Beyond Winning: Sanya Richards-Ross and Dr. Becky

1. 0:00 – 1:31

   Why sports mindset fascinates Dr. Becky (and what this series will explore)

   1. BEDr. Becky0:00

      I don't know if you know this about me, but I am very into sports. When I was growing up, I was a competitive gymnast, and I was on a competitive soccer team, and I was pretty intense about it. I was really driven, which sometimes worked for me, and in other stages actually worked a little bit against me, or at least my own mental health in the moments. My family today is also super into sports. My kids play sports, and we just watch a lot of sports, and we get really into it. And sometimes I step back, and I think, "What is this phenomenon?" I have such an emotional reaction to people I don't even know. What is going on? I love learning more about competitive athletes, what their early years were like, what shaped them, what motivates them, how they think about performance differently than other people. Anyway, my interest, my curiosity about sports is actually what led to this series. This is The Playbook, a limited series by Good Inside in partnership with Nike. I'm going to be talking to some of the most successful athletes of our time, leaders who have had real impact in their sport, and I'm gonna be talking with them about their highs, about their lows, about their mindset, about team dynamics, about what really motivates them, about the way they talk to themselves and recover from difficult stages. And I also have some of my favorite moments with these athletes,

2. 1:31 – 2:38

   Meeting Sanya Richards-Ross: looking beyond medals to inner strength

   1. BEDr. Becky1:31

      where we talk about their life off the field, their early years, their family life, the things that keep them grounded, their rituals and superstitions that keep them going. We cover so much in every conversation. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. We'll be back right after this. Today, I'm sitting down with someone whose story I cannot wait to explore, Sanya Richards-Ross. You know her. She's a four-time Olympic gold medalist. She's also won a bronze medal. She has five Olympic medals. She's one of the greatest 400-meter runners of our time. From the outside, people see Sanya Richards-Ross, the ferocious competitor, laser-focused, in control of her craft, such a winner. They see her power, her confidence. They see a champion who rose again and again. That's all true, and today I wanna look on the inside, the mental strength and the inner work that shaped Sanya long before the medals and long after the medals. Hi, Sanya.

   2. SRSanya Richards-Ross2:36

      Hi, Dr. Becky. [laughs]

3. 2:38 – 4:42

   Early life in Jamaica: joy, community, and Olympic dreams starting at age nine

   1. BEDr. Becky2:38

      I often like to start by actually rewinding. So maybe we can jump in. Uh, just when you think about your early years, growing up in Jamaica, getting into competitive racing, probably lots of things in your early years besides that, just tell me a little bit more about that. What comes to mind?

   2. SRSanya Richards-Ross2:57

      Man, you know, that, that's a really good question. It's so funny because sometimes I feel so far removed from that life. It feels like I've had two lives, and so it's nice to sometime reflect on that. But when I think about my early years, um, I just think, I mean, they were just wonderful. [laughs] They were wonderful. I had amazing, and still have, amazing parents. Uh, we grew up, like, middle upper class in Jamaica. We used to go to the beach every weekend.

   3. BEDr. Becky3:22

      Mm.

   4. SRSanya Richards-Ross3:22

      Everything was just so good, and I remember, you know, just kinda that pureness of finding sports and loving track and field so much and wanting to be great, and my parents just doing everything that they could to help me live my dreams. So in Jamaica, track and field is the most popular sport. So I remember as early as I can remember, four, three, four, five, the country literally shutting down to watch the Olympics and watching Merlene Ottey and some of those great athletes, you know, have the kind of success and the admiration from the country, and I was like, "I wanna do that. I wa- I wanna be an Olympic champion." And so when I was seven years old, I, we had a fun day at school where you race and you do all these things, and I beat all the boys. And the c- the head coach for the track team was like, "Okay, you're joining the track team," and, you know, just started from there. And I remember, Dr. Becky, my dad, as early as probably 9, 10, 11, 12, telling me, "You're gonna be the best in the world. You're gonna be the best in the world one day." And when I was nine, I, I wrote for my class assignment when they asked, "What do you wanna be when you grow up?" I said I'd be an Olympic champion, when I was nine years old. So it started really early. You know, of course it was very fun for me. I, I wouldn't say that it became, you know, this huge goal for my life until I was really 16. I started to really, like, lock in and do all the right things, but as early as nine, I, I had dreams of being an Olympic champion.

4. 4:42 – 7:09

   Intrinsic drive vs. parent-driven pressure: letting the child lead

   1. BEDr. Becky4:42

      When you were in that nine-year-old-ish range, I, I'm just always curious. Was it one of your parents who's like, "Sanya, come on. We're gonna, we're gonna do some running now"? Was, were you more like, "Mom or Dad, I'm going out to run"? Like, the, the motivation, was it always intrinsic? Did it start from someone else, and then it transferred to you? How did it work when you were young?

   2. SRSanya Richards-Ross5:01

      That's a great question. It was intrinsic. I remember my parents telling me I would get up... Like, if we had a track meet that weekend, I would be up at 5, 6:00, already dressed by the bedside. Like, "It's time." My mom would be like, "San, it's too early. The track meet's not until 4 or 5." And so I remember as early as I can remember wanting to run, wanting to win, wanting to be the best. Um, and then I think my parents nurtured that, and that's, that's something that I, I feel like is, you know, something that we don't talk about a lot and how, you know, that balance of when you have a, an individual who desires to be great, how do you foster that? And I think my parents did a really good job. My, my mom and dad always let me lead, right? So they followed my lead. Like, when I was like, when it was just fun for me, they didn't make me ever feel like there was a ton of pressure on me. It was always just like... And then at 16 when I was like, "Okay, Dad, I really wanna be great," my dad was ready to go, equipped with all the things that we needed to do that. So I would say it was intrinsic, and I just always had this burning desire to be great, and my parents just always met me where I was.

   3. BEDr. Becky6:02

      That, that's, uh, it's such a powerful model. Um- I don't know if you see it around you now, but sometimes it's hard to differentiate how much does the kid want this-

   4. SRSanya Richards-Ross6:13

      Yeah

   5. BEDr. Becky6:13

      ... how much does the parent want this for-

   6. SRSanya Richards-Ross6:15

      Yeah

   7. BEDr. Becky6:16

      ... the kid? Who's living-

   8. SRSanya Richards-Ross6:17

      Yeah

   9. BEDr. Becky6:17

      ... whose dreams?

   10. SRSanya Richards-Ross6:18

       Right.

   11. BEDr. Becky6:18

       I don't know if you notice that-

   12. SRSanya Richards-Ross6:19

       Yes

   13. BEDr. Becky6:19

       ... just in families around you now. But it sounds like it was pretty clear for you, this is my dream. This is my motivation. I'm the one getting up. I wanna do this. And then the other, the other thing you said that I think's really important too is your parents supported that. Like, they nurtured that, but it, but it came from you.

   14. SRSanya Richards-Ross6:36

       100%, 100%. My parents did everything that I asked them to do, supported me in every way, but it certainly was my dream. This wasn't something that my dad had hoped for me before I wanted it for myself, and that's something that I'm really, is really important to me now as a mom. With my, with our children, we have four, uh, three boys, and I want them to lead. Like, whatever they're excited about, whatever they love, we're gonna support them, but we're certainly not gonna plant any unrealized dreams of ours, you know, into them.

   15. BEDr. Becky7:02

       Yeah, I mean, you have a lot of realized dreams.

   16. SRSanya Richards-Ross7:04

       [laughs]

   17. BEDr. Becky7:04

       The rest of us have a lot of unrealized, I just wanna point out.

   18. SRSanya Richards-Ross7:08

       Well, thank you. [laughs]

5. 7:09 – 8:33

   Moving to South Florida at 12: opportunity, transition, and building a new path

   1. BEDr. Becky7:09

      I think I read, but tell me if this is right, 'cause you said 16, but age 12, you moved.

   2. SRSanya Richards-Ross7:14

      Yes.

   3. BEDr. Becky7:14

      Is that right? Okay, tell me about that. So you were 12 and you left Jamaica.

   4. SRSanya Richards-Ross7:19

      So my, um, my entire family, most of my family was still living in Jamaica at the time. So my mom is one of six, and so she, there are two boys and four girls, and the majority of her family, and my dad comes from a small family, uh, his mom, Jamaican, his older sister, everyone was still in Jamaica. And so, uh, around 12, or maybe around, around 10, my mom's eldest sister migrated to the States. Her mom migrated to the States. And so they kept saying to her, "Look, if you're gonna make the move, you wanna do it now while the kids are still young, so they'll have a chance to get into a good university," and just kind of that, you know, living that dream. Like, you want your kids to have a better life, more opportunities. And so my parents for two years kind of thought about, okay, what would this move look like? Where would we move to? And so when we were 12, when I was 12, my sister was 11, my mom and dad decided to move to South Florida. Uh, one of her sisters were there. Uh, we traveled there a lot, and she felt like it was kind of the easiest transition from Jamaica to Miami, Fort Lauderdale area. Kind of, you know, the same kind of weather, the same kind of vibe. And so yeah, my parents basically moved for us to be able to have greater opportunities. Um, and so I went to middle school for one year, and then I went to high school for four years in South Florida, and then got a scholarship to the University of Texas.

6. 8:33 – 10:05

   Learning to handle losses: feeling the pain, then turning it into a plan

   1. BEDr. Becky8:33

      A- and before we move past those early years, wh- what was racing like? What was winning like? Performance like? How did you handle that, and what, how did that all play out for you when you were younger?

   2. SRSanya Richards-Ross8:43

      I, um, I certainly learned my, uh, drive and desire to be successful early, because I used to love to win so much. And my dad, whenever I did lose, you know, my dad... I would cry, and my dad would be like, "That's okay. That's okay. You, you sh- it should matter to you that things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to." And I, I, I would have that moment to be able to be in my feelings, to cry, and then he'd say, "Okay, what are we gonna do better tomorrow? How are you gonna improve on this so that you don't have to have this feeling again?" And so it definitely helped me to be able to deal with disappointments, but also to get back up on the horse and to try again.

   3. BEDr. Becky9:18

      And do you remember at those ages, you'd lose something, okay, you'd feel your feelings, like, what would you say to yourself? Did, did you spiral? Was it kind of like short window, be upset, back, back at it tomorrow? Like, what was, what was your process, even when you were younger?

   4. SRSanya Richards-Ross9:34

      I feel like the people around you can really help to shape, you know, because you are young. You, you don't know how to deal with those emotions. And so I was never that kid that spiraled out because things weren't going my way. I was like, "Okay, it didn't work out. I feel, I'm sad about it now, but tomorrow I get a chance to try it again."

   5. BEDr. Becky9:50

      Wh- where was the feeling greater, like the joy of winning or, or the hatred of losing for you?

   6. SRSanya Richards-Ross9:55

      The hatred of losing. [laughs] For sure. Um, I enjoyed winning a lot, but I think I hated losing more, and that was my drive to always work really hard.

7. 10:05 – 13:38

   “Gazing in” vs. “gazing out”: competing against your own standard (and the parenting parallel)

   1. BEDr. Becky10:05

      So, so speaking of that actually, the person in kinda the next lane, I know you've said before that your biggest competition has never really been the woman in the other lane. It's kind of the expectations you hold for yourself. And what I'd love to hear from you about is I, I have this concept I think a lot about with parents, with kids, is how much we gaze out and how much we gaze in, and, and both matter. If you're only gazing in, you gotta pay attention to the world, but a lot of, a lot of women, and I think a lot of young girls, are almost trained to, whether in sports or elsewhere, gaze out to the point that they don't gaze in. What matters to me? What do I care about? And you, you seem to have from a young age, like it's never about the other person, saying like, "I am someone who gazes in for my expectations, at least before I gaze out." So t- yeah, tell me a little bit about that.

   2. SRSanya Richards-Ross10:55

      Yeah, I think for me, I have that really good habit from sports of saying, "Okay, when I start to feel like I'm getting too distracted by looking at other people," I then zone back in to no, like how am I performing against the, you know, bar- barometer of success I've placed on myself? Um, and especially as a mom, I've gi- given myself a whole lot more grace these days. [laughs] Um, but yeah, it was something that I was very intentional about.

   3. BEDr. Becky11:19

      But look, it does kind of remind me. It, it's interesting, I was just in a live event, I was saying this, but it feels like a parallel. Like, as soon as, as a mom, we're judging our good parenting by, say, whether or not our kid had a tantrum when we held a boundary, I, I always say I'm, I'm like giving away all my power. My kid's gonna do what they're gonna do, but do I know my job? Do I feel proud of how I showed up? And if I c- if I do, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna hold this boundary," because let's say I don't want my kid to watch another show, and maybe they have a tantrum, but that, that's kind of on them. Do I know how to hold the boundary? Do I show up in a way I'm proud of? And can I find a win based on gazing in, totally separate from my kid's behavior? It, it doesn't seem that far from, like am I focusing on what I need to do in the lane versus what she's doing in the lane over there?

   4. SRSanya Richards-Ross12:09

      No, that's a, that's an amazing parallel to motherhood. Um, and I love finding that because I feel like I s- worked so hard, uh, in sports, and so it's like whenever I can draw that into my new life as a mom, I just think that's such a great way to, to analyze it. And I think we do as moms put a lot of, "Oh, am I doing a good job?" Based on our kids' reactions or actions. And it, you know, it's really true. Like, it's really, am I showing up? Am I doing my best? And that's really where sometimes the wins are. So I, I love that.

   5. BEDr. Becky12:37

      There is a world where you are doing your best, let's say on your baseball team, and another kid moves up the batting order above you. Like, it, it, it, they can both be true. And how you handle that moment, first of all, if you're a competitive kid, you're gonna be upset. But it's very protective to be able to say, "Okay, like, what did I do over the summer? I feel proud of my work. I know I'm working on my swing. Look, the kid next to me," whatever it is, "He, she grew at a faster rate. Like, wow, I'm impressed, too. And for right now, this is where it's at, but I, I did work hard, and I am proud of myself, even if that other kid is batting, you know, more home runs." And i- that's, that prevents someone, instead of something feeling hard, like, if you don't have that, you're gonna spiral based on someone else, right? So to be able to find your win in sports, in parenting, separate from someone else's behavior to me is such a mental health protector.

   6. SRSanya Richards-Ross13:36

      Yes. [laughs] Yes.

   7. BEDr. Becky13:37

      Right?

   8. SRSanya Richards-Ross13:37

      No, I love that. Absolutely.

8. 13:38 – 17:13

   2008 Olympic heartbreak: favored for gold, finishing third, and the shock of a one-minute outcome

   1. BEDr. Becky13:38

      You have had, right, some kind of heartbreaking moments in sports and racing, right? That-

   2. SRSanya Richards-Ross13:45

      Yes

   3. BEDr. Becky13:45

      ... you know, the races where things didn't go the way you wanted to, injury that changed everything. And I know you've spoken about in some ways, like, we learn more from those moments probably over time, maybe not at that moment.

   4. SRSanya Richards-Ross13:58

      Oh, I did. [laughs]

   5. BEDr. Becky13:58

      Yeah, well, what have you learned from some of, like, the ... Can, can you tell me about one of ... a hard moment that comes to mind or a hard result and how it felt in the moment, and then maybe over time, what, what you got from it?

   6. SRSanya Richards-Ross14:09

      No, yeah. I mean, one of my, uh, toughest, toughest moments in sports came in, in 2008 when I was favored to win gold in the Olympics. Um, I had been, from 2020, from twen- from 2006 to '08, I was undefeated. I had been running really well, world number one, broke the American record, was just on track to just ... It was just, like, felt like it was meant to be. And also, too, I mean, you know, I had worked really hard, you know, especially in 2008 with the Olympics being that season. It's just natural that you just up everything. I was eating right, resting, just doing all the things to, to win this Olympic gold medal. And so when it didn't happen for me on that night and I finished third, I, I felt like the world was gonna come to an end, like, literally. It was, uh, it was the most devastating, heartbreaking experience I had had in my life up until that point. Um, because other thing, too, Dr. Becky, is the minute you cross that finish line, you know you have to wait four more years if-

   7. BEDr. Becky15:07

      Ugh

   8. SRSanya Richards-Ross15:07

      ... you get the opportunity to be there again, 'cause most athletes only make one Olympics in their, you know, sporting lifetime, and this was my second Olympics. So it was really, really, really, really crushing, um, to have done all that work to get to that point and to only lose that race. So I ran 20 races that season. That was the only race I lost was the Olympic final. Like, I felt like I just wanted to go inside of the track and, like, just go down, like, just where, you know, 'cause I just felt like ... Like, I felt my body was failing. Like, I was literally like, I felt like I was gonna have a heart attack. Um, and then as I w- like, so I was bawling, crying. I was really, really disappointed. And I remember we, on, at that Olympic night, they gave us our medals that same night. Sometimes you get them the next day. And so they, you know, they, all, everything's happening so fast. I'm devastated. My heart feels like, uh, I feel like I can't breathe. Like, I'm having all these thoughts like, oh, my God, did this just happen? You know, so it's just a lot of things happening, Dr. Becky, all at once that made it extremely crushing. Um, yeah.

   9. BEDr. Becky16:05

      I really thank you for being willing to put words to that. I think the interesting thing is, like, the, there's no universality to being in the Olympics. That's, like, a very select group of people, but the feeling of, like, something that I assumed kind of would happen and I worked hard for and I wanted, all of a sudden in a moment there's, like, this disbelief of it not happening, and the loss and the-

   10. SRSanya Richards-Ross16:28

       In less than a minute, Dr. Becky. In less than a, the race was less than a minute.

   11. BEDr. Becky16:31

       In less than a minute. In less than a minute.

   12. SRSanya Richards-Ross16:32

       That hope and dream that you had your whole life just gone in a minute. It's, it's, it's, it is really, and I'm getting emotional now thinking about it because it's, like, so hard to describe that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you think you, from I was nine years old, I'm like, "This is my moment. This is my time." Like, I beat all these girls all year. It's like, why didn't it happen, you know?

   13. BEDr. Becky16:52

       So here you are now. You've survived it, which is sometimes the best we can say about hard things, and what did, what did that, looking back? It doesn't take away the pain. I think sometimes, um, we think, like, the growth takes away the pain, or they, they just can both be true. So yeah, what, what, what have you taken from that, or what did it do to you or do for you?

9. 17:13 – 20:37

   The comeback race: “I won’t allow you” and showing up for the 4x400 relay

   1. SRSanya Richards-Ross17:13

      Yeah. So you know, it, so there were, there are a bunch of lessons, but there was one that was, like, in the moment, or, uh, I call it in the moment 'cause it's the same Olympics a couple of days later, and then there's of course what happened beyond that. But I think for me, what the best thing that happened to me was obviously my whole family, everybody knew how, especially how important it was to me, so they all gave me that night to, like, cry and kinda mourn that, you know, lost opportunity moment. And I remember the next morning, um, my coach, uh, he, uh, he ... Of course, I saw my coach after, but we didn't exchange a lot of words 'cause he knew, you know? So the next day I was, I, we had the relay. So at, at the Olympics you do your individual events first. A couple of days later is the 4x400 relay. So I compete in the 400, the 4x400 relay. So I told my coach, I said, "I'm not running. I can't even picture myself getting back on the track. Like, there's just no way." Like, my, the commentator, Ato Boldon, who is now my colleague, actually said this was the biggest upset of the games. Like, that's how much people had thought for sure I was gonna win it. And so, um, so my coach says to me, he says, "No, you, you're, I, I'm not gonna allow you to do that." He said, "You've worked too hard. You're gonna leave here with a gold medal." And I remember so I- thank God I had two days off, right? So I had the first day of, like, not get out of bed, the second day of going back to my coach and him saying to me, "No, I'm not gonna allow you to do that. Um, you're gonna get out there, and you're gonna win an Olympic gold medal." I run the anchor for Team USA, and most of the times, we get the baton in front. Like, I've always kind of run like a victory lap almost because our team is so dominant, and we just, you know, are crushing it by the time I get the stick. And so this time, uh, in 2008, we actually get the stick behind Russia, right? So I get the stick. I am, um, behind the Russians, [smacks lips] and, you know, it's gonna take everything I've got to pull out this gold medal. And so already, of course, I'm, I'm very emotionally drained from all that I've gone through. Of course, I'm physically fit 'cause I have been training, you know, forever for this. And so I remember, you know, pacing myself behind her, pacing myself behind her, and with the final, uh, 100 meters to go, I think, "Okay, I'm gonna just, I'm gonna pass her. I feel like I got it." So I go out, and I don't pass her as quickly as I thought I would, and so I had to dig eve- I mean, I'm talking about from my pinky toe. [laughs] I'm like, "We gotta muster up, you know, what it's gonna take." And so in about the last 10 or 15 meters, I overtake her, and I win gold for my team. And, you know, I think for me, the lesson I learned in that moment that I think has helped me through my entire life is we can overcome massive disappointment and still show up for ourselves, um, and show up for what God has for us, you know? Because I could have missed out on that opportunity. I could have stayed, and my team might have won silver. Um, and, you know, that moment would have happened. But the fact that the people around me, not just my coach, my mom, my da- everybody said, "No, we're not gonna allow you to give up on yourself," it allowed me to have that moment that I think is the wa- was, for me, [smacks lips] kind of the turning point in my career. The very next year I won Worlds, and then I went on to win my Olympic gold medal in London in the individual. So I think that moment there of showing up in the face of all, I mean, all the things that was happening internally, externally, to still show up, go out there, and have that level of success, it just proved to me that I can, I could do anything. You know, I could show up under any circumstance and be great.

