Navigating the Parent-Grandparent Dynamic

1. 0:00 – 1:36

   Why the parent–grandparent dynamic feels so loaded (and why it matters more than ever)

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:00

      So National Grandparent Day is coming up, and this is the perfect time to jump into so many questions that I hear from parents all the time. What do I do when my parent criticizes me? What do I do with all the feelings I have toward my parent about all the things I know now kids need and I didn't get? How involved should my parents be? Why am I still so desperate for my own parents' approval? And from the grandparent end, I get questions. How can I be involved in my kid's life in a way that actually feels good for the family? Why is my kid so activated when I make one tiny comment about something I might do differently? How can I be very involved in my kid's life and my grandkid, but still respect the fact that I'm getting older and maybe can't do the things I used to be able to do? These are all the questions we're going to get into, and this is the most amazing episode for both parents to listen to and grandparents to listen to, maybe even talk about. Grandparents are more involved in their grandkids' lives than ever. A recent survey showed that 60% of grandmothers have provided childcare for a grandkid, and 40% see a grandkid every week. When we talk about raising kids, we cannot leave out the dynamic with grandparents because it is so powerful in a kid's life and it can have a lot of different impacts on our life as well. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. We'll be back right after this. We'll start off with some questions from parents.

2. 1:36 – 5:20

   Resentment when your harsh parent becomes a gentle grandparent

   1. SPSpeaker1:36

      Hi, Dr. Becky. My mom was really tough on me growing up, but now she's so sweet to my kids. I know I should be happy about that, but I feel kind of resentful. What do I do with that?

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy1:47

      I- I just wanna start by saying thank you for naming what so many parents feel, and I think it's brave to name it, and I actually think it might, for someone listening, be the first time they realize, "Wait, maybe that is what I feel. I wasn't stopping myself from naming it. I didn't even know that that's what it is." I see my parent who was so harsh with me. I feel like there was no emotional connection. Everything was, "Go to your room. We don't do that in this family. Pull up your bootstraps. Stop being a pain." And now I see that same human sitting down with my child. "Oh, you feel sad that I opened your string cheese for you. You wish you could have a new one." And I'm like, "What the actual..." This makes sense. This might sound so insanely obvious, but it strikes me as important every time I think about it. I have the same body today as an adult that I had since I was born. In this body is every memory from difficult moments from my childhood, from something that happened before I could even verbally remember it, from feeling left out in third grade. Maybe we could talk about that later. That's very real. A- all of that lives in here. And so when I'm in my adult life now, and I have a situation now as an adult, my body doesn't just respond to it based on this current moment. It kind of scans itself, and it's like, "What do I know about being left out? What do I know about emotional safety? What do I know about connectedness and calm presence through a hard moment?" And if my body knows I never had that, I always craved that as a kid because every child craves that, and then you watch it happen with the same person you desperately needed it from and never got it from and likely have never talked about that with. I have a hard time imagining any parent is just sitting there thinking, "I am just so happy about this situation. I have just resolved all my own feelings about never having that, and I have watched my parent give it to my child, and I am perfectly at peace." That is not how the human body works. We are actually too smart. We encode too much. And honestly, the fact that you feel resentful, this might be surprising, I think it says something good about you. Because what it tells me is you have somehow been able to hold on to the fact that you also have a right and have a desire for emotional connectedness in hard, tricky moments. If in your childhood that had somehow been taken out of you, and you developed a sense of self where you realized, "Not only did I not get that, but you know what? I don't need it. I don't deserve it. I don't want it," you wouldn't feel resentment. We never resent things we don't want for ourselves. We never resent something we don't think we deserve. So I just wanna start by saying, might sound odd, but I would say to yourself, "You know what? One of the things this is telling me is I believe I have the right to want emotionally supportive people around me in my hard moments. And even if that leads to pain, thank goodness, from a self-worth perspective, that I still think I deserve that."

