putting-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Having tons of money.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... a business plan down, yeah, having tons of money, and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
And having gone to Harvard, which is much easier to get money.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yes, and s- and that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Being in Silicon Valley and being a white male.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
All that kind of stuff.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. Um, so it works.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
W- is it full of passion?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I don't know. Maybe if you're passionate about making money, that's a passion. It's not my way-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- 49:55 – 53:10
Selling Bliss
- SBSteven Bartlett
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's quick.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
We were great. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
You could tell. Three, selling the company three years later, uh, you know.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, at my, at the age I was-
- SBSteven Bartlett
How old were you?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... was quite hilarious.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Would've been, I would've been 30.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You were super young.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, 30 when we sold it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Uh, so I sold 70% to LVMH.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's nuts.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
It was nuts. You know, we had a few different large cosmetic conglomerates kind of circling around.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Um, one came in and gave me a big presentation and they had champagne ready and were talking about how they'd put me in a studio by myself and I could just be creative. You know, at this, you're talking to a girl who does facials and waxes people's legs. Do I wanna go to a studio by myself? I mean, my favorite thing was knowing I'd look at my list of who was coming in that day and it was like, "Oh, I get to see this person, this person," th- the, that, the joy was the, all the people, right? So they, "Oh, we're gonna give you a loft." And I went, right? And then we had another one who came in and said, "We wanna turn your spa into a spa under this brand name," which I thought, "Why, why would you buy it if you-"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Change the name.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. Um, and then there was LVMH who flew me to Paris on the Concorde. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, they didn't.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yes, they did.
- SBSteven Bartlett
No.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And took me out for lunch and then, you know-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Textbook LVMH.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
It was, it was quite fabulous though, I have to admit. It was like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. It sounds it, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... wow. And it w- it was hilarious when I got back to Brooklyn, when I flew back from Paris on the Concorde and it was the middle of the West Indian Day Parade in Brooklyn. So I'm in a taxi from the airport going back to the spa, although it was a holiday day, and I was going, we had redone the floors and I was going just to make sure that, uh, everything was dry and move the furniture back into place. So I'm (laughs) I'm on the subway 'cause I couldn't get a taxi to take me all the way in 'cause the West Indian Day Parade was blocking Flatbush Avenue. And I was on the subway going towards my Prince Street stop and there was Coke spilled all over it, not Coke, but you know like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Coca-Cola.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, Coca-Cola spilled all over the seats and drunk people everywhere and I'm standing there going, "I wonder if I'm the only person on this subway who was on the Concorde-" (laughs)
- 53:10 – 55:57
Starting Soap and Glory
- MKMarcia Kilgore
time, you know, it was, um, if I was, I was reading a lot of newspapers and there was a lot of collaborating going on between kind of designer brands and s- you know, the high street. And I thought, "Wouldn't it be fun just to kind of make a, a really great brand, um, that has..." We couldn't do, at drugstore prices you can't really do high quality, like super high quality product and sell it at a drug- at a drugstore price when you're going through the retail food chain because there's all the markups, right? So you-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Markets, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... you had to try and make really, like, I'd say qu- I wouldn't say high quality, but good quality products for a price point and make them really fun. And I just thought, "You know what? Let me try doing something that's using all the puns." I'm a bit of a writer, so I love to write copy. And so it was all about making the products kind of fun and, you know, good quality for just the right price to kind of, you know, be mass. And I launched in Harvey Nichols and it was actually quite a good success, but Harvey Nichols only has Knightsbridge and then a few other stores around the country. And I knew I wasn't gonna be able to make much of a splash just being in Harvey Nichols on a few shelves. Um, so Boots came to us and said, you know, "Would you like to roll out into different Boots stores?" That was really interesting 'cause I thought, "This is gonna be amazing. Oh my god, we're gonna go into Boots. We're gonna make like millions." (laughs) And I remember, I think we were in-... 300 boots stores and you just, for some reason, you just think, "Okay, if it's in Boots..." Right? Every brand you see in Boots you think, "Oh, they're making a fortune."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Um, and I remember we launched and I think that the first week, I think we did $300.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oof.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. And then I couldn't figure out why, so I go into my local Boots and it's on the bottom shelf.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And so that was, they don't reset the shelves for 10 months. Okay, so you start just thinking, "Oh my God, I'm gonna be making $300 a week for 10 months until they reset the shelves and I fight my way to the top."
- SBSteven Bartlett
I need to get back into just the- the gap there. In that period though, when you've- you've left Bliss and you're- you're not doing anything now, you have a lot of money so you don't really need to-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... worry about the bills or the rent anymore-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... or anything like that. I- I just, I'm just intrigued because I've recently-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I took a month off.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay. One month?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. It wasn't enough.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's not a long time. That's not a long time to say.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
It wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. I took six months between my last sale and figuring out what to do next. Six months was better. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
One month. One month. So wh- in that one month what are you doing? You're doing-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I went on holiday to the south of France.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay, so you go on holiday to France, then you come back and- and you're just str- straight into it?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, yeah. Just, you know, ideas. I mean, I ha- always have ideas so I'll be walking down the street and I'll get an idea, so you kind of jot them down, and then the ones that keep bubbling up to the surface, those are the good ones.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I love- I love this.
