Skip to content
Huberman LabHuberman Lab

Terry Real on Huberman Lab: Why stoicism damages intimacy

Stoicism trains men to suppress feelings until relationships break; Real covers relational skills, vulnerability, and how to rebuild intimacy through conflict.

Terry RealguestAndrew Hubermanhost
Dec 29, 20252h 50mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:53

    Terry Real

    1. TR

      When the moment calls for fierceness, a good Mirani is a killer. And they- they are, they're warriors. They'll kill you, don't cross them. When the moment calls for tenderness, a good Mirani will lay down his sword and shield and be sweet like a baby. What makes a great Mirani is knowing which moment is which.

    2. AH

      (instrumental music plays) Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science, and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Terry Real. Terry Real is a therapist and considered one of the world's foremost experts on male psychology, and on male/female dynamics in romantic relationships. Today we discuss what it means to be a man, and the mental health crisis that men are facing nowadays. As you may have heard, rates of depression and suicide are at an all-time high in men right now. Fewer and fewer men are in romantic relationships, and many don't even have a single close friend. And for those that are in romantic relationships, the public messaging about how to show up in those relationships is very conflicted. Today we address all of these issues head-on. Terry explains that to thrive in life, men have to look at relating as a skill that requires action and, yes, feelings, but also processing and communicating those feelings in a specific way, and sometimes not communicating them at all. We also discuss the critical importance of fraternity. Not necessarily college fraternities, but finding and belonging to a group of men that you can trust, that you can enjoy time with, that give you honest feedback, and that hold you accountable. What I appreciate so much about Terry Real is that he's willing to answer the hard questions about men and women very directly, and frankly, most therapists are not willing to do that publicly. For example, he explains that in his extensive work with couples, women and men are equally bad at relationships, but in different ways. And he offers solutions for them both if they actually want their relationship to thrive. Thanks to his honesty and providing practical tools, Terry Real provides us today with essential information for men and women of all ages. It cuts through all the generational differences that certainly exist, to highlight the practical ways that men can build and support their mental health, and thrive at work, school, and in romantic relationships, and also, just as importantly, in their relationship to themselves. That is, how men can build a strong self-concept, sense of agency, and confidence. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is however part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Terry Real.

  2. 2:53 – 7:39

    Men & Masculinity, Political vs Psychological Patriarchy, Feminism

    1. AH

      Terry Real, welcome.

    2. TR

      Uh, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

    3. AH

      What's going on with men?

    4. TR

      (laughs)

    5. AH

      What's this mental health, uh, men's crisis? Suicide rates are way, way up. What's going on?

    6. TR

      What's going on is that the old role is shifted, the sand is, uh, shifted under our feet, and we're trying to figure out what the hell we are, and if we're not gonna be what our dads and granddads were, what are we going to be? And we're searching, and we're grappling. I gotta tell you, uh, uh, the other thing that's going on is, uh, somewhat in reaction to feminism and... You know, somebody said about my work, "Women have had a revolution, and now men have to deal with it." And it's like, "What are we supposed to do here?" And, uh, there's been a backlash. Uh, there's been a resurgence in our country, and around the globe, of almost a celebration of some of the m- m- most difficult, unattractive aspects of traditional masculinity. And, uh, we're not sure what it means to be a man anymore. And particularly young, uh, guys are- are grappling. And, um, uh, there are a lot of healthy examples saying, "Okay, here's the new territory. Let me- let me show you what it looks like." Uh, the biggest response that I see, uh, to the confusion about, "What are we supposed to do here," uh, ha- has been, uh, regressive. "Let's go back to being powerful, dominant, entitled, aggressive." Uh, and i- you see this at the top, you see this in politics, not just in our country, but all over the globe. Um, autocracy, dominance is- is, uh, celebrated. And it's like, "We're tired of the woke. We're tired of being told that we're bad." You know, I grew up in the '60s in the height of feminism, and I consider myself a feminist family therapist.

    7. AH

      Did you have long hair in the '60s?

    8. TR

      I- Oh, yeah, and a mustache, and the whole thing, yeah. Yeah, I did. And a lot of drugs. And, uh ... But, uh, when I grew up the- the joke was, um, you know, the philosophical, uh, "If a tree falls in the woods and no one's there, does it still make a sound?" When I grew up, it was, uh, "If a man speaks in the woods and there's no one there, is he still wrong?" (laughs)

    9. AH

      Hmm. That was the- the first surge of- of-

    10. TR

      Yeah, earl- early-

    11. AH

      ... major feminism?

    12. TR

      Yeah. Well, early stage feminism was, uh, a- angry. Uh, I- I am proud to say my dear friends and colleagues who are, uh, in- in the forefront of feminism, Esther Perel, Carol Gilligan, are man-loving feminists. But that's- uh, that wasn't the first wave. And it was really a, um, understandable ...... a, a reaction to the entitlement and the oppression of women. But I call that political patriarchy, and it exists. Look, uh, you step out of America and it's pretty clear, uh, women are oppressed by men all over the globe. That's true. But what I, as a psychologist, what I'm interested in is what I call psychological patriarchy, the dynamics of patriarchy. And that can take place between two men, between two women, between a mother and a child, between two races. And the psychology of patriarchy is a straitjacket that is, I believe, toxic for everybody. Uh, now like, there, there are some positive traits to traditional masculinity. It's not completely black and white. But a lot of it is really unhealthy. So a lot of guys reacted to being told, "You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong," by, "Hey, I'm throwing off the shackles, I'll do what the hell I want." And a kind of celebration of the old freedoms and the old entitlements. But that ain't the way out. And even though we see this resurgence right now, that does not breed a happy human being. Uh, so we need models of progressive masculinity, not regressive masculinity. And they're rare.

  3. 7:39 – 10:50

    Stoicism, Vulnerability, Traditional Masculinity, Emotions

    1. TR

    2. AH

      Is it possible that now there are more templates of what it is to be a man than there were before? I mean, in my mind, in my very simple-minded, not formally educated about this topic, except having grown up-

    3. TR

      Yeah, you are-

    4. AH

      ... a man.

    5. TR

      ... you are a guy.

    6. AH

      Yeah, yeah.

    7. TR

      (laughs)

    8. AH

      I mean, that's the only experience I have, right?

    9. TR

      Yeah.

