The Diary of a CEORussell Kane: How To Build Confidence & Stay Young | E79
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,152 words- 0:00 – 1:26
Intro
- SBSteven Bartlett
(music plays) Russell Kane, he's known as a multi-award-winning comedian, presenter, actor, author, and script writer. But man, this guy is so much more.
- RKRussell Kane
I started doing all this biohacking to survive on less sleep, to not lose your hair, or to slow down the aging process. It fucked my life in the proper sense. Everything fell apart. Like a junkie. How can I get more of that? My relationship with my girlfriend fell apart. My bills started to not be paid. I started to look thin. It's the closest thing to a drug addiction that I've ever experienced.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Russell Kane. He's known as a multi-award winning comedian, presenter, actor, author, and script writer. But man, this guy is so much more. He's genuinely, deeply intellectually curious, something that honestly surprised me. And this sounds like it might be e- offensive or a weird thing to say, but I'm gonna say it anyway. I didn't realize how smart this guy is. Remarkably self-aware and on, to top it all off, brutally honest. He says it how it is. He has an ability to point out things that I think most of us muggles miss, and he's also genuinely just a really nice and hilarious human being. Today,
- 1:26 – 13:10
Your Dad
- SBSteven Bartlett
you won't hear many jokes. This is the more serious side of Russell Kane, and a side of him that I did not know and would not have guessed before speaking to him. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Russell.
- RKRussell Kane
Hello.
- SBSteven Bartlett
On- (laughs) one of the things I read when I was, um, reading about your story was a quote.
- RKRussell Kane
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, and I'm gonna read the quote to you. You said, "I remained a boy while he was alive, even when I was 18, and I needed to be a man to tell these stories." What were you talking about when you said that?
- RKRussell Kane
Um, well, I don't think that's true of just me. I think any boy or probably girl who has a reasonably overbearing and dominant father, you sort of remain a, a child. Now that I'm a, a father myself, I can see that's true. So when my daughter Mina is 40, she's still gonna be my, my baby, so that's the positive side of it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
The negative side of it is if it's quite an overbearing, masculine energy, y- the, you sort... I felt sometimes a bit like a bonsai, like I kept nearly growing and then the roots were trimmed. So I was fully grown but small.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- RKRussell Kane
So if my dad was in the room, you know, I was instantly s- childlike, I would say, in- inside. So just a very dominating figure and I think that would've been the same had my dad not dropped down dead from a heart attack years ago. I think that would've been the same when I'd been 40, 50, 60. If my dad had been a n- 90-year-old shouting in the corner, I probably still would've been like that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Even if he wasn't in the room?
- RKRussell Kane
No, no. When... As soon as, well in his presence I think, but so far as the s- that... I think that quote might be talking about stand-up.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
I wouldn't have dared to tell the funny stories about him while he was alive I don't think, just on the risk he, he was offended or, you know, there'd be consequences.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was he like? For anybody that hasn't read your, about your story.
- RKRussell Kane
Um, steroid-taking, shaven-headed, silver-back, doorman, right-wing, angry council estate, working class, barbell curl, semi-professional body builder, lifeguard, sheet metal worker, lagger, nutter. By lagger I don't mean someone who gets on it, I mean someone who puts the insulation on the outside of pipes. The hardest job you can imagine, crawling in boilers, ripping out asbestos, fiberglass, cut hands, white transit van, "Get out of the way!"
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
Just massive. Shirts tailor... This is, when he was taking steroids, that was before I was born. His shirt's tailored, trousers split in Hulk-like at the thigh, just a force of meat called Dave.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wow.
- RKRussell Kane
(laughs) That was my dad.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Actually called Dave?
- RKRussell Kane
Dave. Actually called Dave from Essex. Um, so yeah, he was just very old school. So even though he, he was like, more like someone who was born in about 1920, he had sort of the politics and the attitude, very unreconstructed masculinity, quite knuckle-draggy. But just would just, you know, work himself to death to provide, barely raised his voice at me, n- certainly never laid a finger on me if he didn't, didn't need to. I find the truly terrifying Cockney can just give you some of the, "You fucking get in there now," and you're d- you're done. I, I, I, I, I actually piss came out of my body once when he spoke to me like that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really? (laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
I literally pissed myself. I was, uh... I'd thrown my brother on the bed and he was crying and there's nothing scarier than hearing the "Dun, dun, dun" on the stairs if you're done talking to your brother or sister and you know your dad's coming up the stairs. And he's like, "What happened? What have you done to your brother?" "And I just pissed myself." And that guy never laid a finger on me. That's power. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
My, my mum definitely laid a finger on me.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
I don't think I would've been scared of her if she didn't, but I was fucking terrified of my mum. Like, but she, but she would beat me, like, but my, but I couldn't imagine how she could have, have achieved that same objective without hitting me with something.
