Good Inside with Dr. BeckyWhy Your “Easy” Kid Suddenly Changes (And What They Need From You) | Dr. Sheryl
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20 min read · 4,109 words- 0:00 – 1:01
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- SHDr. Sheryl
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- 1:01 – 2:02
When your “easy” kid suddenly feels unfamiliar
- SHDr. Sheryl
know what works. You know your kid. You've got this, and then you don't got this. Something changes. You're not exactly sure when, but you're sure it has. You don't know who their friends are. You don't know what makes them laugh. Your old ways of helping them calm down or open up just don't work, and suddenly you're facing this new reality. Your kid is becoming their own person, and some of their choices, they definitely don't make sense to you. This moment brings up a lot for parents. Am I losing influence? Should I step in more? If I loosen up, am I being too permissive? In today's episode, we're talking about that exact transition, the moment when kids start searching for more autonomy, and parents are left trying to figure out where the line is between
- 2:02 – 3:39
Podcast framing: The in-between years and what kids need differently
- SHDr. Sheryl
guidance and control. I'm joined by a mom whose son is about to turn 12. She's tuned into a moment when her son started feeling like a different person, and she had some big choices to make about how she was gonna grow alongside him. Welcome to The In-Between Years, a podcast from Good Inside, a show for anyone raising, caring for, or loving a tween or teen. I'm Dr. Sheryl, a clinical psychologist, mom of three teens, and the author of The Crucial Years. I've spent my entire career working with teens and their families. The in-between years are that stretch when kids are no longer little, but not yet fully grown. Friendships shift, emotions get bigger, identity is forming. Then there's social media, academic pressure, body changes, independence. So many moments that can leave parents wondering what it all means. It's a time of real growth, not just for kids, but for parents, too. This show is here to slow things down, to help you understand what's happening underneath the surface so you can respond instead of react. Because when you feel more confident, your kid feels it, too. Your child may be growing up, but they don't need you less. They just need you differently. Welcome to The In-Between Years.
- 3:39 – 6:10
Teresa’s story: A “super communicative” kid starts acting out at school
- UMUnnamed Mom
Hi, my name is Teresa, and I live in New York City. I have one 11-year-old boy, and I'm really excited to talk about what's been going on. I feel like we've been blessed with having a kid who has been relatively, um, easy, I would say. He is, um, super communicative. He, um, is great company. He listens. He's easygoing. He's funny. He's, um, I think smart. He's, you know, just an all-around great kid. Now in his-- he's 11, um, he's started to, um... things have started to shift a little bit and, a- and it-- regarding school mainly, and it was kind of, um, there, there was like a shift in me that I realized, okay, there's something happening with him that has not been happening before, and a, a couple of things happened at school. He all of a sudden stopped turning in assignments when he said he was turning them in, and then something happened where he used AI, uh, to do a short story, and he's actually a really fantastic creative writer, so it-- he didn't need it, but he did it, and I thought, "Well, hmm." Uh, and then the third thing happened. He had his Apple Watch on, is not supposed to have it on in class, and he used it on a math test. So it was like, okay, so this... So then the school reached out and said, "Listen, we-- this, this is unlike him, so let's get together and let's figure out what's going on." So we did, and, um, it was super-duper helpful. We talked to the school psychologist, the head of upper school, the, you know, the, the counselor, the teachers, and, um, what I learned from it was that this was, f- for him, a sense of trying to have, uh, agency in a, in a place where he felt like he didn't have much. You know, like when you're a kid, you wake up, and basically from the time you open your eyes until the time you go to sleep, you have maybe, let's say, 5% of your day when you're not being told what to do or not being expected to behave or perform in a certain kind of way. And even if you're not a parent, um, who is, like, really exacting and really, like, in- intense, it doesn't matter. You know, you're still being managed. Children are being managed all the time. So I think this was his way of Asserting his independence and throwing up some little cries for help, actually
- 6:10 – 6:54
School response: Treating behavior as data, not a character flaw
- SHDr. Sheryl
Uh, yeah, absolutely. So you had this experience. So there's like a couple of things that I hear that went well. Right? You're... He's, he's doing things that are uncharacteristic, and the people in his life, you and teachers, didn't assume the worst. It was like, "Hey, let's get together." Like, let's get together and le- let's figure this out, right? This behavior is data. It's telling us something. Maybe we don't understand it right now. So you get together. You all start talking about him, and it sounds like you and the school's first go-to thing wasn't punishment. You're not saying, "So then they suspended him because he violated a school policy around AI or something."