    10. AH

      So everything's filtered through my own experience as best as I can try and get outside of him. This is where I started and where I'll end up. Uh, you know, that the model that I was exposed to was, okay, you know, um, in the '40s and '50s, men looked and acted a certain way.

    11. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    12. AH

      And there, it was a fairly narrow template.

    13. TR

      Very narrow.

    14. AH

      Pretty narrow template.

    15. TR

      And pretty inhuman in some ways. The essence of traditional masculinity, which didn't end in the '50s, it's still with us very much today, is stoicism. Uh, the essence of being a man is being invulnerable. The more invulnerable you are, the more manly you are. The more vulnerable you are, the more girly you are to this day. And being girly is not a good thing. Well, there's some problems with that. One is, we are vulnerable. As human beings, that's a lie. Denying our vulnerability is a lie. And so I see chronic anxiety, depression. Everybody's in a state of, uh, "Do I measure up?" And you don't, because what you're trying to measure up to isn't real. You know, I say to guys, uh, "Trying to n- to run away from your own vulnerability is like trying to outrun your rectum." (laughs) It has a way of following you everywhere you go. We are vulnerable. And the other issue with that traditional model of stoicism is we connect to each other through vulnerability. That's how human beings connect. And men are walled off. And one of the issues facing us, uh, is in hetero relationships, women across the West are insisting on levels of emotional connection and open-heartedness and intimacy from their, from us guys, that literally were stamped out of us as boys. You know, the way we turn boys into men traditionally in this culture is through disconnection. You disconnect from your feelings, you disconnect from vulnerability, you disconnect from others, you disconnect from your mother. We call all this becoming autonomous. Well, this whole story of achieving autonomy has nothing to do with real psychology. There's no basis for it at all. It's just patriarchy. So like for example, you know, the monosyllabic adolescent boy who won't answer his mother, i- uh, that's not normal. We th- we think of it as normal, uh, but, eh, th- that's not psychologically necessary. It is a mandate of traditional masculinity. And I'm here to tell you that traditional masculinity is harmful.

  4. 10:50 – 13:14

    Sponsors: BetterHelp & David

    1. TR

    2. AH

      I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, BetterHelp. BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online. Now, I've been doing therapy for a long time, and I can tell you that in many ways, it's like a physical workout. There are days when I want to do it and there are days when I don't want to do it. But whenever I finish a therapy session, every single time, I come away feeling better and knowing that the time was well spent. And more often than not, when I finish a therapy session, I come away with some valuable insight or, some cases, many insights or new perspectives on something that I'm working through, whether it's with work, with relationships, or with my relationship to myself. There is just so much benefit that comes through doing effective therapy. And with BetterHelp, they make it extremely easy to find an expert therapist that can help provide those benefits that come through effective therapy. Also, because BetterHelp is done entirely online, it's very time efficient. There's no driving to a therapist's office, looking for parking or anything like that. You just log on and hold your session. If you would like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month. Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by David. David makes a protein bar unlike any other. It has 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar. That's right, 28 grams of protein, and 75% of its calories come from protein. That's 50% higher than the next closest protein bar.These bars from David also taste amazing. Right now, my favorite flavor is the new cinnamon roll flavor, but I also like the chocolate chip cookie dough flavor, and I also like the salted peanut butter flavor. Basically, I like all the flavors. They're all delicious. Also, big news, David Bars are now back in stock. They were sold out for several months because they are that popular, but they are now back in stock. By eating a David Bar, I'm able to get 28 grams of protein in the calories of a snack, which makes it very easy for me to meet my protein goals of one gram of protein per pound of body weight per day and to do so without eating excess calories. I generally eat a David Bar most afternoons, and I always keep them with me when I'm away from home or traveling because they're incredibly convenient to get enough protein. As I mentioned, they're incredibly delicious. And given that 28 grams of protein, they're pretty filling for just 150 calories, so they're great between meals as well. If you'd like to try David, you can go to davidprotein.com/huberman. Again, that's davidprotein.com/huberman.

  5. 13:14 – 21:54

    Masculinity Across Decades, Giving; Gratification vs Relational Joy

    1. AH

      Let me ask you about this, uh, template. Like, so there's the 1940s went into the '60s somewhat template, right? As Steve Jobs so aptly said, you know, the '60s really happened in the '70s. The long hair, the mustaches, most of that was in the '70s.

    2. TR

      Right.

    3. AH

      Some of it was in the '60s, but most of it was in the '70s.

    4. TR

      Right.

    5. AH

      Okay. So there's that very stoic template.

    6. TR

      Right.

    7. AH

      Right? Um, provider, protector, stoic.

    8. TR

      No feelings.

    9. AH

      Right. Yeah, y- and, a-

    10. TR

      Logic.

    11. AH

      And it's actually interesting to l- I have looked a little bit at the history of this. Um, you know, there were even, uh, diagrams that, you know, men should never stand with their hands on their hips because that was like a feminine stance, never tilt a hip to one side. I mean, this stuff was g- bl- it was out there, right? And it was also coupled with etiquette. It was very clear how to act, right?

    12. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    13. AH

      There wasn't much range, but the sort of range of things to do and say was fairly scripted, which I, I'll just make... I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, but it made the script simpler and therefore more accessible, but it masked a lot of other things is I think what we both agree on. But then came the template... You know, I was born in '75, so I'm 50 now. Um, in the late '80s and '90s, it was kind of a mishmash of things. We saw our first, um, gay male characters in television shows.

    14. TR

      Yes.

    15. AH

      We saw also g- gay female characters, but since we're talking about men and masculinity here, that- that be- that was the first time. I think it was the character on The Real World: San Francisco-

    16. TR

      Yeah.

    17. AH

      ... that, um... the first character-

    18. TR

      Uh-huh.

    19. AH

      Forgive me for not remembering his name.

    20. TR

      Ah, yeah.

    21. AH

      He died of AIDS, and it was during the AIDS, um-

    22. TR

      Yeah. And W-

    23. AH

      ... the AIDS epidemic, and-

    24. TR

      Will & Grace and-

    25. AH

      Yeah.

    26. TR

      Yeah.

    27. AH

      Yeah, so there was more of that, right?

    28. TR

      But there's a difference between, uh, having gay men in the public eye and eh- eh saying that the role of straight men had changed.

    29. AH

      Oh, t- totally agree, totally agree.

    30. TR

      Yeah.

  6. 21:54 – 31:17

    Healthy Emotional Expression, Connection & Vulnerability; Self-Esteem

    1. AH

      There's a lot there, and I, I wanna, um, make sure I ask about this notion of emotional experience and expression from men. Um, seems like a very important topic to, to parse, because indeed, it, it seems that men now are, thanks to your work and, and others, are hearing that it's important to feel.

    2. TR

      Feel.

    3. AH

      To feel.

    4. TR

      Yeah.

    5. AH

      That feelings are not just okay, they're encouraged. Um, that if you bottle them in, you know, we used to hear about this in the context of the impact on heart health, right? Type A, type B, like if (laughs) you go back and look at the, uh, it was, it was almost like a mask for this other thing.

    6. TR

      Yeah.

    7. AH

      It's still true, you know, you can destroy your heart by smoking cigarettes and all this other stuff, but it was really, it was about the, those are, that original typing of people who tend to die early from heart attack-

    8. TR

      Yeah. Oh, uh-

    9. AH

      ... it was the people who hold it inside.

    10. TR

      Yeah.

    11. AH

      It was about people who, who manage a lot, do a lot, but ma- hold it inside, and it's kind of interesting 'cause the ones that turned out, and I'm not suggesting people do that, but screamed and yelled a lot, that act- that catharsis actually helped them in terms of longevity. I'm not saying you should go scream at people, um, but Steve Jobs used to, um, be a big proponent of scream therapy, and, um, you know, and just getting out there and, and vocalizing. But the, I think that the real, the, the question that's in my mind is, okay, so if it's important to feel, then let's just do this as a decision tree. Okay, so I think if we agree men need to feel their feelings-

    12. TR

      Yes.

    13. AH

      ... then the question becomes, should they feel those alone or in the presence of someone else? And I'm guessing there's a case for both, but then at what point does one, uh, not have this, um, what you refer to as emotional privilege where it's like putting it on someone else to take care of them? Could you give an example of what healthy expression of an emotion is? Let's keep this in the context of heterosexual couple for simplicity-

    14. TR

      Sure.

    15. AH

      ... but obviously it carries over.

    16. TR

      Sure.

    17. AH

      Um, what is an example of healthy emotional expression? Let's say sadness.

    18. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. AH

      Deep sadness-

    20. TR

      Yeah.

    21. AH

      ... or frustration and sadness-

    22. TR

      Yeah.

    23. AH

      ... um, in the presence of a partner-

    24. TR

      Yeah.

    25. AH

      ... that doesn't bring about this thing of, of that they're regressing and are some- now becoming a child?

    26. TR

      Yeah.

    27. AH

      What does that look like?

    28. TR

      It looks like a negotiation and not a demand.

    29. AH

      Could you tell me more?

    30. TR

      Yeah, because e- even in our... uh, I'm gonna push this. Even in our, uh, talk, I don't care about the feelings.I care about the connection. What- what will make us men healthy is connection. So yeah, great, have your feelings and then what are you gonna do with them? Uh, uh, I- I, uh, I used to have no feelings and now I have feelings all over the place and I don't give a shit about you and your feelings, I want you to pay attention to me and my feelings. Well, is that a step up? I mean, a- a little bit, but it's not where I want to leave you. Uh, so what I want men to move beyond is our selfishness. And because it's in our interests to move beyond our selfishness. And, uh, so recovering feeling, being stoic or having feelings, sure, that's good, that's important. The way we connect is through feelings, the way we connect is through vulnerability. So I was nervous coming here talking to you.

  7. 31:17 – 35:10

    Feeling Emotions, Tools: Asking For Help; Fights & “What Do You Need?”

    1. TR

    2. AH

      I definitely want to get into self-esteem, but I just want to, um, for my sake and for some of the listeners, make sure that I summarize, uh, uh, two what I think are conclusions, and then you can modify these.

    3. TR

      Great.

    4. AH

      As it relates to expression of emotion-

    5. TR

      Yes.

    6. AH

      ... which, which you, uh, and I totally agree, I mean, you have to be able to feel your feelings, if for no other reason, one good reason, great reason to get started on that trajectory is it's great for your physical health. It's also great for your mental health and your relational health. But oftentimes, um, as you know, um, men need to be kind of like led to the trough for, for a particular carrot, and then there are additional carrots in there.

    7. TR

      Yeah.

    8. AH

      But it's holding everything inside will kill you.

    9. TR

      Yes, it will kill you.

    10. AH

      And, and then it makes everyone else around you miserable too, e- even if, uh, you think you're protecting them from it. But as you very importantly pointed out, it can't be a dumping of emotion on other people. So what I heard from you was of at least two very healthy ways to engage emotionally for men is, one, to ask for help.

    11. TR

      Yeah.

    12. AH

      And the help from your example that you were referring to, also a very talented therapist Bea Voce, uh, when you called Bea was to ask for help by expressing what is on your mind as the point of concern, like one is nervous, or one is sad, or... and, um, and, and I think in my experience, women naturally reach out to help when you couch things out naturally.

    13. TR

      Everybody does.

    14. AH

      Right. And then the-

    15. TR

      Hey, wait. Can I slow that down-

    16. AH

      Yeah, please.

    17. TR

      ... for a second, Andrew? Uh, w- what we have is what, what I call the Icarus syndrome. In the absence of worthiness, so many of us feel we have to earn love, we have to earn worthiness. And, and, uh, I like to say, guys, uh, uh, leave their wives... I'll be hetero for a moment. Guys leave their wives and kids, go fly off into the sun to be worthy of love, and meanwhile, their wives and kids are saying, you know, "Where the hell is Dad? What, what's going on here?" "Well, I, I'm off trying to win your love." "Well, sit down and play monopoly with us, for Christ's sake." You don't have to do that. It's like, it's a bill of goods. It's, it's a scam that we've all bought. Just sit down and be still and be connected. That's all you need to do. But we don't... we're not taught that.

    18. AH

      Right. And, um, we'll get back to this later, but the, the demands of also, and the joy frankly, of being a provider and protector many times, not always, involve having to leave the home and go do work. And frankly, all my friends with kids and, uh, you know, and I've certainly experienced this, it's when you're not able to be home because you're working, it's, it's, it's this weird pain.

    19. TR

      Yeah.

    20. AH

      It's like... Because you... I certainly love my work. Yeah, being a provider is wonderful, and at the same time, there's this pain of not being able to be there for things. And we can get back to that. But asking for help, and then in terms of responding in a, in the, in a non-regressive, non-, um, uh, you know, entitled way, privileged way, as you said, is when a woman is upset, the words, "What do you need?"

    21. TR

      Ah, that is water in the desert.

    22. AH

      And, uh, perhaps also, "What do you need from me right now?" is I think-

    23. TR

      "What do you need from me right now?"

    24. AH

      Okay, great. I'm just trying to, um, put some structure on this because as there is also something about the Y chromosome, like we respond well to simple instructions.

    25. TR

      Okay, I'll take that.

    26. AH

      I, I, I believe that. I have a whole theory about Y chromosomes and, and how men evolved to be the way that we are. We can talk about maybe at the end for fun 'cause it's somewhat facetious, but not really. And then

  8. 35:10 – 40:47

    Self-Esteem & Relationship Accountability; Criticism, Redefining Strength

    1. AH

      the, the next thing that you were saying, and I think this is so critical about self-esteem, is the ability to accept responsibility when we screw up, and at the same time not take ourselves into a place of shame, to be able to still hold onto one's sense of goodness.

    2. TR

      I'm a good guy who screwed up. I'm a good guy who behaved badly.

    3. AH

      What if the words coming at you are not of that? It's not, "Hey, listen, I'm upset 'cause you really dropped the ball on this thing." It's, "I'm upset 'cause you really dropped the ball on this thing, and you're..." and it becomes character, uh, you know, characterological assassination.

    4. TR

      Yeah.

    5. AH

      That takes an extra level of work.

    6. TR

      It does.

    7. AH

      And in that case, is your recommendation to try and counter that or to just sit with it and do the work internally to say, "That's not true"?

    8. TR

      Well, good luck countering it. How's that working? Listen, uh, uh, this is a trap, and look, I'm a... Uh, first of all, the thing is this. Uh, the lack of self-esteem leads us guys to be unaccountable in our relationships. When we're confronted with an imperfection, we're going to go into shame. We don't have the capacity to feel proportionately bad about the imperfection, "Okay, you're right, I screwed up. What can I do to help?" Uh, it's like, "Oh, you mean I didn't hit a homer? That means I'm a loser."And we defend against the overwhelm of our own lack of self-worth. "What do you mean, I'm not perfect?" We defend against that awful feeling, and it's an awful feeling, by warding off the criticism. "Well, wait a minute. You have to understand..." "Well, you..." I mean, you know, we do all these defensive things that women always complain we do, and we do, because we're protecting ourself from the overwhelm of getting swamped, "I'm a bad guy." So, uh, interestingly, I teach men self-esteem as a way of helping them be accountable in their relationships.

    9. AH

      Interesting.

    10. TR

      If you don't have healthy self-esteem, you can't afford to be accountable.

    11. AH

      Mm-hmm.

    12. TR

      Because it's too overwhelming to admit how imperfect you are.

    13. AH

      This is so important, what you're saying. Um, also for people who aren't in romantic relationship, for m- men, it's so critical because, look, we could, in my mind, we could easily transpose boss or feedback-

    14. TR

      Absolutely.

    15. AH

      And, and there's a... I feel like... And again, forgive me for kind of going slow here. Um, but I feel like parsing some of this into a structure is going to help me and hopefully help other people. There are kind of two forms of criticism that perhaps I've experienced in life. I'm being, I'm joking (laughs) . Of course, I've experienced it. One is, someone is upset about what I did.

    16. TR

      Yeah.

    17. AH

      Okay. And I hear you loud and clear, even if it's coming at me with characterological assassination, to have the internal reservoir of self-esteem that I can hear that.

    18. TR

      What happens to us... And look, I, I've been married 40 years. I, it was me too. We get caught in the horrible delivery, and we react to the horrible delivery. You know, "Come on. It's not that bad." Or, w- "Hey, you're talking horrible." Uh, it- i- i- i- it- a black belt in a relational guy, you duck under the horrible delivery. I'm not saying it's not horrible. It is. But you try and get to the point that the person's trying to make. Why? It's jujitsu. You duck under the horrible delivery. You deal with their ouch. And guess what happens? They calm down.

    19. AH

      Sure.

    20. TR

      You react to the horrible delivery. "That's exaggerated." Bah, bah, bah. "You're..." And y- you, well, you're off to the races. It's the... So, but, oh my God, what an enlightened man. Your, your partner or your boss or your kid is saying, "You're a shitty human being. You know, this isn't about your bad behavior. You're just a rotten person." That's shame. You have enough boundaries, you have enough self-esteem, you go, "Well, they're being abusive. This is not the best part of them." But rather than react to that, "What are you so upset about, honey? H- what can I give you right now?" And oof, the, the beauty of these skills is that they work. You know, you react to the bad behavior on your partner's part, and you're off. This goes on for hours, days. You duck under that and go, "Okay, you're upset. What can I do to help you?" And you, that all of that toxicity just passes through you. That's a real man. And it's like something that could have been misery for a, a day to a week, it- it calms down in 10, 15 minutes because of the good job. And when I talk to guys, I- I want to redefine strength. Strength, uh, the way we normally think of it, you know, it's list- it's the rumble and the, "You give me your best shot, I give you my best shot." I like jujitsu. Duck under it. Duck under the wave. And at the- a- at the end, instead of saying, "I was really strong. I didn't put up with that bullshit. I stood up..." No, I want you to say, "I was really elegant. I just sidestepped that whole thing. And what might have been a struggle that would go on for days, I just diffused in 10 minutes. Aren't I cool?" That's a real man in my book.

  9. 40:47 – 42:32

    Sponsor: AG1

    1. TR

    2. AH

      By now, I'm sure that many of you have heard me say that I've been taking AG1 for more than a decade. And indeed, that's true. The reason I started taking AG1 way back in 2012, and the reason why I still continue to take it every single day, is because AG1 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality and most comprehensive of the foundational nutritional supplements on the market. What that means is that it contains not just vitamins and minerals, but also probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens to cover any gaps that you might have in your diet, while also providing support for a demanding life. Given the probiotics and prebiotics in AG1, it also helps support a healthy gut microbiome. The gut microbiome consists of trillions of little microorganisms that line your digestive tract and impact things such as your immune status, your metabolic health, your hormone health, and much more. Taking AG1 consistently helps my digestion, keeps my immune system strong, and it ensures that my mood and mental focus are always at their best. AG1 is now available in three new flavors, berry, citrus, and tropical. And while I've always loved the AG1 original flavor, especially with a bit of lemon juice added, I'm really enjoying the new berry flavor in particular. It tastes great. But then again, I do love all the flavors. If you'd like to try AG1 and try these new flavors, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer. Right now, AG1 is giving away six free sample packs of AGZ, which is AG1's new sleep formula, which by the way is fantastic. It's the only sleep supplement I take. It eliminates the need for all these pills, and my sleep has never been better. The special offer gives you six free samples of that AGZ, as well as three AG1 travel packs and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription. Just go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get started.

