She vibe coded an iPhone app and launched it to the App Store with zero coding knowledge

1. 0:00 – 4:48

   Introduction to Bryce and Daily Hundred

   1. BKBryce Rattner Keithley0:00

      I built an app called Daily Hundreds. I opened Lovable and Replit actually on the same day, and left the simplest prompt. It was incredible to me that I could tell these AI tools, "I want this," and it spit out a very basic minimum viable product of it.

   2. CVClaire Vo0:17

      I asked you the other day, I was like, "Are you in TestFlight?" And you were like, "Yeah, I was in TestFlight." And so now it's in the App Store. You got it approved. It's ready to go.

   3. BKBryce Rattner Keithley0:24

      We have anthropomorphic animal demos.

   4. CVClaire Vo0:26

      This is my favorite part, and we're gonna see some pretty amazing ones. But can you walk us through how you generated this?

   5. BKBryce Rattner Keithley0:32

      I make the animal in Gemini. I film myself doing the exercise.

   6. CVClaire Vo0:38

      [laughs]

   7. BKBryce Rattner Keithley0:39

      And then I mash up the anthropomorphic animal with Bryce exercising to create the videos.

   8. CVClaire Vo0:45

      Were there any hard skills you felt like you developed as you went through this process?

   9. BKBryce Rattner Keithley0:49

      I got really good at copying and pasting, but I think I knew how to do that beforehand. [laughs] I don't actually really know what Railway does, and yet it's there now.

   10. CVClaire Vo0:58

       The fact that you, a very non-technical person, are buying or acquiring Railway as your infrastructure without really knowing what it is, is kind of amazing from a go-to-market perspective for these AI tools. And I'm sure saying what you don't know and then trusting the beep boop robot gods also helps you discover and push further than you would if you knew the boundaries of things. [upbeat music] Welcome back to How I AI. I'm Claire Vo, product leader and AI obsessive, here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. Today, I have my friend Bryce Rattner Keithley, who is decidedly not technical. She's actually spent her entire career in talent and people, but she has somehow beat me to the App Store with a vibe-coded fitness app, including customized animal videos for any workout you wanna do. She's gonna walk us through her step-by-step and show you how a beginner's mindset can mean you can build anything you want with AI. Let's get to it. This episode is brought to you by WorkOS. AI has already changed how we work. Tools are helping teams write better code, analyze customer data, and even handle support tickets automatically. But there's a catch. These tools only work well when they have deep access to company systems. Your copilot needs to see your entire code base. Your chatbot needs to search across internal docs. And for enterprise buyers, that raises serious security concerns. That's why these apps face intense IT scrutiny from day one. To pass, they need secure authentication, access controls, audit logs, the whole suite of enterprise features. Building all that from scratch, it's a massive lift. That's where WorkOS comes in. WorkOS gives you drop-in APIs for enterprise features so your app can become enterprise-ready and scale up market faster. Think of it like Stripe for enterprise features. OpenAI, Perplexity, and Cursor are already using WorkOS to move faster and meet enterprise demands. Join them and hundreds of other industry leaders at workos.com. Start building today. Bryce, to start our podcast, can you remind me, as one of your very good friends, are you technical?

   11. BKBryce Rattner Keithley3:16

       Claire, not at all.

   12. CVClaire Vo3:18

       Perfect. So just to get that out of the way for everybody listening, I have my friend Bryce here. She is talented in many, many ways, but I still have her beat on the software engineer index. And yet she has been the first of us that has vibe coded a iPhone app to production into the App Store. So you beat me, you beat me there. So tell me how you turned from your background, which I'll let you talk about a little bit, to a, uh, iPhone app developer.

   13. BKBryce Rattner Keithley3:48

       Yeah. So most of my career has been in talent and recruiting, and I've had the privilege to work with really talented, incredible technical leaders throughout my career. And on one hand, through working with these folks, you come to see how talented they are with what they build, and on the other hand, you come to see that they're living, breathing humans as well. And without being a computer scientist myself, there was this massive gap and full abstraction between who they are and what they could do. And with these new tools that came out, even going back to last fall, I kinda got an inkling of like, "Well, maybe I can try something too, and see what the magic is all about, and see what the highs you get from bebopping into a computer and having what you build show up on the screen."

   14. CVClaire Vo4:39

       So what did you build?

   15. BKBryce Rattner Keithley4:41

       I built an app called Daily Hundreds, uh, for consumer number one.

2. 4:48 – 6:16

   Building with Replit

   1. BKBryce Rattner Keithley4:48

      Um, the story dates back to the pandemic, where I spent 20 hours per day, every day, in this literal room, and wasn't moving, and had two young kids at home, and I craved exercise. And there was this very short-lived 100-pushup-a-day challenge that I started doing, but felt like it was boring and monotonous doing pushups every day. And I kind of thought, "I wish someone could just tell me something different to do every day. I would happily do 100 of them." And it kinda came back to mind. I've been doing it intermittently throughout of just jumping jacks or squats here and there between meetings, and I was like, "That seems like a lightweight thing that I can try." And so I opened Lovable and Replit actually on the same day, and left the simplest prompt of, "Hey, build me a tool called Daily Hundred that pushes a different exercise to me to log 100 reps." And it ended up building something remarkably fast. It's not what you'll see today, but it was incredible to me that I could tell these AI tools, "I want this," and it spit out a very basic minimum viable product of it. I ended up sticking with Replit 'cause I could phone a friend. I have a friend who's a director of engineering there, [chuckles] and I figured out that worst case, he could unblock me. But that was really how it started. And, uh, I built this, uh, starting in October, and I got it into the App, App Store earlier

3. 6:16 – 11:17

   The beginner’s mindset advantage

   1. BKBryce Rattner Keithley6:16

      this month.

   2. CVClaire Vo6:16

      So it took, it took a couple months, but walk me through a little bit of how you used Replit. I think this is a, a really great platform for folks who really wanna go zero to 100 into production. We had one of our early How I AI episodes with John Blackmon, our, um, 91-year-old vibe coding grandpa, who used Replit to build an app for his church. Replit, um, is pretty amazing when you're building stuff that has a database on the backend that you really want to be functional. So how are you interacting with Replit on a, on a kinda daily basis, and how are you moving forward the app? Just kinda tell me, tell me your process.

   3. BKBryce Rattner Keithley6:53

      I tend to think that a beginner's mindset can be used to your advantage here, because I truly don't know what I don't know. A big unlock, somewhat from your pod, is that there's a plan mode. Um, I would sometimes get myself in trouble by asking Replit, you know, "How can we change the progress bar?" The progress bar is like you're adding some reps, and now it's in a circle, but it started as a line. And initially I would say, "Let's change the progress bar to a circle," and it would just do something bananas. And, uh, I would have to quickly, like, undo that. We don't like that. And coming to see they have a plan function was really helpful, and profoundly changed how I would approach things. And tend to start really big picture of like, "Okay, robot, here's what your non-technical friend wants to do. How can we collaborate on our new idea?" It has a preview panel that y'all can see right here, which makes it really easy to see if you're on the right track or the wrong track. Sometimes it magically happens on the right track right away. Other times it goes on the wrong track many, many times over. But it's really all in, in one, and made things very simple to at least work at, at a small, at a small scale.

   4. CVClaire Vo8:14

      I have a question. So what concepts, development concepts or software engineering concepts, did you find yourself learning as you built this with Replit? Were there any things that you just kinda got, like, a little... You know, 'cause you've done technical recruit- recruiting. Again, you're friends with, with me, you're friends with dir- directors of engineering. You know, you've been around technology for a long time. But were there any sort of, like, hard skills you felt like you developed as you went through this process?

   5. BKBryce Rattner Keithley8:39

      Oh, gosh. Are there any hard skills that I felt like I developed? I got really good at copying and pasting, but I think I knew how to do that beforehand. [laughs] I got way better at labeling things so I could find things on my computer. I still don't think I know, candidly, any more about software than I did when I started, to the extent that, like, when I learned that, heaven forbid, I had to take my app from my precious Replit and move it to somewhere else before it can be an app. I moved it to Railway. I don't actually really know what Railway does, and yet it's there now.

   6. CVClaire Vo9:24

      [laughs] Okay. So I, I actually really, really love this. Let's just r- One, we're gonna say I got really good at copy and paste. We're gonna save that one for the trailer. But what I, you know, what I reflect on this is, like, you really are vibing. You are really the true vibe coder. And it's so interesting to me, you know, something like Railway, just like a hosting kinda platform. Uh, my friend, my friend works there. Uh, we, we know the CEO. We're, we're, we're good friends with Railway. We love them. But the fact that you, a very non-technical person, are buying or acquiring Railway as your infrastructure without really knowing what it is, is kind of amazing from a, from a go-to-market perspective for these AI tools. Because I think, you know, they used to be selling... I was in dev tools for a long time. They used to be selling dev tools to developers, and now non-developers are discovering dev tools, and it's just a totally different market. It's a totally different go-to-market. And I, again, I think you said something at the beginning, what I wanna re- reiterate for folk, folks, which is a beginner's mindset is, is how you say, and you are unabashedly fine with saying what you don't know. Saying you don't know, and I'm sure saying y- what you don't know and then trusting the beep boop robot gods also helps you kinda, like, discover and push further than you would if you knew the boundaries of things.

   7. BKBryce Rattner Keithley10:51

      I, I think so. I mean, sometimes I'm sure it's a limitation, or at least causes me to spend more money. But, like, as one example, it'll tell me, "Oh, look here for that thing." And I'm like, "No idea where you're telling me to go." So I'll send a screenshot of, you know, perhaps all of the library, and, "Which one? Where, where is that? Please give me more idiot-proof instr- ELI5 everything, or, or don't do it, and tell me where I plug in."

   8. CVClaire Vo11:16

      Oh,

4. 11:17 – 22:55

   Creating anthropomorphic animals

   1. CVClaire Vo11:17

      I, I love this so much, but one of the parts of Daily100 that I, I, I like, which is this is a, a really cool app, get up to 100 reps, is there's actually a little secret video function in here. I guess it's not secret, but we, we don't have it popped open. So let's pop it open and show folks the best part of the app, which are these videos of animals doing the exercise.

   2. BKBryce Rattner Keithley11:43

      We have anthropomorphic animal demos. Yeah, so it turns out that micro workouts, like exercise snacks, are really good for you. I won't rattle off all the benefits, but perhaps I'll share them with Claire for the show notes. And I did start sharing it with my network, even when it was small and just on Replit, and I would get text messages of, like, "What's a superman?" "How do I do a reverse lunge?" "What's a reverse pushup?" And I was like, "I've gotta, like, not be the single point of failure here." But then I got kinda stuck in the what person do I make? Is it all of me? I really didn't like that idea, and I thought we all have-... animals. And so I've created anthropomorphic animal videos for, I think there's two that don't have videos yet. Um, but they are all obviously AI-generated, and I've really kind of gone ham on these.

   3. CVClaire Vo12:35

      This is, this is my favorite part, and we're gonna see some pretty, pretty amazing ones, but can you walk us through how you generated this? Because it isn't just, "Make me a polar bear doing body weight lunges." It's much more complex than that. So I want you to walk us through step by step how you eventually got to being able to productionize these high-quality videos.

   4. BKBryce Rattner Keithley12:56

      Thank you. Yes, it did require a lot of trial and error, and it's still not, it's still not fully seamless. But I started in Sora, and fully prompting to describe the animal I wanted and the exercise I wanted to do, but found that oftentimes it would get good but not great results, and the prompting was really limited in terms of tightening things up or fine-tuning, and I found that just to be maddening. I ended up, and I can... I'll show you the process if you're interested-

   5. CVClaire Vo13:34

      No

   6. BKBryce Rattner Keithley13:34

      ... creating the animals in Gemini. I came to learn that the starting position for the animals was really key. Uh, Gemini wasn't doing the videos, but I was making the animals there. And my husband does a lot of work in AI, and he introduced me to Higgsfield. And so there's a ton of models in Higgsfield, and one of their capabilities is to merge, mesh, intertwine a still image with a motion video to have what's in the image doing what's in the video. And I've played around with a couple of the different models somewhat intentionally, somewhat unintentionally. I found that Kling is the model that works best for these videos. Fun fact, uh, Higgsfield was down a couple weekends ago, and I was fiending for more video creation, so I went and downloaded Kling separately, and it didn't make videos that were as good as Kling in Higgsfield. So I'm a Higgsfield loyalist. I make the animal in Gemini. I film myself doing the exercise.

   7. CVClaire Vo14:53

      [laughs]

   8. BKBryce Rattner Keithley14:55

      And then I mash up the anthropomorphic animal with Bryce exercising to create the videos in Higgsfield.

   9. CVClaire Vo15:02

      So technically you are in every video.

   10. BKBryce Rattner Keithley15:06

       As some say, you can imagine me in a mascot suit doing these because it's not that far off. Right.

   11. CVClaire Vo15:12

       Okay, so let's walk through that because you, you talked a lot about Gemini. I'm presuming you're using NanoBanana here. I wanna see it, and I wanna make a, I wanna make a video.

   12. BKBryce Rattner Keithley15:21

       Let's do it. Um, first of all, do you have an animal you wanna make?

   13. CVClaire Vo15:27

       Oh, I was not prepared for this. I can pick any animal?

   14. BKBryce Rattner Keithley15:32

       We're gonna try and make crunches or bicycle crunches, 'cause those are on my hit list.

   15. CVClaire Vo15:37

       Okay.

   16. BKBryce Rattner Keithley15:37

       So, but think about what would work, or I can, or we can workshop one together.

   17. CVClaire Vo15:42

       I have... You already have a, a, a cat here. So I have a little leopard lamp over, over here, so we could do a leopard.

