Jack Maynard: The Untold Story: How Being Thrown Out The Jungle Changed My Life Forever | E71

Jack Maynard 0:00 That's it. I was like, "My career is over." (dramatic music) Oh, yeah. I had, like, no confidence or no... I was, like, a shell of, like, my former self.

Steven Bartlett 0:15 You don't often get to hear about the real human implications of cancel culture. You don't get to hear how it feels for the recipitant. You don't get to see how it plays out in the moment. My next guest, he can tell you. Jack Maynard was caught in the middle of a well-known, well-documented British cancel culture moment when something that he had said almost 10 years earlier resurfaced while he was at the peak of his powers, while he was fulfilling his dream, while he was in the middle of filming I'm a Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here! a couple of years ago. And the events that would unfold following that cancel culture moment would change him forever. PTSD, anxiety, depression, shame. He even remarked today that there was, uh, a high chance he wasn't gonna make it to this podcast because some of those symptoms still remain. I guess the question is, how do you pick yourself up from something like that? How do those moments feel? What actually happens when you're told while you're in the middle of the jungle in Australia filming a show that the outside world has turned against you? These are the things you can only learn from hearing the truth from someone that's been through those situations. So without further ado, my name is Stephen Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

Steven Bartlett 1:44 So Jack, um, I did a lot of research on you and your, your background, what you're into, the work you do.

Jack Maynard 1:50 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:50 And your sort of professional endeavors are quite eclectic. They... You know, it's hard to pin down whether you consider yourself to be a YouTuber now-

Jack Maynard 1:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:58 ... or a DJ-

Jack Maynard 2:00 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 2:00 ... or something else. So I wanted to-

Jack Maynard 2:02 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 2:03 Despite all the research, I wanted to ask you, like... I'm not a fan of, like, l- labeling oneself-

Jack Maynard 2:07 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 2:08 ... but how do you, how do you classify yourself now?

Jack Maynard 2:09 I still do describe myself as a YouTuber, like, to everyone I meet. I kind of say, "Oh, yeah," you know? "I do YouTube." And you still to this day get a look of, like, "What do you mean you do YouTube? That's your job?" But I think, like you just said, there's kind of a collective of things that I do. And when I kind of break it down to everything I do, they, yeah, like kind of fully understand now. Like, very recently as well, people have only just started to understand, like, what it actually is and that YouTube and just social media itself can be obviously a job. So, yeah, I still go for YouTuber as my go-to.

Steven Bartlett 2:44 You s- you don't post as much as you used to on your main channel.

Jack Maynard 2:46 On YouTube, no. Mainly because literally at the beginning of last year, I decided, right, I wanna go kind of bigger productions, a lot like a lot of the music videos I've done and, and things like that, and I just wanna kind of get out there, like other... I'm kind of really wanting to just get loads of, like, celebrities and, like, reality TV stars on my channel and do loads of fun things in places like, you know, all over (laughs) the world with them. And then, obviously, kind of COVID came in. So I was just at a point where I was so, like, honestly, like, sick to death of filming videos at home, like, in my flat, you know, that I was honestly just beyond bored, and I had so many other things I was doing as well.

Steven Bartlett 3:27 You have... I, I think you sh- I think I saw four videos this year on your YouTube channel.

Jack Maynard 3:32 Yeah. Not many, is it? (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 3:33 No. (laughs)

Jack Maynard 3:33 Considering I was uploading-

Steven Bartlett 3:35 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 3:35 ... once or twice a week-

Steven Bartlett 3:36 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 3:36 ... before. But yeah, like I said, I really just kind of couldn't face doing those kind of videos. And, and for me, YouTube's always been something that I enjoy so much, and my best videos are honestly the videos I've kind of enjoyed making the most.

Steven Bartlett 3:50 What's the, like the... You know, people will look at YouTubers, espec- especially young kids, and they think, "Oh, God. I'd love to be a YouTuber." I think I read a report-

Jack Maynard 3:57 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 3:57 ... that said, um, one of the, especially in the, the Western world in the UK, one of the jobs that people aspired, young kids aspire to the most, gen Z, is to become a YouTuber.

Jack Maynard 4:05 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 4:06 But I'm sure, and I know because I've spoken to a lot of YouTubers, that there's a lot of, um, adverse side effects-

Jack Maynard 4:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 4:13 ... of the job.

Jack Maynard 4:14 Yeah, definitely. I think... Well, the first thing is people think it's obviously e- Like, people do think it's easy, 100%. You know, you get to sit around making silly videos in their eyes. I think if you ask, you know, 100 people, probably 80 of them would probably say, "Oh, they just kinda sit around making, like, stupid videos." They don't see a lot of the stuff (laughs) kinda that goes into it. But it's definitely not easy. You know, there's no guarantee that you're gonna do well on it. You have no idea if you do well on it, how long that will last and all... Like, you know, there's all those kinda things. And it's just, like, a lot of pressure because it's not like a, "Oh, I know I'm gonna do these every week. I'm gonna get paid, like, X amount. This is gonna be my job. This is gonna be my career." Like, you're on a salary. It's like, no. You could, you know, you could put all your time and effort into it and maybe, like, money into certain things you're trying to do, and if it doesn't pay off, it's definitely...

Steven Bartlett 5:06 And the algorithm changes.

Jack Maynard 5:07 Yeah. Uh, yeah. Well, things are changing on it constantly. You've gotta really, like, kind of try and-

Steven Bartlett 5:12 The numbers drop.

Jack Maynard 5:14 ... keep up. Yeah, exactly. It just-

Steven Bartlett 5:14 You get anxious.

Jack Maynard 5:15 Yeah. You can have a month where you do really bad or you upload a certain video that you're really proud of and it does really bad, and you're just like, "Oh, God. Why is that?" And then you kinda fall back to your safety net of things that you know maybe will do well, but you don't wanna do those anymore. And it's just like a... Yeah, it's very hard, and I think it does affect people in, like, many different ways. Some people kind of love that and they love the challenge and wanna keep on going, which is amazing.

Steven Bartlett 5:39 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 5:39 But yeah. Like I said, there are people who want to do this one thing which can-

Steven Bartlett 5:43 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 5:43 ... do incredibly well, and then it switches, and it suddenly doesn't do well anymore.

Steven Bartlett 5:47 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 5:47 Not through any fault of their own, but just because YouTube have kind of decided, "Yeah, we wanna see more of stuff like this."

Steven Bartlett 5:53 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 5:53 And they can push all that kinda content. And yet, people get incredibly bad, like, mental health from it. And I think people are very vocal about that now as well, which is...... which is amazing. So it's really good, but I think, yeah, especially, obviously, all YouTubers are pretty much, like, self-employed, so if you are doing very well and then one minute it drops and that's it.

Steven Bartlett 6:13 I remember Frankie Cocozza said to me-

Jack Maynard 6:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:15 Do you know Frankie?

Jack Maynard 6:16 Yeah. He's from Brighton.

Steven Bartlett 6:17 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 6:18 That's where I grew up, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:18 Frankie said to me one day, and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, that, um, obv- obviously after all the fame he had-

Jack Maynard 6:23 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 6:23 ... at a fairly young age, X Factor, he did a couple of other shows, and then the money dried up-

Jack Maynard 6:27 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:27 ... and he was like, "Well I can't go and work at fucking Tesco now because I just-"

Jack Maynard 6:31 Yeah. He has, like, an ego still.

Steven Bartlett 6:33 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 6:33 He doesn't have the money-

Steven Bartlett 6:33 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 6:34 ... but the ego's kind of still there in a way.

Steven Bartlett 6:36 And I see that with YouTubers a lot, I think. I think they... Because they've, they've been in the public spotlight and they've built fame-

Jack Maynard 6:43 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:43 ... you know, or notoriety in whatever way, they then feel like they, they can't go and have a normal life because-

Jack Maynard 6:48 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:49 Fame. Your, your, your family are fairly famous, I'd say.

Jack Maynard 6:52 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:52 Got fame

Jack Maynard 6:52 Relatively.

Steven Bartlett 6:53 ... running through it.

Jack Maynard 6:53 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:54 Heard your, your, your grandpa, your grandparent, your grandad and your dad were also singers?

Jack Maynard 6:57 Yeah. So my grandad, I, I don't know, like, too much about it. So I know my dad pretty sure did, like, West End when he was younger, kinda like a kid. Set up-

Steven Bartlett 7:06 But you might just be making that up. (laughs)

Jack Maynard 7:07 Very... (laughs) Could be making it up. I have no evidence of this.

Steven Bartlett 7:10 I used to be a football player when I was

Narrator 7:12 (laughs)

Jack Maynard 7:12 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 7:12 You know. (laughs)

Jack Maynard 7:12 But, so he did that, and then, yeah, my grandad as well was, like, a kind of, like, stage singer.

Steven Bartlett 7:17 Nice.

Jack Maynard 7:17 Things like that. Um, so I think that's probably where my brother gets it from, that's for sure, and I guess he's had, like, the most fame out of all of us. Um, but, again, yeah, he kind of started on it. He's the more, you know, traditional, like, famous, like, pop star, whatever you wanna call it, but he kind of s- yeah, the same as me, started on YouTube and he's kind of, like, back to that now as well. It's kind of gone full circle, so he's kind of back on there and...

Steven Bartlett 7:41 How was that when, when he... I've got two brothers, and I know people ask you a lot and I've seen them ask you a million times, like, "Oh, are you jealous of your brother?" Or, like, whatever.

Jack Maynard 7:48 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 7:48 But, um, how was that when he started to get a little bit more well known? Um, and you're a younger brother.