  10. 42:32 – 50:21

    Healthy Criticism, Tool: Women & Articulating Needs

    1. AH

      Two questions about this scenario that we've kind of got, um, structured here. Um, there...... at least two general types of, uh, criticism. One is, you did something, you screwed up.

    2. TR

      Yeah.

    3. AH

      Like it- where- you're- you screwed up. You- you did the wrong thing, you did the bad thing, you did something poorly. The other is, upset about what you didn't do.

    4. TR

      Okay.

    5. AH

      And in my limit ... I'm not a clinician obviously, (laughs) you know, but in my, um, limited number of, uh, interactions with men where they, they share about a frustration, could be from a boss, could be from, um, a partner, oftentime it's- it's what ab- it's what they didn't do.

    6. TR

      Yeah.

    7. AH

      And they'll confide that the reason they didn't do it, the reason it seemed like they didn't think about it, is because they are awfully busy doing all the other things that come with being a provider and a partner, uh, entails. Um, and there's the real world constraints of time, right? And- and so it's not like, "Oh, y- you know, you forgot the anniversary or you forgot the present." It's not- not this ki- it's the- it's the- the things that never get asked for that someone doesn't just naturally see. Like, look, I'm a vision scientist, uh, at first and a neuroscientist second, really, and, um, we have giant blind spots about certain things. Women see and hear things that we just don't.

    8. TR

      Yes.

    9. AH

      And men see and hear things that women just cannot see. No, you're not allowed to say that, it's very politically incorrect-

    10. TR

      Yeah.

    11. AH

      ... but like men see things in women that they can't see, women see things in men that they can't see. This idea that women are all knowing and men are dopes-

    12. TR

      No, no, no, no.

    13. AH

      ... is part of what f- uh, it's part of what got us here.

    14. TR

      That's true. That's absolutely-

    15. AH

      You know, this notion of like, you know, the Homer Simpson type thing, like "Brr." You know?

    16. TR

      (laughs)

    17. AH

      Um, and there's certainly men like that, but I would say there's a real world version of Homer Simpson that was actually working very steadily at his job, trying to make things work, you know, to, you know. Uh, so when it comes to dealing with criticism about what one did not do-

    18. TR

      Yeah.

    19. AH

      ... I can imagine same rules apply, but I think it's only fair to say what aspect of this falls on the partner and the way they raise an issue?

    20. TR

      Yeah.

    21. AH

      Obviously, characterological assassinations are not gonna help.

    22. TR

      Yeah.

    23. AH

      They make the jujitsu harder.

    24. TR

      Yeah.

    25. AH

      It makes it harder ex- to accept responsibility. But they're- it's gonna happen. It's gonna scale with how bad the infraction was, right?

    26. TR

      Yeah.

    27. AH

      Okay. Um, but what is a healthy delivery of a criticism? Is it all I statements? Is it purely based on how one feels? Um, I'm not trying to distribute responsibility here, but let's be honest, it's a two-way street.

    28. TR

      It is more than a two-way street. And again, l- l- let's own, these are broad generalities, we a- we both understand that, but we have s- we're speaking simply because we gotta start somewhere.

    29. AH

      Mm-hmm.

    30. TR

      So I teach women too how to be relational. I'm not saying m- men aren't relational and women are. Uh, uh, we're both pretty screwed up in this c- uh, in this culture. And, uh, the- the tough news for a lot of women, uh, i- I have eight million sayings and one of them is, you don't have the right to get mad about not getting what you never asked for.

  11. 50:21 – 58:11

    Childlike Behavior, Wise Adult & Trauma, Tool: Relational Mindfulness

    1. AH

      Amazing. Uh, question about childhood patterns but rather than get right into the parents piece of it-

    2. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. AH

      ... which I want to. Um, I have this very crude model in my head that goes something like, we all have an, like an inner child or a childlike part of ourselves, and there's a healthy part and an unhealthy part.

    4. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. AH

      'Cause it's kind of wonderful, at least in my experience, um, to be in the company of someone, especially a romantic partner, where you can be in your kind of like childlike, uh-

    6. TR

      I call that the natural child.

    7. AH

      ... way.

    8. TR

      The joy-

    9. AH

      The natural child, right. It's healthy-

    10. TR

      To do it.

    11. AH

      ... it's explorative, it's fun, it's-

    12. TR

      Yeah.

    13. AH

      ... it's sweet. And, um, and, um, and sometimes it's mischievous, um, I've certainly observed that. Um-

    14. TR

      But it's lovable.

    15. AH

      It's very lovable. Uh, and then there's the unhealthy, uh, child, and that can take the form of, you know, brattiness, entitlement, um, whatever, closing up. I mean, it could be any variety of things. Um, I imagine that a, a great number of people listening to this conversation are in a relationship and a great number of them are not. How much work and what kind of work can be done to understand those two parts of one's self on one's own? Maybe even if you're in a relationship because, uh, that unhealthy child is a very, uh, dangerous thing to show up-

    16. TR

      Yes.

    17. AH

      ... in relationship. It can be very destructive very fast.

    18. TR

      Yeah.

    19. AH

      Um, so if I were a patient-

    20. TR

      (laughs)

    21. AH

      ... a client, I don't know what you call them. Do you call them p- clients?

    22. TR

      Customer, no, they're a client as well as the-

    23. AH

      Yeah, c- client. If I were a client and I just said, "Okay, yeah, I, I don't wanna talk about my parents right now. We can do that later. Um, but I know the healthy childlike part of myself and I think I know the unhealthy one." And then, like, what's some good work that I could do to have those understood and, and have them in their proper place?

    24. TR

      Yeah.

    25. AH

      So that I make sure that I keep, like, the bad childlike Andrew locked away (laughs) and-

    26. TR

      Yeah.

    27. AH

      ... the good childlike Andrew at appropriate times let 'em out to play, right?