- 6:54 – 7:46
Autonomy and agency: Why a kid might cheat without academic struggle
- UMUnnamed Mom
No, they... Exactly. They told us, uh, in sixth grade if it... When this happens, um, their policy is to, um... You kind of get a pass the first time, and then you redo the assignment. Um, the second time it happens, you get a zero, and then you get to redo the assignment, and then they average the two. So the first is really a pass. They had him redo the assignment at, at school. Um, and he did brilliantly, and it was a great story and, you know, uh, you know, he did a, had a fabulous grade and, uh, which isn't the, the point except that he, he again wasn't using it because he was struggling, um, academically.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Right. Right.
- UMUnnamed Mom
He didn't need it.
- SHDr. Sheryl
He-
- UMUnnamed Mom
So-
- SHDr. Sheryl
Sure. So-
- UMUnnamed Mom
He was fulfilling another need
- 7:46 – 12:12
Connection vs. punishment: Avoiding shame spirals
- SHDr. Sheryl
... I'm trying to think about the parent who's listening right now and saying, "So we just give kids passes?" We, we just-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right
- SHDr. Sheryl
... tell them that, you know, it's okay. It's, you can cheat and, and it's okay. We, it's o- you know, you can get away with this. And so since you're a parent who's been through that and maybe been involved in a process that was probably a lot more supportive rather than punitive-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right
- SHDr. Sheryl
... what, what do you say to that? What do you say to the, like, probably the fear that parents have that if we allow this in any capacity, it'll not send them the right message?
- UMUnnamed Mom
Obviously... Well, I think it's obvious that children respond to connection and understanding in a positive way way more than they do to immediate consequence and punishment because then they feel shame immediately. Whereas, if you show the respect that you are asking for by giving them a little leeway and saying, "Hey, listen, I know that this thing is there for you, and it is really enticing, and this, this shortcut exists," I feel like that, it, you go with understanding as opposed to immediate punishment. Because otherwise, you've missed an opportunity to really help a kid understand what's going on inside them. Um-
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yeah. Like-
- UMUnnamed Mom
... 'cause all the external stuff is gonna, that's gonna be presented with all these things again and again and again.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yeah. I, um, I love that we're talking about this because it gives us that opportunity to say, first of all, he's 11, and we should have certain expectations of an 11-year-old, one of them being they lie. Right? The average child, I think, lies seven times a day, right?
- UMUnnamed Mom
Oh, really? [laughs]
- SHDr. Sheryl
Kids are gonna lie. [laughs]
- UMUnnamed Mom
[laughs] It's good to know.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Lie could be anything like-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah
- SHDr. Sheryl
... do you like my shirt? No, uh, yeah, I like your shirt.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right. Yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
You know, right? But sure, we've tried to quantify kids lying, but so kids are gonna lie. Kids are going to cut corners.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yep.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Kids are, at 11, trying to figure out, what am I good at, and what aren't I good at, and can I do things on my own? And so when we have this situation where, just like you said, it's an opportunity to teach, we wanna take that, right? So when I hear how it was handled, I, I think that it was handled in such a way in which internally, right? I get asked all the time, how do you teach, like, internal motivation? How do you get a kid to wanna, you know, get A's or study for a test if they just don't have it, and they're not doing it for us, right? And so one of the things is almost like what you said. Like, I got caught for something, and the fact that it even took him a little while to admit it was totally normal, right?
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm.
- SHDr. Sheryl
It's like he's, he's in fight, flight, or freeze. Like, what am I gonna do? And then he has this support system around him that says, "We actually have a policy in place for this because it's that normal." It's to be expected. People don't understand that once somebody feels shame, they, and if they internalize it, and they don't have a place to process it and somewhere to put it and move past it, what actually happens is their behavior gets worse, and we know this through the research from juvenile delinquency. Because what happens is if I felt shame, oh my gosh, I totally copied this essay, and nobody's there to process it with me, I get in big trouble. Now, basically, I create a story, especially at 11, like, see, I am a bad kid.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right.
- SHDr. Sheryl
And bad kids do bad things. So now I'm just gonna start doing more bad things because that's who I am. So at 11, he's on the cusp of what am I good at to who am I. If that had not been handled in that way and it would've been, like, internalized shame and a, you know, suspension, he could have gone into the next year or so just feeling like, what's the point of doing anything?
- UMUnnamed Mom
Totally.
- SHDr. Sheryl
I already am... Right? I've got a, a-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yep
- SHDr. Sheryl
... target on my back and so-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yep
- SHDr. Sheryl
... and, and I want people to understand that because that's how we have people who live in shame and, quote, "repeat mistakes"- Because once you're, once you're down, it's like, "I'm just down. I'll just stay down."
- 12:12 – 14:39
The “bad kid” question: Seeking reassurance of worth and love
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yep. It's so interesting that you said the bad kid thing, because the second thing that he did, the, um, using his watch, uh, that probably happened a week later, maybe 10 days later. And, um, the, uh, administrator who, you know, talked with him about it, he said to her, he asked her, he said, "Do you think that there are bad kids?"
- SHDr. Sheryl
Mm.
- UMUnnamed Mom
He actually said, "Do you think that there are bad kids?" And, um, she was the assistant head of... She's like the disciplinary person at, at, for the upper school. And, um, well, she said, "No. You know, I think that there are kids who, you know, have bad behaviors, but, you know, that doesn't make them a bad kid." And you know, I, I, he definitely hears the, "You know, you're a, a good kid and, uh, having a hard time," from me a lot and, um-
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yeah, let me-
- UMUnnamed Mom
It's-
- SHDr. Sheryl
Let me underscore what we just, what we just plotted out for him, right? He has this situation with homework, then he has this situation with AI, then he has this next situation, and even though it was handled, I think, extremely well, and he probably has done a lot of processing of it, him saying, "Do you think that there's such a thing as a bad kid?" That was the entry point into a conversation of, "Am I worthy? Am I forgivable? What happens when I make mistakes? Is there-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm
- SHDr. Sheryl
... a limit to your love for me?"
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right.
- SHDr. Sheryl
And so I just, even though it was handled really well, the sequence of things he did are a tr- are a trigger for us to realize, like, yeah, he was starting to spiral because-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm
- SHDr. Sheryl
... right, his shame was begetting more shame.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right.
- SHDr. Sheryl
"Oh, I'm gonna make one mistake, and then I'm gonna make one bad choice. I'm gonna make two bad choices, 'cause I already did one, so two." And I just want people to really see how that happens, and how, like, hanging in there with a question like, "Do you think there's such a thing as bad kids," you know, or any version of that, is a reason to say, like, "Oh, my God, don't be ridiculous," right?
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right.
- SHDr. Sheryl
We just do things like that. Um, so I'm wondering, through this experience, did you ever have a moment where you were potentially dismissive, or the not understanding moment, and you look back and you go, "Oh, that's what that meant, but I didn't understand that at the time"?
- 14:39 – 18:01
When parents lose it: Lying, iPad trickery, and fear underneath anger
- UMUnnamed Mom
Um, I think where I would lose it [laughs] was when he... Unfortunately, they do most of their homework on this, on the iPad, and I would ask, after some emails would come through, I would ask, you know, "Can you show me, um, that you submitted, you know, this homework?" And he would take it and sort of angle it a little bit so that I couldn't see, and pull up some other assignment and do, like, swift moves, swiping between tabs, to get something that looked like it was, and then, you know, so really go through a lot of machinations. Um, you know, not saying I didn't... Yeah, I yelled, you know, just like, "Why, what are you doing? What are you doing? Why won't you just show it to me?" And I'm like, "Okay, listen, I need a break." So I would go to the other room. I would just calm down. I, I... The being lied to in my face while also trying to, like, use trickery in front of me, where clearly I know what you're doing, I don't know, that just really got me. So it, it, it, it, that was where I definitely, like, judged and didn't, you know, I didn't dismiss. I, I leaned into, "This is wrong. What are you doing?" Um, the other, the other, like, more serious stuff I, I, I feel like I was, um, I, I tried as much as I could to understand. I really did. But the thing where I had zero patience was the, the swiping and the flitting about on the iPad trying to fake out, you know, the assignment. [laughs] Just still thinking about it now. Um-
- SHDr. Sheryl
[laughs] It gets you.
