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The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

How I Taught Millions Of Women The Most Important Skill: Girls Who Code Founder: Reshma Saujani

This episode is part of our USA series, over the coming weeks you will get to see some incredible conversations with guests the likes of which we’ve never seen before. Bringing more value, more incredible stories, and more world-beating expertise. Reshma is the founder of Girls Who Code, one of the most influential non-profits in the world which has introduced millions of women to coding and the tech industry. She is also the author of Pay Up, a book about how to get women further in the workplace. Topics 0:00 Intro 01:38 Growing up as an immigrant 13:10 University dept 18:23 Running for congress 27:54 Starting Girls Who Code 36:20 The difficult parts of building girls who code 41:38 What would you have done differently? 48:18 Fixing the system not the women 56:21 How is your mental health? 01:00:46 How do you decide what to say yes or no to? 01:03:30 Empowering women in a practical way 01:09:01 What does success look like in your future? 01:13:45 The last guests question Reshma: https://www.instagram.com/reshmasaujani/ https://twitter.com/reshmasaujani Reshma’s book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pay-Up-Future-Women-Different/dp/1982191570 Girls Who Code: https://girlswhocode.com/ Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast... Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT... FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveBartlettSC Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-ba... Sponsors: Huel - https://my.huel.com/Steven Myenergi - https://bit.ly/3oeWGnl Vodafone Business - https://bit.ly/3NIM35n https://bit.ly/3AuPKsA Location courtesy of The Nightfall Group: www.nightfallgroup.com

Reshma SaujaniguestSteven Bartletthost
Jun 6, 20221h 19mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. 0:00 – 19:40

    Immigrant Roots, Racism, and the Birth of a Fighter

    Reshma outlines her parents’ escape from Idi Amin’s Uganda and their struggle to rebuild in the U.S., changing their names and accepting daily microaggressions to survive. Growing up Brown in a white working‑class Midwestern town, she faced bullying, racist vandalism, and a brutal beating at 13 that flipped her from wanting to assimilate into embracing her identity and fighting injustice.

    • Parents fled Uganda in 1973, changed names to appear more employable, and focused entirely on their children’s upward mobility.
    • Family endured harassment: mother mocked for her sari, house vandalized with “Go back to your own country.”
    • Seeing her father quietly scrub racist graffiti convinced Reshma she would never be silent or passive.
    • A violent schoolyard attack at the end of eighth grade became a defining trauma; she still hasn’t fully processed it.
    • After that attack, she stopped trying to be ‘white,’ founded PRISM (a student anti‑prejudice group), and saw herself as a warrior.
  2. 19:40 – 34:00

    Chasing Credentials: Yale, Debt, and Losing Herself on Wall Street

    Reshma explains her obsession with elite credentials as an immigrant’s daughter and how repeated applications finally got her into Yale Law and Harvard—alongside crippling student debt. That debt pushed her into a high‑paying Wall Street law job, where she felt completely misaligned with her childhood vision of being a changemaker and sank into anxiety and despair.

    • Applied to Yale Law School three times, driven by belief that women of color need top credentials to be taken seriously.
    • Left school with roughly $300,000 in debt, which constrained her career choices and delayed public-interest work.
    • Took a lucrative hedge fund law job, helping her parents financially but feeling far from her dharma of social change.
    • Describes needing to hit ‘rock bottom’ emotionally before she can make major life changes.
    • A friend’s blunt advice to “just quit” and her father’s unexpected support exposed that fear—not parents—was the real barrier.
  3. 34:00 – 50:50

    Running for Congress: Naivety, Smears, and a Spectacular Loss

    Reshma recounts her first Congressional run as the first Indian American woman to seek such a seat, challenging a powerful incumbent. She describes naïvely believing merit and hustle would be enough, only to be met with character attacks, casual racism, and media trivialization before losing badly—an experience that nonetheless became her entrepreneurial boot camp.

    • Ran for Congress at 33 against a well‑entrenched, vindictive incumbent without an established political network.
    • Faced resistance even from feminist icons who didn’t want her challenging an ‘insider’ woman candidate.
    • Media reframed her as a Wall Street villain and the New York Times reduced her to a story about her shoes.
    • Learned hard lessons about narrative control, comment sections, and how newcomers of color are caricatured.
    • Lost by a wide margin after assuming she would win; forced to give a brave concession speech while internally devastated.
    • Used the campaign as training in fundraising, hiring, messaging, and public speaking—the same skills later used to build Girls Who Code.
  4. 50:50 – 1:03:20

    From Political Failure to Founding Girls Who Code

    After mourning her loss, Reshma channelled her frustration into understanding a problem she’d noticed on the campaign trail: the absence of girls and people of color in computer science classrooms. She researched the gender gap, wrote a business plan, ran another (unsuccessful) campaign, and simultaneously launched Girls Who Code, deciding that if she couldn’t legislate change, she’d build it directly.

    • Allowed herself about a month to grieve, ruminate, and analyze mistakes before deliberately moving on.
    • Noted homogenous, male‑dominated CS classes during her 2010 campaign and asked, “Where are the girls?”
    • Spent a year learning root causes of the gender gap in tech and drafting the Girls Who Code model.
    • Ran for New York Public Advocate under a platform of teaching every kid to code; lost again, but gained more skills and thicker skin.
    • Decided politics wasn’t a meritocracy and committed to teaching every girl to code without waiting for election wins.
  5. 1:03:20 – 1:15:50

    Building a Global Girls Who Code Movement

    Reshma outlines how Girls Who Code grew from a single program into 10,000 clubs worldwide and nearly half a million alumnae, focusing on aligning coding with girls’ desire to change the world. She explains the dual strategy of hands‑on programs embedded in tech companies and aggressive cultural change campaigns that made “girl coder” a mainstream, aspirational identity.

    • At launch, only 0.4% of girls expressed interest in coding; stereotypes portrayed coders as white male basement nerds.
    • Summer immersion programs were hosted inside tech companies; projects were tied to social impact issues girls cared about.
    • Graduates were asked to return home and start clubs, seeding exponential grassroots growth to 10,000 clubs in the U.S., UK, India, and beyond.
    • Classrooms were intentionally diverse—race, gender identity, and background—modeling empathy and sisterhood.
    • Cultural campaigns (books, media, a Doja Cat partnership coding her nails) drove 100,000 girls to sign up in a day and normalized cool girl coders on Netflix and TV.
    • Reshma emphasizes she saw herself less as building a nonprofit than building a movement.
  6. 1:15:50 – 1:26:40

    Leadership, Intensity, and the Hidden Cost of Being ‘All In’

    Reshma reflects on her leadership style at Girls Who Code—evangelical, intense, and mission‑obsessed—and admits she often undervalued praise, expected religion‑level commitment, and struggled when others treated it as just a job. She also describes stepping down as CEO, confronting how much validation had been tied to her title, and realizing how rarely founders are acknowledged once they leave.

    • Early board was built from family and friends who believed in and protected her while she figured things out.
    • Self‑describes as “intense,” with big vision and relentless pace; expects high passion from hires and uses a ‘passion filter.’
    • Recognizes that not everyone can or should treat their job as a calling; organizations need A, B, and some C players.
    • Admits she got the praise–criticism balance wrong, focusing on pushing rather than affirming staff.
    • Deliberately hired people smarter than herself and relied on trusted aides who could ‘speak Reshma.’
    • When she stepped down as CEO, she expected an outpouring of thanks and got almost none, revealing how praise is tied to positional power.
  7. 1:26:40 – 1:38:20

    Miscarriages, Motherhood, and Hitting Rock Bottom Again

    In one of the most vulnerable sections, Reshma reveals a seven‑year stretch of repeated miscarriages that coincided with the peak growth of Girls Who Code. She describes repeatedly going from doctors telling her there was no heartbeat directly to high‑stakes speeches and events, realizing later how deeply unhealthy and self‑erasing that pattern was.

    • While launching Girls Who Code and running campaigns, she experienced more miscarriages than she can count.
    • Multiple times, she heard “We don’t hear a heartbeat,” cried briefly, then went straight to events—introducing President Obama, speaking to 1,000 girls—without canceling.
    • She felt disturbed by her own ability to compartmentalize and perform while carrying profound grief and loss.
    • The pattern culminated during a trip to Utah when, after another bad call from her doctor, she still flew on and then emotionally collapsed.
    • She finally gathered her team, disclosed years of hidden miscarriages, and took time off, recognizing she’d modeled an unsustainable, martyr‑like standard.
    • She is explicit that she ‘got that really wrong’ and doesn’t want younger women to believe that is the price of leadership.
  8. 1:38:20 – 1:48:20

    Redefining Strength: Mental Health, Boundaries, and Wanting Less

    Pressed about how to avoid future rock bottoms, Reshma argues for a different model of strength: prioritizing wellness consistently, not just after breakdowns. She candidly rates her mental health at a six, describes new habits like sleep tracking and exercise, and explains how studying the Bhagavad Gita has helped her detach from external validation and focus on her dharma.

    • Critiques girlboss and CEO culture for glorifying exhaustion and sacrifice as badges of honor.
    • Encourages early recognition of stress signs and proactive rest—naps, breaks, time off—rather than waiting to crash.
    • During the pandemic, she allowed herself to cry in front of her team while laying people off, reframing tears as leadership, not weakness.
    • Uses a Whoop to guard eight hours of sleep, plays tennis, does date nights and girls’ trips, and significantly cut back on flights.
    • Actively practices “not wanting things,” noticing when she starts to chase awards or status and pulling back.
    • Receiving an unsolicited Yale commencement invitation symbolized a shift from chasing validation to having it arrive when she no longer needed it.
  9. 1:48:20 – 2:10:00

    From ‘Fix the Woman’ to Fix the System: Pay Up

    Reshma explains why she pivoted from teaching women bravery to demanding systemic change in her book *Pay Up*. Catalyzed by COVID’s disproportionate impact on working mothers, she argues that motherhood is treated as a personal choice, not a social infrastructure issue, and that true equality requires childcare, paid leave, flexible work, cultural rebranding of motherhood, and collective advocacy.

    • Pandemic forced her to juggle a newborn via surrogate, homeschooling a six‑year‑old, and saving Girls Who Code; 11 million U.S. women left the workforce.
    • Hybrid schooling was designed without consulting mothers, assuming they would absorb unpaid labor; this terrified her about how easily others could upend her life.
    • Her ‘Marshall Plan for Moms’ op‑ed drew backlash from both left (“what about dads?”) and right (“motherhood is a choice”), revealing how controversial motherhood is.
    • She now rejects corporate feminism that focuses on confidence, leaning in, and power poses without addressing structural injustice.
    • Proposes four levers: empower women with real boundaries; educate and pressure employers to subsidize childcare and mandate paternity leave; revise culture by parenting out loud and telling the truth about motherhood; and advocate for policy like paid leave and childcare funding.
    • Warns that girls’ futures can’t be changed unless women’s working conditions and caregiving burdens are transformed.
  10. 2:10:00

    Vision of Equality and Calling Out Imposter Propaganda

    In closing, Reshma articulates her long‑term vision: a world where girls and mothers can choose any path without structural penalties or internalized shame. She argues that imposter syndrome is often misdiagnosed—that many women and people of color are actually over‑qualified but made to feel like they snuck in—and calls for rejecting self‑help narratives that insist the problem is individual rather than systemic.

    • Wants little girls to be able to become presidents, founders, scientists or stay‑at‑home moms without regret or social penalty.
    • Hopes mothers don’t watch their biggest dreams “die on the vine” because of unpaid care burdens or rigid work norms.
    • Critiques the avalanche of books and programs telling women to fix their confidence or mindset instead of fixing environments.
    • Reframes imposter syndrome: if you’re in the room, you likely out‑earned it compared to many privileged incumbents.
    • Having met most “powerful” people, she believes many are less capable than the women and girls she works with.
    • Defines resistance as refusing to buy more self‑fixing courses and instead asserting, “I’m here, and I can lead too.”

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