3. 5:20 – 6:20

   AVP: acknowledge, validate, permit—how to metabolize the feeling before “fixing” it

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:20

      We can't learn to manage feelings we don't believe we're supposed to have. We can't learn to manage feelings we think are wrong, and we can't learn to manage feelings that we tell ourselves are immature. A feeling is a force, and if the message we send it is bad, wrong, not supposed to, I'm sorry, it's like saying that to a toddler. They get louder. They find very creative ways to get our attention. So note the feeling, accept the feeling, and go that level deeper. Give yourself credit for what it probably means to be having that feeling. That is actually probably going to help you manage the feeling more than you imagine, 'cause I know you're probably thinking, "Okay, but then what? But then what do I do?" And we can get to that, but actually just noticing our feeling, giving ourselves permission, telling ourselves a story about why it makes sense, I call that AVP, acknowledge, validate, permit, is kind of 90% of managing an emotion. After that, a lot of

4. 6:20 – 7:51

   Should you confront your parent? Share for you—not to control their response

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:20

      people ask me, "Should I talk to my mom? Should I talk to my dad?" I'm a realist, okay? [laughs] And that doesn't mean I don't think you should talk to your parent. The number one thing I would say is you know what you need most and you know your own parent most. If there's a way to express this, it has to be from a place of you feeling like you have the need to share your experience, not you have the need to get a certain response from the other person. When we have any conversation with someone, "Hey, look, I have to be honest. It's kind of hard in a way when I watch you be such an amazing grandparent because it makes me think about, I think what I needed and didn't get," and if that moment is only gonna feel good if my parent says, "I'm glad you're talking to me about this. I hear you. You're not crazy," then I am leaving myself in an extraordinarily vulnerable position. If I feel truly like I have to say that and I know I have the right to, and I've kind of done emotional work to feel like that's my story that needs to be said for my own sake and I am prepared for a range of responses from my own parent who, yes, might be able to be calm and supportive with my kid, but might feel too triggered or feels like they're saying I'm a bad parent or I mess them all up to be able to give me that experience in the moment, then I would say do not have that conversation yet [sniffs] until you have a little bit more certainty in your own story and your own need. The last thing I wanna

5. 7:51 – 9:14

   Re-parenting yourself: giving yourself what you never got

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:51

      say is one of the best parts of being an adult in my mind, and what really differentiates us from our kids, is we can start to give ourselves the things we never got in our childhood but always needed now. I like to say it how it is. Will doing that for yourself ever feel as good as like an amazing repair moment with your parent, the person you might have needed things from? No. I, I, I just think no. Someone might say, "I just think it rarely does." It would feel amazing for your parent to say, " [sighs] The way I am with you, the way I am with your kid is so different from how I am with you, and I wanna be a different parent to you, and I wanna repair." If that's gonna feel like a 10 out of 10, "Oh, I needed to hear that," but saying nothing to yourself and not getting that repair moment feels like a zero out of 10, there's a lot in between. And so I wonder what it would be like to, yes, have a mini moment of re-parenting yourself, right? Which isn't actually even about blaming your parent. It's about the adult part of you connecting with the child part of you to speak to the needs that weren't met and to start to meet some of them.

6. 9:14 – 10:57

   Grandparents ignore rules: start by honoring how infuriating it is

   1. SPSpeaker9:14

      We have pretty firm rules. Uh, no sweets before lunch, bedtime routines, that kind of thing, but the grandparents constantly ignore them. Uh, what should I do?

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:26

      Okay, first of all, and maybe this isn't even productive, but maybe it is, I just wanna say, how annoying. How annoying. Let's just stay in that for even a little longer. My guess is you've come up with your rules because you care about them. You've thought about them. My guess is you're not someone who has a million rules about a million things, and maybe this is something you really care about for a million different reasons. It doesn't matter. You're the pilot of your plane, and this feels important, and you've set rules, and you wanna follow them, and then another very important adult in your life comes in, doesn't respect them. How annoying. How infuriating. So I just want to join you in that and let you stay in that before we all go to, "Maybe I'm overreacting," or, "What should I say to my parent?" Or, "What does this mean about our relationship?" We all jump to the thing, and it's actually unhelpful. We should let ourselves a little bit just simmer in that feeling, and I wanna simmer in it with you 'cause I would find that really annoying as well. And because as adults we try to be effective and not just right, which is so hard for me, it's why I talk about it a lot, it's 'cause I often choose right over effective, but I'm working on it, let's think about what to do. There's only a few courses of action here. And actually, before we think about it, what to do, let me add one more level of depth. When your parent or maybe it's your in-laws

7. 10:57 – 12:58

   Decode the hidden message behind boundary-breaking (the trigger is the clue)