    28. TR

      Oh, yeah. Yeah.

    29. AH

      I mean, I'm very fortunate that my girlfriend now, like, she's very good at expressing that healthy child, the natural child part of her, and she's also a, a woman. And again, that part just shuts down and then she can be in that mode. Or in the, and they, that's, uh, you know, I've seen this before, it's really wonderful to experience, to... And when those mesh very seamlessly-

    30. TR

      Mm-hmm.

  12. 58:11 – 1:08:14

    Tool: Responsible Distance Taking; Self-Interest; Relationship “Biosphere”

    1. AH

      I... Yes, please. Uh, before... I just want-

    2. TR

      Yeah.

    3. AH

      ... to make sure I ask one question about when one enters this adaptive child, I think that's how it is-

    4. TR

      Yes.

    5. AH

      ... which is reactive in the moment-

    6. TR

      Yes.

    7. AH

      ... at worst, and one can learn to dance with that and, uh, turn on their prefrontal cortex and- and remind themselves, "This is a relationship that I care about," and there's... etc. Um, taking space, a break is- is something that-

    8. TR

      Essential.

    9. AH

      ... is essential. What's the best way to ask for that? Because here's perhaps something I've observed. Um, things are getting ratcheted up internally, maybe both people, and you need space.

    10. TR

      Yes.

    11. AH

      You ask for space like, "Hey, I- I need to take a break to be able to hear this," or... and then the other person gets ve- very upset because it activates their sense of abandonment.

    12. TR

      Exactly.

    13. AH

      And it runs countercurrent to this idea that we need to stand in the face of it, jujitsu it, etc., like, the... It's a- it's a pause, we're not talking about like, "Hey, I'm leaving for a week."

    14. TR

      Right.

    15. AH

      And we're not talking about, "I'm leaving for an hour," even. It's just need to decompress this. Um, if that's met with additional criticism about the request, um, that can be problematic.

    16. TR

      Yeah. And common as mud. So here's what you do. Contract for when the heat is not on. "Listen, uh, honey, I get flooded and y- you don't want me flooded. I'm not nice. I won't be nice. I won't be skilled when I'm flooded. I need to collect myself. It's in your interest to let me go collect yourself." Um, I have a skill for everything. This is a skill I call responsible distance taking. Most of us take unilateral, "I'm just... I'm gone." No. "I'm gone. Here's why and here's when I'm coming back." It's not a rupture, it's a break. So if I have a partner who's vulnerable to abandonment, if I go, "I'm gone," boom, they're chasing me. This is a good example of relational skill. If I want distance, let me take care of my partner so she'll give me distance. If I don't take care of you, I'm going to get chased. It's in my interest to behave with skill. So I say to you, "When we're not flooded, let's have a contract. I get flooded, we don't like it when I get flooded. I want to take a break. Here's what it looks like. 15, 20 minutes, and then I'm back. If- if I'm not i- in control, I'll text you or I'll call you and say I need another... or I'll negotiate with you. But I'm not going to leave you. I'm not going to be irresponsible. It's not unilateral and it's not forever. I will be back. What do you need in order to be calm enough to let me go?" Uh, and nine out of 10 times, it's like, "This contract is fine. Remind me of the contract. I'm taking a timeout so I can be with you. 20 minutes, I'll be back. Here's why, here's when I'm coming back." Okay. No abandonment.... leave those steps out, you get abandonment. So it's a really good example of how using relational skills in your interest.

    17. AH

      That's very helpful. Thank you. I also realize that how resourced one shows up to interactions like this is a big part of it. I mean, if you're sleep-deprived, overworked, I mean, you've got stuff coming at- at you from other angles, kid has been up all night, you know, it, financial issues, you know, if the well is low, um, access to these skills becomes infinitely harder.

    18. TR

      Harder. And i- I don't believe in pleading special circumstances. This shit is relentless. You don't get a pass. I don't care if you're up all night with the kids. Uh, i- i- be un- be immature, be unskilled, uh, I- I can understand why you would be, and brother, you'll pay the price. So yeah, I get it, you're sleep-deprived, it's harder to be mature. And when you behave immaturely, this is the crap you're going to wind up with. It's instant karma. So the beauty in this is remembering it's in my interest to behave artfully. It's not for them. And one of my sons is, uh, in residency right now, and he's out of his mind and he's sleep-deprived, and so we don't hear from him for, you know, a week. And, um, uh, and his mom calls, "I'm worried about you. Uh, I- I've been calling, you don't text. I'm worried you're like dead on the street. You know, I know I'm crazy, but I'm worried about you." He says, "You know, I called, uh, a- and y- you weren't there." And I said, "Well, did you leave a message?" "No." I said, "Well, why didn't you leave a message?" "You don't understand what it's like in re- I didn't have it in me." "Okay, listen pal, leave a 10-second message, 'I'm alive. I'm fine. Don't worry about me.'" You'll, you'll wind up having less to deal with (laughs) if you put 10 seconds into it than if you don't put the 10 seconds into it and then you've got mom on the phone talking to you for 20 minutes about, you know, "Why can't you be more responsible?" It's up to you, but it's an investment in your, uh, future, your well-being. It- it's, uh, what the prefrontal cortex knows that the limbic system doesn't is, it's in my interest to behave well because I'll get less shit for it.

    19. AH

      I don't mean to jump into family matters, but, uh, having come from the not medical but science profession, your son had some overlap with places I've been and people you know.

    20. TR

      Yeah.

    21. AH

      Um, I don't know him, but I'm about to advocate for him here.

    22. TR

      (laughs)

    23. AH

      I, I suspect, maybe ask him, I suspect that there... Could be wrong, but part of the reason he didn't leave a message is when you get... Like, your son got three degrees from-

    24. TR

      Yes.

    25. AH

      ... an elite university. He is a, doing his residency in medicine. Uh, he's clearly a high achiever.

    26. TR

      Yes.

    27. AH

      Uh, and he's involved in other things as well.

    28. TR

      Yes.

    29. AH

      Um, the 10-second message is very hard for a high achiever. It's like you either do things really well or you don't do them. And this is, I- I'm probably just projecting myself into this here.

    30. TR

      Uh, no, you're right.