   2. BEDr. Becky20:32

      I mean, proof of struggle isn't dangerous 'cause it feels-

   3. SRSanya Richards-Ross20:36

      Yeah

   4. BEDr. Becky20:36

      ... right?

   5. SRSanya Richards-Ross20:37

      Yeah.

10. 20:37 – 24:04

    Leadership, capability, and why struggle stories resonate more than perfect wins

    1. BEDr. Becky20:37

       So, so there's two things I wanna, I, I wanna add on here. First of all, when I heard your language with what your coach said, right? Like, "I'm not gonna allow you to miss this. I'm not..." Right? It's interesting because to me there's a direct parallel to what our kids need from us all the time, and I do think it's the thing that modern parenting is missing. I know at Good Inside, it's like a core principle to see your kid as capable, right? And so, and to set them up to see that themselves, and we have to see our kid as capable so many times before they can access that feeling in themselves. And we can't collude with their assumption that they can't handle something because if your coach did, that's like, it, in the moment, maybe it's temporary relief, but it's the worst feeling. And so just the other day, I was talking to a friend, and it's different but so similar, where their kid lost a starting spot on their soccer team, very competitive, and was like, "I'm not gonna practice today. I can't. Like, it's always the starting team. I'm gonna walk out, and I'm gonna be like, 'Wait, that's not even me.' I'm gonna be one of the kids watching from the sideline. I've never not started before." My friend called me. We talked through it, and I said, "What you're gonna say is, 'You're going to that practice. I'll drive you, okay?'" But, [scoffs] in my lan- "But I won't let you [scoffs] take away an opportunity to see you are capable of dealing with this. It's gonna feel awful. It's gonna feel embarrassing. It's gonna be the worst practice of your soccer career. I'm in agreement with all of that. But to watch yourself just survive that, I will not let you take away that moment because for the rest of your life, soccer aside, you're gonna have people get promoted before you do. You're gonna have someone get married and get a big house, and you ca- Whatever it is. You're gonna have people get things. You're gonna be disappointed, and I will not let you in this state make this type of decision for yourself." And, and, and that's what we coached around, and it was, it was, it was from a place of love and belief and capability, which is sound like exactly what your coach did, and kind of saying, "You're not in a place, Sanya, to make this decision for yourself. I know you. Like, you're not in the best place to do that, and so I am going to set you up."

    2. SRSanya Richards-Ross22:54

       Yeah.

    3. BEDr. Becky22:54

       "And, and I believe in you," and, like, I just had the chills thinking-

    4. SRSanya Richards-Ross22:58

       Yeah, me too

    5. BEDr. Becky22:58

       ... thinking about that.

    6. SRSanya Richards-Ross23:00

       Yeah, when you repeat it, it gave me chills, and my coach, uh, just passed away about a month ago.

    7. BEDr. Becky23:04

       Ugh.

    8. SRSanya Richards-Ross23:04

       And so just, yeah, he was such an honorable and amazing man. And it also taught me too that [smacks lips] the people around me didn't care about the medals. Like, this, it was so much mo- deeper and so much more beautiful, and, you know, it was about just me. It was about my self-development. It was about me striving for my goals and just always showing up, doing my best. And so, yeah, I'm so grateful that he said those words to me. "I, I will not allow you, you know, to miss this opportunity." And it, like I said, when people look, like, more people remember that race than even my individual London gold medal, um, because it re- it resonates, right? Like, we all fall down. Like, we all fail, and, you know, to get back up and do something great, I think that, you know, that, that made the, my story, I think, more relatable than just the win, win, win, win, win. Like, most people don't have that experience. Like we, you know, it's, it's a win. It, we fail forward, you know, all those things, so it was beautiful.

    9. BEDr. Becky23:58

       I have to say, you're much more likable just from- [laughs]

    10. SRSanya Richards-Ross24:04

        Yeah.

11. 24:04 – 26:23

    Miscarriage and motherhood: grief, self-blame questions, and finding joy again

    1. BEDr. Becky24:04

       Uh, uh, so the other thing that came up as you were talking about, "I worked so hard and so hard and so long, and then it's gone in, like, a second," the, honestly, the thing that resonated so deeply in my body is something I know I hear from parents all the time as a parallel Which is interesting for me because I know this is something that's happened to you too, is, is miscarriage.

    2. SRSanya Richards-Ross24:30

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    3. BEDr. Becky24:32

       Is as soon as we get pregnant, it's like we have the date, we have the life, we imagine the thing, we're planning for the season. I, I'm gonna become a parent. A- and then it's just, it, it's so powerful that you use language that I hear from people all the time, like i- in an instant that was gone. Like, in an instant that was gone. Like, I've kind of also wanted my whole life this and, you know, or many months and then it's gone. And so, a- and I know that's, that's a part of your, your parent journey as well.

    4. SRSanya Richards-Ross25:01

       Yeah. You know, um, that was... And that was, uh, I, I, I, I have a community called Mommy Nation, and so I'm around, like, you know, like we talk about all the things. We're in community, and I have heard so many other moms talk about their experiences with mis- miscarriage, but until you experience it for yourself, you don't realize just h- really how gut-wrenching, heartbreaking it is. Because it's true, I think the minute you start to accept that you're, you know, you're a mom and you're, like it's happening and you're like excited about it and you, you know, start to think of the name and the room and the, and then it's just gone. There's this like, you know, strange dichotomy of like, "Did I do something wrong? Is something wrong with my, my body too? Was it meant to be?" Like, all of these thoughts of like, why did this happen? Yeah, miscarriage, you know, it, it, it's certainly different, right, than losing an Olympic gold medal. It, I, I think it, it cuts a little bit deeper because it's family, it's, you know-

    5. BEDr. Becky25:57

       Of course

    6. SRSanya Richards-Ross25:58

       ... it's those things.

    7. BEDr. Becky25:58

       Yeah.

    8. SRSanya Richards-Ross25:58

       And so, yeah, it was really, really, really hard. Um, it was a really hard life experience, but a couple months later we got pregnant again and I became a mom of two beaut- I mean, I, my second son is just... They're all amazing. So it's, you know, it's like once again that four-by-four Olympic final, right? I had the bad and then I get the good again, so thank God for that balance of, of, in life. But yeah, it was, it was really tough to experience that.

12. 26:23 – 28:16

    Parenting identity and family pride: from ‘one and done’ to a family of five

    1. BEDr. Becky26:23

       What, what are you d- you speak about your kids with such joy.

    2. SRSanya Richards-Ross26:26

       Yes.

    3. BEDr. Becky26:26

       Like, what, um, yeah, what are, what are you proudest of in your family, in your, in your parenting when you think about your kids?

    4. SRSanya Richards-Ross26:32

       Oh, man. You know, I, first of all I gotta say, you know, for, you know, all the mommies listening that I thought I was one and done. Like, really, Dr. Becky, I was like, "I am one and done." And I wasn't like, it was like the door in my mind was closed. I, I felt like I just, there were so many things in my life that I still wanted to do and I, I didn't want to cheat my, my family. Like, I wanted to be pre- And I knew after having my son, like, this is a full-time, you know, commitment, [laughs] and I just don't want to like compound it, you know? And so for a long time I wasn't in the s- the, the, the, the s- the head space to have more kids. And so I'm really grateful that my husband is the kind of man that allowed me to like, you know, go through my own growth and decide when it was right, you know? And so when we finally decided to go for our second, you know, s- uh, baby, um, and we had the miscarriage and then we actually had Asani. I don't know, I just feel like you're, you feel like sometimes your heart, you, you don't have room or you're, you know, where... And it's like your heart just grows. You just end up with all this capacity to just love these little humans, and so that makes me happy. And my third son is like, my third son understood the assignment, Dr. Becky.

    5. BEDr. Becky27:43

       [laughs]

    6. SRSanya Richards-Ross27:43

       Like, he showed up and he's like, "I ain't gonna fuss. I ain't gonna cry. I can be a-"

    7. BEDr. Becky27:47

       Happy to be here.

    8. SRSanya Richards-Ross27:48

       He's gonna go-

    9. BEDr. Becky27:48

       Happy to be here, guys

    10. SRSanya Richards-Ross27:49

        ... I see y'all. I'm gonna watch. [laughs]

    11. BEDr. Becky27:50

        Thanks for including me.

    12. SRSanya Richards-Ross27:52

        He's like, "I ain't gonna cause no fuss. I'ma just sit here and chill," and he's the calmest baby. My other two are, like, crazy off the wall. And so, you know, he's just been a very easy addition. He hasn't caused us any additional strife. He's healthy, loving. So yeah, and I'm just really proud of where we've come as a family, you know? Like, I thought we were gonna be a family of three, now we're an awesome, loving family of five, and I just, yeah, I just love it.

13. 28:16 – 31:23

    Toolkit for young athletes—especially girls: authenticity, hard work, and mental training

    1. BEDr. Becky28:16

       I love that. Um, so speaking of kids, I'm sure you notice the athletic world around you, kids these days, you know, doing sports, competitive sports. A, a, a couple questions around kind of, I, I'm curious about, you know, if you had like some toolkit for the next generation, some of the things that that might include. So yeah, l- let's start with for young girls in sports. When you think about young girls in sports trying to figure out where they fit, feeling like enough, you know, the d- drive to do well and maintain your mental health, like, what, what's a message you have for them?

    2. SRSanya Richards-Ross28:49

       Yeah, um, and you know, we, I kind of alluded to that in the beginning of our conversation is that they're definitely navigating a whole new environment and space when it comes to being a great athlete, uh, a- and being in sports as a woman in sports, because I think that comes with a whole nother level of mental toughness that is required. Um, because, you know, when you're a woman in sports, and I don't know if this may be in life, Dr. Becky, you can tell me, but it, it requires more, right, for you to kinda get the same stuff, you know? Like, you, you can't just be great. You also gotta speak well, you gotta look a certain way. There's so many other buts, buts, buts or and, and, ands. Um, but what I'll tell you is, and I've, I've really loved to see this, is that there has been a, a shift and a change in sports that I think young girls can lean into. I would say to the young girl out there, um, to just be authentic. Show up 100% who you are. I would say to work hard. Like, that's, there's no shortcut to success. I think people now think there's like a microwaveable success. There's no shortcuts to success. You're gonna have to put in the work, believe in yourself, surround yourself with good people, positive people, and the sky is the limit.

    3. BEDr. Becky29:58

       What trait or quality, not physical, more emotional, mental, do you feel like is really important for young athletes to, to be building?

