A Funny Take on Millennial Parenting with Ilana Glazer

1. 0:00 – 0:08

   Intro

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:08 – 1:12

   Mutual admiration, receiving compliments, and “two things can be true”

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:08

      Hi, Ilana.

   2. IGIlana Glazer0:09

      Hi, Dr. Becky, also known as Rebecca Kennedy.

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:13

      [laughs]

   4. IGIlana Glazer0:13

      I'm obsessed. [laughs] I'm so grateful. I'm so excited. This is, um, this is way more, like, street cred, celeb currency to my best friends than other celebrities who are famous for whatever.

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:31

      Aw.

   6. IGIlana Glazer0:31

      I'm thrilled.

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:32

      Well-

   8. IGIlana Glazer0:32

      Not about the currency, but my own personal love for you and your work.

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:34

      Two things can be true.

   10. IGIlana Glazer0:35

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:36

       [laughs] Be thrilled for both.

   12. IGIlana Glazer0:37

       That's right. Yeah.

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:38

       [laughs]

   14. IGIlana Glazer0:38

       Well, I'm so excited. You're so smart, and you make me proud to be a p- a millennial parent, you know?

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:47

       Aw. Well, that is like the nicest thing someone's ever said to me, so thank you. I will take that in. I feel like I've gotten better at that. I used to be like, "Oh, no. No, no, no," and then it's like, no, that feels good. And this work is so hard, so we all need some affirmation [laughs] to keep going.

   16. IGIlana Glazer1:01

       That's so from our, like, teen years in the early 2000s. Somebody gives you a compliment and you're like, "No."

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:06

       Right?

   18. IGIlana Glazer1:07

       It's like, no?

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:08

       Right.

   20. IGIlana Glazer1:08

       It's their truth about you, you know? It's like not even, ugh.

3. 1:12 – 2:12

   Good Inside: reclaiming inner resources beneath layers of conditioning

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:12

      For me, eh, this whole thing, I really mean this, I really believe that everyone has all the ingredients they need inside them.

   2. IGIlana Glazer1:20

      Mm.

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:20

      That we have those resources. We've all built up layers, and probably especially us women, so many layers to kind of block access to-

   4. IGIlana Glazer1:28

      Mm. Mm

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:28

      ... our power, our strength, our desire, what we want-

   6. IGIlana Glazer1:31

      Yeah

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:31

      ... the ability to tolerate doing things even when other people are inconvenienced. Again, no baby's ever born saying, like, "Oh, I want more milk, but my mom's gonna be upset-"

   8. IGIlana Glazer1:40

      Mm

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:40

      ... "so I'm not gonna cry." [laughs]

   10. IGIlana Glazer1:41

       Yeah.

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:41

       Like, we obviously all have that within us. And so one of the reasons I think I initially was like, "No, no, no," is 'cause I'm like, wait, this is not... I really mean this. I don't think I insert knowledge into someone. I'm like, we all need a guide to just get back to that. But I know in my life, when I have found books or people who've really touched me and been part of my journey and been a guide for me, that's still really, really significant-

   12. IGIlana Glazer2:06

       Mm

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:07

       ... you know, to feel like there's something that really speaks to something within you.

   14. IGIlana Glazer2:10

       Mm-hmm.

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:10

       I'm so honored to meet you.

   16. IGIlana Glazer2:12

       Mm.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:12

       Thank you.

4. 2:12 – 5:02

   Millennial parenting: therapy culture, accountability, and separateness from kids

   1. IGIlana Glazer2:12

      Thanks so much. It's like, what you're making me think of right now is, um, [smacks lips] actually goes back to what I was saying about being proud to be a millennial parent because I think, uh, millennials are kind of the first generation to be so, um, [smacks lips] not casually therapized, but, like, it's not a shameful thing anymore. And I think when, when a lot of us were getting into it in our 20s, it was like a big deal, and now it's, like, either a thing that we did that really helped or it's just not, it's just, there's not as much of a stigma in seeking out, uh, help with your mental health.

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:43

      Yeah.

   3. IGIlana Glazer2:44

      And I think that, or I like to believe that millennials have, um, the most formed sense of accountability emotionally, where, like, we know that it's our thing. In fact, even complimenting you, that's my thing because I need you to be the person that you are for me on Instagram. And I guess I [laughs] also am hoping you like me.

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:10

      [laughs]

   5. IGIlana Glazer3:11

      So I'm like, "I really like you," you know what I mean? But I'm like, uh, the- these are my things as well. Like, it doesn't even, um, it doesn't necessarily mean that you, um, that I expect you to be the person that I think you are or something. It's like more of an offering, and I think that we... I like to believe that millennials are imparting this accountability and separateness from their children-

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:33

      Mm

   7. IGIlana Glazer3:33

      ... more than any generation before.

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:35

      Say more about that.

   9. IGIlana Glazer3:37

      You know, this, like, sort of, like, gentle parenting and, and, you know, there's, like, sort of branding, but it's like, gentle parenting. You mean parenting?

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:45

       [laughs]

   11. IGIlana Glazer3:45

       It's been so harsh. It's been so harsh that, you know, it's supposed to be gentle. And what's harsh is, like, the societal structure around this cosmically magical experience we should all be free to and supported in enjoying as much as we possibly can.

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:04

       Mm-hmm.

