Raising Confident Girls: What Today's Girls Are Up Against

1. 0:00 – 2:50

   Meredith Walker’s teen years: trying on identities and surviving all-girls middle school

   1. SHDr. Sheryl0:00

      Today on The In Between Years, I'm joined by Meredith Walker, producer, writer, media executive, and co-founder of Amy Poehler's Smart Girls, a community built around helping girls feel seen for who they are, not just how they look, achieve, or fit in. Meredith has spent years listening to girls talk honestly about friendship, identity, confidence, belonging, social media, failure, and the pressure to become someone before they've even had a chance to figure out who they actually are. In this conversation, we talk about what's changed for girls growing up today, what hasn't, why so many tweens and teens feel disconnected from themselves, and what actually helps young people build self-trust over time. We also talk about her new book, Be Yourself and Other Bad Advice, a funny, thoughtful, and deeply compassionate guide to navigating the messy, awkward, emotionally intense experience of becoming yourself. This conversation felt honest, grounding, and very hopeful to me. I'm really glad you're here for it. I'm Dr. Sheryl. Welcome to The In Between Years. [gentle music] I wanna know all things like who were you from middle school to high school? What was... What were things like for you?

   2. MWMeredith Walker1:26

      Oh my gosh. Such an array of, like, trying on different things. You know, I couldn't really be put in a box except for a while I was pretty nerdy in a great way. Like I was saying last night, I... This is true. I read the encyclopedia for fun.

   3. SHDr. Sheryl1:42

      [laughs]

   4. MWMeredith Walker1:42

      Like, I'd be like, "Let's go. Now we're on C," you know? Like, I just-

   5. SHDr. Sheryl1:45

      [laughs]

   6. MWMeredith Walker1:45

      ... loved gathering information, but at the same time, I also, um, I just, I loved reading, and I, and I really loved, um... Eventually I started getting into, like, theater and, you know, of course, and, um, student council and spirit committee, but then I also sneaked out and went to dance clubs so I could dance to new wave bands-

   7. SHDr. Sheryl2:08

      [laughs]

   8. MWMeredith Walker2:08

      ... because I just had to express myself. Um, but, you know, so it was... I was a little all over the place, but the thing that I think had the most impact, like, as far as what we're talking about today, was going through middle school, I went to an all-girls school, and, you know, it was tough. It was kind of... That was... That's a really rough time when, you know, relational aggression hits the scene, and all these things start happening. And so, um, I... That was kind of... Middle school for me was a little bit lonely, and I had a great family and, and loved all that, but it was a little bit lonely, and I think that's why I kind of enjoyed reading the encyclopedia, and, um-

   9. SHDr. Sheryl2:45

      [laughs]

   10. MWMeredith Walker2:45

       ... and books and, like, celebrity biographies. [laughs]

2. 2:50 – 4:10

   College as an adjustment: not knowing the “track” and finding direction late

   1. SHDr. Sheryl2:50

      Um, okay. Awesome. So you were, like, a little bit of everything. I mean, that's really cool, actually. You were a little bit of everything. Um, so then, okay, you get out of... What were you like, like, senior year, and then what was college like for you as, like, a young woman?

   2. MWMeredith Walker3:07

      College was such a transition for me. It was a, it was a bit of a tough transition, and I think that's okay, but I just didn't know that it could be for other people, 'cause, like, I had an older sister and all of her friends, and it was just like, "College, woo," and they just... It... They were off for the time of their lives, and for me, it was more of an adjustment, you know? Um, just so many people I met already knew what they were studying f- and for what reason, you know? They knew the track. They were like, "I know where I'm going and how to g- uh, the classes I have to take," and I was like, "I don't know anything." [laughs] Like, I have no idea. Um, but I, I eventually found my footing and started finding a direction, and my senior year was actually my favorite year, because that's when I took a class, um, a film class, and I watched a documentary called Eyes on the Prize, which is a civil rights documentary. We studied the whole thing, and for the first time in my life really, I felt... I was like, "Oh, this is so interesting to me that I have to keep learning about all of this stuff. I'm feeling pulled in a direction." So I, I credit my senior year, that class my senior year with actually kind of starting to find my way.

3. 4:10 – 5:15

   The documentary that lit a fire: why ‘Eyes on the Prize’ mattered

   1. SHDr. Sheryl4:10

      And so what was it about Eyes of the Prize? Like, was it, like, the film aspect of it? Or, like, what was it about that you were like, "Oh, this is, this is, like, resonating for me"?