   18. BKBryce Rattner Keithley15:49

       Let's do a leopard. Okay. So I really don't reinvent the wheel. Like I said, copy and paste. I'll take what I had. Create an anthropomorphic leopard in a gym setting wearing exercise gear. Do leopard. Its hands should be behind its head, elbows out to the side, head resting down on the mat. The head should be to the left, and the feet should be to the right. The knees should be positioned above hips, and the feet forward in a tabletop position.

   19. CVClaire Vo16:41

       I have to pause here as my friend Bryce writes this very precise prompt about accurate positioning on your crunches. I have to call out that she has a, um, a secret power here, which is she used to teach barre. And so being able to prompt somebody, knees over hips, feet shoulder-width apart, hands behind your head. Who knew that all those skills would come into prompting an AI image gen model to make a leopard doing crunches?

   20. BKBryce Rattner Keithley17:17

       It's really true. As I often tell people, like, you never know what lateral moves in your career are going to end up being tools that pay off in dividends later. And I am quite good at physical exercise cueing.

   21. CVClaire Vo17:33

       [laughs]

   22. BKBryce Rattner Keithley17:33

       And now I use it a lot.

   23. CVClaire Vo17:35

       Um, okay. Let's see what this gives us.

   24. BKBryce Rattner Keithley17:38

       And I know a lot of your guests like to speak. For me, some of the precision, I'm visual, so I like writing it out. Um, but I have found that we wanna leave no room for interpretation, and I'll often ask myself, "Can I be any more literal in what I'm describing?"

   25. CVClaire Vo17:59

       Okay. And we're using NanoBanana here in Gemini.

   26. BKBryce Rattner Keithley18:03

       We're using, in Gemini. Mm-hmm.

   27. CVClaire Vo18:06

       And it's creating your image. I have to call back to one of the earlier things you said, which is you originally, your MVP one was using Sora, and Sora is being sunset. So I'm glad you have a different flow here, 'cause you would've been deprecated out of Sora.

   28. BKBryce Rattner Keithley18:22

       RIP.

   29. CVClaire Vo18:23

       I know. RIP.

   30. BKBryce Rattner Keithley18:24

       Right?
5. 22:55 – 27:15

   Moving from static image to video

   1. BKBryce Rattner Keithley22:55

      about Higgsfield. Sometimes the downloads work well and download what you want, and sometimes it downloads something totally random. Like, it might give us a different animal than the one that we created, which is fascinating. So we'll see if it gave us the right one. It did. I save the animals by name. I save them in a starting positions folder so I can pull them for recall. I give the animal and I give the position that they're in so it's a little bit easier. And then do you wanna try and turn this into a video, Claire?

   2. CVClaire Vo23:27

      Yeah, let's turn it into a video. Yes.

   3. BKBryce Rattner Keithley23:27

      Okay. So then we go to Higgsfield, and Higgsfield has... It's like an embarrassment of riches in terms of how many options you have and what you can do. It can be a little bit overwhelming. But in this case, I use Motion Control. I use Kling 3. It's under the video option right here, so Kling 3 Motion Control. I add the motion. So in this case, we're going to pull my video.

   4. CVClaire Vo23:55

      Mm-hmm.

   5. BKBryce Rattner Keithley23:55

      And this is gonna be crunches. We're gonna do crunches cut 'cause it's shorter. Unfortunately, all of these exercises are not in my living room, and that's what you would see if we didn't have this magic tool. And then we start, find the position that we want, and this was our leopard in the supine position. It lets you choose the scene control, so in this case we're choosing the image.

   6. CVClaire Vo24:20

      Mm-hmm.

   7. BKBryce Rattner Keithley24:21

      Still loading our video, or still loading our image. Excuse me.

   8. CVClaire Vo24:25

      So just to call out for folks, a couple things that I notice if you're not watching on the YouTube. So Bryce took a video of herself doing these crunches with her legs in the tabletop position. Very good form. Excellent work, my friend.And a, a couple things I notice is you're... I, I see now why you prompted for the head to be at the left, because you don't want the video to be mirror image of the, the, um, image. And so you put these two image and video side by side. They're roughly the same shape of character. You're using this Kling 3.0 motion control model, and then you're saying the image is what's gonna control the scene versus the video is gonna control the scene, 'cause you don't want the videos in your living room. You want the videos in 24 Hour Fitness Animal Edition.

   9. BKBryce Rattner Keithley25:10

      Correct.

   10. CVClaire Vo25:11

       Okay, great.

   11. BKBryce Rattner Keithley25:11

       Exactly.

   12. CVClaire Vo25:12

       And then you click generate.

   13. BKBryce Rattner Keithley25:13

       And you click generate. And it does require patience. They tend to take quite some time. Um, you can tend to do, I can maybe do three or four before it gets overwhelmed, so I might queue some up if I have my videos and my images ready. But it is, you know, go for a walk, do some of your Daily Hundreds, get a set in, um-

   14. CVClaire Vo25:34

       [laughs]

   15. BKBryce Rattner Keithley25:35

       ... and, um, it'll eventually get you your video.

