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How to Control Your Inner Voice & Increase Your Resilience | Dr. Ethan Kross

In this episode, my guest is Dr. Ethan Kross, Ph.D., professor of psychology at the University of Michigan, director of the Emotion & Self-Control Laboratory, and author of the bestselling book Chatter. We discuss the purpose of the inner voice in your head and its impact on emotional well-being and motivation. We also explore practical tools to manage negative internal chatter and eliminate intrusive thoughts. Topics include how music, exercise, mental distancing techniques, and expressive writing can help rescript your inner dialogue to be self-encouraging and effective in creating outward behavioral changes. Dr. Kross explains why venting to others is self-defeating and offers better alternatives. Throughout the episode, he provides research-supported, actionable protocols to help you shift your internal dialogue and accompanying emotional state, fostering greater happiness and resilience. Access the full show notes for this episode: https://go.hubermanlab.com/kgs7A7i *Thank you to our sponsors* AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman ExpressVPN: https://expressvpn.com/huberman Eight Sleep: https://eightsleep.com/huberman Joovv: https://joovv.com/huberman Function: https://functionhealth.com/huberman *Dr. Ethan Kross* Website: https://www.ethankross.com Shift: Managing Your Emotions—So They Don’t Manage You: https://amzn.to/3AZtfP5 Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It: https://amzn.to/3V8PB7H Lab Website: https://selfcontrol.psych.lsa.umich.edu University of Michigan academic profile: https://michiganross.umich.edu/faculty-research/faculty/ethan-kross Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ethankross Threads: https://www.threads.net/@ethankross X: https://x.com/ethan_kross LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekross *Timestamps* 00:00:00 Dr. Ethan Kross 00:02:45 Sponsors: ExpressVPN & Eight Sleep 00:05:38 Inner Voice & Benefits 00:10:33 Music & Emotions 00:15:09 Shifting Emotions, Emotional Congruency, Facial Expressions 00:20:25 Resistance to Shifting Emotion; Tool: Invisible Support, Affectionate Touch 00:27:16 Tool: Expressive Writing; Sensory Shifters 00:30:41 Sponsors: AG1 & Joovv 00:33:27 Inner Voice Benefits, Thinking vs. Writing, Tool: Journaling 00:44:01 Decision Making, Individualization; Tool: Exercise 00:50:24 “Chatter,” Trauma, Depression, Anxiety 00:54:37 Sponsor: Function 00:56:25 Tool: Combating Chatter, Mental Distancing; Distraction & Social Media 01:04:30 Tools: 2 AM Chatter Strategy, Mental Time Travel; Venting 01:13:41 Time, Chatter & Flow 01:18:01 Focusing on Present, Mental Time Travel 01:22:49 Texting, Social Media, Sharing Emotions 01:28:31 AI & Individualized Tools for Emotional Regulation 01:33:07 Imaginary Friend, Developing Inner Voice; Negative Emotions 01:40:20 Tool: Nature & Cognitive Restoration; Awe; Screens, Modifying Spaces 01:49:34 Cities vs. Nature, Organizing Space & Compensatory Control 01:56:00 Emotional Regulation & Shifters, Screens 02:01:19 Historical Approaches to Manage Emotions; Motivation & Mental Tools 02:10:12 Mechanical & Behavioral Interventions, Emotional Regulation 02:15:52 Tool: Stop Intrusive Voices; Anxiety 02:21:55 Assessing Risk & Consequence; Flow & Cognitive Engagement 02:31:02 “Cognitive Velocity”; Resetting 02:36:43 Transition States, Tool: Goal Pursuit & WOOP 02:43:59 Attention, Emotional Flexibility; Avoidance 02:54:15 Emotional Contagion 03:00:22 Validating Emotions, Wisdom; Shift Book 03:06:59 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube, Spotify & Apple Follow & Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Protocols Book, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter #HubermanLab #EthanKross #Science #Psychology #Resilience Disclaimer: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer

Andrew HubermanhostDr. Ethan Krossguest
Nov 25, 20243h 9mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. 0:00 – 12:10

    Intro, Sponsors, and Why Inner Voice Matters

    Huberman opens late at night, explains his red glasses and sleep, introduces psychologist Ethan Kross and his work on the inner voice and chatter. They frame the episode: understanding where our inner voice comes from, why it sometimes turns toxic, and what science-backed tools can regulate it. Huberman also sets the context of his podcast as free public education and reads sponsor messages.

  2. 12:10 – 26:40

    What Is the Inner Voice? Swiss Army Knife of the Mind

    Kross defines the inner voice as our ability to use language silently, and differentiates it from chatter. He walks through everyday examples: silently repeating “Go Globetrotters,” memorizing phone numbers, grocery lists, and rehearsing talks. Huberman and Kross compare how they prepare for lectures and live events, highlighting inner simulation and planning.

  3. 26:40 – 41:40

    Music, Sensory Shifters, and Emotional Modulation

    A discussion of how music and other sensory experiences can powerfully shift emotional states. Kross shares a parenting story where Journey’s “Don’t Stop Believin’” flips his daughter’s mood before soccer, illustrating music’s impact. They explore why people listen to music to feel better but rarely list it as a deliberate emotion regulation strategy, and Huberman probes whether mood-incongruent music (sad when happy, happy when sad) helps or hinders.

  4. 41:40 – 51:40

    Support, Reactance, and Invisible Help

    They shift to how others can help or hurt our emotion regulation. Kross explains that unsolicited help can backfire by implying incompetence and provoking defensiveness (reactance). He introduces “invisible support,” where you help someone without spotlighting that they need help. Huberman and Kross give practical examples in marriage, labs, and teams.

  5. 51:40 – 1:10:00

    Touch, Primates, and Effortless vs. Effortful Tools

    Building on support, they discuss affectionate touch as a primal, potent regulator across the lifespan, linking human behavior to primate grooming. Kross contrasts low-effort tools (music, touch, sensory shifts) with effortful ones like expressive writing. They detail the Pennebaker writing paradigm and its extensive evidence base for helping people process adversity.

  6. 1:10:00 – 1:26:40

    Movement, Insight, and Chatter as Attention Sponge

    Huberman shares a major career decision he resolved during speed-bag practice, after cognitive over-analysis failed. Kross suggests unconscious problem-solving is likely at work and describes how he “weaponizes” this by loading up issues before aerobic exercise. They note how chatter hijacks these mental resources by soaking up attention, impairing problem-solving.

  7. 1:26:40 – 1:38:20

    Chatter, Trauma, and Transdiagnostic Mental Health Processes

    They examine how repetitive negative thinking underlies multiple disorders (depression, anxiety, PTSD), depending on content. Kross frames chatter as a transdiagnostic mechanism: the looping process is shared, the themes differ (sadness, fear, trauma). He stresses that experiencing chatter doesn’t mean you have a disorder; intensity and duration differentiate clinical conditions from everyday struggles.

  8. 1:38:20 – 1:56:40

    Social Media, Phones, and the New Emotional Landscape

    Huberman and Kross explore how texting, scrolling, and social media alter emotional processing. Phones offer instant, frictionless distraction from uncomfortable thoughts, but strip away time delays and nonverbal feedback that once constrained emotional expression. Kross describes social media’s early “What’s on your mind?” prompt as a megaphone for the inner voice, and warns that unfiltered emotional discharge online can fuel cyberbullying and outrage, even as it sometimes drives positive change.

  9. 1:56:40 – 2:06:40

    2 A.M. Chatter and Temporal Distancing

    They tackle the common experience of waking at 2–3 a.m. flooded with catastrophic thoughts. Huberman notes this coincides with sleep-architecture shifts into REM and emotionally laden dreams. Kross uses “temporal distancing” at these times, asking how he’ll feel about the problem tomorrow, next week, or in a decade. Knowing that 2 a.m. worries almost always feel smaller in the morning helps down-regulate distress enough to return to sleep.

  10. 2:06:40 – 2:40:00

    Personal Tool Stack and the Chatter Advisory Board

    Kross outlines his own layered strategy: first, immediate cognitive distancing; if needed, physical movement in nature and carefully chosen confidants. He distinguishes helpful conversations from pure venting, stressing that effective support pairs emotional validation with perspective-broadening and problem-solving. He emphasizes early detection of chatter and automatic tool deployment.

  11. 2:40:00 – 3:11:40

    Nature, Awe, and Places as Emotional Tools

    The conversation returns to nature as a regulator, distinguishing two mechanisms: attention restoration and awe-induced perspective shifting. Gentle, fascinating stimuli in green spaces allow executive attention to recover from overuse. Awe (from huge trees, cosmic images, extraordinary human feats) “shrinks the self” and makes problems feel smaller. They extend this to attachment to places, and to deliberately structuring spaces (e.g., keeping phones out, removing tempting food) to support emotion regulation.

  12. 3:11:40 – 3:40:00

    Imaginary Friends, Self-Talk, and Intrusive Dark Thoughts

    Huberman asks about children’s imaginary friends and whether they foreshadow adult inner dialogue. Kross draws on Vygotsky: kids initially externalize self-control messages (“Jimmy, don’t do that”) then internalize them as inner speech. Under high stress, some adults revert to out-loud self-talk. They then normalize intrusive dark thoughts—like Kross’s gym image or parents imagining dropping a baby—framing them as worst-case simulations rather than moral flaws.

  13. 3:40:00 – 4:10:00

    Attention, Flexibility, and When to Face vs. Distract

    They move into attention as a regulation lever, cautioning against simplistic rules like “always face your problems” or “never avoid.” Kross uses his grandmother’s Holocaust story—she mostly avoided dwelling on it, except for an annual remembrance—as an example of healthy, dosed engagement. He advocates flexible deployment: sometimes strategic distraction is right; sometimes you need to turn toward the problem with tools like reframing, writing, or structured conversation.

  14. 4:10:00 – 4:36:40

    WOOP, If–Then Plans, and Automating Self-Control

    Kross introduces WOOP (Wish, Outcome, Obstacles, Plan) as a research-backed method to bridge knowing and doing. Drawing parallels to military planning, he shows how to identify emotional goals, energize them, anticipate internal obstacles, and build specific if–then responses. He shares his own if–then chains for chatter, and Huberman explores how this generalizes to many life domains.

  15. 4:36:40 – 5:08:20

    Historical and Biological Tools vs. Behavioral Science

    They zoom out historically: trephination, lobotomy, ECT, and modern psychedelics as attempts to manage emotions. Huberman notes these are often blunt and not well understood mechanistically. Kross argues behavioral tools (distancing, writing, sensory shifts, nature, relationship strategies) are now evidence-based, low-risk, and often very potent. They speculate that AI could eventually help personalize combinations of tools, something psychology currently struggles to optimize.

  16. 5:08:20 – 5:41:40

    Emotional Contagion, Social Conflict, and Wisdom

    The pair discuss how emotions spread quickly in groups—stadiums, classrooms, online communities—and how leaders must manage tone to keep teams functional. Kross recounts a conflict mediator’s advice: enter hard conversations not to change minds but to understand the other with humility and curiosity. He links this to psychological definitions of wisdom: humility, perspective-taking, acceptance of change, and orientation to the common good.

  17. 5:41:40

    Closing Reflections and Upcoming Book “Shift”

    Huberman closes by underscoring how central inner voice and emotion regulation are to everyday life, comparable in importance to cardiovascular health. He praises Kross’s contributions to both science and public tools, previews Kross’s forthcoming book *Shift*, and reiterates the availability of links and resources. The episode ends with standard Huberman Lab closing notes about subscribing, sponsors, social media, and the free Neural Network newsletter.

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