Good Inside Parenting is Not Gentle Parenting

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:00

      [gentle music]

2. 0:02 – 1:03

   Why “Good Inside” isn’t gentle—it’s sturdy

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:02

      So here's a question I get asked a lot from reporters, from parents, "Tell me about gentle parenting, Dr. Becky. Tell me about gentle parenting." And, you know, I often am struck by this question because I don't even exactly know what to say. Nothing about my approach to parenting, nothing about Good Inside, to me, actually reads gentle. And to be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with the word gentle. And when I say it's not gentle, I don't think the opposite has to be true either. It's not harsh. It's not mean. But when I think about a word that describes Good Inside Parenting and my whole approach, it's the word sturdy. A- and I wanna go into this a little bit because I think it's really important. It's not just semantics. That Good Inside is sturdy, not gentle. So many of the most critical moments with our kids require intense sturdiness. The moment

3. 1:03 – 1:33

   Sturdy leadership in real-life blowups (the playdate example)

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:03

      when I have to pick my kid up because they're out of control at a play date, and all the other parents are around, and I carry him to the car, and he's screaming, "I hate you. Let me down," I don't think there's anything gentle about me in that moment. There's also nothing punitive. There's nothing hurtful. But I think to be effective in that moment, I need intense, grounded sturdiness, sturdiness in my role, sturdiness in my body, sturdiness in my intention. It makes

4. 1:33 – 2:35

   The “sturdy pilot” metaphor: staying connected without being taken over

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:33

      me think a lot about a pilot, right? If you think about flying through intense turbulence, and you think about the pilot you might have, I don't want what I would consider a kind of gentle pilot. "All right, everyone. We're gonna figure it out. Seems like you're scared." That, to me, is not the fit I'm looking for. I also don't want a harsh pilot. I definitely don't want a pilot saying, "What's wrong with you? Stop screaming. You're making a big deal out of nothing." I want a sturdy pilot. And to me, sturdiness is the ability to be connected to yourself and be connected to others at the same time. You see other people's feelings and experiences as real, and there's a boundary between their experience and your own, so you can see their experience and not be taken over by it. A sturdy pilot in that situation would say, "It's turbulent. I hear that you're scared. That's okay. I know what I'm doing, and I'm

5. 2:35 – 3:37

   No punishments needed: clarity, conviction, and confidence

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:35

      going to make sure we get to our destination safely." And so I wanna talk about sturdiness. I wanna talk about why Good Inside Parenting isn't gentle. It isn't soft. And it also, to be sturdy, does not need consequences or punishments which have never taught anyone anything in the history of the world. Sturdy leaders don't lead with punishment. They don't lead with consequences. They don't lead with flimsiness. And in my mind, they don't lead with gentleness either. They lead with clarity and conviction and confidence. And I really believe that's what our kids need from us. And so that's what we're going to be talking about today. We'll be back right after this. As

6. 3:37 – 5:38

   Sponsor break: Keepsake memory journaling

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:37

      a parent, have you ever thought to yourself, "I wish I could press pause right now and remember this exact moment"? I know I have. And yet, as a busy parent, I can never find the time to sit down and put all of those memories into a book. Well, thanks to Keepsake, capturing moments is as easy as answering a text. You heard that right. Just a daily text from Keepsake is all it takes to start saving photos, stories, and memories of my family. It's really that easy. It's also a simple way to connect and bond with my kids, especially my DFK, who loves to help me respond to the text-based journal prompts. And the best part, Keepsake then transforms all of your captured memories into a beautiful book. Whether you have a toddler or a school-aged child, every cutely mispronounced word, first day of school picture, soccer tournament win, and family memory is priceless. And it's never too late to start. Visit keepsake.com. That's Q-E-E-P-S-A-K-E.com, and try it free for a week. Plus, you can use 20% off your annual or any gift subscription when you use code DRBECKY, D-R-B-E-C-K-Y, at keepsake.com. That's Q-E-E-P-S-A-K-E.com to start preserving your family's memories today. I receive so many questions about consequences and punishments, and I get it. We've been raised with this idea that if you're not giving a kid consequences, you're approving of their behavior. If you want your kid to grow up into an upstanding adult, they have to understand they're gonna get punished because in real life, there are punishments and consequences. I see this very differently. And I wanna go through your questions to illustrate a couple of really important points. So let's hear from a couple different parents.