   16. CVClaire Vo25:38

       Amazing. So we'll let this process and we'll come back and see what we got.

   17. BKBryce Rattner Keithley25:41

       Do you wanna see some of the past ones while it's working?

   18. CVClaire Vo25:43

       Yeah, let's do it while it's loading.

   19. BKBryce Rattner Keithley25:45

       Okay. So there have been a lot of friends that we've made. Um, we have animals and we have mythological creatures, uh-

   20. CVClaire Vo25:54

       Love it

   21. BKBryce Rattner Keithley25:55

       ... for making sure we're getting good coverage. There's a goblin, there's a cat, there's a fox, flamingo. Um, some of them I'm able to get on the first try, some of them take a while, and some of them are just, like, real, real tricky. Um, I'll show you one that I think you... demonstrates, like, how AI can, can do you wrong. So I wanted to demonstrate swimmers, which is a great postural exercise for us people with desk jobs. Oh, excuse me, Supermans. So it's laying down, it's lifting all of its limbs up off the ground. It's using your postural muscles, it's using your glutes, basically your whole back chain. This is what I wanted. This is our genie doing some Supermans. But-

   22. CVClaire Vo26:37

       Do your hands have to be like that when you do Supermans? [laughs]

   23. BKBryce Rattner Keithley26:40

       No. You got a lot of choice. Um, this was just his style. But as you can see, we got real close the first time. I was pretty happy with this, except the feet stayed up, and we don't want people to think that they've gotta do this unreasonable exercise the whole time. And sometimes I'll have to get in there and give it some more encouragement, some more literal guidance.

   24. CVClaire Vo27:04

       [laughs]

   25. BKBryce Rattner Keithley27:05

       It's so bad. The genie's legs should start on the floor and lift up at the same time as the arms, instead of staying elevated the whole time. What?

6. 27:15 – 30:46

   The floating genie and other anthropomorphic animal generations

   1. CVClaire Vo27:16

      I, I don't even know if I can describe what I'm seeing on screen right now. Um, you just really go to the... We'll, we'll make sure this is bookmarked in the YouTube so you can see this. Um, I mean, the genie is floating. There is some body part, uh, maybe a foot, maybe something else, just on the ground. And, um, he's doing nose dives into the yoga mat. And so, you know, ag- oh, he's only got one leg. It must be his foot. You can see it kind of floating behind him.

   2. BKBryce Rattner Keithley27:48

      I think it's his foot.

   3. CVClaire Vo27:49

      Yeah. Very odd. Um-

   4. BKBryce Rattner Keithley27:51

      Very odd. Not approachable for us actual humans.

   5. CVClaire Vo27:54

      No, not at all.

   6. BKBryce Rattner Keithley27:55

      So we need to change that.

   7. CVClaire Vo27:57

      Was there one that you did that surprised you how effective it wor- like an animal you thought it wouldn't really work out and it ended up being pretty high quality?

   8. BKBryce Rattner Keithley28:06

      Oh, a million percent. Um, this was my kids' recommendation. They wanted me to make a turtle, and I was like, a turtle feels like not the animal at the gym, first of all, but, like, the, the shell would be a bit prohibitive. But, like, look at our friend doing these cross body stepping presses. He's so friendly.

   9. CVClaire Vo28:30

      Looks great.

   10. BKBryce Rattner Keithley28:30

       And-

   11. CVClaire Vo28:30

       I mean, turtles are historically known as ninjas, so I'm not surprised that it-

   12. BKBryce Rattner Keithley28:34

       That's, that's true.

   13. CVClaire Vo28:36

       That it worked.

   14. BKBryce Rattner Keithley28:37

       That's true. This is maybe its origination. Even doing curtsy lunges.

   15. CVClaire Vo28:40

       Look at this little friend doing curtsy lunges.

   16. BKBryce Rattner Keithley28:42

       Oh, yes. He's got a nice little demeanor. He looks approachable and friendly.

   17. CVClaire Vo28:47

       Oh, Bryce, you know that I do ballet. Can you make me turtle ballet?

   18. BKBryce Rattner Keithley28:54

       That's for our next installment.

   19. CVClaire Vo28:56

       Okay, perfect. So let's see if this video is back up and loaded. And again, I can see here it's taking you one, two, three tries. Um, you're trying to re-prompt. Sometimes AI goes real sideways. And were all of these kind of this combination of image and video?