    4. SRSanya Richards-Ross30:06

       Um, yeah. I would say, I, I, I would say we talked about it too is that kind of like being able to turn back into yourself. Like, I think you have to, you have to set goals for yourself and constantly be checking in with those personal goals so that you don't get so caught up with what's going on around you that you lose your way And so, you know, I, I, I didn't mention this earlier, but one of the other shifts in my career that I think helped me so much after 2008 was I started working with a sports psychologist. Um, and I wish I had started doing it sooner. If anyone... If someone had told me, I would've done it sooner. But it really helped me because I was honing all my skills physically with my strength coach, my track coach, but I really wasn't fine-tuning my mental toughness. And so when I got with Dr. Corley and we started to work on the skills that it took to really be present in the moment, to quiet that monkey chatter, that noise in our minds that sometimes distracts us from being great, it really changed the game for me. And so I would also encourage young people, especially ones that wanna perform at the highest level, to work with a sports psychologist or a psychologist to really help to give you the tools that you need to be present, um, and fully mentally prepared to execute at your highest level, um, when you become an elite athlete.

14. 31:23 – 33:14

    Handling failure and building resilience: ‘fail forward’ as fuel

    1. BEDr. Becky31:23

       After, after the loss, whether it's a race or the game, a bad game, what, what do you think about telling young athletes? Like, how should they handle that? What should they say to themselves? What thoughts should they watch out for?

    2. SRSanya Richards-Ross31:33

       Yeah, I think after a really tough loss, you gotta remember the sun is gonna come up tomorrow. The world is not coming to an end. And that challenges come to refine us. They don't come to keep us down. And so I've al- I always tell people that, you know, failure is a recipe in the ingredients for success. And so you're not gonna get to that final point of success without experiencing some failure, so you gotta figure out how to embrace it. Lean into it. I always say you fail forward. So, you know, failing feels like you're falling down, but if you're failing forward, when you get up you're in a better, you're in a better place. And so I think it is not to be afraid of failing, but to embrace it in the best way that you can, learn from it, and then get back to work.

    3. BEDr. Becky32:21

       I love that idea of, like, thinking about it like an ingredient in that recipe. 'Cause I, I think about that, too. Like, I'll be watching a team I like, and, you know, I'm a big fan of Duke basketball or, you know, we're big Boston sports fans here. And, you know, they'll lose in the regular season. And, you know, it's always, you know... First of all, I'm not on the team, but still as a fan you're like, "Oh, man," right? But if you think about the ultimate goal and the championship and the playoffs, like, you need that hard loss. You need, 'cause you need to know... Nothing someone tells you is gonna give you the experience of that-

    4. SRSanya Richards-Ross32:53

       Experience-

    5. BEDr. Becky32:53

       ... feeling

    6. SRSanya Richards-Ross32:54

       ... is nothing.

    7. BEDr. Becky32:54

       That feeling. You can't... And that feeling when you're in the championship game, like, that's gonna drive you. Again, if you hate losing you're like, "I do not want that to happen." But if you don't know the feeling and you can't use it, I, I have to imagine you're not gonna get to that next level.

    8. SRSanya Richards-Ross33:11

       Absolutely. It's, it's fuel. It is certainly fuel.

15. 33:14 – 41:20

    Legacy and rapid-fire: values as a mom, hidden sacrifices, and advice for parents in sports

    1. BEDr. Becky33:14

       Um, okay, thinking about your kids. Question. When your kids are older and someone innocently asks them, "Oh, your mom, like, what, what was she like? What is she like?" And they kind of answer and they say, "Oh, my mom, she..." How, how do you hope they finish that sentence?

    2. SRSanya Richards-Ross33:31

       Oh, I love that question. Um, I hope that they'll say that their mom was always very loving, um, very supportive, very thoughtful. Um, and that, um, you know, I was someone that always did my best to try to help to set them up to have, you know, the best future that they could have. And so in every way, like, I'm constantly thinking about, you know, like, what do they need now to be able to be successful in the future? Whether that's in school or sports or financially, like, how can I kinda help them to, you know, face some of those pitfalls that are gonna come? And so everything that happens now, like, we, my husband and I both try to see it as a lesson, you know, for the future. So I hope that they'll say that I was loving, thoughtful, kind, and always preparing them to be the best versions of themselves in the future.

    3. BEDr. Becky34:16

       So beautiful. Again, I, I think a lot about how at Good Inside we talk about to parents being long-term greedy. We wanna stay connected to our kid now. Of course we want these wins, but you're parenting today because you know the impact of parenting on your kids when they're 18 and 38 and 58, when inevitably the stakes are gonna be higher than when they're eight, right? And so that I know. I don't know if you think about it this way, being long-term greedy. Besides the opportunities my kids have, it's why I think I really think about that in the moment they're, let's say they're left out of a birthday party or they're struggling with math, that I don't tell them, "Oh, this is great for you." But internally one of the reasons I think I can stay grounded is I realized, wait, my kid's gonna be left out of things for the rest of their life. Or my kid will learn how to read and do math, but they're gonna do things the rest of their life that don't come to them immediately or don't come maybe as fast as they do to the person next to them. And if I can stay in this moment and not just fix it and, and rescue, if I, if I can help them get support in the struggle without stealing their competence, that to me is the ultimate long-term greedy perspective. And so I, I agree. I think your kids don't necessarily say thank you in the moment for it, but I think it's the thing when they're older they'll be like, "Oh, that was really good for me, and I'm grateful."

    4. SRSanya Richards-Ross35:41

       Exactly. Exactly.

    5. BEDr. Becky35:42

       I wanna do, I know there's no official overtime in track and field, but this is overtime, so it's the extra race. And so a little bit of rapid fire to kind of wrap us up. Best piece of advice you got in your career.

    6. SRSanya Richards-Ross35:55

       I, I, the best piece of advice I got was my aunt once told me, "The brave may fall, but never yield." And I feel like I live that every day. Like, there's failures and stuff, but you just never yield. Relentless.

    7. BEDr. Becky36:06

       Any superstition, especially when you were racing, that you, like, secretly believed, like, actually helped you?

    8. SRSanya Richards-Ross36:13

       Yes. [laughs] It's really silly. But my mom, my mom gave me this, like, little bullet necklace. And she gave it to me when I was really young, and she said it was like, for me it was, "You're faster than a speeding bullet." And so I used to always wear it when I ra- when I raced. Like, it was like my lucky charm. And I didn't wear it for one race, um, when I was, like, in high school or something, and I lost and I was like, "I'm never taking this necklace off again." And even though I did have some losses with it on, I still always felt like that was kind of my lucky charm, and I wore it my entire career. [laughs]

    9. BEDr. Becky36:42

       Love that. The last thing your kid did, one of your kids did, that kind of, like, knocked you off your rocker, like really kept you humble?

    10. SRSanya Richards-Ross36:50

        Oh, [laughs] that's a good one. Oh, man. So my son, my eight-year-old, is, like, obsessed with, like, he one day getting married and having, like, a fam- Like, you know, like, you're eight. You're eight. Like, slow down. So he comes home and he's like, "Mom, we have a dance on, um, you know, coming up. Can I, can I ask Kelsey to go with me?" I'm like-

    11. BEDr. Becky37:10

        Uh

    12. SRSanya Richards-Ross37:10

        ... "You're eight." Like... [laughs]

    13. BEDr. Becky37:13

        He's a planner.

    14. SRSanya Richards-Ross37:14

        Yeah, yeah. So he's already-

    15. BEDr. Becky37:15

        [laughs]

    16. SRSanya Richards-Ross37:16

        ... Okay. But and then my, you know, my husband and I love it, right? Because he sees a loving relationship, so he really wants it already. So I'm like, "Okay, this is a positive thing," but it still kinda has me like, "I don't know how to feel about this. You're just eight, asking to go on a, like, a date already? I don't know." [laughs]

    17. BEDr. Becky37:30

        Love it. These kids, they're advanced. A moment from your career that maybe the cameras didn't catch, but, like, you hold with a lot of pride.

    18. SRSanya Richards-Ross37:38

        I think it was around 2007 was when I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease called Behçet. So I had really bad, like, mouth ulcers. I would get skin lesions that looked like someone burnt me overnight. It was, like, really bizarre. Um, and so I remember, you know, some of my training days where I would have such bad ulcers in my mouth, I'd have to, like, literally run with, like, a cup in my mouth so that my, my, um, my teeth wouldn't scrape against my, um, my jaw. And I remember my coach always saying, you know, like, he's like, "Son," like, "no one's seeing this right now, but this is the work that you're doing that's gonna one day, you know, pay off for that Olympic gold medal." So I would say that those would be the moments, or that's, like, one that always comes to my mind, is like the stuff that I used to do that nobody knew that I was, like, really suffering through to still fight towards this dream. I would say that was one of them.

    19. BEDr. Becky38:27

        Relentless. And one thing that you would tell parents who have kids in competitive sports today.

    20. SRSanya Richards-Ross38:35

        Um, I would tell them to follow their kid's lead. Um, I would say to just ensure that that drive, that desire, is really coming from, you know, their kid, and, um, and then just do everything that they can to support them. So whether that's doing the research to understand, like, what that kid might need, what kind of coaching and support, um, whether it is exposing them to a game, like going to professional games so they can kinda see and set that big goal really early. You know, experiencing the Olympics together, experiencing it together where they feel like, "Wow, this is special and I wanna aspire towards doing that." I think as parents, we can be really creative in how we open up that dream for our kids. And so I would say just being present and understanding, like, where they are, and just kinda meeting them there and supporting them in every way, um, so that they, they, if they, if they desire it, they can be great in that sport.

    21. BEDr. Becky39:31

        I, I could talk to you forever. I want-

    22. SRSanya Richards-Ross39:33

        Yeah.

    23. BEDr. Becky39:33

        Thank you. This has been... I've learned so much. I feel so connected to your, so many parts of your story, and, um, I'm just so grateful for this time together, so thank you.

    24. SRSanya Richards-Ross39:44

        Thank you so much. This was really great. I really appreciate it.

    25. BEDr. Becky39:50

        [upbeat music] I got so much out of this conversation, but I can tell you the thing that's loudest in my head. It is the moment her coach said to her after she got the bronze in 2008, "I won't allow you to miss this next race. I won't allow you." This is the essence, in my mind, of leadership, of seeing goodness, of seeing capability. I think in our hardest moments, we're desperate for people to see our pain, but we're also desperate for them to see our competence, to see our ability to cope, to have hope for something. That inevitably allows us to eventually access that hope as well. That was such a powerful moment in her story, and I know that's something that I try to use to inspire my parenting with my own kids as well. Let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground. Place a hand on your heart. Let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 41:21