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How Being Seen as a Child Shapes the Way We Parent and Lead | Dr. Becky & Will Guidara

This episode is part of our new series, *How We’re Raised* — conversations about how the homes we grew up in shape the way we lead, love, and parent today. Dr. Becky sits down with restaurateur and author Will Guidara to explore how being deeply seen as a child shaped the way he builds culture — in restaurants and at home.Will shares what it was like growing up with a mother who became quadriplegic after brain cancer, the quiet power of full presence, and how those early experiences led him to build a career around “unreasonable hospitality” — not in pursuit of product, but in pursuit of people.Together, they talk about: - Why feeling seen matters more than being impressive - The gift — and cost — of being the person who cares for everyone - Why holding your child can matter more than fixing their problem - And how to bring more intention into your home life Get the Good Inside App by Dr. Becky: https://bit.ly/4fSxbzk Your Good Inside membership might be eligible for HSA/FSA reimbursement! To learn more about how to get your membership reimbursed, check out the link here: https://www.goodinside.com/fsa-hsa-eligibility/ Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside Sign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletter For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcast Thank you to our partners for making this episode of Good Inside possible! -Care.com: http://www.care.com/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=GOOD35_INF00038: For a limited time, you can use the code GOOD35 to save 35% on a Care.com Premium Membership.* -Airbnb: https://click.pscrb.fm/2f: If you’re ready to host but want some support, find a co-host at -Skylight: https://myskylight.com/becky: Get $30 off a 15-inch Skylight Calendar at myskylight.com/becky -Hiya: https://hiyahealth.com/: Use the code DRBECKY for 50% off your first order. *Offer applies to initial term of Care.com membership subscriptions. Not applicable to add-on features or non-renewing access fees or services. Expires 4/26/26. Care.com does not employ or place any caregiver. Background checks are an important start, but they have limits. Visit www.care.com/safety. Order your copy of Leave Me Alone! https://www.goodinside.com/leavemealone/?utm_source=&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=leavemealone_preorder_on_sale&utm_content=shownotes_20260303, Dr. Becky’s new picture book about Deeply Feeling Kids.

Will GuidaraguestDr. Beckyhost
Mar 3, 202638mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:31

    Hospitality as a human need: the desire to feel seen

    1. WG

      In spite of the fact that she could not walk or talk, I have never felt more loved by anyone in my entire life. Do you know when someone is so focused on a single person that you know you are the only thing in the world that matters to them? We made the choice to be unreasonable, not in pursuit of product-

    2. BE

      Yeah

    3. WG

      ... but in pursuit of people, and relentless in pursuit of the one thing that will never, ever change, which is our human desire to feel seen.

    4. BE

      Here's something I think about a lot. The way we lead at work, at home, anywhere, isn't random. It comes from somewhere, and usually it's shaped early by what got noticed in our house, by what didn't. And my guest today is someone who has built a career around care. Will Guidara is a restaurateur and the former co-owner of Eleven Madison Park. Under his leadership, it became one of the most celebrated restaurants in the world, earning four stars in The New York Times and the title of World's Best Restaurant. And Will is so much more than that. He's the author of Unreasonable Hospitality, a book about going beyond service into something more human, something relational. And he's the author of Unreasonable Hospitality Field Guide. If the original book is the what, think about this as the how. What moves me the most about Will isn't just excellence or care or hospitality. It's actually his intentionality, the way he thinks about people. You're gonna hear it today. He's also a dad of two, which means he's not just building culture in restaurants, he is building culture at home, and he has a few pointers that I think we might all want to take in terms of the culture in our home. Today we're starting a new series called How We're Raised, conversations about the homes we grew up in and how our early experiences shape the way we live, lead, and love today. So this isn't a conversation about business strategy. It's a conversation about the child under the leader, about the patterns that help us succeed, and the ones that sometimes get in our way. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. Well, I'm so glad you're here right now. But-

    5. WG

      Mm-hmm

    6. BE

      ... before we get into anything reflective or deep, we're gonna do all of that.

    7. WG

      Okay.

    8. BE

      I just want to locate you, kind of situate you and your life right now. Like, where are you in your life? What does a normal week look like? Just give us the basics and then we're gonna jump in.

  2. 2:31 – 4:13

    Will’s life now: leaving NYC restaurants for Nashville, writing, and fatherhood

    1. WG

      Gosh, my life is so much different now than I thought it would be.

    2. BE

      Mm.

    3. WG

      I remember my wife and I were in Seattle like five years ago, and we were walking past a houseboat and she said, "Can we live on a houseboat in Seattle one day?" And I said, "No, we live in New York City. We will always live in New York City."

    4. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    5. WG

      And she said, "Kind of wish you'd told me that before we got married." [laughs]

    6. BE

      [laughs]

    7. WG

      And I thought that would be my life.

    8. BE

      Yeah.

    9. WG

      Owning restaurants and living in New York City. And now neither of those is true. My family and I live in Nashville. I spend time with a small team. There's about 10 of us. I write books and I do speaking to companies across pretty much every industry. We have a creative studio where we get to dream of worlds that we wished existed and then one day welcome people into our imaginations. Um, and I replaced restaurants with children, and I'm really grateful that I don't have restaurants and kids at the same time 'cause I don't think I'd be able to be nearly as good at either-

    10. BE

      Yeah

    11. WG

      ... as I'd want to be.

    12. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    13. WG

      So you're, you're catching me in a, in a season that I feel so grateful to be in.

    14. BE

      Yeah. But I feel like with you there's always this through line. I mean, I don't know if my word's gonna be right, but care. It, it just feels like you've built a career around care. You're attentive to other people's experience. Now you're a dad. Care is certainly-

    15. WG

      Yes

    16. BE

      ... you know, part of that partnership. I'm just curious because that... Was that a theme in your life that was pointed for you from day one? Like, when you were a kid, was care a big part of your, your home? Like, how did it become such a, such a theme?

  3. 4:13 – 5:37

    Care shaped by adversity: his mother’s illness and his father’s example

    1. WG

      I think it was, it was a big theme in my home brought about through adversity.

    2. BE

      Mm.

    3. WG

      So when I was a kid, my mom was diagnosed with brain cancer. And by the time I was seven, eight, nine, somewhere in that range, the radiation treatment she received during, uh, her cancer r- when they removed the tumor from her brain had rendered her into becoming a quadriplegic. And so, I mean, my dad is my hero. Like, watching him work restaurant hours, legitimately take care of her and still be a good dad to me and never once feel bad for himself and, in fact to the contrary. Like, I would watch him, and I, I don't, I don't think I, like, consciously registered it at the time-

    4. BE

      Yeah

    5. WG

      ... but I, I, I felt it-

    6. BE

      Yeah

    7. WG

      ... and it infected me in a, in a good way. He derived pleasure out of caring for her. And then as I got a little bit older, we were a team, right? So I would take care of my mom and I would feed her. And, um, and I think because of the example that he set... Yeah, listen, if I can go back in time obviously and wave a magic wand, she would not have gotten sick-

    8. BE

      Sure

    9. WG

      ... and she'd still be alive today. But I never was like, "Gosh, I wish my mom was healthy." Like, that was our situation.

    10. BE

      Yeah.

  4. 5:37 – 6:13

    “I’ve never felt more loved”: presence, eye contact, and being the only thing that matters

    1. WG

      My dad and I took care of her and she, in spite of the fact that she could not walk or talk, I have never felt more loved by anyone in my entire life. Like, the... I, I think from her, this is not totally in line with your question, but eye contact. Like, the little movement around a smile. Do you know when someone is so focused on a single person That you know you are the only thing in the world that matters to them

  5. 6:13 – 9:45

    A snapshot memory: waiting at the end of the street after school

    1. BE

      I wanna go back to that, to something you just said, how loved you felt by your mom, having her, like the way she gazed at you, her movements, having her full attention. Uh, maybe not, but do you remember a moment, like just to zoom in on, or anything like visual or sen- like where were you? I just, I find that so compelling.

    2. WG

      Yeah.

    3. BE

      Maybe it's especially compelling because our lives today, uh, are so chaotic-

    4. WG

      Mm-hmm

    5. BE

      ... and we're pulled in a million directions.

    6. WG

      I don't know how your memory works when you think back to like-

    7. BE

      Mm-hmm

    8. WG

      ... those early days, or honestly, these days, last week.

    9. BE

      Yeah.

    10. WG

      But, [laughs] but I remember like glimpses, right?

    11. BE

      Right.

    12. WG

      There's like these little things that for whatever reason-

    13. BE

      Yep

    14. WG

      ... uh, I, uh, I can almost watch like an old VHS tape of a five-second clip of my life.

    15. BE

      Yes.

    16. WG

      I used to ride a bicycle home, um, from school. It was like so close. That's how I got home. And at a certain point, probably when I was, uh, s- I don't know, eighth grade or something, by that point my dad had brought in a nurse to help-

    17. BE

      Mm

    18. WG

      ... during the day 'cause n- now we just needed it when my dad was at work. And my mom would have the nurse push her to the end of the street m- like 10 minutes before I was likely to come home, and she would always be waiting there.

    19. BE

      Mm.

    20. WG

      And I don't know which day or what, but I remember one of those moments. I remember coming down that little hill, and her just... And she would, [laughs] she would just have the biggest smile on her face. And so that w- that's the moment. And I remember like the eye contact and the smile. And maybe that's an amalgamation of a bunch of those days wrapped up in one.

    21. BE

      Yeah.

    22. WG

      I'm not sure, but...

    23. BE

      But it is so interesting the story we tell ourselves about what kids need to feel confident.

    24. WG

      Mm.

    25. BE

      I don't know, like now, right? Like the starting center on their soccer team, which means they need-

    26. WG

      [laughs]

    27. BE

      ... five private lessons a week-

    28. WG

      Yes

    29. BE

      ... and three teams, and they need to be the math star, and they need to have all the friends, and they need the fancy birthday party. And if their friends all have this water bottle, they need this water bottle. We, a- and I'm just thinking about like Mom, my mom waited for me, and she was just watching me. There was nothing more important-

    30. WG

      Yeah

  6. 9:45 – 11:00

    Delight without performance: drums, grunge band, and unconditional enjoyment

    1. WG

      Yeah, I mean, like listen to this. I played the drums.

    2. BE

      Yeah.

    3. WG

      Like let that sink in. I threaten my friends to buy their kids drums if, if they're-

    4. BE

      [laughs]

    5. WG

      ... if they're failing in our friendship. And I had a band, a grunge band, when I was like 14. We played up here. She was directly below us. It... There's no chance that it sounded good, and she loved it, like loved it. And I, a- a- and I'm not saying like that because I, I don't love when I hear some parents say, "Oh, my kid's so good at the every..." Like that, but it wasn't, that wasn't-

    6. BE

      It wasn't that

    7. WG

      ... the spirit of it. It, she just loved being-

    8. BE

      Yeah

    9. WG

      ... like able to be a part of this thing that I was doing.

    10. BE

      Sounds like she delighted in you.

    11. WG

      She, yeah, she did.

    12. BE

      You end up getting to this, you know, career all around hospitality, around care, around entertaining, around actually a lot of things that aren't simple that can be also exceptional.

    13. WG

      Mm.

    14. BE

      Right? So just take me on that journey. So this is some of your early years, and then what brought you into that career, or did it just seem like every step was the obvious next step?

  7. 11:00 – 12:08

    Falling in love with restaurants: belonging inside choreographed chaos

    1. WG

      No, I mean, so again, my dad worked in restaurants. And I mean, my dad and I are very, very, very close. Um, and so I just wanted to spend... It like, it, it, it didn't really matter what he did for a living. That would've been the thing that I wanted to do.

    2. BE

      Mm. Mm-hmm.

    3. WG

      And I would go to work with him on Saturdays, um, because he'd work Monday through Friday, long days, and Saturday he'd go and just like to the office and have a few hours. And sometimes I'd be in the office with him, other times he'd drop me off at one of the restaurants here in the city, and I'd help.

    4. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    5. WG

      Air quotes, "help."

    6. BE

      Yep.

    7. WG

      And I just fell in love with restaurants. I fell in love with like the choreographed chaos. Like the idea that every, every one of life's relationships was happening concurrently within the same four walls. But the fact that you'd go into the kitchen and there would be obsess- someone obsessing over food, the sommelier with wine, someone about graphic design, interior... Like no two days would ever be the same, and it seemed like these people were getting paid to make other people happy.

    8. BE

      Yeah.

  8. 12:08 – 15:14

    Intentionality from childhood: Cornell goals, elite training, and a turning point in fine dining

    1. WG

      And so when I, my dad w- He is nothing if not intentional and was very insistent on imbuing that trait in me. And so when I was... Like, he would take it too far, right? So when I was 12, I think we were, like, on our way to the airport from SeaWorld or something, and he's like, "Will, it's time to, uh, come up with your goals for life."

    2. BE

      [laughs]

    3. WG

      And I have been, uh, and I know this because he wrote them down and he gave them to me in my 20s.

    4. BE

      What were they?

    5. WG

      And it was, one, go to Cornell and study hospitality, two, open my own restaurant in New York City, and three, marry Cindy Crawford. Um-

    6. BE

      I mean-

    7. WG

      And I got, like, two out of three. And then the third, uh, I think I might-

    8. BE

      I mean, you did pretty well for yourself

    9. WG

      ... have done even better, you know?

    10. BE

      Let's be honest. [laughs]

    11. WG

      Um, and so it's all I ever wanted to do. So I did get into Cornell, and I, I did... Like, I, I worked... He, he really pushed me to work for the best restaurants. Um, so I worked for Drew Nieporent at Tribeca Grill. I worked for Wolfgang Puck at Spago. I did all that stuff. And then I graduated from Cornell, went to work for Danny Meyer.

    12. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    13. WG

      And I worked there for a couple years, but at this point I didn't wanna be in fine dining. I'd worked in fine dining, and I'd been, um, turned off by it.

    14. BE

      Hmm.

    15. WG

      I'd been turned off by the fact that at this stage, if you worked in a restaurant, you were just there to serve the chef. Like, it was all about the food.

    16. BE

      Hmm.

    17. WG

      And the way that hospitality was manifested w- had taken a backseat. And so I wanted to, my goal was to work at Shake Shack. And so Danny Meyer came to me as I was at Momofuku and he goes, "Hey, we're trying to do big things at Eleven Madison Park. I'd love for you to go there." I said, "No, I wanna go to Shake Shack." But my dad, one of the many lessons that I carry with me from him was, "If you work for a company and you want them to be there for you when, when you need them, you need to be there for them when they need you."

    18. BE

      Hmm.

    19. WG

      So the deal I made with Danny was that I would go to Eleven Madison for one year, and then I'd get to go run Shake Shack. And then in that year I just realized it didn't have to be the way that it was.

    20. BE

      Hmm.

    21. WG

      And in fact, in fine dining at that level, you could create magic for people at a level beyond what, uh, I think anyone had, had dreamt of.

    22. BE

      Yeah.

    23. WG

      And so a year later he came and said, "You ready to go to Shake Shack?" And I said, "No." Now granted, had I gone to run Shake Shack, I probably would own the building we're in right now.

    24. BE

      [laughs]

    25. WG

      But, uh, that was the best decision of my life, because what I got to do from that point forward, uh, was just the coolest thing ever.

    26. BE

      So s- tell me more about that. Tell everyone more about that. Like, your brand of hospitality, of taking care of people, the experience at being at a restaurant, what that means. Just jump off wherever.

  9. 15:14 – 16:41

    Defining “Unreasonable Hospitality”: relentless pursuit of people, not product

    1. WG

      Yeah. I mean, when, uh, when you look at the best restaurants in the world, uh, they're run by chefs more, uh, often than not.

    2. BE

      Yeah.

    3. WG

      And when you look at the best, best restaurants in the world, they at that point were 100% run by chefs, people who, gosh, they were unreasonable in pursuit of the food they served, their product. And relentless in pursuit of innovation. What new techniques could they develop? What new ingredients could they start cooking with? And each of them in their own way have influenced how restaurants around the world approach cooking.

