The Diary of a CEORochelle Humes: Learning To Be At Peace With Uncertainty | E118
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:40
Opening, Introductions And Premise Of The Conversation
Stephen sets up the episode, introducing Rochelle as a former member of The Saturdays turned mother and entrepreneur, and previews the key themes: near‑cancellation, childhood questions, and the hidden realities of entrepreneurship. He frames the idea that everyone is ‘winging it’ and positions Rochelle as wise, resilient and unusually real.
- •Stephen’s short call‑to‑action to subscribe to the podcast
- •Introduction of Rochelle’s journey from girl band fame to entrepreneurship and motherhood
- •Teaser of topics: cancel culture moment, childhood issues, business struggles, ‘winging it’ in life
- •Tone set around authenticity and deeper, less‑discussed sides of success
- 3:40 – 12:40
‘Just Me And Mum’: Absent Father, Curiosity And Acceptance
Rochelle reflects on growing up with a single white mother after her Black father left when she was a baby. She explains how becoming a parent herself reduced her curiosity about him and instead deepened her confusion about how someone could walk away from their child—eventually leading her to acceptance and forgiveness rather than a quest for answers.
- •Parents split when she was around one; contact with her father was sporadic then stopped
- •Her mum deliberately avoided bad‑mouthing her dad, often ‘covering his ass’ with excuses
- •Having her own children lowered, not raised, her desire to reconnect; seeing Marvin as a father made her respect for her own dad ‘in the basement’
- •She believes no conversation now can change the fact he missed her childhood milestones
- •She feels she no longer ‘needs’ a dad and is secure in her own family unit
- •At 18 she’d have said she’d never forgive him; now she feels she has, because holding on would only hurt her
- 12:40 – 20:10
The Power Of Acceptance And Letting Go Of Grudges
Stephen and Rochelle dive deeper into acceptance and forgiveness. They discuss how many people cling to bitterness as a form of imagined ‘victory’ or justice but in reality imprison themselves in old hurts.
- •Stephen shares a quote about forgiveness being releasing a prisoner and realizing you were the prisoner
- •Rochelle notes she’s naturally not someone who holds grudges and sees friends stuck in decades‑old feuds
- •They agree that focusing mental energy on ‘they did me wrong’ is self‑sabotage
- •Rochelle emphasizes moving ‘on to the next’ as a core part of her mentality
- •Theme that acceptance is active liberation, not passive defeat
- 20:10 – 31:00
Finding Siblings As An Adult And Redefining Family
Rochelle recounts discovering her half‑siblings in adulthood via a Love Island acquaintance. She describes the intense nerves before meeting them, the uncanny similarities they shared, and how the relationship has since become central to her life—underscoring the rewards of dropping resentment and rigid ideas of what family ‘should’ look like.
- •She already knew of a half‑brother; later learned of two half‑sisters as well
- •Years later, Love Island’s Kem recognizes her as a friend of her half‑sister and passes on the sister’s number
- •Rochelle arranges a dinner, feels physically sick with nerves, and brings Marvin for support
- •They quickly notice shared mannerisms and physical traits—‘nature vs nurture’ in real time
- •They now speak every day; she ‘can’t remember a time’ without them
- •She links this outcome to her refusal to hold resentment about their shared father
- •Reflection on mixed, ‘messy’ family setups and not needing a perfect movie‑style family
- 31:00 – 41:00
Mixed‑Race Identity, Family Expectations And How ‘Different’ Starts Shape Lives
The conversation turns to Rochelle’s mixed‑race identity, growing up in a white family while knowing a Black side existed elsewhere, and feeling embarrassed her family didn’t match advertising’s image of ‘normal’. Stephen relates that unconventional, even dysfunctional families often fuel the drive and uniqueness behind later success.
- •Rochelle grew up in a white household with grandparents from her dad’s side but no real Black family presence
- •Felt she constantly had to explain her lighter‑skinned sister and complex family picture
- •Never saw families like hers in Christmas adverts; felt embarrassment as a child
- •Now sees her blended, ‘messy’ family as rich and beautiful, full of love
- •Stephen notes guests often have non‑standard family stories that drive their ambition and difference
- •Both agree a ‘perfect’‑looking family can still be toxic, and no family gets a free pass if it doesn’t serve your wellbeing
- 41:00 – 52:40
Life In The Saturdays: Success, Sisterhood And Loss Of Control
Rochelle revisits her years in The Saturdays, framing them as a joyful, formative chapter that arrived at the perfect time in her life. She contrasts their slow, grind‑based rise with talent‑show bands’ overnight fame and unpacks the downsides: lack of autonomy, image pressure, and the difficulty of group compromise as adult priorities changed.