   2. MWMeredith Walker4:18

      It was hearing the stories, what it was like leading up to and going through the civil rights movement, and hearing it from the people who had participated in it, and what they had been through in their life, and, like, hearing it w- it was so different from than reading. You know, I had read books. I knew so much about the civil rights movement. My parents were even civil rights activists. But hearing the stories from the people themselves, that kind of documentary work, I realized, is so important, and hearing other people's stories is what will get us all to a better place. And when they're told well, when it's produced well, when you, when you're able to help people tell their stories very well, it just, it real- I thought, "This is..." It was almost haunting. I couldn't stop thinking about it.

   3. SHDr. Sheryl5:02

      Oh, okay. Gotcha. So you're like, senior year, you've watched this really moving, powerful documentary, and you're like, "Okay, that's set me on fire a little bit."

   4. MWMeredith Walker5:11

      Yes.

   5. SHDr. Sheryl5:11

      So then you graduate, and then what do you do?

4. 5:15 – 5:49

   Early career leap: saying yes before you’re ready (the Montana ranch job)

   1. MWMeredith Walker5:15

      Well, when I graduated, and I like telling people... I liked especially telling young people this, because it's like, [laughs] "You'll figure it out. Don't worry," you know? Um, my immediate job, I was a cook on a ranch in Montana, you know, one of those places that recruits college students. [laughs] 'Cause I didn't... Here's the best part, though, is I didn't know how to cook-

   2. SHDr. Sheryl5:33

      [laughs]

   3. MWMeredith Walker5:33

      ... but I knew that's the only position they had left, and so I learned how to cook. In two weeks, I tried everything. But, um...

   4. SHDr. Sheryl5:41

      But that's a great lesson, though, right? 'Cause sometimes you do just have to like, "Yes, I can do that," and then you just go and you figure it out.

5. 5:49 – 6:49

   Writing to a role model: Linda Ellerbee and the ‘respect young audiences’ principle

   1. MWMeredith Walker5:49

      That's it. That's what happens. If you apply yourself, you can figure it out. And that's when I was learning a lot more about this wonderful woman, Linda Ellerbee, who was a syndicated columnist at the time, but she was one of the leading, like, the pioneer women in broadcast journalism. And, um, and so I learned about, a lot about her, and I was so I, I admired her so much, and I was so intrigued by what she was doing that I wrote her a letter. And at the time, she was producing a show called Nick News on Nickelodeon, which had won Peabody and Emmy awards. It's, like, a really great show. And, um, we started corresponding with each other to the point where after a while she said, "You know what? Why don't you come up here and be a production assistant?" The greatest takeaway from working there with her, besides, I mean, just all of the how to tell the truth and fact check and all the important parts of journalism, but she said, "Always respect y- the audience, especially when they're young. You know? Like, you never talk down. You

6. 6:49 – 7:48

   Listening to kids across the country: what Meredith learned producing Nick News segments

   1. MWMeredith Walker6:49

      never try and, like, you know, make it into Romper Room. Kids know what's going on. They know they're f- having feelings about things. Like, tell the truth." And, um, and so we... That really worked out for us. And when I would go out and interview kids for news stories for this show, that's what I ended up doing, I eventually became a segment producer, and I would fly around the country and just listen to kids tell their stories, what was on their mind, what they wanted to change in their community, you know, problems they wanted to solve, problems they were in the middle of. And, um, and hearing them talk, it was just the, it was so life-changing just to hear their, their intelligence and their, and their deep feeling about issues. It was just, it was incredible.

   2. SHDr. Sheryl7:30

      I love that. So she told you early on in your career, like, when kids talk, we listen, and we listen with respect.

   3. MWMeredith Walker7:37

      Right.

   4. SHDr. Sheryl7:37

      And we treat them with respect. Okay. So you, so now at Nick News you went up to, like, segment producer?

   5. MWMeredith Walker7:44

      Uh-huh. Yeah.

   6. SHDr. Sheryl7:45

      Is that right? Okay. And then do you then transition somewhere else?

7. 7:48 – 8:44

   From Nick News to SNL: translating youth-listening skills to high-pressure adult spaces

   1. MWMeredith Walker7:48

      I did. After that, I became, that's when I became the head of the talent department at Saturday Night Live, which is... I mean, I couldn't tell you the math of the universe that, you know, led to that. Um, but it's, it's interesting because, like, as, as, as I th- Sometimes I like to think that all the skills I learned from talking to smart kids [laughs] was what I needed when I was talking to hosts and, like, dealing with y- with, uh, episodes of Saturday Night Live. Um, but my job there was essentially to... I, I got the host and the musical guest on the show, but essentially I was kind of t- the host's producer during the week and helping them. It's a, it's a tough transition because the staff and crew and writers, like, everybody at Saturday Night Live, it's, it's such a group, it's so contained, and you're there every week for every hard thing, and the host is bopping in to this group. And so it probably feels like transferring schools, like, the last week-

   2. SHDr. Sheryl8:41

      [laughs]

   3. MWMeredith Walker8:41

      ... of your senior year, and you're like, "Where do I eat lunch?"

   4. SHDr. Sheryl8:44

      [laughs]

8. 8:44 – 9:03

   Meeting Amy Poehler and the universal ‘middle school was hard’ bond

   1. MWMeredith Walker8:44

      Um, and so I was kind of the, the h- the, the connection. But the best part of that entire experience, of course, was that's where I met Amy Poehler and, Amy Meredith Poehler, and, um-

   2. SHDr. Sheryl8:55

      Oh, I did not know that

   3. MWMeredith Walker8:56

      ... and that's what really changed my life forever. Yeah.

   4. SHDr. Sheryl8:59

      Talk about meeting somebody and changing your life. That's amazing.

9. 9:03 – 11:31

   Creating Smart Girls: making girls feel seen for who they are right now

   1. MWMeredith Walker9:03

      Well, it really came together in the beautiful thing that happens, which I think happens with a lot of women friends. If you sit around and you talk about middle school, there's no one there that's saying, "I wish I could go back and just redo it."

   2. SHDr. Sheryl9:16

      [laughs]

   3. MWMeredith Walker9:16

      Like, "That was the best time of my life." You know? Everyone has a story, and it doesn't matter where they were economically, in the social hierarchy, like, grades-wise, everybody has a story of, like, "Oof." You know? That w- that's just a tough time, and we all know why now, of course, because of studies and science and all of these things, but at the time you just feel, you just don't feel great. And, um, and so that was the kind of thing, that kind of commonality when everyone can talk about a time when you didn't feel sure of yourself and y- you know, just all the things that come with adolescence. And, um, and then when we, some of us would talk about the things that had really helped us during that time. And for some people it was having a hobby that had nothing to do with school. And, um, for me, it was somebody outside of my family that was an older woman, but she just liked taking me, me with her on errands just to do stuff, or she'd take me to a movie, and she listened to me. She asked me questions about myself. So when we gathered information, we thought, "If there are things that helped, why don't we try and be part of that help and see if there's anything that we can offer up?" And eventually, that led to us starting Smart Girls. It was a great idea 'cause it was just to show young women that we were interested in them just for who they were right then, not, not because they had done some amazing feat, which is lovely, and it's wonderful when people do that. They're... But you're interesting just because y- you are. You already exist. That's it. And so we wanted them to come and tell us about their lives. And at the time we said, "Let's show them how much respect we have by having, like, a real set. Like, let's have them come and talk to us," and then, then the B-roll and stuff would show the things that they talked about and the things they liked to do. Um, but then eventually... I mean, that was a long time ago. That was 2008, I wanna say. And so then, you know, everything started happening, like YouTube channels and websites and, you know, social media started being real, this, the huge thing. And so it w- kind of grew along with all of that stuff. We started being able to do workshops in the real world, and we did some day camps here in Austin for girls, and we even had a journalism day camp. Um, and so that's what's happened. It's just grown and grown and grown.

10. 11:31 – 13:42

    Why Meredith wrote ‘Be Yourself and Other Bad Advice’: pressure, perfectionism, and fear of derailment

    1. SHDr. Sheryl11:31

       Amazing. And so is this book a culmination of all of those years of kind of hearing what the girls had to say and, and that sense of, like, "Here's what some- want... I wish someone would've told me?" Like, where did you go from that growing and then getting to this amazing book that you are launching out into the world today?

    2. MWMeredith Walker11:50

       Thank you so much for asking this question. I love it. It really is. I feel like this is the continuation of everything because it is. It's gathering what I've learned from listening to girls, and there were so many things. Every time that I would be out in conversation with girls just hearing about their lives, there were so many things that kept coming up, um, over and over again, different themes, and those are reflected by the chapters in the book. But the main thing, the main thing that just came up that really spawned, like, I, I was like, "We, uh, we've gotta get this book out in the world," no matter how great people's parents are- No matter, or, or whoever's giving care to them, they still feel immense, like crushing pressure to just get everything right, and to be on a certain track, and to be, you know, just setting themselves up for this idea of success to the point where they kind of felt like their girlhood is being robbed a little bit. Like, they don't j- get to just experience becoming, because everything is in service of a college application or a job application in the future. And t- whenever I would tell them about times, like I had mentioned earlier when you and I were talking, whenever I would mention to girls about times where I messed up, sometimes mistakes aren't your fault. Sometimes you actually do the mistake. It's like it is on you. Um, or sometimes things just happen so the path isn't working the way you like, and you can still be okay. And I think that so many young women that I've talked to through the years ma- m- most, you know, recently especially, they feel like one mistake is gonna derail everything. And so that's why kind of getting this information out there and just giving them a little bit of relief, because they really felt relief when they, when they realized like, "Oh, there are women out there who weren't perfect, and it worked out okay." And so I thought, "If we can get that relief a little wider spread, that'd be a good thing."

11. 13:42 – 17:53

    Why ‘just be yourself’ can backfire—and what adolescents actually need instead

    1. SHDr. Sheryl13:42

       Such a good thing. Another part that's such a good thing is your title, right? So the title, which I'm just, like, remembering, right? I was like, Just Be Yourself: (And Other Bad Advice to Unlearn) . [laughs] Um, why did you choose that one piece of advice to be like, "No, no, no, you actually don't want that to be-"

    2. MWMeredith Walker14:02

       [laughs]

    3. SHDr. Sheryl14:02

       "... your motto" [laughs] And what do you mean by it? 'Cause I know there's, there... it's funny, and there's some truth to that. So-

    4. MWMeredith Walker14:08

       Right

    5. SHDr. Sheryl14:08

       ... tell me about the title and, and what truth comes out of that.

    6. MWMeredith Walker14:12

       Well, we used to, at Smart Girls, we used to have a motto that we, we would say, um, "Change your, change the world by being yourself." C- and the idea was, you know, just who you are as is is great. Like, bring it out to the world. We need you. But we realized, I realized especially, that saying "be yourself" is not the most helpful if at, helpful at all, w- especially, I mean, ever.

    7. SHDr. Sheryl14:35

       [laughs]

    8. MWMeredith Walker14:35

       But, um, because when you're super nervous and someone says, "Be yourself," it's like, "That doesn't make me not nervous. Like, what, this is, no." You know? But, um, also, it's really hard advice to take when you don't even, when you haven't spent a lot of quiet time getting to know yourself. When you're just trying to fit in, and you're trying to figure it out, and you're trying to get good grades, and you know, you're trying to keep up with all kinds of stuff, you don't necessarily have a big, strong idea of exactly who you are or where, you know, the stuff about yourself. And so, "be yourself" can just kind of be a little bit dismissive and, uh, or at, at m- at best, like, just way too vague. And so I just thought, "Let's make, let's have some fun with that."

    9. SHDr. Sheryl15:13

       Oh, my gosh. And it is, it is awesome. And actually, my own daughter was like, "Oh, what are you doing?" And I said, "Oh, I'm reading this book," and I told her the title, and I'm laughing. And she's like, "So then what are you supposed to be?" And she's 18. She's like, "So then what are you supposed to be?" And I said, "You know, that's a great question, and I'm gonna ask the author." Um, I, I agree with you. I mean, you know, we did talk about a little bit more where I was like, it's hard to, to say "be yourself," especially when you're trying to discover yourself.

    10. MWMeredith Walker15:41

        Right.

    11. SHDr. Sheryl15:41

        Like, you're in process. So it is hard. So then if you're thinking, or, like, there's parents listening right, right now, and they're thinking, "Oh my gosh, I say that to my kid all the time. I'm always like, 'Well, just be yourself and you'll find the right friends,'" what do you think is maybe, like, a more effective way then of helping a girl who's trying to discover herself and what her values are and her interests? What, what should a parent then say to their girl, their daughter, their granddaughter, whoever?

    12. MWMeredith Walker16:08

        Well, I think, I would wanna f- I would ask you that question for the advice, like, in the moment. You know? I wouldn't know exactly, like, the, the... I could think it would depend so much on the, on the dynamic and the, and the actual personality you're dealing with. Like, w- how do they hear things best? Like, what actually gets through? But I think that's why the stuff in the book is so helpful, is doing exercises, pausing, and thinking w- about what your answer to some of these questions might be. Um, the prompts in my book are great. I'm sure there are so many resources out there of, you know, kind of like that, that are, um, figuring out, help. Spend some time figuring out who you are.

    13. SHDr. Sheryl16:47

        Yeah.

    14. MWMeredith Walker16:47

        Spend some time figuring out who your self is. You know?

    15. SHDr. Sheryl16:50

        Yeah.

    16. MWMeredith Walker16:50

        Experience becoming.

    17. SHDr. Sheryl16:52

        Yeah. I love that. I lo- I really love that, and I think probably what I would add to it, it would be like, and while you're figuring it out, this is why we go through different friends, different ways we do our hair, different clothes that we pick-

    18. MWMeredith Walker17:05

        So good

    19. SHDr. Sheryl17:05

        ... different music, right? And like, it's all okay. It's okay if you liked punk last month and then this month you're gonna try country, or what-

    20. MWMeredith Walker17:13

        Exactly

    21. SHDr. Sheryl17:13

        ... that's all okay. There's nothing wrong with you. This is part of the process. And I think that's, you know, almost, like, where you started when you were in college, where you're like, "I didn't know what I was doing." It's like we need to let girls know two things in high school and middle school, yeah, this is why you change so much. And even in college, I think college was originally meant to be a place to explore-

    22. MWMeredith Walker17:32

        Exactly

    23. SHDr. Sheryl17:32

        ... and learn.

    24. MWMeredith Walker17:34

        Yes. And all these years are when you're supposed to be trying on for size. Like, what, like you said, like, it's great. Be punk and then try something else if that doesn't feel right, or if it feels right, try a different for... Either thing, but yeah, it's, it's okay to keep trying things on for size and discarding some and, you know, adopting others.

12. 17:53 – 19:33

    How to use the book: prompts, journaling, and lowering resistance in teens

    1. SHDr. Sheryl17:53

       Absolutely. Um, and I, I love that. I think this book makes... It's, it's like, it is a book, and it's also sort of, to me, kind of like a journal or a workbook-

    2. MWMeredith Walker18:03

       Yeah

    3. SHDr. Sheryl18:03

       ... 'cause there's a lot of questions, right? And I love the illustrations. Um, do you think it's a, it's a book that a parent buys, reads first, and then gives to their kid? Does a parent buy it, just give it to their kid? Like, how do you see that transfer of exploration and knowledge going?

    4. MWMeredith Walker18:20

       Well, I think, well, first of all, um, a friend of mine and I were talking about it. It's w- I think, uh, everybody should do all the prompts in it, because we didn't have in, we didn't have an understanding of what we were going through, so it's kind of a nice thing to go back and start from scratch and kind of answer these for ourselves. It really is, like girls' weekend kind of thing. Um- But I think that just depends on the parent, really, because in my mind, there are so many, so many girls, so many young women I know that I would just hand this over to them and l- feel-- help them think that they're discovering it for themselves, because I think psychologically, sometimes that can really get rid of a barrier. Um, but for some parents, if you wanna read it first, and then kind of go over each chapter and go over subject matter, that's cool, too. But I think, I think just hand it over and see how it goes.

    5. SHDr. Sheryl19:07

       Yeah, I love that. I love-- I say that a lot, too, about puberty books and things like that. Like, I'm like, "You can look through it, but eventually you're just sort of probably gonna leave it," like, on their bed [laughs] or-

    6. MWMeredith Walker19:17

       Right

    7. SHDr. Sheryl19:17

       ... like, "Oh, if you, you know, just in case if you wanted to look through it. No big deal, no big pressure." Um-

    8. MWMeredith Walker19:23

       We were saying that last night. It's kinda like, "Look what I found on the ground. I don't even know what this is." You know? [laughs] Like, just-

    9. SHDr. Sheryl19:28

       What is this thing?