7. 5:38 – 7:39

   Parent Q1—Name-calling siblings: stop seeking consequences, teach skills

   1. UPUnidentified Parents5:38

      Hi, Dr. Becky. I have a three-year-old daughter and a six-year-old son. And I have a question about what a consequence might be for when my younger daughter calls her older brother names. I tell her that I won't let her call him names, and that it's unkind, and that she can be mad but not mean. But I don't know what a natural consequence is when I can't control the words that are coming out of her mouth.

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:08

      This is such a good question. I hear this all the time. And actually, I think the first thing we need to do is what I'm gonna call kind of upgrade this question. There's not many things that matter more in parenting than noticing the questions we're asking. I know that sounds odd. You might think, "No, isn't it important to answer the questions?" It's not. It's actually first important to wonder, am I asking myself the right question? Here's a question: What consequence do I give my kid? Well, I guess I'm already assuming in that question I'm giving a consequence. To me, a question we need to ask ourselves is, what does my daughter need, and what skills does my daughter need to build so that she can feel frustrated or maybe jealous toward her brother and not call him names? Those are very different questions. The question, what consequence can I give, doesn't really in my mind have any understanding of the progress or change we even want to make. Is a consequence gonna give a kid a new skill that they can use the next time? It would be like if I didn't do a project well at work, and my boss said, "What consequence should I give Becky? What's a natural consequence?" I would hope someone would say to my boss, "Well, don't you want Becky to do better the next time? Like, how are we just teaching her what she missed? How are we helping her develop so she can do better?" That's a much more empowering question, so let's answer that question a little bit together. What's going on for a three-year-old

8. 7:39 – 9:23

   How to build the skill: validation + brainstorm alternatives

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:39

      when they say mean words, and what skill does a kid need so that they might feel a distressing feeling, but the feeling not explode out of them in mean words? So what I would do here first with my daughter is talk to her outside the moment. That's always when we build skills, for adults and kids. I might just say something like, "It's really hard to have a brother, right?" It's amazing how much that can diffuse. Kids are just so desperate to feel seen, and saying, "It's so hard to have a brother," speaks to your kid's need to feel understood that there's a lot of tricky moments with siblings. I might go a little further. I might say, "I have a tricky question. Hmm. Sometimes we feel mad at our brother. I get that. Me too. It's okay to feel mad. It's not okay to say mean words. Hmm. Okay to feel mad," I might put my hand out, "not okay to say mean words," I might look at my other hand. "What could we do?" And then I can work with my kid to brainstorm. And yes, if you're wondering, "Is my three-year-old going to be able to participate in that?" They will. Kids love to activate their problem-solving when we scaffold that ability. So I think the key thing here is that consequences don't teach skills. That's really what it's all about. I'm not saying avoid the consequence because, quote, "it's not nice." I mean, it's not, but I'm a pragmatist. Giving a kid a consequence doesn't help them do better the next time, and if we're really invested in change, we have to be invested in teaching our kids skills. All right, let's go to the next question from a different parent.

9. 9:23 – 12:23

   Parent Q2—DFK hitting/insults: why consequences don’t address dysregulation

   1. UPUnidentified Parents9:23

      Hi. I have an eight-year-old DFK, and I've been using Dr. Becky's approach and trying to be the sturdy pilot during dysregulated moments. During those times, my son will often hit me and tell me I am stupid and dumb. I try to hold his hand and stop him from hitting and ask him not to hit me and not to use mean words. After years of doing it the wrong way, I've learnt that addressing those issues in the moment only escalates things. I believe our new method is helping him move through those times much quicker and prevent a complete explosion. But here's my question. How do I circle back to addressing those behaviors? I feel that we need consequences so he knows those behaviors are not okay, but it also feels so ineffective to come back to them later in calmer moments, and it doesn't feel right giving consequences when he is calm and doing well later on. In the meantime, it feels like we're just overlooking and giving into bad behavior.