- UMUnnamed Mom
But that was the first... It really does. But that was the first thing that was happening, so maybe had I been able to, like, ask, "What was, what, what's up here? What's going on?" That was the first of the events that happened. So-
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yeah
- UMUnnamed Mom
... in hindsight, had I been able to kind of, you know, settle in with that, but I just couldn't under- I just didn't understand. I really didn't understand.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yeah. I wanna, I wanna say something about that, like, "I didn't understand." So when we don't, we, un- human beings and in our role as parents, when we don't understand something, it often provokes this like, "What are you doing? Why are you doing that?" Right?
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
And why we do that, though, is because we're scared.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Like-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right
- SHDr. Sheryl
... I don't understand this version of you. Who are you? What is this? Are you lying to other people?
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Is this just me? What are you doing when I'm not with you? Right? So it's so much more. And so I want every parent to hear, like, yes, you yelled. Yes, I have yelled as a parent. We lose it. We don't understand in the moment. We didn't say the right thing at the right time, right? But you step away, and you take a breather. The ability to go back and say, "You know, look, last night when you were doing all that trickery and trying to fool me, I got really mad and I yelled."
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
"And," this is, like, the two things, like, "while I am sorry I yelled, I really thought about it, and I'm just scared, 'cause I, I'm not understanding this." And I think once a kid hears, like, "I want to understand. I was scared-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm
- SHDr. Sheryl
... and that's why I yelled," and yeah, sometimes I do that.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah.
- 18:01 – 20:27
A practical de-escalator: Saying “Help me understand”
- SHDr. Sheryl
Right? 'Cause sometimes they do that too. We don't have to say, "And sometimes you do that." Like, it's, it's implied, right? Like, sometimes I do that. I, I get, I get scared 'cause- I, I just love you so much, and then I think about all these things go through my head, which again, an 11-year-old can absolutely resonate. They start going through all the things. "If I don't get on this team, and then I'm not gonna be friends with these kids," all right? And it just spirals, and then say, "But, like, I'm here today to say I want... Help me understand." I will say one of the most powerful statements I really work with families around is for people in systems and in families to just simply say the words, "Help me understand," because what happens is he's 11, right? So when he's 13 and 14, and now things can get pretty heated and explosive. Inevitably, I don't know a single kid that doesn't get out of their childhood without saying, "You just don't understand."
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
"You just don't understand," right? So I'm gonna say right now, every single parent needs to expect that from their kid, and what happens is in the heat of the moment, it's like, "Well, what am I supposed to understand? You're acting this, and you're doing it," right? And you just start fighting. If you're prepared now, or if you're in it now, the reminder is, "You're right. You're right, I don't, but I want to understand. Help me understand." It's three words. Totally disarms a situation.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
I don't know whether-
- UMUnnamed Mom
What-
- SHDr. Sheryl
... you've done that with your son or not, but I really just... Help me understand. And he's like, "Oh."
- UMUnnamed Mom
I don't know that I have. Yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yeah.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Um, but, and if he doesn't know, you know what I mean?
- SHDr. Sheryl
Mm-hmm.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Do you think that maybe just leaning, maybe just saying, "Help me understand," meaning, like, let's figure this out together, because my guess is he didn't unders- He didn't know why.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Mm-hmm.
- UMUnnamed Mom
I don't think he would've had the insight to say, "Oh, I feel like I have to do too many things, and I don't want..." You know what I mean? I don't know. Maybe, maybe he would've, um, but I think he was doing things from a place where he, he didn't really know necessarily why, um, he was doing them.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Sure.
- UMUnnamed Mom
That's what I... You know? Um-
- SHDr. Sheryl
I, I'm sure
- UMUnnamed Mom
... but I think maybe just-
- SHDr. Sheryl
And-
- UMUnnamed Mom
... even offering that I wanted to, wanted to understand, instead of just saying, "I don't understand," [laughs] which is what I did.