    4. BE

      Hmm.

    5. WG

      Um, at a certain point, I was inspired enough by them, but cognizant of my own superpowers. And through those two things n- was able to pair them together such that we made the choice to be unreasonable, not in pursuit of product-

    6. BE

      Yeah

    7. WG

      ... but in pursuit of people.

    8. BE

      Yep.

    9. WG

      And relentless in pursuit of the one thing that will never, ever change, which is our human desire to feel seen, to feel cared for, to feel a sense of belonging, to feel genuinely welcomed. And it was years ago, I wrote unreasonable hospitality on a cocktail napkin, but th- that articulation became, like, our call to arms.

    10. BE

      Yeah. The human desire to feel seen.

    11. WG

      Hmm.

    12. BE

      I, I just think you and I have talked about this, but everyone doesn't think, "Oh, am I... Like, a restaurant, like, I'm going there to feel seen." But just say more about that. Like, what, how important that is.

  10. 16:41 – 19:50

    What it means to be seen: why small gestures outlast perfect execution

    1. WG

      Mm, my favorite quote about hospitality comes from Maya Angelou, and it's one most people have heard. Um, she said, "People will forget what you say, they will forget what you do, but they will never forget how you made them feel." Gosh, I believe that to be so very true. When I think back on the experiences that linger with me, it's not something that someone did-

    2. BE

      Hmm

    3. WG

      ... the little technical element of a meal or whatever kind of experience that I remember. It's a little or a big thing that someone did for me.

    4. BE

      Yep.

    5. WG

      Um, and I say a little or a big thing because it could be in a restaurant something as small as me being on a first date and the server noticed that we had just run out of things to talk about, so they came in to, like, lubricate the conversation a little bit. Or it could be a big thing, and I have plenty of stories of those that others have done for me. But I think it's just being seen for me, and obviously m- the cadence of this conversation having just talked about my mom-

    6. BE

      Yeah

    7. WG

      ... it means like, "Hey, you are an individual. You matter. This is not a, a one size fits all situation. I am here to deliver an experience that is specific to and special to you." And if you can take that idea and be as relentless and creative and intentional in pursuit of making people feel that-

    8. BE

      Yeah

    9. WG

      ... not only does it make other people feel extraordinary Not only does it make the deliverer of those things feel extraordinary, because I really do believe that hospitality is a selfish pleasure.

    10. BE

      Mm.

    11. WG

      But I came to understand that it was the greatest competitive advantage that we as a restaurant could have. And I now have come to believe it's the greatest competitive advantage that any business can have.

    12. BE

      How did you create a whole culture around that? Like, I'm just thinking about anyone listening, and well, eventually I wanna talk about how you do this in your home. But making other people feel seen, whether or not you work in restaurants, just this, we're saying it's kind of the greatest competitive advantage of an individual.

    13. WG

      Yeah.

    14. BE

      Right? I mean, that's what-

    15. WG

      100%.

    16. BE

      'Cause there's no greater feeling we have. You know, I remember, I remember being at a restaurant when I had this cough a- and the waitress came up. I was like, "Oh, she's gonna be mad," or I don't know, and I just couldn't stop coughing. And, and she just brought me this tray of like two cough drops.

    17. WG

      Yeah.

    18. BE

      It was like s- I just, I can rem-

    19. WG

      Mm-hmm

    20. BE

      ... I love that restaurant, by the way. I don't remember what I ate, right? I, but like-

    21. WG

      100%

    22. BE

      ... it doesn't matter.

    23. WG

      The cough drops are m- and by the way, they obsessed over every single dish they served you, guaranteed.

    24. BE

      Yes.

    25. WG

      There was a team of people working on every single plate of food.

    26. BE

      Yes. She wouldn't just have these in her pocket. Like, I don't even know where she got them.

    27. WG

      Wherever they came from. But that one simple gesture meant so much more to you than anything else that they did.

    28. BE

      That's exactly right. So this culture of, of hospitality, of helping people feel seen and cared for in this unreasonable way. So bring me to your house. This kind of culture of care, how do, how does that show up for you as a dad?

