The Diary of a CEORita Ora: “I Lived With Constant Anxiety”…After Being Signed By Jay-Z At 18!!!
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 29,737 words- 0:00 – 2:27
Intro
- RORita Ora
I was on a rollercoaster ride. I was living my dream, but then when I would wake up, it'd be like (heart beating) silent, and it wouldn't feel nice. (heart beating)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Rita Ora. (instrumental music)
- RORita Ora
She's an international pop star.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Who's had the most solo female UK top 10 singles in history.
- RORita Ora
I'll never let go. Everything I've done is about to disappear. (tape rewinding)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Who is Rita Ora?
- RORita Ora
I came to the UK when I was one. We refuged from the war in Kosovo. There was a sense of having to overwork to prove myself. I was a naive, young dreamer, and that's exactly what you should be at that age. I'm ready for ya. I was backed up by Jay-Z.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Who would've thought Jay-Z would roll by with a brand new artist?
- RORita Ora
After my first album, everything shot to number one. You know, my life just changed overnight. I was looking for things in the wrong places, and I just went rebel. Eating really bad. I was drinking, and the media and all the fright, and I was having the craziest panic attacks.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It feels like a weight that you've been carrying for a long, long time.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, I mean, there's nothing that anyone could say when you feel broken that is gonna put you back together. Don't believe all the promises that people tell you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was the advice you needed but didn't get?
- RORita Ora
Oh, man.
- SBSteven Bartlett
In life, sometimes the external world will craft your narrative and your story and your identity for you. And often, we're told that saying less is more. Now Rita, for much of her life, has followed that philosophy, but today she's decided to say more. And what you learn from this conversation will be illuminating. It will be inspiring. It will make you understand Rita Ora, the person you've seen and heard about for a decade. But maybe even more importantly, through this conversation, the twists, the turns, and the untold stories of a young woman who was signed at 18 by Jay-Z, crazy, crazy story, you're gonna learn something about yourself. I know I did. (instrumental music)
- 2:27 – 8:16
Early context
- SBSteven Bartlett
Rita.
- RORita Ora
Hello.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Take me back.
- RORita Ora
(gasps)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Where'd you come from?
- RORita Ora
I am from Pristina, Kosovo, in a country called Kosovo. Wow. It's tiny. It's gorgeous.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What brought you here?
- RORita Ora
I came to the UK when I was one, in 1991. I was born in 1990, and, um, we refuged from the war in Kosovo, and I've been living in London ever since.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why did, why did your, um, parents choose to come here of all places?
- RORita Ora
I think it was just such an easy route as well. It was close enough to home but not close, you know? It was also a lot of family and cousins that my parents already knew moved to London, so it was kind of the safest bet for them, I think.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you were one, and your siblings were... your siblings were older, you know?
- RORita Ora
So it was, it was just me and my sister. So I was one, and my sister was three. She's two years older than me. My brother wasn't born yet. He was born here. Um, yeah, so it was just four of us really, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And when you arrived here, I read that you were taken to a care home.
- RORita Ora
So when we first moved to London, my- not that I remember properly, obviously, I was a kid, but my parents obviously asked favors from some existing friends that they already knew here, and we just moved around a lot. It wasn't necessarily a care home, but it just wasn't our home. But it never felt, you know, hard. My parents were really good at kind of still celebrating our birthdays and playing music, and, you know, my upbringing was so happy, and so I was really lucky. We never really saw the struggle. My parents were really good at that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know, when you first came here, sometimes you hear these stories of... And I've sat here with a lot of people who have come here when they were very, very young, and I've got one particular friend who's... had been on this podcast before. She's very successful. She's one of my best friends.
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
She came here when she was a baby as a refugee.
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When she first arrived here, there was a... an early, like, um, separation event because her parents ef- essentially couldn't take care of her, so they put ha- they had someone else looking after her.
- RORita Ora
Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, and then I, I sat here with Gabor Mate. Do you know who that is?
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
He's... I mean, he's one of my favorite people ever.
- RORita Ora
Wow.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And he talks about those, those early moments of-
- RORita Ora
I've seen all... kind of a lot of your interviews-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, really?
- RORita Ora
... but I don't know why I didn't see that one. That's weird.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you not seen that one?
- RORita Ora
I don't... No, I'm sorry. I have to check it out. Please don't hate me.
- 8:16 – 13:45
Did you ever feel different?
- RORita Ora
- SBSteven Bartlett
At that young age, y- I think we start to kind of piece, figure out who we are and how we're different.
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I think we start to develop suspicions that we're talented in this way or different in this way or-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... maybe we have a problem with authority in this way. What did you, at that young age, um, did you start to figure out anything about yourself and who you are and why you were different or if you were different in certain ways?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. I mean, parent evening was always an interesting one because my parents at the time couldn't really speak English. So my sister, bless her, even to this day, she was always the one that was like helping me with my homework or got to a certain age where she was kind of the one that was helping me with my math homework 'cause my mother couldn't really do it. So it'd be like, "Oh, Elena, can you read that?" Or my sister, her name's Elena, "Could you do that or can you do that?" So it was interesting to see like now as adults how much pressure my older sister actually had, and it was kind of difficult, I would think, for her. I don't wanna speak for her, but I think it definitely felt like we were sort of running, you know, the ship while they were kind of trying to collect all the pieces and put food on the table really. So yeah, primary school had a lot of ups and downs. You know, in school it was super fun. And yeah, and then we did like Cinderella and it was all these really fun like musicals, and I would get, you know, the... I got the Cinderella role in like year five, and that's when I was like, "Ooh, I could do this singing thing. I kinda like this." And that's when I think I really thought, "Ooh, I think I want to be a singer." So interesting, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How, how did you, how did you know you were good at it?
- RORita Ora
I didn't. I just got the role, and then I thought, "Well, I must be good since I got the main role of Cinderella." (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
But did anybody give you any feedback? Someone, anyone come to you?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. I did do school choirs. You know, I would go to the school choirs after school. Um, and I love this teacher. Her name was Susie, and she, um, really worked me hard, and she would really include me in all the choirs, and they would do a lot of charity events and things like that. And I would always take a solo, and she sh- actually called my parents and said, "You know, I think you should really try and hone in on Rita's music talent because I think she's got something special." And that's sort of where it started.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How did your parents receive that phone call? 'Cause they're traditional parents, right?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. (laughs) Well, my mum was really excited, and so was my dad, but my dad was more practical. I mean, they're kind of old school, you know? My parents are still... They were raised in Kosovo, so it was get married, have babies, you know? And so my mum always was a dreamer, you know? She definitely still is, and she was always like, "Sing for us at parties," and this and that. But I don't think either of them thought I would ever do a job in this, actually sort of do it for real. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you used the word resilience a second ago as one of the things that your parents taught you-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... I'm assuming from that that you mean that they... you s- observed them being resilient as well.
