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The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

How To Build A Following Of 10 Million: Mrwhosetheboss | E95

This weeks episode entitled ''How To Build A Following Of 10 Million Youtube Subscribers: Mrwhosetheboss" topics: 0:00 Intro 02:14 Your early years 12:02 Building confidence & practicing gratitude 22:38 Playing out your dream to the detriment of myself 31:18 Hard work 35:43 What made you go after your calling? 42:09 How do you maintain meaningful relationships? 59:43 Money 01:06:34 How do you enjoy aspects outside the excitement of YouTube? 01:11:27 Your growth on Youtube 01:18:52 The biggest misconceptions of you as a Youtuber 01:22:18 What are your motivations now? Arun: https://www.youtube.com/user/Mrwhosetheboss https://twitter.com/Mrwhosetheboss?s=20 https://www.instagram.com/mrwhosetheboss/?hl=en Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-by-steven-bartlett/id1291423644 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveBartlettSC Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-bartlett-56986834/ Sponsor - https://uk.huel.com/

Arun Maini (Mrwhosetheboss)guestSteven Bartletthost
Aug 30, 20211h 33mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:14

    Intro

    1. A(

      I was just this lanky, Asian nerd who played chess.

    2. SB

      Arun Maini, he's one of the UK's most successful ever YouTubers. (static)

    3. A(

      I was getting some sort of sick thrill out of seeing the numbers go up, so I made one video every single day for at least six months. It drove me to the point where I, one time, I just broke down crying on camera. Um, I never published that, but I have a, I have a photo which I sometimes look back on to remind of, like, wha- what it took. (static) (instrumental music plays) Th- th- there's, there's some things about you that you can't fix, and I think you just have to be very mechanical about them and be, like, "This is me. I have good things and I have bad things, but the bad things I can't change. I'm gonna lean on the things that are good about me, fix the things I can fix, and the rest is life." (static) Emotionally, physically, just exhaustion, I think, is how I would put it. Very, very tired. It was actually a bit of a pivot point in my career, because I sat down, like, "This isn't actually what I wanted." It, it was a realization that I've actually... You know, my channel's growing. All these metrics are looking up, but, but this isn't, you know? Uh, my brain. Uh, not many people know this actually, but... (instrumental music plays)

    4. SB

      Arun Maini, he's a creator and entrepreneur with over eight million subscribers. His story is unconventional. A young kid from the UK that was bullied in school and his path to escape that reality would turn out to become his dream, his purpose, his meaning. But as Arun will tell you, he made the critical mistake so many of us make when we're chasing our dreams. He became obsessive. He sacrificed too much, things that mattered more. And at some point, that would lead to him having a breakdown, and that breakdown was a moment of inflection. And he's figured out that all important balance of striving while knowing that you are already enough at the same time. And that, I guess, is the ultimate goal of all of our lives. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (instrumental music plays)

  2. 2:14 – 12:02

    Your early years

    1. SB

      Arun, tens of millions of followers and subscribers later, um, when I read through your story and your journey, I could see this real sort of fundamental, obsessive, um, ambitious guy under there. And it made me wonder as I was reading through about how obsessed you were with the growth and the, the scaling of your channel, it made me hypothesize that there must've been something happened in your early years that did that to you, that gave you that bug, that insatiable desire to be successful or, or something. Have you identified what that is?

    2. A(

      Yeah. Uh, so I probably... I should preface this by saying that I'm very aware I'm a very lucky person. Um, I actually just got off from my brother's wedding a couple of days ago, and I was just looking around at the, the family around me, the friends around me, thinking like, "Damn," like, you know, "This is it." Um, but there was one thing. So when I was growing up, I had a very supportive family, but I didn't have a great school life. You know, I was, I was just this lanky, Asian nerd who played chess. That was, that was me, basically.

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. A(

      Um, and I think there was some part of me that did seek approval. And, uh, I mean, all this really happened when my brother got me my first smartphone, and that just became my outlet. You know, on one hand, I had this school life that was very, very mediocre. But then I had this, this piece of technology in my hand that could do all these things, and I just became obsessed with it, like, this was my life. So-

    5. SB

      Your escape.

    6. A(

      Y- yeah, I guess. Um, and I just poured everything into it. I learned everything about this phone and how to do all these things on it. And I think it just got to the point where I was like, "Let's make a video."

    7. SB

      How old were you when you, uh, you were that... You described yourself as a lanky, Asian kid that got, got a smartphone for the first time. How old were you?