    10. MWMeredith Walker19:30

        Yeah. They're like, "What is it?" [laughs]

13. 19:33 – 25:03

    What’s different for today’s girls: social media’s ‘no off switch’ and constant comparison

    1. SHDr. Sheryl19:33

       Exactly, exactly. So what do you think, um, in reflecting, right? I know this is the launch of something that really for you has been almost 20 years in the making, or even longer if we start from when we were in middle school and figuring things out. But what are the kinds of issues or challenges you think are the same, they're always gonna be evergreen, and what are some things that you think have changed or evolved? Like, what's unique to today's girls' challenge?

    2. MWMeredith Walker20:02

       I think there's something so unique... We-- Oh, I was just talking about this. I love that you asked this question. Um, I think that it's always been-- there's always been, like, some level of comparison, and am I matching what I'm supposed to be, like, all these markers. And, you know, there's always been peer pressure, and, like, keeping up with the trends and all that kind of stuff. But the, the difference is there was an off switch almost for a lot of generations. And now, because of social media, and I've said this before, I don't wanna demonize social media. There are good parts of it. There are nice connective tissue things that happen in there. But it's relentless. It's an onslaught of opinions, and things you're supposed to buy, and ways you're supposed to look, and what they're doing, and what you're not doing. And if you go to make a phone call, you'll see that there's a new video up, you know, if you wanna check the weather. So it's like, it's kind of har- it's hard to stay away from the outside influence. And whereas I know, like, for people in our, roughly our generation, you know, there wa- there-- we could step away. There were magazines and TV channels, but you turned off the TV, and the magazine was read and put away. And so I do think that that is something, um, just in general, not only the, the kind of algorithmic manipulation that happens with social media, social media, but also all the things that we might have experienced in middle school that's, that was tough at the time and during the day, you can actually see it. Like, "Oh, look, they were all at that slumber party," or, you know, all of those kind of things. And so I do th- I do think, I li- I think, uh, you know, some people like to say, "Back in my day, it was hard, too" and all that, but I do think it's extra hard when it's just completely around all the time. Like, there really isn't a break. Maybe when you're sleeping, you know? [laughs]

    3. SHDr. Sheryl21:55

       Maybe. Um, I actually just had, I just have to tell you, like, l- a, an, a light bulb moment happen when you were explaining that. When you said there was an off switch.

    4. MWMeredith Walker22:06

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SHDr. Sheryl22:07

       And I, I just wanna highlight what, what that translates for me, because what that meant was no matter how hard the day was, no matter who excluded me when, who said something behind my back, how bad practice went, once I got off the bus, right? I was a bus kid. It was like I got to go in my room and just do nothing, or read, or talk to one person on the phone, or just eat dinner even in silence, right? Like-

    6. MWMeredith Walker22:35

       Mm

    7. SHDr. Sheryl22:35

       ... I could have a pause and a break-

    8. MWMeredith Walker22:38

       Yes

    9. SHDr. Sheryl22:39

       ... right, from all the noise, and it would be like... And you'd almost, like, regear up. Like, "All right. Well, I'm home now at least, and tomorrow's a new day." And then the weekends and summer breaks were true breaks.

    10. MWMeredith Walker22:50

        Oh, yes.

    11. SHDr. Sheryl22:51

        Like, you could really, right? So it just, like, just occurred to me, like, the idea of maybe, like, how do we support or help parents say, like, "We can't bring back the good old days and our amazing generation."

    12. MWMeredith Walker23:03

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SHDr. Sheryl23:03

        "However, what could we do to protect our kids from the always-on media, and then social media, and, you know, all the scrolling and all the things that don't give kids that off switch?" So I just wanted to share with you, like, I just had this lo- light bulb moment, and maybe that's the way we, we talk about it and frame it, is just we're not gonna change the world, but we could probably change the inside of our house in some ways just to give them that break.

    14. MWMeredith Walker23:26

        I, yes. I, I do think so. And I think, you know, letting them know that that's an option. A break is an option. And it, it, I think it hel- it always helps to hear, like, "And it was good for me when I took a break. You know, maybe it'll be good for you. I don't know." But that's what I'm hoping too, is, like, th- that some of the stuff is in, in, you know, it's in book form, so it's not, it's not on your phone. And you actually maybe just turn on the playlist, do some of these things. Because I also think when you know more about yourself and then you find yourself more interesting, I think that you're kind of, you're a little bit stronger for those harder moments, you know? Like, whe- when those things do happen that are a huge bummer, if you find yourself interesting and you like yourself, uh, you know, to the extent that you can, um, it's, you can just, you can withstand those a little bit easier. And so I think that that's an important part of it, too. 'Cause I f- I have found that in my life, you know, for sure.

