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Kenneth T. Jackson - Robert Moses, Hero of New York?

I had a fascinating discussion about Robert Moses and The Power Broker with Professor Kenneth T. Jackson. He's the pre-eminent historian on NYC and author of Robert Moses and The Modern City: The Transformation of New York. He answers: - Why are we so much worse at building things today? - Would NYC be like Detroit without the master builder?\ - Does it take a tyrant to stop NIMBY? Episode website + Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/kenneth-jackson Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3DQ0NfV Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3fP1jmg Follow me for updates on future episodes: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp Timestamps: 0:00:00 Preview + Intro 0:11:13 How Moses Gained Power 0:18:22 Moses Saved NYC? 0:27:31 Moses the Startup Founder? 0:32:34 The Case Against Moses Highways 0:50:46 NIMBYism 1:03:06 Is Progress Cyclical 1:11:58 Friendship with Caro 1:20:03 Moses the Longtermist?

Kenneth T. JacksonguestDwarkesh Patelhost
Nov 7, 20221h 33mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Reassessing Robert Moses: Builder, Bully, and Savior of New York

  1. Historian Kenneth T. Jackson argues that Robert Moses, often vilified via Robert Caro’s *The Power Broker*, was the single most important builder in American urban history and a central force in New York’s rise, not its fall.
  2. Jackson credits Moses with creating New York’s core infrastructure—bridges, highways, parks, housing, and major civic complexes—on time and under budget, in an environment where such projects are nearly impossible today.
  3. He contends that many of Caro’s specific claims are factually wrong or incomplete, especially around transit decline and neighborhood destruction, and that Moses largely ‘swam with the tide’ of mid‑century car culture rather than uniquely distorting it.
  4. The conversation contrasts Moses’ top‑down, power‑driven vision with Jane Jacobs’ human‑scale urbanism, and uses that tension to reflect on today’s NIMBYism, historic preservation, and our diminished capacity to build large public works.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Moses’ building program underpinned New York’s global dominance.

Jackson argues that without Moses’ bridges, expressways, parks, housing, and civic complexes, New York likely would have hollowed out like many Midwestern and Northeastern cities, instead of remaining a premier global capital.

Caro’s portrait is powerful but contains many factual and contextual errors.

While praising *The Power Broker* as an extraordinary achievement, Jackson says its details on topics such as the Cross‑Bronx Expressway, public transit decline, and low bridge clearances are often wrong or overstated, in part because Caro focused almost exclusively on Moses’ own papers and ignored national patterns.

Moses embodied a now‑vanished capacity to execute mega‑projects quickly.

He routinely delivered huge works—Whitestone Bridge, Jones Beach, the Triborough network—on time and under budget, using overlapping authorities, bond finance, and sheer will, in a dense, litigious city where similar projects now stall or bloat in cost.

His pursuit of power was personal, but not primarily for enrichment.

Moses worked for a token salary across multiple posts, died with less money than he started with, and used bond‑funding tricks mainly to keep building—not to siphon wealth—distinguishing his ‘corruption’ from more typical graft‑driven machines.

He helped entrench car‑centric urbanism even as New York stayed transit‑rich.

Moses prioritized highways and suburbanization, dismissed old neighborhoods as slums, and rejected rail add‑ons to roads—but Jackson notes that New York still ended up as the nation’s strongest transit city, with far higher relative transit use than anywhere else.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

By any standard, he's the greatest builder in American history. There's nobody really in second place.

Kenneth T. Jackson

Had Robert Moses not lived, not done what he did, New York would have followed the trail of maybe Detroit.

Kenneth T. Jackson

He was ruthless and arrogant and honest.

Kenneth T. Jackson

We’ve gone too far in the ability to obstruct change. We need change… you can't run a city or a country [so] nothing will change.

Kenneth T. Jackson

Moses didn't see people. He saw bridges, he saw highways, he saw tunnels… Jane Jacobs saw what Moses didn't see.

Kenneth T. Jackson

Robert Moses’ scope of influence and major projects in New York and beyondDebate over Robert Caro’s *The Power Broker* and its factual/interpretive flawsHighways, transit, and whether Moses caused or merely reflected car dominanceUrban decline vs. resilience: why New York avoided the fate of Detroit and othersMoses’ methods: power accumulation, authority structures, and lack of scandalJane Jacobs vs. Moses: human-scale neighborhoods vs. monumental infrastructureContemporary building constraints: NIMBYism, historic preservation, and mega‑projects

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