The Diary of a CEOPiers Morgan: Dealing With Repeat Failure, Death Threats & Regrets | E137
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:00
Opening, Role Reversal, and Early Curiosity About Piers
Steven Bartlett introduces Piers Morgan, noting the novelty of Morgan being on the interviewee side, and frames the conversation around how Piers became who he is. Morgan acknowledges his son pushed him to do the podcast and Bartlett signals an interest in Morgan’s formative years and psychology.
- •Piers is more used to interrogating others and feels mildly uncomfortable as a guest.
- •He came on partly because one of his sons is a big fan of the podcast.
- •Bartlett positions the interview around the making of ‘Piers Morgan the media anomaly’ rather than just current controversies.
- 2:00 – 9:00
News Addiction, Early Opinions, and Hunger for Fame
Morgan recounts being a ‘news junkie’ from age six or seven, reading newspapers cover to cover and obsessively following current events. He also describes a lifelong love of being the center of attention, practicing his autograph and writing to world leaders, with a clear intention to become famous.
- •By 6–7 years old, he was consuming the Daily Mail cover to cover.
- •As a teen, he was loudly opinionated in pubs and frequently thrown out for arguing.
- •He practiced his autograph as a child and collected signatures from sporting legends and world leaders.
- •He admits bluntly that he wanted to be famous and believes most public figures who deny that are lying.
- •He sees his value as offering brutally honest opinions to stimulate debate rather than consensus.
- 9:00 – 15:00
Bullying, Class Straddling, and Building Social Range
Morgan details his schooling, including a privileged prep school and then a local comprehensive where he was bullied for his double-barrelled name until his brother intervened. He argues these contrasting environments taught him about class chips, bullying, and how to be comfortable in any social milieu.
- •His full name, Piers Stephon Pugh Morgan, made him a target at the comprehensive; he was punched on day one.
- •Once his brother joined and physically stood up to bullies, the harassment stopped, reinforcing Morgan’s belief that some bullies only understand force.
- •He observed ‘snobs’ at prep school and ‘yobs’ at the comp, both with chips on their shoulders, while most people were fine.
- •He credits moving between privilege and non-privilege with giving him the ability to be the same person with elites or old village friends.
- 15:00 – 26:00
Resilience, Mental Health, and the Line Between Struggle and Illness
The discussion shifts to mental health. Morgan praises resilience and mental toughness, worrying that normal life problems are being rebranded as mental illness. Bartlett pushes him to consider the risks of minimising genuine suffering, especially given rising male suicides and under-reporting of distress.
- •Morgan admires figures like Tiger Woods as models of extreme mental strength and perseverance after catastrophic setbacks.
- •He believes society now sees stoicism and stiff upper lips as shameful rather than admirable.
- •He wants a clearer distinction between mental illness (requiring treatment) and ordinary mental health challenges (requiring coping skills and perspective).
- •He argues anxiety statistics are ‘exploding’ despite constant discourse and suspects the approach is wrong.
- •Bartlett counters by citing cases like Roman Kemp’s friend who died by suicide without warning, raising concerns about discouraging men from speaking up.
- •Morgan maintains he supports people talking and that he differentiates between ‘wallowing’ and serious illness, though he admits the line can be subjective.
- 26:00 – 35:00
Technology, Sensory Overload, and Generational Anxiety
Morgan reflects on how social media and real-time news increase anxiety by bombarding young people with graphic content and constant social comparison. He sympathises with this generation’s informational load while still criticising what he sees as a culture of self-pity.
- •He uses Dr. Phil’s anecdote of a Florida alligator attack that in the past would have stayed local but would now be globally viral within minutes.
- •Modern wars like Ukraine are consumed through unfiltered social media, intensifying anxiety compared to WWII-era information scarcity.
- •He notes FOMO driven by Instagram: young people constantly see the fun others are having, whereas he never knew what friends in the next village were doing.
- •He believes we are ‘celebrating self-pity and victimhood’—e.g., people proudly posting about repeatedly failing a driving test.
- •Bartlett agrees about over-labelling but still worries about judging which emotions are ‘valid’ enough for sympathy.
- 35:00 – 45:00
‘Wallowing’, Obesity, and the Risks of Bluntness
They drill into Morgan’s language, especially ‘wallowing’, and whether it could harm people with real issues. Morgan responds with an analogy to obesity and body positivity, arguing that refusing to name health risks is itself cruel.
- •Morgan objects to being told not to call people ‘fat’ when someone is clearly morbidly obese and at risk.
- •He cites a massively obese model on Cosmopolitan’s cover being celebrated without mentioning health implications.
- •He frames his ‘wallowing’ critique as targeting performative self-pity over everyday issues, not clinical illness.
- •He claims over-identifying as mentally ill crowds out resources for those in real crisis.
- •Bartlett keeps returning to the subjective nature of pain and the dangers of outsiders deciding what counts as ‘wallowing’.
- 45:00 – 52:00
Early Career, Fearlessness, and Workplace Toughness
The conversation turns to Morgan’s rapid rise in tabloid journalism and his attitude toward workplace confrontation. He attributes early success to fearlessness, thick skin, and strong family role models, while lamenting what he sees as a loss of banter and robustness in modern offices.
- •Rupert Murdoch made him editor of News of the World at 28; Kelvin MacKenzie at The Sun was a pivotal mentor.
- •MacKenzie said Morgan’s most annoying trait was bouncing back from savage bollockings with fresh scoops.
- •Morgan argues that being shouted at or criticised at work sharpened him rather than traumatised him.
- •He claims contemporary norms (seeing any raised voice as ‘bullying’) drain joy and humor from workplaces.
- •He blames a ‘woke brigade’ for labelling all criticism and banter as harassment.
- 52:00 – 1:03:00
Woke Culture, Free Speech, and The New ‘Fascism’
Morgan traces the evolution of ‘woke’ from concern about racial injustice to what he calls a censorious ideology that polices language and thought. He attacks cancel culture across examples from comedy, university campuses, trans debates, and J.K. Rowling’s treatment.
- •He says by the original definition of woke (opposing racism), he is woke, but modern wokism is different.
- •He describes today’s woke activists as wanting to ‘suck all the joy out of life’ and acting like the fascists they claim to hate.
- •Examples include Oscars hosts being punished for decade-old jokes while Roman Polanski received an Oscar post-conviction.
- •He is pro-trans rights up to the point where, in his view, they erode women’s rights—especially in sports.
- •He calls the handling of trans athletes in women’s sport ‘bullshit’ and says it unfairly drags many trans people into ridicule.
- •He views the cancellation of J.K. Rowling for believing in biological sex as evidence of ideological extremism.
- 1:03:00 – 1:12:00
Tribalism, Algorithms, and the Middle Ground
Bartlett and Morgan analyse how social media algorithms reward outrage and push people to ideological extremes, leaving moderates feeling politically homeless. Morgan positions himself in the common-sense majority rather than on a left–right axis.
- •Bartlett describes using Morgan, Hopkins, Kanye, and Trump in a slide to show that indifference is worst in marketing; polarisation keeps you in the conversation.
- •Morgan says he doesn’t see himself as controversial when one actually reads his arguments holistically.
- •Both note that they no longer identify clearly with left or right; extremes on both sides feel ‘nuts’.
- •Morgan wants a return to a culture where you can argue vigorously and then have a beer together.
- •He criticises universities for only tolerating one ideological viewpoint, undermining genuine education.
- •He cites Churchill on free speech requiring tolerance of views you dislike.
- 1:12:00 – 1:18:00
Branding, Controversy, and the ‘Opinion Business’
They explore the deliberate strategy behind Morgan’s public persona as a lightning rod for debate. He frames himself as being in the ‘opinion business’, leveraging controversy but insisting there are serious points beneath the theatrics.
- •Morgan emphasises confidence and self-belief as prerequisites for being the ‘center of conversation’.
- •He quotes Wayne Gretzky about taking shots and Mars celebrating failed products to learn from them.
- •He acknowledges that his business is lucrative precisely because people either love or hate him.
- •He admits enjoying provoking the ‘permanently offended’ but insists the underlying issues (e.g., vegan marketing) matter.
- •He draws parallels with Trump using tweets to force networks to cover him, and says if he’s not trending, he wonders what’s wrong.
- 1:18:00 – 1:23:00
Vegan Sausage Rolls, Hypocrisy, and Micro-Culture Wars
Morgan recounts the now-infamous vegan sausage roll controversy as an example of how minor provocations can become culture-war flashpoints. He stresses his objection is to marketing language and perceived hypocrisy in vegan ethics.
- •Ill with flu in Italy, Morgan saw Greggs launch a vegan sausage roll with ‘the wait is over’ fanfare and tweeted his contempt.
- •The tweet went viral; Greggs’ sales soared, and the CEO later thanked him.
- •Morgan argues that calling vegan products ‘sausage rolls’ hijacks meat language and supports the French ban on such labelling.
- •He points out that some vegan products can be less healthy (higher calories/salt) than fast food burgers.
- •He criticises activists who storm steakhouses playing slaughterhouse audio while ignoring mass bee deaths from almond/avocado farming.
- •He concedes he doesn’t care about vegan sausage rolls as much as Ukraine, but uses the story to illustrate intolerance for dissenting tastes.
- 1:23:00 – 1:33:00
Failure, Firings, and Reframing Catastrophe
They delve into Morgan’s pattern of big jobs and big exits, from The Mirror to CNN to Good Morning Britain. Morgan insists he views these as normal career transitions, not true failures, and advises others to use such moments to reset rather than panic.
- •He cites Churchill’s notion of success as going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
- •When he was fired from The Mirror, others saw catastrophe; he saw another chapter.
