Skip to content
Dwarkesh PodcastDwarkesh Podcast

Tyler Cowen — Hayek, Keynes, & Smith on AI, animal spirits, anarchy, & growth

It was a great pleasure speaking with Tyler Cowen for the 3rd time. We discussed how Hayek, Keynes, Smith, and other great economists help us make sense of AI, growth, risk, human nature, anarchy, central planning, and much more. The topics covered in this episode are too many to summarize. Hope you enjoy! 𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒 * Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/tyler-cowen-3 * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tyler-cowen-hayek-keynes-smith-on-ai-animal-spirits/id1516093381?i=1000643676389 * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7cpOpwBCzIEsjcSxu7IeQQ?si=8CjC-T0GQayMvYWXtSkqXA * Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 00:00:00 - John Maynard Keynes 00:17:16 - Controversy 00:25:02 - Friedrich von Hayek 00:47:41 - John Stuart Mill 00:52:41 - Adam Smith 00:58:31 - Coase, Schelling, & George 01:08:07 - Anarchy 01:13:16 - Cheap WMDs 01:23:18 - Technocracy & political philosophy 01:34:16 - AI & Scaling

Dwarkesh PatelhostTyler Cowenguest
Jan 31, 20241h 42mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Tyler Cowen Ranks the GOAT Economists, Markets, AI, and Anarchy

  1. Tyler Cowen discusses his book GOAT, using Keynes, Hayek, Smith, Mill and others to probe how great economists thought about investment, risk, markets, and institutions.
  2. With Dwarkesh Patel, he revisits classic ideas—animal spirits, central planning, decentralization, prediction markets, NIMBYism—and applies them to modern finance, AI, and state capacity.
  3. Cowen argues that risk-taking is highly context-dependent, markets are powerful but imperfect discovery processes, and that both economic history and internet-era writing now carry big-picture thinking.
  4. He is moderately optimistic about AI’s economic impact, wary of geopolitical and technological X‑risk, and skeptical that either anarchism or pure technocracy can bypass deep constraints of decentralization and institutions.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Risk preferences are context-dependent, not simply risk-averse or risk-seeking.

Drawing on Friedman and Savage, Cowen argues that people both buy insurance and gamble; they manage moods and contexts, so Keynes’s ‘animal spirits’ and standard risk aversion each capture only part of human behavior.

Most entrepreneurial investment has skewed returns; a few win big while many overinvest.

Echoing Smith and Keynes, Cowen notes small business owners are often over-optimistic and barely break even, while a small share of innovators and entrenched VCs capture outsized gains and create large positive externalities.

Passive investing is not inherently dangerous as long as margins remain contestable.

Cowen is more worried about a few giant asset managers inducing implicit collusion across firms than about under-monitoring; overconfident active traders may privately overtrade but socially help price discovery.

The financial sector looks less bloated when measured against wealth, not GDP.

Finance in the U.S. is roughly 2% of wealth over time; as wealth-to-GDP rises, finance’s share of GDP rises mechanically, which Cowen argues is not automatically sinister if management costs per dollar of assets stay modest.

Markets are discovery processes that survive by ‘getting to tomorrow,’ not solving full equilibrium.

Cowen leans on Hayek to say neither markets nor planners compute global general equilibria; they muddle through with partial signals, selection (bankrupting bad firms), and local improvements that sustain progress.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Risk aversion or risk-loving behavior, it doesn’t really exist. Almost everyone is context dependent.

Tyler Cowen

Scientism is great. It can be abused, but we all rely on scientism.

Tyler Cowen

The firm is the market. The firm is always making contracts, and the market is subject to market checks and balances.

Tyler Cowen

The market’s not solving for a general equilibrium. It’s just solving for something that gets us into the next day.

Tyler Cowen

The next me won’t be like me. In that sense, I’m the last. But I don’t think it will disappear.

Tyler Cowen

Keynes on investment, animal spirits, and market speculationHayek on decentralization, knowledge, markets, and socialismSmith, Mill, and the evolution of economic growth and moral progressRisk-taking, innovation, overconfidence, and the social vs. private returns to entrepreneurshipAI agents, prediction markets, and Hayekian emergent order in digital economiesAnarchy, collusion, and the role of institutions like firms, states, and central banksThe current state and future of economics as a discipline and of ‘internet-writing’ intellectuals

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome