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Good Inside with Dr. BeckyGood Inside with Dr. Becky

What You Need To Know About The Emotional Lives of Teenagers

Being a teenager these days is harder than ever before. Not only are they dealing with the regular day to day of being a hormonal adolescent but they're also grappling with smartphones as the new foundation of their friendships, the pressures of social media, and trying to get into college in a much more cut-throat environment. Dr. Lisa Damour joins Dr. Becky to talk about how parents can navigate the teenage years and raise connected, capable, and compassionate adolescents. Join Good Inside Membership: bit.ly/3EVLZhj Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside Sign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletter Order Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books. Today’s episode is brought to you by Cerebelly: Cerebelly is baby food with 16 key nutrients that nourish a growing brain. Cerebelly’s organic, non-GMO recipes include vegetables as the main ingredient and offer nutrients that are matched to your child’s developmental stage. Cerebelly is Clean Label Project Certified, meaning they’ve been rigorously tested for over 400 heavy metals and toxins. Use the code GOODINSIDE for 20% off your first order and get an additional 15% off when you sign up for subscribe & save at cerebelly.com

Dr. Lisa Damourguest
Mar 7, 202342mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:18

    Why teens “lose it” at home: home as a safe place to fall apart

    1. LD

      I think that, Becky, if you or I were to try to do a teenager's day, by third period, we'd be like, "I'm out. I'm done. I'm not putting up with one more adult who's telling me what to do," or, "I cannot stand that kid who is sitting next to me, and I can't take it." They put up with a huge amount. [gentle music]

    2. BE

      Dr. Lisa Damour gets teenagers. She's a clinical psychologist with 30 years of experience working with the pressures, hormones, and emotions of teens. So if you have a teenager in your home, or if one day you will have a teenager in your home, then turn this episode up.

    3. LD

      We very rarely, with teenagers, in our own homes, get a very good picture of their overall mental functioning because they are more vulnerable at home. They are more likely to express concerns. They are more likely to fall apart, and we should not generalize that to think that that's what's happening. And I would say, like, usually, like, a huge, massive majority of the time, the fact that they can lose it at home, or fall apart at home, or be weepy, or kind of all over the map at home is what allows them to be the sturdy, solid, reasonable human beings they are under conditions that are actually quite difficult.

  2. 1:18 – 2:21

    Why Dr. Damour wrote a new teen book: pandemic fallout and mental-health misconceptions

    1. BE

      Dr. Lisa Damour now has three books on teenagers, and all of my friends with older kids have told me that they are required reading. She's the author of Untangled and Under Pressure, and now she's written a book for teens of all genders, The Emotional Lives of Teenagers: Raising Connected, Capable, and Compassionate Adolescents.

    2. LD

      I really wasn't planning [laughs] on writing another book. I was, I was sort of taking a little bit of a breather. But the combined effects of teenagers suffering as they did through the pandemic, and then also the cultural understanding of what makes for mental health and how we help kids with distress becoming a bit off course, in my mind-

    3. BE

      Mm-hmm

    4. LD

      ... I really felt like it was time for me to try to lay out what we know from the academic and clinical side about what healthy development looks like and what actually the place of distress in our lives is, which is actually a very important part of our lives, and to try to offer reassurance to parents that there's so much they can do in their own homes to care for their kids.

  3. 2:21 – 3:08

    Redefining mental health: feelings that fit the context + coping that helps

    1. BE

      I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. So mental health and teens. I feel like this has been a headline everywhere, the statistics, right? So just mental health, how do you think about that term? What is mental health?

    2. LD

      So really, the book centers on a definition that I... The way I describe it, but, you know, you're a clinical psychologist. I think, you know, it's how we all think about it together, is that mental health is actually not about feeling good, and this, this is a huge issue because I think that equation has emerged in our culture. Rather, it's about having feelings that make sense in the context you're in, and then, most importantly, being able to handle those feelings well, in ways that give relief and do no harm. So there's a lot of room for distress in how we talk and think about mental health.

  4. 3:08 – 5:07

    A “crappy week” vs. a true crisis: spotting the fork in the road

    1. BE

      Let's just jump right into an example there. I'm just gonna paint a picture. And maybe could you respond, like, from the feeling good standpoint, here's what a parent would think a kid should look like, and from a mental health as defined by Dr. Lisa Damour standpoint, here's what it would look like. Okay. So my kid gets cut from varsity soccer. My kid is in a lot of really difficult classes, is not doing as well as they might like. A couple of their friends start dating people. They feel like, "Nobody likes me. Actually, I feel like I don't look as old as the other kid." Okay. I'm gonna stop.

    2. LD

      Yeah.

    3. BE

      Give me, like, the fork in the road because I always think our framework determines how we feel, what we do, and I think you're talking about a big framework shift. So let's lay those two things out.

    4. LD

      Sure. And, I mean, no, and I love what you just described. I mean, you just described a week in the life of a teenager, right? Like, everything you're describing is, like, right down the middle of the road of what families are living with. And so let me just zoom us out a little and then zoom us back in. Everything you're describing is going to upset a kid, right? Getting cut, struggling academically, feeling like they're a little bit on the out of what's happening on the social scene, and all of those things are gonna foster distress. Like, there, there's no getting around that. And what you said about the headlines, I think that part of what parents are up against right now is that in a lot of the headlines around the adolescent mental health crisis, which is real, there's no meaningful distinction made between adolescents being in distress and adolescents having a mental health crisis. And so what I am up against in my clinical work is parents who are living with a kid who's having that crappy week, right, that week that is completely garden variety, seeing tons of distress and thinking, [gasps] "Do we have a major mental health concern because my kid is in so much distress?" So that is what's scary. Okay. So to go to your idea of, like, okay, let's... Where's the fork in the road?

    5. BE

      Yeah.

  5. 5:07 – 8:49

    Costly vs. non-costly coping: what parents should actually monitor

    1. LD

      If your kid gets cut from a team, as they do, we should fully expect they will be upset about that, right? They will be... You know, it, it could, it has vast implications sometimes for kids, and it's very, very distressing. The presence of distress is actually not something that you or I, Becky, become alarmed by. In fact, this is the real fork in the road, it's evidence that the kid works perfectly, right? [laughs] It's evidence of their mental health.

    2. BE

      Yes.

    3. LD

      Okay. Where the road forks is what happens next.

    4. BE

      Hmm.

    5. LD

      Okay. So does the kid who is sad about getting cut from the team or mad about getting f- cut from the team go listen to angry or sad songs to kind of catalyze those feelings and have them out a little bit, talk to their good friends about what happened, and get some support, maybe cry? Crying is a great way to express distress that does no harm and gives relief. Maybe go for a run. Maybe then resolve to figure out how they're not gonna have this happen next year or what else they're gonna put in that place. Okay, so that's- As good as it gets. Those are the outcomes we're looking for. Where we become concerned, and there are places, right? It's not like all of this is okay. Where we become concerned, if the kid is like, "I am so upset, I'm gonna get super high to deal with this, and I'm gonna stay high all week until the feeling dies down," or, "I'm gonna get on social media and be really crummy to the kids, you know, about the kids who made the team," or, "I am going to hop on my video game and be there for a week-

    6. BE

      Mm

    7. LD

      ... so that I don't have to think about this, and cut out all other aspects of my lives, my life," then we're like, okay, so the kid is getting relief, you know, trashing people on social media is coping, you know, getting high is coping, hiding in video games is coping, but it's relief that comes at a cost.

    8. BE

      Mm.

    9. LD

      And so what we're looking for is coping that is not costly. As long as your kid is coping in ways that are not costly, that's as good as it gets. That's adolescence at its absolute best.

    10. BE

      Mm.

    11. LD

      The distress is a done deal.

    12. BE

      So, you know, this lines up with something I think about a lot, about feelings and reactions to feelings. And often when we see our kids really upset, we're like, "Oh, no, my kid is, my kid's really sad," or, "My kid feels so left out," or, "My kid feels less than the other kids." Our kids are gonna feel upset and left out and less than feelings for the rest of their lives. I, I just know this as a fact, 'cause I feel that still as adults, right? Like, the feelings are part of, like, human [laughs] existence. And-

    13. LD

      Yeah

    14. BE

      ... how we react to the feelings, how we learn to cope with the feelings, that's, like, that's where it's at.

    15. LD

      That's where it all hinges. It's where it all hinges. And I will say, so I have a daughter who's 19 and a daughter who is 12, and so I've done... I'm on both ends [laughs] of adolescence, actually, as a mother myself, and I will say, there is such value in having seen what intense adolescent emotionality looks like in your own home.

    16. BE

      Hmm.

