The Thoughts New Parents Don’t Say Out Loud: Postpartum Emotions, Anxiety & What They Mean

1. 0:00 – 1:54

   Why new parenthood hits before the toddler years—and what “Rattled!” is for

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:00

      For years at Good Inside, we focused on the huge changes that parents go through when they're learning to work with toddlers and young kids. But as anyone with an infant can tell you, the ground shifts hard before all that, in the third trimester, in the weeks with a newborn, in the [laughs] stretches when everything feels bigger and closer to the surface than you expected, and it all feels like it's gonna be like that forever, and nobody prepared you for what's happening inside your body and inside your head. At Good Inside, we've started building something for that. The first piece is a new podcast called Rattled!, a show for when new parenthood shakes you. Every episode starts with a thought that doesn't quite make it into the group chat, thoughts like, "Why don't I love this?" "I miss my old life." "Why is this so boring?" "Why didn't anyone warn me about the fine print?" And even, "What if I hurt my baby?" We name the thought, we sit with the guest who lived it, and we work it out together. And there's even more for new parents coming from Good Inside later this spring, and I'll tell you about it on the other end of today's episode. Today, I wanna play you two excerpts, one from each of our first two Rattled! guests. First up, Caro Chambers. You may know her from her cookbook and her Substack, What to Cook When You Don't Feel Like Cooking. She's a mom of four. [gentle music] And in this clip, she tells me about a 6:30 a.m. morning in Carmel, California, when she woke up and realized, "Nobody told me this would happen." Tell me a little bit about who Caro Chambers was before your first baby.

2. 1:54 – 3:30

   Caro Chambers before baby: productivity, freedom, and “worth = routine”

   1. CCCaro Chambers1:54

      Ooh, okay. I did whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. [laughs] That's who I was.

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:00

      I mean, chef's kiss about pre-child life.

   3. CCCaro Chambers2:04

      Mm.

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:04

      Okay, and at that point in your life, pre-motherhood, paint me a picture, like all the details, it doesn't even have to be the most representative, of a moment before having kids where you're like, "I felt really productive today. I feel really worthy," like, "I, I got something done."

   5. CCCaro Chambers2:18

      Oh, great. Okay, so a, a worthy day pre-kids was, like, I had a morning routine that I would actually stick to.

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:26

      Mm.

   7. CCCaro Chambers2:27

      Like, I used to set an alarm, you know, wake up, have cup of coffee, exercise, get home. If I, like, was exercised, bathed-

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:36

      Mm

   9. CCCaro Chambers2:37

      ... hair ready to go for the day by 9:00 a.m., I was like, "I'm crushing," like, "This is... Today will be the best day ever."

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:43

       And, and just to stick on that, how many reps do you think your body had-

   11. CCCaro Chambers2:49

       Oh

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:49

       ... of doing that-

   13. CCCaro Chambers2:50

       Yeah

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:50

       ... and associating that with worth and productivity before you had a child?

   15. CCCaro Chambers2:54

       That's such a great... Yeah, I mean, how old was I when I had my first kid? 29. I would say I started doing that, like, as a young professional living in New York City-

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:03

       Yeah

   17. CCCaro Chambers3:03

       ... at 21. It was like wake up, exercise, get showered, go to work. And yeah, so nine years of-

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:09

       Yeah

   19. CCCaro Chambers3:10

       ... p- p- p- reps.

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:10

       So I'm gonna make up nine times 300. Let's say you did 300 days.

   21. CCCaro Chambers3:14

       Mm-hmm.

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:15

       Nine times three is 20... This is, like, tw- 2,700 reps-

   23. CCCaro Chambers3:19

       Yeah

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:20

       ... of doing it.

   25. CCCaro Chambers3:20

       Mm-hmm.

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:21

       It probably going according to plan-

   27. CCCaro Chambers3:23

       Mm-hmm

   28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:23

       ... because there weren't that many variables, and then your body learning-

   29. CCCaro Chambers3:25

       Yeah

   30. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:25

       ... that was productivity and worth. I have a feeling we're gonna circle back to that.
3. 3:30 – 5:31

   “All of it would come naturally”—and the shock of postpartum body reality

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:30

      Um, okay, anything that you assumed-

   2. CCCaro Chambers3:34

      Mm-hmm

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:35

      ... would just come naturally when you became a mom?

   4. CCCaro Chambers3:38

      All of it.