- •Joined the group at 18; sees it as a dream experience with minimal internal drama
- •They operated by a majority‑rules system (3–2) to settle creative disputes
- •Compared to groups like One Direction, they built success slowly through uni gigs and hustling for radio play
- •Downsides included intense scrutiny of appearance and weight, typical for girl bands
- •She performed on TV just 3.5 weeks after giving birth, in pain and leaking milk, due to label schedule and not wanting to let the group down
- •They never formally ‘broke up’ but drifted into separate lanes as kids and other priorities arrived
- •She has no desire for a reunion; the thought of touring feels like ‘uff’ and doesn’t fit her current life
- 52:40 – 59:20
Motherhood, Fame And Why She’s Closed The Door On A Reunion
Rochelle explains why, despite occasionally feeling like a ‘cool mum’ for her pop past, she has no intention of rejoining The Saturdays. She talks about her daughter’s indifference to her fame, the logistical impossibility of touring with three kids and a business, and the importance of recognizing when a chapter has truly ended.
- •Her eldest, Alaia, knows about the band but isn’t impressed—prefers Little Mix
- •Fun anecdote: Little Mix once came to their rehearsals for advice; Alaia still questioned why they’d ask Rochelle anything
- •Rochelle sees The Saturdays era as a completed, cherished chapter not aligned with who she is now
- •She prioritizes her children and business over nostalgic opportunities, even if her kids might enjoy a reunion
- •Accepts that identity can evolve; it’s okay for what once fit perfectly to no longer make sense
- 59:20 – 1:09:00
Building My Little Coco: Purpose, Retail Pushback And The Reality Of Startup Life
The discussion moves into entrepreneurship. Rochelle outlines why she created My Little Coco—safe, gentle, inclusive products for babies and families—and the long, technical slog of development and testing. She details retailer skepticism, especially around products for afro/curly hair, and how Boots became the partner who finally understood both her values and commercial vision.
- •Inspiration came when she was pregnant and couldn’t find gentle, high‑street products she trusted for her baby
- •Spent three years developing seven initial products with stringent newborn testing requirements
- •Faced a key decision: go DTC e‑commerce or partner with a retailer; consciously used her profile to get into the right rooms
- •Some retailers wanted her name but questioned the need for a curl custard or higher moisture levels for Black skin
- •She refused to drop the curl custard; Boots backed the full range and especially that product
- •Reflects that post‑BLM, the same concept would likely have been snapped up faster—highlighting how slowly institutions move on diversity
- •Stresses that running the brand is ‘all‑consuming’ and nothing like the Instagram fantasy of entrepreneurship
- 1:09:00 – 1:21:00
The Truth About Starting A Business And Raising Hard‑Working Kids
Rochelle and Stephen level with listeners about the myths of entrepreneurship and the challenge of instilling graft in children who grow up more privileged than they did. She emphasizes doubling down on strengths rather than mediocrity and being a loving but honest parent, not the one cheering a child into a career they’re not suited for.
- •Warns aspiring founders: you won’t make money at first, breaking even is a win, and you must be reachable beyond 5pm
- •Mocks the idea that starting an Instagram page equals starting a business
- •Worries whether her kids will inherit her hustle given their different circumstances
- •Insists she’ll be real with her children about what they’re actually good at, not blindly push them (e.g. she’d never clap a tone‑deaf child onto X Factor)
- •Agrees with Stephen that people should lean into existing strengths rather than trying to turn ‘Ds into Cs’
- •Rejects suggestions she should pursue acting or a solo music career because she knows her strengths lie in presenting and conversation
- •Draws a sharp line between what she *can* do versus what she actually *wants* and is intrinsically motivated to do
- 1:21:00 – 1:29:00
Choosing Aligned Work: The ‘This Morning Interview’ Test And Brand Authenticity
They dig into integrity around commercial deals and public projects. Rochelle admits she took misaligned brand work early on for financial security but now uses a vivid mental test—imagining herself selling it sincerely on live TV—to decide what to accept. She likens her social media to her home: curated but honest, and not obligated to broadcast every messy moment.
- •She’s previously taken brand deals ‘for the money’ after leaving the band, even when they weren’t truly her
- •Now, with more stability, she focuses more on what she says ‘no’ to than what she says ‘yes’ to
- •Her test: imagine being interviewed on This Morning, explaining the project—if she can’t answer with genuine conviction, she declines
- •Stephen notes most people can ‘act’ once but can’t sustain enthusiasm for years on something they don’t care about
- •She sees Instagram as her home—tidy, aesthetically pleasing, but not obligated to showcase the absolute worst of her day
- •Pushes back on the new expectation that influencers must constantly show every flaw, trauma, or political take in real time
- 1:29:00 – 1:34:00
‘Blue‑Tick Responsibility’ And Pressure To Speak On Everything
Rochelle articulates the growing cultural expectation that visible people must instantly comment on every major issue, from politics to pandemics, on social media. She’s wary of reposting unverified information and contributing to fear or misinformation, and insists she should only speak publicly on topics she genuinely understands or is directly involved in.
- •She acknowledges her verified status but clarifies she’s not a news anchor or expert on everything
- •Critiques the pandemic trend of people sharing alarming but unverified posts, fueling scaremongering
- •Feels a duty to her audience not to pass on information she hasn’t checked
- •Is happy to speak loudly on issues she *does* know—herself, her brand, her lived experiences
- •Believes it’s a ‘big ask’ to demand instant, perfect public positions from everyone with a platform
- 1:34:00 – 1:58:00
The Black Maternity Documentary, Colorism Backlash And Near Cancellation
The most emotionally intense segment covers Rochelle’s Channel 4 documentary on the Black maternity mortality gap and the social media storm that followed. After another Black presenter implied she’d been replaced as host, Rochelle was accused of benefitting from colorism and ‘stealing’ a darker‑skinned woman’s opportunity, prompting death threats and a crisis of whether to walk away from the project.
- •Context: Black women in the UK were five times more likely to die in and around childbirth (mixed‑race women four times, Asian women three times) than white women
- •Rochelle was first approached while pregnant during COVID; she agreed to attach her name to help the pitch and film post‑birth
- •Once announced, early reaction was supportive—people shocked by the stats—before a viral post flipped the narrative overnight
- •Another Black woman publicly claimed she’d been asked to front ‘the same show’, sparking accusations Rochelle had taken her job
- •Rochelle immediately DM’d her with her number to clarify but never heard back
- •She checked with Channel 4 and the production company; they confirmed no one else had been attached to *this* commission
- •She recognized colorism is real and that discussion is valuable, but felt this instance was misapplied and derailing the maternal mortality issue
- •She received death threats and was afraid to take her child to nursery; Marvin confiscated her phone for the weekend
- •Internal debates about stepping down; contributors and campaigners encouraged her to continue for the bigger picture
- •She chose not to publish a defensive statement to avoid feeding the drama and centering herself over the women’s stories
- •Post‑broadcast, some critics wrote to apologize, saying they’d misjudged her after seeing the program
- 1:58:00 – 2:07:00
Cancel Culture, Misunderstanding And Learning Not To Chase Justice Online
Stephen and Rochelle zoom out to examine cancel culture and the online demand for perfection. She admits the experience was the hardest of her career and that, in the moment, she would have erased that day. With distance, though, she sees how it reshaped her outlook on reacting, justice, and whose opinions really matter.
- •Stephen calls social media a place that forces binary ‘right/wrong’ positions and erases nuance
- •He suggests that in such storms people are intent on misunderstanding; explanations rarely change their minds
- •Rochelle notes how reacting publicly would have created more headlines and noise, without resolving anything
- •She consciously adopted a ‘don’t explain, don’t complain’ approach, similar to the late Queen’s modus operandi
- •She focused on the women and the cause rather than clearing her name in the court of public opinion
- •Acknowledges she can’t control if people choose to believe an inaccurate narrative about her
- •Concludes you can’t live trying to prove you’re a good person to everyone; it’s exhausting and futile
- 2:07:00 – 2:18:00
Marriage, Trust, Cheating Trauma And Not Punishing The Next Partner
The focus shifts to Rochelle’s relationship with her husband, Marvin. She describes him as her ‘calm in the chaos’ and reflects on not carrying baggage from being cheated on in a previous relationship into this one. They discuss how projecting old wounds onto new partners hurts both sides and blocks relationships from reaching their full potential.
- •Rochelle feels extremely lucky to have a solid, grounding partner and is very aware that’s rare in her industry
- •She and Marvin share a strong mutual respect and see themselves as ‘winging it’ in everything except their commitment to each other
- •She made a conscious choice not to treat Marvin as guilty until proven innocent, despite being cheated on in the past
- •Believes you can’t let any relationship (romantic, work, friendship) grow if you’re still ‘dealing with old shit’
- •Recalls the industry warning not to date boy‑band members, yet she and Frankie both did, knowing it could complicate their careers
- •Funny story of a fan telling her she’d ‘ruined her life’ by dating Marvin, illustrating the intensity of fandom
- 2:18:00 – 2:23:00
Gendered Parenting Expectations And The Invisible Load On Mothers
Rochelle praises Marvin as a devoted father but also calls out the double standard where men are lauded for basic parenting while mothers face constant judgment. She argues that a dad doing the school run is not ‘daddy daycare’—it’s parenting—and that women rarely receive the same applause for fulfilling their parental duties.
- •She describes Marvin as patient, devoted and everything she’d want in a dad for her kids
- •But she notes society constantly tells her she’s ‘lucky’ to have a good dad for her children, as if it’s extraordinary
- •Objects to phrases like ‘daddy daycare’ which imply fathers babysit rather than parent
- •Highlights that no one says ‘mummy daycare’ or applauds mothers in the same way
- •Points out the broader pressure on women to excel at career, motherhood, looks and partnership all at once
- 2:23:00 – 2:32:00
Five‑Year Plan, Leaving Management And Taking Back Control
They return to career strategy. Rochelle outlines her five‑year vision: a balanced but not over‑saturated TV presence, continued growth for My Little Coco, and—crucially—managing her own career rather than being handled by a big agency. She describes the emotional break‑up with her management and how Obama’s ‘51% rule’, via Stephen, nudged her to finally act.
- •Wants to keep doing family‑friendly TV (e.g. her Saturday night show with Marvin) without oversaturating herself
- •Wants her business to keep growing while she avoids announcing a new project every week for the sake of it
- •Decides no one understands or cares about her ‘vibe’ more than she does
- •Found herself frustrated by slow corporate processes and being pitched projects that felt far from who she is
- •Leaving management felt like a break‑up; hardest part was not wanting to hurt people she liked
- •Stephen retells Obama’s ‘51% certainty’ decision‑making framework; Rochelle says she called her management the very next day
- •She felt instant relief afterward, likening it to having a weight lifted or a massage, confirming it was the right move
- 2:32:00 – 2:37:00
On Difficult Decisions, Procrastination And Being Honest About What You Know
Stephen generalizes Rochelle’s management decision into a broader lesson on procrastination: we usually know what we need to do; we just fear delivering the message. Rochelle agrees, arguing that the ‘worst’ part of many decisions is a single uncomfortable conversation, and that people can reclaim huge chunks of their lives by getting through it.
- •Stephen notes that people often waste years avoiding choices they already know are right because they dread the difficult call
- •Rochelle frames it as putting ‘big girl pants’ on and recognizing the hardest part is usually the five‑minute conversation
- •Once you’re past 51% certain, any additional waiting is usually self‑harm, not prudence
- •She stresses that if the biggest downside is temporarily upsetting someone by being honest, it’s worth the long‑term gain
- 2:37:00
Closing Question, Small Regrets And Gratitude
Stephen reads the previous guest’s question about what Rochelle would like to pay more attention to. In a lighthearted moment, she answers: her dog, who gives her unconditional love despite her busy schedule. The episode closes with Stephen reflecting on her authenticity, kindness, and ‘bright light’ presence, and Rochelle modestly squirming at compliments.
- •She humorously admits she wishes she paid more focused attention to her dog, who idolizes her
- •Uses it to illustrate how work and kids can squeeze out small but meaningful sources of joy
- •Stephen praises Rochelle’s authenticity, empathy, and ability to balance motherhood, business and career
- •She acknowledges she’s still learning to accept compliments without deflecting them
- •Conversation ends on mutual appreciation and a reiteration of the importance of being true to yourself