    17. LD

      And I will tell you, Becky, like, my kids are great. They're doing great. They're sturdy, fabulous kids. I'm really lucky, and I know it. But that experience of seeing the full strength of a teenage emotion, I can hold two things in mind at the same time. One is, that is harrowing. That is [laughs] terrifying, right? That is so intense. Even if it turns out an hour later, the kid doesn't even remember [laughs] what it was that made her so upset. And then side by side with, by that, thinking, "Okay, I'm a psychologist. I've seen a lot. I know that this is actually not grounds for concern." But I've had moments in my own parenting where I have thought, "If I did not know this is standard fare, I would be terrified right now."

  6. 8:49 – 10:24

    The intensity of teen emotions (especially around 13) and why it can be normal

    1. BE

      Like what? Give us, like, give us some examples. This is part of adolescence. Like, it's hard, it's gonna be tricky, and it's part of it.

    2. LD

      Absolutely. So, and one of the stories I tell in the book is about a friend who I had lunch with, who I see her shortly after Christmas, and she's like, "Oh my gosh, I almost called you." And what she goes on to describe is that her daughter, who has just turned 13, had meltdown after meltdown through the holidays over things that were, even to the girl herself, small. She didn't get what she wanted from the grandparents, and it, that wasn't the issue. She just felt bad about not wanting it. She was really sorry to see Christmas getting, you know, put away. And the kid's response was that she was doubled over, sobbing. Doubled over. And even as she was doubled over sobbing, the kid was saying, "I feel crazy. I feel like I do not know what's happening." Because that kid could hold two things in mind, like, one, [laughs] "I am overreacting," and two, "I cannot stop." And so I was so glad my friend brought it up, 'cause I could say, "Okay, what you are describing as really, like, outrageous as it feels in the moment, that's standard fare," especially the kid was 13. 13 is a wildly dysregulated time in emotional development. And so having that awareness that the distress, even at that volume, is not necessarily grounds for concern. What the kid does next is what we wanna pay attention to. That was thankfully reassuring to my friend, but that's the kinda stuff I'm talking about, that parents are like, "What is this, and how worried do I need to be?"

  7. 10:24 – 16:27

    What to do during a meltdown: be the steady container (even if you fake it)

    1. BE

      So I imagine a parent listening to this right now being like, "Oh, okay, that's relieving." And then I feel like a lot of them have this question. Lisa, so when that happens, like, what, what should I do? What should I do in that moment with my kid?

    2. LD

      Okay. I think the first thing we have to do is to serve as a steady presence, even if that means we have to fake it. [laughs] I really, I really mean that. And I'm not a big believer in faking it, but here's the thing. When your kid is out, freaked out, it is very easy as a parent to meet them right there.

    3. BE

      Yes.

    4. LD

      And here is why either we wanna try to be steady or we wanna pretend as though we're steady outwardly, because the first thing that's gonna happen, and you know, I use this analogy all the time, and this comes up in your work all the time, right? If we think about toddlers, they fall down and scrape their knee. They look at their knee, and then the next thing they look at is your face. Okay. So the adolescent equivalent of that is the kid is doubled over sobbing over Christmas gifts, and they are really, really alarmed by it. They are looking at what's happening, and then they're gonna look at your face.

    5. BE

      Yeah.

    6. LD

      And if you are on the ceiling, the experience for that 13-year-old, so I, you know, like, I'm 52, right? So if you're on the ceiling, the experience of that is, "Okay, I thought this was a 13-year-old size problem, but the 52-year-old is freaked out. This is a 52-year-old size problem. This is terrifying to me." So part of what we are doing is, with our composure, helping keep it down to size. So that is the first thing you do, and it can be really hard.

    7. BE

      I'm curious what you'll say the second or third is. I mean, I actually think for everyone listening, like, that first thing, I don't know, I feel like it's probably like 95% of the thing. And it's also, like, whatever the other 5% probably doesn't matter that much if we can't kind of work toward at least that first step. And I, I always think about things visually too, and it is. A teen, a toddler, i- an adult, you know, to adult relationship. When one person is so dis- ... regulated. Their feelings are greater than their ability to cope with those feelings in the moment. It's like a tornado, right? And if you picture a tornado, like, a spiral in a big glass container, the tornado can only go so far. You're like, "Oh, there's a tornado," but it's contained, literally. If you picture a tornado without a glass container, you're like, "Oh, that, that's, that's not as safe in my house." And when we're steady, when we're fake and steady, when we're saying, "Okay, Dr. Damour said this is normal, this is normal. My kid's good. Nothing's wrong with me or my kid," we are the container for a kid's tornado. When we, and I've been there too, I know Lisa's been there, we all add our tornado to our kid's tornado, and we always will, and just hope to do it a little bit less over time. But when we add our tornado to a kid's tornado, of course, the tornado gets bigger. It's not even our fault. It's just like, that's like, I don't know, it's like physics or weather. You know? It's just like, it's just what happens.