    8. A(

      14, probably, yeah.

    9. SB

      And, and the school you went to, what was the, what was the r- What was the... Typically, people get bullied, which is what you're alluding to, right? I've heard you talk about being bullied, I think, in some of the interviews you've done. Um, t- typically, people get bullied because the other kids think that there's something to bully them for.

    10. A(

      (smacks lips) Yeah, uh, th- there was plenty. Um, I was a nerd.

    11. SB

      Hmm.

    12. A(

      Uh, I wasn't very pretty, to be honest. Like, people would regularly just call me ugly. Um, I think there, there's some sort of also subliminal thing about being Asian not being, like, a cool thing. Um, it wasn't, like, a particularly Asian area, if that makes sense. Just, uh, I think a lot of things add up into you just being a bit sidelined.

    13. SB

      W- was it a predominantly white school?

    14. A(

      Predominantly, yeah. I did have Asian friends, but majority of them, yeah.

    15. SB

      And so you get given this phone, and that becomes your world.

    16. A(

      Yeah.

    17. SB

      What about your, your, your parents, your f- your immediate family?

    18. A(

      Uh, they're, they're amazing. They... There was obviously a little bit of questioning at the start. You know, when you're sitting in your back garden and you should be revising but you're shooting earphones and, you know, it's like a bit of, "Son, what are you doing?" Um, but as soon as they saw the, kind of the potential in YouTube, they've been just, like, all for it.

    19. SB

      Did they understand what it was, Asian parents?

    20. A(

      Yeah, yeah. Uh, I'm quite lucky, like, my parents are very entrepreneurial, they're very modern. Like, they've done it themselves. They're also business owners, so, like, they, they get it, you know? (laughs)

    21. SB

      And were you, were you an entrepreneur from an early age outside of the obsession with tech?

    22. A(

      Yeah. (laughs) I- I've done the usual, like, you know, like, maybe selling sweets in the playground and, uh, Young Enterprise. I don't know if you know what that is-

    23. SB

      Yeah, yeah.

    24. A(

      ... but, um, uh, I was, like, the managing director in our school for our Young Enterprise team. And I had this big idea of, like, we were gonna create a stylus that we were gonna pitch to Tesco and sell it to them. And we created the stylus, we created the packaging. It was beautiful. It looked like an Apple product. But, uh, (laughs) I think I was the only one with the vision, and I didn't do a good enough job of getting my team to believe in it. And so, like...... one man can't sell a product to a company like that, especially not like a 16-year-old boy at school. (laughs)

    25. SB

      Wow. So you were, you were, okay, you were trying to p- pitch to Tesco at 16 years old. Um, your family in terms of money s- w- w- how were they? Were they-

    26. A(

      Reasonable.

    27. SB

      Yeah.

    28. A(

      You know, when I was growing up, like, it's not like we had everything. Like, I couldn't just ask for what I wanted, but, you know, we had enough. Um, and I, I can't complain. To be honest, I think there is a benefit to having things somewhat held back from you.

    29. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    30. A(

      Like, I think it makes you appreciate when you do have things. I mean, you've had the same, right?

  3. 12:02 – 22:38

    Building confidence & practicing gratitude

    1. A(

    2. SB

      Do, do you think that, um, your YouTube journey has given you... 'Cause you said now that you feel like you're a confident person. Do you think YouTube has done that?

    3. A(

      Yes, but only if-- only because I've been quite proactive about it. So YouTube is, it's a really incredible thing in the sense that, like, n-- in no other career path can you get such immediate feedback. Like, when I post a video, within one minute, there might be 10,000 people watching it. There might be a thousand comments or 500 comments. And every single one of these data points, how many likes and dislikes it's got, that is a piece of data that tells you how you're doing. And so like, you can grow so quickly as a person, as well as a channel, if you know how to harness that data. Companies would kill for it.

    4. SB

      It sounds like emotionally dangerous-

    5. A(

      (laughs)

    6. SB

      ... for, for, for the crowd to be giving you feedback on who you are.

    7. A(

      Potentially. You, you develop a thick skin, I think, as you go through it, providing you have the right mindset. And I think as long as you can filter out the negativity, there is data hidden in those comments. Like, you almost have to strip away a layer-

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. A(

      ... and, and just kinda take what's useful.

