Chase Hughes: Why micro-compliance powers the biggest yeses

1. CHChase Hughes0:00

   This is how social media starts roping you in. This is how politics starts roping you in. This is how cult leaders will recruit you into a cult. It's the number one way that we influence another human being, micro-compliance. And hypnosis is a great example of this. Like, I can have a person laying on the floor unconscious in maybe a minute and a half, and it's very easy to do. Anybody can learn to do it. But one of the things you'll see me do at the beginning of that is, like, give me your hand. Put both hands out like this, and then flip them over. Look all the way up, and look all the way down. I'll make them do, like, 50 things. None of the things that I just did with them are meaningful. Everything was micro-compliance. You don't realize that you're going through massive amount of compliance. In order to get your behavior to change or influence another human being, use what works for brainwashing because our brains have not developed one more wrinkle in the last two hundred thousand years. So a regular example of this is novelty. Anything novel hijacks our brain. So if you're trying to change your beliefs or you want to lose this weight, change something up in your life. Change your wardrobe. Repaint the walls in your office. You need to tell the animal part of our brain here because this has been proven on fMRI studies that the decision shows up before we're conscious of it.

2. SBSteven Bartlett1:09

   What about human-to-human skills?

3. CHChase Hughes1:11

   So people are starving to have great conversations that are very influential, which means that if I'm an attorney, I can sway a jury. If I'm a hostage negotiator, I save people's lives. If I'm a parent, I raise better kids because I can communicate in a way that gets the outcome that I'm looking for. And you can do that with any of these techniques like negative dissociation, the childhood development triangle. There's this thing called the PCP model, and when it comes to influencing human beings, that is the most important thing that you could ever understand.

4. SBSteven Bartlett1:38

   That might just be the most important skill in the world. So let's do some role playing.

5. CHChase Hughes1:41

   All right.

6. SBSteven Bartlett1:44

   Guys, I've got a quick favor to ask you. We're approaching a significant subscriber milestone on this show, and roughly sixty-nine percent of you that listen and love this show haven't yet subscribed for whatever reason. If there was ever a time for you to do us a favor, if we've ever done anything for you, given you value in any way, it is simply hitting that subscribe button. And it means so much to myself but also to my team because when we hit these milestones, we go away as a team and celebrate. And it's the thing, the simple free easy thing you can do to help make this show a little bit better every single week. So that's a favor I would ask you. And, um, if you do hit the subscribe button, I won't let you down and will continue to find small ways to make this whole production better. Thank you so much for being part of this journey. It means the world. And, uh, yeah, let's do this. [upbeat music] Chase, the world is changing rapidly before our eyes on so many fronts in terms of geopolitics but also in terms of technology with this whole AI thing that's rapidly accelerating. And with that you've got things like robotics that are on the way and Elon Musk saying that we'll have ten billion humanoid robots in the world in the future. And these are gonna be intelligent robots because the software within them is now artificial, and it's incredibly intelligent. One of the things people say to me a lot is in a world where we're gonna have all this intelligence, what jobs are gonna remain? And one of the points of consensus from interviewing all these great AI experts is that human skills, any skills that are irreplaceably human, social skills, people skills, are gonna be of extreme value. You spend a lot of time teaching people these skills. I asked you a question just before we started recording. The question I asked you is, what is the thing you like talking about the most that you think adds the most value to people? What did you say?

7. CHChase Hughes3:29

   Helping people understand how to guide human decision and, and have great conversations that are very influential.

8. SBSteven Bartlett3:38

   What does that mean in, in real specific practical terms?

9. CHChase Hughes3:42

   It means that if we are in a conversation, I become more likely to help you achieve the outcome that I see for you. So if I'm a leader, then I can do that. If I'm an attorney, I can sway a jury. I can make a jury pick a certain decision. If I'm a hostage negotiator, I save people's lives. If I'm a parent, I raise better kids because I, I can communicate in a way that gets the outcome that I'm looking for from another person.

10. SBSteven Bartlett4:08

    That might just be the most important skill in the world.

11. CHChase Hughes4:10

    I think it is.

12. SBSteven Bartlett4:12

    Increasingly so in a world of AI where computers are gonna be able to handle a lot of the sort of intelligent white collar related stuff for us, and we're gonna be rendered useful only for that which humans can do, which is probably this stuff.

13. CHChase Hughes4:25

    Yeah.

14. SBSteven Bartlett4:25

    The IRL in real life human-to-human stuff.

15. CHChase Hughes4:28

    And I think people are starving for it. You've got a podcast that's non-performative, and people are attracted to realism. There's so much that's artificial and performative that people are starving for realism already, and this is pre-AI. This was starting to blow up because it just gave us a sense of something that was real. We are in a epidemic right now of loneliness where people are, are disconnected from each other, and these human skills are gonna matter more than ever as AI comes out.

16. SBSteven Bartlett4:58

    I, I was thinking about what you teach in terms of human behavior and getting the best out of people and influencing people to do what you want them to do, and, um, AI does a lot of that.

17. CHChase Hughes5:07

    It does.

18. SBSteven Bartlett5:07

    It seems like it's been programmed to understand human behavior and to get me to like it. So let's get into some of that human behavior that you think is critical in a world of AI. In a world of AI, if the skills that matter the most are human-to-human skills, where does one, where does one begin?

19. CHChase Hughes5:30

    Let's understand humans first. Like, how could AI compromise a person? And when it comes to influencing human beings, the most important thing that you could ever understand, whether you're a CEO, a, a mom or a dad, is this thing called the PCP model. And PCP is a three-step cascade that happens inside the human brain when we get influenced, whether we're doing something massively extreme like some Manchurian candidate type stuff, or we're, we're just having a sales call and we ma- we make a sale. Everything goes through PCP. So P is perceptionSo the first step to really changing somebody's outcome, getting you to make a decision later on, is to change how you're viewing this situation. So when people talk about owning the frame of a situation or redefining what a situation means right there is changing the perception of it. If we're just talking about AI, AI can say, "Yes, uh, Steven, I see what you mean, and I can see why you're frustrated." And you, you know, one of those like standard responses, but here's what's-- here's what this is really about, and it gives you this layer that makes you say, "Oh, shit," like this is... it's going deep. So now it's hit the P on the PCP model, so it's modified your perception of a situation.

20. SBSteven Bartlett6:49

    And how has it specifically done that there? Is it because it's acknowledged my point of view, but then ch- given a new one?

21. CHChase Hughes6:56

    Yes.

22. SBSteven Bartlett6:57

    So if it's just given me a new one, I might not have believed it, but because it first acknowledges my point of view before delivering it a different one, that's more effective.

23. CHChase Hughes7:05

    Yes. So a- and the biggest mistake that people make with language is language should be resonating and not directing. If you wanna speak well, you're not directing people to think certain things or to feel certain things. It should resonate with what they're already feeling and then start guiding them. So you're getting into their river, so to speak, and flowing with that first.

24. SBSteven Bartlett7:28

    Okay. So let's, let's do some role playing.

25. CHChase Hughes7:31

    All right.

26. SBSteven Bartlett7:31

    I say to you, "Chase, I think the sky is purple." Your job is to carry out the perception shift.

27. CHChase Hughes7:40

    Yeah.

28. SBSteven Bartlett7:41

    What would you say to me?

29. CHChase Hughes7:42

    [chuckles] So if somebody says something that is an idea that's far out there, I'll always acknowledge it, and I would say like every human being is different, and it's fascinating how many rods and cones we have in our eyes, how we all perceive things differently. And it's amazing when you see one thing that you might see something that's purple, and I see the exact same thing. We may be seeing the identical color, but our brains are just interpreting it differently, or maybe we have a different word for it, and it's amazing how much we agree on, and we just don't realize how much aligned we are with a, a situation in life. Does that make sense?

30. SBSteven Bartlett8:18

    Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 1:56:20