   20. BKBryce Rattner Keithley29:11

       They were all a comi- combination of image and video, yeah. And to your point before, um, there were times where I tried to get it to... Perhaps I had an animal in a straight arm plank position and I wanted it to do donkey kicks or something that started in quadruped, and it couldn't even adjust the starting position from a mostly the same to the knees down, or bear plank hovers, where your toes are tucked and you're lifting your knees slightly off of the floor.

   21. CVClaire Vo29:43

       Yeah.

   22. BKBryce Rattner Keithley29:43

       It even had a hard time interpreting those small changes.

   23. CVClaire Vo29:46

       Yeah.

   24. BKBryce Rattner Keithley29:46

       And so I tend to get really precise on, on the starting images as much as possible, and that's been a big unlock in terms of generating the right video that I want.

   25. CVClaire Vo29:56

       Amazing.

   26. BKBryce Rattner Keithley29:57

       Okay. You ready to see your leopard?

   27. CVClaire Vo29:59

       I am ready to see my leopard. Show it to me.

   28. BKBryce Rattner Keithley30:01

       Let's see how he did.

   29. CVClaire Vo30:02

       Hey.

   30. BKBryce Rattner Keithley30:03

       Hey.
7. 30:46 – 36:24

   Shifting from web app to App Store submission

   1. CVClaire Vo30:46

      corner. And so now you have this, like, high production value, fun leopard doing crunches in appropriate form. Even looks like it's struggling a little bit, a little wobble to the, to the crunch. It looks very natural. 10 out of 10.

   2. BKBryce Rattner Keithley31:03

      You can do crunches now, too. You've got your inspo.

   3. CVClaire Vo31:05

      I love it.

   4. BKBryce Rattner Keithley31:06

      You've got your form.

   5. CVClaire Vo31:08

      Okay, so just to catch people up where we are so far, we have built a full end-to-end app in Replit without knowing what we're talking about.

   6. BKBryce Rattner Keithley31:16

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CVClaire Vo31:16

      Decided to add in custom videos of these exercises by combining a Nano Banana image of, reference image of an anthropomorphized animal and my friend doing an exercise. So it's just like a video from your iPhone doing an exercise. You're combining those in Higgsfield using the Kling model and waiting about five minutes, and then you get your video. So you have these two things together. This looks like a web app, but people don't wanna pull up web apps when they're doing their exercise. So your next step was getting this to the, the App Store. And I will tell you, Bryce was asking me for advice on how to do this, and I was like, "Girl, I am not a mobile developer. Never have been, never will be. Not my thing. Don't do consumer. Enterprise till I die." And so I was like, "I can't help you. I can't help you. Otherwise, I would." And I think you heard that a lot from friends, right? A couple months ago when you first started this, like how, you were asking around how to get this into the App Store, and what was their response?

   8. BKBryce Rattner Keithley32:16

      I started building this in October, and once I realized that I wanted to keep using it every day, and to your point, not only do people not want this as a web app, you certainly don't want it to be dailyhundred.replit.app 'cause-

   9. CVClaire Vo32:30

      Mm-hmm

   10. BKBryce Rattner Keithley32:30

       ... nobody's gonna go there. Um, it was like, okay, well, the Holy Grail is getting this to being a published app in the App Store. And the, like, broad consensus back in the fall was at some point, like, yes, you can do a lot of this in Replit. You can do a lot of this on your own. At some point you're gonna have to have someone technical unblock you and level up to get this in the App Store. And a friend's husband who's technical, I engaged him to basically write me a fairly intensive doc that I could shop around if I wanted to hire a contractor. But as I went through the holidays, as the new models came out in February, and I started, I, I started getting ready to advance the project, it was wild to me 'cause the same technical folks that I was asking, Claire included, it was sort of like, "Actually, with the current models, like you can probably do this yourself." And so I did. Beginner's mindset. Went into Claude and was basically, "How do I prepare a Replit app for App Store submission?" And kept it really broad, and gave it the context that I am not technical, I can use Claude Code, um, where it was starting, some of what was involved, and what do we do next? And it gave me, I think it was, like, five pretty meaty items that we were gonna have to go through, including moving, letting go of my Replit comfort blanket and moving off of it. A- and ultimately got it ready, uh, for, for App Store publishing. And so what I would do is I would use Claude, original Claude, as like my friend in, I don't know, in the cockpit of like, what are we doing? How are we gonna approach this? And it would tell me when to go into Claude Code. Claude Code would write me code. I would bring that back into Claude and say, "This is what you told me to have it do. Here's what it did." It would confirm or give me thoughts on it, and then it would tell me to put it into the terminal directly, which was a fascinating and, at first, terrifying experience. But that was ultimately what I would do. I bopped between Claude, Claude Code, Claude, and terminal, and really continue. And in fact, I, I hit my limit f- like 51 minutes before it reset one day, and then I got 90% another day. But I was able to stay within my limits generally and did start to outwork it because on a couple of occasions it would say, "You've done a lot today. You can come back tomorrow." I'm like, "Absolutely not. We're going on to the next one." And so I was able to go, I took about 25 or 30 hours in one weekend and just cranked through it, but ultimately, um, got it into the App Store on the second try.