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:39

      [laughs]

   6. CCCaro Chambers3:39

      I am not, like, a big... Like, I'm not, like, a planner.

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:44

      Mm-hmm.

   8. CCCaro Chambers3:44

      I'm extremely opposite of type A. I just kinda roll with things as they come. And I remember this baby being here, and, like, I felt like a broken shell of a human. You know, like, my bladder was all messed up, and my boobs were crazy, and everything was so messed up in my own body, that I remember just looking at this baby and being like, "They're gonna let us take it home?"

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:05

      Yes.

   10. CCCaro Chambers4:05

       Like, "What? I don't know how to do it. Like, I don't know what to do with this thing or what it wants when it cries." And I felt extremely overwhelmed by that at the beginning. Like, there is so much that happens in your own body, and that I had no idea about. Like, I was like, "Oh, you have the baby, and it hurts when you have the baby?" Like, I was like, "Oh, yeah, ah," you know, "you scream-"

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:27

       Right

   12. CCCaro Chambers4:27

       ... "you get the baby out, and then it's over." [laughs] No, like, you've only-

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:31

       Mm-hmm

   14. CCCaro Chambers4:31

       ... you know, sometimes that is only just the beginning, and, um, that I had no idea about. So I don't... I think I felt so selfish in those first weeks because I thought about myself, like, all the time. Like, I thought about, "Oh, my gosh, is it, is... Why are my boobs so engorged? Why am, why is this happening? Why is that happening? Am I ever gonna pee normally again?" Like, "Why do I keep peeing myself every time I laugh?" Like-

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:54

       Yes

   16. CCCaro Chambers4:54

       ... "Is any of this normal, normal, normal?" And I had no idea that any of that was coming. So I think I pictured this cozy little bubble with a baby, and really, I ended up thinking about myself a lot.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:02

       Yeah, the baby was the subject.

   18. CCCaro Chambers5:04

       Yes, that's exactly it.

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:05

       Like, no one told you to think about you.

   20. CCCaro Chambers5:08

       Mm-mm. Yeah, that's exactly it. I, I imagined thinking about the baby all the time, having these, like, cozy, cuddly moments with my husband and the baby. And yeah, it really felt like I thought about myself a lot more than I thought I could've thought I would.

   21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:20

       Yeah. I wanna know if you can take a moment to think about a night, a morning, whatever it was, that, that still now-

   22. CCCaro Chambers5:27

       Mm-hmm

   23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:28

       ... for that first child, like you can still remember.

4. 5:31 – 7:40

   The 6:30 a.m. Carmel moment: when the baby is awake for the day

   1. CCCaro Chambers5:31

      Okay. So I'm a sleeper. Well, I was. I used to be a sleeper, but I really slept in this morning, and I was like, "I used to do this. [laughs] Like, I used to actually do this." On the weekends, I would, like, really sleep in. And I remember very specifically, you know, once the newborn starts to, like, kinda figure out when they wanna wake up for the day, you know? Like, they go from just sleeping every two hours to, like-

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:56

      Like, yeah

   3. CCCaro Chambers5:56

      ... having this moment where they actually-

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:57

      Yeah

   5. CCCaro Chambers5:57

      ... like, open their eyes, and they're awake for the day.

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:58

      Yeah.

   7. CCCaro Chambers5:59

      And it's usually around, like, I don't... I think two weeks.

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:01

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CCCaro Chambers6:01

      I remember, like, at 6:30, this baby was, like, awake and needed, like, to be taken care of and attention, and I was like, "Oh, I've completely changed my life." [laughs] Like, I have completely... Like, I did not think about the fact that I now, like- I don't just get to sleep if I want to sleep.

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:18

       Right.

   11. CCCaro Chambers6:18

       And I don't just get to go to the gym if I want to go to the gym or, you know, whatever it is. Like, I have this thing to take care of all the time. And I remember so specifically, it was, like, when the baby, like, woke up for the first time.

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:28

       Where, where were you?

   13. CCCaro Chambers6:30

       In... I was in Carmel, California.

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:33

       Uh-huh.

   15. CCCaro Chambers6:33

       And I was in bed, and I- I, like, so specifically remember, like, at first you can always kind of nurse the baby back to sleep, you know, or bottle the baby back to sleep, and then, like, all of a sudden, you know, I'd feed him and he was still awake, and I was like, "Oh, no. Oh, this is, like, a different... This is a whole different beast."