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:22

      Another excellent question. I think to me, you know, the thing that strikes me is how embedded the idea of consequences are in our ideas about parenting. It's like we've taken them for granted. I know that we weren't born thinking, "When I become a parent, consequences are going to be the thing I do to my kids or give to my kids." Like, no one was born thinking that way. We've just absorbed it as if it's fact. And so that's the first thing I wanna question. Consequences are an idea. It's something someone put out there. We should give kid consequences. Just because people have been saying that forever doesn't mean it was ever effective. In fact, if we look at the struggles so many teens and adults have, it all has to do with not being able to regulate your emotions, feeling bad, feeling not worthy, feeling like too much or not enough. Well, guess what? So many of those adult struggles come from our childhood when no one helped us when we were vulnerable, and instead judged us and gave us consequences for the behaviors we were engaging, which were just a sign of our desperation and need for help. So when your kid is out of control, your deeply feeling kid or your non-deeply feeling kid, you're right. When they're in this out of control, 10 out of 10 dysregulated state, the words that are coming out of their mouth are a sign that they are in total threat mode. They are in the most animalistic part of their brain. They feel like they're being attacked by their feelings. Everything feels like a threat. Their words are not a statement of some truth. Their words are a sign of their overwhelm and feeling of being totally out of control. So if we reframe the question that way, when my kid is overwhelmed and totally out of control and in the purely animalistic part of their brain, what consequence should I give to them when they're calm? I'm pausing, and I, I wonder if you are too, because I

10. 12:23 – 13:54

    Reframing “accountability”: what actually helps after the storm

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:23

       feel like when we say it that way, we shake our heads, like, what? Why are we talking about consequences? You know, we conflate things a lot. Well, if you don't give your kid a consequence, they're gonna think that you think it was okay that they treated you that way. Again, and I mean this, that's made up. I mean, I think about myself. Let's say I'm not at my best with my husband, and I say some words that, you know, I really don't mean, again, probably because I'm in a state of threat and feeling like a 10 out of 10. Let's say we get through the moment. Maybe he says in the moment some version of, "Look, we've got to get through this. We'll talk about this when we're both calm." I don't know. Later, if we're calm, and he says to me something skill-building, like, "Hey, you were really upset earlier, and I don't know, maybe I could help you, or maybe you could get help yourself now that you're an adult, to really figure out how to manage whatever feeling you were having so it doesn't come out in those words you were talking to me." And maybe if he continues and says, "And I love you. I know you're a good person, and I know you can work on this," I want to know, are you thinking, wow, Becky, your husband basically said to you that it's okay for you to talk to him like that. Like, what human actually feels that way? No, when we're at our worst and when we're overwhelmed, we are so desperate for the people who love us to reflect back our goodness, because we've temporarily lost it ourselves. And when instead they reflect our badness, what's wrong with you? No