- RKRussell Kane
It's, it's, it would be analogous of the nuclear deterrent threat.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh.
- RKRussell Kane
If you know I've got nuclear weapons, I don't need to fire them for you not to attack me. So I know, I knew my dad had nu- where- whereas, and this sounds incredibly sexist, but reality is once you're a 14, 15-year-old lad, you're the same size as your mum.
- 13:10 – 17:30
Are you worried you'll turn into your Dad?
- RKRussell Kane
missing. You can guarantee it-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Fucking hell.
- RKRussell Kane
... like that, all the time. So for a little boy growing up, you've got to work really hard n- not to absorb that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I, I see hints of that in my dad, especially as he got older.
- RKRussell Kane
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
A little bit more negative about everything, moods, you know, seemed to be irritable at a lot of things. And one of the things that crossed my mind was, "I hope this isn't genetic." (laughs) Like how do I avoid becoming this guy when I get to that age?
- RKRussell Kane
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Has that crossed your mind, that the generational cycle might continue to some degree without you noticing?
- RKRussell Kane
O- o- obviously, yeah. I mean, seeing... So my brother, I don't... I can't really go into my brother's illness because he's literally not well enough to consent for me to talk about it, otherwise I would happily discuss it, because it's an important subject to talk about, but he's got some severe mental-health issues. Let's just leave it there. So my brother's really sort of un- un- refreshingly unaware of his mannerisms and gestures and postures, if you like, and it's just like my... He's like my old man. So how can your, you know, the way... th- the way your voice and the cadence of a sentence and the glances and the way you, you say, "No, I mean," and stuff like that, it is my old man. So I mean, on some genetic level, there are copies of how we express ourself. There must be. But apart from maybe your height, I can't think of anything you can't change with loads of, loads of ways. Education, cognitive behavioral therapy if you need it. I never have, but you can. Um, you can work on the way you eat, your diet, your lifestyle, all of those... You know, genetics is not destiny. One of the most fascinating things you can look up is identical twin studies. Over and over again, you'll get one twin that's two inches taller than the other, wher- where he's had a more successful... Not two inches, but he might be an inch taller, where he's had a more successful life, eating better food. So you can literally grow taller. There are... They're genetically identi- identical. So you can't tell me I'm destined to suddenly be negative about traffic jams if two identical twins can be different in height. You must be able to push against behavior. There's no-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You see that film Three Identical Strangers?
- RKRussell Kane
Yes, fantastic.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, amazing.
- RKRussell Kane
Absolutely fantastic.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Good stuff, that.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Made me upset.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's inspired cr- you know, the ending's obviously tragic, but, uh, yeah, really powerful film, and I think that it shines a light on how...
- RKRussell Kane
It does. It, it gives hope for all of us that you're not... You're only 50% of your dad and 50% of your mum, and... Although you're actually slightly more of your, your mum I've learned that out anyway. But, um, so you don't... You're not the... If you're only 50%, if twins aren't destined to be the same, you're not destined to be the same as a parent.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- RKRussell Kane
It's, it's, it's bad. It's a bad way to think, particularly if it's a negative trait. It's a good way to think if there's something you want to copy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
Tell yourself it, chant it-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
... "I want to be more like my mum. She's such a cool cat," or whatever.
- SBSteven Bartlett
We've w- we, we have also grown up in a slightly different culture, especially in the last sort of 10, 20 years, where we're much more aware of our psychology, right?
- RKRussell Kane
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And our, and our... and how trauma and childhood experiences have shaped us as adults, whereas I think my dad probably didn't know. So it was like someone back there in the control room running the show without him, and he was just a puppet to the shit he'd been through, whereas we are kind of a bit more open as a society now. So-
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah, that, that's my biggest learning. Men- mental health comes on a spectrum. It doesn't mean mentally ill. We have mental health.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yep.
- 17:30 – 21:11
How do we become more self-aware?
- RKRussell Kane
thinking, from the Matthew Syed book. The moment you can have insight into a stand-up routine or into a business proposition in a proper way, where you can look at it and go, "That doesn't work," you're gonna be successful. People that don't have insight into themselves in their personal lives, they end up single, they end up in unhappy relationships, because they can't see their own faults. They can't insight into themselves and go, "This..." (paper rustling)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Quick one. Starting from the minute the lockdown is lifted, we're gonna start bringing in some of our subscribers to watch how this podcast is produced behind the scenes. It means you get to meet the guests, meet myself, and see how we put all of this together. If you want that to be you, all you've got to do...I mean, this is just an impossibly tough question-
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... because we're talking about self-awareness really, right? So like, how does... And people, uh, people have asked me this question for the last five years and I really don't have a great answer still. How does one become more self-aware?