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:49

       Yeah.

   17. CCCaro Chambers6:49

       Like, now what am I supposed to do with you?

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:51

       Yeah. [laughs]

   19. CCCaro Chambers6:51

       I have to, like, entertain you.

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:53

       And so you're in bed.

   21. CCCaro Chambers6:54

       Mm-hmm.

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:54

       It's dark outside.

   23. CCCaro Chambers6:55

       Oh, yeah. It's dark outside. It's winter.

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:57

       It's winter. But, okay, it's 6:30 in the morning.

   25. CCCaro Chambers7:00

       6:30 in the morning.

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:01

       And you're not someone who's, like, the 6:30 rise and shiner.

   27. CCCaro Chambers7:05

       Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

   28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:05

       No.

   29. CCCaro Chambers7:06

       No.

   30. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:06

       And so even for the first two weeks-
5. 7:40 – 9:35

   The unspoken thought: “No one warned me… was I ready?”

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:40

      And so if I, I don't even know if this is the right word, had a camera or, like, something recording inside your brain-

   2. CCCaro Chambers7:47

      Mm

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:47

      ... that first morning at 6:30 when this happened, when you're like, "This is not going according to plan"-

   4. CCCaro Chambers7:51

      Yeah

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:51

      ... what, what am I hearing? What's the thought?

   6. CCCaro Chambers7:54

      Oh. Well, I definitely remember having some very, like, big thoughts. Like, I remember thinking, like, "I've completely changed my entire life, and, like, no one really warned me that that was happening." Like-

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:08

      Mm

   8. CCCaro Chambers8:08

      ... I definitely remember thinking, like, "Was I, you know, was I actually ready to do this?" Like, was I ready to change, 100% change my life, have somebody else depending on me all the time? But yeah, I- I definitely remember just thinking, like, "Whoa, my, my full life has changed, and was I ready for this?"

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:25

      And, and no one told me.

   10. CCCaro Chambers8:26

       Yeah.

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:27

       Like, I feel like-

   12. CCCaro Chambers8:28

       Yeah

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:28

       ... I signed a contract without-

   14. CCCaro Chambers8:29

       Yes

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:30

       ... like, there was some fine print in there.

   16. CCCaro Chambers8:31

       Yes. Yes.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:31

       [laughs] Like, they snuck it in.

   18. CCCaro Chambers8:33

       Where was this?

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:34

       Yeah.

   20. CCCaro Chambers8:34

       Exactly.

   21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:35

       A- and, and, and just the language you just used really strikes me, 'cause when I think about... Like, I picture, I remember it was probably, like, three weeks in, um, and I remember my sister-in-law coming into my room. I was, like, bre- you know, feeding my baby, and she was just, like, very innocently like, "How's it going?" It's like 4:00 PM.

   22. CCCaro Chambers8:57

       Yeah.

   23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:57

       And it was-

   24. CCCaro Chambers8:57

       Oh, yeah. 4:00 PM

   25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:58

       ... you know, it was the fall, so, you know, it was that 4:00 PM, like, dread.

   26. CCCaro Chambers9:01

       Mm-hmm.

   27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:02

       And I was like, "Oh, just not good."

   28. CCCaro Chambers9:05

       It's not good.

   29. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:06

       You know? And sh- she didn't, she was younger than me, didn't have kids. And although she's like, "Oh, okay"

   30. CCCaro Chambers9:10

       [laughs]
6. 9:35 – 12:27

   The “forever” feeling, phases, and postpartum hypervigilance spirals

   1. CCCaro Chambers9:35

      That feeling in brand-new motherhood is so terrifying and suffocating. It's the, like, "I'm gonna feel this way forever."

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:43

      Yes.

   3. CCCaro Chambers9:43

      The, it also, it keeps going, right, into toddlerhood. Like, oh, he's gonna act like a little Dementor at dinner every single night. Like, those feelings continue, but there's none as raw as in brand-new motherhood-

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:55

      Yes

   5. CCCaro Chambers9:55

      ... when you're like, "Oh, I'm gonna feel like I'm not cut out for this," or whatever it is.

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy9:58

      Yeah.

   7. CCCaro Chambers9:59

      Or he's gonna scream at 4:00 PM every single night for 30 minutes forever.

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:02

      Yeah.

   9. CCCaro Chambers10:03

      It feels so intense-

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:04

       It is

   11. CCCaro Chambers10:05

       ... and suffocating.

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:05

       Whenever I say that to a new parent around, like, the forever truth, they're like, "I know. That's, that's-"

   13. CCCaro Chambers10:09

       Yes.

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:09

       And that's why it feels so awful-

   15. CCCaro Chambers10:11

       Yes

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:11

       ... I think, right?

   17. CCCaro Chambers10:12

       Yes.

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:12

       Because if something felt awful but then your next thought was, "But it won't feel like this forever"-

   19. CCCaro Chambers10:18

       It won't feel forever. Yeah

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:18

       ... like, you're like, "Oh, I'm immediately-

   21. CCCaro Chambers10:20

       Yes

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:21

       ... able to deal with it then."

   23. CCCaro Chambers10:21

       And the newborns go through so many stages, right? I remember being so addicted to the, to the Wonder Weeks app with my first, 'cause it, like, kind of tells you-

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:32

       Mm-hmm

   25. CCCaro Chambers10:32

       ... you know, your baby's j- just learning to open their eyes, so they're seeing the world, so it's, like, overwhelming for them, whatever. It, like, tells you these things. You know, since that first baby, I've backed off of that and just been like, "This is a moment. This is a phase. It might be an hour, it might be two weeks, but, like, this fussiness is going to pass."

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:50

       Yes.

   27. CCCaro Chambers10:50

       "This, like, inability to fall asleep without me being attached to them is gonna pass." I had such bad postpartum anxiety. Like, I got up and checked on his breathing 20 times a night. I had, like, all the monitors, the Owlet on his foot, the, you know, camera looking down at him. Like, I had all the monitors, and I realize now that that was perpetuating the problem so much for me, 'cause I felt like if I wasn't looking at the monitors, then something bad would happen.

   28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:16

       When the solution kind of becomes the problem.

   29. CCCaro Chambers11:18

       Yes.

   30. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:19

       Yeah.
7. 12:27 – 13:51

   Pivot to intrusive thoughts: naming the taboo fear without shame

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy12:27

      Nobody tells you how much of the early weeks is just trying to figure out what actually happened to you. The next interview sits in a similar place, but with very different texture. It's with Leah Smart, a writer, an executive coach, and a first-time mom who came on Rattled to talk about something a lot of new parents quietly carry and almost never say out loud, intrusive thoughts, jarring, terrifying thoughts, like, "What if I hurt my kid?" I know that's a hard sentence to hear, and it's a real experience for so many new parents. In this clip, Leah walks me through what actually happened inside her body and brain when those thoughts landed, and then we talk about what's actually at the root of it. Listen for the moment where Leah names that directly, and then we reframe the whole thing together. This back and forth is what Rattled is built for. [Instrumental music playing] Here's Leah. I wanna actually kind of zone in to a day, to a hour, to a moment where, I don't know, you just still remember it. Something feels like it shifted, it rattled you. Tell me about a moment.

8. 13:51 – 15:04

   Leah’s perinatal anxiety: panic attacks, shame, and lack of preparation

   1. LSLeah Smart13:51

      When I was about five months, I started having panic attacks going into the subway, and I'd lived in New York for a long time, so this was a new thing for me. Um, and so I was diagnosed with perinatal anxiety. I saw a maternal psychiatrist, which was... You know, it's funny, I've dealt with anxiety a lot of my life, but this felt different because I was pregnant-

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy14:13

      Mm

   3. LSLeah Smart14:13

      ... because I didn't know how it would impact the baby, because it felt a little more shameful, um, because no one had ever told me. [laughs] I only knew about postpartum depression, honestly-

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy14:25

      Yeah

   5. LSLeah Smart14:25

      ... was all I'd ever really heard about, so [clears throat] I was dealing with, um, that. And with that, for me, came something called intrusive thoughts, which is your own fears of the things basically that matter most, triggering your brain over and over again and getting you into this, like, really high anxiety mode. And these are, you know, these are tough moments, so I also just wanna be thoughtful of people who've experienced them and maybe are just hearing right now what they are. But I found so many women after I'd had my baby in my, my moms group, I'm on the committee for a moms group here in the city, were like, "I had these thoughts."

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:04

      Mm.