   11. CVClaire Vo35:19

       Yeah. So just for folks, and I love this workflow, again, because it's like beginner's mindset, right? You were just like, plain old Claude, OG Claude is very accessible to me and not scary. So I'm gonna ask OG Claude to give me a plan, and again, like let's go back to plan mode. I need a plan. Give me a step-by-step. And I love the honesty of like, "I'm not technical, so like let's not pretend I am. Give me the step-by-step and I'm gonna work with Claude Code." And then you would give the steps to Claude Code. So you almost had like a product manager or technical architect in Claude. Then you had like your software engineer in Claude Code, and then they both said, "You know, we don't have the ultimate permissions here, so you need to step in and do these specific things in the terminal." And then you went to, I, I asked you the other day, I was like, "Are you in TestFlight?" And you're like, "Yeah, I was in TestFlight." And so now it's in the App Store. You got it approved. It's ready to go.

   12. BKBryce Rattner Keithley36:16

       It's ready to go. Yep. I got, I had some pretty low-hanging fruit from my first submission. That was mostly user error.

   13. CVClaire Vo36:22

       Yep.

   14. BKBryce Rattner Keithley36:22

       Um, but yeah, we're, we're live

8. 36:24 – 37:41

   User feedback

   1. BKBryce Rattner Keithley36:24

      and in the App Store.

   2. CVClaire Vo36:25

      What was the user feedback or the, the feedback? Do you remember?

   3. BKBryce Rattner Keithley36:28

      Yes. So there were three things. One, and, and of course I just took it all, I copied it and pasted it from Apple's feedback into Claude and was like, "We did not achieve, uh, full publishing. Here's what it said." The first one was like, "Oh, it looks like you checked the wrong box on parentalYou're like childproofing something, and so it was like this is the box to check. I probably went back to it and was like, "You need to clarify further where that is and what to do." Um, the second one was definitely user error because it does use your phone number to log in, and because it needs to be compatible with iPad, I needed to add sign in with Apple, which I had done, but I had never tested it. And so that was my bad. It didn't work. And so I needed to troubleshoot that and make sure that sign in with Apple worked. And then you need to have a way to delete it, so I needed a button where you could delete your app. And so I added a button to be able to delete your account.

   4. CVClaire Vo37:27

      And she's not lying, folks. It's right here on, on the App Store. She truly beat me. This makes me very mad. Um, I am a little bit competitive. I'm a competitive vibe goater. [laughs] This is super

9. 37:41 – 46:30

   Lightning round and final thoughts

   1. CVClaire Vo37:41

      impressive. So again, for folks who never thought they could do this, and, you know, we've had people on the show who are like pseudo technical, like product backgrounds, and it's just ... I- what I love about this moment is really people are unconstrained by execution, and they can take a good idea that adds value to them and build it and make it real, and not just make it real, make it production ready, which I think is super impressive. So Bryce, before we get you out of here, I'm gonna ask you a couple lightning round questions, and then we'll get you going. Um, so in your day job, you think a lot about talent, teams, and leadership. And I'm just curious your thoughts reflecting on this exercise, which has brought you much closer to the builder side of things. What are things that are top of mind for you about how to hire and how to be hireable in this moment?

   2. BKBryce Rattner Keithley38:39

      Yeah. It's really, it's really interesting. I've personally always gravitated towards and appreciated environments where the best idea wins, right? It's not only certain people have the best ideas or certain functions can have the best ideas. But I think in this day and age, the attitude that different skills and different ideas are going to come from everywhere, and th- it's table stakes to cross-pollinate and have both like the humility and the curiosity to work with others in ways that you haven't before. I think people that get, dare I say, territorial or constrained by what they used to do or what other people used to do are gonna struggle with relevance and playing nicely in the sandbox. And instead trying to zoom out and consider people can contribute in ways that they haven't before, and being both ready for that from other people and keen to, to do that and bring that attitude to other places as well, um, I think is, is necessary. Um, it requires ... There's a lot of adaptation. In fact, I, I feel like there's an opportunity for me to adapt because for a lot of the things where my job or my function is changing, it's still a nice to have. I think there's other functions where it's, it's table stakes, and I have friends who especially do technical recruiting who have seen that when there's resistance to seeing technical problems in a new way is where folks really struggle. So for an engineer to come in to a technical interview and focus only on finding a working solution fastest, it misses the point because the robots can find a working solution faster than they can. And if they're not recognizing, hey, in this equation, the human role has shifted, I need to step back and consider my role as well as the full suite of tools and understand that my role as a technical expert is broader and different than it was six months, a year ago. That gap I think is only going to be greater and more challenging. And so that willingness to almost be open to outcome and unattached to what was and recognize that what got me here won't necessarily get me there. Um, but also that, at least for now, there's still a lot of opportunity, I think, to preserve humanity and maximize impact when you're willing to see things differently than you did before.

