Jesse Lingard Reveals The Problem With Man United Today & Why He Moved To Nottingham Forest | E214

Jesse Lingard 0:00 What was going through my head at that time, I do not know. I was drinking, just trying to take the pain away.

Steven Bartlett 0:07 It's tough, man. (heart beating) And Lingard! (crowd cheering) Absolutely fantastic. Jesse Lingard!

Jesse Lingard 0:20 Hey, that's football. With a club like ManUnited, obviously it's all big. They can have that control over you, but people have a voice. Jesse, he asked if we could, uh, give him a couple of days off. When things are getting said about you that are not true, you've got to voice your opinion. I knew I needed to leave.

Steven Bartlett 0:36 Do you have a suspicion why you weren't picked?

Jesse Lingard 0:38 Hmm...

Steven Bartlett 0:39 You do, don't you? I can see it in your face.

Jesse Lingard 0:41 So this is the whole thing what happened. (instrumental music plays)

Steven Bartlett 0:44 Is there a day that you look back on and you go, "That was the hardest day." (crowd yelling) Jesse, you're shit! You're dead (beep) , bro!

Jesse Lingard 0:51 Getting that much abuse, and I'm already down and off, and I've got to perform. I was still trying to be Jesse, like, "Hey," like, banter, banter, jokes and that. But of course it's going to affect me. He's not done much at all this season. I'm already going through things that you don't know about. I felt like I had the world on my shoulders.

Steven Bartlett 1:07 In 2019, your mother was admitted to hospital.

Jesse Lingard 1:11 She couldn't really cope anymore.

Steven Bartlett 1:13 Did you ever figure out what the root cause of your mother's depression was?

Jesse Lingard 1:18 I think as soon as she had me, to be honest.

Steven Bartlett 1:27 Thank you for tuning in to watch this episode. Honestly, an incredible episode, but I have to say thank you before we begin, because we've hit a million subscribers on this channel now, and I... it's almost unthinkable. It's, I can't... You know, I'm speaking for our entire team here when I say, it's genuinely, genuinely unthinkable. Biggest privilege of my life to get to do this. Means the world that you guys tune in every, every week, uh, to listen to these episodes. Roughly 65% of you that watch this channel now subscribe to the channel, which is amazing. If you haven't yet subscribed, could you please do me a little bit of a favor? Um, I can't tell you how much it helps this channel, and how much it's helped us to pull in amazing, amazing guests, and to expand everything within our operations. And how it's also gonna help us enable the, the year that's to come and all the plans we have, some huge plans, which I'm going to be bringing to you very shortly. Really, really hope you enjoy this episode. Thank you for being here. Thank you for helping us reach this huge milestone of a million subscribers. Let's get on with it. (instrumental music plays)

Steven Bartlett 2:23 Jesse, give me your context. What is the... Take me right back to when you were in those early years, as you signed and joined Manchester United, I think at seven years old. What was life like? If I'd been in your home, if I'd been in your surroundings, in your environment, what was life like?

Jesse Lingard 2:41 Um, life was good. Obviously, Mum and Dad split up an early age, especially when I was born, which can make things a lot difficult. Um, but I still had the, the desire, the hunger to go in training. My grandad took me in training, you know, week in, week out. You know, I had trials at Everton, City, Liverpool. So my grandad was driving up and down the motorway constantly, um, you know, to, to support me and, and take me to, to training and games. And then, obviously made the decision to, to sign for United at, at nine years old. You know, we had a, you know, great team, um, you know, the likes of Pogba, um, Ravel in the team. So we had a g- we had a great team, and, um, I think outside of that, obviously my mum was very supportive, my dad was very supportive. He's, you know, football mad, you know, so I think that support system, especially at an early age, is important.

Steven Bartlett 3:38 Did, did everybody in your circle around you have high hopes for your, for your career when you were that age, about 10, 12, 13? Did they think you were going to be a professional football player?

Jesse Lingard 3:47 I think my grandad did.

Steven Bartlett 3:48 Your grandad did?

Jesse Lingard 3:49 Yeah. He... I mean, he was on the astroturf pretty much every day, practicing skills, learning new things. Um, and he had the, the belief that I would be a footballer. And, you know, if it wasn't for him, then, you know, I wouldn't be in the situation that I'm in, because he took time out of his day to take me on the astroturf, you know, practice. My brother would come down, my dad would come down, you know, we'd play one touch, two-touch football, you know, pretty much on a regular basis. And that's my happy place, that's where I'm, I'm most happy, on, on a football pitch. And, and like I say, my grandad was, you know, very important, you know, putting me into Liverpool, into City, into United on trials, because, you know, people recognized, you know, their talent. But he was there to push me.

Steven Bartlett 4:37 I, I was watching the documentary and I saw, um, a grandad who looked (laughs) ... It's rare to see... I mean, one might expect a dad or a mother to be that pushy and direct-

Jesse Lingard 4:50 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 4:50 ... and critical, but to see a grandad being that savage-

Jesse Lingard 4:56 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 4:56 ... with you at times was quite surprising. Can you give me a fl- For anybody that hasn't seen it, can you give me a flavor of how, how, um, tough he was at times?

Jesse Lingard 5:07 Well, he got, he got, he got banned a couple of times. Like, when I say we're, we're 12 years old, we're playing Stoke away, and he's come on the pitch after the game and said, "You're not fit to wear this shirt." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 5:18 Your grandad's bet you.

Jesse Lingard 5:19 Yeah. Said, "You're not fit to wear this shirt. None of you are fit to wear this shirt." Rah, rah. I'm thinking... Like, the coach is looking at me, I'm like, "I can't do nothing." He had me on weights at ten years old, like lifting weights. Went into, to ManUnited and said to one of the coaches, Tony Whelan at the time, he said, like, you know, "I'm getting my grandson into..." Because obviously he was a powerlifter for Great Britain.

Steven Bartlett 5:42 Right.

Jesse Lingard 5:42 So, you know, he wanted me on the weights at an early, early age to try and build a bit of muscle because, you know, I was always small. He kind of drove that from, you know, being a powerlifter, you know, for Great Britain, kind of passed it down to me. My mum was a gymnast, so he was kind of tough on her as well.

Steven Bartlett 5:59 Mm-hmm.

Jesse Lingard 6:01 ... the wrong way, um, because obviously she wanted to be a gymnast, but my grandad was so hard on her that, you know, eventually she, you know, she quit on that. Um, but even with me, you know, some games I'd, you know, not play the best and, you know, you get in the car on the way home (laughs) and, you know, I'd say like, "Look, oh, my toe was sore today," like just trying to make excuses 'cause he was so, like, hard on me, but he was trying to push... Uh, like, it come from a good place, you know what I'm saying?

Steven Bartlett 6:27 So, the reason why your mother quit gymnastics was because he was so hard

Steven Bartlett 6:31 on her?

Jesse Lingard 6:31 Yeah. He was just so- so tough on her. Um, and obviously she didn't have really the motivation to carry on. Um, probably she weren't strong enough to- to carry on that. But, you know, for me, I- I always knew I wanted to be a footballer so, you know, having, you know, my grandad, you know, my dad and my mum around me at the time, them trying to push me. And it was difficult even at an earlier stage because, you know, I was living at my mum's a couple of days and my grandad's a couple of days. And this is only down the road, It's literally five minutes, but you know, like I say, my mum couldn't really cope with me at the time, um, you know, so I was back and forth from my nan and grandad's a lot. And then, like I say, like I say, driving up and down the motorway, Liverpool, straight back to Manchester. Like I would train at Liverpool for one day, have a game for United the next day. So, you know, he put the, he put the mileage in, you know, to get me where I want to be today.

Steven Bartlett 7:25 You said your, you said though that your mother couldn't really cope with you at the time. What do you- what do you mean by that?

Jesse Lingard 7:31 It was depression. Um, she'd be in bed all day. Well, most days. Um, you know, I'd go in, ask for money for the ice cream, like, still be in bed. So me, I was ha- I was happy-go-lucky, like I'm bubbly, like, "What's it gonna play out?" We'd play football, my friends. But, and you don't understand, you know, the situation that, you know, your mother's in at the time. I was so young so I didn't really understand what was going on, um, until obviously it got- it got brought to light, you know, maybe, probably say, (sighs) probably say about 16, 17, you can kind of understand like what she's going through and- and things. But she'd never talk about it, she'll always bottle it up.

Steven Bartlett 8:19 So your mother was suffering from depression even when you were very, very young?

Jesse Lingard 8:24 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 8:24 But at that time you just didn't realize what it was?

Jesse Lingard 8:27 No, didn't know what it was.

Steven Bartlett 8:28 Did she know what it was?

Jesse Lingard 8:30 I think she, I think she knew, yeah. But she would never... At that time we didn't have really a support system to support her. She didn't have really people around her that, you know, she could go to, like she can go to my PA now and, you know, go to the doctors and, you know, she would sort all that out. But at that time obviously I think she knew what it was, but, she couldn't really cope with it. She couldn't really... Didn't know how to deal with certain things. Um, and you know, for me, I'm just a kid so I wanted this to play out, have fun, play football. But for her, she just wanted to go be in bed like all day. She would, she would, she could drop me off at school... Well, she could drop me off at school at eight o'clock in the morning and then sleep until three o'clock until she picks me up. That's how bad it was. Like she was really going through it.

Steven Bartlett 9:20 So she'd sleep all night, wake up to drop you to school and then go back to bed?

Jesse Lingard 9:23 Mm-hmm. Yeah. She'd sleep in the daytime, pick me up from school, probably go back to bed again. Just lay in bed. Like curtain shut, dark room, everything. And then obviously, you know, bath me, whatever, go, um, before I go to bed and then she'll sleep all night.

Steven Bartlett 9:43 Over the last 10 years or so people have become more aware of what like depression and mental health is. And this is kind of why I ask if your mother knew what it was because like 10 years ago, if I'm being completely honest, there was a real stigma around mental health. It was kind of seen as someone just kind of being a bit crazy.

Jesse Lingard 9:56 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 9:56 And over the last 10 years thankfully we've gotten to a point where we have a better understanding that we have physical and mental health. And this is why I say, like, did your mother know what it was? Did she just think she was just sad or- or she didn't have motivation or did she know she was depressed?

Jesse Lingard 10:11 Yeah, I think it was the, probably the motivation part.

Steven Bartlett 10:13 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 10:13 Like she couldn't get out of bed. She couldn't motivate herself to get out of bed. Even when the World Cup... I was dying for her to be there. And I think she came for the quarterfinals and that just made me so happy because in her situation, you know, not getting out of bed, not having the motivation, but she found that motivation to come and see her son play at the World Cup. That was, like, I was, I told her like, I was really proud of her. Like it was, it's brave what you did 'cause, you know, every day in bed, depressed, no motivation and just to find that little bit of motivation just to come and see, you know, her son at the World Cup. And don't forget she's got, you know, I've got my little sister and little brother as well so, you know, she's got to deal with them as well, um, which is always tough. But like I say, to- to find that motivation to come and see me at the World Cup was important for me especially, because I wanted to, I wanted her there anyway regardless, and I didn't even know she was coming until I was in the lineup singing the national anthem with Messina.

Steven Bartlett 11:18 You seen her when you were doing that? Really?

Jesse Lingard 11:19 Yeah. And it just gave me goosebumps straightaway. Like I was so emotional after that and I wanted to perform at the highest level and win the game just for her. And I think there's a, there's a video on- on my Instagram of me hugging her for like two, three minutes.

Steven Bartlett 11:33 I've seen it.

Jesse Lingard 11:34 And it's just some things that can, that can make you happy as, you know, as a person but, just to be there and get up and get changed and get dressed and have that motivation to see her son at- her son at World Cup. That's what made me happy.

Steven Bartlett 11:48 This is a bit of a difficult question because it's not always obvious, but did you, did you ever figure out where or what the root cause of your mother's depression was?

Jesse Lingard 11:59 Um, not really, no. I think-I think as soon as she had me, to be honest. I think it was just difficult for her to, to handle having a, having a child. Um, like I say, I mean, my nan and grandad, you know, took over most of the time. But, you know, she was still there, she was still a mother. But it was just hard for her to, to deal with it. And, you know, we had certain instances where, you know, w- we'd be in bed and she'd be, like, trying to stretch my legs and that. Like, I'm like, "What's going on? Why, why, what's happening there?" I didn't, I, I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know she had depression at the time. I was such, I was such, at such a young age. Um, but for her, it was just normal. Like, normal for her. And she's like, you know, "Stretch your legs, like, you've got training tomorrow." And I'm like, "Well, what's going on?" Like, I didn't realize what was going on. So she had them, like, phases where, you know, she'd do, um, you know, some just extraordinary, you know, stuff.

Steven Bartlett 12:58 Stretching your legs? I'm confused.

Jesse Lingard 13:00 Yeah, just, like, like, stretching my groins out. Like, before, like, we went to sleep. Just, like, i- it was strange for me because I knew I had training the next day. But for her, that was probably n- like, natural and normal. Do you know what I mean? Like, uh, it still, it don't, still don't resonate with me today and probably doesn't re- resonate with her today of what was going through her head at the time. Like, especially when I was born. Like, could she handle that situation of having a kid?

Steven Bartlett 13:28 So you're saying basically before you would go to sleep, she was stretching your legs in a way that didn't make sense? Like, as in...

Jesse Lingard 13:34 Yeah, I was just like, "I just want to go to sleep." Like, "Why?" Well, I would never question, like, I would never question her. But she would just do, like, extraordinary stuff.

Steven Bartlett 13:44 And this lasted, this has lasted up until today? Since as young as you can remember till, till today?

Jesse Lingard 13:51 Yeah. And I think she'll just, she'll still al- she'll still always have depression, but she can cope with it now. She can handle it because, like I said, we've got the right support system around. But still, it's, like I say, I've got my little brother and sister who she looks after, and you know what? She's come on, my mom, mom's come on leaps and bounds, to be honest. Especially from, like, even the documentary. She was nervous to do that. Like, she was crying in the car. Like, the director spoke to her and said, "You're gonna be involved in it." She, she was crying, like, then she got with it. But, you know, she f- found the courage, found the motivation, you know, to do it. And that's, uh, still a big thing even though she's going through what she's going through. But like I say, we can, we can handle, you know, certain situations now.

Steven Bartlett 14:38 Emotions. Y- you said about bottling up your emotions and generally, you know, I think men in particular have a real problem with kind of expressing their emotions for various reasons because we're, you know, we're ma- macho and masculine and whatever else. But, um, did you learn at a young age at all how to express your emotions? Did you see, did you have models in your life where people were emotionally expressive?

Jesse Lingard 15:00 No. Only with, only with my mom and my nan and grandad. They would always say, "Love you." Like, "How are you? Are you okay?" But, like, Dad's side, uh, not, not much. Like, rarely hug. More of a, you know, fist bump. But, you know, sometimes you got to see that, that love inside, especially from, you know, our father and, you know, me becoming a father as well. That's all I want to do with, with Hope. You know, tell her I love her. You know, express, you know, that emotion to her. Um, so I mainly got it from, like, my mom's side, grandad, nan, mainly. And I say, I think my dad's coming to a realization where, you know, he's seen the documentary and, you know, he's thought, "There's, what's the point in, you know, s- it's a short life. What's the point in, in arguing all the time?" 'Cause my mom and dad have never seen eye to eye. So, I can understand from my mom's perspective where, you know, she don't wanna see him. But, I mean, dad's come to a realization where it's like, "Look, let's get together. Let's have a coffee. Let's sit down." You know, documentary really, you know, woke him up and, and realized life's too short to, you know... 'Cause it'd become games and my mum would... It'd, uh, he'd be asking, like, "Is, is your mum in the box? Like, who's in the box? Like, who, who's in the box?" And I'm like, "My mum." He'll be like, "Oh, I'll, I'll sit in the stands then." And I know it shouldn't be like that, but, you know, that's how it is. But he wants that, you know, togetherness again. But I can never see my mum doing it. I can never see my mum giving him the time of day, to be honest.

Steven Bartlett 16:40 Has your mum been able to find a new partner since...

Jesse Lingard 16:45 (laughs) She picks (laughs) yeah, she picks, um, not the best people, to be honest. Um, she picks a lot of narcissists. But she kind of thrives off that for some reason. Like, the bad boys and, you know, the situation that we're in, you know, you can't be going out with these guys and doing what you're doing with these guys because, you know, it comes back to me. We've had a lot of drama with most of them, to be honest. And the last guy hung himself. Mm-hmm. Which was, (sighs) it was deep. Um, but he, you know what narcissists are like. Like, one minute, shh, he'd be giving her the world and then next he'd be like, "Who you with?" Like, "Who you texting?" Blah, blah. And I'm speak- I'm saying, I'm like, "Mum, these guys are not good for you, mum. Like, they're not good for you." But someh- someh- somehow she thrives off them situations and gets a buzz off it and becomes happy. So, I was in a situation where it's like-... do I want Mum to be happy, um, being with these guys? Or, you know, bring her back down to earth? So it was a difficult situation. But like I say, yeah, the guy, you know, hung himself in, in the end. Um, and then I think after that my mum realised, um, you know, she can't be, you know, dating these people.

Steven Bartlett 18:30 It's difficult, innit? I, I completely relate to, well I can completely understand, not that I've had that lived experience but I can understand what you're saying with this conflict of, "I want her to be with someone, but if it's a bad option would I rather her just be alone." And then, you know, I was thinking as you were saying that about many of my friends who have been going through difficult situations with their mental health. And what ends up happening, because there might be a gap somewhere or something missing or something not quite stable with you, you end up attracting someone, like a mirror, who is also-

Jesse Lingard 19:02 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:02 ... a little bit unstable-

Jesse Lingard 19:05 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:05 ... or who isn't in the best place.

Jesse Lingard 19:06 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:06 And you kind of are toxic together in a, in a way.

Jesse Lingard 19:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:10 And often, I think with some of my friends, it's like you just need to work on yourself first before you-

Jesse Lingard 19:16 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:16 ... you try and find someone who ... You know, 'cause a lot of the time we end up trying to look for someone that'll fix us.

Jesse Lingard 19:20 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:21 Which is never a good thing.

Jesse Lingard 19:22 I think that's what she, she did. She wanted someone to ... Because, you know, she's not, sh- she's got friends but she don't, she don't go out with her friends and, you know, be social. So, I feel like her having, you know, someone there, you know, she could go to his house, she could do things with him, she could be happy. But on the other side it's like, like they're not good for you though.

Steven Bartlett 19:47 Mm-hmm.

Jesse Lingard 19:48 Like, they're bringing, they kind of bring you down in a way.

Steven Bartlett 19:49 Manipulators and yeah, yeah.

Jesse Lingard 19:51 Manipulating, things like that.

Steven Bartlett 19:52 Yeah, yeah.

Jesse Lingard 19:52 And-

Steven Bartlett 19:53 They're well aware of your weaknesses.

Jesse Lingard 19:54 She, she believed it.

Steven Bartlett 19:55 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 19:55 Like, she believed like, like we'd, I don't know, we'd go probably, we'd go somewhere like me, my mum, Daisy and maybe travel somewhere or something like that. And the guy would be texting her like, "Where are you?" Like, "What are you doing? Who are you with?" Like, "I want to see the family. No you're not. No you're not. No you're not."

Steven Bartlett 20:09 Ah.

Jesse Lingard 20:10 And it's like ... And me mum, I don't know, me mum's like dealing with this and I'm like, "How can you deal with that?" I'm thinking, "How can you deal with this?" I'm like, "Just block him." But she just like, she loves the attention. She, she loves it.

Steven Bartlett 20:25 Narcissists target people like that.

Jesse Lingard 20:26 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 20:27 That they can control in such a way-

Jesse Lingard 20:28 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:28 ... be coercive and manipulate and sort of take advantage of their self-esteem and stuff. That's what narcissists do. Because they, a per- an individual like that, a narcissist like that, would never be successful in coercion and manipulation-

Jesse Lingard 20:41 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 20:41 ... of, um, someone who would go, "What the fuck are you texting me when I'm with my fi- ... The fuck do you think you are?" (laughs)

Jesse Lingard 20:47 Exactly this was, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:47 They wouldn't, they wouldn't, they wouldn't survive there.

Jesse Lingard 20:49 No.

Steven Bartlett 20:49 So they find, they find their way to people who they can-

Jesse Lingard 20:52 Easy targets.

Steven Bartlett 20:53 Yeah, exactly.

Jesse Lingard 20:53 Mum's the easy target. And it's-

Steven Bartlett 20:54 And it's difficult, though.

Jesse Lingard 20:55 She'll never, she'll never back down. If I say like, "Look, lea- just leave him." She's like, "Yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll block him, block him." But she'll unblock him the next day.

Steven Bartlett 21:03 It's tough, man.

Jesse Lingard 21:05 It's difficult. It's hard.

Steven Bartlett 21:07 It's difficult. Love's a difficult, difficult thing. Um, off you go into, to Manchester United. Um, when did you, when did you get, in your view, your first real break in Manchester?

Jesse Lingard 21:20 Um, probably when Jose came in.

Steven Bartlett 21:24 Really?

Jesse Lingard 21:25 Yeah. I mean-

Steven Bartlett 21:26 Not under Saf, Sir Alex Ferguson?

Jesse Lingard 21:29 Sir Alex said, "I'll make it when I'm 23" When I was 23, 24. So, you know, I always believed in him, he always believed in me. Um, I think when David Moyes came in I weren't ready to play first team football yet. And then I think, especially under Van Gaal, um, you know, it gave me the confidence to play. But still it was difficult because, you know, I was at a stage where I played the first game under Van Gaal, did my knee, six months out. January came, went on loan to Derby, and then the season after that's when it was like kind of make or break. So I left it till October time, and if I weren't playing then, then I knew I needed to, to leave. And then he played me at CSKA Moscow away, Champions League, like starting. I was like, "What? Okay." Freezing, cold, minus five, whatever it was. Rooney was like, "Don't wear gloves." I was like, "What?" He's like, "Don't wear gloves." I was like, "Okay." Didn't wear gloves, played well. And after that stayed in the team. So it's kind of a, that was kind of a make or break time for me.

Steven Bartlett 22:53 Why is that comment, "Don't wear gloves," significant to you?

Jesse Lingard 22:58 Because, you know, especially at United we're brought up gotta wear black boots, no gloves, no long bottoms in training. Just like the basic things we, you know, we're brought up with that. So when you go into the first team, course in the warmup, you know, I'm gonna wear gloves. But for the game, you know, back to basics, how we grew up, don't wear gloves in the game.

Steven Bartlett 23:24 It's about values, right?

Jesse Lingard 23:25 Just values,

Jesse Lingard 23:26 you know, it's morals, it's the way you've been brought up. You know, United put that into us at, at an early age.

Steven Bartlett 23:32 A lot of that comes from Sir Alex Ferguson, right?

Jesse Lingard 23:34 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 23:35 I'm super ... You know, I've sat here with a bunch of ex-Sir Alex Ferguson players, Rio, Gary, Patrice. How would you describe the, um, the culture at Manchester United during that Sir Alex Ferguson period? What was the culture like?

Jesse Lingard 23:49 It was good.

Steven Bartlett 23:50 Yeah?

Jesse Lingard 23:50 Always banter. Rio, Scholesy, Giggsy. Um, you know, always banter. Even on tour. Um, you know, it's good to go on tour with them and, you know, I think, you know, Rio being Rio, always was there for advice. Always there to speak to, um, you know, on a regular basis. Like most of them, Scholesy the same.... um-

Steven Bartlett 24:12 Were they honest and critical as well, though? Were they tough, some of those senior lads?

Jesse Lingard 24:17 Um, yeah, because they're winners, and you know, they've been there and done that. And you know, they've won trophies before. And you know, it was unfortunate that I weren't in, you know, any of the teams that, you know, won the Prem or, or Champions League. But, you know, even on tour it was, you know, we still win games. And you know, going on tour with them, especially with, you know, Sir Alex was, you know, an amazing feeling. I remember being on the bench, me and Pogba got called up for, to be on the bench against Newcastle. You know, not knowing if I'm gonna play or not, but still just to be there and see how, you know, they are in the changing room and, you know, see that winning mentality. And I think being at United is all, you know, it's, it's been instilled in you from a young age that, you know, winning's important. Don't matter how you win, just win. And I think they've been so successful, you know, over the years, um, you know, winning trophies, just by having that winning mentality.

Steven Bartlett 25:15 (laughs) Sir Alex Ferguson leaves. Now it's funny 'cause I'm a Manchester United fan. I'm a big fan, and I've had season tickets over the years. And, um, go to most of the games at home still today. And it- and from what I've heard, it went from being like a, like a family to being run by Ed Woodward and it feeling less like a family. Like one of the comments one of the waitresses made- said to me was, "You know, when Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill were here, they would come in here and like chat to us and they knew all of our names, every single one of our names."

Jesse Lingard 25:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 25:45 And then when Sir Alex Ferguson left, one of them said to me, "They don't, we don't, they don't speak to us anymore."

Jesse Lingard 25:51 It's different. Like Sir Alex was like man to man. Like when we're training with the first team, he'd bring us all that 16, 17, training with the first team. Like he give you that confidence. Know your names, know all like from probably under 10s to the first team. He'd know everyone's name. He'd take his time out to understand you as a person, understand your family. And like I say, you know, things change. Um, you know, but with him, you know, it was good that, you know, he could understand the family side, get to know your family a bit more. Um, you know, understand you as a person. You know, see your progression. Like I say, he said 23, 24 you'll be in the first team. You know, to hear that, you know, you can kind of got a big ego, but you know, for me it was nothing's guaranteed anyway. So I'm just gonna work my ass off 10 times, you know, more, you know, to be in that first team.

Steven Bartlett 26:52 Rio said to me that when his granddad was ill, Sir Alex Ferguson not only knew, but he knew what, um, Rio's granddad's favorite whiskey was, fav- flowers were, and he sent it to the hospital bed before anybody else. He got it there. So Rio said to me, when- "Whenever I've asked the senior players why Cyph was so good, they all said, they would all just, before you even get the words out, they'd say, 'Man management'." That's what you said there as well.

Jesse Lingard 27:13 Man management. And I think, I think even this day and age now, I feel like s- it's important. Even with Jose, Jose used to FaceTime me like randomly. A couple of times I'll be driving, he'll be FaceTiming me. Be like, "Where are you? Where are you, kid?" I'm just, just driving home from Selfridges. "Where's Marcus?" "Uh, I don't know, I think he's at home." "Okay, enjoy." Just little things like that, little calls here and there. Even, you know, Steve Cooper knocking for, ringing me. Just have conversations, wanting to understand you a little bit more. Feel like it's so... I think, I feel like it's so important.

Steven Bartlett 27:48 Why?

Jesse Lingard 27:49 Because it shows that they care. It shows-

Steven Bartlett 27:52 And when they care, you care back.

Jesse Lingard 27:54 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 27:54 Right?

Jesse Lingard 27:54 Like-

Steven Bartlett 27:55 It's how care works.

Jesse Lingard 27:56 Yeah. Like I want to understand you a little bit more then, you know, as a person. Not just as a manager, as a person. Like how are you... Like how you operate. Not in football. I want to know you outside of football as well. Same with the lads. Like I wanna know you outside of football. I wanna get to know your families. And I think where I learned that from was England with Gareth Southgate. Man management, top. Got to the 2018 World Cup, got to the rooms. See a picture of me and my mum, see a picture me and Marcus. I'm like, "This is like we're home." So that-

Steven Bartlett 28:37 Wait, when you got to your room at camp?

Jesse Lingard 28:39 Yeah, in the hotel. Like, felt like I was at home.

Steven Bartlett 28:43 He

Steven Bartlett 28:44 really has got the best out of England. In my, in my lifetime, in the 30 odd years that I've lived, I've never seen an England side that looks so happy and cohesive and honestly ego free.

Jesse Lingard 28:55 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 28:55 Um, and then it's showing in the, in the tournaments we're playing. We have hope. Like I was at, I was out in Qatar and I wa- I was at this, in the stadium for the England France game.

Jesse Lingard 29:03 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 29:03 And even though we lost, it, I, I walked away happy-

Jesse Lingard 29:07 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 29:07 ... 'cause we're playing great and we, and we're challenging.

Jesse Lingard 29:10 Playing well.

Steven Bartlett 29:10 What, what's he done in your view, um, to that England side to, to create that atmosphere and that culture?

Jesse Lingard 29:18 I just think he understands, you know, us as players. I think when he first came in, he was the first person to give me a debut for England. I played with him at under-21s, you know, understood his values and, and the way he did things. And then, you know, coming into, you know, the senior team, you know, gave me my debut. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 29:37 What are his values, in your view?

Jesse Lingard 29:41 Um, I mean, he cares about the players a lot. And like I say, he wants to understand, you know, the player. Um, you know, so for me, you know, being with him at under-21 level and obviously being with him at our senior team, you know, there's, there's this trust already there anyway. But you know, it takes a lot to, to trust a person and, you know, for someone new coming into the team, um, you know, he still understands the person. And like I say, he wants that trust and the, and the trust back. And you know, you can speak to him about anything. Not just football, you can speak to him about anything.... and, you know, he'll understand and, oh, ask about how- how's your mom, how's your dad, how's every-... Just little things go a long way. And I think, you know, the manaman- man management side of it is, is very important, especially tournaments anyway. But, you know, the group was a collective, you know, understand his, his values and, and the way he does things. Um, you know, so people new coming to the camp, you know, it's easy to sell in straightaway because he'll pull you straightaway and, like, speak to you and sit you down and, you know, talk, just, just talk. And that's it. And I think it's so important.

Steven Bartlett 30:57 What's his, you know, a lot of managers are, are known for, you know ... So Alex Ferguson's, (laughs) one of the trademarks of his style is the hair dryer.

Jesse Lingard 31:06 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 31:06 I know that's kind of, like, over-gassed by the media and stuff 'cause you hear what-

Jesse Lingard 31:08 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 31:08 ... um, a caring man he was, but when you think about Southgate's style compared to these other managers you've had like van Gaal and Mourinho and all and Moyes, et cetera, what's his style, Southgate's?

Jesse Lingard 31:20 It's different but he's still got the, the hairdryer in as well.

Steven Bartlett 31:24 Really?

Jesse Lingard 31:24 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 31:26 Surprises me.

Jesse Lingard 31:27 Yeah, no, uh, it surprises a lot of people. But you need that though, because you don't want a manager who's, you know, nice and lets you, you know, get away with little things here and there. Like, he's o- he's, he's, he's on it. Right? He'll tell you if you're in the wrong or not. Don't matter what, what player you are, who you are, he'll tell you if you're in the wrong or not. But, you know, on the other hand, he still, he still wants to create that good vibe, you know, with the team, and, you know, he'll shout when, you know, it's, it's needed. But most of the time it's just, you know, simple. You can speak to him, you know, he'll speak to the group, um, you know, simple words, you know, "Enjoy the game," you know, "We've been here before. Go out, go out win the game, you know, have fun. Do the tactics all in the week." But, you know, to have someone like that, you know, who's a, who's a good guy as well, I think, you know, it goes a long way, especially, you know, with

Jesse Lingard 32:27 the England team. (page turns)

Steven Bartlett 32:28 Quick one. As some of you know, Intel are sponsoring this podcast. And for me, Intel has made the search for a premium laptop so much easier by creating the Intel Evo platform, which is signified by this sticker here in the corner. Laptop designs only receive the Intel Evo badge when they have been tested to pass Intel's own very strict requirements so that they can actually perform as you need them to out in the real world. And the result for me is a premium laptop that can perform everywhere, even w- with my crazy schedule in mind, and most importantly, it can handle multiple tabs open and a battery that really lasts throughout the entirety of my meetings. Whatever you need your laptop for, Intel Evo have you covered. It's a game changer. To find out more and to get your hands on an Intel Evo laptop, go to intel.co.uk/evo and let me know how you get on. (page turns) It is that time of year again where my life becomes incredibly reliant on Huel. I'm busier than ever. I'm trying to be nutritionally complete in all that I do. I'm trying to make sure I get all of the vitamins and minerals that I need in my diet. And Huel has been, for the last three and a half years, the primary reason as it relates to my diet that I've been able to be nutritionally complete while also being incredibly productive. They've also been a sponsor of this podcast since we launched the podcast. And so I owe them a huge debt of gratitude for enabling this show. And in fact, when we hit the million milestone on YouTube with this podcast, I sent it to the founder because, um, I've never shared this before, but he actually said to me when I started the podcast, he was like, "You're gonna absolutely kill it. You'll have millions of subscribers. You'll be this big, you'll be that big. You'll... So many people will listen." And I don't know if I believed it, if I'm being completely honest, but he believed in us and this show, um, before we'd released one episode, which is a remarkable thing, and he gave me a huge amount of self-belief in myself. So thank you Julian Hearn for that. But also thank you Huel for creating a product that has helped me and helped my health stay intact in my busiest days over the last couple of years. Back to the episode. (page turns) Why did

Steven Bartlett 34:20 Manchester United not reach the levels on the pitch during that era? 'Cause, uh, when I look at the players that we had, I mean, fucking hell, we signed some unbelievable players. Like, it's not, uh ... People often criticize the Glazers for l- lots of reasons, but when you think about the money spent on players on the pitch-

Jesse Lingard 34:35 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 34:35 ... we spent the money.

Jesse Lingard 34:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:36 It's like almost a billion. I think it's almost a billion-

Jesse Lingard 34:38 Billion, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:39 ... billion we spent in players in that period, yet we couldn't, we couldn't seem to win. We couldn't seem to get that cohesion right through that sort of van Gaal-Mourinho era and even the D- David Moyes era.

Jesse Lingard 34:48 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 34:49 Um, what's your assessment on why that is? Like, what, w- why wasn't it ... (snaps fingers)

Jesse Lingard 34:54 I just think it didn't click. Of course we won ... You know, with van Gaal, won the FA Cup, Mourinho, Europa League, Carabao Cup.

Steven Bartlett 35:03 But these cl- these world-class players are coming to United, and I'll be honest, they're looking average. So they, they would come from a club where they were banging, and, and me and my friends, we celebrate in our Manchester United chat. We're like, "Here we go, lads." (laughs)

Jesse Lingard 35:13 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 35:13 Every year. And then they'd, it's like they become half the player.

Jesse Lingard 35:19 It's strange because a lot of players have come in and failed. Like I say, oh, you know, Alex in training, phew, top. Like this, this, this-

Steven Bartlett 35:29 Sanchez?

Jesse Lingard 35:30 Alex San- quality, training quality. Then you come to a game, it doesn't click for some reason. don't know. Is it pressure? You know, when I was playing, especially with Rom and, you know, Alexis, we just wanted to enjoy football and... Of course it's gonna be hard to win a Prem when City have, you know, been so dominant for, for many years. But even to win Europa League, you know, Carabao Cup, Community Shield, like, we're winning trophies, but I think when Jose left, then trophy stopped. And that's difficult. Another new manager. It's kind of like you, you have to, like, kind of prove yourself over and over again. It's kind of like, you know, false, like, f- fake promises, really. Like-

Steven Bartlett 36:19 Think that's what the heart of it?

Jesse Lingard 36:21 Yeah. Like, you know, you get the, "Hi. Hi." "You doing well?" Like, you know, "You're playing next game."... that I'm not playing.

Steven Bartlett 36:29 During the, the time under Solskjær?

Jesse Lingard 36:32 Yeah. 'Cause I played at first, and then also-

Steven Bartlett 36:34 Yeah, yeah, box office-

Jesse Lingard 36:35 ... lockdown came.

Steven Bartlett 36:36 When, when Ole first came in-

Jesse Lingard 36:37 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 36:37 ... United were unbelievable.

Jesse Lingard 36:38 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 36:38 You were balling out of control.

Jesse Lingard 36:39 That's what I'm saying.

Steven Bartlett 36:40 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 36:40 And then (inhales deeply) I said to him before the season, "You know, if I don't play X amount of games before December, then will you let me go on loan in January?" He said, "Yeah." So, didn't play, and then January come, West Ham came in and there was still people was, you know, debating, you know, "Is he fit enough? Is he ready to, to go into a team like that and, and start straight away?"

Steven Bartlett 37:03 That nearly didn't happen, did it? It was off and on and off and on.

Jesse Lingard 37:05 (exhales deeply) Honest- (laughs) I was literally with my brother watching Sky Sports News, Dave Moyes on the phone, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm coming, like, I'm there. Like, you want me there, I'm there." Head ruler rings, "No, you're not going there. It's off, it's done." Just crying. Just, I was crying. Me and brother were just crying. Alls I wanna do is play football and I thought... Ed Woodward was, "Right, he's back on now, he's here." Alls I wanna do is play football. Let me, let me just go and play football, please. As soon as I got there, hit the ground running. It's probably one of my best seasons, to be honest. Like, I think nine goals, five assists in... from, like, February to May. I still didn't go Euros after that. And that was my main aim,

Jesse Lingard 37:54 to go Euros.

Steven Bartlett 37:55 How did that feel-

Jesse Lingard 37:55 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 37:55 ... when you found out that you weren't going? After having won it- probably, arguably, your best ever year in football-

Jesse Lingard 38:01 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 38:02 ... before at West Ham, when you were, you know, widely considered to be the most in-form player in the league. How did it feel?

Jesse Lingard 38:12 Heartbroken, because, you know, growing up, I was always want to do re- represent my country and play for England. And to not play the first half of the season, then to go to West Ham and they found out I was in there. Could have easily took it into, into the Euros, but didn't pick me. And like I say, weren't strong enough to probably say, "Look, why am I not picked?"

Steven Bartlett 38:44 Would that have helped?

Jesse Lingard 38:45 Probably, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:46 Do you think?

Jesse Lingard 38:47 To get a, to get a-

Steven Bartlett 38:49 It would have helped you.

Jesse Lingard 38:49 ... a reason out of it, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:50 Yeah. It wouldn't have got you in the team, but it would have helped you?

Jesse Lingard 38:52 Yeah, like, what, what, what could I have done to (laughs) get into the team?

Steven Bartlett 38:57 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 38:58 Shouldn't I have scored 10, 11, 12 goals? I don't know.

Steven Bartlett 39:00 Do you have a suspicion why you weren't picked?

Jesse Lingard 39:04 Hmm...

Steven Bartlett 39:05 You do, don't you? I can see it in your face.

Jesse Lingard 39:06 I don't know, because-

Steven Bartlett 39:08 I can see that smirk.

Jesse Lingard 39:09 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 39:10 (laughs) You do.

Jesse Lingard 39:10 I don't know, because (inhales deeply) I was thinking, off, off form, how, how, how can I not be picked?

Steven Bartlett 39:21 Do you think it could be something else? 'Cause your form, you can't argue with it.

Jesse Lingard 39:26 Can't argue with form.

Steven Bartlett 39:27 You can't argue-

Jesse Lingard 39:27 Can't argue with stats.

Steven Bartlett 39:28 Anything off-

Jesse Lingard 39:28 Stats, stats don't lie.

Steven Bartlett 39:29 ... off the pitch?

Jesse Lingard 39:32 Off the pitch, I was sweet. I was in a good mental space.

Steven Bartlett 39:35 So I don't know what it could have been, then.

Jesse Lingard 39:37 That's what I'm saying, who knows? And maybe one day we'll probably get, you know, the reason. But to this day, (inhales deeply) not sure why.

Steven Bartlett 39:50 In 2019, as, as shown in the documentary, your mother was admitted to hospital. What was, what was, what was the cause of that, of that happening? What was the lead-up of events that sent her to hospital?

Jesse Lingard 40:05 Just the depression. It was just so bad that she couldn't really cope anymore. And I think she needed to go away and get help, but then leaving me with my little sister, who was probably 11 at the time, and, you know, my little brother, who was probably, like, 15 at the time. For me, I was still going through my own things as well, so I weren't really the, the big bro that they wanted at the time. 'Cause they always get, like, the fun, the laughy Jesse, the bubbly Jesse. By that time, I was going through my own, own stuff anyway, so I was just autopilot.

Steven Bartlett 40:47 Your mum's in hospital, you've got two, uh, younger siblings that you're now primary carer of, and how are things going on the pitch? You're saying that you just weren't present on the pitch.

Jesse Lingard 40:57 (exhales deeply) Just weren't there. Like, mentally wasn't there. Like, I'd be on the pitch, but just didn't want to be on the pitch.

Steven Bartlett 41:08 Really?

Jesse Lingard 41:08 Yeah, I didn't wanna play. I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna quit football. I'd never quit football, but I would've needed a break.

Steven Bartlett 41:15 Mm-hmm.

Jesse Lingard 41:15 If lockdown didn't come, would've needed a break, 100%.

Steven Bartlett 41:17 And is this in, this is in Ole's first year or second year?

Jesse Lingard 41:21 Yeah, sort of second year, and I'm just going into games like... just mind blank. Just, just on the pitch, just like, I didn't wanna be there, to be honest. So of course I'm gonna play bad.

Steven Bartlett 41:35 And then you're getting abuse?

Jesse Lingard 41:37 That was kind of what tipped it over, to be honest, after the Derby game.

Steven Bartlett 41:41 What happened?

Jesse Lingard 41:43 So we won, but, you know, as soon as you get on the bus, it's, you know, "Jesse, you're shit." Blah, blah. Like, "Why are you playing for us?" Blah, blah. And to be fair, Luke Shaw backed it, to be honest. He came down off the bus and, like, started shouting at him, arguing, whatever. But don't know if it was Derby fans or United fans, but, like, I'm human. Do you know what I mean? Of course it's gonna affect me. Like, I'm already down enough anyway. I'm already going through things what you don't know about, and I've got to perform on a weekly basis. And when you're performing, you're not performing at, at 100%, so of course there's gonna be critics and, you know, you're not playing that well. You know, but to be abused like that?It's kind of- (sighs) kind of what tipped it, to be fair. That was like... I was like, "Nah, I can't, this is... I can't be arsed anymore." Like, I need, I need a break. I need to find something, some motivation, some fire in my belly again to get going again because, you know, I can't, I can't be doing this, like... And there'll be another game next week and I'll be like, "Oh," like, psh, "Can't be arsed, man. I can't, I don't wanna play." Just during that time, that, that time period of everything what was going on, Mum, looking after my little brother and sister and that, uh, I felt like I had the world on my shoulders.

Steven Bartlett 43:05 There's this really kinda, like, moving, haunting part in the documentary where I think your bro- your older brother has vi- literally video- videoed you lying on the sofa completely-

Jesse Lingard 43:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:14 ... still. Your eyes are, like, blank.

Jesse Lingard 43:15 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 43:16 Uh-

Jesse Lingard 43:16 That's how I was. Like, even at training, like, just masking it, just tryna, like-

Steven Bartlett 43:23 Masking what?

Jesse Lingard 43:24 Just masking, you know, the depression side of things, the anxiety. Like, I was still trying to be Jesse, like, "Hey," like, banter, banter jokes and that. But, you know, it comes to a point where you actually need to say something because I felt like (sighs) just the world just was on my shoulders and... Had no one to turn to, like couldn't speak to anyone about anything. I didn't want to speak to anyone. I felt, "You know what? I can deal with this. I can handle this. I'm, I'm grown enough to deal with this." But come to a point where it was like, "Look, Ollie, this is what's going on." And we kinda kept it, you know, close-knit, to be honest. But even just to have, like, Ollie say, like, "You know, how's your mum? How's she doing?" Like, I could have a conversation with him, could have a conversation with the doc, have a conversation with the liaison woman and that just helped a little bit more, just having that little bit of conversation and letting people understand, like, what I'm, what I'm going through. And then, I think I did a, uh, I did a piece for the paper, um, you know, talking about it and... I still don't think people really fully understood, you know, what was going on until, until, like, like I said, the documentary came out.

Steven Bartlett 44:36 In order for you to, um, s- be able to have those conversations with the people, you first had to make the decision to, like... For you to talk about how you're feeling 'cause once you open up, then they-

Jesse Lingard 44:46 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 44:46 ... can give you that support. You talked about how it's difficult to do that when you're a young man. Did you realize in that moment that you were suffering with depression? Could you see your- see yourself in your mother or see your mother-

Jesse Lingard 44:56 Yeah, probably, yeah. I think the video sums it up, the one where I'm on the sofa. I'm just, it's... I'm actually laying there for, like, three minutes just, just staring to thinner. I don't know what I was thinking, don't know what was going through my head at the time. But like I say, like, I was, I was, I was drinking, stuff like that, like, before bed, like, having a nightca- and like, look back now, I think, "Well, what am I doing that for?" Like, well, I needed something, so I was trying to take the pain away and, like, put me at ease somehow and, like, try and forget what was going on, but it makes it 10 times worse.

Steven Bartlett 45:32 Do you feel the online criticism? Do you, do you... Are you exposed to it?

Jesse Lingard 45:38 No, I don't read it.

Steven Bartlett 45:39 You don't read it?

Jesse Lingard 45:40 No.

Steven Bartlett 45:41 Have you ever gone on Twitter and looked at what people are saying?

Jesse Lingard 45:43 No. Uh, I think that's the worst thing anyone can do. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 45:48 Some players must do that though, right?

Jesse Lingard 45:49 I think players do it, yeah, but don't know why 'cause... To be fair, I'm strong enough to handle it now.

Steven Bartlett 45:56 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 45:57 Like, hang- I'm strong enough to handle negative comments, criticism, whatever, concentrate on football.

Steven Bartlett 46:03 But there's no point going and searching for it, yeah-

Jesse Lingard 46:05 Point-

Steven Bartlett 46:05 ... in the sewer.

Jesse Lingard 46:06 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 46:06 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 46:06 There's no point. Why, why search for it?

Steven Bartlett 46:08 'Cause I'm thinking about, like, you know, (clicks tongue) we talked a lot recently about players like Harry Maguire being on the receiving end of a lot of criticism and stick.

Jesse Lingard 46:14 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 46:16 In my view, s- most of it's completely unjust, um, but I've always wondered if players actually feel that criticism and it impacts their game.

Jesse Lingard 46:25 Yeah. I think so.

Steven Bartlett 46:27 Can you see that when you're in the dressing room if you know a player's, like, been slammed in the press or online or whatever, can you see th- them drop, like, their head drop a little bit and then s-

Jesse Lingard 46:37 Yeah. They probably try and mask it a little bit.

Steven Bartlett 46:39 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 46:40 Just to, like, be strong, like, "I can handle it." But, som- like, we are human. Of course criticism's gonna affect us, especially when, you know, the pundits are saying it and it's... Especially them, you know, all the pundits saying it more than, you know, a comment on Instagram or, um, or stuff like that on soc- or any, any social media 'cause it gets highlighted more, you know, in the press with, um, you know, a pundit saying it. So, of course you're gonna see it or someone's gonna send it to you. But then, it's kind of masking it, trying to be strong, and then you gotta go and perform. But I think the majority of players, you know, in this day and age are strong enough to tell no to what anyone says anymore.

Steven Bartlett 47:25 You, you did perform when

Steven Bartlett 47:26 you went to West Ham. You really, really performed as we've discussed. Um, I think a lot of people were expecting you to stay there.

Jesse Lingard 47:31 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 47:32 Because you'd performed so well and it just seemed like you finally found your, your groove consistent. You scored the goals, you got the assists. What was your thinking at that point when that loan comes to an end? Did you want to stay at West Ham?

Jesse Lingard 47:43 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 47:44 You wanted to stay?

Jesse Lingard 47:45 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 47:45 Manchester United wanted you to come back?

Jesse Lingard 47:48 Yeah. So I had a year... Yeah. I was, I wa- I went into my final year after that then.

Steven Bartlett 47:54 Mm-hmm.

Jesse Lingard 47:55 And I still wanted to go on... (sighs) I wanted to go on loan in Jan 'cause I weren't playing again. So, Newcastle was on the cards in Jan. Deal was done, everything. Obviously, U- the United squad weren't big enough. So let a couple players go out on loan and then when it come to me, (clicks tongue) John Murtough rang me. He was like, "No. Like, you're not going on loan." I was like, "Um..." Well he's gone on loan, he's got... Let, let me go and enjoy if I'm not playing here, so let me just go on loan. Right, let me play football."

Steven Bartlett 48:29 To Newcastle?

Jesse Lingard 48:30 Yeah. And, um, he was like, "What do you want, days off?" I was like, "No, I just want to go and play football." Right. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 48:37 What do you want, days off?

Jesse Lingard 48:38 Yeah. So this is the whole thing what happened.So then, they stopped the loan. Obviously, I was pissed. Um, and then when he said about the days off and that, I messaged him. I was like, "You know what? I wanna take two days off now just 'cause you said that." So then they put out, um, Jesse's asked for two days off, and the media, "What?" Went on Twitter straight away, "No, I didn't ask for two days off. He asked me if I wanted days." I, I just put, I just put it out there, the facts.

Steven Bartlett 49:12 How, how, h- what was the dressing room like at that point? You know, when... 'Cause a lot of players were... Obviously, when Ole... Ronaldo comes in, obviously, Ole eventually ends up getting fired, et cetera, et cetera. Um, it did feel like... You know, they use this phrase, "Oh, the managers lost the dressing room." Or there's... From a fan looking in, you could just see that there was something wrong with the culture at the club.

Jesse Lingard 49:32 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 49:32 Players would come in there that were world-class, as we said earlier, world-class elsewhere, come in, they were becoming fucking average players.

Jesse Lingard 49:38 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 49:39 You've got all of these, these rumors leaking. You've got all of this stuff happening. Players at the club feeling like their trust has been broken. Like you said, you've been lied to a few times.

Jesse Lingard 49:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 49:46 It just felt like some-... There was no... Someone didn't have control of the place.

Jesse Lingard 49:49 No, they weren't. There was no control, I don't think. Like you say, when Sir Alex was there, it was full control.

Steven Bartlett 49:55 Like a fortress. Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 49:57 A fortress. Everything goes through him, contracts, everything, like commercials, like everything. Of course, generations change. Players grow up. People have a voice. But, like you say, when things are getting said about you that's not true, you're gonna voice your opinion. Like I say, it w- wouldn't happen back in the day. It'd be squashed there and then with Sir Alex. But like you say now, people have got platforms to, to voice their, their own opinion and write what they want.

Steven Bartlett 50:28 Do you think players have lost, lost respect? Not in this sort of, um, Erik ten Hag era, but just in that period that followed through these managers in the, the Solksjaer era? Do you think players, from what you'd seen, had kinda lost respect for the club?

Jesse Lingard 50:40 Probably, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 50:41 It looked like that?

Jesse Lingard 50:42 Yeah, probably.

Steven Bartlett 50:43 It looked like this wasn't the, the same old Manchester-

Jesse Lingard 50:47 Yeah, there's no control.

Steven Bartlett 50:47 Y- no, c- control, right.

Jesse Lingard 50:49 There's no, there's no structure. There's no, there's no balance. People are doing what they want, pretty much, on it. It's like, it's like a free-for-all.

Steven Bartlett 50:55 Free-for-all?

Jesse Lingard 50:57 Yeah, it's just a free-for-all. I mean, like you say, people saying stuff on, like... That's never happened ever at United. People are saying stuff on Twitter, and it happened with Paul and that, E- as well. Like he got a lot of scrutiny. You know, guy's one of the best midfielders in the world. Like, I've known him since, like, '16. Like the ki- kid's got talent, man. Like, he's, he's one of the best midfielders in the world, and still he can't perform at United. So (laughs) so there's something wrong in some way. If you've got one of the best midfielders in the world, he can't perform. And then during the season when he have... He had an international break and he goes to France, and you see how he plays with France. It's like-

Steven Bartlett 51:46 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 51:47 ... guy is sick. And come back like... Play with Alexis and that. I told you. Don't know what it is. I don't know what... I ca- I can't say what it is. I don't know what it is. I enjoyed my time under Jose though. Like, I'm, I had, had one of, one of my best seasons under Jose there.

Steven Bartlett 52:02 I was gonna s- gonna say that. Of all these managers, van Gaal, you know, Mourinho, Ole, in a... And Moyes in a post-Sir Alex Ferguson era, when did it most feel like there was control, and that United were starting to be more like United?

Jesse Lingard 52:15 Um, probably van Gaal, to be honest.

Steven Bartlett 52:17 Really?

Jesse Lingard 52:17 Yeah. He, he had a structure. Like everyone understood what he wanted. Like some people didn't like... I, I love van Gaal. Um, very tactical, knew how I wanted to play, and everyone bought into that. And then, of course, Jose, best manager in the world, just wants to win. But like you say, had that man-management as well, and had the belief in me and the trust in me to, to perform. Like I say, I had one of my best seasons under, under Jose. That's how I went, went to the World Cup.

Steven Bartlett 52:52 If you could wave a wand then, if I gave you a wand, then I said, "Okay, in that Ole era, in that post-Alex Ferguson era, do one thing to fix the club's issues," what would you have done? What would that one wish have been?

Jesse Lingard 53:06 Do you know what it is? I think, like, they're so behind on, like, with everything. Like, you see, like City's facilities, you see Tottenham's facilities when we go there, like with England and that, when we train at Tottenham, like... Like people are miles ahead. Even like, like the social side of things and that, I went to him in like 2017 about, like, YouTube, and let's do, like, content. Like, they're so behind on everything. I, I just want them to just get up to date on like the new things that are happening, like the things that are popping.

Steven Bartlett 53:39 Why does that matter?

Jesse Lingard 53:40 'Cause you gotta be relevant. You gotta stay relevant.

Steven Bartlett 53:43 But in terms of, like, the training ground... Now, obviously, Ronaldo, in the Piers Morgan interview talks about-

Jesse Lingard 53:47 Mm-hmm. They're the same.

Steven Bartlett 53:48 ... the jacuzzi and the-

Jesse Lingard 53:49 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:49 ... the, the chefs and the food and the facilities and the weight-training equipment, the gym-

Jesse Lingard 53:53 And he left years ago.

Steven Bartlett 53:55 Yeah.

Jesse Lingard 53:55 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:55 He says he came back and it was all the same.

Jesse Lingard 53:57 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:58 What... How does... What impact does that have on you as a player?

Jesse Lingard 54:01 You want the best things. You want... Especially being at... Like, United is one of the biggest clubs in the world, so, you know, you want the best for the best. And you know, of course, you want the best food and, um, you know, you want a swimming pool and a jacuzzi and a sauna, which is... It's still there, but, you know, it's like... Mm, it's a bit... Bit, bit more modern, like, you know, modern- modernize 'cause like you see, like, you know, City's facilities and that. And, like, you think like, "When, like..." Just, like, get up to date, like catch up a little bit, like, 'cause, like, you're way behind at the moment.

Steven Bartlett 54:38 Is it, is it a symbolic thing? Like, as in, it's just a... It's kind of a symbol that you're not keeping up with the other clubs. That you're not investing in the, in the small stuff.

Jesse Lingard 54:46 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 54:47 Which as a player you go, "Well, then."... well, we're also behind on the pitch and we're just behind.

Jesse Lingard 54:52 Just behind in general because, like, back in the day, we used to have a, like, table tennis table and, like, um, like, pool and everything. So, like, it would keep you, like, mentally, you know, happy and, you know, we had a dart board and stuff like that, but not anymore. Like, there's, there's, like, no games room or nothing and, like, you just, you go in, you train and you go home. Sometimes you are, like, stay at the training ground sometimes. You know, play darts with the lads and, you know, play table tennis with the boys and that. But it's just, like, like I say, they just need to catch up a little bit more and, and become a little, a little bit more modern. Of course they changed, like, the canteen and that, but, you know, to, to be relevant and to stay in this day and age, you know, you've got to be more, a little bit more modern.

Steven Bartlett 55:43 Is that because of the, the ownership? Is that the, like, the people at the, the top of the club just don't understand what's important for the, for the players? Because they're s- they spend their money on players.

Jesse Lingard 55:52 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 55:52 But to hear that they didn't spend the money on things behind the scenes kind of speaks to the fact that ... I dunno, 'cause Sir Alex Ferguson probably could've called the shots back in the day and they said, "We need this."

Jesse Lingard 55:59 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 56:00 "We need this, we need this, we need this, we need this."

Jesse Lingard 56:01 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:02 Whereas these days, the last decade-

Jesse Lingard 56:06 Like, who's calling the shots?

Steven Bartlett 56:07 ... who's calling the shots?

Jesse Lingard 56:07 Oh, you d- we don't know, like ... We don't know what's going on. And, of course, now they want to sell the club. But the fans have been wanting them out for, you know, a long time, but-

Steven Bartlett 56:18 Did the players care? Did the players take a view, do you think?

Jesse Lingard 56:21 Hmm, not really. It was just, like I say, just, uh, just, just behind. We're just behind on a lot of things, um. And like I say, you want, you want that modern, you want the modern things, you want the things that are, you know, popping off at that time. But I don't know, like, who calls the shots about, you know, changing the training ground or, and things like that. But like I say, just, just to catch up a little bit and, and we see what, what City are doing and that. Like I say, fresh training ground, best facilities, no one talking back in the press about the, about the team.

Steven Bartlett 57:03 You, um,

Steven Bartlett 57:04 you, you chose after your time at, uh, um, Old Trafford, after your contract had come to an end, to go to Nottingham Forest. A lot of people were surprised by that. A lot of people would have thought you would've gone to, back to West Ham where you'd had an unbelievable run or even to Newcastle, somewhere like that. Why, why did you choose Nottingham Forest? Newly promoted team, they'd just been promoted, right?

Jesse Lingard 57:24 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:25 Um, why, why n- why Forest?

Jesse Lingard 57:29 I think they showed the love. They showed, you know, the willingness and the hunger to want me. They were gonna fly me here, here, there and everywhere to, to get a deal over the line. Um, things broke down at West Ham, negotiations, which obviously I can't get into too much, but, you know, Nottingham showed the love a lot more than, you know, West Ham. And, you know, when you think about it, you know, I've been at West Ham anyway before, and you expect ... Like, you see what I can do and you see what I've done, so you expect them to be like, "Yeah, like, you know what? Right, we'll show you the love. Like, like, this is the contract, blah, blah. Like, let's negotiate, let's talk." And they weren't like that s- for some reason.

Steven Bartlett 58:18 They didn't want you to sign?

Jesse Lingard 58:19 No, they wanted me to sign, but-

Steven Bartlett 58:20 They just wouldn't give you a good deal?

Jesse Lingard 58:21 ... kind of rush it. It was, like, kind of rushed. Like, it would be like Wednesday and they'd be like, "Sign by Friday." Like, "There's a deal, sign it." Like, "Let's, let's talk, like, you know me." Like, "I'm not-"

Steven Bartlett 58:31 Wanted some respect.

Jesse Lingard 58:32 Yeah, like, "Just, just b- show a little respect, like, I've been there. I've helped your team, like, we got t- got to Europa League. Now show a lot, bit more respect and that." But Nottingham were just like, "Listen, like, we love ya, we want ya. Like, the manager will come to your house, like, the owner wants to fly you to Greece, like, to sign the deal. Like, ev- doing everything in their power to get the, the deal over the line." And, you know, for me it was a, it was a new challenge, different challenge. New different way of team. (clears throat) Of course I've known, I was a b- known United all my life, um ... And I remember leaving, leaving United the last day and the physio that we had from under 18s, obviously is, is with the first team now. He's like, "Remember the FA Cup goal? Remember the Youth Cup, you know, run when you, when you won the Youth Cup? Like, oh, I'll always remember that goal, like the, uh, the F- the FA Cup goal." So I got in my car, yeah, t- started crying. Just, just started bawling, crying, like, all the way home. Drove home, yeah. I rang my brother, I was like, "Oh, it's actually leaving, you know, leaving, leaving." Crying all the way home and that. And I couldn't contain my emotions and that, and then, like, it lasted a long time, like, I've been there all my life. Like, I know everyone in the club from, like, staff, kit men, dinner ladies. You know, Mike Glenny who scouted me, you know, to United and, like, that, that's been my life, United.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:06 How did you feel about the club when you left it? Did you feel let down, like disappointed?

Jesse Lingard 1:00:10 Yeah, a little bit. Like I say, false promises here and there. Not really give you a reason why, you know, you weren't playing. So yeah, kind of let down to be honest. Like I say, didn't really get a send off. Been there that long, I think I deserve one.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:28 But when you get in that car or you, when ... You know, I've been in the moment as well where I've, like, I've, you know, quit my business that I'd started seven years in when there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of employees. And my first reaction, I've got to be honest, was like, I was, I was like ... When I knew I was gonna quit, I was so mad and I wrote this email and it was kind of bitter and whatever else, but when I realized I was actually going to send this email, there was this little pause.

Jesse Lingard 1:00:47 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:48 And this is when I was in, I was in Portugal at the time and I got really emotional.

Jesse Lingard 1:00:51 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:52 'Cause it w- that's when you look back and go, "I'm actually going here."

Jesse Lingard 1:00:56 ... yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:56 Like-

Jesse Lingard 1:00:56 It hits you.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:57 ... it hits you, yeah. It's all said and done now.

Jesse Lingard 1:00:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:59 And I'm, I'm leaving. And so I r- redid the email, and it was, like, a really nice one.

Jesse Lingard 1:01:03 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:01:03 It was like a thank you- (laughs)

Jesse Lingard 1:01:04 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:05 ... to, like, the, the board and stuff for, for taking the chance on me and stuff, so. Yeah, it's h- it's tough, tough though, because-

Jesse Lingard 1:01:11 (that) That was tough. When he said that, when the physio said that, (exhales) I was gone, I was gone. Crying all the way home in the car. And people don't know that. Like, people probably thought like, "Oh, yeah, he's, ah, he's happy to leave." But I needed to leave. Like, I wasn't playing, so why am I gonna s- like, I got offered a contract, but what's the point? Like, I'm not gonna play, so I wouldn't rather, like, yeah, biggest club in the world, but happiness is more important for me and, um, I needed to be happy and (clears throat) go somewhere where I'm loved and...

Steven Bartlett 1:01:46 It's been a difficult start to the season for Nottingham-

Jesse Lingard 1:01:48 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:49 ... on the pitch. Um, as we sit here now, I believe they're in the relegation zone-

Jesse Lingard 1:01:55 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:56 ... in the table. What's your, what's your view on the start of the year for Nottingham?

Jesse Lingard 1:02:02 I think it's always gonna be tough, especially with new players coming in, I think, 22, 23, come out.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:08 Yeah, crazy.

Jesse Lingard 1:02:10 So it's always gonna be tough, but I feel like, (clears throat) I feel like especially the Tottenham game, the Palace game, you know, we started getting a bit more momentum. Everyone knows, you know, their roles and responsibilities now. We played e- with each other, um, you know, a lot more and, you know, we understand each other a lot more. So I felt like, you know, the connection was there, especially Tottenham and the Palace game. And then obviously now we've had a break, but I think the break can do us, do us good to regroup and, you know, really, you know, reevaluate and, you know, see what, what the main aim is for the season. And, you know, of course, we don't wanna be in relegation zone, you know? We want to be winning games and away we need to do a lot better, because, um, you know, we're struggling away from home at the moment. But, you know, home games can be really crucial and key, because the atmosphere is (sighs) it's nothing I've, like, I've never heard it like it before. I've never been in an atmosphere like that. Before the game, like, it's a joke. I get goosebumps every time. And I feel like we need to really, I think just dig deep. I think everyone knows what, the situation we're in anyway and just about, you know, maintaining, keep working hard. Of course, the attackers have got to score and, you know, we've got to do our job. Um, and you know, it's n- it's different for me because, you know, I've been playing at United and, you know, of course, we have all the ball and, you know, we're getting shots and chances and that. Of course, it's gonna be difficult at, at Nottingham where, you know, you might not see the ball as much and you're not getting as many shots and you're not creating as many chances. But, you know, I thrive off these moments and these, and these challenges. It's, it's a new challenge, and you know, I'm happy to be there. Um, you know, I love training, love, love playing, playing in the games, and that's the most important, is just to be happy

Jesse Lingard 1:04:01 for me.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:02 Off the pi- off the pitch, you know, you're 29 now. Players, I think, the, the average age of a player usually goes, I don't know, 32-ish, I don't know. What are you thinking about off the pitch? What's going on in your world? I know you've got your, you've got your brand, You're doing several investments and sort of deals. You've got a media company. Give me a, a view of what, what that looks like.

Jesse Lingard 1:04:23 That's it. Even at United, I've always, you know, off the pitch, I've always, I'm always on the go. Always wanna know what the next thing is to do. What's the next investment? What can I be involved in? What can I do? E-sports comes, gaming, love gaming. (smacks lips) A sports team, let's do a sports team. Brand, love fashion, let's do a brand. At the launch, the brand was like, (sighs) was amazing. I think like 3,000 people turned up at Victoria Warehouse. And then at the nighttime, Lil Baby was there. We got Lil Baby to perform. And he weren't even big, big then. Um, but I just wanna, I just wanna be happy and do things that I wanna do to make me happy. And, you know, the investment and the business side of things, of course, I wanna set up things for my little sister, for my little brother, for my daughter when she grows up, that they can just go into straight away. And I think with the media company, um, it's called One Touch. Guess why it's called One Touch?

Narrator 1:05:31 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:05:32 Uh, (sighs) 'cause you used to play one touch with your grandad?

Jesse Lingard 1:05:35 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:36 (laughs)

Jesse Lingard 1:05:36 So I named it One Touch. Um, and obviously the Channel 4 documentary came from, from that. And I feel like it's just easier, because if I do a commercial now, say I do, um, JBL commercial and they're getting the production and I can be like, "Well, you, you can use my production then."

Steven Bartlett 1:06:01 (laughs)

Jesse Lingard 1:06:03 Like, the talent can get paid, um, p- productions even get paid at the same time. So it's a win-win. And all the con, like, anything that we do, that we, um, video or record, we get la- like, final say-so anyway. So it's all under our umbrella. And like I say, after football I wanna go into acting. So maybe starting this now and maybe start doing a little bit of voiceover work and like, you know, the animation kinda thing. Um, but I need to take drama classes. I've not done that yet.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:37 Why acting? So when you think about a- your life after football, some people think about being a pundit or a manager or a coach, whatever. You're thinking acting?

Jesse Lingard 1:06:44 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:44 How come?

Jesse Lingard 1:06:46 I just love films, man. I just, I've always been a big film lover. And, (sighs) you know, to be involved in, you know, a film or a series would be, you know what, would be amazing and-... like I say, I needs to, to really, you know, home in on, on the drama side of things and, you know, learn li- I'm, I'm really bad with lies, to be honest. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:12 What would be your dream role? Have you got an idea in mind for what-

Jesse Lingard 1:07:17 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:17 What kind of, like, acting? Just give me an example.

Jesse Lingard 1:07:22 I think I'd start comedy.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:23 Comedy.

Jesse Lingard 1:07:24 I think I'd start comedy first. And then, you know, when you see the Interstellars and the Inceptions, (exhales sharply) them kind of roles. But that's gonna take time. Like, you're not gonna be, you're not gonna be thrown in straightaway. (inhales deeply) Maybe a bit part here and there. But, you know, for the, for the, for the future with, (sniffs) with the media company, we've got so many things, you know, in, in, in the lineup. (sniffs) And obviously, it's based in LA and that's where, eventually, hopefully, I wanna finish football.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:56 You wanna finish in America?

Jesse Lingard 1:07:57 Yeah, I think so.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:59 At the very center of your documentary is the story of your mother. I found this wonderful picture. What does she mean to you?

Jesse Lingard 1:08:16 (smacks lips) Nah, she's everything, mum. (sighs) (exhales sharply) Like, she's been through it, mum. She's been through it and, (sighs) you know, to see where sh- like, where she is today from where she was, huge progression. I'm so proud of her. And it can be hard 'cause she's had depression for years and years and years. I like to say having me probably made that worse for her, 'cause she couldn't probably handle, you know, being a mother at that time. But luckily, we had, you know, my mom and my grandad there to support us. But she-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:14 What do you, what do you want for her?

Jesse Lingard 1:09:20 I just want, I just want the best for her. I want, I want her to see, you know, her, her kids grow up. I know she's so proud of me of, you know, how far I've come. You know, she'll still message me if I've had a bad game or a thing like that, which is good. Same with like my grandad, same with my dad, same with brother. Um, but yeah, she's been through it, but I just want the best for her. I, and like I say, I wanna, you know, keep her in this lifetime long enough to, you know, see me progress, see Hope progress into the character that, what she's gonna turn into, 'cause she's a character at the moment.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:02 You're proud of her?

Jesse Lingard 1:10:04 Mum? Yeah, massively. Massively.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:08 How come?

Jesse Lingard 1:10:11 Just, uh, from sitting in bed, you know, at the age that I was there, probably, or maybe a little bit older, not being social, to FaceTiming me every day and ringing me every day and, "Jess, what you doing?" And how it... (exhales sharply) I love that. And I think my little sister, like, sh- she's 14, but she's g- sh- acts like she's 18. But I think she, she helps my mum as well a lot, which is good 'cause my mum never really had someone to, like, lean on. Like, not even my nan, like, not even my grandad, really that much. Like, she's, she's not really had, like, a, a proper friend to lean on, you know, in times of struggle. But I think having Daisy there, you know, my little sister, you know, she's, she's really helped my mum. And I think my mum, you know, thrives off that. And like I say, we're, we're, we're both daft. We're all daft.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:15 (laughs)

Jesse Lingard 1:11:15 Like, we do ... Like, honestly, if you had a, if you had a camera in our house, honestly, it's just, it's, it's 24/7 carnage.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:24 (laughs)

Jesse Lingard 1:11:24 Honestly.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:25 I believe you.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:26 We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest without knowing who they're leaving the question for. Um, the question that's been left for you is, what are the uncomfortable things that you banished to the shadows, which means kind of put in the shadows, which would improve your life if you integrated them?

Jesse Lingard 1:11:49 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:11:50 Basically means, what are the things that you put in the shadows that would improve your life if they weren't in the shadows, I guess?

Jesse Lingard 1:11:58 So, I think just to question things a little bit more because, you know, growing up, I've n- I've nev- I never do that. Like, I've been put in situations where I could question things, like, "Go and ask a question." They don't actually not get, but I'd never done that. And, you know, it's only taken me all these last couple years where, you know, kind of finally, like, man up and, you know, be strong enough to ask a question. 'Cause sometimes, like sometimes, it can take time for, you know, a person to, you know, to grow up and, you know, be a man. But, you know, having my daughter, like, changed a lot of things. And you know, like I say, if things don't go our way, of course I'm gonna question, you know, things. But back in the day, I would never.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:51 Well, Jesse, thank you. Thank you, um, for so many reasons. You've given me so much joy as a Manchester United fan, um, over the years. I've, I've, you know... Not just because of your off the field, on the field performance, but just generally, like, the personality you've brought into the game and the happiness you bring to, to your game. Um, but also, the documentary you've released on Channel 4-... is incredibly important, incredibly inspiring, because it's starting a new wave of conversation around players' mental health-

Jesse Lingard 1:13:15 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:15 ... and really a call for empathy, because we never, as fans, know what's going on out off the pitch, behind the scenes. And to have a view into that puts, puts things in perspective. It kind of turns the lights on. And when you can see that full picture-

Jesse Lingard 1:13:28 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:28 ... hopefully people will realize, as you've said, that y- you're, you're players, you're not robots. And that even one comment or one thing happening at home can, like all of us, like the rest of us human beings-

Jesse Lingard 1:13:38 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:38 ... can have a really debilitating impact on us, our mental wellbeing, and h- and how we perform. And that's a really important conversation, one that you didn't need to, to start, one that you could have very easily just kept to yourself. And it's, um, tremendously strong, uh, uh, contrary to popular opinion, um, to speak out like that, especially when you're a man and it's not so easy to do so-

Jesse Lingard 1:13:57 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:57 ... because of s- the stigma.

Jesse Lingard 1:13:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:58 So thank you for that. That's incredibly important. And I'm exceptionally excited to see, um, the next ch- chapter of your life play out at Nottingham Forest, but then much further on beyond as you, as you embark on a, a new career in a different industry. Thank you. It means a lot to me that you've come here today.

Jesse Lingard 1:14:11 No, appreciate it, Stephen.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:12 Pleasure to meet you.

Jesse Lingard 1:14:13 Thank you very much.

Narrator 1:14:13 (Instrumental music)

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Narrator 1:15:14 (Instrumental music)