   13. IGIlana Glazer4:04

       I just think that, um, the accountability for, like, ugh, those were my feelings. You know what I mean?

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:10

       [laughs]

   15. IGIlana Glazer4:10

       And, like, my kid, you said something that my husband and I repeat all the time is, like, "She's not giving me a hard time. She's having a hard time."

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:16

       Yeah.

   17. IGIlana Glazer4:17

       And while that phrase really helped me and helped us and helps us consistently, I think that you gave words to a sense that our generation is having-

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:27

       Yeah

   19. IGIlana Glazer4:27

       ... more than before.

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:29

       Yeah.

   21. IGIlana Glazer4:29

       You know, in the '90s, it's like, "Knock it off."

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:32

       [laughs]

   23. IGIlana Glazer4:32

       You know what I mean? And it's like, "Shut up back there," or whatever. And it's like, no, in fact, that parent is having a hard time. I now look back on-

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:39

       Right

   25. IGIlana Glazer4:39

       ... you know, those, like, 30-year-olds, like, struggling to raise their two or three kids in the isolated suburbs of wherever.

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:46

       Uh-huh.

   27. IGIlana Glazer4:46

       Um, but, you know, as a kid, n- not that my parents were like that, but that was the parenting culture-

   28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:53

       Mm-hmm

   29. IGIlana Glazer4:53

       ... in the '90s and 2000s when I was a kid growing up on Long Island, and it was like, "These people, like, think we work for them." You know what I mean? And like-

5. 5:02 – 8:06

   Harsh discipline as ‘vomiting frustration’: why punishments feel powerful but are actually soft

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:02

      Yeah. Well, what it's making me think is yes, that classic harsh parenting that I do think has been at least American parenting for, like, a very long time.

   2. IGIlana Glazer5:10

      Ugh, ugh.

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:10

      Right? You, your kid acts out, and you're like, "S- go to your room," or, "You can't talk to me that way," and you kind of just... I often think you just get to vomit your own frustration onto your kid in the moment and call it discipline.

   4. IGIlana Glazer5:23

      Mm, mm, mm.

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:23

      I don't know. That's all it really is. Like, I don't wanna feel the hard thing I'm feeling this moment, so I'm just gonna kind of make you feel that way instead. And we call it kind of discipline or keeping your kids in line, although i- it's just, that would never be tolerated anymore, at least in, like, the workplace. I don't even think sports coaches really coach that way if they're trying to optimize, you know, an athlete's [laughs] performance. Um, and when I'm asked-

   6. IGIlana Glazer5:49

      [laughs]

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:50

      ... often, like, "Dr. Becky at Good Inside, it seems like you guys don't really do punishments," which by the way, I'm always like, well, of course I naturally scream at them sometimes. It's just so natural- [laughs]

   8. IGIlana Glazer5:57

      Oh, thank you

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:57

      ... to come out with them.

   10. IGIlana Glazer5:58

       Thanks for saying that.

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:58

       But it, I, I never think it's effective.

   12. IGIlana Glazer6:01

       Right.

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:01

       And someone will say, "Well, is that soft?" And, and in line with what you're saying, I'm like, you know what's soft, like really soft? Your kid is tantruming, and that is enough to put you into a tizzy and say things that you don't even intend to follow up on, and lose it in front of your child. Right? Where, you know, recently I was talking to a parent who was like, "Ugh, my kid says like, 'You're the worst dad.'" And I'm like, "It's insane. I can't let him get away with that." And he was a sports person. I was like, "Imagine LeBron James being with a kid, and the kid's like, 'You're the worst basketball player.' And LeBron's like, 'Sorry, Becky, I cannot let that kid get away with that. You cannot say that to me."

   14. IGIlana Glazer6:41

       Right.

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:42

       And you're like, whoa, LeBron. [laughs]

   16. IGIlana Glazer6:43

       Wow, right.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:43

       Okay.

   18. IGIlana Glazer6:44

       Yeah.

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:44

       Like, is your self-esteem-

   20. IGIlana Glazer6:46

       Right

   21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:46

       ... that fragile?

   22. IGIlana Glazer6:47

       Right.

   23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:48

       Just move on.

   24. IGIlana Glazer6:49

       Yeah.

   25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:50

       Right?

   26. IGIlana Glazer6:50

       Yeah.

   27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:50

       And I think anyone would say that's, that's, that's, like, pathetic.

   28. IGIlana Glazer6:54

       [laughs]

   29. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:55

       They would. Like-

   30. IGIlana Glazer6:55

       Yes
6. 8:06 – 10:48

   Training in sticker charts and ‘extinguishing’ behavior—and why that language alarms

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:06

      Right? No, that's not what it means. Um, and I think it feels, it, it, it feels right. [laughs] I mean, that's what happened for me. I was trained to teach every parent how to do punishments and timeouts and sticker charts and-

   2. IGIlana Glazer8:19

      You were trained?

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:20

      Yes, as a psychologist.

   4. IGIlana Glazer8:22

      To do punishments and sticker charts?

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:24

      Yes.

   6. IGIlana Glazer8:25

      Oh, oh, oh, ew.

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:25

      I know.

   8. IGIlana Glazer8:26

      Ew.

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:27

      And, and I, and I have to admit... I'm sorry, I always think admit can be upgraded to share.

   10. IGIlana Glazer8:31

       Ugh.

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:32

       Admit is shame.

   12. IGIlana Glazer8:33

       I'm, uh, couples therapy, I'm like, "I'm finding myself admitting all these things," but share is, that's a nice swap.

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:37

       It can always be swapped. So I'm gonna share that I was in this program, it was after my PhD where I said I wanna work with parents. I'm getting a lot of referrals from parents. And I think at the time I just thought, well, I should get more education. I always like learning, so let me go to the place that teaches people like me as a psychologist how to work with parents with their kids. And it was very esteemed. Everyone's like, "Oh my goodness, you got into this place, this program." And it was how to deliver timeouts, sticker charts, ignoring, praise, and essentially, I remember, I remember being very excited.

   14. IGIlana Glazer9:10

       Ignoring.

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:10

       That's the share. That's the sharing. I, I was very excited, 'cause I think the left part of our brain really lights up. It's so linear and logical.

   16. IGIlana Glazer9:19

       Mm, mm.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:19

       That you're like, "Amazing, I'm gonna reward the good to get more of the good. I'm gonna..." And this was the word, they said, "Extinguish-

   18. IGIlana Glazer9:27

       Oh

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:27

       ... the bad to get less of the bad." And you never wondered, well, like, how are we raising humans that we... No one ever talked about that. [laughs]

   20. IGIlana Glazer9:32

       Right. Extinguish, I'm like gagging-

   21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:34

       Right?

   22. IGIlana Glazer9:34

       ... on that word.

   23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:35

       Eh.

   24. IGIlana Glazer9:36

       I know.

   25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:37

       Why are you gagging on that word?

   26. IGIlana Glazer9:39

       It's literally reminding me of learning about the Holocaust in Hebrew school. Scary. Because honestly, these systems, like, do ex- extinguish parts of our humanity, and, like, do extend to these violent structures we live among, beside, within, and it, th- that, like, that systemic, um, dehumanizing, this is, the, these, these parenting tactics that we've been taught for so long are an extension of that. Um, [laughs] so it's just-

   27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:09

       Yeah

   28. IGIlana Glazer10:09

       ... like, putting a very fine point on it for me. Because it, it, it does not, um... This is a system that, and a curriculum that, a curriculum in your literal specific sense, but also, like, I started, in my, like, stand-up special I talk about, you know, developing early, and I started babysitting at nine years old. And, you know, even at that point, this curriculum about childcare that we've learned for so long is really dehumanizing. And, um, it is aiming to make our children our employees, and it's sad. It makes me sad.

7. 10:48 – 12:47

   Kids learn from patterns: identity, mirroring, and the harm of being seen as ‘bad’

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:48

      Uh, I, I think the word dehumanizing just really sticks, that I just think about in my worst moments as an adult, like in my worst moments, the idea that someone is treating me kind of in a way that's consistent with seeing me as that worst moment, like I just must be that person-

   2. IGIlana Glazer11:06

      Mm

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:07

      ... right, is so spiraling. Like, in your worst moments, you definitely don't need someone to s- throw you a party. That's, you know, [laughs] that one, "Oh, I love you when you're like this." But you need someone, and it's gonna sound cheesy, who can set a boundary and stop you from self-destructing 'cause you're not in a good place or making good decisions. You need someone to see the good inside you when you can't feel it for yourself.

   4. IGIlana Glazer11:27

      Mm.

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:27

      You need it. Like, we're relational beings. We all operate with people in some degree, definitely our kids, we're, we're their mirrors. We reflect back to them who they are, and that's how they form their identity, and then their identity dictates their behaviors going forward. And so when they hit, and we're like, and by the way, all the words, [laughs] you'll appreciate this, someone saying, "You're always so good at, like, acting out what parents shouldn't say." I'm like, I'm not really, like, acting it out.

   6. IGIlana Glazer11:50

      Mm-hmm. [laughs]

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:51

      I'm just reliving the things I've said-

   8. IGIlana Glazer11:53

      Uh-huh

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:53

      ... to my children. [laughs]

   10. IGIlana Glazer11:54

       [laughs]

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:54

       Like, I'm not an actress. Um, "What's wrong with you? Go to your room. Your sister would never do this," right? Or it co- "You're, you're like a sociopath. You don't even care about anyone." Okay, so there's that moment, but kids don't learn from moments. They learn from themes and patterns. And what a kid takes in isn't, "Wait, I think my parent just means that I can't hit and I just have to manage my anger." They d- it's way too nuance- nuanced. They just think- M- m- like, the person I care about the most who kind of knows who I am, they're my parent, they're my safest, most important adult, is looking at me like I'm an evil, awful, dehumanized-

   12. IGIlana Glazer12:28

       Mm

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:28

       ... person.

   14. IGIlana Glazer12:29

       Mm, mm.

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:29

       And if that happens over and over, kids, kids believe the way we look at them.

   16. IGIlana Glazer12:36

       Yeah.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:37

       [laughs]

   18. IGIlana Glazer12:37

       Yeah. The, the admission you were making when you shared about, uh, getting into this special program was that you were excited about-

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:45

       Yes

   20. IGIlana Glazer12:45

       ... this curriculum, yeah.

