The Diary of a CEOJesse Lingard Reveals The Problem With Man United Today & Why He Moved To Nottingham Forest | E214
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:30
Host Intro and Milestone Celebration
Stephen Bartlett opens the episode by thanking viewers for helping the channel reach one million subscribers and emphasizing how audience support enables high-profile guests and future plans. He then briefly introduces Jesse Lingard and transitions into the conversation.
- •Channel hits one million subscribers; Stephen expresses gratitude.
- •Explanation of how subscriptions help secure guests and expand operations.
- •Tease of future plans and projects for the show.
- •Introduction of Jesse Lingard as the episode’s guest.
- 3:30 – 11:30
Early Life, Family Split, and Grandad’s Relentless Drive
Lingard describes his childhood after his parents’ separation, being shuttled between his mum’s and his grandparents’ homes, and discovering football as his ‘happy place’. His grandfather, a former Great Britain powerlifter, becomes the dominant figure, pushing him hard with training, trials, and even weightlifting at a very young age.
- •Parents split when he was very young; lived between mum and grandparents.
- •Grandad drove him to multiple trials (Everton, City, Liverpool, then United).
- •Signed for Manchester United at nine; played with talents like Pogba and Ravel Morrison.
- •Grandad’s extreme standards: banned from games, telling 12-year-olds they weren’t fit to wear the shirt.
- •Early weight training driven by grandad’s powerlifting background.
- •Football pitch identified as his happiest place.
- 11:30 – 24:00
Growing Up With a Depressed Mother
Lingard explains that his mother suffered from depression from his earliest memories, spending most days in bed and later lacking any real support system. Only in his mid-teens did he understand what was happening, and he reflects on how her condition shaped his childhood, their relationship, and his motivation to make her proud—highlighted by her pushing herself to attend the World Cup.
- •As a child he saw his mum in bed all day but didn’t understand it as depression.
- •She would drop him at school, then sleep until pickup time, in a darkened room.
- •There was little mental-health awareness or support back then; she bottled everything up.
- •Her attending the World Cup quarterfinals was a huge emotional moment for him.
- •He believes her depression may have begun when she had him and struggled with motherhood.
- •Odd behaviors (like stretching his legs before bed) that neither fully understand now.
- •Today she has more support and has made major progress, including appearing in his documentary.
- 24:00 – 42:00
Emotional Expression, Parents’ Conflict, and Narcissistic Partners
The discussion moves to how Jesse learned (or didn’t learn) to express emotions, with warmth mainly from his mum’s side and emotional distance from his dad’s. He talks candidly about his parents’ ongoing conflict, his mum’s pattern of choosing narcissistic, controlling partners—one of whom died by suicide—and how this left him torn between wanting her happiness and needing to protect her.
- •Emotional openness came from mum and grandparents; dad’s side was less physically affectionate.
- •His dad is only now realizing life is too short to stay in conflict.
- •Mum repeatedly picked narcissistic, controlling “bad boys” that targeted her vulnerabilities.
- •One partner hanged himself, deeply affecting the family.
- •Partners would bombard her with accusatory messages, which she strangely ‘thrived off’.
- •Bartlett and Lingard discuss how unresolved issues attract toxic relationships.
- •Lingard struggled with whether to let her stay in unhealthy relationships if she seemed happy.
- 42:00 – 54:00
Climbing Through United’s Ranks and the Power of Man-Management
Lingard retraces his path through Manchester United’s youth and first team, crediting Sir Alex Ferguson’s prediction that he’d make it at 23–24 and Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho for key breakthroughs. He highlights how different managers—Ferguson, Mourinho, and Gareth Southgate—used personal connection and small gestures to build confidence and trust.
- •Ferguson told him early he’d reach the first team around 23–24, motivating him.
- •Van Gaal gave him a crucial start vs CSKA Moscow after a long injury layoff—make-or-break moment.
- •United academy culture: black boots, no gloves, basics and values drilled in.
- •First-team dressing room under Ferguson full of banter but rooted in winning mentality.
- •Ferguson’s legendary man-management: knowing everyone’s names, families, and journeys.
- •Examples of Jose Mourinho FaceTiming him randomly to check in and show care.
- •Gareth Southgate’s England environment: personal room photos, open conversations, but still able to deliver a ‘hairdryer’ when needed.
- 54:00 – 1:06:00
Post-Ferguson United: From Family Club to Corporate Machine
Stephen contrasts stories of the Ferguson era with staff now feeling ignored under Ed Woodward. Lingard agrees the atmosphere changed, with less personal engagement from leadership. He underscores how Ferguson’s presence unified football and non-football sides of the club, and how his departure created a vacuum that subsequent structures failed to fill.
- •Under Ferguson, senior leadership knew staff by name and interacted regularly.
- •Ferguson invested time understanding players’ families and backgrounds.
- •Post-Ferguson, the club felt less like a ‘family’ and more transactional.
- •Rio Ferdinand’s story of Ferguson sending his granddad’s favorite whisky/flowers underlines his empathy.
- •Man-management praised as the defining edge of Ferguson’s success.
- •Lingard sees similar man-management strengths in Southgate and Mourinho when they’re at their best.
- 1:06:00 – 1:13:00
Why United’s Billion-Pound Spend Didn’t Translate to Success
Stephen presses Lingard on why United, despite spending nearly a billion on players, failed to reach expected levels during the Moyes, van Gaal, and Mourinho eras. Lingard argues that many signings arrived as world-class stars but looked average at United, implying systemic issues—from pressure and culture to tactical cohesion—rather than player quality alone.
- •United won cups (FA Cup, Europa League, League Cup) but lacked Premier League/Champions League dominance.
- •Lingard notes Alexis Sanchez looked outstanding in training but couldn’t replicate it in matches.
- •He questions why multiple world-class talents underperformed specifically at United.
- •He suggests pressure and a lack of ‘click’ or cohesion undermined performance.
- •He highlights his own strong season under Mourinho, which propelled him to the 2018 World Cup.
- •Begins outlining patterns of broken promises and inconsistent selection under Solskjær.
- 1:13:00 – 1:25:00
West Ham Revival, Euro 2020 Snub, and Unanswered Questions
Lingard details negotiating a loan exit with Solskjær if he wasn’t playing by December, culminating in a stuttering move to West Ham that nearly collapsed on deadline day. At West Ham he delivered one of his best spells, yet was still omitted from England’s Euro 2020 squad. He admits being heartbroken and hints there may be reasons beyond form that he still doesn’t understand.
- •Agreement with Solskjær: if not playing enough by December, he could go on loan.
- •West Ham move nearly blocked by Ed Woodward before eventually going through.
- •At West Ham he scored 9 goals and 5 assists between February and May.
- •Despite being one of the league’s most in-form players, he wasn’t selected for the Euros.
- •He was too hesitant at the time to ask Southgate directly why he’d been overlooked.
- •He still has no clear explanation and wonders what more he could have done.
- 1:25:00 – 1:35:00
Mother’s Hospitalization and Lingard’s Mental Collapse at United
In 2019, Lingard’s mother was admitted to hospital because her depression became unmanageable, leaving him responsible for his teenage siblings while battling his own deteriorating mental health. He describes going on ‘autopilot’, not wanting to be on the pitch, drinking at night to numb the pain, and being pushed over the edge by abuse from fans as he boarded the team bus after a Derby match.
- •Mother’s condition worsened to the point of hospitalisation; he became primary carer for siblings.
- •He felt he was failing as a big brother while also struggling personally.
- •On the pitch he was mentally checked out, simply going through the motions.
- •Abuse from fans (“Jesse, you’re shit!”) after a win against Derby was a tipping point.
- •Luke Shaw confronted the abusers, but the damage to Lingard’s psyche was done.
- •He recalls lying motionless on the sofa for minutes, staring into space.
- •He used alcohol as a coping mechanism at night, which he now sees made things worse.
- 1:35:00 – 1:42:00
Opening Up, Media Scrutiny, and the Hidden Cost of Criticism
Lingard explains how he masked his depression with banter at training until he finally told Solskjær, the club doctor, and liaison staff what was happening. He notes that even after a newspaper piece, many fans didn’t grasp his reality until his documentary aired. The conversation touches on social media abuse, pundit criticism, and how some players secretly absorb more than they show.
- •He eventually confided in Solskjær and a small circle at the club, easing some pressure.
- •A press piece didn’t fully change public perception; the documentary did more.
- •He strongly avoids reading social media comments, viewing it as self-sabotage.
- •Acknowledges some players read criticism and it affects confidence and performance.
- •Pundit comments often hurt more than anonymous online abuse because they’re amplified.
- •He believes today’s players are generally stronger mentally but still human and impacted.
- 1:42:00 – 1:49:00
Blocked Moves, Broken Trust, and United’s Loss of Control
After excelling at West Ham, Lingard wanted either to stay there or join a club where he’d play regularly. He recounts how a planned loan to Newcastle was blocked by football director John Murtough, who instead offered him ‘days off’. The club then briefed the media that Lingard had asked for time off, forcing him to publicly correct the record and deepening his sense that United had become chaotic and leaderless.
- •He lost his place again after returning from West Ham despite strong form.
- •Newcastle loan agreed in principle, but United blocked it citing squad size.
- •Murtough’s “do you want days off?” comment left Lingard incredulous.
- •Media reports claimed he’d asked for two days off; he refuted this on Twitter.
- •He characterizes the club then as lacking structure, balance, and control.
- •Players felt empowered to speak out on social media because untruths were circulating.
- •He notes world-class teammates like Pogba looking transformed with their national teams compared to United.
- 1:49:00 – 1:57:00
Outdated Facilities, Ownership Issues, and United Falling Behind Rivals
Lingard criticizes United’s failure to modernize infrastructure and culture, citing unchanged facilities since Ronaldo’s first spell, lack of recreational spaces, and slow adoption of modern media strategies. For a club of United’s size, he views this as symbolic of deeper stagnation compared with the cutting-edge environments at clubs like Manchester City and Tottenham.
- •He describes United as “so behind on everything” from content to facilities.
- •Cites Ronaldo’s complaint that pool, jacuzzi, and gym areas were unchanged from years ago.
- •Training ground social spaces like ping-pong and darts were removed, reducing camaraderie.
- •He once proposed YouTube-style content in 2017, but the club was slow to act.
- •Contrast with City and Spurs’ modern training complexes and set-ups.
- •He suggests lack of investment off the pitch mirrors on-pitch decline and fan frustration with the Glazers.
- •Players themselves were relatively indifferent to ownership politics but felt the consequences of underinvestment.
- 1:57:00 – 2:09:00
Leaving Manchester United and Choosing Nottingham Forest
Lingard recalls the emotional reality of leaving United after a lifetime at the club, breaking down in tears in his car after a physio reminded him of his FA Cup and Youth Cup memories. Turning down a contract extension, he prioritized happiness and game time, ultimately choosing Nottingham Forest over West Ham because Forest showed clearer respect, urgency, and personal attention in their pursuit.
- •Final day at United triggered intense emotion; he cried all the way home.
- •He felt let down by false promises and not getting a proper send-off.
- •Despite being offered a new contract, he declined due to lack of playing time.
- •West Ham negotiations for a permanent move were rushed and, in his view, disrespectful of his contributions.
- •Forest flew the owner and manager around, offered to visit his house, and made him feel genuinely wanted.
- •He wanted a new challenge after a lifetime at one club, even if it meant a relegation battle.
- •He emphasizes that personal happiness and feeling loved outweigh being at “the biggest club in the world.”
- 2:09:00 – 2:16:00
Adapting to Forest, New Challenges, and Finding Joy Again
Lingard discusses Forest’s difficult start to the season with a large influx of new players, and how recent performances showed signs of cohesion before the World Cup break. He notes the difference in style compared to United—less possession and fewer chances—but says he relishes the challenge, especially with the intense atmosphere at the City Ground.
- •Forest signed 20+ players, making early-season integration challenging.
- •Matches against Spurs and Crystal Palace showed improving understanding and momentum.
- •He highlights away-form struggles and the need to dig deep to avoid relegation.
- •Describes the City Ground atmosphere as unlike anything he’s experienced, providing goosebumps.
- •He is adjusting from United’s ball-dominant style to playing with fewer chances.
- •Reiterates that he’s happy, loves training, and values feeling central to a project.
- 2:16:00 – 2:30:00
Entrepreneurship, Media Ventures, and Life After Football
Turning to his off-pitch life, Lingard outlines his investments in esports, fashion, and his media company One Touch, named after the one-touch games he played with his grandfather. He explains how owning production allows him to control his narrative and content, and shares ambitions to move into acting in the US after his playing days, starting with comedy and voice work before more serious roles.
- •He has always been active off the pitch, seeking the next business or creative venture.
- •Investments span esports, fashion, and events (including a brand launch with Lil Baby performing).
- •One Touch media company produced his Channel 4 documentary and gives him final cut on content.
- •He wants to lay foundations for his sister, brother, and daughter to step into in future.
- •Long-term, he dreams of acting—initially in comedy, then in complex films like Interstellar/Inception.
- •Recognises he needs drama classes and sees this as a gradual post-football career path.
- •Media company is based in LA, aligning with his interest in finishing his career in MLS.
- 2:30:00
His Mum’s Progress, Family Bonds, and Learning to Ask Questions
The conversation closes with a focus on Lingard’s mother, her progress from an isolated, bedridden state to daily FaceTimes and public appearances, and how proud he is of her resilience. Answering a question left by the previous guest, he admits he long avoided uncomfortable conversations and wishes he’d challenged decisions more earlier in his career; becoming a father has pushed him to ‘grow up’ and stop banishing difficult questions to the shadows.
- •He becomes emotional describing how far his mother has come after years of depression.
- •He wants her to live long enough to see him and his daughter Hope flourish.
- •His little sister Daisy provides his mum with much-needed daily support and companionship.
- •Their household is full of constant joking and ‘carnage’, strengthening family bonds.
- •Asked what he’s banished to the shadows, he says: questioning authority and decisions.
- •He used to accept situations silently; only in recent years has he started demanding explanations.
- •Fatherhood has accelerated his personal growth and resolve to advocate for himself and his family.