   3. CVClaire Vo41:33

      I love that, and I think that's a real challenge that needs to be put out to everybody in this moment, is your roles are fundamentally changing, and the skills you need are changing, and that's okay. I think there's still value to bring into an organization, to a team. Um, but the, the sooner you face that things are different now, the better. Bryce, my second question is I know you read or listen a lot to books. In this moment in AI, has there been a book that you've read recently or one that you just have in your pocket from, you know, bef- the before times that you think is really relevant for folks right now as we're navigating this different sort of moment in our careers?

   4. BKBryce Rattner Keithley42:10

      If you haven't read What Got You Here Won't Get You There or How Women Rise, which is kind of the sister book to that, it's a good reminder. It ... Not everything is in the title, but it's really the premise that like, yes, you should trade on your strengths and the things that have been positively reinforced to date, and also definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. And so your willingness to believe in yourself and scale to the next altitude, um, is really your, your opportunity. Um, I did listen to, uh, a, it's A Whole New Mind. It's the book by Dan Pink, which actually came out in 2014, and I think is really ahead of its time, but talks about the benefits of an and thinking of both left brain and right brain thinking. And again, this is, uh, yeah-It's old now, and the way he's talking about automation and acceleration and abundance, uh, was, was, is interesting and right, and I think it's only more true. But I, I really think, uh, especially as computers can do more left brain thinking, uh, there's an opportunity and a lot of inspiration for seizing and maximizing humanity, uh, with right brain thinking that they talk about that's pretty powerful.

   5. CVClaire Vo43:29

      I love that. Uh, we'll link to those books in, in the show notes, but a lot of good recommendations here. And then my last question I ask everybody on the show, which is, when AI is not listening, when you are getting that weird genie foot floating, uh, below your Superman genie, what is your kinda like prompting technique? Do you yell? Do you bribe?

   6. BKBryce Rattner Keithley43:51

      I am a true Dale Carnegie enthusiast, and I feel like I've built a lot of my career on how to win friends and influence people, and I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge that it is sometimes cathartic to put down my Dale Carnegie and not win friends and influence people with the robots, and just be angry. So sometimes I do raise my typing.

   7. CVClaire Vo44:16

      [laughs]

   8. BKBryce Rattner Keithley44:17

      However, and I will say I have been inspired and somewhat compelled by some of your guests that have talked about, uh, karma with the robots, that I, I have strengthened some of my, uh, perspective and opinions on my role and how to humanize or not. And so I do try and be more measured and decent and prepare myself for, uh, continued robot evolution. So I, I, I try to be decent and firm when needed, and, uh, a- and also keep my, my position of power politely.

   9. CVClaire Vo44:52

      I love that. And then, you know, two other things that we saw is you just try to be s- hyper-literal, and the screenshot is your friend.

   10. BKBryce Rattner Keithley44:59

       The screenshot, yes. Try new things, right? It's like, add more details. If it didn't get it right, how can I be... Literally, how can I be any more precise about what I want? That might work. Reset. I'm an '80s baby, so refresh or rewrite if I need to, and then try something new. Like maybe I'll draw the progress or goal and take a physical picture or capture a screenshot of my starting position and, like, just see if that prompts the robots any differently.

   11. CVClaire Vo45:26

       I love it. Well, Bryce, this has been really, really, uh, just a, a fun episode. I think very accessible for folks. Now, where can we find you and how can we be helpful?

   12. BKBryce Rattner Keithley45:34

       Certainly, yes. I run a firm called Great Team Partners. We take a team building approach to startup scaling. We work with mostly seed through Series B companies on how to grow strategically and with talent density. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on GitHub at brk-bot. And, uh, you can, of course, find me on the leaders board of Daily Hundreds in the App Store.

   13. CVClaire Vo45:59

       Thanks for, thanks for coming. This was super fun.

   14. BKBryce Rattner Keithley46:02

       Thanks so much, Claire.

   15. CVClaire Vo46:03

       [upbeat music] Thanks so much for watching. If you enjoyed the show, please like and subscribe here on YouTube, or even better, leave us a comment with your thoughts. You can also find this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Please consider leaving us a rating and review, which will help others find the show. You can see all our episodes and learn more about the show at howiapod.com. See you next time.

Episode duration: 46:33