8. 12:47 – 14:24

   Why parents cling to punishments: confusion, craving clarity, and building a better system

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:47

      I was. I mean, I just, when I was doing it, you know what? We l- I think, maybe I'm just talking about me, I like things that are nuanced, but there's still this part of my brain that likes things to be-

   2. IGIlana Glazer12:57

      Totally

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:57

      ... very linear and clear.

   4. IGIlana Glazer12:59

      Clear.

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:59

      And if I have this input, I will get this output. And I think the reason parents like timeouts and punishments and sticker charts is 'cause I think the worst part of parenting is when you just don't understand your kid.

   6. IGIlana Glazer13:10

      Mm.

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy13:11

      You think the worst part of parenting is when your kids act out and they have annoying behaviors. I don't enjoy that particularly. Having said that, the thing about those situations that spiral us isn't the behavior, it's not understanding it and being really confused. And I think in those moments of confusion, if you have something that gives you something crisp and clear-

   8. IGIlana Glazer13:30

      Mm-hmm

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy13:30

      ... and concrete-

   10. IGIlana Glazer13:31

       Mm-hmm

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy13:31

       ... even if it doesn't make sense, even if you don't believe in it, even if it feels bad, I feel like us humans, we really like clarity.

   12. IGIlana Glazer13:39

       Mm-hmm.

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy13:39

       And so I think it's compelling. Oh, I just, I know how to give a time out. You have a two-minute timeout for hitting your sister. You're not gonna get your sticker. And then all of a sudden I'm like, "Oh, my God, now they have a tantrum that they're not getting their sticker" [laughs] . But at least I feel like I know what to do. And I think through my own journey, what I realize is, wait, okay, parents need to know what to do. We all do. Nobody tells us what to do. The world tells us it should come naturally.

   14. IGIlana Glazer14:02

       Mm.

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy14:03

       I believe the only thing that comes naturally is how you were parented, which is often not the thing we wanna repeat. And so what if there was a system that just felt better [laughs] and more right and almost more healing, but was equally as clear and concrete? I mean, that's, that's how, that's how this whole thing got started.

   16. IGIlana Glazer14:17

       Mm.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy14:18

       Well-

   18. IGIlana Glazer14:18

       Um, how did you, like, raise your consciousness out of sticker charts?

9. 14:24 – 17:34

   The turning point: “I don’t believe what I’m telling you” and reverse-engineering from adult therapy

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy14:24

      I mean, the truth of it was I delivered that method to parents for a little while in my private practice. I did.

   2. IGIlana Glazer14:33

      I get it.

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy14:34

      And then I had, uh, I, I had my first around the same time. I mean, I wasn't doing a ton of parenting work before I had my son. I feel like once I did, I was like, "Oh, wow, this is so hard. I wanna do more [laughs] of this work." Um, and, and really it was the course of these months where I would, like, be sharing with people what to do, and e- every couple sessions something shifted. At first it was like, "This is amazing," and I, "and I have clarity and I can tell them." And then maybe in a couple weeks it was like, there's this, like, weird feeling, it's only like 5%, that's like, "I don't know about this." [laughs]

   4. IGIlana Glazer15:02

      Mm, mm.

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:02

      And then that was, like, 10%, and then truly the thing became so loud in me.

   6. IGIlana Glazer15:08

      Mm, mm.

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:09

      I, I don't know if you've heard me say this before. It really in some ways was like this watershed moment where I said to these parents, "I'm sorry, I don't believe anything I'm telling you."

   8. IGIlana Glazer15:16

      Ooh, ooh.

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:17

      Really. [laughs]

   10. IGIlana Glazer15:17

       Wow.

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:18

       And when I look back on that moment, it feels, the reason it feels important is 'cause I actually didn't know what to tell them instead, and I said that to them. I remember being like, "I'm gonna do some thinking." [laughs]

   12. IGIlana Glazer15:28

       Holy shit.

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:29

       And they were like, "Can we have our money back?"

   14. IGIlana Glazer15:31

       [laughs]

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:31

       [laughs] I was like, "Definitely."

   16. IGIlana Glazer15:33

       Yeah.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:33

       "Please just don't write me a bad, like, Yelp review or something."

   18. IGIlana Glazer15:35

       Yeah, yeah. Wow.

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:35

       Um, but to me, that moment of I know something is wrong, and I can know that before I know what is right-

   20. IGIlana Glazer15:44

       Uh-huh, uh-huh, right

   21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:45

       ... I feel like kind of informed everything experimental that almost came next. Um-

   22. IGIlana Glazer15:52

       You, like, experimented, 'cause I'm like what then, how did you build this new, whatever, curriculum or practice-

   23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:56

       Yeah

   24. IGIlana Glazer15:57

       ... through, like, experimenting?

   25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:59

       Kind of. I think the thing that struck me and why it felt so wrong is I'd have, like, my, my days were very long in private practice. And I'd say, okay, parents of a three-year-old, couples therapy, um, individual adult, individual adult, individual adult, teenager after school, another parenting session. So I'd have all these different kind of things, where it was like parenting versus a teen versus couples versus adults.

   26. IGIlana Glazer16:20

       Wow.

   27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:21

       And I think the thing that felt bad was everything I know helps teens, couples, and adults change the way they see the world and live more of the life they wanna live is at theoretical opposition with what I'm telling parents to do.

   28. IGIlana Glazer16:33

       Mm, mm.

   29. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:34

       Right? Like, we've talked about therapy being in therapy. When you struggle [laughs] your therapist doesn't say to you, "Give me your phone. I'm taking your phone for a week."

   30. IGIlana Glazer16:40

       Right.
10. 17:34 – 20:17

    Humor + real-life sleep struggle: timeouts vs ‘pauses’ and Ilana’s 5am bath reset

    1. IGIlana Glazer17:34

       Two things I wanna say.

    2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:35

       Okay.

    3. IGIlana Glazer17:36

       Two and a half. The first is I want listeners and viewers to know that our feet aren't touching the ground.

    4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:41

       It's really true. It's, it's an important-

    5. IGIlana Glazer17:43

       You're, you're, like, pretending that your left foot is. It's not. Our feet are swinging.

    6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:48

       [sighs]

    7. IGIlana Glazer17:48

       Okay. We're short people. Second thing I wanna say, when you talked about a timeout, is, um, you know, it's like the timeout is this, uh, outside-in version of, like, pausing, which is the same kinda vibe, but, like, from the inside out. Like, one does need a pause.

    8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:06

       Yes.

    9. IGIlana Glazer18:06

       But to be, like, imprisoned in that moment is, like, so dehumanizing, you know? Truly.

    10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:13

        [sighs]

    11. IGIlana Glazer18:13

        And it's like, you don't get access to me, [laughs] your biggest source of care and provision. You go away from me. And it's like, yeah, of course, I... Can I curse? Of course, I want a fucking break, too. But it's also, like, let's take a break from this. Let's take a beat. We always say beat. Let's take a beat. Um, oh my God. And then the other thing about clarity is, like, uh, I shared with you before this session that I don't feel like diving into it here, and I'm sorry. Um, but we're having, like, some sleep troubles [laughs] that have been, like, so persistently painful for such a long time that I'm mired in [laughs] an entanglement of feelings that I can't start to detangle here. Um, but after the session, I do need your help badly. Um, but clarity, I was just thinking, uh, yesterday morning [laughs] you talked about doing a, like, placeholder name. Should I call my child Bert? [laughs]

    12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:08

        [laughs] D- does that feel right?

    13. IGIlana Glazer19:11

        [laughs] Honestly, she loves Bert on Sesame Street.

    14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:13

        Okay.

    15. IGIlana Glazer19:13

        She loves Bert and Oscar, which I'm like, "You are empathetic."

    16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:17

        I know.

    17. IGIlana Glazer19:17

        You care for, for-

    18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:18

        So many parts

    19. IGIlana Glazer19:19

        ... I love it, like-

    20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:20

        Love it

    21. IGIlana Glazer19:20

        ... caring for these sour characters and boring characters, I love it.

    22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:23

        [laughs]

    23. IGIlana Glazer19:23

        [laughs] So my beautiful daughter, Bert, [laughs] couldn't-

    24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:28

        Sorry

    25. IGIlana Glazer19:28

        ... couldn't, um, could not go back to sleep. And while it didn't work, one thing I did was, um, I was like, "Let's take a bath" at, like, 5:00 in the morning. I was like, "You wanna take a bath?" Just the change in element from air to water, I was like, that's a clarity from the inside out from, like, a human place-

    26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:47

        Yeah

    27. IGIlana Glazer19:48

        ... that I'm, in fact, sh- proud to share here rather than the, um, inconsistent and, uh, challenged ways I've been dealing with her s- sleep struggles.

    28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:56

        Oh.

    29. IGIlana Glazer19:56

        But I am, like, happy to share here, like, let's just, like, sit in water and, like, pour water over your head, and it really did calm her down and clarify things, actually. It's like, I don't know. She was all buzzy and wired and knew it was weird to be up. So then the bath is just, like, a type of clarity that I think is more human anyway.

11. 20:17 – 23:13

    Sleep deprivation as primal trigger: Dr. Becky’s candid regrets and the fear of ‘making it forever’

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:17

       Yeah. Uh, uh, I have so many different thoughts. Number one, sleep with one of my kids is definitely the area that I feel like I made some of my worst parenting decisions in, that I feel-

    2. IGIlana Glazer20:27

       Thank you.

    3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:27

       Yeah.

    4. IGIlana Glazer20:27

       Oh my God, I'm, like, verklempt. Thank you.

    5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:29

       I mean, but sleep, it's so primal. Honestly, when I talk to parents, and I'm like, "Just tell me all the things," 'cause it's never that clean. They're like, "Yeah, it's the tantrums. It's the rudeness. It's the hitting. It's the sibling stuff. It's the sleep." I actually always say th- let's start with sleep first.

    6. IGIlana Glazer20:43

       Mm-hmm.

    7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:43

       Because when your kid's sleep is disrupted, and your sleep is disrupted, nobody has any large percentage of what they would need to even manage the other things well. It's so basic, right? I mean-

    8. IGIlana Glazer20:55

       [sighs]

    9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:55

       ... one of the things you do to torture people is deprive them-

    10. IGIlana Glazer20:57

        That's right

    11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:57

        ... of sleep. So it, it's so important. And so to me, that's always-

    12. IGIlana Glazer21:02

        Yeah

    13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:02

        ... the starting point. Um, and when you're not sleeping, you... I- it's just... I remember with one of my kids, it's so triggering. You f- you do feel like your kid is giving you a hard time.

    14. IGIlana Glazer21:13

        Yeah. [laughs]

    15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:13

        You really do.

    16. IGIlana Glazer21:15

        Oh my G- oh.

    17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:16

        Even being like, "But were they having..." Yeah, they were having a hard time, but it really didn't feel like that. Because you're like, "I want to be doing the opposite of what I'm doing now. I want to be not talking to you and not interacting with you at all because I would be sleeping in my bed." [laughs] And so regulating yourself, and so we act from that place of powerlessness and helplessness. And I'm happy to share here. I mean, one of my kids, because, and this is such a big lesson for me. I don't even know if I've talked about this, but I was so scared of letting her into my room for a period of time. And I think this, like, fast-forward error, oh, she's never gonna leave, and, you know, and now I look-

    18. IGIlana Glazer21:51

        Oh my God, I know

    19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:52

        ... right? And so-

    20. IGIlana Glazer21:52

        Oh, or fast-forward of, like, well, I better enjoy it because one day it'll never happen again.

    21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:56

        Right, either way.

    22. IGIlana Glazer21:57

        Oh my God, yeah, yeah.

    23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:58

        And so for a period of time, she slept on the wood floor outside of our bedroom. And she's also so resolute and strong that I remember her saying, when we then were like, "Wait a second. Maybe we should just come into our room." But I think whatever it was, the injury, she's like, "I'm a, I'm a wood person."

    24. IGIlana Glazer22:16

        Ooh.

    25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:17

        "Not a bed person."

    26. IGIlana Glazer22:18

        Wow.

    27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:19

        And if I could go back and give myself advice, it would be like, "She's going through a hard time." It was when I had my third. That shakes up a kid's world. And she n- she, she needed something that she wouldn't always need. And it's okay to give into that, and that's not permissive, and it's not forever. And maybe I give her that for a little bit, and then maybe weeks or months later, I'd be like, "You know what? We're, we're shifting away because something has changed." But-

    28. IGIlana Glazer22:38

        Mm-hmm

    29. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:38

        ... I was scared to do that.

    30. IGIlana Glazer22:39

        Mm-hmm.
12. 23:13 – 30:06

    Boundaries from the inside out: therapy containers, old circuits, and separation heartbreak

    1. IGIlana Glazer23:13

       And I'm just like, [sighs] I'm at a lost point right now, but I feel you. It's so, it's so weird, you know? And the other thing, like, about, like, boundaries, it's like we have so many outside in dehumanizing boundaries, um, enforced upon us non-consensually in this world. And it's, like, kind of hard to know what a real human boundary from the inside out is.

    2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:34

       Mm.

    3. IGIlana Glazer23:34

       I was sharing with you that I'm in analysis, so it's, like, high-frequency therapy three times a week, 45 minutes on the diz. At 45 minutes, we out.

    4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:43

       [laughs]

    5. IGIlana Glazer23:43

       Rebecca Kennedy, it's done.

    6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:45

       It is.

    7. IGIlana Glazer23:45

       And it has, like, enforced boundaries on me where I'm like, oh. At first, I was like, "He hates me."

    8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:49

       [laughs]

    9. IGIlana Glazer23:50

       "He fucking hates me." [laughs] And-

    10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:52

        We his favorite patient.

    11. IGIlana Glazer23:53

        Yep, and then-

    12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:54

        Always wanna know, like, "Am I your favorite patient?"

    13. IGIlana Glazer23:56

        Right, right.

    14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:56

        Right?

    15. IGIlana Glazer23:56

        And then, um, I've actually just learned, like, oh, [sighs] my doctor needs these boundaries in order to care. And I talked about it with him. I was like, "Feel like you hate me," you know, and we, like, talked through it, where it's like you need, he needs these boundaries to care for me and his other patients, you know, and whatever. Like, I've learned, um, the feeling of receiving boundaries and thus-

    16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:20

        Mm

    17. IGIlana Glazer24:20

        ... how to enact them from the inside out myself through this-

    18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:23

        Mm

    19. IGIlana Glazer24:24

        ... uh, psychoanalytic practice I've been in for five years, more than any other, I don't know- Learning boundaries before or like never learning them early on. And, um, yeah, it's just, it's really hard. It's really hard to hold a boundary. It's, it's hard to know, you know, talking about like letting a kid in bed or not, it's just like kinda hard to know in parenting, and there's such a high volume of like intense, immediate needs, high frequency, you know? Um, it's kinda hard to sort it out when you also have a job and, and, uh, like-

    20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:58

        Mm

    21. IGIlana Glazer24:58

        ... house to clean and, um-

    22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:59

        And stuff from your past that comes up to deal with.

    23. IGIlana Glazer25:02

        Yeah.