Jack Maynard 7:55 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 7:55 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 7:55 He's two years older than me.

Steven Bartlett 7:56 So I've got two older brothers as well, so I can relate.

Jack Maynard 7:59 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 7:59 But I can't relate to them being famous. (laughs)

Jack Maynard 8:01 Yeah. To be honest, it was there, like, honestly was no jealousy because I think, one, I was so young. Like, I was literally still in school, just finishing school, like, leaving school. He was, like, kind of, yeah, relatively famous, got signed, all of this, so he was doing, like, really well, great money coming in, like, moved to London, all of these things, so it was just, like, so cool. (laughs) For me, it was, like, so cool to just be around all of that stuff and just experience it all with him. So it was kind of more, again, like I said, not jealousy, but I, like, saw, I just saw, like, opportunity there.

Steven Bartlett 8:30 Yeah, you can kind of see it.

Jack Maynard 8:30 I was like, "There must be something-"

Steven Bartlett 8:32 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 8:33 "... I can do, even if it's, like, working for my brother somehow or doing something."

Steven Bartlett 8:36 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 8:36 God knows what it would have been, but, like, I knew I could've kind of figured something out, and just conveniently my brother, like, basically broke up with his girlfriend, she moved out, and he was like, "Oh, do you wanna come and live in London with me?" And I was like-

Steven Bartlett 8:52 Yes.

Jack Maynard 8:52 ... "Yes." Obviously.

Steven Bartlett 8:53 (laughs)

Jack Maynard 8:53 I wanna do that, absolutely. So I made a deal with my brother because he kind of knew. He was like... I was always um-ing and ah-ing about starting YouTube and he was like, "Well, let's make a deal." This was the best deal (laughs) I kind of, like, ever made in my life in a way. He was like, "I'll let you live in London with me rent-free, but you have to, like, you know, promise to, your makeover and put out a YouTube video once a week, every week, just like-"

Steven Bartlett 9:16 Why did he say that to you?

Jack Maynard 9:17 Because I think he, like... It just needed, he needed to, like, incentive for me that I am, like, actively, like, working and I'm... At the same time, I was still trying to find other work in London. But it's, like, he wanted me to live with him, and like he did, he did. He kind of, like, needed me to live with him in a way, but at the same time, yeah, he didn't want me just living there rent-free.

Steven Bartlett 9:39 Sure. Doing nothing.

Jack Maynard 9:40 Living it up, doing nothing. So yeah, it was, like, a pretty good deal, and very fortunately for me, couldn't really pinpoint why, but yeah, my YouTube, like, took off really, really fast. After about, kind of two months of doing YouTube, didn't really need to find a job anymore. I was making, like, more than enough money to kind of carry on, and luckily he was, like, really good friends with people, like... And well, and then so was I at this point, like Caspar Lee, Joe Sugg, all of these who were, you know-

Steven Bartlett 10:10 OGs. (laughs)

Jack Maynard 10:11 OGs and, like, huge at this time. So we all just kind of started filming, you know, every video, like, all together as, like, a big group, and then it just, like, yeah, really, like, blew up from there, so...

Steven Bartlett 10:23 The golden days.

Jack Maynard 10:23 Pretty lucky. Yeah, definitely, definitely the golden days.

Steven Bartlett 10:26 Golden days of YouTube, right?

Jack Maynard 10:26 That's for sure. Yeah, it was...

Steven Bartlett 10:28 Everyone talks about those moments. Like, Alpha-

Jack Maynard 10:29 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 10:29 ... does the same, and I know Josh, I've met him a few times, and...

Jack Maynard 10:32 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's fair to say it was so much easier then.

Steven Bartlett 10:35 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 10:35 Like, I could sit at home and film some weird game with my friends and get, like, three million views in, like, a week just off that one video, so it was just like-

Steven Bartlett 10:43 But now?

Jack Maynard 10:43 Now if I did that, it wouldn't, yeah, it wouldn't do the same. So this is when I got to the point where I was like, "Right, I wanna do h- like, something different from all the others. I don't wanna come up with the next YouTube idea. I kinda wanna break ground in terms of, like, TV and-

Steven Bartlett 10:58 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 10:59 ... and YouTube."

Jack Maynard 11:00 Um...

Steven Bartlett 11:00 TV?

Jack Maynard 11:00 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:01 Your first experience on TV, mainstream TV-

Jack Maynard 11:04 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:04 ... was that on I'm A Celeb?

Jack Maynard 11:05 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:06 How did you feel? You get the phone call.

Jack Maynard 11:08 Um, I didn't think it was gonna... I honestly did not think I was gonna get on it whatsoever, but I was like, "Let's definitely go to that meeting, you know, the whole thing of let-"

Steven Bartlett 11:15 So you get a phone call-

Jack Maynard 11:15 "... so they can see my face and all this other..."

Steven Bartlett 11:17 ... and they're like, "We'd love to just chat to you about something." You go and meet them, yeah.

Jack Maynard 11:19 Yeah. Just called me in for, like, a meeting and don't know what it was that day. I remember leaving the meeting thinking either they're just, like, really nice and good at acting or that went, like, so well.

Steven Bartlett 11:30 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 11:30 I was just, like, kinda felt like I was fire that day.

Steven Bartlett 11:33 (laughs)

Jack Maynard 11:33 I g- I got to winn- there were, like, nothing to lose. I was like, "I'm not gonna get it, but this will be..." You know, I was more thinking, "Cool, maybe next year."

Steven Bartlett 11:40 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 11:41 Then the next one, then I, like, will get on if I carry on and do all this kind of stuff.

Steven Bartlett 11:44 Was it an audition? Or-

Jack Maynard 11:45 It wasn't an audition, it was just a meeting.

Steven Bartlett 11:47 Meet and greet, right?

Jack Maynard 11:47 We met, like, the, like, the casting people, I guess. I kn- and I know a few of my friends had also met them. I think, like, Caspar and stuff-

Steven Bartlett 11:56 Ah.

Jack Maynard 11:56 ... had also met them. It was, like, two months after I just had the meeting, and I never told anyone for some reason. Like, again, like I said, because I just didn't think it was gonna happen. And then the boys, "Oh, yeah, I had this, like, meeting as well." And I was like, "Oh..."Oh. We all went there then. The Bastards. So I was like- Yeah. ... "Oh, God. I'm up against, like-" I feel like cheating. I'm like- "... these people." I was like- Yeah. ... "I'm def- I'm, I don't think I'm gonna get it then." They were like, "Oh, yeah. No, we got the ... We got told, like, a couple of weeks ago that, 'Oh, it's,' you know, 'it's not gonna go any further, but thanks for coming in.'" And I was like, "Oh, I haven't got that call." (laughs) I didn't say, but I was thinking, I was like- Yeah, no. ... "I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened unless my manager hasn't told me or something." And literally, it was like the next day, they called like, "Oh, we really wanna meet Jack again," and I think I met them... I can't really remember the meeting because this one was more just sort of like a kind of how it all goes if I do do it. And literally, like, the next day, they were like, "Cool. We want Jack to do it. Can you do it?" I was like, "Obviously." (laughs) Obviously, I can do it. I was so scared though because I'm actually, like, terrified of bugs. (laughs) Bugs. Right. Yeah. So I was so excited, and I was like, "This is it." Could you ... Like- No. ... you couldn't tell people for a while, right? No, I couldn't. You must be quite nervous. Obviously, I did. (laughs) Speaker 1: (laughs) But I was just like- Obviously. (laughs) Oh, God. I was, like, so scared. I was like, "How the hell has this happened?" But the one thing I will say, I didn't ... It's, uh, this is, like, bad. Obviously, I did when I knew I was doing it. But I never actually really watched the show before. Mm-hmm. Obviously, I completely knew what it was, but I didn't realize how big the show was. Mm-hmm. I didn't realize at that time it was arguably the biggest show, like, in the country. Huge. Yeah. Like, like, yeah, between like that, like, kind of Strictly and things. Yeah. Like, they were all, like, battling it out for number one. So, yeah, I just kind of prepared myself for it all. Like I said, I was, I was feeling great going into it. I was feeling, like, really good. How much notice did you get between knowing w- you were on the show- I think I actually knew for, like, a while. I must've known for, like, a couple of months. Right. I remember getting there, and people were like, "Oh, I found out," literally, like, couple of weeks ago. Really? But I was like ... I knew for, like, ages. Ex- like I said, I guess they knew they were getting a YouTuber on, like- Hmm. ... probably at the end of the season before. They were like, "Oh, next year we need a YouTuber," or something, so. You fly to Australia? Yeah. I'd done all my stuff. I was feeling good. Flew to Australia, and I was the first one to get there, so I was there for a week. Dibs. I had no phone. (laughs) And I was an idiot because when, like I said, I was in the jungle, people were telling me like, "Oh, do you want to just bring another phone and, like, hide it?" And I was like ... Obviously, I was too scared to do that. (laughs) So I was like, "Oh, no." And they did? "I actually need to do that." Yeah. Everyone did. I was- What? All the other guests had phones? They, they just, like, had another phone with them somewhere in their suitcase, so they were just, like, talking to their friends, I guess, whatever. Like, no, I didn't know who else was there at the time, but when I was in the camp- What, what? While they were in the jungle? No, no, no. Okay. Whilst they were, like, in the, like, kind of- Okay. ... is- the lockdown-y kind of thing before you were shut- Pre-jungle. ... in a hotel room for a week, and you- And you didn't have a phone? ... don't see anyone. Didn't have a phone. Oh, it was the boring time of my life, and you're, like, jet-lagged as well. But luckily, the lady who was looking after me, yeah, she just wa- ... I could not leave my room without her being next to me. But she was really nice. Like, we got along so well, so I was really happy with that. And every morning at breakfast, she was like, "Oh," like, you know, "another one's got here. Another one's got here." And she wouldn't tell me who it was, but she'd give me clues, and then I was like, "Oh." It, it was just annoying me. I was like, "I wonder how my social media's going." Again. (laughs) Because that's just- It wasn't- ... what I figured. It was, like, an everyday thing for me. I'd post everything, do these things. It was so weird not checking it. I was like, "Look, let's make a deal, a kind of deal with you." There was no deal in my heart- Yeah, yeah. ... or on my part, but, you know, "Will you do me a favor?" Get me a phone. "Just, do you have to ... Don't say anything. Can you just go on my Instagram and let me look at, like, what's been uploaded and let me just see-" Yeah, yeah. "... it's going well?" And I think at the time I was averaging, like, 40 to, like, 60,000 likes, so it was going, like, pretty well. And then she's like, "Yeah, but you can't look at the comments or anything 'cause they might be saying who's in there." I was like, "Deal," and I didn't actually look. But then I looked at my photos, and I was getting, like, 250,000 likes, and I was like, "What?" (laughs) And that's when I realized how big the show was. Like, there, at that moment I was like, "Oh, my God. Just from being announced-" Hmm. "... yeah. Like, it's just gone-" The world's into you. "... crazy." And I, I was thinking, you know, maybe they're making a bit of a ... Like, it's probably is causing debate. Mm-hmm. Like, "Oh, this YouTuber. Is he a celebrity? Is he not?" Mm-hmm. And I was, like, welcoming that 'cause I was like, "This gets more people, like, talking about me. It gets my name out there more." So that's when I was like, "Oh, my God." This is massive. "I need to win this." (laughs) Oh, really? (laughs) So then I was like, "I need to, I need to win this." What was your strategy? 'Cause I've always thought if I ever got into, like, a reality TV show, I'd be like, "How do I not be a prick?" Like ... (laughs) For me, it was just hon- like, to be honest- Just being yourself. ... at that point, I had, like, no anxiety, no stresses. I was not scared at all. I wasn't even, like, nervous. Like, nerves never hit me. That was always one of my strengths, I've found. So I was just, yeah, I was, like, confident. Not so much confident that I'm gonna win, but I was just so confident in that, you know, I know I can go in there and come across, like, fine. Give them stuff. I know, I know I won't go on there and be, like, a horrible person or whatever. That's- Mm-hmm. ... just not who I am, so yeah, I was confident. And went in there first couple of days of filming with everyone. Just felt, like, great. Like, so natural, I guess. I kind of knew what was going on a little bit 'cause we got partnered up straightaway, and I was obviously the youngest. I was the youngest person on there, but I was the youngest guy, and then Toff was the youngest girl, and then we got partnered. And it was like, the people at home voted who was together. So I just kind of saw- Ah. ... where that was, like, going. Sure. And it was like, "Cool. So they're trying to do that kind of story with it." So you went for it. (laughs) So I think, to be honest, I think she's, like, a very smart girl. Didn't ever play a character, but it was like, "Play the most entertaining version of yourself the whole time," and was just like, yeah, kind of giving the people what they want. And I knew she was doing the same as well. Mm-hmm. Like, she'd read into the situation, and I, I remember thinking, I was like, "Oh, it's gonna be ..." (laughs) This sounds really mean for the other people on there, but I was like, "I have, like, a feeling maybe it's gonna be between, like, me and her, or I think we'll both do, like, really well-" Mm-hmm. "... if we keep ... as we're going." 'Cause it was just, like, little things, like, you realize we were just maybe saying the most, like, kinda jokes between everyone, and, like, we were maybe the most, like, just- Interesting. ... having the most, like f- like, fun with it. A lot of people were quite stressed and stuff, but we were having, like, a lot of fun.Um, and then yeah, obviously, it took like a massive turn. I don't know what you're talking about. (laughs) Well, if you don't, that's fine, we can carry on. Maybe I won. Yeah. (laughs) You won, congratulations. Yeah. No one knows though. (laughs) No. Go on, so what happened next? Um, I mean, I don't think I'm allowed to get too into it in terms of like what happened- No, we know. It's just me and you. ... on set, but it is like in terms of- I won't tell anyone. (laughs) So I was there in the morning, was like super early. I mean, it must've been like 6:00 AM, something like that, five, 6:00 AM. And there's like a rule, like two people always need to be in the camp at one point. And they were calling the, you know, the voices of God. The person on the microphone (laughs) was like calling people to go and do something, like, "Oh, you need to go down there," this, that. I realized I was on my own, and I was like, "I swear this isn't allowed." Then I was like, "Oh, well, maybe, you know, we've been in here a few days now, they're like loosening up and whatever, you know, we're all adults here, I'm sure I'll be fine," type thing. And he was like, "Oh, Jack, can you come to like the medical hut?" I was like, "Oh, okay." And I had two things on my mind. First being, I'd like a tic the day before, like- Hmm. ... and so I was like, "Oh, maybe they're just checking in on that." Or, this is where it gets like really depressing, I was like, "Oh, here we go." 'Cause they always, in the show, kind of pull someone to the side, and they have like kind of like a secret mission-y type thing- Oh, yeah, yeah. ... they do in the show. There's always someone who has to do something without anyone else knowing. Is this that? Or maybe it's that. So I was like going there like really a- quite excited, intrigued. (laughs) And then I went in there and it was just like all the producers and stuff, and I was like, "This doesn't look very good." (laughs) I was like- Hmm. ... "What?" I was taken out with like no explanation whatsoever. I had no idea- You weren't given an explanation? I was not told for like four hours. I got taken out, and the hotel was like four hours away. And pretty much until I got my phone, which was at the hotel, which was that far away, I didn't know anything. They just said it was like, oh, something online. I was like, wow, that really- So they said s- Oh, that narrows it down. (laughs) Yeah. My, my whole life's online. They say something, something's online. Something online. So I'm just thinking like absolute, like worst case scenarios of what could like possibly happen to a young (laughs) guy on TV, 'cause I was thinking all kinds of things. Like it's weird, like you're sitting there thinking of things I know I've never done in my life, but I'm like, oh God, they've- Someone could've said something. Yeah. Someone said something or made something up, or I don't know. You're just thinking the worst. Hmm. And you're panicking, and then, I mean, it was like the weirdest, like experience. You get back your phone. Yeah. I get back to the hotel room finally, and I get my phone, and my phone's like... so crazy. And then, well, I think like the next day I realized, they'd actually like announced me being taken out before they took me out. So like my,

Jack Maynard 20:58 I mean, yeah, everyone knew why I'd left, but I didn't. So I was seeing these on my phone, I was like, "What the..." It was just like, everyone was just like, "Oh, you know, hope you're okay. Like, I can't believe this," and all that. And I'm like, "Oh my God." And I'm like, "I dunno what to do, I don't wanna look at it." I'm like kinda sitting there, my eyes closed (laughs) on my phone going- Yeah. Like, I don't know what to do. Got two calls I need to make here. Got a call from my brother, and then like, a thousand from my manager. So I call my manager, and it's like, my manager, lawyers, the CEO of my manager, everyone. There's like, everyone of any importance- Hmm. ... in my life is on that call. And yeah, I just find out, you know, this is something that's been going on for like nearly a week in the papers and stuff, of like, tweets and everything like this. And obviously I'm in there, I don't have a phone, so I have no control. I can't say anything. How are you feeling then? I was like crying. (laughs) Yeah. I was like, oh, I was like all over the place. I was m- I was just so frustrated. That's what it was. I was like so frustrated and like angry. Why? I don't know. I just felt this could've all s- Some... They were sitting on the, like they were sitting on this for a while, these tweets and stuff. I just n- know it, 'cause it was deleted long before I went on the show. Like a year before I even went on the show, they didn't exist anymore, 'cause they were awful. It was stupid. So I kind of got rid of them when I was kind of coming up on YouTube, it was like one of the first thing my management made me do. They're like, "Cool, let's go through everything and delete anything you've said that is just idiotic." And I was like, "Well, you should definitely, definitely do that." 'Cause I knew I'd had Twitter since I was like 15, 14 or something, so it didn't have to get to the point where I was taken out- Hmm. ... to then have to address it all. I w- I wish I could've before I even went on. Or after. Or, or, or just after, kind of like- Yeah. ... yeah, like stuck with it and kind of- Adds more drama to it, to pulling you out

Narrator 22:54 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 22:54 ... after the whole thing. Yeah, it just made it loo- made it look worse 'cause they said, "Oh, Jack wanted to leave and address it." And I do feel like I did need to address it as soon as possible, don't get me wrong, but I mean, yeah, I didn't say, "Yeah, I should, I should leave here and, and, uh, and address these things." So it was just frustrating and yeah, so I spoke to my management, we kind of went over everything, and like, "What happens now?" And he's like, "Do you want us to come to Australia?" "No." I was like, "I just wanna come home then." 'Cause I was like, although I knew I'd done like bad things, how it was all handled, I felt like I had like hatred at that point, at that moment in time anyway- Yeah. ... for the people that were involved, like in the show that were like near me. Like I said, I was so frustrated, so I was like, "I don't wanna be here. No way." Mm-hmm. "I wanna come home then. If this is, if I, if this is it and I'm, this is done, then I'm coming home. What is the point in me being here?" Like, yeah, might as well come home. So, all that was arranged, there was literally a flight in like three hours or something, so I just like legged it to the airport. But yeah, I d- again, I hadn't like looked at my phone, I hadn't like looked at anything. Hadn't like opened WhatsApp, Twitter, Instagram, like nothing. I still don't really know the extent of what's happened. And then I, yeah, I called my brother. He was like speechless as well. But he c- but again, like he'd kind of been, like I said, this had been going on for a week, so he's been on the phone to li-... my management and stuff for, like, you know, days and days and days, going through all of this kind of trying to help. I don't ... Like, I don't know really what they were asking him or how he could kind of help, but they were like, "You know, no one reach out to you, don't say anything, don't comment on anything, don't do any of these things." And he was, like, trying to help in whatever way he could.