    8. LD

      Yep, and it is hard. And, and I, yes, I've absolutely been there as a parent. I have absolutely thought, like, "Okay, if I can't keep it together with all of my training and knowledge, I can't imagine what this feels like for other families in their homes," right? I mean, it's such a good thing to have your own children if you're helping people with their children. [laughs] And so I just agree with everything you're saying, and I also agree, like, if you could get that, you know, the steady presence right, that container right, probably doesn't matter much what happens next. Though I do, I do in the book, and I do try to be, like, incredibly concrete in the last two chapters of, like, let me give you 10 strategies for helping kids express emotions. Let me give you 10-

    9. BE

      Mm-hmm

    10. LD

      ... strategies for helping them get things back under control. So I do really try to equip parents with, I call them a playbook, playbook four, playbook five, right? Like, chapters four and five. And usually, the first play is you let the kid talk.

    11. BE

      Yeah.

    12. LD

      You let them talk and talk and talk. And I love your tornado analogy. Like, it can only go so far.

    13. BE

      I always say it can only go so far. And how, it's such an act of love. And if you think about yourself, like, I always think, imagine I went to, like, a party, right? There was, like, some big party with, like, everyone I knew, and I was just, like, in a mood, okay?

    14. LD

      [laughs]

    15. BE

      And I was going around to everyone.

    16. LD

      Yeah.

    17. BE

      You know, my husband was there, too, just being like, "You're the worst. I hate you. Like-

    18. LD

      [laughs]

    19. BE

      ... I hope awful things happen to you in your life." I don't know, right? If my husband, like, kind of did pick me up and, like, carry me to a room and sit with me, and just be like, "Look, something's going on, but, like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let this thing destroy the world around you, because you're not gonna feel good about it. It's not 'cause I'm embarrassed."

    20. LD

      [laughs]

    21. BE

      "It's 'cause, like, I know you. Like, this doesn't feel good to you."

    22. LD

      Mm-hmm.

    23. BE

      "I'm gonna sit with you, and we're gonna be in the smaller room as a container." It's not done because we're mad at our kids. It's done because we're on the same team, and we're still protecting our kids.

    24. LD

      Absolutely, and one of the beauties of adolescence is, right, they suddenly have a whole lot of language.

    25. BE

      Yes.

    26. LD

      And, and so I think about, you know, the toddler version of containment and the adolescent version, and containment meaning, like, helping kids get things back under control. So teenagers will talk, and, and one of the studies I detail in the book that I need the reminder as a parent, is that the act of expressing one's emotions actually confers its own relief. You know, we do neurological studies where we put electrodes on people's skin to check emotional arousal, or we look at the activity of the amygdala in real time in their brain to check emotional arousal. And when we ask people, we've put photos in front of them of distressing things, you know, natural disasters, things like that, and to half of them, we say, "Tell us what it feels like to look at this photo," and to half of them we say, "Tell us the facts of the photo." No one is responding. They're not e- they're not even, they're in a machine. They're alone. But the mere act of saying, "I feel really anxious, I feel really upset, I feel really worried," or whatever it is the kid is feeling, we see from these objective physiological markers actually brings their distress down. So I think for us as parents, like, so step number one, fake or actually be a steady presence. Step number two-

  8. 16:27 – 18:03

    How to *be* steady: manage your face, use minimal words, communicate ‘I’m here’

    1. BE

      Can you double-click step number one? So for parents, like, "Okay, I'm gonna do that," but, like, do, do I say certain words? Like, what words? What, is it just do I take a deep breath and say something to myself to calm my own body? Like, what... Let's just give them one thing, like, a steady presence, maybe we each could, could mean what? What are two different ways to be a steady presence?

    2. LD

      Okay, so one is I, I mean, I think a lot of it is, like, manage your face, right? [laughs] 'Cause the thing is about our kids, I don't know if your kids are doing this with you yet, but, like, they will pick up my mood before I have picked up my mood. They'll be like, "What's going on?" And then I'll realize that I'm holding my face in a way that I wasn't-

    3. BE

      Hmm

    4. LD

      ... even conscious of, but that they're aware of. So I would say first thing you do is think, like, can you put a calm, reassuring look on your face? Like, that would be the place I would have you start, and it may involve taking some breaths.

    5. BE

      Hmm.

    6. LD

      Maybe rubbing their back, right? I mean, language is probably not gonna be your best friend here, right? You probably are gonna do this almost entirely non-verbally. And one of the analogies I've played with at times is, um, you know, if your kid is flooding, you need to be an emotional sandbag, right? So, like, whatever sandbag looks like to you, that's you in that moment.

    7. BE

      Great. So I love that, and I, I agree. Our kids feel our intention more than our words. Sometimes words can put our intention into action, so I think another option, I just find there's something about saying to a kid when they're really upset, like, "I believe you, and I'm here."

    8. LD

      Mm-hmm.

    9. BE

      That, like, is kind of like, I see the tornado, I believe it's real, and I am that container. I'm here. So, you know, I think that's great. Like, check your face, and maybe if you want language, or, like, I know, like, what do I say? I need that sometimes, too. Just try that. "I believe you, and I'm here." So simple.

  9. 18:03 – 18:45

    Step two: let them talk—why listening is real regulation

    1. LD

      Yep, I love that. I love that. Okay, so then step number two is let the kid talk.

    2. BE

      Hmm.

    3. LD

      Just let them talk. I mean, just listen, listen, listen, listen. And it feels like nothing. It feels inadequate. And what I love is when you try it and make space for it, you get reinforced in doing it again, 'cause kid is like, "Oh, thank you so much," and then you're done, and you're like, "That's it? That's all it took?" [laughs]

    4. BE

      So when you say listen, because- Like, presence is an action. It feels like nothing, but I always say that to myself, "Becky, presence is an action." And I feel like what you're insinuating, Lisa, is like less is more- [laughs]

    5. LD

      100%

    6. BE

      ... from a parent.

  10. 18:45 – 21:17

    The ‘editor’ technique: summarize their rant with a headline (without fixing)

    1. LD

      100%. But I also, let's just go deeper on this idea of, like, presence while listening. So one of the strategies i, I offer in the book is something that I find I need, especially when a kid is upset and I'm moving into activating, wanna give advice, wanna sometimes just shut it down mode, to be honest, is to think about what really to listen means. And what it means is-

    2. BE

      Mm

    3. LD

      ... what I use is the idea of, like, I pretend that I'm an editor, and that the kid's rant or meltdown or whatever is my reporter reading me their article of their distress, and my job is when they get to the end of the article, I have to produce the headline. So I am distilling, I am not adding, I am getting the essential meat of it back to them. And what you say, Becky, about, like, they sense our intention, if you are listening so hard because you have, you know, to come up with a headline at the end of that article, they will sense that, right? They can tell, "Oh, she's really listening. She's not waiting for me to pause just to tell me what to do." Right? "She is actually, actually listening." And I will tell you, I very rarely get to a good headline. Like, I very rarely... I'll, I'll tell you the one time I did a really good job, and it's in the book because I think it's helpful to have an example, but mostly I don't [laughs] or I blow it. But it doesn't matter, because like you're saying, they can sense that you are all in on paying attention. So I'll give you the good example. My older daughter was a high school sophomore when the pandemic struck.

    4. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    5. LD

      And I would say end of March, early April, the full reality of what had become of school really, I think, snapped into focus for her, and she'd been home obviously for a few weeks at that point. I remember we were standing in the living room, and she had a rant, and she was like, "Oh, my God. Like, they have taken away lunch. They have taken away seeing my friends. They have taken away clubs. They have taken away sports. They have taken away dances. They took away everything fun, but they left us the APs. They left us the homework. They left us the lectures. They left us the duties." And she was just beside herself, rightly so. And I listened, listened, listened, and, and at the end, I said, "Oh, honey man, it's like school is now all vegetables, no dessert." And she goes, "Yes." And then she walked out, and for the next hour, she was okay. [laughs] You know what I mean? Which honestly, under those conditions, that was as much of a win as we were gonna get, but that's what we're going for.

  11. 21:17 – 28:45

    Role-play: why ‘bright side’ advice backfires and what teens want instead

    1. BE

      Can we role play something? Can you give me a teenage rant? Because I think-

    2. LD

      Yes

    3. BE

      ... you know, I think one of the things that happens when you're a parent is you hear your kid say something, and you have this instinct like, "I'm gonna help them look on the bright side. I'm gonna tell them an example where that actually isn't true." And it's such well-intentioned, like, your gut is well-intentioned, but, like, it literally always in flames. But I feel like role playing it could be helpful. So you know teens' rants. Like, what-

    4. LD

      Oh, I love this so much, 'cause I, I, like, I truly love teenagers. Like, and I love how they describe the world, right?

    5. BE

      Yes.

    6. LD

      And describe their own worlds. Okay. So okay. So, um, oh, my God, you will not believe what happened today. So here I am in AP US History, and we were given an, a group project, and, like, I've got an A in that class. I've worked so hard for this A in this class, and the group project, the grade will actually affect our overall grade, and this kid Troy, who I have known since the seventh grade, he is one of the three people in our group, and he does nothing. [laughs] He does nothing. He is gonna be bossy and annoying and useless to us, and this kid is gonna destroy my grade.

    7. BE

      Sweetie, look, it just seems like you're focusing on, like, the worst parts of your group, and I'm sure the other kids in the group will, like, really help you out.

    8. LD

      You [laughs] don't get it, right? I'm still the teenager.

    9. BE

      What's my grade?

    10. LD

      Um, oh, yeah, D-minus, right?

    11. BE

      D-minus. Ugh.

    12. LD

      I mean, but, like, also, D minus, D-minus for what you said, but, like, A-plus for intention.

    13. BE

      Totally. But, but I actually, I'm gonna challenge-

    14. LD

      Okay, go for it

    15. BE

      ... I'm gonna challenge it. [laughs] Okay.

    16. LD

      You're gonna challenge your grade.

    17. BE

      We're all doing the best we can with the resources in that moment.

    18. LD

      Mm-hmm.

    19. BE

      And I know every single parent wants to do right by their kid, 100% of parents, and we've been fed over and over this idea, I think a lot of us were parented this way, that when people are upset, in distress, that our job is to, like, pull them out of that hole.

    20. LD

      Mm-hmm.

    21. BE

      Or I always think about it like they're sitting on some bench of, like, distress. I'm on the bench of I got the worst kid in my group, right? They're on the, ugh, Troy in my group bench, and my job is to pull them off that bench and be like, "Look at this sunny bench. It's the at least I have Anna," right? Where our job is to sit on the bench with them. The part of distress that's the worst is being alone in it. That's actually the only really impossible thing. And so, and in your example of, like, this, it sounds, again, it sounds like nothing. You're like, "Did I even do anything?" But I always feel like if I ask myself with my own kids, "Becky, what's the equivalent of just sitting on the bench?" Like, and then I know I'll be like, "Oh, that stinks."

    22. LD

      Mm-hmm.

    23. BE

      [laughs] Oh, you really wish Troy wasn't in your group. Oh, the one kid you didn't want. I feel like when you're starting this, I tell parents, just don't have the conversation without a pen. Write down what they say, and then read it back to them. And I don't know, like, is that, is that closer to an A? Like, what, what would you think a teen wants to hear?

    24. LD

      So y- this is what I love about teens. Like, they're very strongly opinionated. So you cannot take notes and read them back to them, that you will lose them right there, but you can do that with a younger kid, right? So don't do that. But I think, honestly, you said it, which is, and I was taught this by a ninth grader in New Jersey, what they mostly wanna hear from you is like, "Oh, man, that stinks. That just stinks." And I will tell you 90% of my parental utterances at the end of the day are like, "Tell me more" and "Oh, man, that stinks." Like, and that is all teenagers want. They're like, "Thank you. Thank you." 'Cause here's the way we wanna think about it from their standpoint. They got the group assignment in class, and they did not scream, throw themselves on the floor, look at Troy and scowl. In fact, they almost certainly walked over to Troy and were like, "Okay, what's your cell phone number? Let's see if we can find a time to work together this weekend." They were awesome. They were fantastic.

    25. BE

      They crushed it.

    26. LD

      They were crushed it. They, it did-

    27. BE

      Oh

    28. LD

      ... everything we would ever want. And the thing that allowed them to do it was the knowledge [laughs] that they were gonna come home and be like, "You are not even gonna believe what went down in AP-

    29. BE

      Oh

    30. LD

      ... US history today." So when they're bringing it, they're not bringing it like, "I'm bringing it because I have this problem I want your help with." Sometimes they are, and we, we can get to when that's happening. They are usually bringing it in the form of, "I have held myself together all day and been the solid, gracious citizen you want me to be at school all day, and I just am bursting to tell you this, and I need to discharge it as much as anything else." And a solid, "Oh, man, that stinks," is usually like, boom, the end of the sentence, job done.

  12. 28:45 – 35:46

    Social media: start with curiosity, acknowledge pros/cons, protect sleep

    1. BE

      Can you give us a little bit about that? I mean, technology, social media, neither of us grew up-

    2. LD

      Mm

    3. BE

      ... with this, right?

    4. LD

      Yeah.

    5. BE

      Not in those years.

    6. LD

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    7. BE

      How can parents help their teens kind of, like, I don't know, like, minimize the downsides or talk about it in a way that it doesn't just explode? Like, "You don't understand," you know? Any, any brilliant advice?

    8. LD

      [laughs] Oh, I have advice. You, you'll decide. [laughs]

    9. BE

      [laughs]

    10. LD

      Okay, so you said something I think wildly important, just in the framing, which is minimize the downsides. So one of the things that I know to be true about social media is that there's probably not a kid on the planet for whom it is not simultaneously both good and bad. And you have to start from that understanding because when we roll up on them like, "Oh, your social media's terrible, like, get away from your phone," you've already lost them because they're like, "You are making it clear you do not understand that this is where I have a lot of fun. This is where I have deep and meaningful connections with people I care about. This is a place where I'm creative. This is a place where I'm learning discourse at a level that is, like, way above what we had as teenagers." So if you leave that piece out, you're already talking to the hand [laughs] in some ways. So I think that the first thing we need to do is to recognize it has pros and cons, and the nice thing about teenagers is they'll be the first to tell you that. Again, I quote a kid in my book, "I love my phone, and I hate my phone." So meet them there. So get a lot of information. One of the ways to do this, and one of the ways I think to not have the door slammed in your face when you're trying to talk to your kid about social media, is to remember that what it means to them, we really don't understand. We never used it like they use it. We were not teenagers with it, and no one wants advice from somebody who doesn't really get it, right? Like, nobody does. And the analogy, this sounds kinda goofy, but it actually really works. If we come up to a teenager and say, "I need to talk to you about your social media," we should imagine the equivalent would be them coming up to us and saying, "I need to talk to you about your mortgage," right? [laughs] Because we'd be like, "Go away." Like, "What do you know about mortgages?" And so instead, if your teenager came up to you and said, "Do we have a mortgage?" [laughs] And you say, "Well, yeah, we got a mortgage." And then they say, "How does the mortgage work?" And then we explain how the mortgage works. And they say, "And what, what are we paying in terms of, you know, what is our current interest rate?" And da, da, da. And you give them all this information, and then if at the very end of that they were to say, "Do you understand that I think the rates have been adjusted, and you could refinance and save some money?" We'd be like, "Okay." [laughs] Right? But at least we'd be open to it.

    11. BE

      Yes.

    12. LD

      So we need to do the flip around social media.

    13. BE

      Love that. So what does that, like yeah.

    14. LD

      Yeah.

    15. BE

      What's the start?

    16. LD

      Say, like, obviously, like a lot of adults are on the ceiling about social media. How worried should we be? Like, ask your kid that question.

    17. BE

      Mm.

    18. LD

      How worried should we be? Like, what are the good parts? Like, ask them, "What are the best parts of this?" Like, w- you know, like, if suddenly phones just disappeared, like, what would you miss the most? How is it most useful to you? How does it serve you best? Like, go all the way down that road, and then say, "What don't you like? Where is it not helping you? Where is it ruining your mood?" So that's how to have the conversation. And then you can say, "Is there anything you wanna do differently? Is there any way I can help?" With a teenager, that's where you're gonna win. The other thing I will say is do not let it mess with their sleep. And it's so basic and so important, and I would say if you do nothing else, try not to have it mess with their sleep. And the best way to do that is to not have it in their bedrooms when they're supposed to be sleeping.

    19. BE

      Okay, so I'm just thinking of a parent who's like, "My kid's like, it's not, nothing bad about it. Like, leave me alone."

    20. LD

      Mm.

    21. BE

      "No, I don't have any problems with it."

    22. LD

      Mm-hmm.

    23. BE

      And you're thinking, "Ooh, there's a, there's a gap in how we're seeing this."

    24. LD

      Yeah.

    25. BE

      'Cause I see this, you know, my kid, you know, whatever it is, is spending so much time on there, or I see how it affects their self-esteem, or I actually know about some really tricky conversations that, you know, happened on some-

    26. LD

      Mm-hmm

    27. BE

      ... of these apps that, you know, they, they maybe didn't get caught for but could have, and it was, you know, not nice language. Like, how do you, how do you talk to parents about bridging this gap when maybe they feel like, "Oh, I'm not in the best place with my teen-"

    28. LD

      Yeah

    29. BE

      ... so I do get the, the hand-

    30. LD

      Yeah

  13. 35:46 – 42:41

    What parents get wrong + what helps relationships: agendaless presence and self-care

    1. BE

      So, so helpful. A couple kind of final questions for you, some maybe rapid fire. What do you think a teen would say as, like, the number one thing that parents kind of get wrong-

    2. LD

      Oh, I love-

    3. BE

      ... about teens?

    4. LD

      I love that question. I would say the number one thing, like, it's hard 'cause, like, I really, I, like, there's just so much you could say, but the number one thing, they like us, and they want us around. They like our company even. What they don't like is our agendas. And so what I would say is teenagers want to be with and near us. They like that a lot less when every interaction is, "Where are you with your homework? What's going on with that teacher? Show me where things are with your college applications. Why aren't you working out hard? You know, you know the tryouts are coming." That's where they have a harder time with us, but to be just quiet, present. I, I wrote a piece years ago about being a potted plant parent, right? Like, they just want you there. And I think it's easy for adults to not know this because it can feel very rejecting to have a teenager, but agendaless presence, man, that is what they're really looking for.

    5. BE

      I love that. Agenda-less presence. That is so good. Okay, two more questions. Biggest gap between the reality of adolescence as you've lived through it and your kind of clinical understanding of adolescence before you were in it?

    6. LD

      Oh, man, they complain so much. [laughs] I think that that was, that was the part, like, you know, when you're a clinician, you get doses, and they're focused on a particular problem that is usually, like, for lack of a better word, a real problem. As a mom, I just could not believe, starting by about third or fourth grade, that, like, 90% of what happens after school is, like, the rundown of indignities and injuries and insults, and that overwhelmingly just being like, "Oh man, that stinks," works beautifully. It's all they need. But I, I didn't expect the volume of detailed accounting of the day and its downsides. And also, Becky, and I think it's really important for us to say it, like, how much I don't like it.

    7. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    8. LD

      It's actually very unpleasant because I'm very tired at that point in the day. And the reason I wanna say that is I feel like parents, we need to know that other parents, too, are in their homes [laughs] feeling very not in the mood to hear the full grousing and the, you know, the full catalog of, of the day's injustices. But that doesn't mean the kids don't get to do it, and that doesn't mean it's not a beautifully working system for them to dump all their emotional garbage of the day and for us to go, "Oh man, that stinks. I'm so sorry."

    9. BE

      Yeah. Oh, so de-shaming. Okay. Something a parent listening can do today that's gonna make a difference in their relationship, even if their kid doesn't gratify the moment and say, "Thank you, Mom. Thank you, Dad. That was, that was so bonding." [laughs] What, what's something simple a parent could do today with their teen?

    10. LD

      I think if you're raising a teenager, you've gotta take really good care of yourself, and I also think you need other sources of gratification. So, you know, my 12-year-old still thinks I'm funny, wants to go to the grocery store with me. Like, we have a blast. I am very well aware that I am, like, on the clock. I'm stretching it already. And if all things go as they typically and healthily should, within the next six months, I am not gonna be her favorite playmate. And I feel really grateful that I have a lot of other sources of activity, a lot of other sources of feeling valued and useful in the world, because you're gonna need that. I mean, by 13 or 14, your kid is not gonna be the one who makes you feel good about yourself.

    11. BE

      Hmm. That is so provocative and deep and so, so good. For our kids' early years, o- often unconsciously, we can fill up on good feelings in ourselves through the way they need us, through the way they depend on us, through the way they lean into us when they're upset, and it can, it can really be like, "I feel very purposeful. I feel very impactful. Uh, this lights me up inside. Look. Look at this job I'm doing. There's, like, evidence." And that's really, uh, I think, really helpful to think about when you have a teen, definitely really helpful to think about also before you have a teen, of, "Okay, no judgment. What percentage of my good feelings about myself come from my kids?" Just like, "What, where am I on percentage? And if that's not a percentage that I think is good for me or will continue to work for me, w- what else could give me good feelings? What else do I like?" And that's so important for a parent, no matter how old your kid is, but I love what you're saying, Lisa. Like, when your kid is a teen, one of the best things you can do, yeah, for you, but w- for your relationship with them, is really lean into more of figuring out those things for yourself. Probably helps you tolerate when they're melting down and being rude because you're not looking to them to kind of fill you up in that moment. Oh, so good. [gentle music] Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com/podcast. You could also write me at podcast@goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world, and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like-valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Nuzum at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Natt, and Kristin Mueller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Ashley Valenzuela, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go: Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. [outro music]

Episode duration: 42:42

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