- RORita Ora
Hmm. They worked really hard. They still do. Even though they're getting a bit older and they kind of feel like retirement is close, I think deep down they don't ever wanna stop working. But they were so, so real in the sense of being completely open with money and work, and my father sort of doing double shifts sometimes. And, you know, my mum, when she would get stressed, you, it would really impact us, me and my sister, you know? And we always used to sleep together because, I don't know, I guess I don't, didn't want to sleep alone. (laughs) And so we would always kinda just hear them talking, you know, like mumbling away when we were younger. But it was interesting because, uh, it was so nice to have my sister with me. I don't know how I would've done that alone, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
What, coming to the UK and-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... k- growing up here and-
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just sort of tr- doing that whole thing I explained to you-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
... alone. I just...I can't fathom it, honestly. You know, there, uh, there are some friends I have that have no siblings that have the same sort of story as me, that have done it alone, and I'm just kind of like, "I can only..." I don't know. I don't, I just don't know. It's nice when you don't feel... When you have someone else going through the same thing as you, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Well, a lot of people as well don't have a situation where they watch their parents kind of like fighting to survive.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that's a, that's a, in some respects, quite a traumatic thing to observe, but it also means that there's a certain absence. I can relate to that with m- with my mother. Like, she was so obsessed with working that she would sleep in that shop, at her little corner shop.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it was like watching someone fight to survive. We, I feel like I have a privilege where I'm thinking more about, like, happiness and fulfillment and-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... all these next level things, but my mum was like food t- on the table, you know, attitude.
- 13:45 – 16:32
Fear you'll lose it all
- RORita Ora
like, "Is it enough?" But I'm always like, "I want more. I want, I wanna do it again." Um, "What's next?" And it just, I don't think it will ever go away. I don't think that feeling of me feeling satisfied will ever happen. I don't know. I love working, you know? I'm really lucky. I do do what I love. It's not like I wake up dreading what I do. But it's more like, yeah, you're right, like it doesn't... I just don't know if I will ever be like, "I did it!" You know? I'm always like, "Okay, so now what?" You know, "What's next?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is there... Sometimes when you have, um, a child that came here as a, as an immigrant or came here early and watched their, their... Like, watched the f- watched the generation above them fight for survival, they almost inherit this fe- this fear of losing it all, and that trans- I'm thinking about my friend here-
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... the one I said that you remind me of, in-
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... her, her story's very, very similar. Came here as a refugee when she was young.
- RORita Ora
Oh, wow.
- SBSteven Bartlett
She is an obsessive alcoholic.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I feel like... She called me the other day, in fact, and I'm sure she went by... I'll have to ask her, I can share this, but-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... she called me the other day, and she said to me that, um, because there was so much insecurity in her childhood, in terms of like things didn't feel secure-
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... um, she's, her work is the only thing that gives her that sense of security as an adult, so she's fighting to maintain that.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, I relate to that. It definitely is one of my reasons of purpose, for sure. Which is a blessing but also a curse, because obviously if things don't always turn out how you want, it ends up crumbling more of you than you need it to. Does that make sense?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
So you kind of feel less than rather than remembering everything else that you've done, because that one incident, for example, may have not of gone how you wanted it to, everything's gone wrong. And I think that's something that I've been really working on as well with my therapist. It's called, almost sort of like compartmentalizing things. But because my life is my work, it almost regulated my sense of happiness, which I think sometimes could be really damaging, you know. Um, especially if you kind of wake up not feeling good about yourself or you sometimes wake up and you're kind of like, "Ugh, I'm not feeling it today," which is, I think, what everyone goes through, and I definitely go through it. Um, you know, I've, I've really got to remember, you know, there are other points that bring me joy. That's something I've been really working on, especially in my 30s, now I'm getting a bit older. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And when you were, I think you were 15 years old, um, your mother, Vera?
- RORita Ora
Vera.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Vera?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Like aloe vera.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Same as my grandmother.
- RORita Ora
Oh, cute.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RORita Ora
It's a rare name.
- 16:32 – 20:45
Your mother being diagnosed with cancer
- RORita Ora
- SBSteven Bartlett
It is very rare.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
She was diagnosed with breast cancer. And this, from reading through your story, was quite a pivotal, seems to be quite a pivotal moment in your life, even still today, I think.
- RORita Ora
Oh, yeah, it was really hard for me. It was like... I don't know why I always say this, but, you know, I felt like my parents were like superheroes, like they were untouchable, undieable, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
And I was just almost like, "Nothing is gonna crack them." And then when I sort of saw my mum starting to kind of get weaker and weaker and l- lose her hair, I was thinking, "Oh my gosh, they can also die," you know? And it was almost like, "What am I gonna do?" And I took it upon myself to try and find a solution, and obviously, you know, I- I, I couldn't. But you don't think that all the way through. You're just seeing your mum just kind of really weak and, you know, I was skipping school, and I would just, you know, I just went rebel, and it was really hard for me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You went rebel?
- RORita Ora
Yeah, I just really went the opposite way, and, you know, my parents worked really hard to get me into this school, which was a, it's a really famous school, and it was a fantastic... Sylvia Young Theatre School. And it's like... I mean, it was the best times of my life, was at that school. But when my parents were, you know, struggling, my mum was ill, I just, I couldn't focus. I just couldn't focus in school. I was just distraught, and I just kind of wanted to be with her all the time, but she didn't want us to see her like that. So, you know, she wouldn't take us to her treatments, and she'd wear a wig and things like that, so she wouldn't really kind of... We wouldn't visually see p- the pain, basically.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You were trying to find a cure, you said. You were trying to-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... find like a-
- RORita Ora
Yeah. So weird, right? Like, I don't know. I think I was just, uh... I think me and my sister almost blamed...I don't know what w- we were just trying to find the answer, and it's like a- obviously, we would've done anything to get our mum out of that pain, you know? So, yeah, we didn't really know what we were gonna do, but we just went into sort of survival panic mode, and... Yeah. That was my experience. I was just really struggling with it. It was really hard for me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is Rita before that incident different to Rita after that incident-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in a, like a fundamental way?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. I just really do appreciate people, my parents more than I did before. So, you know, like every kid, sometimes your parents kind of get on your nerves, or you're like, "Ugh. I can't stand them when they do this or that," but I always think, like, you just don't know when they're gonna go, so I've really made a conscious effort to appreciate them more than ever. And if I ever see my siblings or the ones that I love kind of naturally just react out of instinct or something, I'm like, "Just remember." You know what I mean? It's like, "Just, they're your parents. You don't want that to be the last thing that you say to them," you know? I'm... That's where my head is at now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
We cope in a, a variety of different ways to, to these traumatic events.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Some people, y- you know, you described becoming a bit of a rebel. Some people, I mean, use work as a convenient dis- distraction. Other people go to therapy and confront it head-on.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How, how do you cope? How are you a, a coper when, when these kind of things happen in life? How, how does Rita cope?