Steven Bartlett 24:36 Did you worry that it might have an impact on him?

Jack Maynard 24:39 Yeah. That ... Wh- when I spoke to him, that was kind of one of my first thoughts, to be honest. I felt like I'd (laughs) just, like, fucked it for everyone. But like I said, at this point, I didn't really know, and then we were talking about it. He felt like, "You know, this is my time to shine in all of this. It could've been, like, life changing if I'd have, like, got..." Let's, let's say I went on, like, won. It could've been, yeah, life changing. It was, but (laughs) not-

Steven Bartlett 25:02 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 25:02 ... not in the right way. And then he was like, "Have you looked online or anything?" And I was like, "No. I don't want to." (laughs) I was, like, scared. And he was like, "Oh, and I think you should, like, have a look." And I was like, "Why?" He's like, "Look, just hang up. Have a look online and stuff. Go on Twitter." So I did. When I went online, on Twitter, to be honest, like, all I saw was, like, support for me 'cause it was a thing of everyone knew what I said was very stupid, very naive of me, like, really bad, but, you know, people also knew what I was gonna say. People have kind of been there themselves. People understood that, okay, yeah, he was, like, a kid at the time. I was literally, like, still in school when these things had happened. It was before I had any kind of, like, following. I didn't want, you know, the Jack of today to be, you know, known as the Jack of, like, when I was 15.

Steven Bartlett 25:55 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 25:55 I fully understand. And this, this is, like, one of the conversations I had with my mum. I, like, accept when I was, like, 15, 16, or whatever, I wasn't a very nice, like, kid. I was pretty, like, bad. I was, like, a, kind of a naughty kid, I guess.

Steven Bartlett 26:07 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 26:07 And so people, like, understood that, right? "You're an idiot, but at the same time, we feel kinda, like, sorry that this has come back to, like, bite me on the ass, you know, like, seven years later or something."

Steven Bartlett 26:21 In that moment, when you, you go online and you see everybody ... Like, the world is ... You know, it must feel like the world is ending to some degree.

Jack Maynard 26:26 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 26:27 What are your thoughts about your future in that moment, and, like-

Jack Maynard 26:30 Oh, I thought that was it. I was like, "My ... That, that's it." I was like, "My career is over." But I also wasn't thinking, "Oh, what am I gonna do?" But I was just like, "It's over. I don't care about what I'm gonna do now, but that ... I reckon that's it." But then also when I saw online, and, like, the amount of support, I was ... I mean, it was, like, ridiculous. It's like trending number one on, like, Twitter and all of these things. But it was just, like, huge, and the amount of celebrities that were, like, in my corner, or whatever you wanna say. It was, like, very overwhelming. The weirdest one I saw was, like, Katie Hopkins. (laughs) I was like ... She was like-

Steven Bartlett 27:04 Katie Hopkins? What the fuck?

Jack Maynard 27:05 She was like, "Oh, don't worry, Jack. You're an angel compared to me."

Steven Bartlett 27:07 What the fuck?

Jack Maynard 27:07 Because obviously she was on the show, (laughs) and like nothing ever. I was like, "Yeah, like, yeah." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 27:11 (laughs) Really? That's not the person you wanna go cry, like-

Jack Maynard 27:12 "I don't want ... I don't want anything to do with them, blah, blah."

Steven Bartlett 27:14 Look behind you, there's, like, Donald Trump and Katie Hopkins. Right? (laughs)

Jack Maynard 27:15 Then it was like ... Everyone was just very divided.

Steven Bartlett 27:18 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 27:19 I think it was a ... L- to sum it up. You know, I apologized loads of times on TV, on my YouTube channel, in, like, newspapers and everything.

Steven Bartlett 27:28 What's the silver lining?

Jack Maynard 27:31 Oh, my God. I like to think I probably actually won't go anything ... won't go through anything as bad as that ever again. Like, the toll it kind of took on me, like my mental health and everything. But that didn't kind of come until, like, a year after, because I think, like I said, although I was very upset and everything, I kind of brushed it all under the rug type thing, and just put on, like, a happy face. "Ah, do you know what? Whatever kind of time to get on with it." But for me it was like, I've definitely learned a lot from this. Like, I know now what is and, like, absolutely isn't, like, acceptable and how to, like, deal with those things and, like, move forward, and just how to face the horrendous situations like that. And like I said, hold my hand up and fully take, like, the blame obviously. But it was just like-

Steven Bartlett 28:21 Did you have PT- PTSD? I think I read that somewhere that you had that kind of-

Jack Maynard 28:23 Yeah. So it was like ... (laughs) Um, so-

Steven Bartlett 28:27 I've gone full gung ho on Huel. Um, and from having, you know, a little bit of an eye at the data, it seems that I'm, I'm not the only one. In times when we know that we're gonna get our lives back, and we're potentially gonna be having a great British summer rebound, there's a lot of people like me right now that are piling into Huel. Um, I'm doing a few things. I'm having Huel. Um, I have at least two or three Huels a day of the ready-to-drink berry flavor, but I'm also doing meal prep. And so now my diet is Huel, which is super convenient, and it makes sure that I'm hitting a lot of the things in terms of, like, vitamins and minerals that I'm not getting from my other food and my meals. And for me, that is the perfect combination.

Steven Bartlett 29:07 Did you have PT-

Jack Maynard 29:08 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 29:08 ... PTSD? I think I read that somewhere that you had that kind of-

Jack Maynard 29:09 Yeah. So it was like ... (laughs) Um, so like I said, I wasn't facing it for ages, and then, like a year later, or like 18 months later, yeah, just started feeling, like, awful, like, really anxious, like, all the time, and, like, just super, like, depressed. But at the time, I didn't know it was that. I just felt really weird. I was like, "What the hell is wrong with me?" Couldn't even, like, go for, like, dinner with my friends without, like, wanting to, like, desperately leave and, like, feeling, like, so uncomfortable. Like, I c- like, my safe place was, like, at my home. I just wanted to be at home. Became, like, a bit of an introvert 'cause I didn't wanna do anything. It massively affected my work in terms of I just couldn't face going to any kind of, like, meetings or anything, doing any kind of work. It would, like ... For me to do that, I'd literally have to, like ... Or I was, like, going through hell just to do, like, just to go to, like, a meeting or something. I had no idea what it was. And I was very quiet about it. I never, like, spoke to anyone, which was obviously making it worse. And then-

Steven Bartlett 30:12 How did it feel though, in terms of ... It was, like, it felt like a lack of motivation, or it felt like-

Jack Maynard 30:15 Yeah. It was just like I didn't want to do anything. I didn't wanna have to face doing those things. I, I ... Basically now, looking back on it, I had, like, a complete loss of confidence. I kind of felt like, oh, I wasn't-... good enough to do any of these things. I was like a shell of, like, my former self. Like I said before, I had, like, nothing. I was so excited to do that show. I was kind of going in there to win it and everything. Whereas now, at that point, if they asked me, oh, my God. Even if I hadn't been on it, type thing, before by myself, but at the same ... If they asked me, I'd have probably had to be like, "I don't think I can do it." Because I don't think I had, had it in me to kind of push through. And then, yeah, eventually my friends kind of clocked on like, "Okay, something's really wrong." And I think they kind of knew what it was. My brother's been through it before, like really badly before me. And it was, like, him and a few others. And they just went like, yeah, like, ooh. Sat me down, and yeah, I just kind of like, it's like opened up to everyone.

Steven Bartlett 31:06 What did they notice?

Jack Maynard 31:07 I was just, like, not myself. Like I said, I was ... Like, one of the m- one of the main ones I remember was at my friend Josh's birthday, and I had this thing of like, because I knew I would always want to, like, not go and leave these, like, events or dinners or whatever. I'd go early, usually like 20 minutes early so I could kind of get there, so I could sit at the table (laughs) and just like ca- calm down, type thing. It was, it was essentially like, uh, I was having like an anxiety attack pretty much, like w- once I got there when I was on the way. So I'd get there and I'd kind of get past it, and then, like, get on with my night, type thing, and hopefully feel a bit better. But most of the time I'd get there and I'd leave before, and I'd just text them some weird excuse. "Oh, I've got to do this. Oh, this has come up, sorry. I've got to go home." Or I'd pretend like I never went. I'd be like, "Oh yeah, no. I'm just not feeling great, not gonna come." So they were just like, "What the hell is going on?" Like-

Steven Bartlett 32:01 And Jack, were you jungle?

Jack Maynard 32:02 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 32:03 Would not-

Jack Maynard 32:03 Oh, no. Like, no way. I was like the life of the party in a way (laughs) kind of thing. I was up for doing everything and anything. You could like ... Couldn't stop me, type thing.

Steven Bartlett 32:12 Mm-hmm. So take me back to the intervention. You said your friends had like-

Jack Maynard 32:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 32:15 ... messaged you and sat you down. Your brother had messaged you.