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:57

      is taking care of your kid, and you look in the trash and you're like, "Wow, there are 37 Kit Kat wrappers," and nothing against Kit Kat, okay, whatever it is, I want you to take a moment and think about what it feels like, the Kit Kat wrappers or that grandparent saying to you. And I, I know the first reaction, saying to me, first of all, Kit Kat wrappers don't speak, and by the time I'm upset, that person is gone. I know that. But the reason anything in the world deeply upsets us and kind of triggers us is 'cause we hear some deeper message in the moment, and it doesn't mean that's our fault, but understanding that is actually your superpower, so you can respond from a place of groundedness and from a place of your own values instead of from a place of reactivity. For example, and I want you to really let your mind wander to something that doesn't even make sense. My private practice, when people say to me, "Look, it feels like it's saying this, but it doesn't even make sense," I'm like, "Yes. I love that it doesn't make sense. We're onto something. Give it to me." Okay? It could be, "I feel like they're saying I'm not a good parent." I feel like they're saying they don't respect me. I feel like they're saying, "I think your rules are stupid." It feels like they're saying, "I don't think you're raising your kids in the right way." It feels like they're saying, "I think you're really controlling, and it is now my job to do something different with your kids because you can't get out of your own way." Okay. One of those might hit. Maybe none of them hit. But now we're talking about the thing. It deeply upsets us because it's not just some guideline, but we feel like it's a communication about our value, about our effectiveness, about our worthiness as a parent, about the type of kid we're raising, about something big. And so I don't know exactly what it might mean to you, but I promise you, you can't figure out what to do in an effective way if you don't reflect on something around

8. 12:58 – 16:43

   Two paths: do nothing (strategically) or set a boundary as teammates

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:58

      the somewhat illogical thing it feels like this boundary break represents to you. That would be a step I would hope you would take. Now, what to do next? There's only a couple things to do, and one of them might surprise you. I'm gonna say it first so I can then recover with the thing you might want me to say. You do nothing. That is one thing. Doing nothing is the most underestimated parenting strategy in terms of with our kids, with a partner, with in-laws. Doing nothing doesn't mean you're passive. Doing nothing doesn't mean you're, I don't know, letting someone pull the wool over your eyes, if that's even a phrase, something like that. Doing nothing just means this is not where I'm gonna put my energy. This is not worth kind of the battle. I am choosing from a place of awareness, which goes back to understanding the trigger, and strength to just not let this take over. And the reason I wanna say that is 'cause I- I've worked with so many parents where they end up choosing to do nothing. No, sometimes doing something is important. What they end up saying to me is, "Dr. Becky, is after I've really more deeply understood, like, what this meant, I've realized I can be a parent who has these rules about candy and tolerate the moments that the in-laws break that rule. That doesn't mean anymore to me that I'm doing it wrong. It doesn't mean I have to change my rules. I didn't even realize how often I was looking for my in-laws' approval or them to do something the same way I did, almost as a way of feeling like I was justified in making the decision in the first place. And since I've kind of gained a little more self-confidence, is it weird that that doesn't bother me as much?" No, that's not weird. That's exactly right. Now, there's another lane, too. We all have guidelines that are non-negotiables, and only you know what those are. Someone else might say, "Oh, the candies are non-negotiable? That's ridiculous." I would never say that to you. I would say you know your family best. You know what really matters, and after some exploration, if this feels really important and it's intolerable for someone else to break it for any given reason, it is your right to have that conversation. The one piece of guidance I would give you is to please approach that other adult like you're teammates, not enemies. Now, I know what you're thinking, "But they're breaking my boundaries, so we are enemies." If you approach someone else like they're your enemy, they will only become defensive, because we all become defensive when we're looked at as an antagonist and as a bad person. We feel like we have to defend some silly decision, like giving a kid 37 Kit Kats, because it's my way now of saying, "Hey, you're saying I'm a bad grandma, or you're saying I don't love my kid. You say I don't know what I'm doing." We don't wanna enter into that conversation. One way you can avoid that defensiveness is just being a little more direct and vulnerable, which is not possible if we have not done that step two of understanding ourselves. Might sound more like this: "Hey, I wanna talk to you about something that we seem to do a little differently, but I'm talking to you from a place of us being on the same team, both being very important people, obviously, in this kid's life, and this is just something that's important to me, and I would really just love your cooperation around." I know if someone said that to me, before they even say the what, I'm like, "Okay, we're connected. This person isn't attacking me." Whatever they're about to say, there's no guarantee I'm gonna respond in a good way, but I promise you the likelihood has skyrocketed.

   2. SPSpeaker16:30

      My in-laws are always coming over unprompted and always want to help, but usually in ways we just don't really need. [sighs] What do I do? How do I navigate this without offending them?

9. 16:43 – 18:45

   Unannounced visits and “help” that isn’t helpful: stop trying to prevent offense

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:43

      So the first thing I wanna respond to is the last part of the question, because I think it's actually a bigger point. Whenever I hear a question like this, "How do I navigate this without offending them?" it's actually the same sentence structure as this: "How do I tell my kid no without them having a tantrum?" "How do I set a boundary with my teen without them becoming upset?" "How do I tell this person I can't be on that PTA committee without them thinking poorly of me?" How can I do X without Y, where the Y has to do with someone else's emotional reaction, is an unwinnable problem, and the reason we get so stuck in it, and we spiral, and we think, "Why can't I figure this out?" Whenever people say, "Dr. Becky, how do I navigate this conversation with my parent, with my in-law, without them becoming offended?" Uh, it might be relieving. What I say is, "I don't know." But, but I actually just think we need to ask a different question. If you feel really stuck, and you're like, "I can't figure out how to answer my question," I hope this is relieving and confidence-giving to tell you the answer isn't that you're missing something. The answer is you're asking the wrong question. That's amazing. Oh, I could just ask a different question. What question becomes more answerable? How can I navigate this and tolerate the fact that they might be upset with me? How can I navigate this in a way where I'm speaking in a way that's equally as truthful for me as it is as respectful to the other person? How can I say something that feels really important and try my best to cope with the potential fallout. These are all answerable questions because they don't depend essentially on controlling someone else's emotional response, which I promise you is just not the business you want to be in. Your in-laws are stopping by and unannounced. They want to help, but in very unhelpful ways. Okay, now we have a new question, so we're going to answer that new question. How can I talk to them about this in a way that has the best chance of a good response, in a way that I feel proud of, in a way that feels true

10. 18:45 – 22:50

    Set the stage: ‘Team Luna’ + be specific about what help you actually want

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:45

       and respectful? Let's enter into that. First step, remember that you and your in-laws are on the same team. You and your parents are on the same team. And I promise you, I know that narrative, but we're not. They're so annoying, but they're so rude. We cannot have an effective conversation with anyone when we see them as part of enemy territory. So until you can feel like there's some common ground, and I have a feeling there is, and I think the common ground is you both love the heck out of this little kid, right? Now, how you express that, what you want to do, all could be different. But let's pretend your kid's name is Luna. You're both Team Luna. You really are. That's a beautiful way to start. Hey, I want to have a conversation about a few things, and I want to start by saying we're both Team Luna. I see the way you love her so much. I know that you want to be involved. I know it's so special for Luna to have involved parents and involved grandparents. It's such an amazing thing. And so the reason I even want to have this conversation is because I just want that to continue being true for everyone over the next number of years. And I think it requires us talking about things that might need to shift here or there because we're both Team Luna and we want things to continue feeling as good as possible. I call that kind of setting the stage. We too often, and part of this is because this is not the stuff that's taught in high school or college, right? We're taught things that have very little applicability to adult life. Figuring out how to get on the same team with someone, setting the stage for a productive conversation is so important. You can't just jump into a conversation that becomes productive. You have to set the stage. It's like kind of warming up the other person so they can hear your words in a way that's productive instead of what usually happens when you jump in is we all hear someone else's words through our insecurities and defenses. And then we're not even having a conversation. We're just kind of in a power struggle. So what would you say after that? Start with one thing, the stopping by or the way that they help. Let's say it's the way that they help. Before this conversation, it's really important for you to seek clarity on what type of help would actually be helpful to you. It's probably not on the other person to know. Let's say every time, I don't know, I hear this a lot, a grandparent comes over, they're playing, I don't know, with the baby and you're unloading the dishwasher and folding laundry and like running out to some store to do errands. And you're thinking, hold on a second. Maybe I'm spending a lot of time away from my baby. I actually want help to do those things so I can be with my baby sometimes. That's just one example. Now, has anyone ever been successful in saying to someone else, I know the way you want to help is doing X. I want you to do Y. So I would like you to do 100% Y and 0% X. No, that's just never been effective in any world. But let's say this is the example. Hey, you are so helpful when you come over in so many ways. And one of the things I've realized is it's become hard for me to spend the right amount of time with Luna. And I would love to see if some of the time when you come over, you're willing to spend some time unloading my dishwasher, folding my laundry, running an errand on the way, because then I can get some time with Luna and then you can get some time with Luna. And then I think we are in a situation that hopefully would feel better for me and would feel better for the whole Luna team. People are going to respond a lot better to that than, look, when you come over, you don't do anything helpful. Look, do you think that's actually what I want? Or a lot of us, because it's been hard to really speak up for our wants in a clear way, it just comes out in passive aggressive ways, right? We kind of make these comments or we get really upset, a small thing when really we haven't gotten to the core. So let's sum this up, right? All