- 55:57 – 59:11
Coming up with new ideas
- SBSteven Bartlett
I read about- I read- I read about you talking about this because I- it rang so true to me because we all g- people like you and, um, creative people generally will get into-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, I don't wanna-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... put myself into it. I'm trying to be humble here. Um, p- we'll get lots of ideas lots of the time-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and the process in which you decide which ones are goers and- and which ones should just be disregarded, um, I find fascinating. And I've only been able to understand it, um, in hindsight, why I pick certain ideas and why I just let other ones go. But how do you filter out the ones that are worth pursuing and the ones that aren't?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Okay, so there's something I call the so what test.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So you ask yourself, "So what?" (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Tell yourself your idea.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And then ask, "Well, so what?" And if you cannot explain why you would wanna do that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... or why anybody should care in one sentence-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... it's not a good enough idea.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Nice.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you also let them sit for a while, right?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah, because there's so many. You have to. The ones that are just sorta average, they just, they go away, right? And the good ones kind of stay at the top and you think-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Persist.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... "Oh, I've gotta do that. I've gotta do that. That's really good. I would buy that." Of course, here's the other cheat, right? I only sell stuff that I would buy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
So I can't, uh, you know, it would be difficult for me if I'm trying to create a business centered around something that I don't want or have a need for, I don't know if I would be as good at it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Uh, super easy to do Beauty Pie because I love beauty products, I love candles, I love supplements. I know all the good labs. I've worked with them for 30 years.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I know where to get the good stuff. I'm gonna buy it anyway. I would like to buy the high quality stuff. I don't wanna have to pay retail. Okay.
- 59:11 – 1:02:17
Why was Soap and Glory so successful and selling it
- SBSteven Bartlett
of your life?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Um, gosh, that's a- another deep question.
- SBSteven Bartlett
All of these are deep questions.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. Okay, so well, emotional recollection, I mean, it was great to be able to build something new.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
It was great to be able to build something that was popular in a different country.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Right? So you didn't just do it in America, you also could do it in the UK.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh God, you're like Ronaldo.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Maybe I'm not so good with a ball but-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... um, it was exciting to do something mass-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... like at mass price points-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... because you could reach more people, so more people could afford the- the joy that you were trying to bring through that product. Uh, so that's always really nice because having something that's only affordable, while I love high quality things, the exclusion, uh, of people that comes along with a luxury price point I don't like so much, right? So the idea of luxury for affordable, of course, is- is the- also the holy grail. Um, so building... It was, you know, building Soap & Glory was also a real experience in terms of learning how to deal with, uh, a retailer who really-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... had a monopolistic grip on a country, right? 'Cause Boots was the power, you know, the all powerful.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Uh, so that was a real learning curve.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How big did Soap & Glory get?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I think we sold, we were selling probably 100 plus million dollars worth of stuff a year through Boots.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Fuck, that's a lot of money.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
It was not bad. It was, it was biggish.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Not bad. Oh, come on. (laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
It was biggish.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Biggish.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah. It was big. I mean, it could, could be, it could've been bigger.
- 1:02:17 – 1:06:26
Having an entrepreneurial partner
- MKMarcia Kilgore
ecotourism.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How, how is that? Working with, uh, not working with. How is it to, to have a, a partner that's also in the field of entrepreneurship? 'Cause you know what it is, I'm gonna ask you a question here 'cause I'm super curious and maybe you can help me. I've always wondered if, as an entrepreneur, it would make more sense to be with an entrepreneur or someone that just does nothing, sits at home just, you know-
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Nice and simple.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Be- being there. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Uh, well, it depends, I suppose, on your appetite for risk and if you have risk anymore. Right, so if you've already, um, managed to, um, you know, sell something and you have a little bit of money in the bank, then having two people going out there and risking it all-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... is okay-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... because you have something to fall back on. I think certainly having a partner who understands what you're going through day-to-day and will listen to you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
You know, we talked about being able to see someone.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Uh, it's so important to have someone who sees you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
And who can understand what it might be like for you on a day that's really hard and offer you that kind of support. Um, my husband is great with that. Like he, I couldn't ask for somebody who supports me more. And he does the stuff that I, you know, necessarily don't wanna do in terms of that family stuff, and we pick up the, the, uh, different, um, programs, I suppose, really beautifully together 'cause he'll take care of some stuff and I take care of other stuff and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
And when you come home, uh, are you good at sort of compartmentalizing the work stuff and then like switching off and being present with f- family?
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Maybe not always.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I appreciate the honesty.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm not gonna tell anybody. (laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
I don't know if you can be, right? Because sometimes work is really interesting also, right? So I've got two teenage boys, right? They sometimes come out of their rooms.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Sometimes not. And so sometimes I'll be on social media-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
... chatting with customers, right? Giving them advice, telling them what to use on their skin. It's actually, it's quite social as it is social media.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- MKMarcia Kilgore
Uh, I go home at night because I'm hoping they will come out of their rooms and I can spend time with them. But (laughs) we, we have dinner and then they usually go wanna, you know, play video games because all their friends are on video games. So if they do come out of their room, you know, at some point, I might be in the middle of something. Am I really good at just turning that off and saying, "I am here for you, young man."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
Episode duration: 1:22:17
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