Jack Maynard 32:17 Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, kind of explained it, uh, all of them again. I still kept it, like, pretty close friends and my manager, because she needed to understand. I didn't want to have to keep lying, basically. I don't know. She- I think 'cause she's been in the industry, I think she probably knew-

Steven Bartlett 32:34 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 32:34 ... what it was as well. It's very common. And, and this is what I realized when I spoke to my friends, 'cause they were just like, basically, yeah, like, you know, "It's very, like, normal. Everyone, like, has it." Because at the time, as I said, I knew my brother had it before.

Steven Bartlett 32:48 What's it?

Jack Maynard 32:49 Just like anxiety, like depression, like everything. But I didn't ... Yeah, I just didn't wanna accept those things.

Steven Bartlett 32:58 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 32:58 And I didn't understand. I didn't, I hadn't really done any research. I didn't really understand. And when I spoke to my friends, I then, yeah, understood what it was. And although everyone's is very different from different things, and, and it's caused by different things, like different triggers or whatever, it was also like very much the same. People deal with it in different ways, of course, but it is, it's like the same, like, feeling-

Steven Bartlett 33:20 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 33:20 ... and, like, overwhelming feeling and stuff. So when they kind of explained that, you know, they all had it, and ... My brother was, like, really good with it 'cause as I said, he, he'd had that anxiety, like, really bad. Had, but he still, like, he still does. And I still do. I don't, you don't, it doesn't just disappear. But you learn to, to deal with it. And yeah, just having that conversation, as like cliché as it sounds, just talking to people about it made me feel so much better. Like, unexplainably better. So, uh ...

Steven Bartlett 33:49 And then SAS?

Jack Maynard 33:49 Yeah. And then there was just, like, kind of a gap between of, like, nothing. Just kind of same old. Probably doing a bit more work, but at the same time, still wasn't feeling great. But I think it had kind of, like, calmed down a bit, and I'd figured out little ways to deal with it.

Jack Maynard 34:05 And then, yeah, SAS-

Steven Bartlett 34:08 So tell me about that.

Jack Maynard 34:08 ... like wanted me. That was like a-

Steven Bartlett 34:10 Which channel's that? It's-

Jack Maynard 34:11 Uh, Channel 4.

Steven Bartlett 34:12 Channel 4 call you, and they say-

Jack Maynard 34:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:13 ... "Jack-"

Jack Maynard 34:13 They want Jack to do-

Steven Bartlett 34:15 "... you're up."

Jack Maynard 34:15 ... SAS. I hadn't done any TV since ...

Steven Bartlett 34:18 When you find out, how do you feel?

Jack Maynard 34:20 I was, like, terrified. But I think I would've anyway because, like, SAS is a ... It's crazy.

Steven Bartlett 34:28 (laughs) Yeah.

Jack Maynard 34:28 It's something that is like the craziest show.

Steven Bartlett 34:30 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 34:30 I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd probably say it's the hardest show there is.

Steven Bartlett 34:35 Well, (laughs) yeah. It should be as well.

Jack Maynard 34:37 Yeah. It is the hardest show there is to do, so I was just ... I remember thinking like, "Why do I always get these, like, really hard shows?"

Steven Bartlett 34:41 (laughs)

Jack Maynard 34:41 "Why can't I just ... Go on, like, Celeb Juice or something like that?" (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 34:44 (laughs)

Jack Maynard 34:45 "It's no way I've gotta sit there for the evening." But I was like, "Okay, what the hell am I gonna do here?" Because I just know in the back of my head, I'm th- I'm saying yes to all these things. I'm just like, "Do you want me to do it?" I'm like, "Yes. Why not?" And you know, they explained it to me as, you know, they were pretty black and white about it. Like, "This wants this to be, like, his big TV comeback," and all of this. And I knew that was gonna be, um, a massive part of my storyline. I was like, "Oh, God." 'Cause I know I'm gonna say yes to do this, and I'm g- I'm gonna wanna not do it. I don't wanna do it, but you can't turn down something like this. You can't turn down a show that big. So obviously I've said yes, and I'm going through with it. And then, yeah, it kinda gets to the point where, like, my anxiety and everything, and like my panic is like, I mean, the worst it's ever been. I didn't even wanna leave my house. And just, yeah, straight away, my manager's just like, "I think it's time to see a therapist."

Steven Bartlett 35:46 Where was this in terms of the run up to the show?

Jack Maynard 35:48 Um-

Steven Bartlett 35:49 Where it got the worst it's ever been.

Jack Maynard 35:50 I'd say, like, two months before.

Steven Bartlett 35:53 The show started filming?

Jack Maynard 35:53 Yeah. Filmed in, like, November.

Steven Bartlett 35:55 Okay.

Jack Maynard 35:56 It was like, yeah, probably like September-ish-

Steven Bartlett 35:58 Okay.

Jack Maynard 35:58 ... that it was, like, so bad. So I was like, "Yeah, I think you're right. I probab- (laughs) I probably should." I'd never been to a therapist before, so I was anxious about that in itself, which was really weird. Like, speaking to someone and feeling like you wanna, like ... (laughs) Feeling like you're gonna want, you want to, like, die in this room 'cause it's just so ... Yeah. Like you don't, I don't even know-

Steven Bartlett 36:17 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 36:17 ... like what I was thinking at the time, to be honest with you. But it was just horrible. So yeah, seeing a therapist like three, four times a week, doing all this just trying to, like-... figure it out before on the show, and then she's just like, "Yeah. It sounds like you've got, like, PTSD basically." And I was like, "What?" (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 36:36 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 36:36 I was like... When I hear that, I just think of, like, the army.

Steven Bartlett 36:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack Maynard 36:39 Pretty much, I was like-

Steven Bartlett 36:41 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 36:41 I think that's, like, quite dramatic. I was like, I don't even feel, like, qualified to be labeled as something like that because (laughs) I was like, I'm not getting, like, shot at somewhere. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 36:51 Yeah, yeah.

Jack Maynard 36:52 Like, how? And she just, yeah, like, explained it to me, and one of my, like, worst things was basically it made me feel, like, physically ill. Like, I always felt like I wanted to leave because it made me feel like I was gonna, like, throw up or something, like, there and then. I felt like I was, like, holding it in. But it was like, yeah, really, really bad. Like ............................ Wrote, you can't imagine, like, how bad it was. And then the best thing that she did was she gave me this book. It was called The Idiot Brain, and it explains how your body reacts to the feeling of, like, anxiety and, like, depression, and, like, you know, the whole fight or flight type thing. And it basically just completely broke it down as to why I feel everything I do whilst it's happening, and that, like, again, like I said, when I spoke to my friends, it made me feel like, ugh. Just that one thing-

Steven Bartlett 37:39 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 37:39 ... was, like, the biggest weight, and that was... It was the same kind of thing. I was like, now I understand why these things are happening, and it's not, like...

Steven Bartlett 37:46 What, what was the key thing you took from that book in terms of just, like, a basic principle of-

Jack Maynard 37:49 It was honestly the s- like, the science behind it.

Steven Bartlett 37:53 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 37:53 It, it explained, like, the signals that your brain's sending out to, like, your stomach and stuff because it's, like, it's a... You're in a sense of panic.

Steven Bartlett 38:01 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 38:01 It's like imagine you walk across the street, and you're about to get hit by a car, and you had, like, loads of adrenaline type thing after, just like that. So it's a massive sense of panic, and your body wants to, like, get out of a something, get away from a situation. They, they use examples from, like, the caveman times because it's like your body is, like, sensing danger, but there is none. There's kind of a whole problem with it. Like, nothing's really happening. You're just scared of, like, nothing. Like, you know, usually you do kind of get through it, and you're-

Steven Bartlett 38:28 It's like-

Jack Maynard 38:29 ... kind of fine, but it's like-

Steven Bartlett 38:29 ... past memories relating it to trauma situations, right?

Jack Maynard 38:31 Yeah, so it was just like a, yeah, pretty much just like a... That's why it was, like, a PTSD thing for me because I felt in a similar situation as when, like, the whole I'm A Celeb thing happened really. Like I said, at the time, I didn't even know if it was that, but when she kind of broke it down to me, when do you think it all started, and it just made so much sense for it to be because of that. Like, it was all around work and, like, certain situations that were all similar to, to then because I'd kind of go to, you know, say, an event, and I just... Yeah, you'd feel like I'm known as the kid who got kicked off-

Steven Bartlett 39:04 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 39:04 ... I Miss Celeb, and anywhere I'd go that, that would always, you know... People would always be kind of talking about it. I honestly, before then, I probably would not have been able to do this.

Steven Bartlett 39:13 Yeah. (laughs)

Jack Maynard 39:13 And, like, there's a high chance I'd have, like, canceled-

Steven Bartlett 39:16 Last minute.

Jack Maynard 39:16 ... like, last minute-

Steven Bartlett 39:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack Maynard 39:17 ... because I'd be like, "Oh, I can do it. I can do it. I can do it." And then it would come to the time, and I'd be like, "No way." I'd be, "I can't even, like, get in the car and-

Steven Bartlett 39:23 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 39:23 ... and drive here." But it was just, yeah, and it would explain why, yeah, your body is literally feeling that way, and it just... Because it was like, oh, it can make you feel incredibly nauseous and stuff because your body is, like, scared and sensing danger and thinks you need to escape a situation. So it, like, your bod- like, the last thing your body's worried about is, like, digesting something.

Steven Bartlett 39:43 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 39:43 So I always had this thing of is I was like I never wanted to eat when I was anxious.

Steven Bartlett 39:46 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 39:46 Like-

Steven Bartlett 39:47 Because you're in flight.

Jack Maynard 39:47 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:48 You're in fight or flight.