9. 15:04 – 17:23

   How intrusive thoughts work: “You’re triggered by what matters most”

   1. LSLeah Smart15:04

      "What if I threw my baby out the window? What if I saw a knife and then I hurt the baby? What if I hurt myself?" I mean, you know, the what ifs can spin out of control, and what you learn is, number one, you're triggered by what matters. If I have an intrusive thought that's like, "What if I go into a church and scream something blasphemous?" But I'm not religious and I never go to church, it'll pass through my mind. If I have an intrusive thought that's about this tiny little being that I just gave birth to with my husband, who I love, and I'm making up that I'm the only person in the world who's ever had these thoughts-

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:42

      Yep

   3. LSLeah Smart15:43

      ... it will push you into a different zone, and it can just create more anxiety and create distance between you and the baby.

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:50

      So first of all, thank you for sharing even all that you've shared so far.

   5. LSLeah Smart15:54

      Yeah.

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:54

      And I know you know this, but just naming these thoughts, like, "What if I throw my baby out the window?" You're not the only one.

   7. LSLeah Smart16:00

      Mm-hmm.

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:00

      People listening have had that thought.

   9. LSLeah Smart16:02

      Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:03

       And it really is the story we tell ourselves about our thoughts that determines kind of how we feel after.

   11. LSLeah Smart16:10

       Mm-hmm.

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:11

       Right? But before we-

   13. LSLeah Smart16:13

       Mm

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:13

       ... get to all the ways that you learned to tell yourself an understandable grounding story, w- were there hours, minutes, seconds that you, at that time, that you couldn't find that story, that those-

   15. LSLeah Smart16:27

       Oh, my God, yeah. I mean, I, I had intrusive thoughts before I was pregnant-

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:32

       Yeah

   17. LSLeah Smart16:32

       ... before I... So it got worse, right, 'cause something even more important is being put into the story that didn't exist when I was-

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:39

       Right

   19. LSLeah Smart16:39

       ... you know, single or when I had just met my husband. Um, but yeah, oh, my God. I, I had, I can remember certain days when I just had space.

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:51

       Yes.

   21. LSLeah Smart16:52

       And so, you know, I'd do my morning routine, but that was over by 11:00, right? [laughs] So by 11:00 I'm like, "All right, you know, what am I up to?" And often, again, as I mentioned, my husband was gone on the weekends, so it was up to me to kind of figure out what I wanted to do, and some days I just wanted to be on my own, but some days I was on my own and spinning in intrusive thoughts and going, "Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. This is scary." And I had to figure out alone, before I even saw a therapist, what it was, what they were.

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:21

       Yeah.

   23. LSLeah Smart17:21

       Um, so-

10. 17:23 – 18:35

    Inside the spiral: body reactions, self-interrogation, and obsessive fear

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:23

       What does that sp- like, just, okay, what if... I'm just gonna start with one. What if I throw my baby out the window?

    2. LSLeah Smart17:27

       Yeah. Yeah.

    3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:29

       Is it, does my heart, heart start racing?

    4. LSLeah Smart17:31

       Oh, my God, yeah.

    5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:31

       Is it, do I start thinking about it? Do I then start saying, "What kind of mom has those thoughts?"

    6. LSLeah Smart17:36

       Right.

    7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:36

       Like, if I'm inside your brain and body, what's going on?

    8. LSLeah Smart17:38

       How could I think that? What's wrong with me? Um, the more that you spin it up and you keep going, "Oh, my God, I, I can't believe I just had that thought. What does that mean about me? Am I okay? Am I normal? I'm not normal" And it's, it, that whole thing just keeps going. And so, um, the more that you spin that up, the worse it gets. It's like telling you not to think about a pink elephant.

    9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:01

       Right.

    10. LSLeah Smart18:02

        We're all thinking about it now.

    11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:03

        Yeah.

    12. LSLeah Smart18:03

        You know? [laughs]

    13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:04

        Yeah.

    14. LSLeah Smart18:05

        So it's the, the challenge is that-

    15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:06

        But I guess the difference with the pink elephant is if I had a preconceived notion that thinking about a pink elephant meant I was a bad, awful person for-

    16. LSLeah Smart18:15

        Exactly

    17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:15

        ... then thinking about a pink elephant not only becomes consuming, but it becomes-

    18. LSLeah Smart18:20

        Right

    19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:20

        ... it, it almost starts to inform how I think about my identity. "Oh-

    20. LSLeah Smart18:24

        Mm

    21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:24

        ... there's that thought again."