  13. 1:08:14 – 1:17:51

    Alcohol, Men & Friends, Loneliness, Men’s Retreat

    1. AH

      for men to develop some of these skills in the company of other men, because that traditionally was the way it was done, right? Even if we look back to the, you know, um, not so much the '40s, um, because the world was in a different sort of duress, um, but in the '50s and '60s, um, there was a certain kind of socializing that-

    2. TR

      Yeah.

    3. AH

      ... men did. It was-

    4. TR

      Still today, gone.

    5. AH

      It was, it was often around alcohol. Um-

    6. TR

      And sports.

    7. AH

      Yeah, brief, brief, uh, anecdote around that. When I started graduate school, um, it was amazing that every Friday they would do a seminar and then people, they'd have some food and people would go home. And I was told by a chair of department, he said, "Do you know that for something like 30 years in this room..." It was called the Beach Room, named after Frank Beach at, at UC Berkeley, one of the great biopsychologists and endocrinologists. Frank Beach and colleagues would get together, it was all men then, um, every single evening, not Fridays, every single evening, and get trashed.

    8. TR

      Yeah.

    9. AH

      And then basically stagger home to their families. This was, like, how it was done.

    10. TR

      Yeah.

    11. AH

      Very, very different time. And it was standard.

    12. TR

      Yeah.

    13. AH

      It was standard. People smoked, men smoked and drank, and then got drunk and went home.

    14. TR

      Yeah.

    15. AH

      Okay. That was real. And obviously that's not the way it is now.

    16. TR

      Right.

    17. AH

      And I said, "Well, what would you guys talk about?" And you imagine that it would all be about, you know, um, kind of like fraternity talk and locker room talk. He said, "No, we would talk about science. We'd talk about grants." Um, occasionally people would talk about what was going on with their families, but I said, "Why did people do it?" And he said, "It just felt really good to be able to relax and say whatever you wanted." Obviously there were no phones then, or even the internet. And the, it was kind of an end of day catharsis. And I said, "On average, do you think those men showed up drunk, obviously, better or worse when they got home?" And he said, "Oh, that was our therapy. That was absolutely our therapy." Now, I don't doubt that there were elements of abuse and all sorts of things that go with alcoholism. I've been very vocal about the fact that I'm, I'm discouraging of people to drink, certainly if they want to be healthier, in very, very low moderation perhaps, but zero's better than any. But where do men go now to relate to one another in a way that builds healthy relating with romantic partners, builds healthy relating at work? Because I'll tell you, just even the notion, I know because I've been told, just the notion of men gathering scares the hell out of a lot of people. The immediate ass- assumption is when guys get together, bad things happen.

    18. TR

      Ah.

    19. AH

      This is, this is the idea. But I also think that we've, um, erased some very powerful vessels for self-understanding and for relating and for, and also for throwing off some of the stresses of the day that frankly don't need to walk in the door at home.

    20. TR

      Yeah.

    21. AH

      And so guys are trying to do it all alone, or on their phones, and then people wonder, and there are a lot of reasons for this, but then people w- wonder why there's so much dissociation and distraction, and, and worse by way of social media. It's like if guys can't hang out and talk, they... Not say drink, but if they can't hang out and talk, then how are they supposed to be their best selves when they go back to their families?

    22. TR

      Y- you're dead right. A- and, you know, we talk about the epidemic of loneliness, we're talking about men. You know, uh, uh, um, a hetero, uh, couple, uh, uh, the, the man dies, uh, women do okay. The woman dies, m- men are in deep trouble. The single men, uh, are the greatest public health crisis, uh, around. And we've talked about relational skills with your family, your woman, your partner if you're gay, um, how about relational skills with pals? And I work with men around getting friends. Uh, m- many of the men that I work with have few to no friends. And I have, it's part of my therapy. I want you to start having friends. And I want them deeper. And I teach men. Go, "Okay, so the six guys you go golfing with and you talk about sports, and politics, and maybe bitch about your wives a little bit, and then that's it. I, I, I want you to try, pick one that you think might be most receptive, and share something a little more vulnerable with them. You know, I've been, uh, I, I've had chronic back pain and I, I'm, I'm getting old. I, I, it's a little scary." Or, if you're a young man, "I've been out of work for, uh, 14 months and I'm getting..." Yo- show some vulnera- and see what they do with it. And you try that with Steve and you get, "Oh, yeah, what about those socks? Uh, he, he ain't having it." Okay. Nice experiment. You're done with Steve. Go back to your superficial relationship. Enjoy it. You talk to Dave, and Dave will, "You know, I can really hear you, man. That, that's tough. Uh, I've been worried too about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. My dick ain't working the way it used to." And, and all of a sudden you're having a heart-to-heart in a way that you may never have had in your life before. So I teach men to experiment.... and to try and drive the relationships deeper by sharing more and seeing what they get. Uh, it's not a shoo-in. This guy may be great, that guy... Y- y- you have to be discriminating. It's just in brain death. Protect yourself. Be discriminating. But also be courageous. Open up and try a little more. Uh, the crisis of men being alone and not having other men to support them and share, uh, is one of the great problems in modern society. On the other hand, uh, I had the privilege of being... and many of your, uh, listeners are too young for this, but, uh, there was a great guy, Robert Bly. Uh, he wrote Iron John, and he was-

    23. AH

      Hey, great book.

    24. TR

      Yeah. And he wa-

    25. AH

      Amazing book.

    26. TR

      He was like the Mr. Men's Movement, guys drumming in the woods. And I went to Moose, uh, Lodge. I was invited.

    27. AH

      So you met him?

    28. TR

      I did one of the, one of the men's weekends, drumming in the woods with Robert and the guys.

    29. AH

      I love the book. I think that it has some brilliant insight about, um, all boys' relationship to their fathers, even if they didn't know their fathers. And, uh, there's this wonderful and terrifying passage in there. Wonderful because it's so astute. Terrifying because it's terrifying, which is, it is the places of absence of the father that the demons enter-

    30. TR

      Yes.

  14. 1:17:51 – 1:25:39

    Fraternities, Men’s Groups, Tool: Relationship vs Individual Support

    1. TR

    2. AH

      It's an amazing story at so many levels and it brings to mind something I've been thinking about for a number of years, which is... Okay, I wasn't in a university fraternity, but I sort of, uh, I entered a fraternity way back when and got involved in skateboarding when there were no parents involved, no girls or women involved. There was like one or two, but it was like just a bunch-

    3. TR

      It was guy territory.