- RKRussell Kane
Well, I... It was literally part of my degree, so, uh-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, great. (laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
... I- I'm very lucky.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Here we go. (laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
So I start, I started doing English Literature 'cause I wanted to do the most show-off, un-Council Estate, posh subject possible, right? I, I mean, I was gonna get a, a first or I was... I don't know what was gonna happen, so I told myself, "I'm gonna get a first no matter what." That was preordained. Uh, and so I did two years of showing off about, you know, Roland Barthes and Jane Austen and all that. And there was an opportunity in the last year to cross over into creative writing, and the reason I did that, this again goes back to my dad, it's not very practical to be absolutely badass on Jane Austen unless you're gonna... wanna be a lecturer or an academic. Whereas creative writing, um, is a practical profession. You can go into advertising, you can go into journalism-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
... you can try and write books, you can, as it turns out, go into stand-up. I didn't know that yet. There's loads of places where you can go, "Look, I've not just got a first in English, I've got a first in, in writing. I can take body copy and make your brand pop." So, part... How do you do a dissertation in creative writing? There's only one way. You have to submit 10,000 words normal academic poncing about, and you have to submit 10,000 word short story play, but you have to run through your own work and criticize it and say what you got right and what you got wrong. Once you've been through that and done it loads of times, you, it's- it just becomes natural to bring it to your life. A copywriter in an advertising agency has to be able to really hate the o- his own work he just created and find the faults in it, 'cause that will lift it above Ogilvy's copywriter and you'll win the pitch.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
It's as si- it's as simple as that. The person, the man who cannot realize he's domineering or jealous and work on that will not have a fruitful relationship-
- SBSteven Bartlett
In order to-
- RKRussell Kane
... with a woman or a, or a man indeed.
- SBSteven Bartlett
In order to do that with your life or with your copy, or with your work or whatever in marketing, you have to have a certain level of self-esteem and sec- personal security to be... to allow yourself to rise above your work and look back down on it in a critical way.
- RKRussell Kane
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
A lot of people's self-esteem is so fragile-
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... that the prospect of being critical is, ugh, it's just unthinkable. C- like, you know, and this is why people get def- uh, well, from my experience, why people get so defensive and-
- RKRussell Kane
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... 'cause their, 'cause their, they're so f- if you... One shot to their self-esteem will take the whole house down, so then they immediately go like this. H- likes-
- RKRussell Kane
So you could look at it that way. So I would say that person needs to learn not self-esteem, because self-esteem's a totally separate conversation. They need to learn objectivity. A piece of writing is a thing, a relationship is a, a thing-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
... is, is that you've built with someone. Um, a comedy routine is a thing, a poem is a thing. The things over there, that's not you. You have to practice being able to take the piss out of the thing,
- 21:11 – 26:47
How does someone become successful?
- RKRussell Kane
criticize the, the thing. No, someone's not coming up to you and going, "You're ugly. Um, you're unlovable. Uh, you got a big nose. You're not tall enough." Stuff like that is gonna hurt and there's no way of getting objective. But if you can't look at a poem you've written and someone goes, "I really love the meter, but the adjective there is a bit obvious," then you should be able to thank that person, they're giving you a gift if they know their shit, but you're the one that should be saying that first. Eminem style, 8 Mile, seize the bars and turn them on yourself first.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hard to do.
- RKRussell Kane
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Because everything is like-
- RKRussell Kane
But this, this makes better wor- it makes better work-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
... it makes better humans.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. I completely agree, it's just im- really f- tough to do, like-
- RKRussell Kane
Practice.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
It's, it's practice.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Practice.