- RORita Ora
Work. I just really throw myself into work, or I try and find a project that I'm really passionate about to just s- sort of distract. I'm, I'm good at distracting myself, for sure. Yeah. I mean, therapy's been an incredible thing that I've discovered, you know, uh, since I was 26, I kinda started. Um, and my mum always would say, "You should do it. You should do it." Obviously, she doesn't use her sort of doctorness on us, but, you know, she was really adamant on us doing therapy. And then I finally, you know... Again, you have to find it yourself, and so I did, and that really helps. But work is something I do really focus and distract myself with.
- 20:45 – 24:34
Getting panic attacks
- RORita Ora
- SBSteven Bartlett
This whole concept of, of like mental health is quite a new one in our society, um-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you s- I read that you started having anxiety attacks and panic attacks and stuff shortly after your mother's diagnosis.
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that... I'm presuming you hadn't had those before?
- RORita Ora
No. Mm-mm. I never really understood when people would say, "Oh, I have the panics," or, "Oh, I've got such bad anxiety." I would n- I was never really kind of like, "I don't..." But then it happened. I think it was a- the idea of losing the one that I l- the ones that I love that kind of put me into panic. I like structure. I like routine. I like trying to resolve situations. So-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Security?
- RORita Ora
Security, I was never really obsessed with. It's weird. I was more obsessed with like me just knowing that I have a routine to go to work. You know, I'm, I'm always in fear of losing everything that I've got. I don't think that will ever go away. And I actually spoke to somebody who's a very famous actor, and you'd never think in a million years that they have that fear, and he said that there's a therapist that just deals with the fear of losing, uh, th- the money, the, the f- whatever it is that they're obsessed with or that they love, at such a high level. I mean, this person is one of the biggest actors in the world. And so, I always thought, I was like, "What? How? This person deals with that?" I couldn't believe it. So it's nice to know that, you know. It's a common thought, I think, especially if you come from not a lot of money. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm. Yeah, and like if you come from a place where you've seen the opposite, but also just the fragility of, of, of it. You, I mean, you must've been inundated with stories when you were a kid of like, "I used to be a doctor, and now I'm-"
- RORita Ora
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... "having to go back to square one again."
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, 'cause your, your, your father was like a restaurateur back in Kosovo, and you, so you've kind of seen, even if you weren't there to see it, but you've heard the stories of going from here to here.
- RORita Ora
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Uh-
- RORita Ora
Really quickly, too.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really quickly.
- RORita Ora
It's hard, yeah. I mean, it is something that I like have nightmares about sometimes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- RORita Ora
Yeah, because... I think now, it's not just about me. You know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- RORita Ora
I think ever since I started, I was always speaking, I'd like to think, on the majority of people that don't necessarily get the shot that I got, you know, coming from where I'm from, being able to live my dream. If I didn't l- move to the UK, I don't really know what I would be doing. And so, I was always really vocal about my gratitude and sort of like, "This is possible," and that's why I work with UNICEF, and I go and do these trips as an ambassador, because I see these kids, and I really want to kind of put this hope in them. Um, yeah, that's a massive priority for me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Quick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people who watch this channel regularly and have hit that subscribe button. It means more than I can say. And if you hit that subscribe button, here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guests that you want me to speak to, and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode.
- 24:34 – 28:50
Why you?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Reading between the lines, I was- I was hearing like a- the gratitude, like the ... With that sometimes comes another feeling which is like, "Why me?"
- RORita Ora
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know?
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Of all the ... 'Cause you look back at the dominoes that had to fall for you to be here, and you go, "Ooh, why me?"
- RORita Ora
True.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why you?
- RORita Ora
That's a good question. Yeah, I guess I- I got something to say. I think if you have something to say and you can create this following of- of honesty, and- and you have this real fan base of people that think that they know you, I think that's something that could live on forever, and I think that's something that I inherit. I have this sort of genuine connection that c- I love people. I genuinely do. I love talking to people, hence why I got into TV. I do really enjoy communicating and making people feel what I'm feeling, or trying to give people a sense of happiness or joy, or just kind of being like, "You know what? I get that too." Or, "Oh, she's just like us."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- RORita Ora
'Cause that's what I was looking up to when I was a kid, you know? All those singers I loved growing up were super relatable and super transparent. Tina Turner, who has the same birthday as me so I never have met her, RIP Tina, but I always felt so connected to her because I knew everything about her and she was so honest with her story. And so that's sort of the- the footprint I wanna make. I want people to ... You know, I know not everyone's gonna like me, you know, it's- it's normal, but at least they're gonna know the- the story-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- RORita Ora
... and appreciate the climb, basically. That-
- SBSteven Bartlett
From- from that ... So the first time you- you- you joined that choir to when you first get signed, what happens in that period, in terms of, like, the things that you controlled to make you go from the choir to the record label? When you look back and go, "The reason why I got from there to there was really, it comes down to X."
- RORita Ora
Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is that X?
- RORita Ora
Showing up.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Showing up.
- RORita Ora
So the reason why I think I got there is because I interned at a recording studio when I was making people tea, and mopping the floors for free, and delivering backing vocals for free for people that needed harmonies. Craig David being one of them. And I was there, I was ready, I was available, I was existing within the atmosphere, and I was there at the right time. You have to be willing to get up and get out of bed and just be there. You have to show up. Whether it's, like, offering your work for a place, and knowing you're not gonna get paid, but you're gonna be amongst musicians or something like that. Or, it's about being heard and, you know, I would sing at my dad's pub. I would ... I'm on Portobello Market working in a sneaker shop, and I was controlling the music in the shop, and I would play, like, a demo of mine, and I would just try everything I could to just sort of be there, be present, be seen. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was your aim at that point? In- in terms of ... If I- if I had asked you, you know, "What are you gonna be when you're older?" When you were working in that shoe shop, or when you were interning, did you ... Would you have said, "I want ... I'm gonna be Tina Turner."
- RORita Ora
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you ... No, what would you ... (laughs)
- RORita Ora
I didn't know what I was gonna do. I didn't-
- SBSteven Bartlett
For real?
- RORita Ora
... have a plan. I just was like, "I need to figure this out." Because I left college and my dad was so mad at me. And I'd ... I mean, he didn't speak to me for ages (laughs) , and he just wanted me to have a real secure future, which I understand, but I just ... I said, "Dad, just let me do this for a year and if I can't do it, I will go back to college." And now I'm 31 and I haven't gone back to college yet. (laughs) It's never too late.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is he okay with it? (laughs)
- RORita Ora
I think he's okay now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay. (laughs) Good.
- RORita Ora
But I do think that there was a lot of fear circulating around that time of my life because I was like, "I have to figure it out." But you know what? There was a Steve Jobs quote, and it's kind of like, "If you have a plan B, you're never really gonna put your all in plan A." And I didn't have a plan B at all. It was like, working in the shoe shop, and then going to intern at the studio, and hoping something is gonna, like, figure out. I don't know, something was gonna happen.
- 28:50 – 30:15
Getting singed by Jay-Z
- RORita Ora
And it did.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What happened?
- RORita Ora
This A&R lady came in for another artist that was recording in that studio facility, and there was a demo that I lended my vocals on 'cause they needed somebody to sing it. Um, the producer that owned that studio was making music with a lot of other producers and musicians, and he didn't have a vocalist to cover this one song. Long story short, it got around and, um, they were playing this music 'cause they were selling these songs to their artists, and then somebody said, "Okay, well who's singing that?" And, um, it was me. And they were like, "We wanna meet this person." And that's kind of when everything started to click and ... That was Jay Brown who works with Jay-Z, and that was the whole introduction to signing to Roc Nation.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you ... I heard they got you on a plane, you flew out there, you went to some party.
- RORita Ora
I did all of that, yeah. I did the whole thing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You sang for them.
- RORita Ora
And-
- SBSteven Bartlett
And they signed you straight away?
- RORita Ora
Yeah, they did. They signed me straight away. Kind of like, that night I was exhausted. I was f- I flew in from London and it was scary but it was so exciting. It was like, "Da-da-da" everything was happening at once. And I just-
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you were how old?
- RORita Ora
Uh, just turned 18.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wow.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. And then I moved to Brooklyn. I went from sharing a room with my sister to having my own apartment in Brooklyn,
- 30:15 – 32:24
Advice you needed but didn't get
- RORita Ora
like overnight. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was the advice you needed but didn't get at that point in your life?
- RORita Ora
Don't believe all the promises that people tell you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Interesting. What should we do instead? That ... Other than believing the promises, we should ...
- RORita Ora
I think other than believing in the promises, you should work on what your craft is to make sure that you can stand alone and not need anybody else to help you stand up. That might not mean a straightaway number one record, but at least you have your DNA, and that for me is timeless, and it can really help you in the longevity of a career. Having a quick one-hit obviously is great, but then what? You know? And so that's what I've learned. It's like not everything is gonna go shh and then you're like, "I'm good forever," because it doesn't work like that. I wanted people to love me as a person and really sort of back me up because they liked me, and then came the music, and then came the TVs and whatever else that we're doing. But it was just important for people to really feel like they know me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- RORita Ora
Because I felt like if everything goes bad, at least people will love me as a human, which is a real kind of, I would say, uh, is it insecurity? Maybe. It- it- it is a bit of an insecure- insecurity sort of factor of wanting to feel wanted, but with music and with entertainment, your job is to really be present for these people and really show up for these people and everyone that's watching and to take them out of their misery. And so sometimes it's not about your misery or about what you're going through, and you've gotta really just be selfless.
- 32:24 – 35:49
A desire to be wanted
- RORita Ora
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you always had that in you, that desire to be kind of wanted? If you go back to, you know, the first 18 years of your life, have you always had that desire to just be wanted and to be accepted?
- RORita Ora
A little bit.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why are you smiling?
- RORita Ora
Because I remember, it was more about like, I don't know, I guess growing up I was... Me and my girlfriends, you know, we were like a- th- we were really sort of like flamboyant, you know, with our, like, looks, and we would wear makeup, and we would wear all these crazy clothes, and yeah, we did get attention for it. And sometimes it was the wrong sort of attention, but we were just sort of kids figuring it out.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
But that's why I'm laughing, because we were so not (laughs) knowing, but now thinking back, it was like, we had no idea what we were doing. Um, but that was my first feeling of like, oh, people are liking what I'm looking like, or they like what I'm wearing, or, oh, that feels kinda good, you know? And then I got into the public eye, and I was sort of like, yeah, it's so intense. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RORita Ora
It's not as controlled as it was when I was walking up and down Portobello Market. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm. You know, 'cause we- you talk about that moment of maybe you would've whispered in Rita's ear- ear and told her to, like, focus on her craft and what she can own so she's not relying on other people, but when you're 18-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and I suspect from where you come from, you just wanna kinda please people and you wanna just, any opportunity is a-fucking better than Portobello Road shoe shop.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, I was a naive, young dreamer, and that's exactly what you should be at that age. I mean, you're not supposed to be anything else. All you want is to just win, and you wanna do well, and you wanna impress, and I was backed up by some real big, big people, you know, Jay-Z and these huge artists that are timeless and fantastic, and I wanted to be as good as them. And so when I was 18, I was like, I would do anything to kind of be at that level, and everything that was given to me, I was sort of like, "Let's do it, let's go, let's go, let's go," sure, 'cause they must be right and I must be wrong because they're huge superstars, and I'm not. So there was that as well that was going on.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So interesting, 'cause I think even if people aren't in the music industry, they can relate to this in their everyday jobs, which is-
- RORita Ora
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... sometimes we think there's, we cannot question authority in any regard, and we cannot-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... question, if someone's successful and they have a path for us, we should just do what they say-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and follow that path. But-
- RORita Ora
But they're not always right, even the big, big guns, you know, like it's- it's about your story, it's, you know, you have your own script that's about to be written out for you, and I think now I'm at this point where I wish I knew that because I can really dictate that now, which is really cool. But I think that comes with age. I mean, what are you gonna do? You're young. You're not supposed to know all those things. You know, you've just got to hope- hope for the best. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
And learn from your mistakes, right, and make-
- RORita Ora
Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm not perfect. Everybody knows that. I think I've been a very transparent public figure, you know, and I've never sort of denied or... I've always been super honest with my fans, and I will continue to do that and sometimes make mistakes along the
- 35:49 – 38:26
Universal lessons you've learned over the years
- RORita Ora
way.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Because you've had such an extreme career experience starting at 18, what are some of the universal lessons that you might turn to someone who is a little bit further down- little bit further down the ladder in terms of their career? Maybe they're working in a completely different job. But some of that advice, you- you said like about questioning authority and that people don't always know what's best for you, but in terms of how to be successful-
- RORita Ora
Well-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... 'cause you would have seen both sides of that coin-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... with those eyes. You've seen why people come- become successful and why talent is often not good enough for some other people.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, it's true. Well, you know, I think it's about longevity, it's about being a businesswoman, and I think it's really important to get the right team, you know? I've had the same team since I was 16.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- RORita Ora
I don't really like changing people up around me unless I really have to. I like familiarity. I like consistency.Now, it's also about sacrifice. I think I've missed a lot of things, birthdays, family events, funerals, weddings, everything you can imagine for my job. So for example, going on tours, even going to visit things and seeing shows or going to get inspired and... You have to always be willing to work and be consistent in getting inspiration. That's also a big thing for me. Creatively, I think you have to be wanting to achieve those things. So it's like, "Oh, I wanna do a rock and roll album." Okay, so let's go learn the DNA of rock and roll and do it properly, or read a book. Well, I wanna be an author of self-care, or I wanna learn how to... I don't know. I do the homework. I'm a big person. I'm a massive nerd in music, you know. I do pop music, but I know a lot and people get really surprised. You know, I- I do play a lot of different genres and styles and all my inspirations come from me being a nerd and learning music from composers, to mixers, to producers, to who did what behind the scenes. It's like you have to do the homework and then you have to convince people to do it with you. That's like another stage. So you're constantly really just working, selling. (laughs) Yeah, I think especially with everything that you do, you know, it's like 10,000 hours. Like I really believe in that theory, you know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That takes 10,000 hours to become a master.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, I d- I genuinely do. I do that a lot, as much as I can.
- 38:26 – 41:13
Are you a confident person?
- RORita Ora
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are- are you a confident person? It's an interesting word 'cause it means so much, the word confidence, but do you just- do you think you're a confident individual? Let me define it. When you think- when you think, set yourself a goal or you th- you flirt with a goal-
- RORita Ora
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... are you the type of person that goes, "100% I can do that"?
- RORita Ora
I'm good at being an autopilot confident person.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What does that mean?
- RORita Ora
Where you can just slip into being confident, as in masking it as much as you possibly can. Like I'm... You won't ever see my face kind of feeling a sense of doubt or insecurity if I'm having to show up as Rita Ora, but I always have it going on in my mind. "Do they like this? Am I saying the right thing? Do I look weird? Am I wearing crazy clothes?" I mean, I do it because I love it and I go out there and I'm like, "This is who I am." But I have the doubts constantly in my mind. "Is it good enough? Is it good enough? Is it good enough?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's your journey with confidence been like? 'Cause people look at you today and I think they see you on the red carpets in these great outfits and stuff, and smiling and pat, pat, pat, pat, pat.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And they go, "Oh, she's just born confident. She's just born with it." And she's, you know, she's got... Self-doubt isn't a thing for her, never imposter syndrome, none of that.
- RORita Ora
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's just me.
- RORita Ora
No, I have it all like really intensely. But I do everything in my power to like keep my brain and my heart calm, so (sighs) my thoughts are gonna be there. I've discovered that and I've accepted that. But now I'm really getting good at controlling where they live, whereas before it was really hard for me to do that. And that's what therapy's really helping me do. So I've become really obsessed with my... with working out and being physical and figuring out what I eat, and I fast a lot and I do a lot of that and it kind of keeps me calm. I don't put myselfs- myself in situations where I'm gonna panic. Like if I don't wanna go somewhere, I just won't go. And before I'd be like, "Oh, I have to do this or I have to do that." And you know, I think as you get older you're like, "You know what? You don't have to do these things anymore." And a lot of meditating, a lot of incense and smells. I'm a big smells person.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
But these are my tools. This is what helps me. I don't journal as much, but I did journal for this album that's out and it was great. I mean, would I do it all the time? No, but I do more of kind of like voice notes and working out and meditating and eating well. Yeah, that's like my thing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you g- gone on a bit
- 41:13 – 47:52
Do you now understand how you truly feel?
- SBSteven Bartlett
of a journey with understanding how Rita's feeling? Because I- I hear the 18-year-old that moved to Brooklyn, that seemed to be a- a person who was very much just listening to the external world's-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... impression of how she should be feeling.
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
"You should be happy now."
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And then it seems through your story that there was kind of a... there's been a pivot helped via therapy, where you're getting better at understanding how you truly feel in situations.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, but you know, it's still a struggle. You know, I've felt like... I mean, like anyone at... When you feel overwhelmed with something, it's like your whole world is falling apart, you know. It wasn't just work, it was everything, like my- my love life, my friendship with my friends and I wasn't paying attention to, you know, the- the ones that really loved me for me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When was this?
- RORita Ora
Well, just sort of in my 20s.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right.
- RORita Ora
After my first album, everything shot to number one, you know, my life just changed overnight. It was like, "Okay, let's go." And so, you know, I was just doing that, I was living my dream, I was, you know, going out with my band and, you know, uh, just not really checking in with my closest friends and my families, and I just... I lost touch a little bit. I was on a roller coaster ride and then I kind of brought that back, you know. I did when I... in my second album, and now my third album, this- this time round, I'm, you know, I'm in a completely different sort of head space.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was the... How did you know you'd lost yourself? 'Cause we find out... we typically find out after-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... because of some kinda symptoms. (laughs) In the moment we don't know about. What was the symptoms that you'd lost yourself?
- RORita Ora
Well, the search of being wanted and being loved by, you know-... boyfriends and things like that. There was-
- SBSteven Bartlett
What do you mean?
- RORita Ora
It was just, sort of, like my 20s felt, uh, like, I was kind of lo- alone. And so, you know, I was looking for things in the wrong places, you know, with love. And sometimes it wouldn't be good for me, and people would tell me and I wouldn't listen. I was eating really bad, I was drinking, and my dad was so, so, so on board with, you know, helping me. And, you know, I grew up in a pub, so it was like, there was always drinks going on and, you know, parties, and I was jumping on the bar and singing songs. And so alcohol was just, like, a real normal thing in my family, and it was fun. It was, it was just a fun time for me in my 20s. But then, when I would wake up, it'd be like silent and it wouldn't feel nice. So yeah, that's what I mean about my messy 20s. It was, it was just a journey. It was like what anyone would go through, though. You know, I've, I've learnt to understand that not everyone figures it out in (laughs) their 20s.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's such an interesting way to describe it. It was silent and it didn't feel nice. So many people can relate to that.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Yeah. You know, you don't wanna live in silence sometimes, 'cause you don't wanna kind of understand you. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's so true.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. And so you're kind of like, "Put the radio on. Go do, do, do, do, do something, I don't know." Anyway, that was me. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you did something that most people who would say that didn't do, which was then you went and you started your journey in therapy, which is literally the opposite, which is, "I'm gonna understand me."
- RORita Ora
I don't know if this is a thing, but quarter-life crisis. Is that a thing?
- SBSteven Bartlett
We've heard that before, yeah.
- RORita Ora
Is that like a known phrase?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. Well, I've heard it before.
- RORita Ora
But when I was 25, it was a real weird time for me. It was like my second album was kind of coming out-ish. Gosh, I'll never forget this. I was doing the Prince's Trust, and I'd been working with him for a long time. But there was one occasion I did it at the Royal Albert Hall, and I was wearing a blue outfit, and I remember Tom Hardy was also in the line to meet our now King. And I went into that bathroom and my hands were tingling, and I was having the craziest panic attack. And that was the first time when I, in, when I was 25, and my tour manager Rich who's been with me for ages. I was like, "Rich, I need, I need a couple minutes. I don't know if I can do this." Like, I couldn't, I thought my legs were gonna give way. And I don't know what was going on. I've, I've met, um, our now King before. I mean, I don't know. I was performing that day as well. I just don't know what happened. I went into the bathroom and I was like, whoo, and I mean, I felt sick. I didn't know what was gonna go on. And then I got out and I stood in that line, and I just went-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- RORita Ora
And I just met Prince/King Charles, and I just was not there. It was m- But, you know, if you look at that photograph, you wouldn't even know. It was... And then I went out and I sang, and I messed up the lyrics and completely got it wrong, but nobody really noticed. But that was when I was, like, in my, when I was 25. And ever since then, I was just petrified of that feeling again. And I learned that, through therapy, that is, you get panics from not wanting to get a panic attack, and that's how you sort of drive your panic attacks. That's what happened to me. I was more in fear of feeling like that again, that would put me into the-
- 47:52 – 50:09
What's your relationship like with trust?