11. 13:54 – 16:28

    The “side door” strategy: de-shaming with your own story

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy13:54

       TV for a week, even though it's, like, kind of totally arbitrary. What we take in is, see, I really am as bad and awful and toxic and overpowering as I worried I was, which, guess what, only makes all of those dysregulated moments more likely. What I would suggest doing after those moments with your DFK is one of what I call the side door strategies that deeply feeling kids need. I know this is gonna sound paradoxical, but I'm gonna say it anyway, because I've watched it be one of the most powerful things I do with my own kid, definitely my DFK. After some of her, quote, "worst moments," when things have calmed, I'll say to her something like this: "Did I ever tell you about this thing that happened to me when I was eight? Did I-- Oh, I can't tell you. Oh my goodness. Did I-- Okay, well, saw my brother riding a bike. He was younger than me, and I was so, I don't know, I was so jealous, and do you think I stayed calm? No, I didn't. Oh my goodness. My mom had to carry me to my room, and you don't even want to know the things I said to her. You don't even want to know." Then I'll keep going. I'll share. I screamed, "I hate you. You're the worst," right? What am I doing here? And why is this helpful? Because you might be thinking, wow, so instead of giving her a consequence, you're telling her you've done the same thing. Yes. Yes. Yes. A million percent yes. I'm de-shaming the moment. Think about yourself. Think about your worst moment. Think about your most embarrassing moment. Think about, you know, a moment, I don't know, you were in a work meeting, and instead of doing a good presentation, I don't know, you got super embarrassed. Your pants fell down, or you said something that was just awful that you didn't even mean, and you're talking to a friend. If you're like me, there's only one thing that's gonna help in this moment. It's if they tell you they basically had the same type of experience, because what they're really saying to you is, "You're not so bad after all. You're not alone. I'm right there with you." And when we de-shame a situation, when we connect to someone after their struggle, we actually give them the connection they need to start digging their way out of that hole. And so again, it's not just about helping our kid feel good. It's actually building the foundation they need to incorporate new skills and make positive change. Most of us have been taught to take punishments and timeouts and consequences as a given. It's embedded

12. 16:28 – 17:48

    Workshop plug: what to do instead of punishments/timeouts

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:28

       in so many messages around parenting. Well, if hearing this conversation is starting to make you skeptical, is making you wonder, huh, punishments and timeouts really might not be so effective, and that doesn't mean I'm soft. It actually just means I want to be effective. But wait. If I'm not giving punishments and timeouts and consequences, what am I doing? What am I doing instead? How can I make sure my kids are getting what they need today to actually make the changes they need to make? I've got you covered. I am so excited to be hosting a live workshop focused on exactly this, why punishments and timeouts and consequences don't work and what to do instead. That last part really matters. Here's what to do instead so your kids can stop hitting, are rude less often, do actually listen to you. I actually do have a roadmap from where their behavior is today to the outcomes we're all looking for, and I cannot wait to share it all with you. For more information, check the links in my show notes or go to goodinside.com. And also, yes, it will be recorded, so if you can't make it live, no big deal. It's all there for you.

13. 17:48 – 21:28

    Parent Q3—Forgetting essentials: shift from “consequences” to “letting”

    1. UPUnidentified Parents17:48

       Hi, Dr. Becky. My eight-year-old daughter, who is also a DFK, just has the hardest time staying on top of her stuff, putting her school laptop on the charger, putting her gloves back in her basket, or her pink tights for ballet. We have invested time and money in setting up structures and routines, creating places for everything that she needs for her activities and for school, but she doesn't use them unless we walk her through the entire process. So we are starting to feel like, okay, there needs to just be consequences. If she forgets her water bottle, if she forgets to plug in her laptop, she doesn't have her uniform for dance, she should just experience that consequence. How do we prepare her to take the safety net out and say, "Okay, if you don't use these things and you don't do these things, you're gonna feel the consequences"? Thank you.

    2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:57

       So this brings up a general kind of struggle I have with the word consequences, because people say, okay, is there a difference? You're giving a kid a consequence, which is kind of like a punishment, or you're letting them experience natural consequences, which is the feeling you have when you want your water bottle, but you forgot it, and your parent didn't put it in your backpack for you. So here's my general perspective about consequences, and then we're gonna get to this question. I think the mindset we're in is the most important thing when it comes to our interactions with our kid. The mindset we're in determines the interventions we use, and here's how I think about mindset. I think you probably heard me say I think a lot about how there's a good kid having a hard time, not a bad kid doing bad things. There's a difference between a good kid's identity, and there's sometimes bad behavior. That has to do with mindset, but here's another version of mindset. I just want to say my, myself, the language I'm using about my kid, and the question I'm asking myself, does it make me like my kid and make me want to feel closer to them, or does it make me not really like my kid, and it makes me want to distance myself? So then I say to myself the word consequence. What consequence should I give my kid? Well, for me, and this might not be true for you, but for me, if I'm using the word consequence, I just don't like my kid. Like, I don't really like anyone I'm giving consequences to. That word just for me elicits, like, a sense of antagonism, and, like, this is my enemy, and it makes me think of, I don't know, I was gonna show up late or make some mistake, and my husband was around. He's like, "I'm just gonna let Becky have that consequence." Again, it just feels like we're, we're at against each other. So what I think this question is really talking about isn't really consequences in that way, letting my kid have consequences. To me, we're just talking about letting life transpire. Like, that's really what we're talking about, just letting. I think that word is really important, and it's something I've been thinking about with my kids a lot as they get older. Letting. What do I mean? My kid doesn't remember his water bottle. I'm gonna let that happen. I'm just gonna let it happen. I'm not gonna change the course of events. My kid doesn't plug in her laptop before school, and I know it's gonna die. I'm gonna let that happen. I'm just gonna let things transpire, not because there's a, quote, "consequence," but because it's important for my kid to live through the kind of natural arc of events so that they can feel empowered to change that arc of events.