    24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy25:02

        That's right. I mean, I, I wanna double click on boundaries, 'cause this is... Like, boundaries are my love language, and I think, I think it's, of all the different kind of journeys I feel like I've experienced with parents, like learning what boundaries really are, what they're not, learning how to set them and hold them, right? Learning what to expect from others in response to your boundaries, right? Not so secret secret, nobody likes when you hold boundaries, like just 'cause we all have reactions to not getting our own needs met. Um, I do feel like it's so critical in parenting. And going back to our own past, so many of us growing up, I know for me this is true, too, so much of how we formed our identity and our worth was kind of like looking out, noticing what people wanted of us, being good-

    25. IGIlana Glazer25:46

        That's right

    26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy25:47

        ... for other people, which is kind of the opposite of boundaries. And so I don't think any of us become moms and think, "I'm gonna have a hard time when my kid's upset with me." We're like, "No, they're my kid." That's, it, like logically you're like, "They're gonna be upset with me." But it activates something so much older than-

    27. IGIlana Glazer26:03

        Mm

    28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy26:03

        ... you know, anything about parenting. What is it like for me to be grounded in what I want even if other people don't want that of me? What is it like for me to get what I want while knowing it inconveniences someone else?

    29. IGIlana Glazer26:17

        Mm.

    30. BKDr. Becky Kennedy26:17

        Like, these are such old circuits that get activated in such big ways.
13. 30:06 – 33:08

    Connection vs efficiency at bedtime: the ‘last voice they hear’ and kids needing extra dose

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:06

       I know one of the things I struggle with is I do feel like efficiency and relationship building are opposites. Uh, 'cause I think at night, one of the things-

    2. IGIlana Glazer30:16

       Oof

    3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:16

       ... right, that comes up, is you're like, "I gotta get my kid down." And then, and part of it, not part of it, all of it, that makes sense. For me, there's like this many minutes that I could sit on a couch.

    4. IGIlana Glazer30:25

       Three kids, I, I-

    5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:26

       Well, especially as my kid gets older, I remember one of my friends saying this to me when their kids were a lot older, and it struck me as surprising, even though it's crazy. They're like, "When your kids get older, they stay up later and you don't like get those hours back." I was like, "What?" [laughs] Never considered that. They stay up until 10:00. It's not like they go to school at 9:00 the next day. Like, they, th- you just have, they just occupy more hours.

    6. IGIlana Glazer30:49

       I think about it all the time. Anyway, go on.

    7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:51

       Right?

    8. IGIlana Glazer30:51

       Go on.

    9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:51

       And so at night, you know, and I think especially with one of my kids who is just more oriented towards separation, that's all sleep is. It's separation. We always think so much about how kids separate at school, and their routines, and how we make them comfortable. That's when they're with students and a teacher in a room in the light with toys. At night, they're alone in the dark [laughs] without anyone, and they do it for longer than they do during the day. So by the way, I believe kids can learn to sleep independently from a place of capability and resilience and all the good things. So it's not a reason to say kids c- can't sleep independently, but it's important to understand why they delay with a million stickers. And a couple days ago, I was talking to my two younger kids and I said to them, "I want you to each tell me one thing that'll be, like, part of my New Year's resolutions. One thing that you really want me to do differently-

    10. IGIlana Glazer31:41

        Ooh

    11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy31:42

        ... to be a better parent."

    12. IGIlana Glazer31:43

        Wow, true strength.

    13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy31:44

        I, because I was like, they, they have good feedback, right? That's what we do. But that's what you do in work, 360-degree feedback, right? We take in all input. And my daughter said to me, "Okay. Mom, I know I always have to do one more thing at night." And she just goes, "That's just how I am. I'm always gonna have to do one more thing, and I hate that you say to me, 'Come on, let's go. Uh, you've gotta get to bed.'"

    14. IGIlana Glazer32:07

        [laughs]

    15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:07

        And, and she goes, "And that's the last voice I hear before I go to sleep."

    16. IGIlana Glazer32:10

        Oh, my goodness. Ooh.

    17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:13

        I was like, "Ah."

    18. IGIlana Glazer32:14

        This child has a full palette, all the colors of emotions that she's able to, like, process and communicate to you. It's incredible.

    19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:23

        Tot- and she's got my number.

    20. IGIlana Glazer32:25

        Yeah, that is the last-

    21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:25

        'Cause I think at night-

    22. IGIlana Glazer32:26

        ... voice I hear

    23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:27

        ... kids need a little bit extra connection, and I know as an adult, I'm going for a little bit extra efficiency.

    24. IGIlana Glazer32:34

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:34

        [laughs] Can we just shorten this, you know?

    26. IGIlana Glazer32:37

        Right.

    27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:37

        And it's only been a couple days since she said that, but I have, I have, uh, I did really take it in. I think one of the things that helps me be less efficient, it's just, "Becky, this is, like, exactly what I should be doing. I have to get hyperbolic. There's nothing more important than this right now. I'm not in such a rush." Like, I don't know what I'm rushing to do, but it always feels like a rush. And, like, kind of my relationship, that connection with her, she needs an extra dose to separate, right? Um, and it has been more pleasant, but it's been, it's been

14. 33:08 – 40:19

    Supermom pressure, asking for help, and redefining boundaries as self-owned action

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:08

       challenging. Talk to me a little bit about your journey when you became a mom around these things that feel not conducive with how we grew up, boundaries, whatever, whatever self-care means to you, how you balance being a caregiver. You have so much love for your daughter. You also have love for yourself, when those things feel conflictual, when they don't.

    2. IGIlana Glazer33:28

       Um, the boundaries thing really comes to, c- goes back to psychoanalysis for me because this is like a, you know, like, I, [laughs] it's just been a really helpful practice. I'm an analytic person. My relationship with my husband is analytic, and we're getting to a point where we're, where it's, like, a little too much.

    3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:49

       [laughs]

    4. IGIlana Glazer33:50

       We, we, [laughs] we were, like, in a, [laughs] in a pattern of, like, analyzing ourselves before one another-

    5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:55

       [laughs]

    6. IGIlana Glazer33:55

       ... analyzing each other.

    7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:56

       [laughs]

    8. IGIlana Glazer33:56

       And it's like, we got it. We've been together 12 and a half years. We get it.

    9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:01

       Yeah.

    10. IGIlana Glazer34:01

        We get the vibe, the pattern, where it comes from. Think we got it. Um, I literally am like, can we just talk about T-shirts?

    11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:07

        Uh-huh. Just, like, move on.

    12. IGIlana Glazer34:07

        Like, the best soft T-shirt, like, the one that moves the best. I just wanna get, like, granular with stupid shit, please. 'Cause we're also not, like, huge TV and movie film watchers.

    13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:19

        Hmm.

    14. IGIlana Glazer34:19

        Like, we're, um, we literally talk and talk. So, um, [laughs] so it really is with my, in my analytic practice-

    15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:29

        Mm-hmm

    16. IGIlana Glazer34:30

        ... that I have been, like, yeah, just, like, re-parented myself, re-partnered myself-

    17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:36

        Yeah

    18. IGIlana Glazer34:37

        ... um, in a way that's super helpful. And, like, I'm, like, reaching this understanding also with my sleep troubles. I, like, drew a boundary the other day. I was like, "I literally can't do this. I can't do this anymore."

    19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:48

        Mm-hmm.

    20. IGIlana Glazer34:48

        "I'm exhausted. It is mentally damaging. [laughs] My brain is a cotton candy."

    21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:56

        Yep.

    22. IGIlana Glazer34:56

        "And I can't do this anymore." So I actually, I struggle with boundaries.

    23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:00

        Yeah.

    24. IGIlana Glazer35:01

        I want to be supermom. I want to be supermom.

    25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:05

        What does that mean?

    26. IGIlana Glazer35:06

        [sighs] Um, like, for over a year, I've been, like, getting up every single night a- and I'm exhausted, and I have a, not full-time job, I have, like, a career.

    27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:20

        Wow.

    28. IGIlana Glazer35:20

        And I've been on tour. I did a 52, uh, show tour, which is this, I filmed a stand-up special, Human Magic, for Hulu. That's o- streaming on Hulu right now. I put out a movie, Babes, also on Hulu. Hulu's, uh, got my number.

    29. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:37

        [laughs]

    30. IGIlana Glazer35:37

        Um, and I'm like, how have I not... I, I haven't asked for help. And, um-
15. 40:19 – 42:12

    ‘Good girl’ conditioning, millennial realism, and closing reflections

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:19

       But it's so counter... Yes, especially what us as little girls, 'cause you said you are a good girl. I would, too. I put good in quotes 'cause all that means is you don't have desires for yourself.

    2. IGIlana Glazer40:29

       Yep.

    3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:29

       You don't set boundaries.

    4. IGIlana Glazer40:30

       Yep.

    5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:31

       You never think about what you need in a relationship.

    6. IGIlana Glazer40:34

       Right.

    7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:34

       You're defining it outside in.

    8. IGIlana Glazer40:36

       Check.

    9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:37

       Right. And then we call that-

    10. IGIlana Glazer40:38

        Be that

    11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:38

        ... being a good girl.

    12. IGIlana Glazer40:39

        Yeah. Yeah, no.

    13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:39

        It's messed up.

    14. IGIlana Glazer40:40

        Yeah.

    15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:41

        Right? We're all unwanted.

    16. IGIlana Glazer40:41

        And it's actually, like, um, not even what femininity is. You know what I mean? As a sort of strong, um, consuming force [laughs] of femininity. It's like that's not even what that is. That's, like, some- something else.

    17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:56

        [laughs]

    18. IGIlana Glazer40:56

        It's, it's some, like, bizarre part that has been written, and we just are handed a script in so many ways. Um-

    19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy41:05

        Yeah.

    20. IGIlana Glazer41:05

        But I, I really, like, love the re- the redefining, the, the, you know, additional angle of defining, um, what a boundary is-

    21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy41:13

        Yeah

    22. IGIlana Glazer41:13

        ... because it kind of goes back to what I'm saying about millennial parenting and how I feel like millennials... Like, there's just a sort of common sense in how forcing other people to be who you want them to be doesn't make sense anymore at many levels, at a parenting level, at a, like, governmental, national level. Like, it just, large groups, it just doesn't make sense to... It, it's not gonna work to say, "I hate the way you are, and you need to change." It doesn't, it doesn't work, you know? And the only thing you can define, I'm finding the mainstream millennial discourse to understand, is that the only thing you can, um, control is your own boundaries.

    23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy42:00

        Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah.

    24. IGIlana Glazer42:04

        Thanks for having me. Woof.

    25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy42:05

        This was awesome. Many more. Cheers.

    26. IGIlana Glazer42:08

        Thank you.

    27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy42:09

        Next time with a stool so our feet can reach. [laughs]

    28. IGIlana Glazer42:11

        [laughs] Footstools?

Episode duration: 42:14