- •He distinguishes how others perceive ‘downs’ vs. his own relaxed view; he is usually calmer and more relaxed between roles.
- •He encourages people who lose big jobs to take time, clear their head, and resist the urge to immediately replicate the same job elsewhere.
- •He lists concrete successes: 1,200 CNN shows, top UK/US talent judge, taking Good Morning Britain from a 14% to 36% share.
- •He left GMB on a ‘point of principle’: refusing to apologise for disbelieving Meghan Markle.
- 1:33:00 – 1:42:00
Meghan Markle, Oxford Fights, and the Limits of Reconciliation
Bartlett probes whether Morgan would ever reconcile with Meghan Markle, given his pattern of falling out and making up with others. Morgan outlines his substantive criticisms of her and the Oprah interview, and says he’d welcome a tough, evidence-based interview with her.
- •Morgan contrasts Meghan’s Oprah interview (which he sees as unchallenging enabling) with the style of interrogation he’d prefer.
- •He questions her claims about being barred from getting mental health help and about royal racism, requesting specific evidence and names.
- •He highlights the broader reputational damage he believes her allegations caused the royal family, using the Caribbean tour backlash as an example.
- •He admits she was instrumental in his GMB exit, allegedly emailing ITV’s boss the night before, but says he doesn’t want to be ‘defined’ by her.
- •Asked about hurting subjects, he responds by asking whether Meghan considered the harm she did to him and the monarchy.
- 1:42:00 – 1:49:00
Regret, Kids’ Feedback, and the Personal Cost of Controversy
Morgan reflects on whether he regrets things he’s said and how his children challenge him privately. He also details the impact of trolling and specific death threats against his family, highlighting weaknesses in law enforcement and platform moderation.
- •He says his kids sometimes tell him he’s gone too far; the Meghan topic is one example they urge him to drop.
- •He welcomes vigorous debate with his sons in their WhatsApp group, insisting he wants them to be independent thinkers.
- •He notes that his children enjoy privileges because of his fame but also face abuse, especially during the GMB fallout.
- •A troll made a specific death threat against his eldest son, his ex-wife, and him; the case has dragged on over a year without resolution.
- •He calls out the irony of ‘Be Kind’ hashtag users sending vile abuse to his kids.
- •He frames these as real-world consequences of being a public ‘crusader’ against cancel culture and wokism.
- 1:49:00 – 1:58:00
Emotion, Long COVID, and Health as True Wealth
Bartlett asks when Morgan cries and if he experiences anxiety. Morgan argues he is largely stoic and un-anxious, but he describes long COVID as one of his most difficult experiences, offering him new empathy for chronic conditions.
- •He last cried at his grandmother’s funeral (2013) and once welled up at a film where a young boy is shot.
- •A decade as a newspaper editor covering tragedies like Dunblane, 9/11, and Diana’s death hardened his exterior.
- •He claims he doesn’t really get anxiety or nervousness, only excitement and adrenaline.
- •Long COVID left him with months of fatigue, loss of smell/taste, and ‘brain fog’, which he found far worse than a broken ankle.
- •He jokes about having to drink cheap, sharp wines he could actually taste, then acknowledges it’s a first-world problem.
- •He says the experience deepened his sympathy for those with debilitating mental or physical illnesses and reinforced that good health is a form of wealth.
- 1:58:00 – 2:09:00
Piers Morgan Uncensored and the Mission to ‘Cancel Cancel Culture’
In the final act, Morgan outlines his new show, Piers Morgan Uncensored, as a global, non-partisan platform for robust opinion and debate. He sees it as the culmination of his free-speech battles and as an intentional counterweight to cancel culture’s spread.
- •The show is backed by Rupert Murdoch and will air daily across the UK, US, and Australia, reflecting Morgan’s belief that debates are now global.
- •He praises Murdoch’s 91-year-old drive and free-speech absolutism, which he finds invigorating.
- •He rejects being categorised as left or right, preferring ‘voice of common sense’ aimed at the 80% middle.
- •He wants guests from both sides and insists he doesn’t expect agreement, only engagement and challenge.
- •He likens cancel culture to a ‘virus’ that can be as societally damaging as COVID if unchecked.
- •He expresses a grand ambition: to be remembered as ‘the man who canceled cancel culture’.
- 2:09:00
Closing Reflections and Advice to His Five-Year-Old Self
Bartlett closes with his traditional question passed from the previous guest: advice to one’s five-year-old self. Morgan says he would tell young Piers to follow exactly the news-obsessed dream he already had, embracing all the good and bad that comes with it.
- •He would advise his five-year-old self to ‘live exactly the dream you're currently dreaming’.
- •He wouldn’t change anything about his journey, including failures, because they all contributed to a rich life.
- •He reiterates the importance of finding something you’re passionate about and pursuing it relentlessly.
- •The episode ends on a note of unapologetic self-acceptance and affirmation of his chosen path.
