World Leading Life Coach: 3 Steps To Figuring Out ANYTHING You Want: Marie Forleo | E184

1. 0:00 – 2:08

   intro

   1. MFMarie Forleo0:00

      The most game-changing work that I've ever done is... (tense music)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:05

      Marie launched a multimillion-dollar life coaching business. Star of the award-winning Marie TV... An international best-selling author...

   3. MFMarie Forleo0:14

      Can I get a "woo woo"?

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:15

      Marie Forleo.

   5. MFMarie Forleo0:17

      Track your time meticulously for seven days. You will be shocked at how much time flitters away that don't create a ton of value for you, and you'll get an idea, like, "I would have never thought of that" if your face was stuck in Netflix or TikTok for, you know, the seven hours a day that you're not working.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:34

      Your book is full of solutions to the most important challenges. What are you struggling with?

   7. MFMarie Forleo0:38

      I'm someone who has ADHD, so I can have a very overactive brain. Well, I found myself over-performing and overworking, wanting to control everything so I could have a sense of safety. That's where the real cost came in for me. I started dreading waking up in the morning. Like, "I wish I could just disappear." Like...

   8. SBSteven Bartlett0:57

      Wow.

   9. MFMarie Forleo0:57

      Yeah. See, these were scary thoughts, and it almost destroyed my relationship.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:04

       In the book, you talk about these three rules that underpin this figureoutable mindset.

   11. MFMarie Forleo1:08

       Yes, and it's just helped me in every different facet: my relationships, my mental health, my business.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett1:14

       What are those?

   13. MFMarie Forleo1:15

       So rule number one is that... Rule number two... Rule number three...

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:22

       That's super important-

   15. MFMarie Forleo1:23

       Yes.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:23

       ... point number three. It's the one we don't talk about.

   17. MFMarie Forleo1:26

       You have to be willing to just... (music stops)

   18. SBSteven Bartlett1:31

       Before this conversation starts, I've got a favor to ask from you. 74% of people that watch this podcast frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button, and 9% of people haven't yet hit the bell to turn notifications on. The bigger this platform gets, the bigger the guests get. So if you could do me one favor, if you've ever enjoyed this podcast, please hit the subscribe button and turn notifications on. Without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (upbeat music)

2. 2:08 – 5:26

   Early years

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:08

      Marie, when I was reading your book, you talk about how experience is one of the things that ends up shaping the beliefs we have in the world.

   2. MFMarie Forleo2:18

      Yes.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:19

      What were the experiences that you had at the very earliest of ages that end up shaping the beliefs you had about the world?

   4. MFMarie Forleo2:28

      One of the biggest ones was actually a memory I had when I was about seven or eight years old. So my parents had just gotten a divorce, and I remember being in the kitchen in my house in New Jersey with my mom, and I'm looking at her. And she has one of the old school phones with a cord, like, wrapped around her hand, and it was wrapped around so tight that her hand was kind of turning white 'cause she was cutting off the circulation. And she was on the phone with her mother, who was in Florida at the time, and she was crying unconsolably. And I'm watching my mom with tears running down her face, and her... everything looked drawn, and she was saying, "I have nothing. I have nothing. Do you understand? I have nothing. I don't know what I'm gonna do." And so, you know, there's tears coming down, and I'm just frozen in fear. She hangs up the phone, and she bends down, and I just see, like, her makeup running down her face and the tears running down her face, and she puts her hands on my shoulders, and she puts her face right next to mine up to my nose, and she shakes me. And she says, "Do you see what I'm going through right now? I have nothing. Do not be stupid like I was. Don't ever let a man, don't ever let anyone control your money. I need you to grow up. I need you to be your own woman. I need you to be independent. Don't be stupid like me." And Steven, I was just, like, you know, as a seven or eight year old, like, in shock. Of course, I love my dad, my dad's an amazing man, and I love my mom. And that experience, like, in a few seconds, I made all of these equations in my mind, and I made all these decisions, and I made all these promises to myself, and I'll tell you what those were. One of the decisions was that the lack of having enough money equaled the loss of love, the destruction of family, and so much pain and suffering. Like, seeing my mom in pain, knowing my dad wasn't there, knowing my family us- unit wasn't okay, and I just... everything felt unsafe. And I made this promise and this decision, I said, "Okay, when I grow up, I'm gonna somehow make so much money that I am going to take care of the people I love, and if anyone around me needs money to s- to, to handle the pain, I'm gonna be able to take care of them." Now looking back, I'm in my 40s now, I can see how much that fear and how much that desire to have love be healed has driven almost every part of my career.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett5:13

      To have love be healed?

   6. MFMarie Forleo5:14

      Yes.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett5:15

      What do you mean by that?

   8. MFMarie Forleo5:17

      Because I had this notion that because there wasn't enough money, that my parents' love was broken.

3. 5:26 – 9:16

   The cost of having money as a motivator

   1. SBSteven Bartlett5:26

      When we are driven by insecurities, it can be... it can get a little bit out of hand.

   2. MFMarie Forleo5:32

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett5:33

      You know, when something like that, like money, becomes your North Star, um, it almost means that the other stars are dimmed-

   4. MFMarie Forleo5:42

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett5:42

      ... the other things that form our very human needs.

   6. MFMarie Forleo5:47

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett5:48

      What was the cost, then, of prioritizing that, of th- of, uh, having money as a motivator?

   8. MFMarie Forleo5:54

      In some ways, it was wonderful because it was... there was a rooting in solid work ethic. That was fabulous, and at the same time, a self-punishment.I'm never doing enough. It's not quite enough. This is not good enough. It can be better. I can be better. And, you know, for many years, especially early into my career, I didn't really have an off button. You know, was working seven days a week, morning until night, um, you know, missing out on whether it was friends getting married or this one or that one. And, and some of that, you know, it's complicated, it's multi-layered, right? A lot of times if friends were going on let's say a bachelorette party to Vegas or whatever, I legitimately didn't have the money to go, and I found myself working all the time just to kind of climb out of debt in the early days of my business, for example. So, there's a little bit of give and take there. You know, there was the cost, and I think eventually as I started to get into my 40s, I started recognizing just this pattern of over-performance, of over-doing, of over-pushing. Sometimes I would say to my partner Josh, we've been together for like 20 years, and I would say, "God, you know, I, I really want to take a break right now, but I've got X, Y, and Z to do." And I said, "I don't, I just, I feel so lazy if I take a break. I can't take a break. Like there's so much..." And he's like, "Marie, you are one of the most productive, non-lazy people I have ever met in my life." No matter how many times he said that to me, Steven, for so long I didn't believe him. I was like, "He's lying. He, he's not as productive as I am." (laughs)

   9. SBSteven Bartlett7:26

      Mm-hmm.

   10. MFMarie Forleo7:26

       "He has lower standards than I do," which is all not true. Um, and it was, uh, it was tough. It was, it was just I wasn't very kind to me.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett7:36

       How do you, how do you balance that? Because on one end, you know, the feeling of being not satisfied-

   12. MFMarie Forleo7:42

       Yep.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett7:43

       ... is motivating.

   14. MFMarie Forleo7:44

       Absolutely.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett7:44

       It means that you're always striving, you're pushing people, you, you, you know, there's always more work to be done, you're always at the 1% in your pr- in, in your projects. But on the other hand, um, it's also for many a deferral of their happiness and contentment off into the future somewhere that will keep moving as they move.

   16. MFMarie Forleo8:01

       Yeah.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett8:01

       Off into the distance.

   18. MFMarie Forleo8:02

       Yeah.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett8:03

       How, where is the sweet spot between knowing there's more work to be done, but also being content in the moment?

   20. MFMarie Forleo8:08

       Yes. I love this. A, I think for me, it is this ever-evolving daily practice that I never quite get right, but I'm always playing with. These days, it's about recognizing that, you know what? I have created so much, I am so proud of what I have, and I'm a human that is entrepreneurial and multi-passionate and creative, so there's all these things. It's the joy of going like, "Oh my goodness, I'm so grateful for what I have, and here are the things that I am so excited to create." And for me it becomes this really beautiful, dynamic sense of being where I am fully joyful and grateful for exactly what's happening and super excited for what I'm creating next. So, in the past it was like, "Oh, well this isn't good enough. I'm not good enough. I don't ha-" You know, it was coming from a place of lack, where these days I'm coming from a place of contentment and then an additional place of curiosity and excitement about what's unfolding next. Does that make sense?

   21. SBSteven Bartlett9:15

       Hm, of course it does.

4. 9:16 – 12:22

   Did you know this is what you wanted to do?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett9:16

   2. MFMarie Forleo9:16

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett9:17

      How many people do you think you've, you've coached over the last decade?

   4. MFMarie Forleo9:21

      Oh my goodness. I think that would depend on your definition of coached. So, we've, we've had over 100 million people interact with our, our videos and-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett9:30

      Given advice.

   6. MFMarie Forleo9:30

      ... beautiful things. (laughs)

   7. SBSteven Bartlett9:31

      You know, that heard your advice or your words. Was there a moment when you realized that this is what you wanted to do with your life?

   8. MFMarie Forleo9:37

      Yes.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett9:37

      Because I know you went to Wall Street.

   10. MFMarie Forleo9:39

       Yes.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett9:39

       That didn't last very long and then you...

   12. MFMarie Forleo9:41

       Oh my goodness, I failed at so many jobs. (laughs) So, um, I remember when I was on Wall Street on the New York Stock Exchange, um, I was really excited about it because it was this place where there was tremendous potential for income, right? And I was around people that were making millions of dollars a year which is so far beyond anything I could have imagined in my life at that time. And I was, I kept hearing this little voice inside, Steven, that was like, "This isn't who you are. This isn't what you're meant to do. This isn't who you're supposed to be." And that little voice kept getting louder and louder, but the little voice didn't tell me what else I was supposed to do. And one day, I was crying my eyes out because I felt like such a failure. My parents had busted their buns to help me get through college, first in my family to go to school, and I knew that I was so lucky to have that job, just any job, right? Health care, a steady paycheck, and here I was miserable. I wanted to quit so bad and I just felt trapped because I didn't want to bring shame upon my family. I felt like a total failure. And the little voice then said, "Call your dad." So, I took out my flip phone at the time which gives you an idea, it was like the late '90s, and I was crying to my dad and I said, "Dad, I'm so sorry. Like you and mom worked so hard to get me through school and, and I just, I can't stand this job. I wanna quit." And he broke in, uh, while my sniffly, snotty crying and he's like, "Rie," he's like, "Calm down." He's like, "If this job is getting you this sick and you hate it, you have to quit." I said, "But Dad, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Like this isn't like me." And he said, "Look. You're gonna work for the next 40 or 50 years of your life. You have got to find something you love and if this job isn't it, then start bartending, do whatever you need to do again, but don't stop looking until you find something that you really, really want to go to do every single day." So, the only things I knew about myself were that I loved business, but I was also highly creative. And the only com- combination that felt like it could work in an industry was magazine publishing. At the time that was still a thing.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett11:37

       Hm.

   14. MFMarie Forleo11:37

       And I, uh, went to a temp agency. I got a job at Gourmet Magazine, but about six months into that job, which was interesting, I started hearing that same voice again, Steven. I was like, "Ugh. This isn't who you are. This isn't what you're supposed to do. This isn't what you're supposed to be." So, I'm on the internet one day at work, probably when I shouldn't have been, and I stumbled upon this new profession at the time called coaching. When I read this article, it was as though something in my soul lit up like a Christmas tree. It was like the clouds parted and little angels came out and it was like, " (sings) "

   15. SBSteven Bartlett12:08

       (laughs)

   16. MFMarie Forleo12:09

       Like this is what you're supposed to do. And I said, "I'm gonna do this life coaching business." And I went back to bartending and waiting tables and just devoted myself to figuring out how to build a business during the day.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett12:21

       Okay. So, let's go

5. 12:22 – 18:07

   The voice inside

   1. SBSteven Bartlett12:22

      back through.

   2. MFMarie Forleo12:22

      (laughs)

   3. SBSteven Bartlett12:23

      So, the voice inside.

   4. MFMarie Forleo12:24

      Yes.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett12:25

      What is that voice?

   6. MFMarie Forleo12:26

      To me, I believe it is my intuition. It is my... When I say higher self, I believe the part of me that is timeless, that's probably been here before, and that will be here beyond this particular incarnation. And if anyone out there, I certainly do, believes in a higher power, that there are other levels of intelligence that are actually supportive of us, that's who I think that voice is.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett12:55

      Does everyone have that voice?

   8. MFMarie Forleo12:56

      I absolutely believe so. That's my personal belief. Everyone has that voice. They may not have been trained to articulate and understand and discern it, but I believe it's there.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett13:09

      What does it feel and sound like?

   10. MFMarie Forleo13:11

       Soft-spoken. It feels as though you're having an inner nudge towards something that may not make sense to the outside world. It may be counter to all of the social conditioning, the familial conditioning that you've been brought up with. But it is gentle, it is encouraging, and it is persistent.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett13:32

       I thought you were gonna say persistent, that's the last word. (laughs) I was like... Because I, I can, I can relate. Um, why is it that... And it's funny because I also agree that everyone has that voice, um, because when I have conversations with people, they will often tell me who they are and what they do.

   12. MFMarie Forleo13:50

       Yeah.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett13:51

       And then this, this second thing is they'll, like, whip out their phone and be like, "And I've got this art Instagram account," and I'm like, oh, the other voice has, like, infiltrated the, the asylum and it's, like, taking over a little bit. Like, "But I love doing art. I work in the city, I work in finance, but check out my art over here." It's kind of like they whisper that.

   14. MFMarie Forleo14:09

       Yes.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett14:09

       I'm like, that is the voice. That's the thing inside you that's been persistently working away at you. It made you, at 2:00 AM, launch that Instagram account. Um, but most people, because of the... There's another voice at play, which is the external voice, society, your mother, your parents, your immigrant parents telling you what work is. Instagram telling you what you should and shouldn't be and are. Um, that other voice, that external voice is so much stronger.

   16. MFMarie Forleo14:33

       Yeah.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett14:33

       It's so much stronger and it's everywhere.

   18. MFMarie Forleo14:35

       Yes.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett14:35

       It's in all of our friends, it's in our parents. It's up, down, left, right.

   20. MFMarie Forleo14:38

       Yes.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett14:39

       How does one go about taking the perceived, quote unquote, "risk" of tuning into that voice that's just whispering?

   22. MFMarie Forleo14:48

       Yes. Oh, I love this question, and I also love talking about this because I think it is one of the most powerful sources of wisdom that we all have. But there are so many things that we can talk about. I wanna talk about a few. One is, if you start to pay attention to the small things... So, I'll give you an example. I've actually been practicing, this is gonna sound extremely superficial, but stick with me. Intuitive shopping. I don't like to own a lot of things. I'm just not a person who likes a lot of clutter, and I just don't wanna have a bunch of crap laying around.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett15:19

       Mm-hmm.

   24. MFMarie Forleo15:19

       And so I realize that sometimes I'm like, "Oh, well, so-and-so..." If I try on an outfit or whatever, I'm like, "Oh, I think this looks pretty good." And I've been paying attention to like, "Nope, you're never gonna wear it." It sounds so silly, but when I quiet down and I listen, I'm like, "Okay, I have this little guidance for these little moments of my day on the best path to take." I want people to pay attention to the small moments. What you should order on a menu. Um, whether or not you should make a move with your partner. If people actually look back in time and start to look in their past, you'll see places where you heard that little voice and you overrode it and you got yourself into trouble. Do you know those times?

   25. SBSteven Bartlett15:57

       Of course.

   26. MFMarie Forleo15:58

       So everyone has, usually if you start to filter through your mind, it could have been a financial decision, it could have been a business decision, it could have been about someone to hire, it could have been about saying yes to a job, a relationship. But there were times when something in you was piping up and your ego or an external voice was like, "No, you gotta go for this. This is a great deal. This is gonna get you X, Y, and Z. You should say yes to this." And you overrode that little voice and it cost you big time. So, I think to answer the question, how do people start to kind of hone into that discernment? I think look in your past to where you ignored it before and you'll have examples of like, "Oh, that's what it sounds like. That's what it feels like." That's one. And then I think number two, this works for me. I'm someone who has ADHD, so I can have a very overactive brain. I need to meditate and I need to exercise. Those are two things that help me dial down the noise, so much of the static, and create enough space for that inner voice to not only feel... Like, for me to be able to detect it more, but for it to speak louder and for me to hear it.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett17:07

       One of the things that sometimes encourages us or wins in us overriding the voice, that small whispering inside you telling you who you are, wh- what you should be doing, where you should be, what you're capable of, is our own, like, fear, insecurities, and trauma. So like, I can think of multiple times where I've made bad decisions because I've been led too much by my insecurities.

   28. MFMarie Forleo17:29

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett17:30

       You know, whether it's money decisions, whether it's love decisions. Typically anything that's, like, cycle- psychological in its root. So money, food, these kinds of things.

   30. MFMarie Forleo17:38

       Yeah.
6. 18:07 – 23:39

   Following your intuition

   1. SBSteven Bartlett18:07

      voice?

   2. MFMarie Forleo18:07

      You know, it's a great question. I think we're all on a healing journey constantly.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett18:12

      Mm-hmm.

   4. MFMarie Forleo18:12

      'Cause I think all of us, you know, we've kind of collected little hurts, disappointments, um, things from our childhood, things from our adult experiences that kind of get lodged in there. I don't necessarily know that intuition...... requires, like, hearing your intuition, requires you to heal anything, because I think that voice is always trying to talk to you. And I think one of the best ways to understand it's your intuition and not fear, and we should maybe talk about that a little bit. That's, uh, uh, I can give people a very simple exercise about how to know, "Is this my intuition speaking up saying, 'No,' you know, like, 'You shouldn't go in this direction?' Or is this just fear because I wanna stay safe and I don't wanna put my ass on the line?" Here's how I tell it. So let's say I'm thinking about saying yes to a particular opportunity. It could be a business deal, it could be, you know, speaking at a particular, um, event, anything like that. When I close my eyes and just feel in my body and say, "Does the idea of saying yes to this make me feel expansive or contracted?" And Steven, when I ask that question, in a nanosecond, I say, "Okay, does saying yes to this speaking engagement feel expansive or contracted?" I guarantee, in your body, you feel something. It is so subtle, but either there is a lightness, there is like, your body starts to expand like this, you lean forward. There could be a little bit of joy, even if you're scared shitless.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett19:34

      Hmm.

   6. MFMarie Forleo19:34

      Even if saying yes to this is like, "Oh my goodness, that's the biggest opportunity ever!" Or your ego wants to say yes, but inside there's a part of you that says no. It closes down. You feel heavy. You feel a sense of dread. That's your intuition trying to lead you in the right direction.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett19:51

      Question.

   8. MFMarie Forleo19:51

      Yes?

   9. SBSteven Bartlett19:52

      Do you ever do things that are contractive in feeling?

   10. MFMarie Forleo19:56

       Oh my gosh, not as much anymore, but I did it so often earlier on my journey because I was so desperate for approval, and I was so desperate to be successful. And I had these ideas, "If I partner with this person, if I say yes to this particular activity, if I show up here, then I'm gonna have some kind of more stature," right? Or, "I'm gonna be noticed more." So these days, it happens much less frequently, and I feel like that just comes from having skinned my knees enough and tortured myself enough- (laughs)

   11. SBSteven Bartlett20:32

       Mm-hmm.

   12. MFMarie Forleo20:32

       ... and created enough pain, um, and chaos that I'm like, "I don't need to do that anymore."

   13. SBSteven Bartlett20:37

       Yeah, 'cause a lot of the time, the way, the reason I ask that particular question is a lot of time, a lot of the time there's a short-term carrot. I think that's the analogy for-

   14. MFMarie Forleo20:45

       Yes. (laughs)

   15. SBSteven Bartlett20:46

       There's a short-term carrot which goes, "Listen, we'll give you this if you come and do this thing."

   16. MFMarie Forleo20:49

       That's right.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett20:49

       You don't know if I can do it, but the short-term carrot can be tempting. Sometimes the long-term effects of taking a short-term carrot are dangerous. The other question I had, which, while I was thinking about this expansive-contractive thing, is, there has been times where something has made me feel contractive.

   18. MFMarie Forleo21:04

       Yep.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett21:04

       But when then I've gone and done it, I'm, "Oh my God."

   20. MFMarie Forleo21:08

       You're so glad that you did?

   21. SBSteven Bartlett21:09

       So glad I did it.

   22. MFMarie Forleo21:10

       I'm curious. When you felt contracted and then you overrode that, can you tell me more about whether it was the voice? Like, what made you override that feeling?

   23. SBSteven Bartlett21:21

       Um, money.

   24. MFMarie Forleo21:22

       Interesting.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett21:23

       You're gonna get paid loads of money to go and do this thing. I think, "Oh, fucking hell, I don't wanna travel."

   26. MFMarie Forleo21:27

       Yeah.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett21:27

       "I don't wanna go there and do it."

   28. MFMarie Forleo21:28

       Uh-huh.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett21:28

       But then you go there-

   30. MFMarie Forleo21:30

       Uh-huh.
7. 23:39 – 27:35

   How do I know to tune into the voice and know where to go

   1. MFMarie Forleo23:39

   2. SBSteven Bartlett23:39

      Yeah, so let's go back through then. So we're talking about this journey that led you to leave the publishing industry-

   3. MFMarie Forleo23:45

      Yes.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett23:45

      ... and decide to go back to being a waitress, but also pursuing the career of being a coach.

   5. MFMarie Forleo23:50

      Yes.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett23:50

      Couple of key things there that are, that we kind of glossed over, that are... I know people are sat at home thinking, they're in jobs they hate, they're in situations they hate. They, they hear the voice, they get it. The next part, I guess, there's two parts there. The next part is how do I, how do I tune into the voice and, and like, how do I, um... You were lucky in the sense that you read that article.

   7. MFMarie Forleo24:15

      Yes.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett24:15

      I say lucky, but maybe that's not the best use of words. You have, you read that article that came to you at that time.

   9. MFMarie Forleo24:20

      That's right.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett24:20

       Maybe the universe sent it to you.

   11. MFMarie Forleo24:22

       Who knows?

   12. SBSteven Bartlett24:22

       The jury's out, right?

   13. MFMarie Forleo24:24

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett24:24

       If I know I'm in the wrong place and the voice is saying, "Fuck, Steve, this mag- mag- magazine publishing-"... is not right.

   15. MFMarie Forleo24:30

       Yup.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett24:30

       But I don't know where the right place is.

   17. MFMarie Forleo24:32

       Yup.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett24:33

       How does one go about finding that right place?

   19. MFMarie Forleo24:35

       Okay. I love this question. So, here's a mantra, and I live my life by mantras, they help keep me on track, and here's one that really works: Clarity comes from engagement, not thought. Clarity comes from engagement, not thought. What does that mean in this context? It means that every single person listening right now, let's say they have a job and they're like, "I am done with this job, but I don't know what else I should be doing," there's something in them that has an interest. It could be an interest in art, it could be an interest in baking, it could be an interest in music. Find a way to go take action in that direction, no matter what it is. It could be interning for someone, working for them for free, picking up a book, taking a class. Finding some way to get involved in that area will give you not only insight, but it'll start to open up creative channels, you'll start to meet people, you'll start to say, "Oh, this is great as a hobby, but I would never wanna do this as a career." I think that all of the insight, clarity comes from engagement, not thought. You're not gonna figure it out sitting on your couch. You're not gonna figure it out necessarily scrolling on Instagram or your phone. You're gonna figure it out by getting into some kind of action and giving yourself permission to experiment, right? Giving yourself permission to try things, and it might not work, and that's okay, but you're gonna learn something, you're gonna discover something, you're gonna have a conversation, you'll stumble upon your own article where your own body lights up like a Christmas tree and you'll be like, "Oh, my goodness. This is the thing." But it's not gonna come if you sit at your desk every day, know that your work isn't right, but you don't do anything active to actually go find out what is.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett26:10

       But, you know, I'm busy. I've got four kids-

   21. MFMarie Forleo26:12

       (laughs)

   22. SBSteven Bartlett26:12

       ... I've got a job. I just don't have the time, Marie.

   23. MFMarie Forleo26:14

       Ugh. That's, uh, not having the time is probably one of the biggest excuses that we can all use from time to time, and it really is an excuse because all of us know when it's important enough, we make the time. If not, we make an excuse. We know this. If you're spending any amount of time on Instagram or TikTok, on social, if you listen to podcasts, if you do anything outside of your actual job and just feeding yourself and doing what you knew, what you need to do to stay alive, you have time. You really do. You have to do some basic math. I would recommend, we talk about this in the book, is track your time meticulously for seven days. You will be shocked at how much time flitters away doing things that don't really create a ton of value for you, that don't give you an opportunity to even have open time where you're not looking, you're not consuming anything, where you're not having other people's thoughts, ideas, or agendas inject into your head, where you're just giving yourself time to walk around the outside and take a walk in the block and in nature and actually let your mind think or wonder or rest or exercise or do any of these other things that can open creative channels where you'll get a download. And you'll get an idea like, "Oh, my God, I would've never thought of that," if your face was stuck in Netflix or Hulu or TikTok for, you know, the seven hours a day that you're not working.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett27:31

       Fine. I'm quitting my job.

   25. MFMarie Forleo27:34

       (laughs)

   26. SBSteven Bartlett27:34

       I'm quitting. Quitting

8. 27:35 – 29:14

   How do we get better at quitting?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett27:35

      is difficult.

   2. MFMarie Forleo27:36

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett27:36

      Why-

   4. MFMarie Forleo27:36

      It's scary.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett27:38

      Why is it so... How do we become better quitters? I was on stage this morning and I said on stage, and I said it all the time so it's like, I sound like a broken record, but, you know, we glamorize starting. It's like, "Oh, my God, they started this thing."

   6. MFMarie Forleo27:47

      Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett27:47

      But quitting is the equally important thing you have to do before you start.

   8. MFMarie Forleo27:51

      Yes.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett27:51

      And so quitting is just as much of a skill as, as starting anything. How do I become a better quitter? I look at your journey, continual quitting-

   10. MFMarie Forleo27:59

       Yeah. (laughs)

   11. SBSteven Bartlett28:00

       ... throughout. And it's funny, 'cause that almost sounds like an insult, doesn't it?

   12. MFMarie Forleo28:03

       No.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett28:04

       No, but it does on the surface, because quitting is for losers.

   14. MFMarie Forleo28:06

       I- Yes. Well, if you believe that.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett28:08

       That's the, that's the slogan.

   16. MFMarie Forleo28:09

       Right.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett28:09

       Quitting is for losers.

   18. MFMarie Forleo28:10

       Right.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett28:10

       But if you hadn't quit, imagine the, the misery.

   20. MFMarie Forleo28:13

       I would've been so miserable. And so I think there's a couple of things to it. One, I think understanding your risk adverseness as a human being is very important, and let me tell you what that means. For me, financially speaking, I'm fairly risk averse. So, because of my upbringing, because of this kind of perpetual financial s- scarcity that there was, I'm not the kind of person who's just gonna burn the ships behind me and say, "Okay, I'm quitting my job, you know, at the magazines, and let me just start this coaching business and figure it out." It was like, no, I went back to bartending and waiting tables pretty much seven days a week because that's what it took to keep the roof over my head and eating food while I figured out this life coaching business. So, I would say for anyone listening right now, if you're thinking about quitting, take a look inside. What's your risk adverseness? You know, there's a study that was done in the United States, they tracked about 14,000 entrepreneurs and they found that, um, those who kept their day job as they started their business were 33% less likely to fail.

9. 29:14 – 30:54

   Aspirations

   1. MFMarie Forleo29:14

      And so I think for anyone listening, it's like, okay, well, you may quit this job, but is there any other circumstance, whether you take another type of job, you go part-time, like what is gonna be the kind of financial runway or situation that you need to give yourself an ability to see if this business could work, if starting a business is what you wanna do?

   2. SBSteven Bartlett29:33

      And, and so after you quit, um, seven years doing side work-

   3. MFMarie Forleo29:38

      Yes-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett29:38

      ... side hustles.

   5. MFMarie Forleo29:39

      ... and growing, and figuring out the business.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett29:42

      When you quit, what was your aspirations for your coaching business?

   7. MFMarie Forleo29:45

      Oh, my goodness.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett29:45

      If I'd asked you on that day, I'm gonna say, you know, how, how long ago was that? That was 2006?

   9. MFMarie Forleo29:49

      Like, 2000. 2001.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett29:51

       Okay. Right. So, that's 20 odd years ago. If I'd asked you on that day, where are you gonna end up in 20 years?

   11. MFMarie Forleo29:57

       Oh, my goodness. I had no freaking clue. I, at that moment, I was just entrenched in my coach training and I wanted to be a great coach so badly, meaning I didn't really have a huge vision because everything was so new and I think there was so much uncertainty, and quite frankly, as a 23, 24-year-old, I didn't really have the ability to have vision. Like, I read so many success books, Stephen, that were like, you know, and this was like, a kind of a line in many of the networking talks I'd go to, it's like, "Well, what's your five-year vision?"

   12. SBSteven Bartlett30:27

       Oh, fuck. About it.

   13. MFMarie Forleo30:28

       Right? I was like-I have no idea.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett30:30

       Yeah.

   15. MFMarie Forleo30:30

       I'm literally trying to just get the next three paying clients. Like, I will coach your dog if you let me. I will coach... Do you know, that's where I was because I was so committed to trying to be the best coach I could be and I knew that I needed experience. I needed to work with as many people as possible. So, I had no vision for where this thing would go, I just kept taking the next step, and the next step, and the next step, and kind of doing this.

10. 30:54 – 34:04

    Perfectionism

    1. MFMarie Forleo30:54

    2. SBSteven Bartlett30:54

       It's not talked about enough what you've just said, because perfectionism is one of the things that causes procrastination. And especially as we set out to quit and start the new thing, you hear it all the time, I know you do, which is, "Well, I haven't got enough of this, and I haven't figured out this, and I need to find a mentor and an investor, and this, and a website name, and this and that." Whereas in reality, in everything I've ever done, it's this, like, horrifically messy stumbling forward in, into the darkness. Like... (laughs) And even with this podcast, like I'll tell you how it came to be, was I enjoyed doing it. That was it. That was the thesis. Didn't know how we'd make money, didn't know how big it would get, didn't know if other people would like it. Actually, still blown away that anyone listens because-

    3. MFMarie Forleo31:33

       (laughs)

    4. SBSteven Bartlett31:33

       ... it's like, it's been one of the most amazing, like life-affirming things that people care about the types of conversations we have here.

    5. MFMarie Forleo31:38

       Yes.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett31:38

       But I think that's such an important message because perfectionism, as you write about in the book, I... You talk about p- progress and perfectionism and which one to choose. It's such a, it's such an imprisoning notion that is so pumped up by, like, fake life coaches and fake entrepreneurs that want to try and sell you something to make themse- by making themselves seem like they are super special and God-gifted.

    7. MFMarie Forleo32:01

       Yes.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett32:01

       Where we're all just messy little unorganized, scared, um, frauds.

    9. MFMarie Forleo32:07

       100%. And so human. And so this is the other thing, like, so start before you're ready. So Steven, I have to tell... Like, as a young life coach, I knew how ridiculous it all sounded. It sounded cheesy to me. Again, can I tell you my first workshop? There was five people in it. I was 24.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett32:25

        That's a lot.

    11. MFMarie Forleo32:26

        My parents (laughs) -

    12. SBSteven Bartlett32:27

        Oh wow, okay.

    13. MFMarie Forleo32:28

        ... were two of them.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett32:29

        Right.

    15. MFMarie Forleo32:29

        My yoga instructor from college, and, um, one of her neighbors, actually two of her neighbors that she pulled in off of the street, and I had created a whole little workbook. I had done it with, like, Microsoft Clip Art. I stapled the little workbooks together and I stood in front of five people in my yoga teacher's basement in New Jersey, and I delivered, like, a day-long workshop. And like, I think back to that cringey Marie, but she was also awesome 'cause she started before she was ready. She didn't know what the hell was going on, but she did it. And it was like the worst thing I probably ever did, but I did it. And then it gave me a little bit of experience to then, like, go do something else, and then go do something else. So to your point, it's like everything for me has been messy. I'm like, "I don't know if this is gonna work." (laughs)

    16. SBSteven Bartlett33:15

        Mm-hmm.

    17. MFMarie Forleo33:15

        "This sounds like a lot of fun. I have energy towards it. I wanna make a difference. Let's try it."

    18. SBSteven Bartlett33:21

        And what about today as you sit here now?

    19. MFMarie Forleo33:22

        Yeah. Um, today, it's still messy. I talk about this all the time. I'm like, "You know, 99% of what any of us need to do to grow our business we've never done before, so we don't know what the hell we're doing." That's why, for me, "Everything is Figureoutable," this phrase, is so useful. Like, I use it every day still. It's not like there's some blueprint or some roadmap to guaranteed success out there. Like, that's not how it works. And if you're someone who's innovative or creative or you're trying to do something outside of the box, there certainly ain't no playbook. So, you have to be willing to just try things and experiment and flop around and laugh at yourself, and then get up the next day and do it again.

11. 34:04 – 35:50

    The three stages of figuring anything out

    1. MFMarie Forleo34:04

    2. SBSteven Bartlett34:04

       In the book, you talk about these, the three ph- points of philosophy that-

    3. MFMarie Forleo34:08

       Oh, the three rules.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett34:10

       The three rules, yeah, that underpin this figureoutable mindset.

    5. MFMarie Forleo34:13

       Yes.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett34:14

       What are those?

    7. MFMarie Forleo34:15

       So, rule number one is that all problems or dreams are figureoutable. Rule number two, if a problem or a dream isn't figureoutable, it's a law of nature, right? So death, maybe taxes. Rule number three, you may not care enough to solve a particular dream or reach a particular goal, and that's okay. Find something that you do care deeply about and go back to rule number one. And what that does is it creates a container, a container for us as human beings to be honest about what we care enough about to go figure it out. Because in, in my life there hasn't been one thing yet that I have truly wanted to either understand, achieve, transform... Do you know what I mean? Have some-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett35:02

       100%.

    9. MFMarie Forleo35:03

       ... different relationship with, that when it was true in my heart, that I haven't been able to figure it out. And if I don't wanna figure something out, like I can get real with myself, like, "I don't care enough about this to go figure it out right now."

    10. SBSteven Bartlett35:15

        That's super important-

    11. MFMarie Forleo35:16

        Yes.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett35:16

        ... point number three. It's the one we don't talk about.

    13. MFMarie Forleo35:19

        Yeah.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett35:19

        Because we'll all have goals in our life that we, we think are important, we thi- we think we wanna do. "I wanna, you know, I wanna become a DJ. I wanna start working out and get a six pack. I wanna be an artist." They, they, they often don't happen, and we, we end up thinking that they haven't happened because we are an unmotivated person. So we say, you know, we start beating ourself up, "I'm unmotivated, I'm a failure. I'll just keep trying at it." We very rarely pause and go, "Do I actually want it?" And there's this weird thing that

12. 35:50 – 41:13

    People that want something but don’t do anything about it

    1. SBSteven Bartlett35:50

       I, that I noticed, which I won't name the person, but they know who they are 'cause I know they're listening. There's this weird thing that I observed which taught me a really important lesson. It's just sometimes, like, we want to want something, and the way... (laughs) My partner's just laughing now.

    2. MFMarie Forleo36:04

       (laughs)

    3. SBSteven Bartlett36:04

       The way that I describe that is like, we want to want something.

    4. MFMarie Forleo36:10

       Yes.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett36:10

       We want to have the motivation to do the thing, so-

    6. MFMarie Forleo36:12

       We want to want it.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett36:14

       Yeah. We want to want it, so like-

    8. MFMarie Forleo36:14

       We think we should want it.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett36:16

       Yeah. So we, so we go around saying we want it. So like, "I wanna, I really wanna go and lift weights." I might say, "Steven, I really wanna..." You know, I-

    10. MFMarie Forleo36:23

        Yeah.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett36:23

        ... I'm saying to the world, "I... Do you know? I really wanna go and lift weights." But it's because I want to be the type of person that wants to be that, that wants that.

    12. MFMarie Forleo36:29

        Yes.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett36:30

        So I go around saying it, but I don't actually want it. I just want to want it.

    14. MFMarie Forleo36:33

        Yes. I had this same conversation with my best friend, and we were laughing about this, because I have put so much pressure on myself at so many different points of my career because I think I should want something-

    15. SBSteven Bartlett36:46

        Yeah.

    16. MFMarie Forleo36:47

        ... and I'm like, "But if I..." Okay, for example, I think you'll appreciate this because I think you and I share a similar philosophy perhaps, uh, um, about social media, for example.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett36:56

        Mm-hmm.

    18. MFMarie Forleo36:57

        So, I suck at social media, right? (laughs) I'm never on it. I don't put any attention, and I actually had a colleague of mine say to me, like, "Marie, you're so good at what you do, like why aren't your numbers bigger?" And it was like one of these... Do you know like when someone makes a comment and you're like, "Oh, that kind of feels like a punch in the gut"?

    19. SBSteven Bartlett37:14

        (laughs)

    20. MFMarie Forleo37:14

        And you're just like, "Oh, oh, I, I don't know." And anyone who knows me, my friends, and even my audience, they know, I'm like very transparent, like I don't spend a lot of time on my phone. Like, I prefer to write books, I create programs, like there's other things, and then I, I just wanna live my life.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett37:28

        Mm-hmm.

    22. MFMarie Forleo37:29

        Like, I feel like I'm like, oh, there's like, "Oh, if I was really committed to being a change maker, then I would be making videos." I was like, "What the hell is that philosophy?" Like, I remember torturing myself, "I should want to want that."

    23. SBSteven Bartlett37:42

        Exactly.

    24. MFMarie Forleo37:42

        But the truth is, I don't.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett37:44

        Exactly.

    26. MFMarie Forleo37:44

        Because-

    27. SBSteven Bartlett37:44

        And that's the hard part to admit.

    28. MFMarie Forleo37:46

        Yes. Yes.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett37:47

        That's the really hard part to admit, that we just don't care enough.

    30. MFMarie Forleo37:49

        Yeah.
13. 41:13 – 43:45

    Being honest

    1. SBSteven Bartlett41:13

       The other part of that, that switching from "I can't" to "I won't" is in the external relationships we have with others-

    2. MFMarie Forleo41:22

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett41:22

       ... because I made the mistake with my partner once upon a time of when she suggested something to me and I did not wanna do it, I would say, "I can't."

    4. MFMarie Forleo41:31

       Mm.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett41:31

       Right? What I'm doing is I'm absolutely lying to her because she, you know, she, she wants to go and do this thing at this place and I'd go, "Sorry, I can't," because I'd point at my schedule like, "Ah, sorry." You know, what I'm doing is I'm, is I'm telling her I want to, so ask me again in the future because I'm interested, but I can't right now because of an external factor. So my girlfriend keeps asking me if I wanna do this thing and I'm continuing to, continue to say I can't. And it's building a really inauthentic relationship. One that's fundamentally built on a set of lies. There was a point, and I think it was 'cause one of my podcast guests, where I just tried being honest.

    6. MFMarie Forleo42:04

       Yeah.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett42:04

       And it was the best thing I've ever done.

    8. MFMarie Forleo42:06

       Yes.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett42:07

       And, and do you know what? She really appreciated it, me going, "Do you know? I don't wanna do that." It's so important. Even in, you know, in business and in relationships and all of those things, someone being honest with you is very rare that it's so effective when they are. I, I actually took a phone call as I was coming down the stairs to start this conversation from someone, and they called me and said, "Hi, Steven. Just so you know, this is a cold call. So if you don't, if you, um, don't wanna do the call, just hang up now. But if you've got 20 seconds, let me know." And I was shocked.

    10. MFMarie Forleo42:36

        (laughs)

    11. SBSteven Bartlett42:37

        Absolutely shocked. The guy probably li- I think he told me he listens. And I said to him, "What, what? Fuck it, that's brilliant." 'Cause usually I'm like, I spend 10 seconds trying to figure out if they're trying to sell me something so I can just crack on with my day. But him to be so honest with me, and go, by the way, he literally went, "This is a cold call. I'm gonna tell you about a product. If you don't wanna take the call, feel free to hang up now." And I was like, "Whoa, this is amazing." (laughs)

    12. MFMarie Forleo42:58

        You're like, "This guy's got game. Of course."

    13. SBSteven Bartlett42:59

        So I said, "Of course."

    14. MFMarie Forleo42:59

        Yeah.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett42:59

        I was like, "What is it?" He told me, like I went on their website. I looked it up. I said, "We use a different tool called Brandwatch," so, but I said like, "This has been so inspiring, your honesty with me, that it was so disarming."

    16. MFMarie Forleo43:09

        Yeah.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett43:09

        And I think people are smarter than we give them credit for. So what's, what's happened on every cold call that I've ever received is that I, you know, they call me and go, "Hi, Steven. Is this Steven Bartlett?" I go, "Who is it?"

    18. MFMarie Forleo43:19

        (laughs)

    19. SBSteven Bartlett43:19

        They go, "Is this Steven Bartlett?" I go, "Who is it?" They go, "Just wanna check, is this Steven Bartlett?" I go, "Yeah." They go, "Tsk."So, what are you doing with your data infrastructure things at the moment? Because we've got an offer and it's like, (growling) and then I'm like, "Fuck it, get out of there."

    20. MFMarie Forleo43:31

        (laughs)

    21. SBSteven Bartlett43:31

        But it- but the honesty was so disarming. And people are smarter than we give them credit for.

    22. MFMarie Forleo43:35

        Mm-hmm.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett43:35

        So when you go around telling your friends or your loved ones, whatever, or your work colleagues that you can't, they know.

    24. MFMarie Forleo43:40

        Yes.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett43:40

        They know-

    26. MFMarie Forleo43:41

        Yes.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett43:41

        ... that you don't want to.

    28. MFMarie Forleo43:42

        Totally.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett43:43

        So, something I want to think,

14. 43:45 – 49:17

    Romantic love

    1. SBSteven Bartlett43:45

       you talked about re- we talked about relationships there, a topic we haven't touched on completely. It's funny, I know you wrote a book in 2000 and... I'm gonna say eight, that's when it was published.

    2. MFMarie Forleo43:54

       Yeah, the earliest version was actually like 2002. It was a e-book-

    3. SBSteven Bartlett43:58

       Ah.

    4. MFMarie Forleo43:58

       ... that was full of hot pink and a lot of exclamation points.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett44:04

       That tells me everything about how you feel about the book today.

    6. MFMarie Forleo44:06

       Yeah. Oh, I, A, I still stand behind the book today, but I was just, it's also an explanation of how things evolve.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett44:13

       Yeah, right, fine.

    8. MFMarie Forleo44:14

       Yeah.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett44:14

       What's your journey been like with romantic love?

    10. MFMarie Forleo44:17

        Oh my goodness. So, um, challenging like most people. One of my biggest challenges was actually, I've known from a very, very young age that I basically never wanted to be married or have children.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett44:32

        Why?

    12. MFMarie Forleo44:32

        So, that was just like, it was this inner knowing, you know, many young girls, at least my friends, they would fantasize about like my wedding day and, you know, there was lots of dolls and okay, this is my baby and all that stuff. And I just never had any of those desires or inklings. And as I became a teenager, like-

    13. SBSteven Bartlett44:54

        Why, why do you think, do you know?

    14. MFMarie Forleo44:56

        I don't know besides I know it's my truth, and I have never wavered on it.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett45:03

        Could it be related to your parents' relationship at all?

    16. MFMarie Forleo45:06

        It could, it very well could. Prior to Josh, I would meet folks and, and, and be in relationship and they would be like, "Okay, so we're gonna get married, then we're gonna have kids." And I'm like, "Are you actually listening? Because that's not what this thing wants." (laughs) "That's, that is not the path I'm on." So it was actually really, really challenging, um, until I, until Josh and I got together back in 2003 and I felt like I had found my soulmate.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett45:32

        How much have you thought about how your early experiences have like impacted your attachment style? When I look at some of my friends and the, the relationships they have, they often seem to mirror the model they learned in their household.

    18. MFMarie Forleo45:45

        Yeah. So I've actually gone, so a couple things. This has been an area of fascination for me, mostly because, A, I just want to be a really good partner and a good human. And especially with Josh, like, we've had so many ups and downs. Oh my god, Steven, we've done so much therapy. And I'm gonna share something, I don't know if you have interviewed these, this couple yet or you're familiar with their work, but these folks, in my opinion, they were the game changers. And it does relate to kind of early childhood impressions and how we were brought up and how that impacts how you interact in your adult relationships. So, um, the most game-changing work that I've ever done when it comes to having a healthy relationship is from Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt. So there's a book called Getting the Love You Want. It was like huge, I think in the '90s and then maybe the early 2000s. I had never heard of it, but Josh and I stumbled upon it when honestly we were on, we were in a really, really tough place and I didn't know if we were gonna make it through. And, um, Josh had been talking with someone who was like, "Oh, you guys should try Imago therapy," which is the kind of therapy that they have developed this whole body of work. There's international therapists, they're frigging fantastic. I was like, "We must study with these people." So they kind of talk about the fact that every single person, um, you learn things in your family unit. So for me, there was a lot of kind of smothering that happened at certain points. So I need to be free.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett47:16

        Mm-hmm.

    20. MFMarie Forleo47:16

        I need to be free. And for Josh, one of his kind of core, and they, they use this language and you know, it, like a childhood wound. For him it was abandonment. So he wants to be close. So oftentimes we will pick the person that has the exact opposite childhood wound. So for me, someone that wants freedom, of course is gonna choose a partner that wants more attachment. So in their work, it's actually like you choose the perfect partner to heal the very things that you need to heal. So for me, the, you were saying, okay, do you think that has to relate to just the fact that I don't want to get married? Just the fact that all that stuff do, does that relate? It probably does because there was a lot of me wanting to be free in my childhood, a lot of me feeling very constricted and held back. And so, um, for Josh it was the opposite, but I would highly recommend their work if you have not explored it. If anyone has not explored it, it totally saved us.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett48:14

        With Josh, you talk about the hard times in, um, around 2017? Was it around then?

    22. MFMarie Forleo48:19

        It was, we had several. We had, um, so when my stepson was leaving for college, I think this was around maybe 2009 or '10. I might be getting the years wrong, forgive me. But, um, I was basically, I was such a workaholic. I was such a workaholic and he was so just desirous of just more attention. And I was so obsessed with my business and so obsessed with trying to be successful and this fear if I slowed down that it would all be taken away. And this fear that if I didn't continue to work and build, that I was gonna lose everything. And it almost destroyed my relationship. It was terrible. We had been together, I think, oh, I can probably do the math better now. So we'd been together about six or seven years. We met in 2003, so it was probably about 2010. And we had never once taken a proper vacation together, because I always said that I couldn't because I was too busy working.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett49:16

        Wow.

    24. MFMarie Forleo49:16

        Yeah.

15. 49:17 – 52:02

    “I’m too busy” is bullshit

    1. MFMarie Forleo49:17

    2. SBSteven Bartlett49:17

       I, it's so funny, um, I have a friend who is, reminds me of you so much in that way, in the sense that she has an immigrant story. She came to this country when she was super young. She was, um...... bullied in school. She found some, you know, she, she found ... They didn't have any money. That was the source of much of the pain in her home. She started a business, starts to go well, she doesn't want to get married, she doesn't want to have kids. Her partner has recently broken up with her because her partner is not getting any time from her.

    3. MFMarie Forleo49:51

       Sure.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett49:51

       And she just works all the time. I watch her and I think, "You're being dragged by that fear of going back to your childhood. You're being dragged by it." Al- like, like her being tied to the back of a car that's just flying down the motorway.

    5. MFMarie Forleo50:09

       Yes.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett50:09

       I j- and I just don't know what to say to her, because she w- she's suffering the consequences of not having connections, or friends, or love in her life.

    7. MFMarie Forleo50:19

       Yes.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett50:20

       But her ankle is attached to the back of this lorry and it is flying down the motorway. Her business is f- killing it. When I say killing it, I mean she is probably worth hundreds of millions. She's super young. She's in her early, she's in her 20s, um, but she's unhappy. But she can't get off the fucking lorry. It's dragging her.

    9. MFMarie Forleo50:39

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett50:39

        What do you say to someone like that?

    11. MFMarie Forleo50:40

        I think that it's really important for every person to come to that realization that they may be killing it in certain areas, and then to be honest enough to say the areas where it's not working. And then I would always come back to if you want this, it's kind of like we go back to everything is figureoutable, if having love in your life, friendships in your life, adventure in your life, downtime in your life is important to you, you can absolutely figure it out. And what I've seen in my own journey, and this is my own personal estimation of myself, I've actually become way more successful, I've become a better coach, I've become a better teacher, I've become a better friend, I've become a better partner not being dragged by my drive. Not allowing the fear of losing any success that I've built be the force that keeps me from the richest parts of my life, which are my connections. For anyone who's, who's in that space right now, they have to want to make that choice to change and then be willing to, as much as they took the risk to start a business, they have to be even more courageous to redefine their own success at a higher different level. And it takes courage. It takes a lot of courage.

16. 52:02 – 57:53

    Redefining your sucess

    1. MFMarie Forleo52:02

    2. SBSteven Bartlett52:02

       So, how did you re- redefine your own definition of success at a high level?

    3. MFMarie Forleo52:06

       So for me, it was around really stepping back and asking myself what matters most. Like, is it the money in the bank account? Is it the amount of followers, or customers, or whatever? And I remember sitting in that therapy chair and, like, thinking about what I've grown and then seeing this beautiful man and going like, "You know what? It's not about choosing either or, but, like, you've got a problem, Marie, and you gotta fix this." Like, this thing, meaning the business, cannot be your number one priority. If you know in your heart that love is the most important thing in life, then you need to start demonstrating that. You need to start acting that. You need to start making time for that. God.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett52:44

       "You know in your heart."

    5. MFMarie Forleo52:46

       Yes.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett52:46

       So, this is the interesting thing, because we all know-

    7. MFMarie Forleo52:48

       Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett52:49

       ... like, objectively know because we've read a- read that it's true. We might... You know, I, I see this a lot. I see, like, we know we should. (laughs) Goes back to kind of the one thing to one thing.

    9. MFMarie Forleo53:00

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett53:01

        I know that people are happier when they have friends and when they have a romantic partner typically, in whatever dynamic that's- that relationship is formed. I know that to be true. But I feel like I need to keep building this fucking business and climbing that ladder. And-

    11. MFMarie Forleo53:17

        Sure.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett53:17

        ... it's such a intense, strong, all-consuming feeling just to keep on going, keep throwing coal into the engine of this train.

    13. MFMarie Forleo53:24

        Yep.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett53:25

        But I know I should spend time with my friends.

    15. MFMarie Forleo53:28

        This is where I'm gonna go back. Well, all this stuff, so as it relates ... And I think those are maybe two different slight nuances. So, I would go back to the Helen and the Harville work. Like, there's a couple of tools that they teach you, one of which is this tool called dialogue. It's a very structured form of having a conversation with your loved one. Steven, I cannot tell you how healing this particular form of work is. You can probably look it up online. They do tons of workshops very inexpensively. They're actually even taking their workshops into, um, police departments, like, because it is transformative, how it helps people connect, how it helps people see each other, how it helps people hear each other, and how it helps people heal. And when Josh and I started practicing these tools that we learned from, from Harville and Helen, something in me relaxed and I was able to see, and hear, and recognize, and understand Josh's needs in a way that did not feel threatening to my own drive for my own success. It was as if previously those two things were at odds-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett54:26

        Mm-hmm.

    17. MFMarie Forleo54:27

        ... and then all of a sudden everything was integrated, where he felt really heard and seen and I felt really heard and seen, and it was as though that battle completely disintegrated. And so no longer was it this or that, no longer was it, "Well, either give me attention or ..." You know what I mean? "I have to give up this business." No, it was like, "Oh, now I understand what he really needs," which is not tons of time. It's actually presence and giving him support and love in the way that he can really feel it and how he gets nurtured, and it's completely different than how I do. But again, this is, like, a practice, and it's nothing that we're taught in school. (laughs)

    18. SBSteven Bartlett55:06

        Mm-hmm.

    19. MFMarie Forleo55:06

        So, we're all just stumbling around, at least I was and, and Josh and I were. And now it feels like Josh is so much more supportive of all the things I do in my business. And ironically, not, it's not that I care less, but I'm less driven by fear.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett55:21

        Mm-hmm.

    21. MFMarie Forleo55:21

        It's more driven by desire, and fun, and creativity. "Wouldn't it be cool if ... Oh, let's try that." And only saying yes to things that are, like, a full body yes, not saying yes to things because I think it's gonna get me somewhere or it's gonna, you know, get that bag so much bigger. It's like, "You know what? At some point, enough's enough." I'm sure you've experienced this.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett55:38

        Mm-hmm.

    23. MFMarie Forleo55:38

        It's like, when does enough become enough?

    24. SBSteven Bartlett55:42

        Quick word from one of our sponsors. I've got a tip for all of you that will make your virtual meeting experiences, I think, ten times better. As some of you may know by now, BlueJeans by Verizon offers seamless, high-quality video conferencing. But the reason why I use BlueJeans versus other video conferencing tools is because of immersion. Their tools make you feel more connected to the employees or customers you're trying to engage with. And now they're launching one of their biggest feature enhancements to impact virtual events so far called BlueJeans Studio. I actually used it the other day, I did an, a virtual event using the studio, which I think about 700 of you came to. TV-level production quality, all done by one person with very little technical experience on a laptop. So, if you've got an event coming up and you're thinking about doing it virtually, check out BlueJeans Studio now. Let me know what you think 'cause I genuinely believe, I know this is an advert and I'm supposed to say this, but I genuinely believe it's the best tool I've seen for doing really immersive, simple but high-quality production virtual events. (page turns) Quick one. It's so crazy that in the last couple of months I've had so many people tag me on Instagram, even on Telegram and in my Twitter DMs, in a picture of them starting their Huel journey. And it's one of the most amazing things in my life that I get to do a podcast, which of course needs money to, to, to fuel, and I have a sponsor like Huel who I genuinely believe is gonna help every single person who starts their Huel journey change their life. Because this podcast, the central intention of this podcast is to help people live better lives. And we get to sit here and I get to promote to you a product which has not only helped me change my life, but is gonna help millions of people and is helping millions of people live a nutritionally complete life. It's so, it's such an incredible product, and for me the reason why it's incredible, look, is because it gives me my protein, it gives me my vitamins, minerals, it's plant-based, it's low in sugar, gluten free. It does all of that in a small drink that tastes good. There are other products, there's foods, there's the hot and savory collection, many other things. But for me, this ready-to-drink is the absolute savior of my diet throughout the week, where I'm moving at such pace. Look, I don't wanna labor the point, but if you haven't tried Huel, give it a try and if you do, tag me, Instagram, wherever you try it, give me a tag. Anyway, back to the podcast. (page turns)

17. 57:53 – 1:00:46

    Stigma of being a woman and saying all of this

    1. SBSteven Bartlett57:53

       I did actually wanna ask, because men don't often, including me as a man, we don't often appreciate the social battle that, and the social stigma and criticism that women who say the things like, "I wanna focus on my career."

    2. MFMarie Forleo58:10

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett58:10

       "I don't wanna have kids. I don't wanna get married," sometimes undergo. And I've, I've c- 'cause I have these conversations now, I'm continually, like, cognizant of my own bias in the way that I ask the questions.

    4. MFMarie Forleo58:20

       Yeah.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett58:22

       How do you view all of that? Like, how do you view the, the pressure that women face to fall in line with the old school stereotype of kids, th- the, in such a changing world?

    6. MFMarie Forleo58:34

       Yeah. You know, it's really interesting. W- so one of the things I do on my show, Marie TV, is I answer questions. I love just taking questions from our audience and answering them. And one of our viewers said, "Hey, Marie, how did you decide not to have kids?" And we had never covered the topic before. And I was like, "Oh, well let me just, I wanna talk about that." And it was one of the most popular episodes that we haven't, we've ever had. And it was because it sparked this discussion just about choice and about, "Oh wow, you just didn't want them and you knew that? It, like, wasn't a struggle?" And I'm like, that's maybe not everyone's journey and that's great, but I need to be honest about mine. Because one of the things, and we've had talks with my mom about this, it's like her kind of set prescription was so there from society and from, it's like, you get married and you have kids and that was, I think, her authentic dream, but it was also the conditioning, right? And, um, I just think it's interesting. I like talking about it because I think it's really important for every woman to know that she has the right to choose her destiny. And whether that destiny includes a family, doesn't include a family, includes some semblance of what she believes is a family, like, I want women to have that choice. I can't tell you how many comments were under that video, people left comments anonymously, who had given birth and absolutely loved their kids and said, "I would've made a different choice if I knew I had one." And it was shocking how many women feel that they must follow this prescription. And I think in 2022 when we're recording this, I'm like, you know, my eyes bulge outta my head. I'm like, "No, they don't have to." And we need everyone's gifts. And it's like, I just knew from the moment that I could understand, I was like, "That is not my path in this lifetime. My path in this lifetime is to help people give birth to their ideas and to possibilities. It's not necessarily to give birth to a physical child through my physical body." (laughs)

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:34

       Mm-hmm.

    8. MFMarie Forleo1:00:35

       And so, um, I like to talk about it just because I want women to have as many choices as they possibly can to be as brilliant and as impactful and happy as they possibly can.

18. 1:00:46 – 1:04:34

    Time genius

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:46

       Yeah. Certainly not, certainly not a topic we talk about enough.

    2. MFMarie Forleo1:00:49

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:50

       Because it, it goes back to these kind of, like, c- colliding narratives. The narrative is much stronger that, you know, you get married at this age, you do this, you get a mortgage, you get a house, you have your kids.

    4. MFMarie Forleo1:00:59

       Totally.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:59

       It's all before here. If you don't, you're a failure.

    6. MFMarie Forleo1:01:01

       That's right.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:01

       We all feel that. Men feel it too in other ways, but I think the, the social pressure sometimes is a little bit more intense on women to meet these deadlines and these timelines.

    8. MFMarie Forleo1:01:09

       Yeah.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:10

       Time Genius.

    10. MFMarie Forleo1:01:12

        Yes.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:12

        Before we started talking, I asked you what was front of mind at the moment, and you said Time Genius.

    12. MFMarie Forleo1:01:16

        Yes.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:17

        Why did you say that?

    14. MFMarie Forleo1:01:18

        So, uh, probably for, I would say almost a year and a half if not two years, so much of my own creative energy has been pouring into this, uh, new program, this new experience that we created, really born out of my own pain. I...... hit a wall, um, at the end of 2020 where I didn't realize how burned out I was, I think like many of us, and I found myself in this position, uh, that I'd never found myself in my whole career where I started dreading waking up in the morning. And so, I went on this journey of discovering and putting together, like, how do we heal the paradigm of living in time stress? And I describe that where it's like you don't know what to focus on first when you wake up in the morning 'cause there's so many things to do. You feel guilty if you take a rest for five minutes because your brain says, "I should be doing something more important." You have trouble prioritizing. You feel like no matter how many hours you put in, it's never enough. So, uh, we put together this program and it has honestly helped me so much (laughs) . And then I shared it with my audience. I've never seen anything get results for people. It has changed everything for me. I went on, um, you know-

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:28

        What is it?

    16. MFMarie Forleo1:02:29

        What is it?

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:29

        Yeah. (laughs)

    18. MFMarie Forleo1:02:30

        It's, there's, there's really five key parts to it. First, it's about changing our mindset from the inside out about getting out of time stress and living as a time genius where you know in your bones and in practice that there is always time for what's most important. It's a complete different paradigm. Again, we can talk more about it. It's a little bit too lengthy to get into everything here.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:50

        Mm-hmm.

    20. MFMarie Forleo1:02:50

        The second part of it is when you know what's important, you can ignore what's not. I found that for me, in different parts of my life, and I'm pretty good at this one, but I can... I'm always practicing, is if there's too much on my plate, if everything's important, nothing's important. And then all of a sudden I'm working all the time. I've got 17 plates in the air, but when I have one project, one primary project and everything else is kind of secondary, my life has spaciousness. I have focus, beautiful work gets done. Like, it's just a different way to operate. And you have such an easier time saying no to things when you know exactly what's important at this stage and season of your life. Then there's the third step is really about setting yourself up to win every single day, and we're all different in this way. So if you think about, you know, do you like having a messy desk or a clean desk? Somewhere in the middle?

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:39

        Well, (laughs) I like having a clean desk, but my desk is always messy.

    22. MFMarie Forleo1:03:44

        But, so you probably operate pretty well through there, like it's comfortable for you.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:47

        I've survived thus far, yeah. (laughs)

    24. MFMarie Forleo1:03:48

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. But some people are like, I know people that are minimalist and-

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:52

        Mm-hmm.

    26. MFMarie Forleo1:03:52

        ... you know, it's like I love having my books around me. I love having notebooks around me, but a lot of people don't make an ecosystem or design their environment to really help them thrive. And then of course, there's certain things we can do with technology to make sure we're never interrupted, that distractions don't happen, different things we can do with our brain. Um, and then it's a lot about kind of setting yourself up for follow-through and not relying on motivation, which as you know, the silliest thing to rely on, on Earth. (laughs)

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:18

        Yeah.

    28. MFMarie Forleo1:04:18

        So that's kind of like the brief overview of it. But as I've been walking people through this program and seeing how fast they get results, it just makes me happy because folks are... they're lowering their stress levels. They're having time to be with their kids. They're taking walks on the beach. They're getting more done in less time and they're not feeling

19. 1:04:34 – 1:11:10

    ADHD

    1. MFMarie Forleo1:04:34

       exhausted anymore. And so it's a really rewarding thing.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:37

       One of the words I wrote down as you were talking was multi-passionate entrepreneur.

    3. MFMarie Forleo1:04:40

       Yes, yes.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:42

       You said you had ADHD.

    5. MFMarie Forleo1:04:43

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:44

       Is that somewhat linked to your multi-passionate entrepreneurialism?

    7. MFMarie Forleo1:04:50

       It's g- It's a great question that I don't know if I have a good answer to. Um, because I'm certainly not a clinical psychologist.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:58

       Mm-hmm.

    9. MFMarie Forleo1:04:58

       Like, I went to, um, the best ADHD doctor in the country who gave me the diagnosis and he's like, "You have the gift." I'm like, "Thank you. I have the gift. Thank you very much."

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:08

        (laughs)

    11. MFMarie Forleo1:05:08

        So, I don't know if those two things are linked. Um, but what I do know is anytime that I've shared that phrase with many people, they're like, "Oh my gosh, I think I'm multi-passionate too." It's the person that has this beautiful business and has that art Instagram account and is an amazing chef too. And it just gives us, again, it's a silly little phrase that just kind of gives you a little bit of a playground to talk about your different interests in maybe a way that doesn't make you feel as broken as I did.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:34

        Where does focus sit within that? Because that, when people hear that they think of a lack of focus.

    13. MFMarie Forleo1:05:39

        Yeah.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:39

        Which is the, as you say, the antithesis of like entrepreneurial advice. It's like focus on something, do it for 10 years, be consistent, but focus.

    15. MFMarie Forleo1:05:46

        That's right. So, I tried that, that approach because I read about it so much and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I must follow what everyone says 'cause that's the path to success." And Steven, when I tried to just be a coach and just do like the bartending on the side to earn money, I felt like I was cutting off a limb. There were so many other pieces of me that were screaming to be expressed and I was like, "What's wrong with me?"

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:10

        Mm-hmm.

    17. MFMarie Forleo1:06:10

        Why can't I just be a coach and be happy and then do my bartending? Like, why can't it be that simple? But I was probably, um, 23 or 24 and I loved dance. I was not a trained dancer. It was just something that was in my body and in my soul. And I sat down with myself and I did something called the ten-year test. This is something that has served me well too. I thought, I said, "Okay, Marie, if when you're 34 and you look back and you did not at least try to make dance a part of your career, will you regret it?" And the answer was, "Hell, yes." So, when I was 24, even though I didn't have any dance training and it was just a passion, I started taking more dance classes and I started, um, teaching fitness classes, which got me into a whole world of eventually becoming a Nike Dance athlete. But the point of that is, I tried to follow that path of one thing and I just failed miserably, and because I was so unhappy, I said, "All right, fuck it. (laughs) I'm gonna pursue dance. I'm gonna pursue coaching. I'm gonna do the bartending. I'm gonna let all of my different interests thrive," knowing that I couldn't do that forever. I knew I wouldn't earn as much money as a coach. I knew I was gonna kind of keep everything a little bit slower because my focus would be split, but the joy and the fulfillment that came from giving myself permission to pursue all these different things far outweighed any slowness of growth or financial gain.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:35

        I think that's the, I think that's it. I think, um... I was thinking about it as you were speaking and the trap there, or the... Typically, ah, it w- you know, we get ourselves in really complicated positions in life because words, a single word, like find your passion, it's a singular word.

    19. MFMarie Forleo1:07:51

        Yes.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:51

        So within the fact that there's an S missing on the end of it sends you a message that there should be one, it's an Easter egg and you need to go and search for it. You can, you have to go and find it. You know, all these words can fuck us up sometimes in life. And one of the words that I think fucks people up when they're thinking about what you just said is... I think at the start of it you said something like, "I know I wouldn't be as successful."

    21. MFMarie Forleo1:08:12

        Yes.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:12

        Because the d- the definition we're using for success in that case is not happiness. You just we- ended up saying like, "I was way more fulfilled and way more... But I wouldn't make as much money." So if you, if... I'm saying it like, if your, if your definition of success had always been happiness, then... And if that was your guide in your North Star, then of course you'd become a multi-passionate entrepreneur. But if your definition of success, which nobody's is, is just making shitloads of money and ignoring all the sort of branches of expression that we all have and all the interests we have, then of course you would've probably focused on coaching. You might have been a bigger coach, as you said, like you might have been, uh, you know, whatever, not that you, you didn't get there anyway, but... 'Cause you did. But, you know, might have been faster, let's say.

    23. MFMarie Forleo1:08:50

        Yeah. But I think it would... And the, the, my counter to that was this. So all of that experience, like teaching with Nike and also being on camera, like in some weird Targets and, and Walmarts in the States, like there's actual DVDs of me on fitness videos back when there was fi-

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:06

        Hmm.

    25. MFMarie Forleo1:09:06

        Like this.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:07

        (laughs)

    27. MFMarie Forleo1:09:07

        In like... You know what I mean? Bec- but all of that experience set me up to start my own YouTube show-

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:13

        Hmm.

    29. MFMarie Forleo1:09:13

        ... sent me to... And it brought all of these different expressions and influences into my brand that live today that make it very, very different than other people. You know, there's some people that are coaches that are brilliant and they have this beautiful academic background or different things. And for me all, of that flavor (laughs) made its way in.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:35

        Yeah, I notice that too.
20. 1:11:10 – 1:25:55

    Do you feel fake?

    1. MFMarie Forleo1:11:10

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:10

       What are you struggling with?

    3. MFMarie Forleo1:11:12

       Oh. I think right now it's less of a struggle, more of a, this is what I'm playing with and I'm, I'm, I'm excited about getting better at. You know, I'm here to give a beautiful talk in an event. And it's something that I haven't done a lot of, 'cause we've been in COVID and all this stuff, and I can get nervous on stage. I can get really nervous. Like I'm very, very comfortable with cameras and having one-on-one conversations. But I can get super nervous on stage when it's not like my people that have come to see me. So that's something that I've been working on a lot this year.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:43

       What does that mean in a like, uh, a detailed, a detailed practical sentence that you're, that's the thing you're struggling with? Is it wat- so it's an anxiety, a fear, or...?

    5. MFMarie Forleo1:11:51

       Yeah, sometimes... It's, it's about, oh my gosh, you know, people will ask me to come speak on stage, different stages, and, and I've said no so often because I have so many other things that my attention's on. And I'm a person, I, I like to prepare and I like to deliver as much value as I can. I want to take care of a host and their audience. And like putting together, I'm like, "Oh gosh, what's the talk gonna be?" Like I can feel my mind going into a super swirly place, and it's not fun. And it was like, "I need to handle this." I'm like, "I don't need to handle this on my own." You know, everything is figureoutable, but that doesn't mean that I can't ask for help figuring it out. So for me it's, it's about, um, working through the anxiety and the nerves around, okay, well how can I construct the best talk? How long should it be, the delivery, how many stories? Like a lot of kind of technical things. It's, it might sound really silly. I don't know if it does or not, but it's things that like my head just goes like this about. And I'm like, "Okay, I want to get over that."

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:45

       Where does that come from in you?

    7. MFMarie Forleo1:12:46

       I don't know. I think that, um, one of the things I've seen about myself is that when I do something enough times, I get super comfortable with it and then I can be really creative and playful.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:58

       Hmm.

Episode duration: 1:33:53