    15. SHDr. Sheryl24:21

        Absolutely. And the way you put it was you can withstand, you know, essentially, like, kind of the harder times easier. And what I'm thinking, too, is we're always talking about resiliency.

    16. MWMeredith Walker24:30

        Yes.

    17. SHDr. Sheryl24:30

        How do we raise resilient kids? And, you know, and part of that resilience, part of the formula is a rest and a reset-

    18. MWMeredith Walker24:37

        Yes

    19. SHDr. Sheryl24:37

        ... and a coming back to self and some quiet time. Um, and so if we don't allow that, we're gonna keep spinning our wheels on well, how do we raise resilient kids? Well, part of it is, is really in that whole process of, like, I need to tune everybody out, I need to be able to tune in, and I can't do that if it's still loud, or if it's scrolling, or if I'm getting notificat- 352 notifications a day.

    20. MWMeredith Walker25:01

        Exactly

14. 25:03 – 29:28

    Building self-trust and resilience: self-compassion, noticing what goes right, and respectful listening

    1. SHDr. Sheryl25:03

       Um, okay. I could talk about this all day, 'cause of course, teen, teen girls are like, you know, the center of all of my life's work, too. So thank you for the work that you, and Amy, and so many other people have done. But I wanna end with this one question I'm very curious about. The... Like you said, each of the chapters are essentially like a piece of advice, and then ways to think about it, questions to ask yourself, things to learn. So of all of the great pieces of advice or guidance, do any one of them resonate just a little bit more with you, a little bit more personal to you, or, like, your personal favorite?

    2. MWMeredith Walker25:40

       I have so many favorites, depending on the day, but there is one that is always. [laughs] And that is, there's, there's a part in the book about self-compassion, which can sound a little, um, can sound a little bit vague, but what it means is, I mean, essentially, it's like, why don't you talk to yourself? When you make a mistake, or you feel like something went wrong, try and talk to yourself the way you would talk to your best friend. 'Cause you wouldn't be mean to your best friend ab- about it and tell her she never gets anything right, and she's always, she keeps messing up all the time, you know? You would treat her so well, and with so much love. And if you do that to yourself, it makes a huge difference. It really does. And so I love being reminded of that. Um, but I also love being reminded about trying to find what's going right in your day. You know? It's so easy for us to see one thing that went wrong and be like, "I had a terrible day. That person was kind of mean to me." [gentle music] And s- 150 other things happened that were great. Someone tried to help you out, someone smiled at you, someone offered you, you know, a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. It, there could be a million things. And don't always let the one thing that went wrong be the, where the spotlight goes. And you can actually train your brain that way. If you look for th- the things that went well and that added comfort to your day, you'll start seeing that first, and that makes a huge difference in your, just how you see life in general.

    3. SHDr. Sheryl27:12

       I'm still thinking about what Meredith said about three things. First was the off switch, and the idea that we used to have that as kids, but we don't have that anymore, and maybe just how could we possibly create that for our kids. And I'm also struck by how she talked about how kids know when we're really listening, when we really respect the things that they have to say, and maybe how we can listen in a way that's more respectful for them so they can share more. And the third one was the idea around self-compassion, and the idea that if we could help kids talk to themselves more positively, more gently, or like she said, kind of the way you would talk to someone else, how the world could change. So before we go, here's one last thing. Tonight, I want you to ask your tween or teen one question without correcting, fixing, teaching, or reassuring them. I want you to just ask them, "What does it mean to just be yourself?" And then listen. There's no right answer. You're not trying to guide them somewhere. So much of growing up is wondering whether anyone is actually curious about who you are, underneath all that performance, pressure, and noise. Thank you so much for joining us on The In Between Years. If this conversation resonated with you, send it to another parent, or caregiver, or an educator who's in this messy middle with you. And remember, every day, parents in the Good Inside community on our app are having honest, helpful conversations just like the ones that we just had. Visit goodinside.com to learn more. Okay. Let's end the way we always do. [gentle music] Deep breath. [inhales] [exhales] This in between time feels like a lot, because it is a lot. If you remember one thing, let it be this: They act like they don't need you, they still need you. I'll see you next week. [outro music]

Episode duration: 29:38