11. 22:50 – 23:53

    Practice the conflict skill: scripts, mirrors, and expecting a learning curve

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:50

       of these things are annoying, coming over unexpected, not understanding what you really want, right? We all wish there was a magical world where that could be easier and there often isn't. Take a little time to get clear on what it is that you want. And as you do that, it actually might be easier to also start with that kind of same team perspective to set the foundation for a productive conversation. And if that's a kind of conversation you've never had, I would also tell you very practically, and that's going to sound silly, practice in front of a mirror, write down a script of what you want to say, read it saying, look, I wanted to get these words right. And so it was better if I read it because if not, I'm going to end up saying this in a way I don't intend. Think about it as a muscle you're building, how to navigate conflict in a way I feel proud of. If that's not a muscle you've built, it's really important to practice and also to expect that you're going to have a learning curve, not get it right the first time, and you can go from there.

12. 23:53 – 30:22

    Talking to kids about a grandparent’s decline: process yourself, then ‘name what’s true’

    1. SPSpeaker23:53

       Hey, Dr. Becky, one of my parents is sick. They're really declining physically, mentally, and obviously it's really hard on me. It's also confusing for my kids. I'm not sure how to talk to them about what's happening. I don't know all the answers and I just find it really stressful. So I guess I'm just wondering, how can I talk to my kids about my parent being really sick?

    2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:21

       So first, I just wanna say to you that's, that's so hard. I think it's something we don't talk about enough. In the years when we're raising young children and they take so much emotional, physical, psychological, spiritual energy from us, they're often the exact same years when our parents are declining, and that takes the exact same type of energy. And so if we wonder, "Why am I burned out? Why am I not taking care of myself?" Well, one of those factors is enough to feel overwhelming, and there's often a period where we're dealing with both. And I just wanna say that's so real and so taxing. And so I think step one is naming that and honoring that. I, I, I actually wanna sink into that a little bit with you. What a hard stage in my life. Yes, I wanna figure out how to talk to my kid about my declining parent, but let me put that off for a second. How do I talk to myself about the fact that I have a declining parent? I'm trying to parent my kid in a time when my own parent needs more care and attention. I have worries about what's gonna happen next. There's uncertainty. There's health concerns. I feel like I'm kind of losing the parent I've always had. Conversations aren't the same. They can't do things in the same way. They can't rally. Their physical kind of, uh, well-being isn't what it used to be. They're not as spry. I kinda thought I'd have a parent who could take care of my kid so I could, I don't know, go do something for myself for two hours. I feel like that's slipping away, and also I'm just sad. It feels like I can't connect with my parent maybe in the same way. That type of loss is very real. Loss isn't just when someone dies. Loss is when a very meaningful relationship, a very stable relationship, starts to shift and things that you've relied on to be true start changing before your eyes in a moment when you're trying to be this sturdy, stable pilot for your own kid. That, that's a lot. And naming that and the compassion around that and telling yourself that it makes sense that you have your own emotions around it, I, I just can't overemphasize how important that is, and it's something I would tell you you can luxuriate in. Tell yourself again after you listen to this. Tell yourself tomorrow. Tell yourself the next day. It's really important to connect to yourself in that way. I also happen to think it would be really hard to talk to my kid about a declining grandparent if I hadn't been kind of doing that emotional processing myself. I'm gonna end up saying something in a more extreme way. I'm gonna end up minimizing something because I don't wanna face something. I'm gonna end up crying with my kid. And I'm not saying crying is wrong. Tears can be totally fine. We can name them, but the tears won't come from that. The tears will come from me managing this duality of, like, trying to deny it to myself and trying to talk to it, about it to my kid. That's too much. So that step's really important. Then I think you wanna just be as honest as possible with your kid, and, like, the language I always think to myself I find a grounding is just name what's true. Name what's true without making so much more out of it, but just name in a simple way what's true. It could be a million things. "You might notice Grandma asks you a question and listens and then asks the same question a minute later. Have you noticed that? That's something that can happen to some people as they're older where they can't remember things in the same way." Hard stop. I don't know. My kid might ask me questions. My kid might have a feeling about it. My kid might seem concerned, and, you know, I can kind of sense they're wondering if that's me. "I'm not having that happen right now, but that is happening to Grandma. We can keep talking about it." You can kind of follow the thread. Could be something different than that. "Remember when we all went to mini golf together last year when we visited, you know, Nana and Papa? And this year Papa stayed back. You know, Papa would love to play mini golf, and he would love to play it with you, and his body just isn't as strong as it used to be. Have you noticed that?" Again, follow the thread. So I think big picture, and this is almost something unrelated to grandparents or decline, I find it really important to help my kid feel confident in knowing the things I perceive in the environment are real, like I am noticing things. And I think in the name of protection, we undo that for kids. Kids notice all the time Pop-Pop is not playing mini golf. Pop-Pop isn't really getting up from the couch. I'm like, "No, he's great. Yeah, he's great. He's so good. He's so good. He just doesn't like mini golf anymore." What that really does to my kid is my kid thinks, "Oh, I thought I noticed a difference. I guess I was wrong. Maybe I shouldn't trust the things I perceive." So in the name of protection, we actually undo a lot of confidence and resilience. Kids can handle hard things when they're delivered from a trusted, loving adult, and I know you are that trusted, loving adult. So start by talking to yourself. Start by naming what's true to your kid in a small way, and then trust that you'll be able to take it from there. Now let's get some questions from grandparents