Jack Maynard 39:48 I would not be thinking about eating. I wouldn't even get hungry though.

Steven Bartlett 39:51 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 39:52 But I would just not eat anything, like, the whole day. And I had lost, like, loads of weight from it as well.

Steven Bartlett 39:57 One of the most important quotes I'd, uh, I, I read in the book Lost Connections was, um, as a society, we used to think that, like, mental health disorders like PTSD and anxiety-

Jack Maynard 40:06 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:06 ... and depression were a consequence of, like, something broken in you.

Jack Maynard 40:10 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:10 But in fact, everything you've described goes back 10,000 years to, like-

Jack Maynard 40:14 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:14 ... Savannah in Africa are lions running at me.

Jack Maynard 40:16 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:16 I'm like, "I need my body to get ready for me to-

Jack Maynard 40:18 Yeah, exactly.

Steven Bartlett 40:18 ... leg it."

Jack Maynard 40:18 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:19 And so there's, uh, there's nothing... The human body is working perfectly fine. In fact, the most more important question is, like, what's happened to you?

Jack Maynard 40:26 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 40:26 And, like-

Jack Maynard 40:27 Of course, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:27 And that's, and that's where, that's where my perspective on, on mental health disorders shifted because I didn't believe that, um... When I looked at the data and there's this huge rise in mental health disorders-

Jack Maynard 40:38 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:38 ... and I know that, like, human beings aren't evolving anymore. We're not changing anymore.

Jack Maynard 40:42 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:43 So you think, okay, if there's a rise in the, the data, what has changed to cause that? And then you think, okay, well, the only thing that's really fundamentally changed is the world we live in.

Jack Maynard 40:50 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 40:51 So you start looking at the world we live in, and you say, "How, how has that changed?" You say, "Well, you know, uh, t- 15 years ago, the average American would say they had three people they could turn to in a time of crisis."

Jack Maynard 41:01 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:01 They now say they have zero. We're now living in these white walls between- alone, tapping screens.

Jack Maynard 41:06 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 41:06 We're not speaking to friends. And all of these factors which are conducive with, like, positive mental health-

Jack Maynard 41:10 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:10 ... have now been slowly torn away. I mean, the lockdown is a great example of, like-

Jack Maynard 41:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:13 ... extreme... And then there was this study which I talk about in my book where if you get an animal and you put it in a cage and you take away, um, any, uh, companionship. You take away all other animals of its type-

Jack Maynard 41:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 41:25 ... and you take away, uh, the ability for it to exercise, and you take away anything that might give it stimulation, and then you give it the choice of drinking heroin water or normal water, they all become drug addicts.

Jack Maynard 41:37 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:37 And, uh, if you, if you reintroduce, like, a, a running wheel and another rat for it to be with-

Jack Maynard 41:42 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:42 ... it doesn't, it doesn't become a drug addict. It doesn't choose the heroin water.

Jack Maynard 41:45 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:45 And so what you're describing is, like, the same as all of the guests that have sat here with me is there's, there's this key moment which has caused trauma.

Jack Maynard 41:51 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:51 And that's, um... And I think that's really empowering p- for people to know that-

Jack Maynard 41:55 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:55 ... you know, it's not... It's something that's happened, right? And you-

Jack Maynard 41:59 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 41:59 ... can address it from that perspective as opposed to just throwing drugs at it-

Jack Maynard 42:01 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:02 ... thinking that something's broken.

Jack Maynard 42:03 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:03 But tell me about the therapy process-

Jack Maynard 42:05 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 42:05 ... because I've not had therapy before, but I've always, I've always been intrigued by i- at my company, we, we had a therapist for all of our team members.

Jack Maynard 42:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:13 Um, and I would definitely have therapy. I think I probably should. But w- what, how was that process, and did it help?

Jack Maynard 42:19 Um, it was like s- it was strange. It made, it did make me feel a lot better. Like I said, for me, I think this is just who I am. I think some people love talking about things and just getting it off their chest, and it helps them that way. For me, it was just the understanding. Once I understood it-And then, like I said, I figured out ways to kind of deal with it as well. I don't think it ever goes away, but you just figure out ways to, to deal with it. I think if I'd got an Uber here, I'd have probably actually been, like, more nervous. I don't think I, I wouldn't have, like, canceled, but I'm not at that level. But I would've still probably been a bit more like- How come? ... kind of, I don't know. I think 'cause you're not doing it. I, for me, uh, I love being, like, distracted. Okay. So, I'd always sort of like... Like, TikTok for instance is, like, the perfect app for that, I always found. Mm-hmm. Because it was like, it's really quick and it's, like, funny and, like, it would always, like, kind of put... It was always just really funny, kind of put me in a good mood- Yeah. ... and it's, like, really quick. So, if I was in an Uber, I'd try and do something like that or watch some, like, YouTube videos and just keep my mind off kind of what I'm gonna do. And chat before, wouldn't, didn't have that position? Oh, like, yeah. No way. I'd have been... Honestly, when my brother would, like, talk about, like, his anxieties and, like, when he'd feel weird or wouldn't wanna come do anything, I'd, like, be like, "What are you talking about?" Like, it was- Did you think- ... it was literally like a, "Just get over it. Come on. You'll be fine." That was, like, the classic thing. Like, "Oh, come on. You'll be fine." Like, what could possibly go wrong? But in his mind, he's, like, listing all the things that can go wrong. It's just you think of the worst case scenario pretty much. So, um, yeah. Once I kind of understood it a lot more and had my reasons, uh, like, which helped me kind of get over it a little bit, I then did kind of stop seeing her. This was all very close to, like- The show? ... the show. But I kind of stopped once the show started, for instance. Um, and I haven't been back since because I think, like, I will happily say that, like, doing SAS, like, saved me somehow. It gave me, like, a new lease of life. Um, not, like I said, not saying it's gone away by any means, but I'd just a thing there of thinking, I mean, if I can do this, and this being at, like, six o'clock in the morning, jumping out of a helicopter backwards into literally, like, freezing cold water- Mm-hmm. ... in the middle of winter in Scotland- Okay. ... I can definitely go and do a podcast or, or- Sure. ... something like that. And that's kind of, like, what I, like, lived by. And I still think of it sometimes. I'm like, "Oh, my God, Jack. Come on," when I was, like, at my... And at that point, I was honestly at my absolute, like, worst. Mm-hmm. Like,

Jack Maynard 44:53 the night before, so I got there, I got to Scotland. And, like, the morning of, I tried to, like, pull out. They took my... Again, when we got there, they took our phones off because we basically, like, you know, just can't... We see everyone who's on the show. (laughs) So, we can't text people, "Oh, guess who's in the show," and then they, like, leak the stories or whatever. You're like, "I need my phone." It doesn't go out until May, but I was like, "I kind of need, like-" "I can quit." (laughs) Yeah. "I need..." (laughs) Like, "I need my phone so I can call my manager and tell her I'm not doing it." (laughs) Like, that's literally what it was. And the best thing that's happened, th- that they took my phone. Other wise, I would've called out. I guarantee it. But, um, they had, like, therapists on the show that I would, like, I'd spoken to quite a bit before, and I was very open with them, and they kind of knew... I mean, everyone going on there definitely had their struggles, and they had their, their battles. And I'm not saying mine's worse than, than anyone's, but I was definitely, like, very, like, vocal about mine and was... Not saying it's worse than anyone else's, but I was like, "This is the worst it's ever been for me." Mm-hmm. Like, "This is the worst I've ever been, so prepare, (laughs) prepare yourselves- (laughs) ... for, for me to be, like, a nightmare." And yeah, like I said, I did not... I, I... People say like, "Oh, I didn't get a second of sleep the night before." I literally didn't. I just sat there, like, staring at the TV- Really? ... like, freaking, freaking out. And I was just like, "What the hell am I gonna do?" And I knew we had to leave at, like, 9:00. They, like, knocked on my door. They were like, "Oh, Jack." They're like, "Are you ready?" I was not ready. (laughs) Okay. Was trying to leave already. I was like, at least 10 times. Like, I felt like crying. I was, like, so emotional. I was, like, all over the place. It was like really. I'd never been, like, so bad. It was really weird. I felt, like, very, like, uncontrollable. And I was like, "Can I use your phone? I think I need to speak to the, like, therapist guy." I was on the phone to him for around two hours. I del- I pushed back the whole first day of filming (laughs) - Really? ... so much. But they were, like, like, amazing. They were honestly, like, so good because look, realistically, I think they knew I wanted to do it. I probably was gonna do it, but I was having a serious moment. They also knew that my mental health was in, like, a really bad place at the time. They were amazingly understanding and kind of patient with me. And, um, yeah, there was this kind of one, one woman there who was like, maybe the exec or, like, a producer, maybe the exec producer, but she was, like, my go-to, my go-to girl. And she made me do it because like I said, I spoke to the therapist for ages, and I was still a bit like, "Oh, God." She gave me that very good thing of like, you know, one step at a time. It's like, "Get ready, go downstairs, see how you feel. Next step, you know, you're ready, why don't you just get in the car and get to the location and see how you feel?" And, like, and it was like, that was like, again, they were like words of wisdom to me at that point. (laughs) So, I was like, "I'm not gonna be able to do it," 'cause I'm just thinking to the end of the show. Of course. I'm like, "How the hell am I gonna do seven days?" Like a mountain. Like, no way. Yeah. So, he was like, you know, it was like one step at a time. Breaking it down. Like, break it down and that helped me so much. And then yeah, I was just kind of with her and... And it's such good advice, I think- Yeah. ... for anybody that's listening that... Yeah, I mean, pretty much in all facets of life- Mm-hmm. ... whether you're trying to achieve something great or you're trying to overcome fear- Yeah. ... breaking it down to the, into smaller, manageable pieces makes it- Absolutely. Yeah. It was, like, a game changer for me. How did they say that? Like, those simple- Yeah, simple words. ... those simple words. Just, but it just helps you think in a different way. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. I was just kind of talking to them, talking to her, and I definitely, like I said, like, calmed down. I was just like, "Hey, do you know what? Yeah. Obviously, do it, Jack." And I did want to do it. I was like, "These things just, this show's crazy. I wanna give it a go." Like, you know- Mm-hmm. ... that piece of me is still in me like, "Oh, I wish I..." It was more like, "Oh, I wish I still had it in me to, to kind of do that." But I was like, "Right. Let's go," and, and yeah, just kind of got on with it. Had, like, very highs and lows in there.Every time we finished a task, I'd feel literally, like, on top of the world. Like everyone in there, you know-

Steven Bartlett 48:43 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 48:43 ... you just accomplished something I never thought I would be able to do, especially, like, with how I was feeling. Then when we're kind of going to a task, that's when I'd have the thing of, "Oh, I'm gonna... I wanna pull out. I wanna, like, leave." And that... In the show, you... That's the kind of point you pull out when you've kind of reached your, you know, your limit. And for me, definitely for me, a bigger part... Although physically, I mean, it was just hell. Like, it was hell.

Steven Bartlett 49:10 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 49:11 I got, like, so hurt doing it, (laughs) like, everywhere.

Steven Bartlett 49:13 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 49:13 But for me, it was definitely a way bigger mental battle, and I think probably everyone in there would say the same. Because it's... You are thinking, "I don't need to do this." (laughs) It doesn't make any-

Steven Bartlett 49:24 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jack Maynard 49:25 If I get to the end or not doesn't actually really make a difference to me. I really hit my limit about, God, was I four days in? I think it was, like, a seven-day thing. It was, like, the fourth day. Mentally, I was, like, drained, but also I was, like, so physically hurt, and I had, like, one injury that was, like, really annoying me. But... And I remember thinking, "Yeah, cool. I'm gonna get to tomorrow and see how I feel," if it, like, still really hurts. As in I was, like, at a point where I couldn't, like, run.

Steven Bartlett 49:51 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 49:51 It was more like a fast limp. Like, "Oh."

Steven Bartlett 49:54 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 49:55 And we got, like, halfway through that day, and we just played a game called Murderball, which you can imagine is really fun-

Steven Bartlett 50:00 Yeah. (laughs)

Jack Maynard 50:00 ... which involves being, like, rugby tackled by Tony Bellew-

Steven Bartlett 50:03 Nice.

Jack Maynard 50:03 ... and stuff like that. So-

Steven Bartlett 50:05 Oof.

Jack Maynard 50:06 After that, I was like, "I'm done." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 50:08 (laughs) Yeah.

Jack Maynard 50:09 But the thing that, like, made me, like, a lot happy about it, one, I got further than I ever thought... Especially the days before it, further than I ever thought I'd go. Like, I never thought in a million years of- when I feel like that I could be able to achieve those kind of things. And it really showed me, like, you know, if you just commit, it's gonna make me feel so much better-

Steven Bartlett 50:26 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 50:26 ... like, afterwards. Like, if I stick through and just persevere. And then at the same time, I was like, "Well, I've left after, like, completing something." So it was kind of like a... It was like a good sign off for me. I didn't get something and be like, "Uh, no, thanks-"

Steven Bartlett 50:39 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 50:39 "... I'm gonna go." So, like, I kind of... I was like, "Look, I'm just gonna do this one, tick this off, and then, yeah, it's probably time to go," because I could l- feel like I was gonna, like, die now. (laughs) Like, everything's in so much pain.

Steven Bartlett 50:50 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 50:51 And I was just, like, yeah, I mean, beyond exhausted, so...

Steven Bartlett 50:54 And you could be proud of yourself at that point, right? Is what you mean.

Jack Maynard 50:55 Oh, honestly, like, I was so happy with how far I got. It was like a, you know, kinda had to be there moment when you're going through all that to understand how hard it is to do that for that long. But, like, two people get to the end. Two people got to the end of the show. So I was like... I think, yeah, I was so happy with how far I got, and that really made me-

Steven Bartlett 51:14 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 51:14 ... like, feel, like, just so much better. And it kinda showed me, like, you know, just physical exercise, everything like that, is so good for your, like, mental health and that. So I carried on running after that and, like, training really hard. Because in the build-up, I was training, like, twice a day for, like, two months.

Steven Bartlett 51:29 Oh, wow. Quick one. Starting from the minute the lockdown is lifted, we're gonna start bringing in some of our subscribers to watch how this podcast is produced behind the scenes. It means you get to meet the guests, meet myself, and see how we put all of this together. If you want that to be you, all you've got to do, hit the subscribe

Steven Bartlett 51:44 button. Where are you at now in your life in terms of career, in terms of your mental health, in terms of your personal situations?

Jack Maynard 51:50 Yeah, like, mental health, I feel pretty good. Like, right now, I definitely have my days... Like, about a month ago, I had, like, a weird week where I was, like, trying to help a friend who was going through it, and they... But they... Well, who had just finally started talking about it and didn't know what was going on. And I was just explaining how it was with me, and it was like... That was the first time I spoke about it in, like, quite a while, so it just kind of made me... It just brings it all to... It just, yeah, brings it to the surface. So, it made me feel a bit, like, funny-

Steven Bartlett 52:18 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 52:18 ... for a few days. But, like, to be honest with you, I think, like I said, a lot of my problems were when I was going to things and trying-

Steven Bartlett 52:25 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 52:25 ... to do something where I felt really, like, uncomfortable, kinda out of your comfort zone, whereas this kind of a lockdown, you just have to be at home a lot. So, I do definitely feel, like, comfortable, and I think it's been quite good for my mental health. And now, when I have the days where I go out and I've got, like, you know, a day of, like, work or something, I've got to go and do loads of things, I'm really happy to kind of be out-

Steven Bartlett 52:44 Sure.

Jack Maynard 52:44 ... and stuff. So, it's kind of... Like, yeah, I think it's, again-

Steven Bartlett 52:46 Were you nervous about coming here?

Jack Maynard 52:48 ... not.

Steven Bartlett 52:48 You kind of alluded to that.

Jack Maynard 52:49 No, I wasn't. Do you know what? I was nervous that I was gonna get nervous about coming here.

Steven Bartlett 52:52 (laughs) Oh.

Jack Maynard 52:53 So when it came to it, I was like, "Oh, I don't want to get to the day and be like-"

Steven Bartlett 52:56 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 52:57 "... Ah, I don't... I, yeah, I'm, I feel a bit, like, weird."

Steven Bartlett 53:00 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 53:00 And in fact, yeah. I feel, like, honestly, completely fine. And like I said, I'd have... You probably heard (laughs) -

Steven Bartlett 53:05 No, yeah, would have worried. ... if I didn't, I didn't feel great (laughs) .

Jack Maynard 53:07 You well, not.

Steven Bartlett 53:07 Yeah

Steven Bartlett 53:08 (laughs) . So you... I hear, talking about lockdown, I heard you-

Jack Maynard 53:11 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:11 ... um, you'd gotten a little bit of relationship over lockdown, which is, um-

Jack Maynard 53:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:15 ... seems-

Jack Maynard 53:16 A lot of a relationship.

Steven Bartlett 53:17 Yeah. We were talking about-

Jack Maynard 53:17 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:18 ... this before we started recording.

Jack Maynard 53:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:19 You've been with your girlfriend now eight months. How is that going? It's never easy to-

Jack Maynard 53:22 It's going incredibly well.

Steven Bartlett 53:23 ... to have a lockdown relationship, but...

Jack Maynard 53:25 Yeah, it's definitely not, like, easy having a lockdown relationship, but we also don't know any- anything else 'cause we met, like, the beginning of last year. Well, 'cause we were neighbors basically.

Steven Bartlett 53:37 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 53:37 We were, like, our apartments, doors opposite each other. And I moved in, like, the first week of March last year, so that's kind of, like, how we met. And she had a dog, so there was lots of dog walk dates basically (laughs) .

Steven Bartlett 53:51 An excuse.

Jack Maynard 53:52 Yeah (laughs) .

Steven Bartlett 53:53 Was it, was it difficult dating when you were, um, really in your stride with YouTube and you had, like... I imagine people were stopping you a lot-

Jack Maynard 54:02 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 54:02 ... and stuff like that, and when you had the, you know, the stuff on TV.

Jack Maynard 54:05 Yeah, I didn't really date then, to be honest with you because I had, like... There was, like, two things. One, I had in my head of, like, you know, I'm just so, like, focused on what I'm doing right now, and I, I didn't purposely not... But I w- I didn't put much effort into... You know, it wasn't really one of my priorities whatsoever, and I was just having... You know, I was enjoying... I was, like, just living life. I was having so much fun.

Steven Bartlett 54:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack Maynard 54:27 And, like, all of my friends were single as well, so it just-

Steven Bartlett 54:29 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 54:29 ... I don't know. It just didn't happen whatsoever. There was no need for me to do that. But also, my brother got a girlfriend in his prime of, like, his, his career.

Steven Bartlett 54:38 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 54:38 And I think he'd, you know, be the first to say that it... And I'm not saying this is for everyone at all, but my experience is that, like, kind of-... held him back, not in terms of she held him back, but, you know, just having a girlfriend, you have different priorities and different focuses and stuff. They're focusing on their life. Yeah, so I just, like, didn't have any real intentions, but-

Steven Bartlett 54:56 What- what's been the upside of having a partner?

Jack Maynard 54:59 Um-

Steven Bartlett 55:00 'Cause I'm a single guy, so I'm, like, asking. I want you to pitch it to me. What's the, uh-

Jack Maynard 55:03 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 55:03 People are gonna think- people think I'm just-

Jack Maynard 55:05 Everything.

Steven Bartlett 55:05 ... like, anti-

Jack Maynard 55:05 You're just so much happier, I feel.

Steven Bartlett 55:07 Just hear-

Jack Maynard 55:07 I know I sound so, like-

Steven Bartlett 55:08 (laughs)

Jack Maynard 55:08 ... cringey, but I just feel, like, so much happier. I look at the days of when, you know, being single and, like, wanting to, like, go out and do all these things and, like-

Steven Bartlett 55:19 Everything.

Jack Maynard 55:19 ... or, like, dating and stuff. And, like, I look at it now, like, "Oh my God. It's so much, like, effort in a way." Whereas now it's so, like, just fun and, like, relaxing. It's very nice to feel-

Steven Bartlett 55:28 For everyone listening to this but that can't see him, he's saying all of this but he's shaking his head at the same time. (laughs)

Jack Maynard 55:32 It's amazing. Definitely do it. (laughs) But it's just, like, amazing being, you know, so comfortable with someone. I think for me especially, that was, like, a massive thing because I'd been so uncomfortable in so many situations with, like, where I was at, to then meet someone and, and be in those positions where normally I would be uncomfortable. Sounds kind of, like, cringey-

Steven Bartlett 55:53 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 55:53 ... but having her there makes me feel, like, so much better sh- without her even knowing it.

Steven Bartlett 55:57 Yeah.

Jack Maynard 55:57 But just being with someone and, and whatever makes you feel, you know, so good. And I've never had, I've never, I've literally never been in a relationship really, so this is kinda, like, my first relationship, which I don't know if she likes or not really. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 56:11 You don't know if she likes it? (laughs)

Jack Maynard 56:12 Yeah. No, as in, like, it's the fact that it's my first relationship, sometimes she's like, "You know, I wish you'd maybe had a girlfriend before, so you'd know this, all that, and the other."

Steven Bartlett 56:19 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 56:19 But I think she also likes the fact that she's my first, and...

Steven Bartlett 56:23 Why wouldn't someone want to be you?

Jack Maynard 56:27 Um, I think the main one I'd probably say is there's, like, a lot of pressure, like, but I'm the one putting that pressure on myself. No one's putting pressure on me, but it's just a lot of, like, self-pressure. Like, I'm in control of, like, everything. I'm, like you said, it's the diary of, like, CEO. I'm, like, my own boss. I'm in control of everything I do. I'm in control of all my finances, like, what comes in, like, what goes out. It's all just kind of on me. So if I stop, you know, it all stops. If I work my hardest, then, you know, hopefully it kind of pays off. So it's just a lot of, a lot of pressure in terms of, you know, wanting to keep going and, like, also expand, like, taking, like, every opportunity you can get. That's why, you know, I went from YouTube, and then I did radio, and then I was like, "Oh, I wanna break that barrier to TV." And then I started DJing and doing, like, music and going on tour and all these things. It was, like, just grabbing every opportunity I can to kind of grow as much as I possibly can. But it's, like, exhausting. It definitely takes a toll. And, yet, sometimes you do need to kind of step back. But also, like I said, if I stop, kind of everything stops, so taking a step back is like...

Steven Bartlett 57:36 Not possible.

Jack Maynard 57:37 Yeah, it's a bit of a risk.

Steven Bartlett 57:38 That carpen- was it carpentry-

Jack Maynard 57:40 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:40 ... job you had when you were 16?

Jack Maynard 57:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 57:42 Do sometimes you wish maybe... (laughs)

Jack Maynard 57:44 Sometimes I think, I'm like, yeah, 'cause, you know, my dad does fine for himself. He's had three kids, and we've all turned out, like, fine, and we've all done well for ourselves. Sometimes I feel like I would be so much happier, but at the same time, I'm like, oh my God. Like, when I look back at some of the things I've done in my life, I'm like, "That's amazing." Like-

Steven Bartlett 57:59 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 57:59 I'm, like, so proud of myself for some of the things I've done. In the moment, it felt pretty cool. But when I look back on it, I'm like, "That was, like, huge."

Steven Bartlett 58:07 And you're still so young.

Jack Maynard 58:09 Yeah, I'm 20 just about, yeah, 26.

Steven Bartlett 58:11 Taking all the pressure off, and I don't wanna apply extra pressure here, but when you look forward at your, the next, I don't know, 20 years of your life, how in your mind do you see that kind of playing out? I don't mean like, "I'm gonna be doing this exact thing."

Jack Maynard 58:22 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:22 But I mean, like, what are you looking for from life?

Jack Maynard 58:25 Um, I think I'm looking, like, being completely honest with you, it's kind of like probably looking more into, like, businesses and, like, business and having, like I said, I've got my own, like, production company right now that's doing probably way better than I thought it was gonna be doing at this point, which is good. So, like, things like that, just growing it as much as I can and, you know, kind of the classic, I wanna be, like, a boss and across so many things.

Steven Bartlett 58:49 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 58:49 Not that I'm not working, but, you know?

Steven Bartlett 58:51 Mm-hmm.

Jack Maynard 58:51 It's not like I've got a nine-to-five type thing.

Steven Bartlett 58:54 For sure.

Jack Maynard 58:54 So it's kind of, like, like I was doing YouTube, 'cause I, ha, could kind of do whatever I wanted with my days, but I knew I had to do, like, X amount of things, and, and, you know, I'm still making, like, my money and everything like that. And I think, yeah, you know, I look at, I'm probably not gonna be 30 years old making, like, these kind of YouTube videos anyway. Who knows? But...

Steven Bartlett 59:12 (laughs) Might be a niche for that.

Jack Maynard 59:15 Yeah, yeah. (laughs) So it's, like, realistically, I look at my life probably, like, trying to go into, into that kind of direction, just building something else.

Steven Bartlett 59:24 Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next.

Jack Maynard 59:27 Thank you.

Steven Bartlett 59:27 I'm, um, I'm gonna be watching very, very closely now that I stalk you on social media, so...

Jack Maynard 59:32 (laughs) Appreciate it.

Steven Bartlett 59:33 And I think, like, you, as I say, you're, like, super young, but you have such a wealth of experience from everything you've been through.

Jack Maynard 59:38 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 59:38 And I don't think, you know, sometimes we don't realize how, how valuable some of that experience has been until, until later in life.

Jack Maynard 59:43 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 59:44 And in fact, I still think about my hardest ever moments starting in business as a young guy-

Jack Maynard 59:47 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 59:48 ... as being my, um, m- some of my most traumatic moments as being my most valuable because they, like-

Jack Maynard 59:52 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 59:52 You have something that no one else has, right?

Jack Maynard 59:54 Yeah, absolutely.

Steven Bartlett 59:54 You know, and you have experiences. Thank you so much for coming today.

Jack Maynard 59:57 Thank you for having me.

Steven Bartlett 59:57 Your story is riveting and, um-

Jack Maynard 59:59 Great.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:00 ... you've been so honest as well-

Jack Maynard 1:00:01 Definitely.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:02 ... which was the whole point of this podcast at the end of the day 'cause, and I also know that you've helped a lot of people by walking us through your journey with mental health, with, with, you know, and with learning a bit more about it. So just wanna say a huge thank you-

Jack Maynard 1:00:13 Thanks.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:13 ... and, um, if you ever do start a podcast-

Jack Maynard 1:00:15 Thank you for having me.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:15 ... we'll do this again once you-

Jack Maynard 1:00:16 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:16 ... once I can siphon off all your listeners.

Jack Maynard 1:00:18 Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:18 But, uh, but yeah, thank you so much. No, it's really appreciated.

Jack Maynard 1:00:21 Appreciate it. Thank you.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:23 Thank you. (instrumental music plays) People ask me for book recommendations all the time, and I've finally got one for you. It's a book called Happy Sexy Millionaire, which is authored by me. There's this crazy thing when you write a book because you, you spend so much time pouring your heart and soul into it and everything you know and all of the revelations you've had in your life. And then there's this barrier, which is that people have to buy the thing in order for them to get that thing that means so much to you. I wish that wasn't the case. It's just the way the industry is, and in order to get that distribution and to get it on shelves, you need a publisher. So please, please, please, if you can, if you've ever liked anything I've e- ever produced, this podcast, my Instagrams, anything I've ever said, read this book. There was no ghost writer. I wrote every single word myself. There's some real surprises in there. It's an honest, sometimes hilarious, incredibly vulnerable, hopefully valuable recount of my life, my journey, everything I've learnt across, across the way, and really the answer to being fulfilled, to being happy, and to achieving success. It is the most impor- important thing I've ever created, so I implore you to go to Amazon now or wherever you get your books and get that pre-order. If you get that pre-order, I'm gonna put you into a group with everybody that's pre-ordered it, and I'm gonna send you some exclusive stuff. So the first things I'm gonna do is a series of voice notes, which I think are, um, are gonna be pretty powerful. I'm gonna give you access to some tickets, which nobody else will have, and I'm gonna do everything I can to thank you for, for, for giving me that sort of nine quid of your money or whate- whatever it is. Happy Sexy Millionaire, you can pre-order it everywhere now, and if you do get that pre-order, please do DM me 'cause I'd love to thank you myself. (instrumental music plays)