- RKRussell Kane
Like, I get a lot of, um... I, this is the message I get most often sent to me by my agent or on Instagram and it drives me fucking nuts. I had one the other week. "Oh, my God, I love what you do. I'm, I'm a really funny person." This is how it was phrased the other week. "How m- how many gigs would I have to do before I ex- could, like, open for you on tour? Can you have a look at some stuff I've filmed on my phone?" And I'm... I give them an answer that norm- I never get a reply to this answer. I say, "Okay, it's quite simple. Lucky for you, there is a really simple model to follow. You need to work unpaid for three years in the clubs three times a week. I wouldn't recommend a relationship and just warn your friends you're not gonna see them. I started to earn about £200-300 a week after five years. At that point, you're ready to give up your day job. On about the eighth or ninth year, you're gonna be ready to do a support slot." I never get that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Fuck that.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) It's like, it's like-
- RKRussell Kane
People don't wanna hear it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
But you, if you went up to the guy in the gym who's 16 stone and 5% body fat and go, "Can you tell me how I can get like that?" He'd say, "The machines are over there, dickhead."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
"Just get going."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
The machines are there. You cannot skip the machine. You cannot skip the tricep station if you want triceps. You can't just go, "But I... It's gonna hurt. Uh, it's too much work to get a tri-" Then just don't get triceps. Don't, but don't moan if you don't have triceps. Uh, head to the dip station and see you in four years.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I comple-
- RKRussell Kane
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, I... Now I've, I wrote about this. My book came out last week and I wrote about it in my book. I remember someone turning to me, it was actually the CEO of my company now, the company I've just left, and he said to me, "Steve, you know this personal brand stuff and this, like, speaking you do on stage?" He was like, "How long did it... Like, how do I..." He was like, "How do I, how do I do it?" And, and your brain immediately scrambles around looking for, like, three tips.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right? Three tips to describe, like, a dec- I remember my first talk in school at 14 years old, my hand shaking.
- RKRussell Kane
Absolutely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The truth is, like, someone's seen you with a sharp sword and they've said, "How do I get a shor- sword that sharp?" Say, "Well, start sharpening it now-"
- 26:47 – 42:54
Personal responsibility
- RKRussell Kane
picture, comes in first, gets a hundred pounds cash." That was the game. So everyone went in like that. On page two, in massive headlines, was, "It's a trick, stop turning. If you've read this headline, go and collect the money." That was on page two. All the unlucky people missed that. All the lucky people found it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
Do you know why? 'Cause lucky people are a lot ... Eyes are open. They're hustlers. So it turns out you can make luck.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yes.
- RKRussell Kane
You can practice that. You can hone it. That's something you can hone. Next time you walk into a meeting, just think, "Right, what's, what's that guy do for, for a living? Who's that? Is that a contact?" That's not luck if I sit down next to someone and he happens to be doing a s- a comedy streaming service startup and he signs me up. That's me being a bit bold and striking up a conversation and looking at what he's wearing and having a think. You can learn these skills.
- SBSteven Bartlett
People don't like that because that sh- puts the mirror on me and creates personal responsibility, where I, I, uh ...
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know what I mean? And, and I feel like in our society at the moment, this is just an observation I've had, personal responsibility is ... people fucking hate that.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I did a ... I remember doing a tweet about, um, 'cause ... Okay, this was me playing a bit of fuckery but I don't care, right? So the left of society, which I probably consider myself to be on, are, are really in support of the NHS. So I did a tweet saying, "The biggest cost to the NHS is, like, smoking, eating bad, et cetera." So if you really care about the NHS-
- RKRussell Kane
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... take care of yourself, da-de-da-da-da. Ugh. People were like, "No, Steve, this is ..." Literally, the qu- the replies were like, "This is not it."
- RKRussell Kane
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Because I'm basically saying if you genuinely care about the n- h- health service, here is all the data. The biggest burden on the NHS is people that are overweight-
- RKRussell Kane
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and people that are smoking or whatever. Um-
- RKRussell Kane
Well, I ... The o- the obesity one's particularly controversial because there's two movements at the same time. There's personal responsibility and the science we're learning about obesity, particularly during COVID. I mean, if you w- if, if you want to do one thing other than social distancing, obviously get a vaccine, m- most of us are too young to have had a vaccine. So i- if you haven't had the vaccine and you don't ... and you don't wanna live life like a prisoner, the best thing you can do is get in shape quick. They ... Y- you're better off ... You're literally better off being a, I think, a thin smoker. Liter-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- RKRussell Kane
Literally, yeah. But it's a controversial conversation because, quite rightly, we're reevaluating beauty standards and a lot of people end up with eating disorders, and fat shaming and all that needs to go away. And as, as soon as we associate personal responsibility, longevity, and health with a body type, we're in a difficult area where we create shame for people based on how they look, which is something we wanna get rid of.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
So for someone like me who's on, on the left, my head just goes pop.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. You don't know where to start.
- RKRussell Kane
Smoking is, is a slam dunk. Don't smoke, you're a bellend.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
End of. Decade don't smoke, stop costing-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
... me money on the NHS. But someone that might be overweight, it's very, very complex to understand why someone's overweight. It's, it's something I studied a lot, not because I've ever been overweight, but because I'm fascinated by biohacking and body and all of that. And I think the most co- co- ... most illuminating thing I can tell anyone about being overweight is that eating too much does not make you overweight. This is ... No one understands this. I'm gonna blow your mind here.Being overweight causes you to eat too much. Once you have the metabolic condition of being overweight, that fucks your circuitry, which drives you to eat more. Obesity causes calorie surplus. So, shaming people for eating too much is a waste of time, because most people with busy lives and kids and no money are in a condition that's compelling them to eat more. It might be emo- emotionally compounded, it might be psychologically compounded. They might be recovering from abuse, they might be recovering from a bad relationship, they might just be skint and can only afford fucking nuggets, and they, they're just tired, they're not getting enough sleep. And unfortunately, until you get into, um, a low-fat state like us, where it's easy to regulate your calorie, your, every part of your body is telling you to feed this obesity. No one understands that. I've gone deep into the sci- I'm not a scientist, so look it up for yourself before everyone starts trolling me saying, "Literature degree boy."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mmm.
- RKRussell Kane
But as far as I understand the science, layman's cards on the table, obesity causes overeating. Now, that is just boom, but it helps us to be more com- as much as I agree with what you're saying, it just, it leavens more compassion into people's weight loss journey. Although you're absolutely correct, if you don't wanna die of COVID and you don't wanna cost the NHS money, getting in shape's one of the best ways to do it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But of course it's not easy, and I've, I've had moments in my life where I've been most stressed, and y- it's a downward cycle.
- 42:54 – 47:07
Is there no hope for some people?
- RKRussell Kane
all that, it will always be a grammar school, always. It's very rarely, "I went to the local comprehensive, and now I'm an MP." It's always, "I went to a state..." Which state school? It's a grammar school. You went to an elite education then, state, but elite selective.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
So we need some more stuff like that. Uh, what can we do in our communities? What can our youth workers do? What- what can we set up in- in- in council estates, head hunters that look for talent, uh, particularly boys. I'm gonna say that 'cause I was a boy once. But there's a real problem with teenage boys. All this testosterone kicks in, and it goes the wrong way for most of us.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You... When I hear one of your podcasts, you ask very controversial questions. I think you like those questions. Those are the ones that are most interesting to you, aren't they?
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah. Well, I- I- I... yeah, as long as I don't get us in trouble. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Well, it's hard to tell. (laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Um, so, my, I guess, my... I was just thinking then, this is a controversial question, but he asked me a controversial question, so I can ask him.
- RKRussell Kane
Go for it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is there no hope for some people? What... I... give me con- so zoom out, context.
- RKRussell Kane
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Got a friend, tried really hard to help them change their life or do something for themselves, 10 years of effort, made all the offers in the world to this person, still Job Seekers Allowance, you know, som- somewhat depressed, can't seem to have any impact. We grew up in the same street. We were best friends my whole childhood. I went off. He stayed there.
- RKRussell Kane
I've got tons of examples like that, so I'll have to speak very euphemistically now. I'll be canceled, not by the internet, but by my-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
... friends and family/associates/ I don't even wanna say which group these people are in.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
Uh, I've... all of this. I've had female friends who I'm like, "Stop dating bastards." And the next guy, he's nice. He's a coke dealer, and he's like, he's gonna fucking... he's cle- he's gonna shag your mate.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
And it... some of these women are getting to 35, you know, like with the final egg in the goblet, like in Indiana Jones, waiting to be fertilized. And, um, this... the next guy, he's go... well, he's got three kids by three different women. He has... he's got an electronic tag, but it's great 'cause we can spend some time in
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
Just bang a boring guy or a guy that likes Dungeons & Dragons or an accountant. What... they can't... there's a sexual attraction there to bastard men that some women, particularly f- from my sort of background, working-class women, find hard to get over, would be one example. But you can get over it. It is possible to do it. The mistake people like you and I make is we try to help. And say you've got a friend who's unmotivated, depressed, leaves every job after three months. It's always someone else's fault. It's always the system. It's always, "If only Corbyn was in power." It's, uh, "My dad did this. My mum did that," always putting it on someone else, and then they... you're making it worse by putting it on you. "Let me help." You're just a positive version of that. The solution is, well, them... they have to switch the light bulb on in themselves. They may not get there. But the moment they wake up and go, "Today is the day I'm gonna try and change my life," they should... they... that... the first step. It might be speaking to a therapist. It might be changing your career. It might be enrolling in A levels that you do at nighttime, like I did. That was what... lucky enough, my revelation came at... when I was 18.
- SBSteven Bartlett
'Cause you were on Job Seekers Allowance at one point.
- RKRussell Kane
I was, yeah. I did my A levels late 'cause I had this spark moment. But it's gotta come from within them. It's not something, as yet, although science might get there one day, that we can give to you in a pill or a- an injection. You've got to suddenly have in... right back to the beginning of the chat, insight, and be like, boom, chest out, "I'm gonna see a therapist. I'm not gonna use negative language. I'm gonna get this self-help book," which- which gives me some CB, cognitive behavioral therapy tools. I always mix up with cannabis (laughs) and cog-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) CBT.
- RKRussell Kane
CBT. Um, so yeah, it's- it's gotta come from them. But for you and I, fix is how can we solve it, how can I redraft the copy, what's the solution? Unfortunately, the solution is trying to get them to have some insight. So if you have got a friend like that, maybe have that sort of conversation with them that spurs self-reflection. Because giving them a million-pound-a-year job is just gonna make them worse 'cause that muscle that's atrophied-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
... will stay atrophied. That sort of standing up, making your own strength muscle.
- NANarrator
(paper crumpling)
- SBSteven Bartlett
I've been on my Huel journey for a couple of years now. But in the case of some of my best friends who I've talked about on this podcast before, one particular friend called Ashley Jones, who knows that I talk about him and his
- 47:07 – 58:14
Why did you become a comedian?
- SBSteven Bartlett
transformation story, he did have a problem eating certain foods. And so he transitioned to making Huel a greater part of his diet, and the guy went from being... and I'm sorry, Ash, if you're listening. The guy went from being, like, slightly overweight, constantly, um, having health issues that aren't related to, like, you know, being slightly overweight, to being... to literally having a six-pack, posting his six-pack on Instagram, but more importantly, being high energy and feeling amazing. So when I'm, like, you know, talking to you guys about Huel, I do so with such a level of passion because I believe that it can really help change your lives in a significant way. I believe it can make you mentally better. I know it can make you physically better. And so, yeah, what a joy it is to have a sponsor that you believe in that much. Um, yeah. And they're also just really good people. (paper crumpling) One of the most, um, probably scary things, from my perspective, that you ever did was walking out on stage for the first time, for your first gig ever.
- RKRussell Kane
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like, what the fuck were you thinking?
- RKRussell Kane
Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... going out and walking in front of people and telling fucking jokes. Are you sure?
- RKRussell Kane
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like... (laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
With me, it's even more complex because I don't know if you've had any standups on here before.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Never.
- RKRussell Kane
But the majority of them, and quite rightly so, will be like, "From a young age I used to watch blah, blah, blah on TV. I used to watch all these American comics. Uh, I used to watch Chris Rock, Bill Burr-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
... Bill Hicks. I knew that's what I wanted to do, man."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
Uh, I was like, you know, I was like the young boxer in the alleyway. I knew I was gonna box. None of that. Nothing. There is zero in my CV that shows an affinity for the craft of standup. Always been the joker. I'm not being funny today. I don't know why it's you got me on one.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
But normally, I'm always arsing around. Not, this is not a thing I do on stage. I'm just, I'm li- like, the clown person.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- RKRussell Kane
Just, just my, that, again, I've just always been, I just love making people laugh. I've always been a, a joker. There's some data to suggest, um, youngest children have it, and I'm not the youngest child of the oldest, or people born in August and July, purely because if you're smaller than everyone else, you've got to develop your personality quick. So you, if you look at the Premiership, you won't find many footballers born in August.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That'll explain why I never made it.
- RKRussell Kane
August.
- SBSteven Bartlett
August 26th.
- RKRussell Kane
So you won't find many-
- SBSteven Bartlett
26th as well.
- RKRussell Kane
You won't find many sportsmen or anyone that requires size or physical prowess, those professions. So even if you turn out to be a very tall teenager, you're less likely to become a basketball player than a, a teenager one inch shorter than you who was born in October. The reason being, you'd have been pushed by the coach and taught and everything early doors at six, seven, eight years old. So, and there is some data to suggest that people who work with their personalities for a living, people that have to solve, entrepreneurs, and find little rat runs and alleyways, develop that based on being smaller or more vulnerable. But that can take lots of forms. I've got an overbearing dad as well. So I'm an August baby, overbearing dad, and some of it will be genetic. My mum's very funny. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you tal- you talked a little bit about... I, I was reading some, some of your, um, previous interviews, you talked a little bit about how it was a bit of a defense mechanism maybe in school, if that's, you found your place-
- RKRussell Kane
That's what I mean, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... by being a...
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah, I wasn't bu- uh, but I don't know how I wasn't bullied, but I, but I wasn't. The smallest, no girlfriend, um, wasn't in with the in crowd at all. I was sort of like an ex- in a, in a sort of external group that had diplomatic immunity. Definitely a virgin, definitely no cool friends, definitely one of the idiots, but we don't punch him 'cause he's sort of all right. Obviously, I did get, it was a working class school-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah. Everyone got punched.
- RKRussell Kane
... I did get punched a lot, but not as much as...
- 58:14 – 1:02:13
How do you overcome nerves?
- RKRussell Kane
show it is. So if you'd booked a show from me today, where you're gonna introduce me and I'm gonna do 20-minute stand up, and you've got 2,000 people in the room, there would be nerves there, a fair bit of nerves, but mostly I'm ready to n- knock the gig the fuck out with my first punch. If you've put an event on, and Michael McIntyre's closing and you're hosting it, and you're- to me at the last minute, said, "Russ, I've decided to do two halves. Can you do 20 minutes at the top?" I shit myself. Because they're not there for me, they're there for you and him, and I've got a conversion job to do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right.
- RKRussell Kane
And the risk is massive.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
Their Michaels fans are your fans. And that's when the nerves kick in, when I'm doing Royal Variety Show or Live at the Apollo where people have responded to a TV ticket, not me, that's when the nerves go back to old school style nerves.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How, how do you, uh, what's the battle you have with those nerves, in, in terms of your cognition? And before you go on stage, what are the tips you can give people?
- RKRussell Kane
Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
'Cause a lot of people-
- RKRussell Kane
There's two, there's two ways to, to, to, w- to work on that. Um, the first thing is, the actual practical thing on the night, I would say, um, just work with breathing and mindfulness and all the stuff that you've probably read 1,000 times. The other thing to do is if you can find a way to do it, it depends which stage of your career you're at. If you're at the stage of your career like me and you, a lot of p- I'm not trying to be offensive here, a lot of people are sucking our dicks a lot of the time. So we're constantly walking into rooms where people think we're legends, it's never gonna be a difficult gig. Now and again, something comes up where you're the tadpole. And you, n- you, you don't have the hardware in place, and a fucking, uh, uh, Bill Gates is speaking before you, Oprah's hosting it, and all of a sudden, you're, "Who's this guy?" You're having a day of, "Who's this guy?" And we're all qu- we can all have a "Who's this guy?" day.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
And the only way to practice that is to put yourself in more, "Who's this guy?" moments regularly. So how I do that, as soon as my tour finishes, I book the smallest, hardest, weirdest, they might have bad lighting, they might have no microphone, they might be half sold, and I'm unlisted. Unlisted, unannounced, unexpected. And I walk onto tiny clubs full of drunk men, 50-year-old UKIP dads. All of those places, I put myself in those all the time because the risk is high, the nerves are the same, but the consequence is zero. So I'm constantly training the muscle of...... convert the people who don't know who I am.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RKRussell Kane
Keeping it sharp the whole time. So whatever business you're in, you'll be able to think of an equivalent way of doing that. So set up smaller situations where you're having to keep that muscle because the danger is the more successful you get, you lose the muscle of walking into a room full of skeptics. And if you lose that muscle, that's the money-making muscle. So practice it. I keep mine tight at all times. I constantly put myself in unbilled, unlisted, unideal situations. When you walk onto a stage when you're at my level, which I would call myself quite recognizable. You can't say I'm like Mi- Michael McIntyre or Chris Rock or someone, but I'm sort of known as a standup. So what that means is, when I walk on stage at The Comedy Store, late show, 400 people drunk off their tits, worked dos, hen dos, and I'm uni- unbilled, unexpected, unlisted, the room splits into three. Straightaway. It splits into, "Oh, my God. It's him. Fucking what a treat. We've got him for 20 quid." To the middle, "Who's that? Am I supposed to know who that is? Is he good? I don't know. I think I've seen him." And the final group, "Can't stand this cunt."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
Um, that's the only group I'm playing to, with a little bit in the middle group. They're the only people I'm interested in 'cause that's where the muscle-building exercise is. And then when you go on stage to your audience, they get you like that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you come with that conversion energy to your own audience, you must be a, you must be a hot guy.
- RKRussell Kane
You don't need it. That's the problem.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. Oh, yeah. <|agent|><|en|>
- RKRussell Kane
All you gotta do is put your foot out. And they're like, "It's his foot! He's amazing!"
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
That's, that's the problem.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RKRussell Kane
That's the problem. You get flabby easy in all businesses.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So you talked about your relationships
- 1:02:13 – 1:15:32
Relationships, evolution of one & cheating
- SBSteven Bartlett
there and your current partner. I, um, I heard you got married for nine months at one point.
