The Diary of a CEOJordan Peterson: How To Become The Person You’ve Always Wanted To Be | E113
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:30
Introduction: Why Peterson Matters to Bartlett and His Audience
Steven Bartlett frames Jordan Peterson as a uniquely truth-driven thinker whose work has changed millions of lives, including his own. He credits Peterson with teaching him the centrality of truth in personal and professional success, setting the tone for a deeply personal and philosophical conversation.
- •Bartlett asks listeners to subscribe and introduces Peterson as one of the most requested guests.
- •He describes Peterson’s appeal as his commitment to saying what he believes is true, rather than what is acceptable.
- •Bartlett shares that Peterson’s ideas about truth and authenticity fundamentally reshaped his own life and podcast approach.
- 3:30 – 7:10
Persona, Authenticity, and Building Real Relationships
Bartlett recounts how dropping his 'mask' in relationships made them more authentic, prompting Peterson to unpack the Jungian concept of the persona. They explore why a social mask is necessary but dangerous if it replaces the real self, and how truth transforms connection.
- •Bartlett admits he used to act as who he thought his partner wanted him to be.
- •When he began speaking honestly—even while leaving the relationship—the connection deepened dramatically.
- •Peterson defines persona as a functional social shell that becomes harmful when it’s all there is.
- •He stresses that genuine intimacy requires revealing underlying uncertainty and inadequacy, not just projecting strength.
- 7:10 – 12:00
From Role-Playing to the Adventure of Your Life
Using Pinocchio and Jung, Peterson explains how people unconsciously act out myths and roles written by forces they don’t understand. He contrasts living as a puppet or actor with the 'adventure' of a truthful life rooted in humility and confrontation with personal inadequacy.
- •Metaphor of Pinocchio as both puppet and actor: who wrote your role and who’s pulling your strings?
- •Social media personas often mask insecurity while conforming to perceived external expectations.
- •Everyone lives out a story—possibly a tragedy or narcissistic script—often unconsciously.
- •Truthfulness requires facing one’s flaws and limitations in humility, a painful but necessary step toward a meaningful life.
- 12:00 – 17:40
Escaping Dead-End Jobs: Strategic Responsibility and Negotiation
Peterson outlines a practical, step-by-step method for young people who feel stuck in unfulfilling work. He emphasizes detailed problem analysis, honest self-audit, building alternative options, and approaching negotiations from a position of strength rather than desperation.
- •Clarify why your job feels meaningless: tasks, boss, coworkers, growth, or misalignment.
- •Update and critically review your CV, distinguishing between real gaps and excessive self-criticism.
- •Actively address correctable deficiencies (e.g., unfinished degree) and prepare credible plans for improvement.
- •Apply to multiple jobs to discover opportunities and gain leverage before speaking to your current boss.
- •When you do negotiate, present a clear value case (e.g., for a raise and progression) backed by outside offers.
- •If your boss responds with contempt, see that as a strong signal to leave.
- 17:40 – 23:20
Self-Awareness, Humility, and Starting with Your Own Room
Responding to a question about building self-awareness, Peterson offers a stark self-questioning exercise and urges people to start with humble, concrete tasks. He links arrogance to neglect of 'trivial' responsibilities and argues that small, honest improvements compound quickly.
- •Self-development is impossible without self-awareness; many don’t know how to begin.
- •The 'bed at night' question: identify one known wrong you could and would fix.
- •Answers emerge if you genuinely want them, but they’re usually unwelcome and humbling.
- •Jung’s idea that modern people 'don’t see God because they don’t look low enough.'
- •Cleaning your room or scrubbing your toilet can be spiritually significant: if you’re above organizing what’s yours, you’ll fail at larger responsibilities.
- •Micro-improvements in neglected areas lead to surprisingly rapid global improvement.
- 23:20 – 29:40
Privilege, Guilt, and the Moral Cost of Being Fortunate
Peterson addresses critiques of 'unearned privilege' by integrating existential philosophy, historical atrocity, and personal responsibility. He argues that while privilege is real and largely unchosen, the right response is to atone through virtue, not resentment or denial.
- •Introduces Heidegger’s 'thrownness': we’re born into arbitrary conditions—talents, culture, class—we didn’t choose.
- •The ground we walk on is 'soaked in the blood of historical atrocity,' implicating everyone spiritually.
- •The 'murderous uncle and the sword' metaphor (from Guy Ritchie’s King Arthur): our tools have been used badly; we may fear wielding them.
- •Peterson: 'The way you pay for your privilege is with your virtue.'
- •Virtue here means truth-telling, respect, order, and dignifying individuals in your actions.
- •Warns against envy and superficial judgments of others’ success (e.g., the man in the Ferrari).
- 29:40 – 37:30
Struggle, Meaning, and Why Happiness Is Not the Goal
Bartlett shares his realization that removing struggle doesn’t bring fulfillment, citing 'gold medal depression' and his own emptiness after a huge acquisition offer. Peterson responds that humans are made for uphill struggle toward ever-receding, transcendent goals, not static happiness.
- •Olympic 'gold medal depression' and Bartlett’s dread when offered a nine-figure exit illustrate loss of orientation.
- •Peterson: we’re built to climb; the satisfaction lies in the ascent, not permanent arrival.
- •Most positive emotion comes from progress toward a valued goal (enthusiasm = being 'filled with the spirit of God').
- •You want a goal you can never fully reach, so the process keeps developing you.
- •Critique of fantasies of permanent leisure: they quickly become depressing infantilization.
- •Video games simulate struggle and progress but are no substitute for real life challenges.
- 37:30 – 47:20
Technology, Remote Work, and the Hidden Value of Embodied Life
Discussing remote work and online education, Peterson acknowledges the efficiency of virtual tools while arguing that we grossly underestimate what’s lost when physical environments are replaced. He uses his own student experiences and current routines to illustrate the irreplaceable role of embodied community and private, offline time.
- •Bartlett fears that remote work erodes one of the last institutions for deep in-person connection.
- •Peterson agrees we don’t understand our embodied contexts well enough to safely virtualize them.
- •University is far more than lectures: it’s peer group transformation, learning to live with others, calibrating work vs. partying.
- •He credits roommates and a 'frat house' environment with teaching reciprocity and responsibility.
- •Virtual tools (Zoom, remote collaboration, language-bridging interviews) are powerful but partial.
- •He shares his personal routine balancing yoga, creative work, walks, breakfast, then limited engagement with the 'connected world.'
- •Argues we need sustainable rhythms including culture (art, beauty, drama) and intimate relationships, not just digital productivity.
- 47:20 – 56:40
Unintended Consequences: Technology, Deceit, and the Pandemic Response
Peterson broadens the discussion to technology’s alienating tendencies and the political handling of COVID-19. He claims much pandemic policy was driven by opinion polls and fear rather than science, warns about overreliance on domain experts, and insists that deceit corrodes the wisdom needed for complex decision-making.
- •Conservative insight: beware unintended consequences; no technology 'just does what we want.'
- •Marx’s concept of alienation and later existentialists’ work show how technology can separate us from meaningful work and life.
- •Peterson stresses: lying warps your orientation mechanism; in a brutal world, that’s extremely dangerous.
- •He says he never saw anyone 'get away with anything' in 20 years of clinical practice.
- •On COVID: suggests overreaction driven by naive fear and polling, not coherent science or clear end-state.
- •Cites misperceptions of hospitalization risk and questions blanket measures like mass lockdowns and child vaccination.
- •Criticizes politicians outsourcing responsibility to 'experts' instead of integrating multiple domains into wise policy.
- 56:40 – 58:50
Why Peterson Rejects Political Power and Focuses on the Individual
Asked what he’d do as 'president of the world,' Peterson declines the hypothetical, reaffirming his lifelong decision to work at the level of the individual rather than pursue office. He outlines how differing temperaments (conservative vs. liberal) are both necessary, and why free speech is the central right enabling society to course-correct.
- •Peterson consistently chooses encouraging individuals over formal political careers, even when courted.
- •Sees politics as subordinate to a deeper, essentially theological enterprise: fostering responsible individuals.
- •Explains temperament-based differences: conservatives (conscientious, orderly) vs. liberals (open, creative).
- •Healthy enterprises and societies require ongoing dialogue between these temperaments.
- •Asserts that free speech is 'the right,' not just another right, because we must constantly talk to navigate an unknown future.
- •Warns that as our technological power grows (AI, 'authoritarian presumptions' in systems), individual wisdom becomes even more critical.
- 58:50 – 1:03:10
Happiness, Suffering, and Being Moved Beyond Comfort
Through a simple check-in question—'How are you doing?'—Peterson gives a candid answer: 'Brilliantly and terribly.' He unpacks why happiness is too shallow a metric, comparing meaningful life to profound music or the blues: a synthesis of suffering and transcendence that is 'better than happiness, but almost unbearable.'
- •Peterson reframes the common question 'Are you happy?' as misguided; a better one is 'How are you doing?'
- •He answers his own situation as 'brilliantly and terribly' to capture simultaneous heights and depths.
- •Compares meaningful experience to complex music: it includes awe, horror, and depth, not just pleasantness.
- •Cites Hank Williams and early blues as examples of simple forms carrying immense emotional weight.
- •Describes meeting people worldwide who were suicidal, nihilistic, or homicidal, and who credit his work with their turnaround.
- •These encounters are both magnificent and agonizing: their triumph always carries the memory of their earlier despair.
- •He insists meaning and gratitude for moments of happiness are more important than chasing happiness itself.
- 1:03:10 – 1:09:30
How to Truly Help Others: Listening, Questions, and Not Owning Their Fate
Bartlett asks how to encourage loved ones out of despair without imposing on them. Peterson answers that we must relinquish the fantasy of managing other people’s destinies and instead help them articulate their own problems and desired outcomes through sincere questioning and attentive listening.
- •Imposing your blueprint on others either steals their victory or distances you from the consequences of their failure.
- •Adopt the clinician’s posture: 'I don’t know what’s wrong with you or where you should go; let’s find out.'
- •Ask genuine, non-manipulative questions, and truly listen—people will 'untangle themselves' if given that space.
- •In arguments, ask: 'If I could say or do something now that would truly satisfy you, what would it be?'
- •If they say, 'If you loved me, you’d know,' counter with humility: 'I’m stupid and ignorant; please help me with the words.'
- •This process forces the other person to clarify whether resolution is possible and what it would concretely look like.
- •He uses Jimmy Carr’s comedy process to illustrate listening: comedians refine material by responding to audience feedback over hundreds of shows.
- 1:09:30
Closing: Why Peterson Does What He Does and Bartlett’s Pledge
In a closing tradition, Bartlett reads a question from the previous guest asking Peterson why he does what he does. Peterson answers that he wants to see what happens when you tell the truth and test his faith that truth, beauty, and love can save the world. Bartlett responds by pledging to live and speak more truthfully as his deepest form of thanks.
- •A previous high-profile CEO guest asks: 'Why do you do what you do?'
- •Peterson: to see what happens if you speak truth and accept the consequences.
- •He frames this as an act of faith: a decision to test whether truth, beauty, and love can indeed 'save the world.'
- •Bartlett expresses that 'thank you' is insufficient and instead commits to a life of greater truthfulness.
- •Peterson notes that at minimum, this commitment will help ensure Bartlett doesn’t make the world worse.
- •They end with mutual appreciation, acknowledging the weight and responsibility of time and influence.