- RORita Ora
you know, it just built up on me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's your, like, relationship like with trust?
- RORita Ora
It comes in waves. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Because I was thinking about that experience at 18 you were just saying about, like, kind of trust yourself more. Um-
- RORita Ora
Trust in work is very slim.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What about trust broadly? You said it comes in waves.
- RORita Ora
Trust broadly, I'm very, very trusting, I think, more to a fault, you know. I also, I like to give people t- chances rather than give them no chances, which sometimes has kind of put me in a predicament. But again, I just see the best in people and I always have, and I, and I hope that people do that for other people. That's why I do that, you know? Uh, now with things like, "Oh, you know, if you, if you do this with us, then, you know, we can maybe achieve this for you that you've always wanted to achieve in your work life," that is something I'm very questioning with. Like, "If, if you come with us..." Well, I need to see the proof before-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- RORita Ora
... I do that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like big promises.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. I think that's, again, maybe something to do with my experience in my work life, you know. It's just, I've been disappointed so many times, and I've been left with nothing so many times, uh, that I, I...I just don't ask anyone for anything anymore, basically. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
But it's got you far. I mean- (laughs)
- RORita Ora
Yeah, but-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... even, even that trust seems to have got you to an incredible, incredible place, even if it maybe have, it's hurt you along the way.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Well, because I've made incredible relationships. That's the one thing I'm very grateful for. Even if I've been disappointed, and sometimes those bridges haven't seen the end, I've created incredible relationships with people that have seen my struggles and have seen me work really hard and in a circumstance unfortunately not get to where it needs to be, but have seen, "You know what? Rita really did work hard on that." And years down the line, they would call me and be like, "I remember that and do you wanna do this?" And-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
So you just never know why things are happening to you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you planted seeds, essentially.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. I, I really did, and I, and I made really great friends, um, genuine friendships, and I don't really... I never really knew what they did, and some I did, but it didn't matter. It was just about connecting. Connecting is really important.
- 50:09 – 52:25
Your new album
- SBSteven Bartlett
So five years ago was the last time you released an album. What, what goes into this music? This... 'Cause music, music I, I see it as like different chapters of your life. It's the same with like books and stuff. It's a chapter of, of who you are often. Um-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What, what are you pouring into your music these days? Like what experiences are you pouring into them?
- RORita Ora
So, uh, you know, I've been in the business now for over a decade, so I'm looking at timeless, I'm looking at pop icon, I'm looking at things that can stand the test of time because I'm a 360 entertainer, and what does that look and feel and sound like? And so now I'm, I'm at that point in my life of like how are we establishing this work ethic that I've done all these years to get to this point, and how are we gonna become the new Rita Ora, pop star in her 30s, and enjoy the ride, you know, and really bring people along for the journey? And so that's what my album, You & I, is. It's like a rebirth of this incredible position that I'm in of owning my masters, being in charge of my decisions with music, and having an, an incredible team that can see the future. It's about longevity. It's like, okay, well, this is another step to this point, and then hopefully when I'm like in my 50s and 60s, you'll look back and be like, "She's still here." You know? That's the goal. That's the aim and the journey of life. That's what I love about Kylie Minogue and Jennifer Lopez. Like these, these women stand the test of time in my opinion, and they keep coming back and delivering, and that is something that I aspire.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's not easy to do though.
- RORita Ora
No, but it's also... Yeah. It's not easy, but they've done that by accepting failure. They've accepted f- failures at certain points in their careers and have kept going and kept driving and kept thriving, and then they're still here.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What failure have you accepted?
- RORita Ora
(sighs) You know, like certain things maybe not positioning chart-wise as well, or making decisions that may have not been right, mistakes being made
- 52:25 – 55:01
How are you at dealing with failure?
- RORita Ora
or-
- SBSteven Bartlett
How are you as an individual with dealing with those moments? Like honestly. When those things happen, how does... if I'm a fly on the wall?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Regret is horrible. You know, I know a lot of people can relate to that. But it feels... You know, I, I was... I feel broken. Like it makes me feel like everything I've done is about to disappear. Again, back to that fear of sort of losing everything. (sighs) And, um, you know, when the world is also looking at you, I don't know, you just... uh, you just break. You just break down. You just get so fearful and, um... You know, all I was thinking about was like my mom and dad because they've worked so hard to get me to this point, and you know, it's not... Again, it's not just about me, you know, on my boat that I'm keeping afloat, you know. I've got my whole family. And so, you know, you can't help but always blame yourself for everything, and the only way forward is to, again... You just have to just keep going. But at the time, you know, you know, you get dragged through hell.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's a lot, Rita, a lot of responsibility. It feels like a weight that you've been carrying for a long, long time.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, because, um, I've always just been myself. I've always just tried to be really genuine, and I've never changed for like who I am. And that's probably why that... That's probably why I do make these sort of... You know, I don't always get it right. (laughs) Like who does? Do you know what I mean? Um, but it makes... I, I've... um, I feel more human. How about that? You know, I'm just a human, you know, at the end of the day. So the media and all the fray, the craziness that comes with what I do, I've now learned to really sort of separate that like work life and real life. That doesn't feel like my real life anymore. My real life is having dinner at home and like hanging out with my husband and becoming a stepmom and trying to figure out how to cook for kids. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
You know, that's kind of like, like that... The real life is
- 55:01 – 58:52
Having a lot of people rely on you
- RORita Ora
that for me now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You've been taking care of your family for... since, since much younger than anyone should really be.... you know, taking care of their families, from what I read. Um, looking after them, paying for your parents'-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... house and stuff like that.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you talk about the fear of losing it all as well, is- is... and you mentioned your- your parents there, which was kind of surprising to me, but it brought me back to what I- I'd read about your early years of, like, feeling like you're almost carrying your family too, to some degree.
- RORita Ora
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Not just yourself, but there's a lot of people relying on you.
- RORita Ora
Yeah, I don't know if that's a... immigrant mentality.
- SBSteven Bartlett
100%.
- RORita Ora
You know? It's 'cause it's almost like... Family is a big thing for me. We... Family is huge for us. So it's like when one goes, we're all going. Like, that's just how I was raised. So, maybe that is something to do with that, you know. Kind of all seeking refuge together is that sense of family. So yeah, I guess it was... For me, it was a no-brainer. Like, it was just what I was... I had to do. It wasn't even like I had a choice. In my mind it was like, "Well, that's obviously gonna happen for my parents. I'm obviously gonna get that for them." I didn't think there was any other thing to do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Broken is a strong word.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's a really strong word. Do you mean that, that word broken?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Kind of... Yeah, I mean, there's nothing that anyone could say when you feel broken that is gonna put you back together at that point. When you're like at your lowest, the only way you can get out is if you start climbing. I don't... I wasn't hearing anything when I was broken.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When were you broken?
- RORita Ora
A couple times. I mean, there's some things that happen behind the scenes or there's obviously public things that you- that everybody sees of when you know you get plastered on the covers of (laughs) magazines and tabloids and things like that, and you just feel super violated, you know. But it's something that comes with what you do. It comes with what I do. So it's like a bittersweet, you know. I'm- I've never been a complacent person. I'm not complaining about anything that comes with what I do. It's just something that you have to really work on dealing with, because it's gonna happen inevitably.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Nobody will ever see the consequences of it though. Like, if you just say the word broken to me I'd think, "Really? Like, there- there's stuff that's taken you to that place?"
- RORita Ora
Yeah, for sure. Of 100%, m- multiple times. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you remain strong. At- at least from external perceptions. Maybe that's- maybe that's an incorrect thing 'cause it's... You- you talked about masking.
- RORita Ora
No, I do. I am strong. I am. I think the fact that I'm still here means I'm strong. I mean, I run a business, you know. I've got people that... I employ now, you know, and I feel like... (sighs) you can always come back. It never ex anyone out because in my l- experience, it's like you can really help people that you don't even know you're helping. So yeah, I mean, I'm strong because I'm very inspired again, and I'm loving the idea of rebirthing and positioning and owning a business and, you know, running a label and being on TV and doing film and doing music. There's never a break so i- it's like we're always on the go, me and my team. Our bags are packed constantly, and so,
- 58:52 – 1:05:12
Rita in a romantic relationship
- RORita Ora
you know, you have to be strong not for m... If it's not for me, it's for them.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Rebirthing-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... introducing the new Rita Ora.
- RORita Ora
Yes, that's exactly how I feel. It's like a new lease of life. We're on another chapter now. This is the new chapter of Rita musically. She's married. It's like I'm now a stepmom, you know. There's, like, so much that's going on in my life now that I wasn't before, you know. It's cool.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How did that change you, marriage?
- RORita Ora
It didn't really feel any different, honestly. Um, Taika and I were friends for so long before we got together, and he likes to say, "Before you ruined it all." (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RORita Ora
Um, but it didn't feel any different because it was such a sort of natural progression to our already withstanding friendship that it was kind of like best friends getting married. Like, that's what it felt like. And we are the same person. We think the same, and our lives just really do blend even though they're both crazy. So, I think what it's done for me, it's- it's actually made me more excited about achieving things and having new goals that I wanna achieve. And I think that we really push each other in that direction.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Because home is stable now.
- RORita Ora
Because home feels super stable.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Which is a great platform to achieve.
- RORita Ora
And I- I felt like it was a real big achievement for me, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- RORita Ora
T- because I just didn't think that was ever gonna happen to me-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wow.
- RORita Ora
... because I was never in one place. I was never... I never gave myself the time to... or the energy to put into trying to find a soulmate or do that, because I was always like, "You're either coming on my roller coaster or you're getting off because we're not stopping." And it was really difficult to find somebody that could really manage the pace that my life is in. Um, and then, you know, I met somebody that also lived a life, you know, and has this ability to, you know, be a father and have this creative aspect, and that was really impressive to me. And I wa- and I was like, "Wow, you know, somebody can do it all."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Here's the thing though. So if you had met him when you were 24-
- RORita Ora
No. Hell no.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The- there you go.
- RORita Ora
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
So it's not really about the person. I think it's more about you-
- RORita Ora
No. It was.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and where you are at.
- RORita Ora
I was ready, exactly. And this is what my album's also about. It's not about hoping somebody's gonna come and fix everything for you, 'cause it's not what I stand for. That's not what, like, I preach. But it is about, you know, you being in the right frame of mind.And I definitely was when I first met him in a, you know, in a different light in Australia. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You were in the right frame of mind when you met him?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I- I'm so in- intrigued by how our early experiences shape our attachment styles, romantically.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like for me, I was... I had no chance of meeting anybody. I'm shocked that I have... I'm in a relationship now because-
- 1:05:12 – 1:06:42
Negativity from the press
- SBSteven Bartlett
report on her in a different way. Maybe they're having a crisis meeting at the moment.
- RORita Ora
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Why did you say that? (laughs)
- RORita Ora
'Cause now it's less about like, "Oh, Rita's seen with da-da-da-da." It's like I feel like now they don't know what to say. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RORita Ora
It's hilarious 'cause I do believe that. I think now everybody's understood and seen this sort of transition, and I think that... I don't know what they... what goes on in those tabloid offices. But, uh, I do feel like there's been a shift in the narrative now, because they've also exhausted and gone every single route on me, that I feel like now they're like, "All right. Let's just give it to her. She's calmed down a bit." (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did that- did that ever bother you? Honestly.
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
On a human level. I- I think this is important because people don't understand that the things written have a real human consequence further down the line on the individual-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... because we... because obviously, if you then react to it publicly, that's a new story.
- RORita Ora
I hund-... I mean anything-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know what I mean?
- RORita Ora
... you do, it's like a story. Um, you know, I just... I've learned over the years that, um, less is more. And if you would like to connect or kind of explain your side of things, you know, you do it through art. And so with me, what I've learned is I do it now with my music, and so I tell my story through my songwriting and through videos or things like that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And your husband, he's
- 1:06:42 – 1:10:34
Your new tracks
- SBSteven Bartlett
a- an Oscar-winning director, so you've worked on some of the- the music videos with him?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. It was-
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's that like working with your husband?
- RORita Ora
Amazing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- RORita Ora
You know... Not m-... I- I'm also a fan of his, you know, so it wasn't just like, "I'm working with him, let's just go for it." You know? I understand, you know, I've... Being lucky to work with him. I mean, I know he's my husband, but I don't take it for granted, you know. Like he's written some of my favorite films, and Jojo Rabbit and things like that, you know. Those are real iconic, stylistically important films of our time. For me to work with him was fun because I knew he was gonna throw things at me, you know, like, "Do this and do that!" And like that's how he works. It's just like da-da-da-da-da-da-da. But there's a beauty to his madness, and, um, I was really honored to be amongst that thing at that night. We did it actually all in a day. And praising you, it felt like a mini-movie, it was awesome.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Those, I think there's three records that I listen to upstairs.
- RORita Ora
Oh, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Pretty sure those are the three that are coming, uh, on the album, You & I. They're the three singles you've released, right?
- RORita Ora
Yeah, yeah. What did you listen to?
- SBSteven Bartlett
All of them.
- RORita Ora
Oh, great.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So all very different.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
They all made, inspired significantly different feelings from me. Praising You felt very like I wanted to party.
- RORita Ora
Great.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It felt like I'd be, like I'd listen to that in the gym. One of them made me feel a lot more, um, romantically nostalgic-
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... where you're talking about how someone only loves you in a certain situation.