  11. 19:50 – 21:42

    Bringing it home: creating ‘magic’ through energy, creativity, and rituals

    1. WG

      One of the things I say often about hospitality, and I said this for years in my restaurants, but I, I believe it applies to anyone. I would always say to my team, "We have an opportunity, perhaps even a responsibility, to create our own little magical world in a world that needs more magic."

    2. BE

      Mm.

    3. WG

      I think about magic a lot as it pertains to, uh, to hospitality and caring and experiences, and one of my favorite quotes is by Teller of Penn & Teller. He said, "Sometimes magic is just being willing to invest more energy into an idea than anyone else would reasonably expect." I like that because it, it, it enforces this thing I believe in. None of the stuff I talk about is hard. It just requires being willing to work a little bit harder.

    4. BE

      Yeah.

    5. WG

      I think the, the biggest thing I think of in how I bring it home to my kids is just to try to create magic. Try to create little and big moments that feel magical. We had a magic show at The Nomad back in the day, and when I introduced it in the beginning, I talked about I love magic so much. And I do love-

    6. BE

      Mm-hmm

    7. WG

      ... like actual magic and magicians. Because these days w- and it's even more so now with AI, we know how everything is done, and there is this childlike wonder that comes from not understanding something.

    8. BE

      Yes.

    9. WG

      So my kids right now, like i- if their lives don't feel unbelievably magical now, what am I doing? And so my favorite thing to do as a dad, in addition to the things I, I just should be doing to care for them and to protect them-

    10. BE

      Yeah

    11. WG

      ... is to just find little and big ways to, to create magic.

  12. 21:42 – 27:40

    Parenting examples: scavenger-hunt Christmas, Tooth Fairy script, and “fancy cereal day”

    1. BE

      Like what?

    2. WG

      Okay, Christmas i- is a good example. Although my colleague and I, Brian Canlis, we've had all these conversations around how so many families are good at creating magic around the holidays, but it stops there.

    3. BE

      Hmm.

    4. WG

      Like, people go all out to-

    5. BE

      Yeah

    6. WG

      ... make magic in the holidays, and then like the rest of the year is just kind of boring.

    7. BE

      Like, blegh.

    8. WG

      Yeah, or seriously.

    9. BE

      [laughs]

    10. WG

      But like, so last year we watched the kids open all of their presents. And I mean, everyone's experienced this. You spend so much time trying to buy all these gifts that you think they're gonna love, and wrapping them, and setting them under the tree, and then it is over in like 30 minutes. And like, it's like, ugh, it felt so unfulfilling. And so this year I was like, "Okay, how do we extend that and make it magical?" So my kids are two and four at the time, so I just... And it didn't take me very long. I just created all these scavenger hunts for their gifts. I mean, for a two-year-old to look at a picture and then run to a different part of the house and see another pi- it felt like a magic trick. Um, we do something that Brian Canlis inspired me to do. The Tooth Fairy is, like, such an awesome opportunity for magic, and yet it's not that magical. Like, you talk about the Tooth Fairy a little bit. You put the tooth, there's a coin. So he started this thing with his kids where when they lose their teeth, a tooth, they have to go open a window and scream as loud as they can, "My name is blank. I just lost a tooth. I believe in magic."

    11. BE

      Mm.

    12. WG

      And they need to say it really loud so that the Tooth Fairy, wherever she is, hears them. And it, it just makes it more, I don't know, wonder-full. And I put a space between wonder and full with intention. Um, we try to do little things like that maybe aren't even... I wouldn't go so far as to describe them as magic, but my wife and I both work a lot. We travel a lot, but we are home on the weekends. And so Saturday morning is fancy cereal day. It's the only day they get to have sugary cereal, and pretty much every morning they wake up and they say, "Is it fancy cereal day?" They like the cereal, but what they love is the knowledge that when they're eating that fancy cereal, it means that for the next few days they're gonna spend their entire days with mom and dad.

    13. BE

      Yeah.

    14. WG

      And so I like, um-

    15. BE

      Ritual

    16. WG

      ... rituals.

    17. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    18. WG

      I love the rituals.

    19. BE

      And can I just name something that you're doing that I, it, maybe it's not magic, but it's definitely joy and ritual and in some ways branding? Like fancy cereal day.

    20. WG

      Yes.

    21. BE

      You just branded that-

    22. WG

      [laughs]

    23. BE

      ... for your kids, right?

    24. WG

      Yes.

    25. BE

      Like one day they will be, I don't know, 25, and someone will say the word fancy and cereal and they'll hear that together and they will conjure up-

    26. WG

      Yes

    27. BE

      ... like all of these Saturdays, and kids love that. 'Cause I, I think it feels like an inside joke to them, right?

    28. WG

      100%.

    29. BE

      And that feels magical to have. And you know, th- my youngest was in a stage a couple years ago of having a hard time going to bed, right? And it was always like, "Oh, one more this, one more this. I'm hungry. More water. My water bottle." And there's a night I just went in and I said, "Do you know about sip and fill?" He's like, "What?" I was like, "Sip and fill." He's like, "No, what is that?" You know? I was like, "Oh." [laughs]

    30. WG

      [laughs]

  13. 27:40 – 29:44

    Boundaries of care: when noticing everyone competes with caring for the closest ones

    1. BE

      Yeah. Ah, so good. Okay, question for you. I feel like all of our strengths that can work for us can work against us.

    2. WG

      Mm.

    3. BE

      Um, this extreme talent you have really to notice people, to see people, I've gotten a gift from you and you know, the most thoughtful-

    4. WG

      [laughs]

    5. BE

      ... best gift I've ever gotten from anyone.

    6. WG

      Oh, thank you.

    7. BE

      Does it, does it ever, does it ever work against you? D- does it deplete you ever? Are there times when, you know, you, you feel like you lose yourself in the process? It just, I don't know, does that resonate at all or-

    8. WG

      No, I, I-

    9. BE

      ... or not really?

    10. WG

      ... I understand the question. It, it doesn't deplete me. I, I, I find that some, um, some things I do are energizing and some things are energy depleting.

    11. BE

      Yeah.

    12. WG

      Like to run a great restaurant or I think a great business of any kind, I think it's equal parts focusing on excellence and hospitality. I really care about details. I derive pleasure out of executing at a very high level every single little detail, and yet as much as I do, that is depleting to me.

    13. BE

      Mm.

    14. WG

      The hospitality side, it, it always is energizing. Now, I will say that sometimes I can be so focused on trying to care for everyone in a room that maybe I'm not as good at caring for the few people that I really should be caring for.

    15. BE

      Mm.

    16. WG

      Like I can go somewhere with my wife and I wanna make sure everyone else feels comfortable and good, and then all of a sudden I'm like, "I'm not being a great husband right now." And so I'm trying to get better at caring less about some people so that I can care more about others.

    17. BE

      Yeah.

    18. WG

      The reality is, is you can't make everyone feel important at the same time.

  14. 29:44 – 35:53

    Letting kids struggle and the power of presence: heartbreak, holding, and ‘sick joy’

    1. BE

      In, in a business sense, like taking care of people, this really, really high expectation, excellence, right? I'm thinking about in your home, so much of what can be good for a kid is being so supported and having space to struggle, to mess up.

    2. WG

      Mm.

    3. BE

      Right? To, to not be excellent all the time-

    4. WG

      Yeah

    5. BE

      ... for your parent to actually get it wrong because in that moment you learn something about yourself. How does that show up in parenting for you?

    6. WG

      I mean, you know, my kids are so young, and so, and being good or not good at stuff, we haven't gotten there yet. Mm. At the age they are right now, I have not yet had the experience of watching them truly struggle. Um- And that's gonna be an entirely new game for me to start playing.

    7. BE

      Yeah.

    8. WG

      But I think it's, I think it's a part of it. Like, m- m- m- because of my mom. My dad was at work a lot. I didn't have anyone to helicopter me. I didn't have anyone to, like... My dad was there. Like, I remember I came home after suffering my first heartbreak when I was, like, 15, and my dad is a big, you know, manly, intense man. I did his voice earlier. He's, "Will," I mean, he hasn't got a... And he went over and he held me in his arms while I was crying for, like, two hours. Like, he knew when it was time for me to know that I was held in that relationship. But he also let me figure a bunch of stuff out.

    9. BE

      Maybe it's just my filling in the blanks, but I don't know why I'm thinking about your mom, like, being there for you with no words-

    10. WG

      Mm-hmm

    11. BE

      ... and just presence. Was that a version of what your dad did in that moment too?

    12. WG

      Yeah, I think so. I've never actually made that connection. Yeah, he just literally, I walked in and I'm just, I mean, you know, the first heartbreak. Like, I mean, just devastated, and I walked in. I'm sure it was, like, snot crying and, and he just walked up to me and he just picked me. He didn't even ask me why I was cry- like... So I wanna be the dad that shows up in those moments, but with intention, holds myself back from showing up so consistently in some of the smaller moments.

    13. BE

      A- and I think that's, when we talk about, like, feeling seen, feeling cared for, it is. Just, I mean, just... I feel like "just" isn't the right word, 'cause it makes it sound like it's easy, but it's just being there.

    14. WG

      Mm-hmm.

    15. BE

      Like, just being there, full attention, full presence.

    16. WG

      Yeah.

    17. BE

      Probably not saying much.

    18. WG

      Yeah.

    19. BE

      You know? No solutions, no lecture, no brilliant advice, just... And you said holding. I mean, I think that goes back to systems in a way, and being a container. That's kind of what we are for our kids, right? The systems around them and their hard moments. We're, we're all like an egg without a shell.

    20. WG

      Yeah. [laughs]

    21. BE

      We're like, "Be, just be my shell," you know?

    22. WG

      Yes. I mean, even my daughter now, like sometimes when she'll really hurt herself and she runs in the house crying, and I remember the first time, she, like, jumps into my arms and I'm holding her. And I'm like, "Hey, what, what happened?" And she's like, "I hurt my toe." And I was like, "Can I look at it?" And she's like, "No, no, no, no, no." She just wanted to be held.

    23. BE

      Yeah.

    24. WG

      She didn't want any help outside of feeling held, and now I've learned when she runs in, I'll just hold her, but I don't need to fix anything for her. I just need her to know that I'll be there to hold her when she needs to be held. Which, [laughs] again, back to the what is depleting and what is energizing, gosh, that's the best. Like, I don't want my kid to be hurt or to be sick, but the way they let me hold them-

    25. BE

      [laughs]

    26. WG

      ... when they are hurt or sick is literally one of my favorite things in the entire world.

    27. BE

      I- it's okay.

    28. WG

      [laughs]

    29. BE

      I- I have a little phrase for that. Like, because I, I think of it as sick joy. [laughs]

    30. WG

      Mm.

  15. 35:53 – 38:10

    Closing lessons: be seen, add magic, keep it simple—and the new series invitation

    1. BE

      I could talk to Will forever, and there are so many takeaways I'm going to have from our conversation, but there are three that feel pretty loud in my head right now, so I'm going to share them with you. Number one, I don't think I'll ever forget the way Will talked about his mom. Having her full attention, the way she looked at him with interest and wonder, [sighs] that will really stay with me. Number two, adding more magic. Making a moment with our kid a little more fun, adding a story. Those things I know can feel like, "Oh, do I have the energy for that?" But sometimes putting in the energy saves us a lot of energy for the rest of the day. And number three, keeping it simple. So often, the moments we all remember are the moments someone was just there for us. They held us, sat next to us, put their hand on our back, and said nothing. I'm going to remind myself that that is more than enough during my kid's next hard moment, which will probably be later today. Before we go, [sighs] I wanna zoom out for a moment. This is part of a new series that we're calling How We're Raised. Every couple of weeks, we'll feature another conversation like this, about how our upbringing shapes who we become. If this format resonated with you, let us know. I love when our listeners help shape what we do next in the podcast, and if there's something you'd love to hear in this series, or someone whose story you're curious about, please tell us. You can reach us at podcast@goodinside.com. Now, let's end the way we always do. That won't change. Place your feet on the ground and a hand on your heart, and let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 38:11

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