- RKRussell Kane
Oh, yes. Yeah, no, I did.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) You'd forgotten.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah. Uh, sorry, I realized what you mean. Yeah, no, I did. I was, I was married biff- I was married, so I'm currently, I'm trying to enjoy my middle marriage. That's what I say to myself.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay. Middle marriage. (laughs) Okay.
- RKRussell Kane
No, I was, uh, so we, we were just... We realized we were just mates. Uh, yeah, there was a romance there. We had a lot in common. We were both into this same world, and we were sort of living together, and we got married, and we were like, "That was a mistake," and then we just weren't marri- We was, and it was totally amicable. No, no fighting, no, no problems at all.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you talked about the, uh, understanding that your current partner has, current wife.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah. So my, my former partner, the, the one I was married to for nine months had that as well, which is why it was so... We thought we should probably get married but then realized, I mean, marriage needs more than that. Um, so yeah, so Lindsay is more... Lindsay doesn't get jealous unless I do something dickhead, like follow a glamour model on the internet and then like a bikini pic, in which I get my ass kicked, but still do 'cause I'm Neanderthal.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
And, uh, 'cause I'm a man, I'm a monkey, press button, can't help it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, yeah. I'm not going to go there.
- RKRussell Kane
Um, so unless I do something stupid like that, which I rightly get in trouble for, or, like, change my flight in Ibiza and go to a boat party, which I also tried to do and got my ass kicked for.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
Um, so, but m- if I'm on the road and doing autographs afterwards and there's all, uh, girls in the picture or something, I've never ever... Like, Lindsay's just not even a flicker. She gets it. That's the job is every- you're everyone's friend. If the girls fancy you in the audience, even better. That means another Maldives holiday type thing. That's the way. She's in business mode. She is an ent- a s- a bit of an entrepreneur, Lindsay. She's got two businesses, and she sees my business as a business. Um, and she never, ever guilts me over being... I might be away for four nights. I won't... Some days, I've gone, "Shit, I didn't phone home. I didn't text. I didn't even..." Now and again, all I have to do is do a good night, and she knows that my head might be full. There's never any fallout, never. And that just makes the trust and the bond. It's just, of course I then do call home m- w- it just works 'cause of that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're someone that will get a lot of attention because it's, I mean, it's your job, right? It's like to, to holding, keeping attention.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah. Literally to seek attention is my job.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. And, and women, they love funny guys, right? So-
- RKRussell Kane
Oh, God.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you know, probab- I, I don't know if this is gonna get you in trouble, but you know that you could have a lot of different partners if you wanted to.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah. I could be harvesting 24/7.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Right. That's what I mean. So-
- RKRussell Kane
I probably would have fractured pelvis by now if I hadn't got married.
- SBSteven Bartlett
People are gonna hate this question 'cause they think I'm encouraging it, but I'm here to play devil's advocate.
- RKRussell Kane
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay? (laughs) Why aren't you?
- RKRussell Kane
Well, um, I fell deeply in love and got married, and I'm just... Again, you go back to the childhood, undivorced parents. It's just what I modeled on is... I've never had a problem with saying to a girl, "Um, the relationship's done. My head's starting to be turned. Let's move on." And as much as it breaks my heart, if I ever felt that way, I would... Obviously, with a marriage and a child, I would sit down to l- to, to Lindsay and say, "There's an issue here. I've started to have these thoughts. How can we work on it?" And we'd, we'd work something out. So that's just my way I operate. Hardly any men do. Sorry, girls, for my, for my sex.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I was gonna say. Very rare.
- RKRussell Kane
If only men did. I mean, uh, but they don't. So I'm trying to... A man should go, "I haven't done anything, but I'm having these thoughts. What does it mean? Does it mean we're not in love? Does it mean sexually that our relationship's not exciting? Is there something we can do that... Some games we can play to mimic that? I don't know, whatever that..." Couples need to just have that conversation 'cause if you pretend men and women aren't having those thoughts, you're naive. So you need to keep the relationship alive. That's the way to do, to do it. Why, why am I married? Well, A, I'm 45, remember? Uh, and B, I, I'd, I'd been... I'm more serial monogamist. So I'd gone from age 16 to 30 odd, be with a girl for three years, break up, get straight with another girl. Literally the next week, break up on anywhere between nine-month to three-year relationships. Never had a one-night stand. I'd never been single. I'd never been on a lads holiday. So when I split up, it was a bit weird, but my mum was like, "You are not gonna find a sustainable relationship because of all these reasons you said. You're gonna get a lot of female attention. You're always gonna wonder what it's like." She went, "If I was you, I'd have a year on your own." So I set the clock, and I was like-... punani master in action.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RKRussell Kane
And, uh, well, not cynically, not cynically shagging-
Episode duration: 1:44:43
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