- 20:27 – 21:38
Letting go of “I know best”: Parenting alongside a growing person
- SHDr. Sheryl
Right, right, and being, and being angry. I think to just say, "I've got some ideas. I've, I've got some thoughts. Are you open to hearing them?" And if they're just like, "No," or, "Not right now," you say, "Okay, that's fine."
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm.
- SHDr. Sheryl
"I just, I'm really committed, though, to, to helping figure this out, so whenever you're open or ready, just let me know, or I'll check back in with you again, like, another time this week, and we'll, we'll see. Maybe you'll be open then," and truly respect it. It works wonders. It's just sorta like, it's like a forgiving hug almost.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- SHDr. Sheryl
But saying, like, "We're gonna circle back, and we're gonna figure this out, and I'm not gonna try to jam it down your throat-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right
- SHDr. Sheryl
... and throw a bunch of things, and I know better, 'cause I always have known better," right?
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right.
- SHDr. Sheryl
So at, at, at 11-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Another lecture, yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yeah, it's another lecture. It's another-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Right
- SHDr. Sheryl
... like, oh, of course you know everything, and I know nothing.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Right? And it's sorta like, "I'm gonna be on this journey with you side by side, but yeah, I don't always know you better than you, and you... I don't have all the answers," 'cause up until about now, you did have all the answers, pretty much.
- UMUnnamed Mom
I kinda did, yeah. [laughs]
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yeah, you kinda did.
- UMUnnamed Mom
[laughs]
- SHDr. Sheryl
And now you kinda don't.
- 21:38 – 23:25
Sad and sweet: Reframing low-stakes mistakes as valuable learning
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah. Now I don't. [laughs] Yep, and it's, it, it... I don't know. It feels, um, sad and it's sweet at the same time. Yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Yes. I love that you said that. It... I, I would agree with you. I think, you know, it, it feels hard because it is hard.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm.
- SHDr. Sheryl
It is sad and sweet at the same time, and even though we can say, like, "I know my job is to raise an adult. I know my job is for him to become independent of me," it still can be... Like, you're allowed to have those two feelings at the same time, right? It still can be really-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah
- SHDr. Sheryl
... hard, so I think sad and sweet is right. But really, when you, when you really boil it down, this was potentially an invaluable experience that happened at a pretty low-stakes time, right?
- UMUnnamed Mom
I agree.
- SHDr. Sheryl
Like, cheating-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah
- SHDr. Sheryl
... on a test or doing something like that at 11-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah
- SHDr. Sheryl
... is a lot less consequential than at 17.
- UMUnnamed Mom
100%, yeah.
- SHDr. Sheryl
And, right? So I also like to... It's not just, like, putting, you know, s- some rose-colored lenses on. It's, it's truly saying, "Phew, I'm really happy that you're learning the lessons you're learning now, and that you're doing the things that you're doing now while we're still connected, while you still are here, and while I can support you as you figure out is this the person you wanna be or not?" Like-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yeah
- SHDr. Sheryl
... that's a beautiful thing. So thank you for sharing that story, and for also-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Mm-hmm
- SHDr. Sheryl
... giving us all a different lens about how to think about consequences and-
- UMUnnamed Mom
Yes
- SHDr. Sheryl
... but really teaching through love. I really, I've really gained a lot from that. Thank you so much.
- UMUnnamed Mom
Thank you.
- 23:25 – 24:49
Closing takeaway: Guidance over control—stay close and steady
- SHDr. Sheryl
I wanna come back to something Theresa named at the start of our conversation, that shift from, "I'm the mom of a kid who listens and makes good choices. That makes sense," to, "Who is this kid?" This transition is jarring. It's also a really important developmental moment. When kids start trying on a new identity, taking new risks, our job begins to change. Our job isn't to control every choice they make. It's to stay close enough, steady enough, so that they can learn from those choices, while still feeling guided and supported. Let's end by zooming out. Deep breath. [inhales] [exhales] This in-between stage feels hard, because it is hard. If you remember nothing else, remember this: They act like they don't need you. They still need you. I'll see you next week. [outro music]
Episode duration: 24:50
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Transcript of episode VYNKaM7cSqA
