Dwarkesh PodcastKenneth T. Jackson - Robert Moses, Hero of New York?
At a glance
WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT
Reassessing Robert Moses: Builder, Bully, and Savior of New York
- Historian Kenneth T. Jackson argues that Robert Moses, often vilified via Robert Caro’s *The Power Broker*, was the single most important builder in American urban history and a central force in New York’s rise, not its fall.
- Jackson credits Moses with creating New York’s core infrastructure—bridges, highways, parks, housing, and major civic complexes—on time and under budget, in an environment where such projects are nearly impossible today.
- He contends that many of Caro’s specific claims are factually wrong or incomplete, especially around transit decline and neighborhood destruction, and that Moses largely ‘swam with the tide’ of mid‑century car culture rather than uniquely distorting it.
- The conversation contrasts Moses’ top‑down, power‑driven vision with Jane Jacobs’ human‑scale urbanism, and uses that tension to reflect on today’s NIMBYism, historic preservation, and our diminished capacity to build large public works.
IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING
5 ideasMoses’ building program underpinned New York’s global dominance.
Jackson argues that without Moses’ bridges, expressways, parks, housing, and civic complexes, New York likely would have hollowed out like many Midwestern and Northeastern cities, instead of remaining a premier global capital.
Caro’s portrait is powerful but contains many factual and contextual errors.
While praising *The Power Broker* as an extraordinary achievement, Jackson says its details on topics such as the Cross‑Bronx Expressway, public transit decline, and low bridge clearances are often wrong or overstated, in part because Caro focused almost exclusively on Moses’ own papers and ignored national patterns.
Moses embodied a now‑vanished capacity to execute mega‑projects quickly.
He routinely delivered huge works—Whitestone Bridge, Jones Beach, the Triborough network—on time and under budget, using overlapping authorities, bond finance, and sheer will, in a dense, litigious city where similar projects now stall or bloat in cost.
His pursuit of power was personal, but not primarily for enrichment.
Moses worked for a token salary across multiple posts, died with less money than he started with, and used bond‑funding tricks mainly to keep building—not to siphon wealth—distinguishing his ‘corruption’ from more typical graft‑driven machines.
He helped entrench car‑centric urbanism even as New York stayed transit‑rich.
Moses prioritized highways and suburbanization, dismissed old neighborhoods as slums, and rejected rail add‑ons to roads—but Jackson notes that New York still ended up as the nation’s strongest transit city, with far higher relative transit use than anywhere else.
WORDS WORTH SAVING
5 quotesBy any standard, he's the greatest builder in American history. There's nobody really in second place.
— Kenneth T. Jackson
Had Robert Moses not lived, not done what he did, New York would have followed the trail of maybe Detroit.
— Kenneth T. Jackson
He was ruthless and arrogant and honest.
— Kenneth T. Jackson
We’ve gone too far in the ability to obstruct change. We need change… you can't run a city or a country [so] nothing will change.
— Kenneth T. Jackson
Moses didn't see people. He saw bridges, he saw highways, he saw tunnels… Jane Jacobs saw what Moses didn't see.
— Kenneth T. Jackson
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