14. 21:28 – 26:02

    Remove yourself from the arc: stop rescuing and narrate the new plan

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:28

       What, what, what arc am I talking about? Here's an example from this parent. My kid doesn't charge their laptop. Maybe I've had a history of saying, "Okay, I said you should do it. I guess I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna charge your laptop. Okay, now it's charged. I'm putting it in your backpack, and now it's good until the next day." What's the arc? Here's the arc. Kid forgets to charge. Parent seems annoyed. Parent charges the laptop. Kid has charged laptop. Now, when I think about an arc of events, and I encourage you to do this too, I often think I am trying to work myself out of a job. I don't think I want my kid when they're 18 to associate me in their arc of having their laptop charged. So if I don't want that for myself, and frankly, I don't think that's good for my kid either, right, to be 18 and be dependent on me to charge their laptop, then I have to ask myself not what consequence should my kid experience, but what is my role here, and how am I preparing or not preparing my kid for, you know, the rest of their life? Same thing with a water bottle. My kid forgets a water bottle. I put the water bottle in their backpack. My kid has a water bottle. If that's not the arc that I think is helpful for my kid, which I think we'd all agree, not so helpful, because the arc we want is I have to have a water bottle. I remember my water bottle. I fill up my water bottle. I put my water bottle in the backpack. My parent isn't really involved. Well, then I have to take myself out of the arc. And again, consequence for me just doesn't come into the equation. Resilience does, independence, planning skills. So if this is a shift for you, and this is what a parent's asking too, I have kind of inserted myself into that arc. So it's no wonder why my kid isn't gaining these skills, because we're just practicing the arc over and over that involves my solutions. Can I give my kid a heads-up, and can I do it in a way that doesn't feel punitive? Because again, I think that's really not the purpose. The purpose is actually doing our job as a parent and helping our kids prepare for life. So yeah, I think what we could say to our kid there is some version of, "Hey, you know what I'm thinking about? There have been a couple different things. You know, your laptop being charged, your water bottle. Maybe it's remembering your homework. Here's the thing. I really mean this, sweetie. I, I'm actually doing you a disservice. In the short term, I'm doing a lot of the remembering for you. I'm remembering the charging. I'm remembering the water bottle. I'm remembering the homework in the folder, and I know you're capable of the remembering. It's like any other skill. It's hard before it becomes easy. But the more I do that skill for you, the less likely you're gonna be able to practice it yourself. And sweetie, I'm also in some ways telling you that I don't think you're capable of doing it by doing it for you, and I really do think you're capable. So I just want to be very clear, starting tomorrow, if I notice your water bottle isn't in your bag, I'm not gonna get it. If I notice your laptop isn't charged, I'm not gonna charge it. And if I notice your homework is still on your desk in your room, I'm not gonna put it in your folder." And I know that means there's gonna be moments where you're like, "I don't have my homework. My laptop's not charged, and I don't have my water bottle." And I promise you, when you come home after those moments at school, here's what I'm not gonna say: "Told you. Well, you gotta remember." I'm really not, because this is gonna be new for you, and learning any new skill independently is actually hard and always has bumps in the road. So what I'm gonna say to you is, "Oh, what was that like not to have your water bottle?" Or, "Oh, you didn't have your laptop charged? Oh, it must've been so annoying." I really will show up in that way for you because I promise I'll have patience with you as we help you develop these skills. That is a completely different mentality to me. It's, again, it's a completely different mindset than should my kid experience that consequence. The other thing, just 'cause I can't help myself, that I think is really important in this conversation is it is so hard for us to not charge the laptop, and not fill up that water bottle, and not put the homework in the folder, right? I think it's so hard, and we worry, "Oh, I'm, I'm kind of knowing my kid is going into this bad situation," or, "Am I a bad parent," right? "If my kid doesn't have their homework, is everyone gonna think I'm a bad mom?" So first of all, I just wanna ground ourselves again in our job. So much of our job is making sure our kids develop the skills when they're young that they really need when they're old, when the stakes are so much higher. And no matter how old your kid is right now as you're listening to this, maybe you're thinking, "My kid is four. My kid is seven. Oh, no, my kid is actually 18, and I've been doing this all wrong." No, you haven't. Your timing is impeccable. No matter how old your kid is now, they're

