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Patrick McKenzie — Money laundering, big tech censorship, SBF & Japan

I talked with Patrick McKenzie (known online as patio11) about how a small team he ran over a Discord server got vaccines into Americans' arms: A story of broken incentives, outrageous incompetence, and how a few individuals with high agency saved 1000s of lives. Plus unconstitutional censorship, money laundering, Factorio, and a friendly debate about crypto. Enjoy! 𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒 * Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/patrick-mckenzie * Apple Podcasts: http://apple.co/3RFuS7b/ * Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3APeQ3L * Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp 𝐒𝐏𝐎𝐍𝐒𝐎𝐑𝐒 * This episode is brought to you by Stripe, financial infrastructure for the internet. Millions of companies from Anthropic to Amazon use Stripe to accept payments, automate financial processes and grow their revenue. Go to https://stripe.com/ to learn more. If you’re interested in advertising on the podcast, check out this page: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/advertise 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 00:00:00 – Why hackers on Discord had to save thousands of lives 00:18:09 – How politics crippled common sense vaccine distribution 00:39:02 – Fundraising for VaccinateCA 00:51:52 – Why tech needs to understand how government works 00:59:41 – What is crypto good for? 01:13:50 – How the US government leverages big tech to violate rights 01:25:19 – Can the US have nice things like Japan? 01:27:24 – Financial plumbing & money laundering: a how-not-to guide 01:38:25 – Maximizing your value: why some people negotiate better 01:42:57 – Are young people too busy playing Factorio to found startups? 01:50:11 – Thinking well and finding true rigor 01:58:13 – The need for a post-mortem

Patrick McKenzieguestDwarkesh Patelhost
Jul 23, 20242h 2mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Discord volunteers outperformed governments in America’s chaotic vaccine rollout

  1. Patrick McKenzie recounts how a handful of tech volunteers on Discord created VaccinateCA, an ad‑hoc vaccine‑finder that effectively became the U.S. clearinghouse for COVID vaccine locations, exposing severe failures in public health logistics and software capacity.
  2. He argues that federal, state, and local institutions all dodged responsibility for core software and logistics problems, while political incentives—equity fights, fear of blame, and hostility toward Big Tech—made competent action less likely.
  3. McKenzie and Dwarkesh Patel then broaden the discussion to tech–government relations, big‑tech censorship during COVID, financial plumbing, crypto’s underwhelming real‑world impact, and the mechanics of money laundering and fraud detection.
  4. Across topics, McKenzie emphasizes incentives, institutional decay, and the need for more serious, technically competent engagement between tech, government, and civil society before the next large‑scale crisis.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Crucial public‑health software was built by volunteers because no institution truly owned the responsibility.

VaccinateCA emerged from a late‑night Discord hackathon and ended up powering Google’s “vaccine near me” answers, because federal, state, and local actors all assumed “someone else” would solve the logistics and information problem.

Political incentives warped vaccine rollout priorities away from saving the most lives.

Complex tiering schemes and equity politics in states like California and New York led to byzantine eligibility rules, 57‑page forms for 75‑year‑olds, and threats against pharmacists—resulting in doses thrown away and only ~25% of California’s allocation reaching arms early on.

Fear of political backlash kept big tech from openly solving obvious COVID logistics problems.

After January 6, internal policy and comms teams at major platforms told product and health teams to avoid visibility; companies correctly feared that outperforming government on vaccines would trigger punishment and expanded regulation.

Current AML/KYC regimes have quietly created a financial panopticon with huge hidden costs.

Banks now employ intelligence‑agency‑scale analyst teams to generate reports most of which are never read, effectively turning finance into a policy arm of the state while imposing tens of billions in compliance cost and enabling future large‑scale LLM‑driven surveillance.

Crypto has consumed enormous real resources without commensurate mainstream utility so far.

McKenzie estimates tens to hundreds of billions spent on mining, infra, and talent; aside from niche uses like USDC remittances, he argues the sector has not delivered benefits proportional to its cost and repeatedly sells “you’re still early” narratives.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

California had the most desirable object in the history of the world, and rather than adopting any sensible strategy for getting it into people's arms, was bickering over who should get it first.

Patrick McKenzie

The successful project plan was made by a bunch of rank amateurs at this topic on Discord in the course of a couple of hours. Society should not rely on us as plan A.

Patrick McKenzie

Unfortunately, software is eating the world and delivering competence in the modern world requires being competent at software. The United States federal government has abdicated software as a core responsibility of the government.

Patrick McKenzie

We have an intelligence community‑sized operation running in banks to write memos that no one ever reads.

Patrick McKenzie

We can't simply sit out here and gripe about this on podcasts… The default case is that the ball will be dropped, and goodness, those of us who were involved with VaccinateCA kind of dread what we called the bat signal.

Patrick McKenzie

Creation and impact of VaccinateCA during the COVID vaccine rolloutGovernment software incompetence, misaligned incentives, and pandemic tiering systemsPolitical pressures on Big Tech, censorship, and the Missouri v. Biden caseCrypto’s real economic value versus resource cost and money‑like use casesFinancial plumbing, AML/KYC surveillance, and practical money laundering dynamicsTech culture, career incentives, and personal agency (negotiation, distraction, video games)Lessons for future crises: state capacity, postmortems, and tech–government collaboration

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