The Diary of a CEOLewis Capaldi: The Untold Story Of Becoming A Global Superstar At 22 | E178
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,030 words- 0:00 – 2:14
Intro
- LCLewis Capaldi
No one has ever asked me the questions that you've asked me today.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Lewis Capaldi! (audience cheering)
- LCLewis Capaldi
It's getting kind of used to being someone you loved. Releasing new music first time in, like, three years. This time I'm shitting myself.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- LCLewis Capaldi
'Cause I've no regrets. (audience cheering)
- SBSteven Bartlett
I remember that video of you doing your... (laughs) you found out your net worth.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Oh, yeah, yeah. That's 10 fucking million quid sitting about somewhere. Where the fuck is it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
No label would ever tell you that is the strategy to become successful.
- LCLewis Capaldi
You can fully just put a picture of you with a towel wrapped around your head and these stupid glasses on with your top off on a big massive poster on the tube. It's less about being, like, a polished fucking-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... pop star or whatever. People see through that shit.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You are living an extraordinarily un-human life. What is the reality?
- LCLewis Capaldi
I have really bad anxiety. It never reached a tipping point until after getting famous. I fucking hate recording albums, despise doing music videos. I only do all that stuff because playing live is this fucking unparalleled thing that you can't compare to anything else. So, like, when that was making me feel shame, I was like, "Fuck, I dunno if I can do any of this shit anymore." My dad gave me a lift home from the airport one night, and I was twitching like fuck to the point where he started crying in the car. Couldn't concentrate on work I was doing 'cause I was so convinced that I was gonna die.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is the question that no one asks you that would reveal the most untapped answer?
- LCLewis Capaldi
I think-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Before this conversation starts, I've got a favor to ask from you. 74% of people that watch this podcast frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button, and 9% of people haven't yet hit the bell to turn notifications on. The bigger this platform gets, the bigger the guests get. So if you could do me one favor, if you've ever enjoyed this podcast, please hit the subscribe button and turn notifications on. Without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Lewis.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Hello.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you look back, and I was reading about your childhood, I found it really fascinating.
- 2:14 – 5:44
Early years
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you look back at those, um, early, early, early dots that you... I think sometimes in hindsight we can connect and go, "Ah, that was the reason I became the person I am today." Or, "That was a really significant early moment."
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What were those first early dots that you connect and go, "That's why I ended up where I am today"?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Um, I think for me, it's probably... The first one I can remember is, like, being, I remember just being on holiday in France. We used to go on these mad, like, caravan holidays in France. Me and my mum and my dad and my two older brothers and my older sister. And there was like... I dunno, for some reason I had become obsessed with Queen. I must've been like four years old. Um, but, like, we got, like, a CD in the... Like, one of, you know, remember those free CD newspapers, like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... where you would pull out stuff? So we got that, and it had, like, We Will Rock You by Queen on it. And it had We Are The Champions as well. And I remember, like, just I became obsessed with it and I was, like, listening all the way through down to, um, where we, where we were going. So we drove from Scotland to France. So it was like, I just remember listening to that constantly on repeat. And then being... I don't know if I'd ever showed an interest in singing prior to this or being a singer or anything like that. But I remember we were at, like, one of those, like car-, like, a band was playing and it was like a karaoke thing, like one of the family entertainment nights or whatever. And, uh, for some reason I just, like, asked if I could go up and sing, um, We Will Rock You by Queen. Um, and it was glad... And I went up and I did it, and there's a picture of me doing it. Like, as I'm tiny and I've got this microphone, and it's... So I did it and then I think I got a buzz for it or whatever. And for whatever reason, I asked if I could go back up and do another song, and I did another song. And it was like, for me, that's the first kind of memory of, like, this, the... Like, singing and getting a buzz for, like, "Oh, I'm up here and I'm doing this thing in front of people." It's like, again, I- I- I have no other memory of, like, singing prior to that. But this was, like, just the first time I'd ever, like, got up in front of people and sang and been like, "Oh, this is like a, a wee bit of a buzz," like, even at four. Do you know what I mean? Which is mad to think now, but like, um... Yeah, I don't know what sort of possessed me to get up and do it, but it f- it was... So that must've been fucking, I dunno, like, I would've been, like, 2000 or something maybe that, that happened. Um, but yeah, I still don't... I still can't, like, put my finger on why I did it or what, what the reason was for getting up on it, but, um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're four years old?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Four years old. Yeah, yeah. It was, it was a, it was a strange one.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it was like a, like a party or something?
- LCLewis Capaldi
It was like a, like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
A ca-
- LCLewis Capaldi
You go on these fucking... It's kind of like these kind of package holidays that you go on with your family.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
That they have, like, kids clubs and they have, like, entertainment nights, so to say.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Everyone kind of congregates in this theater kind of bit in the middle, and it's like... And then they have a band on and they have, like, I don't know, a fucking puppet show or some shit like that. I don't know. I can't really remember. I haven't, I haven't been back since. So I was-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Okay.
- LCLewis Capaldi
I don't often hang around them.
- SBSteven Bartlett
They've not booked you? (laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
No. Yeah, yeah. They didn't book me back. But, um, but yeah, so then it was like... Um, yeah, it was just that, it was, that was the first time we did it and it was... Yeah, I can't... I can't, I can't put my finger on why.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What were you like at that age, at that sort of under 10 age, in terms of confidence and... Because to say, "Do you know what? I wanna go up on stage and sing in a bunch, a group of friendly strangers-"
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... seems like quite an- an- an abnormal thing for a child
- 5:44 – 15:53
Hypochondria
- SBSteven Bartlett
to volunteer to do.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Totally. Um, I think prior to being, like, 10, and prior to, like... I don't know, yeah, prior to going to high school or whatever and that. And maybe not even, like, that, but like, when I was younger I was definitely quite, like, outgoing, I'd say. Like, I was quite...I remember I watched, um, when I was, like, five, I watched Austin Powers. Like, I was, like, religiously watching Austin Powers. I don't know why my parents allowed me to do that. But, like, I would, like, go to family parties and be asked to recite, like... Remember Fat Bastard out of Austin Powers? Like, the big fat guy that he plays.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
But I'd be asked to, like, recite pa- parts of his thing, and I would do it in front of everybody and all the rest of it. It was... But it was never like... Again, it was never singing. It was just, like, acting the goat and, like, taking the piss. And yeah, like, I would get up and do... recite all these Fat Bastard bits and fricking... Um, so yeah. I was definitely, like, more... I was definitely, like, a, an out- an outgoing kid, I think. Um, I definitely liked to be... I was probably loud, and I kind of liked to be, like... I guess, like, but I, I, I kind of liked people-
- SBSteven Bartlett
The feedback.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah. Yeah. I liked the feedback, I liked people watching me do things. I liked seeing people enjoying something that I was doing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you know why?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Um, I don't know. I, I, it's... It's a strange one, 'cause I, I, I never... I guess I never put much thought into it when I was five or whatever. But I don't know if it's, like... I don't know if maybe, like, making a pa- like, my parents laugh or something made me feel like, "Oh, that's a buzz," or whatever. Or, like... I don't know. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I've sat here with quite a lot of comedians, you know?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Jimmy Carr.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Russell Kane.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Russell Howard. And if... And that's been one of the really fascinating things for me, is, like, trying to find out why, at a young age, they got a real buzz-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... from performing and making people laugh. And then, actually, I think it was Jimmy Carr that said something to me. He said, "Instead of..." You know, 'cause there's this kind of stereotype that you do that because you're depressed.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you're trying to... I don't know. But Jimmy Carr said to me, "When, when you see that behavior in a comedian, don't ask them if they're depressed. Ask them which one of their parents were they trying to cheer up?"
- LCLewis Capaldi
All right. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. It's ma-... It's, it is interesting. I don't know. My parents... When, uh, when I was... I went to a, a therapist a couple years ago who had said my, m- my mum's mum died when I was three of, like, cancer. Not like cancer. It was cancer. (laughs) Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Just for clarity.
- LCLewis Capaldi
So, yeah. Yeah (laughs) sorry about that, um, so... And then a year after, her aunt, like, committed suicide, um, who was... Um, sorry, my mum's sister, my aunt, committed suicide. So, my mum lost her mum and her sister in, like, the s- like, within a year of each other. So, I don't know if maybe that's, like... I'm quite, like, a hypochondriac, and I'm, I'm kind of, like... I always think I'm ill or dying. And when I was younger, my mum used to tuck me in, I used to always be like, "Have you locked the doors?" Like, even when I was, like, four or five or whatever. And a therapist told me that that was kind of, like... That might be because of, like, being exposed to, like, the fact that people are gone. Like, people disappear, people aren't... Like, I was aware of what death was at a young age, so I don't know if maybe that's, like, having seen, like, that sort of sa- like, that sort of, like, profound sadness in my mum when she's, like, lost her mum and lost her sister. I don't know if maybe that's-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was it profound sadness that you saw?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Oh, for sure. Like, I mean, it's, it's, it's obviously... I mean, I can't imagine losing my mum at this... I mean, I'm 25. My mum would have been 34 when she lost her mum. Um, so yeah, for sure. Like, I, I still... I have, like, v- like, vivid memories of, like, going into my mum's room and she was crying in bed. I think this might have been when my aunt died. But her crying in bed and talking about, like... And then being, like, having to tell me, "Oh," like, "Your aunt has passed away," or whatever. Or, like, I just didn't... I wasn't fully aware of what was going on, but I just saw her so, like, heartbroken and so... Yeah, so distraught that this happened. So, I don't know if maybe that's... It's an interesting thought of, like... I don't know if maybe that's fed into it, and, like, me doing anything I could to, like, either cheer them up or distract them or whatever. I don't know. But, um, but yeah. It's an interesting, um, train of thought.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How old were you when that happened?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Uh, I was three when my gran died-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Three.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... and three and three qu- quarters when my aunt, uh, committed suicide. So, I was, I was young, for sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's, uh, it's really... I don't think people realize how much kids can feel the pain of their parents, right?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Totally.
- 15:53 – 29:03
Panic attacks
- LCLewis Capaldi
um, that yeah, that, that, that, that, that I was going, that I was gonna be over and I was gonna have to go to hospital. I was gonna pass out or have a seizure. I've never done... None of th- that has ever happened to me. I've, I've ne-, I've, touch wood, never been in hospital for anything serious. I've never broken a bone. I've never had any major... I've never had a surgery. I've never had any major illnesses or anything like that. Um, I've, at, at school, when I was in primary school, I never missed a day off. I never had a day off. I was always... Never had... I was never ill. Um, secondary school, I was off ill once. Like, so it wasn't like, it wasn't like, um, I had cause for any of this. It was just, like, in my head, just thinking. And, and I think maybe that's a thing as well of, like, I don't know if that maybe never actually being ill, I didn't know what being really ill felt like. So my mind-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... would co- maybe, maybe conjure something up in that respect. But, um, but yeah, no, at the school it just became... Sometimes it could become, like, just really, like... Again, at the time I didn't understand it. And, and the symptoms of anxiety, like being dizzy and fucking... I used to kind of always go, like... (inhales deeply) I used to take big, deep breaths like that, um, all the time. And, and, and I used to make this noise, which I still make when I go like, "Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm." Um, and it's like I fi- uh, so basically, now looking back, I realize that's all anxiety. And I actually got diagnosed with Tourette's, like, two months ago or something like that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah, yeah. Which was, which was, uh, to me made... When they said it, I was like, "Oh, that kind of makes fucking sense." 'Cause I always thought Tourette's like fucking swearing and that. I'd never realized it could just be, like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ticks.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... ticks, bodily thingies. But, um, so I kind of... Yeah, as I say, like, looking back, I now realize that it was all anxiety. But if I thought I had a brain tumor and I was like, um, and I was, like, worrying about it so much and getting anxious that I was dizzy, that would then feed back into the, "Oh, I've got a brain tumor 'cause I'm dizzy all the time. Why else would I be dizzy?" Do you know what I mean? It even got so bad a couple of years ago, um, that I paid, I went and paid for an MRI scan, canceled. I was meant to play Austin City Limits Festival, um, in Austin. And I just had to cancel the trip 'cause my anxiety about, "I think there's something seriously wrong with me."... it got so bad that I was like, "I can't get on a plane and go to Austin and be away from home. I need to go get an MRI scan and I need to fucking really see what it's on about." So I went and got it, and obviously there was nothing in my head. That was fine.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And no one can talk you out of those. When you're in that moment, call your mum, you call your friends, you tell people. No one can talk you out of it.
- LCLewis Capaldi
I can do it now because I've, like, done therapies and I've kinda been able to sort of understand my own anxiety and stuff a bit more. Like, that has made it easier for me to kind of talk myself out of these kinda situation, uh, these kind of holes that I can dig myself in my head. My mum's also very good at it. My dad's absolutely useless 'cause-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
... 'cause he's fucking, like, he's anxious himself, like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
He's your wet nurse. (laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
(laughs) Yeah. Do you know what I mean? He's just like, fucking, aye, he's, he's mental. But, um, so my mum, yeah, she's, she's really good at... Like, if I'm having, if I'm having a panic attack, my mum has to... Like, there's nobody else that can, like, talk me out of it other than my mum, for sure. Definitely. Like, and by the way, my mum has had to sleep in my bed as, as recently as, like, a month ago because of how bad my anxiety got at one point. But I think that was, that was alcohol related. I had been on a bit of a bender the couple-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... days before. But, like, it gets to a point where I'm like, "I can't, I just can't fucking..." I can't envision, like, I can't, like, I can't imagine it not being something, like, life-threatening or, like, super serious because of how fucking... Like, sometimes, like, things don't feel real. Someone will say something to me and I won't understand what they're saying. Like, it's fucking... It gets, like, proper, proper intense. Um, but yeah, that's kinda... The hypochondria, as I've got older has, has lessened. It's only when I start to have a panic attack or, like, I start to get really anxious that I'll go, "Right, that's... I'm, I think... So, I'm, I'm dizzy, it's probably anxiety. You're fine." And then there's a voice in the back of my head that goes, "But what if it isn't? What if there's something really wrong with you? What if you're about to pass out?" And then in some situations I just, I get, my head tells me like, "Oh, you're about to have a panic attack, you're going have..." Like, and that is enough, like, that's enough hypochondria, like, you're... It's, it's, it's mad. Um, so it is, it's still something, like, ongoing, like, that I, that I deal with, but, um, it's definitely getting better. I've, I've, I've started taking, like, my medication for it, I'm seeing a therapist more regularly. Um, again, the Tourette's thing was, like, a good sort of allo- like, and it was kind of nice to hear, 'cause I started doing this with my twitch in my shoulder. It's actually okay today. But, um, that became so, like, bad that I was like, "This has to be fucking something serious, like motor neurone disease." Google and all that shit. And like, again, just the wheels starting turning and all the rest of it. So that, finding out the Tourette's thing was fi- was, like, a nice sort of like, "Oh, that's, okay, that's cool." 'Cause I don't mind, like, I don't th- I, I never really think that, like, I have, like, a mental illness of any sort. I just think sometimes I get really anxious and it's fine. Do you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
It's like, it's just one of those things. But I don't see it as, like, this big thing. I- I'm quite like, I'll talk to anybody about it. If I'm having a panic attack in a room, I'll be like, "I'm having a panic attack, by the way. So just do with that information what you will."
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you've said that on stage before.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah, yeah. I've done it on stage. I had a couple of panic attacks on stage. We actually, we played in... We did an arena tour in March 2020, like right up in, like, just before COVID kicked off. And I don't know, it was like, obviously it was like, basically it was kind of the combination of this a- album campaign that we had done for the last record and things were great and it was like, we'd played Australia and done some amazing shows in Australia in January, Europe in February, and then March was come back, like, kind of, nice sort of fucking victory lap. "Look what we've done. This is great. Arenas. Can't believe we're doing this on the first album. Amazing." It was the worst two weeks of my life. Like, it was fucking shitty. (laughs) I hated every minute of it. Like, you, if you look at videos of me on stage, I'm doing this twitch that was so bad that it was just, like it was t- I couldn't speak between songs. I couldn't, I couldn't. I had to stop songs and start them over again. I saw lots of tweets being like, one tweet in particular that was like, "Oh, Lewis is on, is fully on cocaine." Like, fucking there's, like, twitching, fucking all that shit. And then obviously I'm like, "Oh no, people think I'm on cocaine." That feel, feeds into my thing at that time, you know what I mean? I don't... And it was fucking, it was b- it was fucking horrible. And I think I played, the first two shows were in Glasgow. They were like, the first two arena gigs were in Glasgow. And I remember walking out into the, this, it was like a kind of big coliseum thing, The Hydro in Glasgow. And it's like, I remember walking out into the middle of the arena, empty arena, with my mum, my dad and my sister. And looking around and being like, "Oh fuck, this is like..." It was just, I think things had got to a point where they were bigger than, like, I was seeing how big it had gotten. Like, It was the first time I'd... 'Cause the, the way it worked was my songs had gotten... We were kind of always playing catch up with ourselves in terms of the size of venues we were doing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
So like, when we could have done 2,000 cap rooms, we were doing 1,000 cap rooms and then, like, so on and so forth. So it became like, it was kinda nice 'cause I was like, "Oh, this is great." Like, song's flying. Uh, like the next song's doing really well as well. Like, we're playing these nice rooms that the crowds are mental, this is class. And I think, yeah, the, the arena was like, the arena shows were like, "Oh fuck, this is real. This is huge." There's a difference between 2,000... That, that, 'cause that's another thing I've got a bit of an issue with, especially in the UK. It's really hard to go from-... 2,000 capacity rooms to 16,000 capacity rooms. So it's like, there's very little, really in between. With Nine Palate you can do like f- 10, you can do like five places, but it was just like, "Fucking hell, this is like a big jump." And then that thing of like disappointing people who really came out here, and then just like... At, uh, uh, I don't mind support, uh... Becom- being a support act I always loved 'cause if I'm shite no one gives a fuck, 'cause it's like, "Who cares? Who is th-, who is this guy?" Like, do you know what I mean? We did, supported Sam Smith on tour and, like, they were really gracious and had us on and they're, but everyone's there to see Sam. No one's there to see m- me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Like, do you know what I mean? So if I go out and have a shite gig, it's like, "Grand. I'm fucking off, this is great." Do you know what I mean? (thumping sound) So, uh, but when it's like people have bought a ticket to see you, it's not a festival where there's loads of other people on, they're there to see you, it just became quite a, it was quite intense.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How old were you then?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you walked out with your family into that gig and you looked up at the stadium?
- LCLewis Capaldi
(sighs) 23. I was 23.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You were 23?
- LCLewis Capaldi
I was 23 years old. Um, it was m- uh, yeah, it was intense. Uh, I think it's 'cause as well, like, I just maybe th- I think m- in my head I was like, "Oh you, you can't..." It's, I've got a bit, I've got really bad like... And everybody I speak to who's done well at this, like imposter syndrome thing where it's like, "I don't deserve to be doing this. What the fuck? Like, why am I fucking up here doing this? I feel like a fucking absolute..." Like, I don't know, it's just like a fucking, that I shouldn't, I shouldn't be in this position. And I've always had it, and it's like we do the self-deprecating part of like on fucking interviews and stuff, which I do love, it's like take the piss, but like, the, the imposter stuff, n- I had never been more insecure and unsure of myself than after I did really well.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's so interesting.
- 29:03 – 33:53
Being self deprecating
- LCLewis Capaldi
and they think, "Oh, his music's shite." Or they've seen an interview and they think, "Oh, I fucking hate that c- can't stand them." Um, yeah, I don't know, I just always assume that people have got this, um, I don't know, this view of me that they, they maybe don't like. I don't know. Again, I c- I couldn't really put my finger on it why. Like I don't, I don't, I don't hate myself. Like, I think I'm all right. (laughs) Like, do you know what I mean? But I think, um, it's just that, I don't know. I, I don't know if it's maybe that thing of like, uh, being like in pub- in the public eye, like you're so fucking exposed-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... to like all this shit. And it's like... Yeah, it's just a bit, it's a bit of a... I don't know, it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a-
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's a lot, isn't it?
- LCLewis Capaldi
You walk into a room and you feel like, "Oh fuck. This is like..."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you feel like it 'cause, 'cause I'm on, 'cause I've started doing Dragon's Den now, so the podcast was like, you know, big people knew it before. But there's this whole new demographic-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... now, this BBC One demographic-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... where if I'm in the airport I'm, if someone just glances at me, I assume, "Oh, they're, you know, gonna come over and say something-"
- LCLewis Capaldi
100%. Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... or whatever. So you kinda live with this constant paranoia.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're kind of like-
- LCLewis Capaldi
All the time, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you're like, "If I just keep my headphones on."
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
"And I don't, I look at the fucking floor." (laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Then, do you, do you get-
- LCLewis Capaldi
100%, mate, 100%. And it's like that, uh, like that sort of like, yeah, that paranoia-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You feel like you're fucking... (laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
... has like squeezed in. And, uh, don't get me wrong, I love when people come up-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... andI, I, I love taking the piss out of people and I love speaking to people and hearing people's stories about how they love the music or- Yeah. ... like even, I get a lot of people who go, um, "Oh, I think your music's shite, but I think you're funny," and all that stuff. And I'll tell, accept that as well. That's fine. Cool. Um, but- Is it cool? Yeah, I think it's fine. I c- you can't, uh, my music's not gonna be for everybody. I'm s- fully aware of that. My personality's definitely not gonna be for everybody. I'm fully aware of that. I think the fact that people come up... I like the fact that people f- feel that they can say that to me and I won't take offense. You've kind of invited that though, haven't you? Yeah, yeah. 'K- k- 'cause, and I'll, 'cause that's how I am. Like, I'm, you, you would really, really have to say something horrible, but I don't know what you could say to me that I would take offence at. I'm very like, I don't know if it's my upbringing in Scotland or just being Scottish or whatever, like the, the, like I, I don't take offense to things really. Like I've seen some fucking pretty ridiculous things written about me online and on Twitter and all the rest of it, that really does not like... You say you're very self-deprecating. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Of course. Why? Uh, I just think it's funny. I think, I think, but a- again, I think that's a very Scottish thing and that's a very, like we kind of all, uh, well, where I grew up, everyone just took the piss outta each other. It's quite, I dunno (sighs) it's quite a bad thing. Not a bad thing, it's gone... You never feel, you never wanna get ideas above your station. Like they, you never, even when I was starting out in music, I just always, I never thought we'd get to this point or that things would get to this big 'cause I just always thought, "Oh, that, we just, that just doesn't..." I'm thinking it's maybe a bad thing as well 'cause it maybe stops a lot of people from going to achieve things or trying to reach for stuff. Like I, hon- I, I've said before, like if I hadn't met my manager and my label and stuff, I would still be in pubs just playing tunes on the weekend and all the rest of it. It's not like... Or I'd be playing weddings and stuff like that, 'cause I would just not assume that this was on the cards. Um, but I think, yeah, it's, I, I think as well there's something nice in... Don't get me wrong, around my friends, I'm slagging them off like nothing else and they're doing the same with me and it's like a, you kind of figure out like what your flaws are by the way your friends (laughs) , the stuff your friends pick out. And don't get me wrong, like on tour, we say some fucking horrific stuff to each other and we take the piss outta each other and that's all fine 'cause we love each other and it's grand. But like, I think in general if, if I can... it feels better to make people laugh, like at me than other people. Like I would rather make someone laugh at me than grab somebody else and take the piss outta them before. Is there not- Or like ear to ear. ... is there not harm in that- (laughs) ... in self-deprec- Like, because I, I've heard some of the things you said, you know, you said, I mean, I kn- I know they're jokes, but you said things like, "People, women find me equally repulsive in Australia." (laughs) And- Yeah. ... whenever there's, you, you take a shot at yourself. And I, I do wonder 'cause if my, one of my b- good friends was always- Mm-hmm. ... self-deprecating, I would tell them to stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. 'Cause I would be worried that, that those words might knock their own confidence- Yeah. ... or- That's the thing is like, uh, you don't talk, like be nice to yourself. Like that's- Yeah. ... the thing of like, I think w- I've s- uh, you know when you're talking like, if you had like a child, would you want someone to say the things- Mm-hmm. ... to your child that you say about yourself? I get that (laughs) completely and I understand that. But I don't, like, self-deprecate constantly in my private life. Do you know what I mean? I don't like- Yeah. Um, it's something that has become kind of synonymous with me doing interviews and all the rest of it. And I do do it a lot in my private life, but not like, it's not like a constant every sentence-
- 33:53 – 36:23
Comparing the first album to the new one
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm. ... like kind of how it is on interviews and things like that. Do you think it's kind of self-defense in a way from- It could be. Yeah. I think as well, yeah. Like my first album's called Divinely Uninspired to a Hellish Extent, which is like kind of, uh, getting, uh, b- saying my album's shite before a critic can say my album's shite. Um, I think it's like t- it's, it's nice to take the power away from people 'cause it's like, "Well, I fucking said it first." (laughs) Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like, I think it's quite a, it is good. Uh, it is good. Takes the power away from other people I think, in, in that regard. So I, I do think there's probably something in that. But, um, the way, uh, that I g- the way I see it, I don't really feel like it's dragging me d- Like for example, the stuff I say to myself in my head when I'm hungover, that is like damaging stuff. Like that sort of thing of like when you're hungover and you're like kinda just that self-loathing and that sort of like, that's the stuff that if I said to myself all the time, I'd be like, "Whoa, you need to fucking like chill out." Mm-hmm. If it's like jovial and it's never stuff that like I can't change. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? It's not like things like the, um, like if I'm calling myself chubby, that's not like my, I can't, I can do something about that. Like do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs) I'm sure, I'm like not- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? So it's something like, um, like that. There is an aspect as well, like y- you kinda, people, you get to a point, um, in doing interviews, uh, like especially radio stations and that, where you do just say the same thing over and over again. So it is, it's the same in that regard of like, people say it a lot like you're very self-deprecating and it's like, well yes, but these are, I'm getting asked the same questions everywhere I go. So I'm just kinda like rewarding a lot of this- Mm-hmm. ... self-deprecating pattern than, than the rest of it, so... Yeah. I mean, uh, I don't think second time around it's gonna be quite a d- like a, I don't know how it's gonna play. That's what I'm saying about like turning it on again and all the rest of it. Like, it's just, that's, it's gonna be interesting to see like how things play out this time around 'cause it's like, yeah, I'm not just gonna come out and say the same stuff. Um- How do you, how do you feel about the second time around? Um- Give me the full range of emotions. So this is your second- Kinda, yeah. Releasing new music first time in like three years. First time was just a smash mega ultra hit. (laughs) Yeah. Some might call it that. (laughs) Yeah. Um- Yeah. And, um- Fucking crazy. Yeah. It's wild. It's wild. So this time I'm shitting myself. But th- this is the problem I think the nature of the music industry, there's a big problem with... I mean, it's got so much better and I've had a lot of support from everyone around
- 36:23 – 46:42
Questioning what I’m doing
- LCLewis Capaldi
me. No one forces me to do anything. No one really... We, we were able th- this is like-... almost unheard of, but, like, we were able to go away and make new music and bring it to a label and be like, "This is the new music that we're going to put out." And they said, "Great. Thank you. We will now do our job with this." So it's like a lot of people have, like, there'll be an A&R who's quite, "Oh, no, you need to change this, change this." And that we were given, like... The first album,
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... I'm saying that I'm free rein to kind of go do what we wanted to do. People have always checked up on us. But I think in the music industry, and then, well, maybe any industry, it's like you get a number one single and immediately it turns to, "Ah, yeah, but can you do it again?" And then you do it again, and then it's immediately like, "Ah, but how's the album doing?" And it's like, "How are the tickets doing?" There's always something else. The goalpost is always fucking changing. So it's this constant sort of, like, state of, "Fuck, fuck, fuck. I need to, like... right." Uh, you can't... It's like that thing of like... I mean, it's so, uh, uh, spoken about to death, but, like, that thing of not being able to sit back and enjoy it because you're always on the move to the next thing, and on the move to the next thing. And I think that's why, uh, during lockdown I really struggled as well because it was like, "Oh, the next thing, the next thing." And then there, there is no next thing now because we're all in-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... COVID and all that shit. And it's like, "What do you do now?" And then you just, uh, have all this pent-up fucking-
- SBSteven Bartlett
How was that for you?
- LCLewis Capaldi
... anxiety. It was, um, it was intense for sure, because, uh, do you know what? I, k-... When we first got announced that... Well, when COVID first got announced, as if it's a fucking album. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
But, um... (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
Coming this summer. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
But I think, um, when COVID first got, like... kind of when the lockdowns first were announced, we were all fucking, tsk, thingyed out. It was a bit like... I was meant to go on tour to, in America to support Niall Horan.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
But having had just had the fucking horrible experience I had over two weeks, I was in a position where I was, "I don't know if I can perform live anymore without having a panic attack." It was that bad. Every single night, I had a panic attack. I was twitching. It was fucking horrible. People who I knew would be watching the gigs, and they would come back after and be like, "That wasn't... We didn't enjoy watching that gig." Like, "That was really fucking hard for us to see you in that position."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you ever, in those moments, question what you were doing?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah, for sure. But I, I questioned what I was doing a lot in lockdown as well. Like, honestly, it, that... It kind of started with this, like, "Fuck, if this is making me feel this bad..." And that... It was fucking so heartbreaking as well because... Sorry, I keep hitting this mic. But I was so heartbroken about it because playing live was the, is the, the best bit about music. Like, I fucking hate recording albums. It's stressful. It's a pain in the arse. Uh, promo, I kind of... I get to a point where I quite like it and it's kind of, like, fun, but it's not like why I get into it. I fucking despise doing music videos. I hate doing photo shoots, hate getting my photo taken. I only do all that stuff... The only reason I started writing songs was because I thought, "Okay, if I..." Like, people who I was watching, like bands like Green Day or fucking Arctic Monkeys, I was like, "Oh, they write their own songs." So I, if I want to play live, I have to write my own songs. Um, the, th- so, like, the only reason I do any of this other shit or put up with any of this other shit, is because the li- l- playing live is this fucking unparalleled thing that's, that's, th- that you can't compare to anything else.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Takes you back to being four at that karaoke gig, right?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Totally, 100%, and it's that same buzz every single fucking time. Like, do you know what I mean? I mean, unless you have a fucking shitty gig, then it's terrible. But, um, and then you're depressed for, like, three weeks. But, um, yeah, that buzz is just unbelievable. So, like, when, when that was making me feel shit, I was a bit like, "Well, this is fucking horrific." And it was like, "I, I don't know how... If this is making me feel this bad, why continue to do it?" And then at times, making new music and stuff, I was like, uh, uh, when I would get really down on myself, I'd be like, "Fuck, is this actually worth it?" All the rest of it. I never actually got to a point where I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna quit," or, like, thinking... I don't think it was ever something that was seriously in my mind because I've literally never done anything else, and I would be fucking useless at anything else. I'm a lazy cunt. Like, serious. And I know that sounds like I'm being self-deprecating. I, uh, I am, I'm just aware of that as a, a genuine flaw that I am, I'm trying to take the steps to correct.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Are you certain about that?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Honestly, it is so fucking... I'm so bad for just, like... See, like, just sitting on TikTok, fucking scrolling through it now. And it's... And I think as well, getting to the position I got in, off the first album, I was like, "Fuck, now I can, like, really fucking be lazy."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
Like, "Now I can turn this shit fucking right up."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
It was wild. So, like, at p- at points I was just like, "Fuck, I just do this and that," but I think for the most part I was never seriously considering, like, stopping, like, completely. But it was definitely something that... And my mum and dad had raised it, uh, raised it to me, my own family and friends. It's like, "If this is making you feel that bad..." Especially when my Tourette's thing was really bad and we never knew what it was. My dad gave me a lift... A lift home from the airport one night after I'd been in London for a week. And I was twitching like fuck, to the point where he started crying in the car-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(gasps) .
- LCLewis Capaldi
... because he was like, "This is like..." Again, we never knew it was Tourette's at this point, and he was like, "This is fucking, like, so..." Like, my... He thought I was having, like, a seizure the next day in the car and the rest of it. It was mad. So, like, they were obviously concerned and they were like, "Why? Like, just stop. Don't, don't do this if it's making you feel like shit. You never had any of this anxiety or anything before this all took off." But then, again, when I went to therapy, I was like, "Oh, I actually did," but this kind of just t- tipped it over the edge maybe where it became, like, panic attacks and stuff like that. But the live thing was really, was really a big thing. We went and played, um, the Grand Prix in Abu Dhabi in December of last year, (sniffs) um, just, like, a, a set, and I was really worried about that. And then we came... We went on stage, and I never di-... I never had any of those issues, like, I didn't twitch, I didn't have a panic attack, whatever. And I came off, and I was in the toilet, and I was like, I could have fucking burst into tears just because I was like, "Oh, thank fuck, I can actually do this still and not have... be fucking twitching and not be fucking terrified and all of this shit." Do you know what I mean? So, um, so that was, like, a big, a big thing. But yeah, over lockdown and stuff I definitely thought... Initially when it happened, it was such a relief because I was like, "Oh, thank fuck, I don't have to go away and do this tour-"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- 46:42 – 50:30
What would you liked to have been at 16?
- LCLewis Capaldi
"Well, where would the best place be if you have..." Like, do you know what I mean? It's like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's so simple but-
- LCLewis Capaldi
... it's, like, so simple but actually-
- SBSteven Bartlett
So...
- LCLewis Capaldi
... them making you say it you go, "Oh, it makes so much fucking sense."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Um, and yeah, so it's been a, it's been a big help for... And again, it's, like, not something that I feel like... I feel... Uh, again, it's not something I ever saw myself doing, going to therapy and all the rest of it. But it definitely fucking makes me feel great. Like, afterwards you just feel like a fucking weight's been lifted off your shoulders. And, um, I definitely... Uh, and like you say, I would... Uh, if, if you have the means to do it, it's something that I would recommend massively. I think, um, uh, uh, it has helped me. Like, uh, well, conti- uh, continues to help me. It's that thing of like... It's like anything. It's like you go to the gym to stay... Well, I don't (laughs) but you go to the gym to stay-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... to stay fit, like. Uh, for me, like, going to therapy is like can I go to the gym to kind of like help my mind just fucking-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Exactly.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... uh, work through things and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
And having the awareness to know that you're, you are living an extraordinarily unhuman life.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm. Feel it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I say unhuman because we're not meant to have feedback at that scale.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
We're not to go, meant to go into arenas. I mean if we're probably from our hardwire, wiring we're probably meant to be in groups of 10-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah, feel it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... of people we know and love, you know.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Of course.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Small, small communities. Not going to arenas with tens of thousands of people.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Absolutely man. Absolutely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
And I think that's the thing as well is, like, understanding that you've... This experience that you've been through is, is, is, is a f-... Not a... The word traumatic is a fucking big word but it is, it's a fucking-
- SBSteven Bartlett
It is traumatic.
- LCLewis Capaldi
It's a massive switch.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Like I was fucking playing pubs at weekends, earning money and fucking... I was at college, uh, doing music because... And the only reason I did it was because I was lying on my bed one day and my dad says, "What are you doing after the summer?" And I goes, "Oh, I don't know yet. I was just gonna play gigs." And he was like, "Ah, you fuck."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
"Fucking work it some." So I phoned my friend Adam and was like, "What course are you doing?" "Oh, I'm doing this music course." Went and done that.So I was just fucking, like, pottering around, and then the shit just kicked off. Do you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was your hope for life then, if you could've, we go back, 'cause we did skip past that part.
- 50:30 – 56:24
How do others get where you are
- LCLewis Capaldi
It's really tough." But, 'cause again, it's fucking class and loads of respect. But, um, but yeah. So I think it's, it's ... Uh, uh, for me it was never ... I never thought we would get to this point. Like, I never, uh ... Even when I got signed, I didn't think it was gonna last. And I've always been told, like, getting signed means nothing really 'cause it ... And it does kind of. I mean, it's a nice little tick but it's, doesn't mean anything. S- more people get dropped than, than fucking do fucking become success stories. Um, so it's always been, like, stuff that I've, I've always just been glass half empty and been like, "Right, this probably doesn't really work out, but I'm gonna fucking try and really give it a go. But it probably won't work out, so don't get ..." I don't like to get too fucking aspirational. And I, and I wouldn't say I'm necessarily an ambitious person. I do think there's people around me who are ambitious and who we have the same, like, lofty dreams, and they maybe see something in me that, again, this is something that I cannot be more thankful for, for like labels and agents and PRs and my manager and my family and friends and stuff. They've obviously saw something and thought for some reason that we could get to a point. But personally, I just feel like I, like, I'm just happy to play music and p- specifically play live. So if this just c- continue to, that I can do that. I kinda like big crowds now, so it'd be nice if they could stay big for at least two years or whatever. But if I can play live music, yeah, fucking I'll show up and play Someone You Loved at any old shite for the next 20 years. Do you know what I mean? I don't give a fuck. I'll, I'll do that, man. Do you know what I mean? 'Cause it's a buzz. But, um, but yeah. I don't know. I just think I've always been that, "Oh, this probably won't ... This is probably the end of the road here. This is probably as big as we're gonna get." And it's just, like, when I, even when we started doing well in terms of, like, selling tickets for gigs and stuff, I always saw ... I never ever saw myself as someone who was gonna have a top 40 single. So this is after selling out tours when I used it. I just thought, "Oh, we could maybe squeeze a top ten album." That was, like, my big, my big thing. I would say, "If we get a top ten album, I'll be fucking happy." And then I just fucking took it on a life of its own.
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of the things that I was, um, really inspired by, and which we kind of skipped over again, is this, how many years of, like, practice and repetition you put in-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... before you got discovered. Like, playing in pubs at, like, 11 years old-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and sneaking in and hiding in the toilets.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How important, in hindsight, was that practice?
- LCLewis Capaldi
Just, like, invaluable. Like, it's so fucking, like, like, I wouldn't be doing this if it hadn't been for that. But that's the thing. It's, like, the love of doing it. It wasn't like, it didn't feel like to me like a chore or like a fucking ... And because I wasn't aiming for anything, it felt like, "Oh, this is the buzz. This is the, this is the goal." Like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Revert.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah. Where the- where- we've done it. Me, when I got on stage when I was 11 hiding in toilets, whe- when I got on stage, I was like, "Fuck, I've made it. This is good." Like, do you know what I mean? The fact that I didn't kicked out the pub, again, didn't get kicked out the pub that time, that was fucking grand. That was all I was after. Um, but I, so I, I, to me that was, that was fucking, that was the goal. Just play gigs. That's class. Most of my memories are, like, going out and getting hammered and underage drinking, which you obviously shouldn't do whatever, but it's like, um, is that are all really ... T- we put gigs on and we, we invited all our friends to these gigs. And like, we went, we went and hired pubs that we knew served people who were, like, 16 and all that. Like, we did, like, it was this, it's so ... My life has been so ingrained in, like, doing, like, music, but it never ever felt like ... Uh, even now it doesn't feel like I'm working hard. Nothing feels like I'm working hard. Like, when I, I was s- my ... It's getting to, like, the number one record at the time didn't feel like I was doing much. I just felt like I was ... Because I fucking loved doing it, it didn't feel like I was working really, really hard. Again, I think it might be something to do with the fact that my brothers are, like, electricians and my dad's a fishmonger and mum's a nurse, and I know what I can see, like, pr- a proper day's graft compared to-... fannying about all day and (laughs) noodling a guitar and all the rest of it. But, like, I just never saw it as, like, fucking, "Oh, I'm really in the pits here and I'm fucking like..." I just didn't feel like I was working hard. And, and that goes back to, like, being in those pubs and being in those, like, shite bars with no one was listening to you, or, or playing in a restaurant even when I was thinking, "Fuck, if I was eating my dinner, I wouldn't want to hear me fucking singing." Like, that shit was like... (sighs) And I think that's a lot to do with, like, the, the y- you have to l- develop a thick skin playing in a pub, 'cause someone will shout you a fucking tune that you nonstop when you're living-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
As well. (laughs) Maybe not when you're 11. But when I started hitting puberty and the cute factor went away, it was like things got dicey for a bit, for sure. Things were an is- things were an issue. But, um, but yeah, I think that, that, and that's what I, that's why any time I see, I meet people, like young guys or girls or fucking whoever, that wants to be a musician and is like, "What did you do?" or whatever, I just, "Play gigs." Just immediately go out and play a gig. Don't focus on ... A lot of people are like, "Oh, I'm gonna look this way and I'm gonna fucking, I'm gonna fucking ... This is how I'm gonna perform on stage." And they're ... It's just, like, just go do it. Just go play gigs. Don't worry about releasing. You don't have to release music. I never released a song. I never did, like, an official release, like, at like any ... Like, fucking ... The f- the first song I ever released was Bruises, which was on my album. That's the first song I ever put out, like, record, went and recorded. Like, I went in a recording studio and did some demos before, but that was the first song I ever properly recorded. 'Cause I, but I'd been writing songs for fucking ... At that point, I would've, I would've been 20 when that came out? So, th- ... S- ... 10 years, I'd been writing songs for? About 12, 'cause I started writing songs when I was nine. So 12 years I'd been writing songs for. I got to a point where I was just like ... And, uh, but it was never in my head about releasing music, 'cause I was like, "Oh, I
- 56:24 – 1:04:13
Social media marketing
- LCLewis Capaldi
just want to play live." Like, it was just this, this thing that I just kept doing in tandem with playing live. So for me, it's just like, that's whatever I say to people. Just go do it and just go fucking get the experience. I remember going to college when we were 18, and my ... Like, all these people who were really talented musicians and singers and fucking ... Like, they had never p- they'd never played a live gig. And I was so surprised by it, 'cause they were fucking much, m- much more, like, technically gifted and all the rest of it, and better singers and all that shit, than me. But the f- the fact that we were, we had played live so much, me and my, uh, friend Adam, who was a
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... top end, Paige, who was my girlfriend, my ex-girlfriend, who is Love Island winner 2020. But, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
... she, (laughs) she, but sh- she was the same. She'd done loads of gigs, Adam had done loads of gigs, I'd done loads of gigs. Like, we all drove to thingy together. Um, and it was like, w- th- uh, that sort of experience and gigging that we all had became, like ... It was just so, the, the, uh, it was so apparent, like that sort of, like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... kind of disparity. And not, again, these people are much better musicians and, like, singers and everything than I was. But, like, when you got on stage, it was like there was a marked difference, I think. Just 'cause it-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... was like you had that comfortability being up there and doing it, and ... Like, I think my voice is the, a, is, I sound the way I sound because of playing in pubs. Like, that sort of, like, loud, fucking ... 'Cause y- I had to fucking sing above the noise of people talking pish and, like, drinking, all the rest of it. And, like, I think, yeah. It's, it's ... If I hadn't done that, looking back now, I'm like, "Oh, that's, that was the fucking ... That was the, the, the kinda game changer." Like ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
This is not an easy question for someone that's self-deprecating.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Uh-huh.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But when you look back in hindsight, as you've said there, and you go, "Do you know what?" 'Cause we all do it. We go, "Wh- what, what was the reason why I was ..." 'Cause you, you've been wildly, wildly fucking successful.
- LCLewis Capaldi
(laughs) Thanks. So ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
I mean, I probably don't have the, the right words to describe the, just how big your, your records got. And I'm a huge fan of yours.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Well, thank you. Cheers.
- SBSteven Bartlett
We have a music chat, and I really am. I, like, you know, um, in the same way I'm a big fan of Adele.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm a big fan of Ed Sheeran.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Good.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You are, your record, your records reached that level.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm. Thanks.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When, in hindsight, so you say, okay, uh, doing those pub gigs-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and the repetitions there.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But what else?
- LCLewis Capaldi
I think, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
No s- self-deprecation allowed-
- LCLewis Capaldi
No, no, no. Totally.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... here, there we go, 'cause I'm a fucking ... (laughs)
- 1:04:13 – 1:09:10
Writing songs
- LCLewis Capaldi
what it would be, but then, like, someone like, like, pe- ... That, that you look at it now and it's, like, people who are themselves. Like, Doja Cat and Lizzo are two people who just are themselves and people love them for it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It ... I'm ... There's a name I'm forgetting. Um, young, uh-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yungblud?
- SBSteven Bartlett
No. An, an, an artist in America who did that song about ri- riding a s- a horse.
- LCLewis Capaldi
Oh, Lil Nas?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, Lil Nas. (laughs)
- LCLewis Capaldi
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Ex- and, uh, exactly. That's the thing. And now obviously he's doing so much for, like, LGBT-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... Q+, um, representation, especially in, like, hip hop and all the rest of it. It's fucking a- it's amazing. And I think, yeah, people who are ... That's the thing now. You're seeing people who are themselves. It's less about being, like, a polished fucking-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- LCLewis Capaldi
... pop star or whatever. People, people ... 'Cause I think people now see through that shit. Like, people see, like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Well, you're way more relatable than-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... some perfect-
- LCLewis Capaldi
Mm. Totally.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... beauti- ... Like, some, like, one of ... Like a David Beckham model with, like-
Episode duration: 1:49:05
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