15. 26:02 – 30:48

    Closing argument: modernize parenting like coaching and workplace leadership

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy26:02

       going to be older in years, and the stakes will only be higher. And so this is the perfect time to peel back, not to give your kid consequences, but to let them experience what they need to experience so they can develop those independent skills that they're going to need. I just wanna wrap up with some final thoughts about consequences, about punishments, and making sure that you know if you don't give consequences, if you don't give punishments, that doesn't mean you're a soft parent. That definitely doesn't mean you're approving of your kid's behavior. In fact, one of the things that really strikes me is parenting is, in some ways, one of the later fields to kind of modernize with respect to our thoughts, right? If we think about management consulting, if we think about business, psychological leadership, if we think about coaching, okay? In the workplace, if you have an employee who's, I don't know, forgetting that their project is due or showing up late to work, I think we know that going to that employee and giving them a punishment is not gonna be the thing that makes them more engaged. It also means that if you go to your employee and you say, "Hey, you've been really late to work, and we're on the same team here, and I know you know how important it is to be here, and so there must be things that get in your way. Let's figure that out together, and I'm happy to help you to make sure, you know, you can do the things you need to do to get here at 9:00," I don't think any employee walks out of that conversation saying, "My boss really lets me get away with things. My boss is so soft." You know what people say? "What an effective boss." If you are a basketball coach and your star player, or any player, is continually missing layups, I don't know one coach who says, "Go to your room. Go to your room, and you come back when you can make layups for this team. Oh, if you don't make the next layup, I'm going to bench you for the next game." I don't think any of us find that coach inspiring. You know what coach we want for our kids, or for even a professional team, is the coach that says, "Hey, you know, I'm gonna sit you down for this game. I'm gonna kind of keep you here with me. You're not in trouble. You're having a hard time. That's okay. We're gonna really work on some things in practice, and I'm saying that to you because I believe in you, and I know something's off, and I know I can be the one with you to help figure this out. We're going to get there." I don't think anyone's saying, "What a soft coach. Oh, that coach is really kind of saying to the player that it's okay that they're missing all those layups." What? That doesn't even make sense. So let's bring the thinking that we've already incorporated into athletics, into the workplace, into parenting, where we're talking about our small children. I promise it doesn't lead to things going off the rails. It doesn't lead to spoiled, entitled kids who feel like they can act the way they wanna act. Of course, our kids need boundaries. They need us to step in with sturdiness. They need us to stop them from engaging in behaviors that are dangerous, and then they need us to help them build skills. They need practice, and they always, always, always need us to see the good kid under the bad behavior. Let's revolutionize parenting together. [upbeat music] Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com/podcast. You could also write me at podcast@goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world, and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like-valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Nuzum at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Natt, and Kristin Mueller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 30:49