13. 30:22 – 35:21

    Grandparents who feel dismissed: why advice triggers and how to support instead

    1. SPSpeaker30:22

       I try to be helpful and share advice, but my adult children are always short with me and seem annoyed. I just want to help. I raised all three of my kids. I obviously have learned a thing or two. What am I supposed to do? Just stay silent all the time?

    2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:44

       So I, I just wanna start by saying it's amazing that you're so involved in your kids' life, that you are in the details enough. Like, you have ideas about the kids, and you love your grandkids, and you want the best for them. That tells me you're an active, involved grandparent. So let's just start by naming that and giving yourself credit. Okay, let's shift now to the heart, I think, of what you're asking. Why is it that when I say something that seems simple, my child reacts in this huge way? All I was saying is you might wanna handle dinner a little differently. All I was saying is it doesn't seem like you really like soccer. You should really try a different sport instead. Like, why is it such a big deal? Let's break this down. When we communicate to someone, there are words we say on the surface, and there is meaning we hear underneath. Now, here's what's interesting. Sometimes the word someone says on the surface to me and the meaning I hear isn't true. Someone wasn't telling me, "I think you're a bad parent," but somehow when I hear them make a suggestion, it feels to me like they're saying, "You don't know what you're doing. I know better than you. You are making mistakes. You are not handling this right. Someone would have done this better and differently." Now, I know what you're saying. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just making a suggestion about dinner. Holy moly. We have history. I have history with my parents. Your kid has history with you. And no matter how old we get, on some level, we want our parents' approval. We want them to think we're the most amazing person in the world, and we really want that about things that really matter to us, and there's not much that matters to kids as much as their parenting and their own kids. And so I just want you, whether you believe you're saying it or not, it doesn't matter, I want you to put that to the side. I want you to entertain this idea that your words are different than what your child hears. And I want you to entertain probably a harder idea. That doesn't mean it's your child's fault. That also doesn't mean it's your fault. Fault is just not a useful concept. What I just wanna put in a vacuum is, huh, the words I say to my child might not be what my child hears. Almost always, when parents are triggered by grandparents, what they're saying in those moments is just, "I just want more support. I actually don't want so many opinions. I'm sensitive to when you give me advice because it feels like you're judging something much bigger than the single moment." What does that mean very practically then as a next step? Could be in a couple things. Number one, and I feel like you're not gonna like to hear this, but I'm gonna say it anyway because I like to say things that I think are true, advise less. I'm just gonna say it. It's always good advice. Advise less. I know there's an irony. I'm giving advice and saying advice should be given less often. But if you want to have impact in moments that really matter, we really get in our own way by peppering advice all the time, which almost makes someone less able to take it in and triggered more easily, which can be really counterproductive in the moments that really matter. So I think about that. Do I really need to say something about dinner? Do I really need to say something about sport? Start there, and can I take whatever level of advice and kind of comments and just bring it down a few notches? That's one thing. Number two, start noticing more often the positive stuff your kid is doing as a parent. Could sound like this: "I notice how you're able to stay calm when he's having a meltdown. That was always really hard for me. I can tell you're working at that, and that's amazing. I love the way you speak so honestly to your kids about things. That's really hard for a lot of parents about tricky topics, but when your kids ask you questions, you really level with them. That's amazing." Something more general: "You're doing so much. Parenting is so hard. It really is. And I just see how much you're doing. There's so many logistics. There's so many errands. There's so much physical stuff. There's so much emotional stuff. You're handling so much. It's awesome." What are you doing? You're not

14. 35:21 – 37:15

    When you must give feedback: contract for it and keep the ‘same team’ frame

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:21

       only building connection with your kid, but you're building up their bank also of feeling like a good parent, which also means they're gonna be less triggered in the moments that you do wanna share something that's hard to hear. Now let's get to that. The most important thing when you are giving feedback or advice that, again, you think meets that bar and is super important, is that you try to stay on the same team. As soon as it feels like you're adversaries and it's criticism, nobody responds well to that, not from the person they want approval from the most. We get defensive. So I would start those conversations like this. "First of all, I just wanna say I think you're an amazing parent, and I think you're raising great kids, and I also know raising kids today is so different than it was when I was raising kids. The world is different, and I wanna name that." And then the next part, which you might not like to hear, but I think is important. "There's something I've noticed that I wanted to share with you. I promise you it comes from a place of support, not criticism, but I wanted to know- if now is a good time to talk about it. There's actually a really important thing in feedback. It's important in a lot of work cultures. Contract for feedback. Your kid is in the middle of soccer tryout season, and another kid is having a meltdown, and another kid is not napping anymore, and all of a sudden their parent is visiting, and they hear something. They're, uh, they're just up to here on their frustration. It doesn't even matter if they're trying to be defensive. It's not the moment. And you might be surprised at how someone might say, "Oh, well, thank you for asking me. It's not a good time. But yeah, let's do that another time." That can really, really save a relationship and kind of make that feedback more effective.

15. 37:15 – 39:42

    Grandparents who can’t say no: replacing guilt with honest boundaries and connection

    1. SPSpeaker37:15

       "I struggle with saying no. I wanna help, but I can also get tired or overwhelmed or just have other things I need to do. Still, I feel so guilty, like I'm letting someone down. How do I stop being everyone's go-to?"

    2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy37:33

       Ugh, I hear this, and this is some old stuff, right? So many of us were raised to feel like our worth is giving and giving and doing for everyone else and anticipating the needs, and then we get burned out, we get overwhelmed, we get resentful, we just get depleted, we get sick. I mean, there's so many things. So what I would do is I would actually share some of the words you shared with me with your kid. "Being a grandparent and being an involved grandparent is so important, and I wanna be there for you, and I wanna take that last-minute request. Sure, I'll do that errand. Sure, I'll come over. Yes, I can be there every Tuesday, whatever it is. That honestly feels important. I wanna give that to you. I wanna give that for myself, and I've noticed a pattern. There are some moments where I just need a little bit of rest, and it's hard for me to say no. It's something I'm working on because I actually believe the way I can show up as the most involved parent for you and grandparent for the kids over time is this balance of really being there and also trying to pay attention to the moments I, in theory, need to say no to you. But really what it is, I need to say yes to some need I just have for myself. So I'm gonna try to do that a little more often here and there. I want you to still feel the right to ask me things. I want you to feel like you can do that, and I will just work on being more honest if there's moments when it's something I can't do. How does that sound?" Now, the reason I love this is because I think it could bridge an amazing conversation with your kid. Are you like that too? Do you sometimes say yes to others because you're just so worried about disappointing them, or you're worried they won't come back to you the next time? Or I don't know, you feel like, kind of like they're only gonna like you if you keep saying yes? What an amazing conversation to have intergenerationally. Maybe you end up together saying, "Honestly, we can both kind of be like that. Can we cheer each other on? Can we kind of work on this together? What are the small boundaries we can set?" And all of a sudden, instead of this being something you're worried about, it, it actually becomes this kind of joint project that brings you and your kid closer.