- RORita Ora
Oh, You Only Love Me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RORita Ora
That's probably that one.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yes, that's obviously, yeah.
- RORita Ora
What I've tried to do with this album is kinda take you on a thought journey. So it's like Don't Think Twice is about kind of knowing you like someone and jumping in, which is the opening track of my album, and not thinking and just sort of going with it and seeing where it ends up, because you don't know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
You always, you know, you think, "Ah, I can't do this, I'm scared," but you just don't know what's on the other side. And so then You Only Love Me is like that era where you start meeting someone and then you're kind of like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Down.
- RORita Ora
... "Can I tell them I don't wanna see other people or is it too soon? Am I gonna be crazy if I tell them, 'Let's be exclusive'? Or like when is it the right time? Do you only call me when like you've had a couple drinks and you've got that confidence boost? Do you actually like me?" It's like all those questions you ask yourself in the beginning, but really what you wanna say is, "Let's be exclusive and w- and I love you."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RORita Ora
But you don't wanna look crazy.
- 1:10:34 – 1:14:08
Are you driven or dragged?
- RORita Ora
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are you driven or are you dragged?
- RORita Ora
I think I'm driven.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. I'd like to say I'm driven. A lot of that h- actually confidence has come from me working out, like waking up and going to the gym. I would never do that before, if it, especially knowing I have a long day, you know? Now I wake up an hour before that just to work out. I think that's drive. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RORita Ora
'Cause it's also like you're, you're already exhausted, you know? You go to sleep and you wake up and you know you have to do it. And after you do it, you know, you feel good. Uh, there's never anyone that I've met that has worked out that has left being like, "Oh, I feel terrible."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm. That's a non-negotiable.
- RORita Ora
Non-negotiable. It's like t- that's, I think that's why I feel like I'm driven.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What else is non-negotiable in your routine? You've talked about meditation a little bit, but is there anything else that's your like ritualistic non-negotiables?
- RORita Ora
Yeah. Finding a good book.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Interesting, you big reader.
- RORita Ora
Like I've, I've learned to... I've joined a little secret book club under a false name.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RORita Ora
And I love it. And they teach me about books. Right now, I'm meeting, uh, I'm reading Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Tomorrow. Have you read that book?
- SBSteven Bartlett
No.
- RORita Ora
It's fantastic. It's, it's just so good. It's about these like two friend... It's like a, in- it's a, it's a description of a friendship that you think goes into a love, love-life fest-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
... but it doesn't. It's all about this specific friendship and it's so interesting. And Klara and the Sun, which is another great book about this kid who has an AI robot and it sort of like becomes really human-like. It's really interesting. So yeah, that brings me a lot of kind of joy. And yeah, it's just kind of discovering, like I love discovering things. I'm always looking for new music, new artists, films that I haven't seen. Like, I'm really into sort of discovery and that really inspires me to kind of, inspires my creativity. And I'm already thinking the next album and this one's out July 14th, and I'm already thinking about the next one. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your creativity comes from a lot of places, right?
- RORita Ora
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I can feel that in you.
- RORita Ora
People for sure, a lot to do with people. And like I'm always interested in people's stories. Uh, I mean, like you, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
You're so good at asking people the right things and I kind of really like that. I do that in genuine conversations I have at dinners and things like that, um, because you just never really know what you're gonna get out of it, you know? And so yeah, I continue to do that. So if you wanna come to dinner with me, get ready 'cause I'm-
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm really busy that day, but I-
- RORita Ora
Ugh.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm joking. I'm j- (laughs)
- RORita Ora
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Of course I wouldn't. July 14th-
- 1:14:08 – 1:19:17
The last guest's question
- RORita Ora
my most artistic album, for sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
We, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, and they, they don't know who they're leaving it for. Um, the question that's been left for you-
- RORita Ora
Uh-oh.
- SBSteven Bartlett
This is quite ... I think this is quite a good one for you.
- RORita Ora
Okay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
People always shit themselves when we get to this point, but I don't know why. I thought my questions were difficult, but, uh, question for you is, what would you most like to be remembered for when you die?
- RORita Ora
Wow. (sighs) My work ethic and being a nice person. Those two. Being like, "Wow. She really did that." And being really sort of received and everyone saying, "She was just such a nice, jolly person."
- SBSteven Bartlett
It brought me to something that I was gonna ask earlier, just that, that point, which is, it appears to me that when I sit here with, um ... The fact that you said work ethic, when I sit here with male artists, they rarely, they very rarely say that.
- RORita Ora
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a whole nother conversation. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's a whole nother conversation. But it's about the double standards around like-
- RORita Ora
Maybe it is that. You know, being a woman too. 100%. No, it's not maybe. It definitely is that, I think, as well. Especially with everything is ... From my experience only, in the music industry, but I imagine it does definitely filter into any sort of aspect. You know, being heard, being spoken, being, being heard on the table, you know? And also not being forgotten. That's another thing. It's like you don't ... You may have done something at some point, and then it could almost be th- the credits could go somewhere else. And so you have to almost be consistent, I think, as a woman, more-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
... than ever.
- SBSteven Bartlett
To get the credit you do.
- RORita Ora
Almost, I guess. Yes. And opinionated, and it's so much more shocking, I would say, if, if a woman is more opinionated. I don't know why. But, you know, I don't think, in my world, that that ain't going anywhere. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RORita Ora
But I feel really kind of ... Like there's a responsibility, for sure. Especially for the young girls coming up. I want them to watch this and feel really kind of like inspired by it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(smacks lips) I certainly think they will be. And, uh, from doing the research, it was really, really illuminating, because I saw, especially, that's why I asked the question about that, from the choir to getting signed, I saw someone that was really tenacious and felt like they were being ... they had a fire up their ass or something. Because when I read about the, the t- the, the time you spent interning and working in the shoe shop and, uh, persuading yourself into certain meeting rooms and cer- certain things like that, that's the narrative that I don't think a lot of people would, would put out there. Because it's the reality that goes on behind the scenes. It's the boring stuff.
- RORita Ora
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But at the very essence of you, it's really why you're sat here now. It's that, like, that hustle that came from that refugee, immigrant background that caused you to just to persevere in situations where most people probably wouldn't have persevered, and to keep knocking on doors and to keep saying yes and showing up despite the cost.
- RORita Ora
And surviving-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, exactly.
- RORita Ora
... basically. Yeah. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
And the, and the sacrifices. You said it yourself, so-
- RORita Ora
Thank you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... it's an incredible thing.
- RORita Ora
Oh. You know, thank you. And it means a lot. Um, you met so many people, so I really appreciate that. I do really understand the platform that this gives as well for people like myself that can just really tell their story. Um, so thank you so much for letting me share my story.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Thank you for being here. It's an honor to have you. And you are, um, you're exactly why we started this show-
- RORita Ora
Aw.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... for, to tell those stories of really inspiring yo- young people that are doing incredible, incredible things, so.
Episode duration: 1:19:17
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