    4. AH

      It was all guys. And the interesting thing about skateboarding is it's, um, to this day, you can be 13 and you're hanging out with people that are in their 30s and 40s, right? So that was my first, I used to say non-biological family, but it was a fraternity of sorts. You sort of like, "I want to be in." And then there's a bunch of tests or not tests and you're, you're part of it. And then eventually I joined the fraternity of science and research, which is its own very interesting different podcast topic. Fraternity, um, with its own great aspects and its own complete bullshit and, uh, you know, et cetera. It's like any fraternity.

    5. TR

      Right.

    6. AH

      When you talk about the crisis of loneliness, especially among men, but even for people who are perhaps happily or at least amicably in a relationship, I feel like what's missing are these "fraternities" that, you know, they don't... They're harder to access now. Um, and people have gone online. I actually think part of the, the success of podcasts, um, certain podcasts, in particular, has been because, um, you know, if you didn't, uh, you know, go to the military or something, you watch a Jocko Willink podcast. And, I mean, Jocko Willink looks like the modern General Patton.

    7. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    8. AH

      And he's a very nice guy, but he's a, he's a no-nonsense guy.

    9. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    10. AH

      I mean, he's a very kind, amazing father, amazing husband to his wife, and great friend. But he's a, he's a warrior. He's a legitimate warrior. And so young men and old men now go online to be... to feel like part of a fraternity, to access these different fraternities, so to speak.

    11. TR

      Yeah.

    12. AH

      But I think there's real value in the in-person, um, work and collaboration. And to some extent what I described before about the, the excessive drinking at the end of the day in the Beach Room and Tolman Hall at Berkeley that took place in the (laughs) '40s, '50s, and '60s-

    13. TR

      Yeah.

    14. AH

      ... that was a fraternity.

    15. TR

      I had it in family therapy.

    16. AH

      Yeah. Th- and, and, but it, it was an important part of learning not just the conventions of the job you're in, but where you sit in this, you know, it's a very touchy word. It's like a third rail word, word nowadays. This, the, the hierarchy, right? But the way I see hierarchy among men is very different. I feel like within a fraternity, you figure out not where you sit on a kind of staircase. You figure out what you're good at, what you're less good at, what you might get better at, and what you'll never get good at. And then you kind of arrange yourselves in a group that you go, "This is great. I'm really good at certain things, terrible at others, and so-so at others." Fortunately, there's complementarity here. They're really good at other things. And so you can learn. And you feel empowered in the best sense of the word because you're like, yeah, we're, we're kind of a, a force because there's no, there's no major gaps here, but not because everyone's validating each other and you're interested in going out and doing bad things. I actually think this is why people go into gangs.

    17. TR

      Gangs are a fra-

    18. AH

      It's a fraternity.

    19. TR

      Uh, gangs are a family, yeah.

    20. AH

      It's a fraternity. And, and th- the home was never the place where you were supposed to feel fraternity.

    21. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. AH

      And I think this is a difficult one for men and women to understand and hear, but especially men nowadays, where young guys will come to me and they'll be like, "I don't know what to do. What should I study? What should I do?" This is not the Stanford students. These are the, some failure to launch or potential failure to launch kids, you know, parents now call me, text me, they get ahold of me. "My kid is a da-da-da." And I'm like, "They have no fraternity."

    23. TR

      Right.

    24. AH

      Their fraternity is video games. That's not a fraternity. They don't have a group that they can go to to figure out what they're good at, what they suck at, and what they could get better at. And so they walk around, and I do, uh, forgive me, but, for going long, but I think that but because y- online you can see all the fraternities, what I also hear is they're overwhelmed. They're like, "Wait, I'm supposed to work out. I'm supposed to also eat right. I'm supposed to be empathically attuned. I'm supposed to be a provider and protector. I'm supposed to..." You know, and they're like, "Holy shit. Like, this is really tough." I was fortunate that, and you were fortunate, that we grew up in a time where the models were w- whatever we were interacting with. Like, when I decided to go into the fraternity of science, sure, I kept exercising and stuff, but what I was like, "Okay, how do I get good at this thing? Who, who are the good mentors? Who are the pieces of shit mentors?" We all talked, and you're in this fraternity, and you learn. Now, that fraternity included women 'cause academia, at least in biology at that time, was about 50/50.

    25. TR

      Okay.

    26. AH

      At the faculty level, it, it's a steep shift.

    27. TR

      Mm-hmm.

    28. AH

      That's changed somewhat now, but the point being, it was never about getting everything from your romantic relationship. The learning, the indoctrination, the learning of self, and the kind of self-esteem and acceptance, a lot of that happened in this context. And I understand there's not a car- carryover of skills (laughs) to the home necessarily, but it, it filled a, a good, good fraction of the vessel of feeling like, yeah, like I, far from perfect. Believe me, I'm replete with flaws to this day. I say it over and over again. (laughs) Uh, and it's true, but where are the fraternities that young men and older men can go to if they don't have one?

    29. TR

      That's tough. Uh, I, I'm a big fan of th- do a men's group. I love men's groups. Pure, you don't need a therapist to lead it. You get together with four other guys and just start talking about your lives. Um, do a bowling league. Um, uh, the, the only thing, uh, I wanna say two things. Uh, one is, I want the fraternity to support your relationality.

    30. AH

      Mm-hmm.

  15. 1:25:39 – 1:27:27

    Sponsor: Function

    1. TR

    2. AH

      I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing. Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health. This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more. They've also recently added tests for toxins such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PFASs or forever chemicals. Function not only provides testing of over a hundred biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas. For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood. Function not only helped me detect that, but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption, I'd been eating a lot of tuna, while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC and acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification. And I should say by taking a second Function test, that approach worked. Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important. There's so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test. The problem is blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated. In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost. It is very affordable. As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast. If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman. Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman podcast listeners. Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function.

  16. 1:27:27 – 1:36:11

    Lack of Male Friends, Hiking, Community, Teaching Young Men

    1. AH

      Recently, I've been approached... Again, parents will reach out and I have a real soft spot for, for doing this. And, and, uh, and they'll say their son. It's their, it's always their son, right? Their, no one's r- reaching out about their daughter, um, to me. Uh, they're saying, "You know, my son is, it's a real problem." Right? Like, "He either graduated college and he's going nowhere. These are smart kids or they didn't graduate and, and it's, uh, getting scary now."

Episode duration: 2:50:30

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode qGb7hYMlA3o

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome