The Diary of a CEOLucy Hale Opens Up For The First Time About Eating Disorders, Relationships & Addiction | E224
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,080 words- 0:00 – 2:46
Intro
- LHLucy Hale
You have to go to a dark place sometimes to like get to that point. (sniffs) Ooh. Um. (sniffs) We are so excited to have Lucy Hale. She's been in the spotlight since she was just a kid. Stars on the hit show, Pretty Little Liars. And now a movie star. Not what you were expecting? You might be the first real deep conversation I've had. It's dark, disgusting, and scary. I wish I could go back and tell my 16-year-old self, "Buckle up, girl, (laughs) we're gonna go through some..."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Lucy Hale!
- LHLucy Hale
Lucy Hale. Lucy Hale, everybody.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you have those successes in life, we have an assumption that it'll fix a bunch of stuff. What didn't it fix?
- LHLucy Hale
I struggled with an eating disorder, because society makes it really freaking hard (laughs) to like the way you look. I hated myself so much that I couldn't even give it basic needs, like food. I did not feel worthy of the success, or the career, or the people in my life. And then the coping mechanisms were, like, incredibly self-destructive. I've been working on getting sober since I was 20. I just, like, held onto that belief that real Lucy came out when she was drinking. I tried to change for my mom. I tried to change for my career. One of my best friends died of alcoholism, and that still didn't make me want to get sober. None of that ... works. Alcohol isn't the problem. The problem is this feeling inside of me. I have to try it a different way.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was there a darkest day?
- LHLucy Hale
Oh boy. (sniffs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
I just wanna start this episode with a message of thanks. A thank you to everybody that tunes in to listen to this podcast. By doing so, you've enabled me to live out my dream, but also for many members of our team to live out their dreams too. It's one of the greatest privileges I could never have dreamed of or imagined in my life to get to do this, to get to learn from these people, to get to have these conversations, to get to interrogate them from a very selfish perspective, trying to solve problems I have in my life. So, I feel like I owe you a huge thank you for being here and for listening to these episodes and for making this platform what it is. Can I ask you a favor? I can't tell you how much, um, you can change the course of this podcast, the, the, the course of the guests we're able to invite to the show, and to the course of everything that we do here just by doing one simple thing. And that simple thing is hitting that subscribe button. Helps this channel more than I could ever explain. The guests on this platform are incredible because so many of you have hit that button. And I know when we think about what we wanna do together over the next year on this show, a lot of it is gonna be fueled by the amount of you that are subscribed and that tune into this show every week. So, thank you. Let's keep doing this. And I can't wait to see what this year brings for this show, for us as a community, and for this platform.
- 2:46 – 11:52
Early context
- SBSteven Bartlett
Lucy.
- LHLucy Hale
Hey.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I tend to start these podcasts in a very similar way, and I think in your case it's never been more pertinent to start in that way, which is to understand your context. I've got to be honest, I, I read a lot about you online, but I couldn't really get to the very crux of like who you are and why you are that way.
- LHLucy Hale
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it's, and it was really, really surprising to me, because it almost appeared that you hadn't done a proper slightly, um, deeper interview before.
- LHLucy Hale
No, I think... It's so interesting you word it that way, because I actually didn't know who I was until very recently. And I think that's becau-... And yes, you might be the first, um, real deep conversation I've had, um, publicly, and that's part of the reason why I wanted to do this, because I'll start off with saying, I just think you're so amazing. You're obviously very intelligent, but like you lead with your heart. And I was like, "Oh, I feel like this would be a good match for us to kind of talk." But yeah, I, I think because I, I moved to LA when I was 15 and started working pretty young that my identity became what I did for a living and my accomplishments and my successes or failures within my career space. So, it took me a long time to figure out who I was or who I wanted to be. Like, to, people would ask me, "What kind of person are you?" And I actually couldn't answer it. I had no idea. And through a series of, um, guess we'll call it speed bumps, just we all have our own personal journey. I have... I'm slowly like peeling away that onion of, of who I am. And it, it turns out like that person's always been here, I just forgot she was there or like kind of put her in the basement, if you will. But, um, but yeah, it's been an interes-... It's been a really powerful last year for me. Um, I will give you a heads up, I cry all the time, so (laughs) just-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
... I'm, I'm getting you ready.
- SBSteven Bartlett
No worries.
- LHLucy Hale
I also have big eyes and they get really glassy, but-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LHLucy Hale
... it, I, I get emotional when I speak about these things because I just love where I've landed in my life and it's been a really, um... Jesus, I didn't know I'd get like emotional this early on. Um, it's just been a really powerful, and painful, insightful, joyous, horrible journey. And I, um, love that I can sit across from you now and be my most authentic self. So, that's a long way of saying I'm glad to be here. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm. And it's not, it's, it, it makes you emotional because you're happy where you are now.
- LHLucy Hale
I, I mean, I, I've always kind of felt like an open wound, if, if that makes sense. Like, even as a kid, I just felt like I felt things in a really deep way. Um, you could call that (laughs) maybe codependency or, um, taking on problems that weren't mine. But now I get emotional because...... of the perspective and just having pride in, in the choices I've made. And, um, and it's not, it's not em- emotional tears in a sad way, it's more just joy. Whereas, I've been happy at different points in my life, but I hadn't ever experienced joy. And to me the difference in happiness and, and being joyous, joyous is long-term and sustainable and it doesn't come from anything external, it comes from here. And, um, and I'd always heard people say that, that like, "True happiness comes from yourself." And I was like, "I don't, what, what are you talk... Like, okay, shut up." Like, "I don't know what you're talking about." But, but it really does and it's been, um, a slow grind.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So let's start from the beginning then, um, your context before the age of 10 years old, growing up in Memphis.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Bring me into that world, like what do I, what do I need to know about that, that chapter in your life to understand the journey and the direction that journey took?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. Um, yeah, so from Memphis. Uh, family's all still in Tennessee. I have an older sister who I adore and admire so, so much. Um, I mainly lived with my mom growing up. Um, my dad's still in the picture but they, they were divorced really young. And I was just... What was I like as a child? I was, I think as long as I can rem- remember, I've always felt kind of like, and I don't mean this in a sad way, like in a victim way. I've always felt like I was on the outside looking in. Like I never had a lot of friends, I never felt the need to make friends or be social. Like after school, I wouldn't want to go to a friend's house. I would, I would rush to get home to go be alone with myself. So I've kind of always craved this feeling of needing solitude because that's when I could sort of be myself, and I felt that as early as, you know, 10 years old. But, um, I guess my love of entertaining, uh, came from... My mom was married to this man who heard me singing in my room when I was probably like six or seven. I loved Aladdin, I loved Disney movies and I, I vividly remember like pretending to be Jasmine on the magic carpet, and I would just sing with my little tapes and, and he told my mom like, "Lucy's got a good voice." And up until that point, I had never... You know, I was too young to even know what being a singer meant. But that led to taking singing lessons, which led to performing around Memphis. And mind you, I hated performing live. Like I felt, for someone who's an introvert and someone who loves solitude, being on stage, and I'm sure we'll talk about this later, like I ended up doing music as an adult, and I still have that same feeling. I just felt so exposed and it was really scary, and I ran a little anxious. Um, but anyway, so I, I grew up performing in that way, and then I found out what it meant to be an actor. This is probably around age 13 or 14. And we found this small agent who was like, "Sh- Lucy should audition for this show that Disney's doi- doing called Hannah Montana." This was years before they cast Miley Cyrus. And it was then, it was that moment in that audition where I was thinking, "Oh, I can act and sing at the same time? Like this is my dream, this is my way out." You know? And, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Way out.
- LHLucy Hale
I'll get... Yeah. I'll... You're so smart. Yes. So I, I now as an adult, I'll circle back around to it, um, 'cause you know how I said it was hard for me to say what kind of person am I?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
It was also hard for me, up until recently, to, to know why I wanted to be an actor. I didn't know why until recently, and I'll circle back around to it. But, um, so it was this Hannah Mon- Montana audition which led to knowing what a pilot season was. And pilot season, for anyone listening, is when... They don't really have a pilot season anymore because of streaming and, and everything. But it's when a network pays money for one episode to see if they want to invest in doing a series. You know what a pilot season is. But, um, I talked my mom into moving out to California. And when I mean tal- I didn't talk her into it. I think it was perfect timing for her and for me, and we packed up our Prius and all of our stuff, which wasn't a lot. I come from a very simple upbringing. And my mom was a travel nurse. She cashed in her retirement for us to move out here. And I always ask her now, I'm like, "How did you, how did you do that?" Like that's kind of insane. And she, and I'm sure she has her personal reasons too but she was like, "I kinda just had this feeling it was gonna work out for you." That also makes me cry. (laughs) And I also think it's really funny because if it hadn't have worked out, I'd be screwed because I didn't graduate high school. I wouldn't know where I belonged, like I thank my lucky stars that it did work out because, um, (laughs) life would, would look a lot different I'm sure. Um, and then, so we moved to LA, planning to stay for three months at 15 and I never left, and I've been here almost 20 years.
- 11:52 – 19:09
Acting was my way out
- LHLucy Hale
And now I guess it's a good segue into what I meant by a way out. And I guess what I mean by that is, I never felt... I knew that life there was n- not, it didn't feel like home. I never knew where I fit in. Um, I felt...I love my family so much, but I always felt like the black sheep of the family. I just felt different, e- even as a little kid. And, um, and it's no wonder that I got into acting because that was, I was always in my imagination. Like, my coping mechanism was, like, dreamland in my head and, like, fantasizing about what my future would look like. Well, if you believe in the power of manifestation, my future looked like this, like little Lucy kind of created this, this whole life for myself and I just knew I wanted something different.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know you used-
- LHLucy Hale
And-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... the word coping mechanism?
- LHLucy Hale
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm really, I'm really compelled by that-
- LHLucy Hale
Okay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... 'cause I sat with Maisie Williams-
- LHLucy Hale
Um, that was another reason why I really wanted to do this because I thought that episode, in particular, was so powerful.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
Really moving.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that, th- yeah. I, I've got chills then just thinking about it because-
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And as you were speaking, there was a lot of, like, through lines and similarities as to what you were saying, like Maisie really kind of lost her identity in... because she was a, a very young actress and she became-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But also she was, in her own words, using acting as a way to escape, uh, i- which is almost what I heard from, from you there.
- LHLucy Hale
Yes. I didn't realize it. I realize now that my job completely was, and has been at times, a huge Band-Aid for a lot of issues in my life because I have, like, very addictive tendencies and a very addictive personality, and work, like a lot of people, can be such an amazing distraction and we get away with it because you're productive, you make money, people like you. It's not like a negative, addictive behavior.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
But it's so easy to not heal or not focus on what's going on when you're constantly busy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
And that's why after an experience like Pretty Little Liars, why everything kind of just, like, whoo, you know? Because for... eh, we did that show for... we did 170-something episodes, that was, like, eight years of my life in between 20 and 28 years old. I, I don't feel like I emotionally developed in... I don't know what normal is, but I feel like I missed out on some normal experiences and, um, so it wasn't until that period of my life afterwards where I realized how I was contributing to my own suffering. And I didn't even realize the magnitude of it until I was outside of something like that show.
- SBSteven Bartlett
In hindsight, when you look back on your, your younger years, you talked about your parents separating.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How, h- what impact did that have on you in hindsight, in your view?
- LHLucy Hale
You know, I often think about this because I think it was 100% the best decision for everyone and I, um... You know, you hear about so many people staying together for the kids. Oh my fucking... no. If my... I'm so glad that my parents separated because it was the best thing for everyone. And-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- LHLucy Hale
Um, it wasn't a happy marriage. I don't think... You know, and I, I wanna respect both of my parents and not speak up really on that, but, but I do think that it may have been a little toxic at, at times and, you know, I was four and my sister was six and it, uh, it allowed for a little more peace and calmness and, and both of my parents are now remarried to wonderful people and, and it all worked out. But I think, um, I was raised by a single mom for a lot of my childhood. She was remarried for a little bit, but my, my dad is now back in my life and he's given me so many lessons. I mean, I think that anything that's traumatic or painful, like, I sort of just use that as ammunition to move forward. I'm like, "What is this trying to teach me? What has this given me?" Because we can look at any experience and say, and play victim and you can... I think it's okay to be the victim when you're younger, like your teenager, your 20s. You... It, it's kind of okay to do that and part of life, but I think at some point you have to take ownership of your life. That's why I feel like so many people are miserable because it's... you're in victim mode. I don't ever want to be a victim of my life or my circumstances ever. I want to be the happiest I can be and learn the most I can possibly learn about myself. And sometimes that means... (laughs) Jesus Christ, sorry. You have to go to a dark place sometimes to, like, get to that point. Woo-hoo. (laughs) Um, thank you. I'm a cry baby. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you want some more tissue?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah, that's fine. I don't even remember.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I can get you just... Yeah.
- 19:09 – 21:50
Your grandmother
- LHLucy Hale
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your grandmother.
- LHLucy Hale
My grandmother.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Got a tattoo on your-
- LHLucy Hale
(laughs) Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... left wrist.
- LHLucy Hale
Oh wow, yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I, I didn't, I saw you pulling out your left wrist, so-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... I just went with it. (laughs)
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I love you, it says, right?
- LHLucy Hale
Perfect time... Yes. So...
- SBSteven Bartlett
What role did she play in this picture?
- LHLucy Hale
She... So she, her name was Karen, and she was my dad's mom. And my grandmother, rest in peace, you amazing soul, she was the coolest badass woman I've ever met. She taught me about things that maybe I shouldn't have learned at such a young age. She would put on Oprah when Oprah would be talking about really heavy topics. She put on the movie Grease when I was a kid, and that was a movie where I'm like, "Pew, I wanna do that." Um, and I, I don't know where you land within the medium psychic space, but I've talked to, I do, um, I practice Reiki-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
... with, um, this woman named Katie who always senses my grandmother's energy. And, and every kind of experience like that, my grandmother's energy has showed up. So I truly believe that she is here with me. But she was just smart and she thought differently than anyone in my family, and as an adult, I can look back and think, "I'm so much like her." Like, I just, I miss her. She died really young. Um, she died of emphysema. And it's shocking I never picked up smoking, because I, I told you I'm like an extremist, but I've never been a smoker because of her. And, um, yeah, she died in her mid-60s. But she was so funny, like she, she had breathing tubes on and she smoked until the day she died still, but that just like showed you who she was. She just was a powerhouse and so funny, um, and I miss her. I miss her all the time. I... And it, and it's kind of sad because I don't have that many pictures of her because it was before I had a cellphone and she died when I was 15, so I maybe had just gotten one of those Sidekicks or Nokia phones, and I just don't have that much tangible memories of her.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're named after her though, right?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. Yeah. Karen Lucille. And, uh, so she definitely lives on in me in that way. And, um, yeah. That's nice to chat about her. Thank you for bringing
- 21:50 – 25:38
Your mother
- LHLucy Hale
her up.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I was really s- inspired by, um, the love your mother must have had it for you, but also-
- LHLucy Hale
(laughs) .
- SBSteven Bartlett
... really the belief she must have had in you to move to LA with you when you were 15. I'm assuming purely so you could pursue a career in, in Hollywood.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
At 15 years old.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. It's totally bizarre. And when I tell people that, I just have to set the tone, my mom was not a stage mom at all. And by that I mean, she wasn't, it was never forced upon me. I, she just always encouraged me to follow this dream, which is so incredible because you hear of so many people where it's the opposite, where the parents are forcing a dream you don't really want onto you. And she just instilled a lot of willpower. My mom is such a hard worker. I do believe I have my, I get my drive and work ethic from her. And she's so selfless. Like she would give her last penny to anyone, and just loves s- with her entire heart. Um, and my s- my mom and I have definitely had our, uh, rough moments in, over the course of our lives, but we're in such a beautiful place now where we really can show up exactly how we are without getting, um, triggered or defensive 'cause we're really similar in the way we approach our emotions, I guess, and so we kind of have butted heads at times, but she's always been my just biggest fan. And, um, I have no idea how, 'cause I, 'cause I often think if I had a daughter who wanted to do what I want to do, would I do that? I don't know. How do you know? It's kind of insane, isn't it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's insane.
- LHLucy Hale
Thanks mom for being insane. I love you for it. Like, thank God. Uh, but it was a risk, for sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And she came and worked as a nurse?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. So she... The only way we could afford to live out here, 'cause as you know, cost of living is insane, um, she was a travel nurse, which is kind of an agency for nurses that live across the world and they could place her at a hospital and they would pay for our rent, and she would make a little extra money. But I mean, we were kind of barely getting by. Barely getting by. And yeah, I felt like there was always kind of financial...... worry there, but we, we always, she always made it work. We always figured it out.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And by sort of 16 you start working in TV shows and stuff, out here in LA?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. So the first ... So this is a really cool story to tell you, because I just got back from Vancouver. But the first show I ever did, the first series was called Bionic Woman. It was a remake of a show, really popular show from the '70s, '80s on NBC, and I got cast as the little sister. And we lived in Vancouver, um, in this building right by the sea line. And then I now, 19 years later, just was working up there again, and I look out the window of the building I was living in, it's the exact same building my mom lived in. And I'm like, that is just the universe f- full circle. It was the coolest full circle moment of being 16 there with my mom on my first job to everything that's transpired to me being 33 working there now. It was just, like, this really incredible moment. But, but yeah, I, I, uh, started kind of working, supporting myself since 17, and then I think my mom saw that I somewhat had a good head on my shoulders (laughs) by 18, and then she moved back to Tennessee.
- 25:38 – 28:17
Life between 16-19
- LHLucy Hale
- SBSteven Bartlett
That period between you being 16 and 19 when you were living out in LA predominantly-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... um, before, you know, you get cast for Pretty Little Liars, how'd you feel about that chapter of your life? When you reflect on that, that chapter, that 16 to 19 year, year old chapter, what do you think?
- LHLucy Hale
It's so interesting, because I actually haven't ... Seeing this building in Vancouver was the first time I had thought about that time in my life in 10 years. I actually haven't sat and thought about ... I don't know, I also feel like so much of my memories are kind of blurry from that time. I ... It's so weird. Like, I can't even answer that question. I think, I think I was very grateful to be in LA and pursuing this dream, but that was kind of the beginning (laughs) of it all, of, of what was to come. Um, like I wish I could go back and tell my 16-year-old self, like, "Buckle up, girl. We're gonna get through this, but we're gonna (laughs) go through some shit." You know? Um, I ... And I, I've been open about this before. Like, I struggled with an eating disorder, um, most of my teen years up until, like, mid-20s, and it, it was around that time that it had kind of ... that was, like, turned up to a 10. And I ... And it, I mean, it's all in direct correlation with moving to a new city, throwing myself into the world of acting. Like, I think my life kind of felt out of control in a way and my emotions felt out of control, and body stuff, food stuff is all needing, needing to control. And, um, uh, so yeah. I mean, I guess I look back on that time and ... I have compassion now. Like, I don't want to say I f- feel sorry for myself, but ... I do believe in, like ... I mean, I was a teenager, but all of the inner child work where you just kind of see that image of you, young you, and really hold space for that and really speak kindly to yourself. Um, but honestly I don't really remember a lot more. And I, I don't know if that's weird. But it, I, I also feel that s- similarly about my childhood. I, I have certain memories, but ... I don't know, maybe I was disassociating a lot? I told you I lived in my head-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
... a ton, so ... I don't know. It seems like so much has happened since then.
- 28:17 – 42:42
Your eating disorder
- LHLucy Hale
- SBSteven Bartlett
Eating disorders.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How do I, how do I understand that? As someone that's never experienced, um, an eating disorder, how do I, how do I understand that? Is there a moment where you realize that there's a, there's a problem or you, you notice behavior patterns that you think are, um, unhealthy-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... to say the least?
- LHLucy Hale
I think from anything that disrupts your life or your happiness or your relationships or your career, like, that can be described as a problem. And I think for me, it was all I thought about from the moment I woke up until I went to bed at night. How much should I eat? How much should I work out? I would step on a scale f- 30 times a day. I was eating so little that it was shocking. Um, and it, and it wasn't really ever about ... That's a lie. It was about the way I looked at, at one point, because I thought if I could just be this number, this goal weight, then I'll be enough. Because it all root- rooted back to I don't feel enough. I don't feel like enough.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- LHLucy Hale
Um ... And that's still a question I'm figuring out, because it, it, um ... Self-worth and knowing I'm enough, like, where did the thought of I'm not enough come from? Did I hear it when I was a kid? I don't know. Did I hear something that resonated as you're not enough? Maybe. Um ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know Gabor Mate? Do you know who that is?
- LHLucy Hale
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Gabor Mate? He, he came on my podcast. He's maybe, maybe the leading therapist, psychologist, uh, in the world on, like, childhood trauma and, and-
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Much of the crux of what he talks about is where we learn this idea that we're not enlo- enough as kids. One of the things he said to me, which has still sat with me, is he said to me, he goes, "Children are narcissists." He goes, "When the parents are arguing, the child thinks it's about them."
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I, and when he said that to me, I go, "Oh my God." It explains so much because I grew-
- LHLucy Hale
We're sponges, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. So but we interpret that situation, like, that home life situation or whatever, as like, this is about me.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. And, and so now I can look back and say maybe as a kid I thought my parents got divorced because of me. Maybe I ... You know, there's a million different scenarios. So I'm certain I learned it at a young age, and ...And as kids, none of us come out unscathed, right? Like we all take on some sort of-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
... pain and trauma from somewhere or someone. But mine manifested as an eating disorder initially, which then led to other issues. But it, but it all started... 'Cause I always try to think when, when did it begin? When did this obsession begin? And I want to say it was maybe around like 13 or 14 when I had, um... No, no, no. Like 14, 15, was starting homeschooling and I had to start logging my exercise hours. And-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- LHLucy Hale
It, it was for PE and you had to say, "I'm do- I did PE today for X amount of time." And that's the only thing I can think of that started this obsession with movement, and then I saw my body kind of change. And then I started restricting eating, and then it became, like I said, just it slowly just grew and grew to something that I could not enjoy life. I could not have a conversation. I could not focus on anything. It's a, it's a miracle that I even started working and could focus on acting, because it was... When I mean it was a constant loop, I don't know how I got out of it. And I... I mean, the thing with eating disorders is, it can always creep back up on you and there are da- days when I don't feel like my best self, but I love myself enough now to nourish my body. And it's so sad to think that I hated myself so much that I couldn't even give it basic needs like food. Are you kidding me? Like that is so tragic and so many people don't understand the space of an eating disorder because there's a spectrum, and I can only speak from my point of view which... I mean, I don't, I really don't know any woman that has a normal relationship to their body or to food, you know, because society makes it really freaking hard (laughs) to like the way you look. Social media is... Can be a really beautiful place and you're doing such an amazing thing with the work you do and like changing lives, but like the social, social media can be poison. I have to really limit what, who I look at, what I look at, and I'm a grown adult and it feels silly, but you have to like curate your life to keep your mind and soul and spirit feeling good. Um, I always feel a little uncomfortable talking about an eating disorder because I'm sensitive and I know that it can be triggering and hard for people to talk about food and bodies and people don't understand how someone who objectively is thin could think they were overweight, but I... And I can't explain it, but that's just what I saw and what I felt. And it... And now I can look back and see photos and think, "Oh my God, I was so..." I wasn't seeing reality. You just create this narrative in your head that's scary and dark and, and it ultimately wasn't about the way I looked. It was about so much more which is, which is I had no self-worth. Incredibly low self-worth and, and I really owe it to like getting out of that. I dated a guy for a long time who was Italian. (laughs) I mean, it sounds so silly. It's like how did you get help? It wasn't through therapy. I didn't start doing therapy until my early 20s for a different reason, but people always ask, "How did you survive those horrible years of your eating disorder?" It was my Italian boyfriend who loved and appreciated food, and he would make us go to dinner and I learned to enjoy food again. And it was like each year that went by, I started to feel better and better. And then I booked Pretty Little Liars and it got a little dodgy again and scary but I learned other coping mech- mechanisms that worked for a while until they didn't. Um, but, but now my relationship... I never thought I could call myself a foodie because today like I love food. That's how I experience a new city or a culture. Like I just appreciate it and I know that we need food to survive and, and I like, I like and love and respect my body too. If I'm tired, I rest. If I want to work out, I work out. I can just sort of navigate feeling uncomfortable so much better these days.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Were you ever given, given a dia- diagnosis for that disorder? Was there ever medical intervention?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah, I did... My mom, um, shortly before she moved to Tennessee, she, you know, she recognized it was a problem and she helped in the best way she knew how but I'm sure as a parent, she felt helpless and felt like it was her fault maybe. Um, I went to a therapist only a handful of times where that was the first time I had heard, "You're anorexic." And that word just sounds so daunting and scary but, I mean, I, I've never been in denial though. Like I've always had... I always knew it wasn't normal behavior. Like I knew that my hair shouldn't be falling out and then I knew that I shouldn't be able to see every bone in my body, but you get like addicted to this feeling of controlling your own body and, um, so I kind of knew it was a problem but I didn't know what anorexia meant until this therapist had told me. That was probably like age 17. Um, yeah, I haven't thought about all that in a long time too because I'm so on the other side of it and it's nice. It's so nice to not have that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
... hamster wheel in your head about that all the time.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Being in, um, being in LA, being in the entertainment industry is a, I imagine, a tricky place to be when you're contending with issues of, you know-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... eating disorders and 'cause, because of the influence of, you know, advertising and movies, especially back then-
- 42:42 – 54:18
Your addiction, getting sober
- LHLucy Hale
worked for me were, like, incredibly self-destructive and self-sabotaging. And I, um, I'm not sure when this podcast comes out, and I had, I've never talked publicly until yesterday about being sober. I have a little over a year of sobriety which, you know, the people in my life, my friends, my family, who are just the greatest people in the world and have stood by my side for... You know, I've been working on getting sober since I was 20. I'm 33. It takes time. It took time and it took patience with myself. Um, I mean, this is a topic I could talk about until the end of time. But basically what alcohol did for me, it did a couple of things. It was like, it was like this feeling of, "Oh my God, this is what I've been searching for my whole life. I'm my truest self," right? Like, "I'm so much funnier and cooler and people like me." That's all bullshit. Guess what? Not true. I was not myself, not my truest self. But it or- it started with, "Wow, I can be free and funny and boys will like me." This is when I'm younger, right? And I just, like, held onto that belief that real Lucy came out when she was drinking. Guess what? Real Lucy did come out, but it was that rage and pain that I had been holding onto for so long. But it also quieted my mind. Um, I feel like, and I'm not the only person on the planet that deals with this, but, like, my brain just goes, doesn't shut off. It's exhausting. (laughs) But when I drink, 'cause I, I was like textbook binge drinker, like w- blackout, wouldn't remember what I did, what I said, which is scary. And, and it's also hard to explain that type of drinking to someone because people who haven't experienced it or dealt with it personally, like you... Addiction is such a, a topic that is still so taboo because it's... 'Cause people would just tell me, "Well, Lucy, don't drink." "Oh, thank you. Oh, okay. Tha- thank you so much. I'll, I'll try that. Thanks." But now it is that. Now it's like, okay, I just don't pick up the first drink and I'm fine. Because what would happen for me is I'd pick up the first drink, I'd like the feeling, I'd have another drink, I'd really like the feeling, and then it was past drink two, phew, don't remember. I wouldn't remember the rest of the night. Um, and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Through what period of your life was this, sorry?
- LHLucy Hale
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Since you were young?
- LHLucy Hale
Uh, I've had an issue... I, from my very first experience drinking, which was like age 14-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- LHLucy Hale
... up until a year ago, I have had a problem. I have never had a, a, a period of my life where I was a normal moderate drinker. It was always, "Let's go, let's, let's just..." I was willing to just go to this crazy dark place every time. And, you know, of course I tried, trying to be a moderate drinker, just having two. My, I have an allergy to alcohol. I cannot drink. Uh, I view it as an allergy to alcohol. My brain doesn't work the same way as someone who can just have a glass of wine. It always wants more. It's like craving that, that feeling.
- SBSteven Bartlett
M- my best friend has just actually finished a documentary on this subject matter. He was my best friend, but also my business partner for many years.
- LHLucy Hale
Okay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And the, the, the point where he realized he had a problem, we kind of had a bit of a face-to-face because he had done so much damage. And there was one particular instance where he did so much damage to himself, our company, our team members-
- LHLucy Hale
Ugh.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... that we, we met on a Sunday and we, we basically... It was that kind of ultimatum moment, which is, "You're gonna have to leave."
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know? And-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you can do a lot of damage, right, when you're, when you have that relationship with alcohol and you have an addiction to, to alcohol and it brings out that side of you.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you ever have moments like that where people close to you said...
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah, many times. And I... But it's one of those things. I, I remember the point in my life where I'm like, I woke up a morning after drinking and it was when I wanted to keep drinking. I was like, "Oh, um, my reaction to alcohol is different than my friends. Like, this is different." And I've known I had a problem this whole time. I was... There was never a moment where I thought I was normal. There have been moments where I didn't wanna change 'cause I'm like, "I'm not giving this up. Are you kidding me? Like, who would I be if I can't have fun and let loose and drink?" But I had many times, my manager of 19 years, who is an angel, truly an earth angel, I believe has saved my life at times. Like, this woman has been there for me. She's had hard conversations with me. I've had friends who've tough loved me, but I've had friends who say, "We can't until you do X, Y and Z." I've always been shown love and support, but the thing about addiction or just life in general, like, you gotta want something for yourself. Like, I had so many things happen where you would have thought I w- I would change. I've had... I tried to change for boyfriends, I tried to change for my mom, I tried to change for my career, I tried to change for vain reasons. I'm like, "Well, I'll look younger and be skinnier, I'll stop drinking for that." None of that shit works. I had to and wanted to get sober January 2nd, 2022 because I said, "I deserve more. I deserve more out of this life. I have to try it a different way and I have to be willing to just commit to it." You know, 'cause binge drinking, I would be sober for three months then relapse, be sober for a week, relapse. And I never... The, the really crazy thing is I never let it get in the way of my job because my career has always been so important.But when I'd go home at night, it would just be, like, so dark and I'd be so in my head about it. But I-
- SBSteven Bartlett
It would be so dark. No, no, I... I was thinking then, because my business partner described it as he w- there was a pain he was trying to escape, which we just never realized.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
He had a pain in his, in his life and his mind.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I would find him downstairs, 3:00 AM in the morning, in the laundry room with the lights off, drinking. I thought, "Oh, this guy's-
- LHLucy Hale
Oh, man.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... just, just... He just loves alcohol," right? That's what you think.
- LHLucy Hale
That's what people think.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right?
- LHLucy Hale
Or like, "Oh, sh- you like to party."
- SBSteven Bartlett
You ju- yeah, exactly. But, but I came to learn that there was a pain he was escaping that he hadn't addressed.
- 54:18 – 1:01:09
Pretty Little Liars
- SBSteven Bartlett
Pretty Little Liars.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
20 years old.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You were doing another show, right, called Privileged?
- LHLucy Hale
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is it Privileged, yeah?
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And they canceled that show.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that led to you being cast for Pretty Little Liars-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... which is pretty amazing, 'cause-
- LHLucy Hale
Universe is-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LHLucy Hale
... serendipitous, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Rejection can lead to redirection.
- LHLucy Hale
That is-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LHLucy Hale
There's a really cool story there. So I did this show called Privileged. They canceled it. I was devastated, and the same producer said, "Hey, we have this script."... it's based off of a book. We think you'd be great for it." And they said, "It's called Pretty Little Liars." And I'm like, " (gasps) I was such a huge fan of those books." I read the script and it was the first time I'd ever been offered something. And so, we get this offer, but at the same time ... So, at this point it's just a pilot and no one knew what the success of it would be. But at the same time I got that offer, I got the offer for something else, which was like a really ... I don't even remember what it was called, but it was a really shitty TV movie-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LHLucy Hale
... that I don't even think ... Did it get made? Yes, it did get made. And I, at one point was thinking, "I want to take this movie," because there was a really cute guy attached to it. You can see where, that's where my head was at, was, "Let's choose a part because of cute guy." And then it was almost overnight, where I just woke up the next morning and said, "You know what? No," because I would have had to choose between the two. I said, "I think I should choose the show." Well, thank God. Thank God. But, but it is such a great example of how one door closes, another one opens. Nothing is by c- co- coincidence in this life. I firmly believe that. I think that everything happens exactly how it should. And like having an open mind and seeing the lesson in everything, um, makes for a happier life too. But, yeah, it's crazy to think about that time.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that ... I, I mean, Pretty Little Liars became, in your own words, the biggest show in the world at one point.
- LHLucy Hale
Yes. I, I mean, I think? Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I mean, if it's one, two or three, I mean, it's still-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... the outcome is still the same. That your life irrevocably changes from that moment onwards-
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... um, for better and for worse, one might-
- LHLucy Hale
(laughs)
- 1:01:09 – 1:03:37
The darkest times
- LHLucy Hale
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was there a darkest day?
- LHLucy Hale
A darkest day?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Or a m- a patch where, you know?
- LHLucy Hale
I'm like where do (laughs) where do we begin?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ah, interesting.
- LHLucy Hale
Um, I had many, many, many what I thought were my emotional rock bottoms. Dozens. And so, that was why it was so hard is 'cause I'm like, "Oh, I thought we went to the depths of hell. Like how do we possibly... How could it be worse? How could..." And, um, from the outside, that was what's crazy. No one would have known, so it was like I was... Everything externally didn't match what was happening internally, so then I just felt like a fraud. I was like, "This isn't adding up and it's not real and it's not right. I want things to match up and look the same." I just felt like totally undeserving of everything that was happening. Darkest day. (sighs) Yeah, I mean I had many, but I'd always pull myself out of it. Like if I have one thing, I'm resilient. Like I don't really give myself a lot of... That's not true. I do positive affirmations for myself all day these days, but, but I know that my resilience is what's sling-shotted me the other way.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you ever think about quitting?
- LHLucy Hale
Acting?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm. Be- during that period of between-
- LHLucy Hale
Oh, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... 16 and 28 when you left
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Seriously?
- LHLucy Hale
Well, not, maybe not seriously because I didn't know what else I was good at. I didn't think I was interesting. I didn't think I was smart. I didn't... Like all of these things, and I truly was like, "Well, what would I do?" Um, and so I, I, I at times had the thought, "Could I do something else? Could I go home after this?" Um, but I never packed my bags or made a call to someone and told them. But, but, but there were times in my 20s where I was just thinking, "Is this what I wanna do?" But, but then it became about... It wasn't because I disliked acting. I loved it and I, and I always knew I was good at it, but it was just, "How do I manage my emotions and do what I love?" I was like, "I don't know how to do that." Now, I know how to d- I mean, I still have bad days, but I, I know how to handle it better. It's hard. (laughs) It's hard. I, I don't know. It's, it's a constant, you know, starting a new job, I really have to make sure I have my plan in place for what helps me feel safe.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you
- 1:03:37 – 1:05:56
Would you have been happier not acting?
- SBSteven Bartlett
ever ponder if you would've been overall happier for the last 33 years-
- LHLucy Hale
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... had you not been an actress?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah, I think about that all the time.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What do you think the answer is?
- LHLucy Hale
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You think you wouldn't have been happier?
- LHLucy Hale
No. I f- I mean, maybe I would've had longer periods of happiness, but I do believe that where I'm at now-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- LHLucy Hale
... what I've gone through to get the happiness I have now, like, "This is where I'm supposed to be and this is how I'm supposed to feel." And I don't think I would've gotten through that without the job I have or the things I've been through. I know it sounds grateful to say, "I'm happy that I struggled with addiction," or whatever it is, but I am. I, I, I just think that in order for me to feel whole and survive is to be creative, and I, I, I actually n- crave creating and, and, and acting, and I, and I was s- there have been moments in my life where I was scared that, "Oh, my God. I'm gonna have to keep doing this and not know if I love it." And it was... I did this show and the moment where it all, like, happened for me was this show I did called Katy Keene, short-lived, another short-lived CW series I did. I've had three shows on CW that only went one season. It's kind of a running joke now. Anyway, whatever. Katy Keene, New York, it was the show that made me fall in love with acting because I, I don't, I, and I don't even know what happened. I mean, it was a great show, great people, so much fun, living in New York, but maybe I stepped into my confidence more. I don't know. I just feel grateful that I can say, "Oh, God. I like what I do," 'cause that would be a bummer- (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- LHLucy Hale
... to like do all these things-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
... and then say... And I could, and that's the reality. Like today I could say, "You know what? I don't wanna act anymore," and I know that that's an option and isn't- and I know that I'm lucky to know that I have options. Like I have perspective on that too, but I also feel lucky that I do wanna wake up and say, "I wanna go. I wanna go act today. I wanna go work with these people and collaborate." Um.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you have a life throughout that, that Pretty Little Liars stint? Was there a, a life outside of the show? Was there-
- 1:05:56 – 1:10:43
Relationships
- SBSteven Bartlett
- LHLucy Hale
No. No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... relationships and-
- LHLucy Hale
Oh, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... socializing and-
- LHLucy Hale
Tons of failed relationships. No, I, uh, yeah, I had a social life. Uh, it was a lot of work. We were doing that n- nine months out of the year for eight years, but, but yeah, I, I dated and, and I traveled and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Failed relationships?
- LHLucy Hale
(laughs) Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why-
- LHLucy Hale
I, uh-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... why did they fail?
- LHLucy Hale
I think... Well, some of them, we were just young and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LHLucy Hale
... they're not supposed to work out, but I do think I, you know, and I'm very careful to not talk poorly about people ever. Um, a- and I do also realize my part of the equation. I'm not, I've never pointed fingers and said, "This person." Like I fully realize why some of those crash and burn because it was...... you know, hurt people hurt people. That's like a classic thing. Uh, I just think I was maybe attracting people that were a perfect storm for my-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Low self-worth.
- LHLucy Hale
... low self-worth, chaos. Like, I was attracting, uh, either people that had similar issues as me, and so it felt comfortable, or it felt like, "Oh, I can focus on this issue or your issue."
- SBSteven Bartlett
And try to fix them.
- LHLucy Hale
And try to fix them because it gave me a one-up. Or, you know, have you... I'm sure you've read about, like, love addiction, like love avoidant, love addiction?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, yeah, like attachment styles and stuff like that.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. And I always thought I was a love addict because I just wanted people to like me. I wanted this guy to like me and everything would be fine. But the truth is, I actually think I f- have fallen more under love avoidant because when people get too close, "Ooh, they're gonna see me, they're gonna know who I really am, and they're gonna leave, so I'm gonna blow this thing up before they leave me." But I can tend to fall into love addiction behavior if they, like, out-avoid me. Does that make sense?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- LHLucy Hale
So if someone is more avoidant than I am... Anyway. So yes, failed relationships, but-
- SBSteven Bartlett
But the- the- we... The first model of love we learn is our, our parents.
- LHLucy Hale
No, I totally get it. I, I grew up thinking love wasn't safe or...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Safe, same.
- LHLucy Hale
Or...
- SBSteven Bartlett
I thought it was prison.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's what I thought.
- LHLucy Hale
Or if love is this, I don't want that. Are you kidding me? So I never really had a model of what a relationship should be. And, and I... Maybe because my parents got divorced and I spent more time with my mom that I was drawing in more people who were similar to my dad. Uh, you know, there's that element.
- 1:10:43 – 1:16:24
Life after Pretty Little Liars
- SBSteven Bartlett
life after-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... Pretty Little Liars...
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You referenced this earlier. I, I can't imagine the situation where something is everything. It's nine months a year working. When you're not working, you're doing interviews about the thing. Everyone stops you everywhere you go to talk about it. It's, it's all-consuming, and then-
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... it ends.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. It was weird. It was weird and bizarre and scary because that level of notoriety and fame, success, whatever you want to call it, like, that is not really sustainable. And will I ever reach that again in my career? Maybe. Who knows? I don't know. But if I don't, it's okay. But because it was here for so long, for most of my 20s, and then when the show stopped, and things did shift. Like, I wasn't getting certain calls, like I wasn't being invited to certain things. People move on quickly, right? Like people just love content. Like they will move on to a new show, and, and it was so scary to be like, "Well, where, where do I figu- fit in? Do... Will people remember me?" And it's like chasing this high of whatever that experience was. And then I came to realize, like, that's so exhausting. Like, I feel like I'm okay now if I were to just do jobs under the radar for the rest of my life, you know? I... Like I said, I mentioned earlier, like having a couple of failed experiences post-Pretty Little Liars like really gave me... kind of grounded me in a, in a cool way. I feel like I needed that. Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was... You described it as a dark time, that, the post-PLL, Pretty Little Liars-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... um, phase of your life.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that's because you've got like, I guess, maybe you've got to... I'm assuming here, but you've got to re- refind out who you are again outside of the show?
- LHLucy Hale
It was that. It was like, "Am I going to work again?" You know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, really? Really?
- LHLucy Hale
I think we... Uh, not we all. I've had some conversations with people in this, a similar position where-I wanted to work, but you didn't ... 'cause people only want to see you as that one thing. And I, I'm also grateful for that period because then that was when I got to discover who I am outside of that. Who am I outside of my job? Who-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Who are you?
- LHLucy Hale
Woo, I can say that I ... I've always wanted to lead authentically and to show up however I am at any given moment, whatever that looks like, and I have not been able to do that until recently. I feel like I am confident in what I have to offer. I'm comfortable with who I am. I'm a good friend. I'm loyal. I'm honest to a fault. If you're in my circle, I'll have your back no matter the situation. I talk about the hard shit. I lead with my heart. I believe in justice more than (laughs) anything. Even if it's like I see someone cutting someone in line, I'm like, "That's not right." I'm passionate as hell, and I do believe my intentions with people are good. And at the end of the day, I can sleep at night really well because I like who I am, and it's just as simple as that. I like my choices.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But as you say, that's been a journey, right?
- LHLucy Hale
(laughs) Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you wa- used the word earlier, you used the word compassion to describe-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know, you talk about that like inner-child work that you've done.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, how do you feel about that person that you, that went through that journey?
- LHLucy Hale
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What would you say to that person if they were sat on a chair, they were on a third chair on th- on this table?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- 1:16:24 – 1:19:23
What are you still working on
- LHLucy Hale
- SBSteven Bartlett
We, when we, when we, um, talk in, in hindsight, we often create the im- impression that, and I do this a lot, that everything is great now, and that's just, like, not the nature of life, right?
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Life continues to be a roller coaster. Um-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... what are the things now that you're still, you still work on?
- LHLucy Hale
Oh boy. I'm so emotionally impulsive and responsive, like because I'm so ... I guess the word is passionate, but I, I really sh- ... Sometimes it's hard for me to see all sides of the coin and, like, see someone else's perspective. I, and I work on that a lot. I, I don't have all the patience (laughs) in the world, but I, I struggle with what people think of me a lot. I struggle with, "What am I doing? Why are you here? What are you talking about?" Like, those-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Always.
- LHLucy Hale
... that, that inner critic is loud sometimes. Um ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Th- it's, it's really ... What have you done in terms of, you know, you struggle with what people think about you sometimes. You've got, like, shitloads of followers, you know? You've got a lot of people that are giving their opinion on you at all times.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What have you done t- in terms of practical steps to protect yourself? Um, well, I've read somewhere that you went, you did, like, a rehab, like, a digital rehab at some point in your life.
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm. I mean, I do my own version of digital detoxing, which is simply it's not the first thing I look at in the morning. I don't grab for my phone, and I turn my phone on Do Not Disturb at, like, 7:00, and I don't look at it until the morning, unless it's to text Kate over there. Um, but I-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Were you addicted to your phone?
- LHLucy Hale
I'm still addicted to my phone. It's nuts. I'm like, "Yeah, I can go without getting wifi on this two-hour flight." Cut to me putting in my credit card info. It's so ... And it's this need ... It's not to, to know what people are thinking of me, but I am addicted to being available all the time, and that ... And I feel we're all guilty of that, like just being glued to this phone and texting back immediately or ... I don't feel the pressure to, like socially, uh, like on social media, I don't feel that pressure to need to always be present anymore. Um, a lot of times in my career, I have felt like it's expected and that...... uh, can feel a little draining because unless something feels authentic, I don't want to do it. Like- (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- LHLucy Hale
... I don't want to have to do it. I feel like I'm at this point now in my career where I don't need to, so I kind of just do what I want, which is nice and freeing. Um, but I do think it's important to disconnect, and that looks different for everyone. Um ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
30s.
- 1:19:23 – 1:24:15
The next chapter of your life
- SBSteven Bartlett
- LHLucy Hale
Yay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm in my 30s as well, interesting-
- LHLucy Hale
Congratulations.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Thank you.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um-
- LHLucy Hale
It's nice, isn't it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's nice. It's really nice. I-
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
20s is always ... Uh, well, for me, it was a bit of a mess.
- LHLucy Hale
Uh, same.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Trying to figure yourself out and, you know, deal- dealing with all these-
- LHLucy Hale
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... emotions and trying to ... whatever. But, um, in this next chapter of your life, what are you manifesting f- for Lucy?
- LHLucy Hale
Ooh. (sighs) I mean, here's something I've been working on recently because I am truly a believer in creating the life you want. I believe our thoughts are powerful. Our thoughts create everything. But I think where I've gotten stuck or in trouble or where a lot of people might be stuck is that we, you know, we manifest a person, a job, whatever, but then we hold on too tightly of ... to the expectation of what that is. Um, so it's like now I'm at this point where I want to manifest specific things but be okay if it doesn't work out exactly how I think and kind of looking at it as being kind of neutral with life. It's just like living freely, like going with the flow. I don't typically go with the flow. I'm not a go-with-the-flow kinda gal. Um, but I ... You know, my priorities are a little different now. Like I do want a family. I think recently I'm ... I decided I do want kids. I have two lovely dogs. My goal now, I want a farm with goats and chickens and so many dogs. And I just want to keep ... You know, I can say so many things about my career, and if I'm lucky enough to work and create and do all the roles I want to do, like that's freaking amazing. But mainly, I love discovering more about myself and why I am the way I am and why people are the way they are. Like I think this whole journey of self-discovery and self-healing is one that's constant. There is no end goal, and I'm just gonna keep ... It's a marathon, not a sprint. So, I just wanna keep on this really beautiful path that I'm on.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You proud of yourself?
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah. Yeah. And it's not for the reasons you might think. I mean, I've ... I'm proud of my work ethic and, and the things that I've accomplished, but I'm proud that I've faced what I thought were my worst fears about myself. I am proud of how I show up every day. I'm proud of how I treat people. I'm proud of having this conversation with you. I just knew. I was like, "Okay, well, I'm not gonna have any expectations about what this is gonna be. I'm just gonna follow his lead." And you present such a safe space, and I'm grateful that you allowed me to be myself.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm gonna ask you a really interesting question I don't think I've ever asked you.
- LHLucy Hale
I'm not gonna cry again.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Uh-
- LHLucy Hale
What is wrong with me? Okay, go ahead. Okay. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why does that make you emotional?
- LHLucy Hale
Because I don't really ha- I, I feel like I, uh ... It ... I think it's 'cause I am proud of myself. I think it's because I don't always have these conversations, or I haven't always shown up how I want to show up. I cry because this is just who I am today. I'm, I'm a weepy, emotional version of myself, and ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
You spent a long time-
- LHLucy Hale
And I'm-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... acting, right?
- LHLucy Hale
(laughs) Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Literally.
- LHLucy Hale
Yeah.
- 1:24:15 – 1:25:45
The last guest's question
- SBSteven Bartlett
tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest. Do you speak to yourself the way you speak to those that you love?
- LHLucy Hale
That's a really beautiful question. Um, s- I'd say about half of the time now, I do. I really feel like I show up for my friends, and I'm a words-of-affirmation gal. Like I always let people know I'm grateful for them, and I'm just like a lover, you know? Like I want people in my life to know I love them, and I ... But I can also have like a venomous tongue sometimes. Like I'm not-
- SBSteven Bartlett
To yourself?
- LHLucy Hale
To others. Some- It's like I can emotionally respond to people in an unkind way, but I always ...... hold myself accountable. So, to answer that question, I can be very kind and at times unkind to the people I love the most, and it's similar to myself. The- the cruel s- inner critic, self-critic, I- I only do to myself and, you know, I'm still f- finding ways to quiet that voice. But I have made it a habit to say nice things about myself and- and it feels silly sometimes and a little, like, ego- not egotistical, but like, saying kind affirmations to yourself feels really bizarre at the beginning, because we almost think it's unhumble or... Does that make sense?
Episode duration: 1:30:42
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