16. 39:42 – 46:29

    When a grandparent feels judged by modern parenting: holding ‘two things are true’

    1. SPSpeaker39:42

       "Hi, Dr. Becky. My daughter is all about being intentional and doing things differently with her kids, which okay, is fine. I get it. But every time I'm around her parenting, it's like she's making a statement like, 'See? This is how it should've been done.' She's never said that directly, but honestly, it kind of feels like a slap in the face. Is this her way of telling me I messed up?"

    2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy40:18

       So I, I think you're onto something here, and I think what you're onto is just a thread I wanna pull 'cause I think we're not quite there yet, but we're really close to something really deep and really important and really transformational. I think it is so hard to watch your kid parent differently and try to hold onto the idea of my kid's doing the best they can with the resources they have in the world they live in, and I was doing the best I could with the resources I had in the world I lived in. That's a really hard two things are true to hold onto. And what you're pointing to, in some ways, is what I would call a collapse of two things are true. One thing is true. Okay, my kid's not really punishing. They're kind of holding this boundary and staying with the kid. I definitely send my kid to their room all the time. I feel like this is my kid's way of saying, "You're a horrible parent, and you messed me up, and I'm not gonna do that to my kid." One thing is true. My kid is doing something differently, and that's a direct communication to me criticizing what I did. Watch two things are true. My kid is doing what my kid feels is best. I believe I was doing what I thought was best. It's really interesting. These are two very different parenting styles on the surface, but actually something remarkably identical on the inside, which is the most real thing we have. I know every single parent is doing the best they can with the resources they have in the context of the world they're living in. I believe that for you, and I believe that for your kid. And I wonder if talking about it in that way would actually help you filter your kid's parenting in, in a way that actually feels very aligned with what you're doing as a parent, even though it looks very different. What would that sound like? "Hey, look, one thing I wanna say to you is I've noticed you parent in a very different way than I did, and I think you might be expecting a criticism to come. It's not. You know, I heard this thing on a podcast, and I think it's true." I think I was doing the best with the resources I had in the world I lived in. I think you're doing the best you can with the resources you have in the world you lived in, and that might look very different on the surface, even though I have a feeling when we were both kind of in the thick of it, we were probably operating with those same principles. Now, you wanna really go for the gold, I think you can say the following: "It's okay if you have feelings about the way I parented, and if you ever wanted to talk to me about that, I will try my best to hear it as feedback and as stories you wanna share so we can be closer, not as criticism and something I need to vehemently defend." I think this is so powerful for so many parents I talk with. They kind of know on some level, "My parent grew up in a different time. My parent was parented in a different way. The world was different. Yeah, some things didn't feel good in my childhood. I wish I had a little more emotional support. I wish I felt like I could talk to my parent about more things without fearing kind of disappointing them or getting punished, and I had to figure out things on my own." But actually, I think the thing that feels so healing for so many people in that generation is just the opportunity to share that story and for another parent to hold it. Now, how can a parent hold it? How can you hold that story? Ironically, it goes back to the first thing. If you are able to really believe, "I was doing the best I could with the resources I had in the world I lived in," and at the same time, "It might not have felt good to my kid," if you can hold those two things as true, you will become more able to have those moments with your kid where it doesn't feel like it's an assault against you. It actually hears, like, a story that's important to them that you've never heard. And when we hear stories we've never heard from people that are important to us and we're able to hold it instead of defend against it, our relationship with those people really deepens. Now, I don't wanna pretend that I have all the answers to managing the important and messy dynamics between grandparents, parents, kids. Human relationships are so tricky, and when we think about a grandparent's needs, a parent's needs, a kid's needs, there's a lot of needs going on, and no family has figured it out perfectly, I promise. I just hope this podcast leads to a deeper understanding of some dynamic, a new framework for seeing something. Maybe you and your parent, maybe you and your adult kid both just decide to listen to this episode and talk about it, and that leads to a deepening. Now, if this episode and any other has resonated with you, please take a moment to rate and review. It really, really matters, and I read every single thing you write. Let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground [exhales] and a hand on your heart, and just remind yourself, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon. [outro music]

Episode duration: 46:30