    10. SB

      Is it ... It sounds easier said than done to, to avoid the negativity. I mean, like most of the guests that I've, I've had on the podcast, when they speak about negative comments, and these might be super successful celebrities in their own field, they still admit to being triggered, more so than they should, by just that one, that 1% negativity versus the 99% blowing smoke up arse.

    11. A(

      (laughs) Yeah, so I think it, it depends on if it's something you're insecure about. So if I'm insecure about, I don't know, let's say the, the shape of my face, and someone makes a nasty comment about the shape of my face, it's gonna sting. It's gonna sting a little.

    12. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    13. A(

      But like, because I think over the years I've grown confident about most aspects of myself, I think I stopped worrying about the negative comments because I'm, I'm okay with who I am.

    14. SB

      Yeah, I did a, did a question tag on Instagram this week. I said, "If I could write a book for you, what would it be about?" And one of the most popular things was confidence.

    15. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    16. SB

      So what advice would you give to, um, people listening that are low in confidence about how to build, build their confidence? 'Cause telling that, you know, us thinking of telling them all to build like a 10 million sub YouTube channel's (laughs) probably not, probably not attainable for everybody, but ...

    17. A(

      I, I think you have a very similar opinion to me on this, which is that you need to make it input-based rather than output-based. You can't pin yourself to a certain number of followers or anything so that you are confident. You have to make internal peace with yourself. And I mean, I look around on the street, like all the fans that come up to me and they're like, "Oh, can we get a photograph with you? You're incredible. I love your videos," I look at them like, "You're incredible as well. Look at you. Like, wha- what are you doing? You know, you've got a camera, you're snapping photos of buildings. Show me, that looks incredible." Um-

    18. SB

      No.

    19. A(

      ... I think everyone has their own story and their own great things about them, and people struggle to see it in themselves but they can see it in others.

    20. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    21. A(

      And I, I can't, like there's no person on this planet who I would look at and couldn't see good in them and couldn't see something great.

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm. If you were that young kid again that w- that was lacking in confidence at 14 years old, and say I couldn't give, say you couldn't do YouTube, say it didn't exist, what a- what else might you have done? Knowing what you know now about how your confidence has been built, what else w- could you have done to reach the same outcome?

    23. A(

      Oh boy.

    24. SB

      I'm really trying to get to like the, what i- what is it that made you c- come to peace with yourself? Um, 'cause, 'cause it sounds like it was a lot of people being nice?

    25. A(

      (laughs)

    26. SB

      After some weren't so nice when you were younger.

    27. A(

      Hmm. I, I think I'm quite a, I'm quite a proactive person, so if there's something about me that I don't like, I will try and fix it. Um, so a lot of people, uh, uh not many people know this actually, so when I was younger I used to have like a crooked nose, and it bothered me a lot. I used to like only sit at certain angles from people, and you know, I, I'd hide myself in the corners of rooms so people couldn't see the other side. And, uh, eventually I was just like, "This is a solvable problem. Why am I worrying about this?" So I just got, I got surgery done, and fixed it. And I think th- th- there's that, there's some things about you that you can't fix, and I think you just have to be very mechanical about them and be like, "This is me. I have good things and I have bad things, but the bad things I can't change. I'm gonna lean on the things that are good about me, fix the things I can fix, and the rest is life."

    28. SB

      (inhales) So on that point of having a good or bad nose, and this is me just going with the wind now 'cause I find this super intriguing, um, something I've thought a lot about, um, who, who, who was to say that your nose was bad?

    29. A(

      People would laugh at me, so I guess others. (laughs)

    30. SB

      It's interesting. Society says, you know, "This is not good about you." Is there a risk in then changing to please them, do you think? Because I feel like that might be a slippery slope.

  4. 22:38 – 31:18

    Playing out your dream to the detriment of myself

    1. A(

      at my sort of like statistics and be like, "Oh, imagine 100,000 subscribers. Imagine 500,000 subscribers." I would dream of those numbers. And, uh, you almost don't quite realize as you toddle past those numbers in reality because you're already ready for the next thing. You're so focused on like, uh, making it even bigger, even better, getting that phone even earlier before launch and, and all these things, you, you have to stop yourself.

    2. SB

      Do you stop yourself? Be honest with me. Are you successful in that?

    3. A(

      I'm really happy. (laughs)

    4. SB

      Yeah.

    5. A(

      I'm a really, really happy guy. Um, so I, I'd like to think yes. I didn't used to be. Even, even three, four years ago, I didn't used to be. Um, when I graduated, I, I had this pent-up energy from YouTube because I'd been doing it throughout, but I was also juggling it with my studies, and I wanted to get a first, and I also didn't wanna have a terrible social life. So I was doing all these things, and it was kind of this, this crazy whirlwind of just kind of like activity to activity, jumping between filming, to lectures, to homework, to nights out. And so when I actually graduated, I was like, "Right, I'm gonna give everything to YouTube." So I made one video every single day for at least six months. And it, it drove me to the point where I, one time, I just broke down crying on camera. Um, I never published that, but I have a, I have a photo which I sometimes look back on to remind me of like what, what it took. Um, and so that, that reminds me.

    6. SB

      Why were you crying?

    7. A(

      It, it was, uh, a lot of things had sort of come to the fore. It was, it was exhaustion in the moment because it was, it was really hot, and I was just kinda like my hands hurt and my, my voice hurt, my throat was cracking, but it was also this kind of long-term buildup that led to it.Um, it was, it was actually a bit of a pivot point in my career, because I sat down like, "This isn't actually what I wanted." Um, it, it was a realization that I've actually ... You know, my channel's growing. All these metrics are looking up, but, (laughs) but this isn't.

    8. SB

      Hmm.

    9. A(

      You know? Um, my brain. Um, and it made, it immediately made me change mindset from hard work to smart work. It was... I suddenly started thinking, like, "Do I... Which tasks do I need to be there for, and how do I make sure I'm only doing those tasks?" And also, it made me take a step back from, "I'm not doing a video every day. I've gotta look at the data, look at these retention graphs, find out how to maximize the click-through rates," all these kinds of things. It allowed me to take a step back, breathe, and focus on how to utilize my brain to the best of its ability.

    10. SB

      In terms of mental health, you tapped your head then when you said you'd optimized for, I guess, YouTube performance, but you hadn't optimized for your mental wellbeing. At your lowest, what, w- what was, what was the, what w- what state was your mind in? Your, w- your wellbeing?

    11. A(

      I've never been depressed, I would say. I think I've, I'm quite resilient as well as being quite lucky. Um, but I got to a stage where emotionally, physically, just exhaustion, I think, is how I would put it. Very, very tired to the point where I didn't have time for friends, for family. Like, by the time I'd finished, they were asleep. Um, I'd, I'd kind of screwed myself into a little hole, (laughs) and that hole was my bedroom-

    12. SB

      Hmm.

    13. A(

      ... where I'd film.

    14. SB

      So I think that's what people call burnout.

    15. A(

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      Typically.

    17. A(

      Yeah.

    18. SB

      But-

    19. A(

      But I wouldn't let myself stop.

    20. SB

      Why not?

    21. A(

      B- because I told myself that, like, this was my dream and that one video a day was the way to achieve that dream. A- a- and so, like, there was just something inside me which was like, "You can't stop now. Like, you're there. This is, this is the runway. Just run."

    22. SB

      What did you tell yourself your dream was?

    23. A(

      I would look at other YouTubers when I was a kid and just, like, you know, they had, like, a million subscribers, for example, and they were getting all this tech through the door, and their entire job was to just test it and learn about it. And I remember just being like, "Th- that's the best thing in the world." Like, "I'm fascinated by technology. I would love to be able to just see all this stuff." 'C- 'cause when I was younger, I didn't, I didn't get to play with the latest stuff, you know? I was, I wasn't the kid who had the latest Game Boy or anything like that. Um, so, so I guess that really appealed to me.

    24. SB

      So your idea of happiness when you were younger was getting sent amazing technology and being able to just, like, do what you love, talk about it. So you, you s- s- I guess you set yourself this plan of just being, making a video every single day in the, th- I guess, the thought that that would lead to your, your dream, and y- I guess you, you, you realized at some point that your strategy was unsustainable.

    25. A(

      Yeah.

    26. SB

      And-

    27. A(

      Good way of putting it. (laughs)

    28. SB

      (laughs) Yeah. It just felt like a really ... Like, you still wanted the same goal, but your strategy in terms of getting there was just unsustainable.

    29. A(

      Hmm.

    30. SB

      Oh my God, it just ... I, I relate to that so much in so many different ways, and I think a lot of people don't realize that you have to set up your goals as marathons, not sprints, if you, you do want-

  5. 31:18 – 35:43

    Hard work

    1. SB

      so let's talk about that point then, hard work. A lot of people say that hard work is, um, it's toxic-

    2. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      ... et cetera. What do you say to that?

    4. A(

      Oh, the whole, uh, (laughs) wake up at 4:00 AM, that, that kind of attitude?

    5. SB

      Yeah.

    6. A(

      Yeah, I don't think that's the way forward. If anything, actually, I think sleep is a, a really practical, productive thing to be doing. Um, if anything, I wish I was better at it. I actually struggle a lot with my sleep, and I'm really trying to improve. I've actually got your, um, episode with the sleep expert on my watch later list (laughs) .

    7. SB

      Oh, God.

    8. A(

      Um, yeah.

    9. SB

      No pressure (laughs) .

    10. A(

      Yeah, um-

    11. SB

      No, she, she says some really important things.

    12. A(

      I, I'm gonna watch it on the way home (laughs) .

    13. SB

      Yeah, yeah (laughs) .

    14. A(

      Um, so I'm not of that opinion. I think there is a time and place for really hard work, but it has to be for a cause that... It has to be for the greater goal.

    15. SB

      Hmm.

    16. A(

      Um, yeah, I think, I think you talked about this with, uh, on the episode with Ali.

    17. SB

      Yeah.

    18. A(

      Yeah.

    19. SB

      Yeah, yeah.

    20. A(

      And, and what was the conclusion you came to?

    21. SB

      Well, I, I, I can't actually remember exactly, um, what we came to, but my general thinking on hard work is that, um, and, and I guess burnout, is when you're doing something that y- you can s- where you consider the reward of doing it meaningful and worthwhile-

    22. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SB

      ... then hard work really is important. And I actually listened to Elon Musk this weekend talk about this. He said the exact same thing. He said when you believe that you're doing the correct thing, and it's a noble or, like, meaningful goal, then hard work is really, really important, and it's also will help you, uh, avoid burnout. But when you're doing hard work for a task that you don't think is meaningful, like working in a factory-

    24. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    25. SB

      ... for s- 14-hour days, and it's, and it's not stimulating your mind, and it's just hard work for minimum wage-

    26. A(

      Yeah.

    27. SB

      ... burnout is inevitable, and it's just around the corner. And that, for me, is like, oh God, that's my dream nightmare.

    28. A(

      Yeah.

    29. SB

      Hard work, hard meaningless work, it, for me, is the en- is the definition of, like, lose your fucking marbles insanity.

    30. A(

      I think I'm very lucky in that sense, in that, like, I found my calling.

  6. 35:43 – 42:09

    What made you go after your calling?

    1. SB

      How did you find your calling then? So, what is it... And I don't mean, uh, 'cause I know your story. We all do. But what is it about you that when your calling showed up, you had the whatever, I don't wanna give, I don't wanna put answers in your mouth-

    2. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      ... to say, "That's it. I'm gonna go in that direction"? 'Cause a lot of people wouldn't see playing around with mobile phones as a, uh, possibility.

    4. A(

      Uh, I would say, uh, light in the dark. Um, it was very obvious to me because of what the alternatives were. Like, I was kind of... I think a lot of people follow the path, and the path basically dictates that the subjects you are strong in, you study a degree that is similar to those subjects. And then those degrees usually have a next stepping stone and a next stepping stone, and you'll just kind of, you'll shoot down.... unless you veer off. You ha- you have to actively veer off that path. And so, I was very much going down the kind of, "I'm strong at maths, therefore I'm gonna do an economics degree. I'm doing, I'm doing an economics degree, so I'm gonna be a consultant." I was going down that path.

    5. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    6. A(

      And I'm just, I was just lucky that I was also doing this other thing which excited me so much. And so, comparing the two, when it became clear to me that actually YouTube could be a career as well, um, it was just an obvious choice.

    7. SB

      Do you ever reflect on what might have happened if you didn't have the conviction to go for...

    8. A(

      I thi- I think I would've become a consultant, which is terrifying (laughs) .

    9. SB

      Hmm.

    10. A(

      I, I wish I could say I wasn't, but, you know, that's the work experience I did, that was the job I was offered. So, given there was no outside option, I, I probably would've taken it.

    11. SB

      And a lot of people have done that in their lives, they've followed those sort of sequential steps-

    12. A(

      Yeah.

    13. SB

      ... and ended up somewhere, and they're listening to this right now and thinking, "Fuck." (laughs)

    14. A(

      (laughs) It's tricky, because you don't want to just quit your job one day for a, you know, potential startup you might have with a 10% chance of succeeding. You ca- you can't do that, right? Like, w- what advice do you give to people in that situation?

    15. SB

      Well, this isn't about me. (laughs)

    16. A(

      (laughs)

    17. SB

      No, but I, I really do, I really do. I always say what you said at the start, which is about just increasing the amount of experiments you make, as, as, uh, like, co- cost, um, cost-effective experiments you're making as young as you possibly can. Which is exactly what you've described, which means go to another country, spend two weeks, and quit really fucking quickly.

    18. A(

      Yes.

    19. SB

      And just, like, rapid quit. The minute you're like, "I hate this," quit, move on, try in... And I think people that are exposed to, as you say, the most data, the most information-

    20. A(

      Mm.

    21. SB

      ... are able to make more informed decisions about what they enjoy. And you can take that part of that job, where you got to do this thing, and mix it with this part of this job where you got to do that thing, and slowly weave your way towards the thing that gives you the most fulfillment.

    22. A(

      Yeah.

    23. SB

      But as we say, I know, because I know the people that listen to this podcast, there's so many people right now in jobs where they've kind of, like, ended up there working in KPMG or PwC in the city wearing a suit and tie, and they know that job isn't for them.

    24. A(

      Mm.

    25. SB

      They know it's not for them, but they, they, they just maybe they're, you know, they're...

    26. A(

      But there is also an element, I think, of, like, we live in a society where social media is prevalent, and people log on to Instagram every day and see other people who are leading better lives than them-

    27. SB

      Apparently.

    28. A(

      Or apparently, yeah.

    29. SB

      Yeah.

    30. A(

      And I think there is an element of gratefulness with the job you do have-

  7. 42:09 – 59:43

    How do you maintain meaningful relationships?

    1. SB

      On this point of friends, then, and relationships, how, how are you doing, and, and what are your tips? You're super ambitious, you're scaling this big business, um, on YouTube. What are your strategies to maintain meaningful relationships amongst all this chaos? 'Cause I struggle.

    2. A(

      Yeah. I, I try and make sure it's quality time. So, I think I spend less time texting-... and more time seeing people. Like, if I spend two hours texting one of my friends, that is much less of a quality connection than two hours of seeing that person, of being able to have a fluid conversation and being able to see them and see their facial expressions, and their gesticulations, and all that. So I pretty much plan my time such that the minute I finish work, I am doing something in person with the people I care about-

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. A(

      ... whether that's a board game with my family or a night out with my friends. Th- there's very little downtime, but in a good way.

    5. SB

      Do you have to be somewhat of a contradiction in who you are to have quality relationships? Um, do you have to be a different guy? 'Cause what I'm saying is, professionally, everything is about return on time. If I spend one hour, what am I getting back?

    6. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      Do you have to be a different guy to get the most out of your social life in terms of that- that sort of, like, time efficiency, I'm the boss, da-da-da-da?

    8. A(

      Yeah, it sounds very transactional to look at relationships like that. Um, I think every person actually does view them in the same way, they just don't put the labels on it. I think really, we're all doing the same things as humans where, you know, we've got a s- a set of 10 decisions in our heads, things we could do, and we pick the one that's best for us. But I think I just attach a framework to it s- that allows me to think about it easier. Um, so I think I'd be doing the same thing, even if I didn't think about it in that way.

    9. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    10. A(

      I'm just, the way I think about it allows me to plan it better. (laughs)

    11. SB

      Mm-hmm. And you value those things? You- you now value those?

    12. A(

      Oh, when I- when I finish a day of work and I know I'm about to go see my friends, like, my heart starts pumping. I get so excited.

    13. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    14. A(

      I just, like, I get off the station at St. Pancras sometimes and I just, I feel like a- like a free bird.

    15. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    16. A(

      And like I know there's gonna be a little adventure that weekend, and it's, I think those moments make your life worth living.

    17. SB

      Do you have a lot of friends?

    18. A(

      Not many, but- but they're good ones. (laughs)

    19. SB

      Roughly how many?

    20. A(

      I have, I'd say-

    21. SB

      Like, good friends, like brothers, like, you know what I mean?

    22. A(

      Six.

    23. SB

      Or sisters.

    24. A(

      Six friends.

    25. SB

      Six, yeah.

    26. A(

      And that's pretty much my entire circle. I think the only friends I have are good friends.

    27. SB

      Hmm.

    28. A(

      The r- the rest of them I've almost decided that realistically (laughs) I'm not gonna be able to make this friendship work.

    29. SB

      Yeah.

    30. A(

      And it- it's sad, like, sometimes it's even just geographical. Some of my friends after university, they- they moved to France or Indonesia or Hong Kong, and just the fact that they're in another country has meant that realistically, our- my friendship with that person is just gonna be a series of messages, "Hey, how are you doing?"

  8. 59:43 – 1:06:34

    Money

    1. SB

    2. A(

      Maybe.

    3. SB

      Well, what, money then, let's talk about money. What, what role does it play in your life?

    4. A(

      So when I was growing up, um, like I said, I wasn't underprivileged, so I had, I had all, everything basic covered, but there was definitely, uh, w- things I wanted.

    5. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    6. A(

      You know, I wanted the latest toys, I wanted the latest trading cards, whatever it was. Um, so when I first started getting income from YouTube, I was very happy with it. You know, I would buy things off Amazon and like make myself short-term happy, just fill, fill those little gaps that I had in my childhood, I guess.

    7. SB

      Would you go looking for things to buy?

    8. A(

      Sometimes.

    9. SB

      Yeah.

    10. A(

      I think I would.

    11. SB

      Same.

    12. A(

      Um, it, it's that first, initial feeling of freedom and like, y- it almost doesn't feel real when you can order things off, off your own card and like they come to you and it's like, "I've earned this. This is my treat." Um, but after a period of time, I realized that like the things that I actually want don't cost very much. (laughs) And so, I actually, I've purposefully not bought myself a nice car, because I actually, I'm very aware that as humans we adjust.

    13. SB

      Slippery slope.

    14. A(

      It's a slippery slope, and I know that e- even if, let's say, 20 years in the future I own a, a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, there's no point rushing to get there, because I know from that point all I'm gonna be thinking is, "What's next?"And so, you might as well get a Polo first, and then maybe get, uh, an A-class Mercedes, and then maybe get a, a nice Nissan. Uh, I don't know, work your way up. Even if- even if you could get a nice car now, like what- what's the rush? Just enjoy the journey. It's like, I see it like a video game. Like, do you play many games?

    15. SB

      Yeah.

    16. A(

      So, I always find myself, when I play games, I am rushing to finish them, and I wanna- I wanna get to that last boss, I wanna beat it for the final reward. But then as soon as I do that, I just- I lose all interest in the game, and it- it- there's so many parallels between that and real life. You know, what do you do when you have so much money that you don't know what to do with it? You just- you find things to do with it, and that in itself is- is a, you know, it's just another thing to do.

    17. SB

      It makes me feel sick sometimes that I still have these moments where I will, like, glance at a mansion on, like, Rightmove-

    18. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    19. SB

      ... and then I genuinely have this sick feeling in my stomach because I know what my life then means. Do you know what I mean? Like, genuinely, it would probably make me r- miserable because I'd have to move out of London, which means I'm further away from friends and people can't come to me, and then I'm in this eight-bedroom house-

    20. A(

      Yeah.

    21. SB

      ... that no one can come to anyway, and I feel that sickness.

    22. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SB

      Uh, it's- it- like when I- I feel the same way when I look at, like, the Lamborghinis and the Rolls-Royces, which I always c- come back to, "I'm gonna buy one." It's like the insecure kid shows up. And then I get that, like, belly sickness where I go-

    24. A(

      Tightness. (laughs)

    25. SB

      Yeah.

    26. A(

      Yeah.

    27. SB

      It's like, "Well, Steve, if you do that, you know what this means."

    28. A(

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    29. SB

      You know what treadmill you're like. (laughs)

    30. A(

      There- there is some part of you that's pulling you, and you've gotta be like, "Stop."

  9. 1:06:34 – 1:11:27

    How do you enjoy aspects outside the excitement of YouTube?

    1. A(

    2. SB

      So what do you do about that? How do you- how do you- how are you able to enjoy... And you don't have to have the answer. We're all works in progress. You're being 25. But how are you able to enjoy other parts of life with your partner who wants to just go to, I don't know-

    3. A(

      Go shopping. (laughs)

    4. SB

      ... go shopping or have a picnic?

    5. A(

      Um, I think the key is- is detoxing every now and again. You've heard of the whole, like, dopamine detox?

    6. SB

      Not really.

    7. A(

      Uh, so- so it's the idea of completely depriving yourself from all stimulation for periods of time.So no music, no phone, no internet, nothing. Just very simple pleasures. And so like whenever I get the opportunity to do those, I will take them. And so like, I have these periodic moments of complete release where I'm doing nothing stimulating, and they're quite difficult, to be honest. Like the urge is definitely there to run up and check my notifications but I refrain just because I know long-term, like I need to stop.

    8. SB

      And how long are these periods of dopamine detox?

    9. A(

      It's whenever I, I can afford to do them. I mean, I think in a best case scenario you'd do it regularly, but for me it's more like if I finish a big stint of work and I'm just exhausted I'll say, "Okay, next day and a half, I'm doing, I'm doing very little." I'm gonna talk to people and, um, drink coffee, you know?

    10. SB

      And what impact does that have?

    11. A(

      I think it brings you down to earth again. It- it reminds you of the things that are important and it allows you to enjoy them. Y- you only need a couple of hours, and I think you can very quickly start to appreciate things that you'd forgotten to appreciate before because you were caught up on Social Blade statistics.

    12. SB

      Is there... We talked a lot about the positive sides of this, um, meteoric rise you had on YouTube and how it helped you, like be a bit more secure in yourself and understand yourself a bit better. But are there some character- characteristics or, um, I guess side effects of this that are probably irreversible now that you...

    13. A(

      Irreversible?

    14. SB

      Yeah, like irreversible consequences of this meteoric success on YouTube that are negative, in your view. I mean that- that was kind of one of them there, but...

    15. A(

      Yeah. It, the only thing that comes to mind, I suppose you'd almost have to ask the people around me to get-

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. A(

      ... a proper answer, but the only thing that comes to mind is how cagey I am with my time. I think because of how much I plan it and because of how self-aware I am of how important it is, I- I very much find myself in situations where I'm like, "Okay, this was great, gotta go, bye." Um, and I- I do really enjoy these break times but I do also cut them. (laughs) Um, and I think for other people who- who aren't as cagey with their time, they probably see that as like a, "Oh, he's gotta go again. Classic Aaron," you know?

    18. SB

      Mm-hmm. Or rudeness or something.

    19. A(

      Maybe, yeah. I've been told actually a few times in the past that actually like, I start a conversation, realize I don't have time for it then leave. (laughs) Um, but I used to do that at university because what would happen is, you know, you go out your room, you're living with your friends, you talk to someone, and before you know it there's seven people in the corridor chatting-

    20. SB

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    21. A(

      ... and even though I was the one who started the conversation I'd have to go because I'm like, "Okay, it's 7:30, I've gotta start scripting YouTube."

    22. SB

      Yeah, yeah.

    23. A(

      Um, and some people would be like, "Well that was a bit rude," which I can understand but there was no other way I could've got what I needed to get done, done.

    24. SB

      You don't regret that though, do you?

    25. A(

      No, I don't. I don't regret it because I think the people who have ended up as my core friends, they- they understand.

    26. SB

      I tend to also believe that the people that have reached fulfillment and success with their lives are really, they have like a high boundary set for the use of their time. At the end of the day, as I s- talk about a- a lot, um, it's the only resource we all have.

    27. A(

      Yeah.

    28. SB

      Allocating it in a really efficient manner towards things that matter, I think is important but a lot of people won't. They'll find themselves in that hallway conversation and they won't wanna be rude because they're people pleasing-

    29. A(

      Mm-hmm.

    30. SB

      ... so they'll end up spending like two hours talking about things they don't care about with people they don't really like.

  10. 1:11:27 – 1:18:52

    Your growth on Youtube

    1. SB

      You've, um, you've grown, you know, this YouTube channel over the last, what, 10 years roughly?

    2. A(

      10 years.

    3. SB

      Um, from zero to over eight million subscribers. In terms of your growth trajectory, what story does that tell?

    4. A(

      Um...

    5. SB

      How quickly you grew, how exponential, was that an S curve, was it slow then fast?

    6. A(

      It's- it's been pretty much slow then fast. Somewhat exponential I'd say. So- so right now, um, uh, my channel is growing much faster than where it is proportionately, so the- the percentage growth on my channel is really high. Like one of the highest on YouTube, um, and I've only actually got a team of two people in total to be honest. (laughs)

Episode duration: 1:33:04

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