    22. LSLeah Smart18:25

        Yep.

    23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:25

        I, I become so scared of the thought.

    24. LSLeah Smart18:27

        It's incoming, yeah.

    25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:27

        "Uh, the last time I had the thought when I was putting the baby down for a nap, and am I gonna have the thought today when..." Right? We become... I don't know, does, was that-

    26. LSLeah Smart18:34

        Yes.

    27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:35

        Okay, so tell me.

11. 18:35 – 20:32

    The turning point reframe: obsession reflects protection, not intent

    1. LSLeah Smart18:35

       Oh, my gosh, yeah. It's the, like, obsession with the thing.

    2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:39

       Yes.

    3. LSLeah Smart18:39

       Um, to... And the obsession is what creates the spiral, and really- The obsession is about the fear of something happening. It's not wanting it to happen. If you don't want it to happen, and you combine that with the fear and the anxiety, you're going to make it big because of how much it matters, and that was the biggest turning point for me, was the fears I have are actually about the opposite, wanting the opposite. So you know, if I fear for my baby, or I fear, you know, like what if I hurt my dog, you know, whatever.

    4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:17

       Yeah.

    5. LSLeah Smart19:17

       I love my dog.

    6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:18

       Yeah.

    7. LSLeah Smart19:19

       I'd never hurt my dog. You are not your thoughts.

    8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:22

       That's right.

    9. LSLeah Smart19:22

       Right? And you do not d- you don't even act on most of your thoughts. What is it, like I don't know if the number's still 87,000 thoughts a day. Most of them are-

    10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:30

        Yeah

    11. LSLeah Smart19:31

        ... you know, repeated, and most of them are negative, and most of them are about you. [laughs]

    12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:35

        Yeah.

    13. LSLeah Smart19:35

        And so we have a lot of, a lot of thoughts throughout the day, but most we just kind of let pass through like clouds.

    14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:40

        Mm-hmm.

    15. LSLeah Smart19:41

        And when we really care about something is when that moment is the moment you get, like trapped. So I had to go find my own answers, and then the days I would spiral, or the times I would spiral, I would use the things I'd found and go for a walk and listen to, you know, a book about intrusive thoughts, just to remind myself, oh-

    16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:02

        Yeah

    17. LSLeah Smart20:03

        ... this isn't real.

    18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:05

        So, so there's a couple things I wanna break down. I don't know why, but I'm, it's a helpful comparison to me. I'm thinking about, I happen to not be too scared of flying, but I know a lot of people who are.

    19. LSLeah Smart20:15

        Yeah.

    20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:15

        And I'm thinking about being on a plane, and someone thinking, "I hope the plane doesn't crash. I hope the plane doesn't crash," right? That thought doesn't make the plane-

    21. LSLeah Smart20:22

        No

    22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:23

        ... more likely to crash, and-

    23. LSLeah Smart20:24

        Right

    24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:24

        ... and that is such a good example of clearly you're thinking about that obsessively, 'cause y- 'cause you don't.

    25. LSLeah Smart20:30

        Mm-hmm.

    26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:30

        You wanna stay alive.

    27. LSLeah Smart20:31

        Mm-hmm.

    28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:31

        Right? Right?

    29. LSLeah Smart20:31

        Yeah.

12. 20:32 – 22:56

    Context that intensifies shame: “I should only feel grateful and happy”

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:32

       Right? And so, uh, if I bring that back here, I think maybe the difference is it feels so charged with this, maybe it's coming back to what we started with. You must only have happy feelings about being a mom now.

    2. LSLeah Smart20:46

       About, uh, about life.

    3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:47

       About everything.

    4. LSLeah Smart20:48

       About everything, exactly. [laughs]

    5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:49

       And so I, I just wanna add it, 'cause I think it matters. I'm thinking about the person listening who took a really long time to get pregnant.

    6. LSLeah Smart20:58

       Mm.

    7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:58

       Maybe a lot of losses. It d- you know, fertility struggles.

    8. LSLeah Smart21:01

       Yeah.

    9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:02

       And then the baby's here, and they have the thought.

    10. LSLeah Smart21:05

        Ugh.

    11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:07

        "I'm having the thought of throwing my baby out the window." And I'm thinking about, I spent X amount...

    12. LSLeah Smart21:13

        Yes

    13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:14

        ... what kind of person?

    14. LSLeah Smart21:16

        Yeah.

    15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:16

        Right? And what I love about your framework is, first of all, w- with our thoughts and the things we say, the truth is rarely in the words.

    16. LSLeah Smart21:27

        Mm.

    17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:27

        Like when I say to my husband, "You never help with anything"

    18. LSLeah Smart21:31

        Mm

    19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:31

        ... I, I don't, like, it's, like anyone knows, if he says, "Well, I took the garbage out yesterday"

    20. LSLeah Smart21:36

        Yeah, yeah

    21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:36

        ... I'd be like, "This is, like, not a discussion."

    22. LSLeah Smart21:39

        We're not going here. [laughs]

    23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:40

        Yeah, trust me. Walk it back.

    24. LSLeah Smart21:43

        Uh-huh. [laughs]

    25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:44

        Because what I want him to understand is I'm overwhelmed with that.

    26. LSLeah Smart21:47

        That's it.

    27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:48

        And so I just think it, a- and so when I think I'm gonna throw this baby out the window, you're saying, "Ugh, that, that's not the real thing. The real thing is I love this baby."

    28. LSLeah Smart21:58

        And it's so precious and vulnerable, and it's in my control-

    29. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:02

        Yes, and that's-

    30. LSLeah Smart22:03

        ... in this moment
13. 22:56 – 24:32

    Why partners may not hear it: processing privately before sharing

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:56

       Yeah. I, I wanna ask you a question about those moments, those intrusive thoughts. How was or was not your partner involved in those?

    2. LSLeah Smart23:06

       Yeah.

    3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:06

       You know, did you share them? Did he know? How did that go?

    4. LSLeah Smart23:09

       No. I am, [laughs] I have a, I have the, the re- the, I'll tell you what this was like, and then I have a really s- absurd story about it. But, um, I am someone who, the reason I can sit here and talk to you about it today is because it's processed, and as someone who, like, cares a lot about self-development, um, and I do seek help, and I do want to learn, and I do wanna understand, I wanna do all of that. But I can't share until something has moved through my body and I can talk about it without going, "Oh my God." Like, even just now, when I was starting to tell you, I felt my heart race a little. I was like, "Ooh, I haven't talked about this in a while"

    5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:44

       Yeah

    6. LSLeah Smart23:44

       ... right? And, like, it is processed, and, you know, and I'm [laughs] gonna have another baby soon, and so I might be challenged again. Maybe not, I don't know. But, um, I am, I, and sometimes to my own, like, my own, my own peril, not, I mean, that feels aggressive, but is I, I like to do things alone. I like to go to my therapist and work through something, and then I can come back, and I can talk about it.

    7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:11

       Work through the mess-

    8. LSLeah Smart24:13

       My mess is mine

    9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:14

       ... a little more privately.

    10. LSLeah Smart24:15

        Yeah.

    11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:15

        And then I'm gonna share it with you-

    12. LSLeah Smart24:17

        Yeah

    13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:17

        ... when I get to that next step.

    14. LSLeah Smart24:18

        I clean up my side of the street, and I don't, I don't really share what that looked like before until it's clean.

14. 24:32 – 26:38

    Call to action and what’s next: Rattled subscription + Good Inside Baby launch

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:32

       That's Leah Smart, and this is Rattled. It's the show I wish I had when my first kid was a newborn, and it's the show I most want out in the world now. If you listened to these clips and felt something light up or just crack open, I want you to do two things. One, visit and subscribe to the Rattled podcast feed and listen to the full episodes. The link is in the show notes. And two, send Rattled to someone, the friend who's pregnant, the sister-in-law who just had a baby, the coworker in the third trimester who's been a little too quiet in the group chat, and, yes, please don't forget the dads and the dads-to-be. And one more thing I promised you at the top, we have a lot more coming for new and expecting parents at Good Inside later this spring, a home for the baby years inside the Good Inside app, sleep support, lactation expertise, feeding guidance, workshops, tools, stuff for your partnership and for you, and a whole community talking about their challenges and wins honestly each and every day. And it's all designed around one core belief: The best way to take care of a baby is to take care of the person holding the baby. If you wanna be the first to know when Good Inside Baby fully launches, I really wanna be able to tell you, and you can find that link in the show notes as well. Until next time, place your feet on the ground, a hand on your heart, and remind yourself, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I believe in you. You've got this. And I'll see you soon. [outro music]

Episode duration: 26:38