Jay Shetty Podcast5 Years. 800 Conversations. The 10 Lessons I Learned Too Late
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
70 min read · 13,796 words- 0:00 – 1:25
Intro
- JSJay Shetty
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Before we get into today's episode, I just wanna take a moment to acknowledge this community we've built here on YouTube. When we started this journey, the intention was simple: to create a space where we could all feel less alone, where wisdom felt practical, and conversations explored what it really means to live with purpose. And you turned that into something far bigger than I ever imagined. The community we built together became a place of learning, reflection, and genuine connection. Now, this isn't a goodbye to YouTube. It's a new chapter in how we share these conversations. You'll be able to watch our full video interviews on Netflix and Spotify Video, and we'll continue showing up here on YouTube in new ways as we keep building this community together. The heart of this has never changed. It's always been about helping you live a life that feels more intentional, more meaningful, and more true to who you are. I'm deeply grateful you've been a part of this, and I can't wait to continue this journey together. It's just the beginning. Today's episode felt like the perfect moment to look back. This is a collection of some of the most powerful conversations we've shared over the years, the moments that challenged us, shifted us, and stayed with us. Let's dive in.
- SPSpeaker
I think to myself, I'm like,
- 1:25 – 4:06
Make Your Partner's Day Better
- SPSpeaker
"How can I make Selena's day better?" Like, how... What can I do in my day to make her day better, because then that makes my day better. And I wanted to find a person like that, and I know when Selena wakes up, like, the first thing she's thinking is, like, "How can I make his day better?" And we have such a give and take. Like, I could never even see a world where I would ever yell at her, she would ever yell at me. Like, we don't argue like that. Like, I feel like, I feel like we just have conversations. Like, there's never an argument. Sometimes she'll say... This is so funny.
- SGSelena Gomez
Oh, boy. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
No, no, no. She'll do this, and it's really cool. "I'm feeling a little irritated, and I think I need, like, 25 minutes." And I'll say, "Okay." And then I give her her space, and then after like five minutes, she texts me. She's like, "Hey, will you come back? I miss you."
- SGSelena Gomez
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
But, but it's, but it's knowing that, and we have the proper boundaries set with each other. Like, I don't have to be on top of her every second. She doesn't have to be on top of me every second we're together. I just wanna know she's in the house so I can say like, "Hey, I love you," and then go back to what I'm doing. You know what I mean?
- SGSelena Gomez
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
'Cause, look, we're both highly independent people, okay? But we're both little mushes who just need to be attached at the hip.
- SGSelena Gomez
Yeah. We are so cheesy. It's so fun.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I love the maturity. I mean, hearing you both talk about it-
- SGSelena Gomez
Yes, but let's be clear.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- SGSelena Gomez
We are not the perfect-
- SPSpeaker
No, no, no
- JSJay Shetty
It's not perfect-
- SPSpeaker
We're so silly and-
- JSJay Shetty
No, but you're disagreeing. No, no, no, but I, I think the maturity of... And, and I agree with you. I think, I think that's actually the difference, and I'm glad you brought that up. I think there's a big difference between maturity and perfection.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Perfection is saying, "We never have a disagreement. We never have to take space from each other. We ne-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... you know, which you're not saying. You're saying, "Hey, I just asked for 25 minutes space."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And then I was like, "Wait a minute, I need you."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And I think there's a maturity in that because it requires maturity from both parts-
- SGSelena Gomez
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... for you to first say, "Hey, I need space," for you to say, "I get it, I respect you," and then for you to have the maturity to say, "Actually, I want you back"-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and for you to be like, not like, "Oh, I told you so." For you to be like, "I'm here for you." Like, that, that's not perfection. To me, that's maturity, and I think that's... I really want people to get that from it, that you are gonna have disagreements. You are gonna want space. Like, me and Raleigh went through that. She, at the beginning of our relationship, if we had a disagreement, and we were the same. We never... We made a rule that we'd never raise our voices at each other because I came from a home where it was not great.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- 4:06 – 10:11
How to Have Better Conversations
- JSJay Shetty
it took a long time for us to realize that when she, at the start of our disagreements, she wanted space. And I used to say to her, "Well, if you don't wanna talk about it right now, that means you don't care about me." And that wasn't true. She just needed space to process. So it took time for us to mature, for me to realize, "Wait a minute, you wanting space is you caring-
- SGSelena Gomez
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... for the relationship."
- SPSpeaker
When you start dating someone, you're not only dating them, you're dating every single person they've ever dated, every single relationship they've ever had in their past, every... Because you're getting every piece of baggage that that person's carried and that, what they've learned through their own personal life, through the life with partners, with their parents, with this, that. And I had to find a way to build that trust with her, not make it feel overbearing, and make it feel real, and make her actually believe it, and vice versa. Like, I know that she fully tru- If I say, "Hey, I'm just going to do this today," there's nowhere in her mind that's thinking that. And if for any chance that she... I always told her, I said, "It's okay. If you have moments of doubt in something, in a feeling, always talk to me and I'll talk you through anything that you may have." You know, if you say, "Hey, I know this is a crazy thing. I just had a dream, and I woke up from this dream, and I was upset." Sometimes she'll just say, like, "Please tell me I can trust you," or, "Please tell me you're not doing anything stupid." And I say, "You can call me anytime you want." And, and I'm aware of her strengths, and I'm aware of her weaknesses, and what I try to do is surround her with a lot of things to help her. So if she's away and I have to go to a dinner, then a party, then this thing, then that thing, it's a simple text in between each things that says, "Hey, babe, I'm going to this next thing. I'm thinking about you."
- JSJay Shetty
Wait, so the album [laughs] I Said I Love You First.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
So Selena, you said I love you first.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, she said it a few-
- JSJay Shetty
What, what made you wanna say that? Because that's a big step, I assume
- SGSelena Gomez
I definitely have never been the first. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
So this is the first time in your life you were the first?
- SGSelena Gomez
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- SGSelena Gomez
I wanted him to also know how committed I was, and deep down I just felt that. And I, I just was tired of protecting myself. We had spent enough time together where, uh, you know, I felt like this was my person, and I f- I had the courage enough to say it, but I was very nervous, and luckily he said it back. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And the thing that's crazy is, you know, before you say, "I love you," it's like this thing. It's like taboo, you're scared to say. And then after you're like, "Oh my God, I can't..." Like, you want to say it a thousand times in a row.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
You never want- I can't even understand how I went so long without saying it to her. I say it 3,000 times a day to her, and I like, I, I make sure every day I say, "I love you so much." Like, I love you a million times, and then I always tell her how beautiful she is and how lucky I am to have her every day. You know, and I-
- SGSelena Gomez
It's so annoyingly cute. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And I always want... No, and I always want to do that-
- SGSelena Gomez
Oh, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... because I want her to know-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... that every day, I don't take any of-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... anything for granted. And I still look at her and my breath gets taken away in so many different ways, and I, I said it to her last night. We were sitting, we, we were in, like, the pool or something together last night, and we were just hanging out, and I was just like, "You're so beautiful." And I don't mean that just physically. I'm saying, like, you can feel it. There's like a ring, like an aura around her that exudes just, like, warmth, and it, and it just-
- SGSelena Gomez
You're, like, making me want to cry.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] And I, and I-
- JSJay Shetty
How do you react in the moment when that happens, Selena? 'Cause Benny, we're basically the same person. I do the same thing to my wife.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
I do that to Radhi all the time.
- 10:11 – 12:25
Fame Is the Biggest Drug
- SPSpeaker
The biggest drug, it's not cocaine, it's not heroin, it's not, uh, molly or opioids. And the biggest drug is fame.
- JSJay Shetty
And now it's more accessible in different doses.
- SPSpeaker
It's the b- it's the biggest drug.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And the reason why it's the biggest drug, because it's a drug that makes you feel like you are powerful and, like, everywhere you go, anything you want, everything you want. It's, it's a thing, and if you can't handle this thing, the consequences attached-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... to when that thing is removed are severe. Nobody prepares you for the world of fame.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
There is no handbook. There is no outline. There is no-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... guide by guide, step one to step 10. There's nothing. You get it, and yesterday you weren't, and today you are.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. And tomorrow you're not.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, well, nope, we're done.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
People get shell-shocked.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
That to me has always been the point of no return.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
At the end of the day, this can wear off if and when however sees or decides, and if that were to happen, well, what am I? Where am I? It's all gonna, it's all gonna center back to are you happy-
- JSJay Shetty
Right
- SPSpeaker
... with who you are and what you did? Are you at a point where you are okay?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Do you know you, and are you okay with you? If you are not, it'll break you.
- JSJay Shetty
Your energy's incredible and, and just the depth. What I love about this, and this was my vision with this show, and you are helping me achieve that, which I'm very grateful for, is I don't think, and I love that you've been doing this more and more with the Audible, with Heart to Heart, like, we're getting to see your depth. We're getting to see the mind behind you. Again, as we said earlier, we like to limit people. We like to limit people into, like- You just be a comedian, or you just be a race car driver, or you just be a actor, and it's like we're starting to realize that, like you said, you're not just watching someone's life on TV. There's a human here. There's, there's a story here, and we're getting that with you.
- 12:25 – 17:15
Appreciate Life Before It's Too Late
- JSJay Shetty
Do you think it was ... Was this something, was this an epiphany that you had before the accident? Or was it that this really ... Because in your Audible, when you talk about, like, how when it's just silent-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... you figure out what really matters. Like, when I heard that, I was just thinking, like, are near-death experiences ... You were told when you came out of it you should be dead, and you're like, "Well, I don't remember anything." Does that feel like that was a moment that there is a massive awakening, or were you already kind of working with some of this?
- SPSpeaker
No, I, I had a ... I was always a transparent and authentic person, but-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... you definitely change.
- JSJay Shetty
That's what ... Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Right? You, you definitely change, and by the way, still changing. I'm not sitting in front of you-
- JSJay Shetty
All of us. Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... yes, as a-
- JSJay Shetty
Me too
- SPSpeaker
... un-unflawed man.
- JSJay Shetty
Me too.
- SPSpeaker
Like, I, I am my dad's child, and my, I'm my mother's child as well. There's nothing more humbling than a quiet room. There's nothing more humbling than the realization of what is really, like, necessary.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
What you take for granted and what we don't think twice about is not until that's compromised that the true appreciation for life, I feel like, can sometimes be had. I don't wanna speak for everybody because I think there are some people that truly do get it and that truly do thank whatever their space, um, or version of a higher power is daily for life and for what they do. Um, you know, I believe in God, so I'm, I'm not as spiritual as some may be, but I'm very thankful for the life that God has allowed me to, to live and the opportunities that I've been able to embark upon. But I got a lot more appreciation after life was almost gone.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Right? Like, do you really appreciate your toes?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Do you really appreciate your fingers? Like, do you really think about your movement, your joints, vision, smell? Do you really think about how fortunate and, and lucky you are? It's the only time where I get a little ... where I slow up.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Right? And when, when I'm slowing up, it's because the reality of that was significant. I really almost died. My kids and all that, like, what ... As I'm moving so fast, I didn't even have everything dialed up for if said thing were to happen. What, what ... Oh, 'cause I'm, I'm out here, I'm just roaming. I'm out here aimlessly living, and I'm moving so fast, I've yet to grasp the true concept and reality-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... of responsibility. Immediately, let me get my responsibilities in order. Because if that had have been-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... there would've been a lot of people with their hands up as to what, how, when. Fame is great. The lights are great. Kevin Hart, Kevin Hart, Kevin Hart. Number one, number one, number one. If I was in that room with my goddamn wife, my brother, my kids. You look around, you got a lot of friends. You got a lot of people that love you, but then you start to ... Well, what really matters? That's when my mindset started to change. That's when you go, "Okay, my approach to just me and working on me, it needs to be different." I've contradicted myself a lot since. You know, you know, I wanna slow down. I'm gonna make sure I give my family more time. I have. That doesn't mean that there can't be more.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
The day-to-day battle of, am I giving enough? Am I ... Guys, you know how much Dad loves you. I'm here. I'm, like, you know, always working to make sure and do more, but is it enough?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Am I a workaholic? Okay, but that's not a bad thing, uh, 'cause I'm ... You love to work. Yes, you do. That's a passion. You get, you got something that you go after every day. That is a driving source for me. I'm not in the business of letting that go. But boy, you better put your hands on these people and make sure.
- 17:15 – 20:10
Nothing Lasts Forever
- KKKim Kardashian
I mean, stuff. I live in an area where there would be fires a lot, and there was probably four times we had to fully pack up the house. Everything out, houses catching on fire, property caught on fire, like really close to losing everything. First time, packed up my entire shoe and bag closet, and a lot of them 'cause they were memory stuff from my dad, stuff from high school, but all designer stuff. Also, videos, photos, whatever. Digitized everything, put everything important somewhere else. Second pack up, the designer stuff, but leave some, leave some of the clothes. You know, I don't really need all the clothes. But I packed a hotel for months, bags and ba- every designer thing that I had had to come. Third time, leave all the bags and shoes. I don't, I don't need them. We got all the, we got all the photos. We got all the, my little blankie when I was little You know, the kids' stuff, fourth time, leave everything. Me and my babies, that's all I need. You know? I have all my photos digitized. I have everything digital. We got our passports, we're good.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KKKim Kardashian
And that, like, evolution of, like, "They had to go in and get all my designer stuff," or, "I'm not leaving my house, you know? It's gonna catch on fire."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KKKim Kardashian
And now I'm like, "Nothing is worth it. Nothing is important." And I think that comes from life experiences, scary experiences, things shaking you to your core to make you realize that nothing is important. You can't-- I know everyone says this, but, like, you can't take it with you. None of it is important.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. There's a beautiful Islamic proverb that says, "Detachment doesn't mean that you own nothing. It means that nothing owns you."
- KKKim Kardashian
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And I feel so often we become owned by our-
- KKKim Kardashian
I love that
- JSJay Shetty
... dreams, our desires, our pursuits, our things.
- KKKim Kardashian
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
It doesn't mean that we have to give them all away or we don't have those things. It's just-
- KKKim Kardashian
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... if and when we have to let go-
- KKKim Kardashian
Totally
- JSJay Shetty
... are we willing, are we able to let go?
- KKKim Kardashian
Totally. Even with work stuff. I mean, it doesn't just have to be the material things.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- KKKim Kardashian
Like you said, like, your dreams, and it's okay to be able to let go, but work so hard to-- like, the opposites are okay.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- KKKim Kardashian
Contradicting yourself a little bit in those ways.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KKKim Kardashian
You know? It's like in, in relationships, you can love a person, miss a person so much, but still have the wisdom to know they're not your person and you're better off not together. That, like, opposite connection with everything I think is really important to have that awareness in everything in life, relationships, material things, all of that.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- 20:10 – 22:09
Grow Through Every Experience
- JSJay Shetty
I, I, I, I officiated a wedding a few years ago, and someone came up to me from the audience and, and said to me, "Jay, I realized from what you were saying that"-- they'd just gone through a breakup recently, and they were saying, "Jay, I realized that I loved that person, but we didn't like each other anymore."
- KKKim Kardashian
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And it was that essence of, like, there'll always be that deep love for each other-
- KKKim Kardashian
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... but we just don't, like-
- KKKim Kardashian
Like family.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- KKKim Kardashian
You know? Like, you love people and-- but it's okay to, to feel a protection of a person-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KKKim Kardashian
... but then also protecting yourself-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KKKim Kardashian
... and realizing when you have to-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KKKim Kardashian
... and when it's time, and it's okay to feel all of the opposite emotions, you know? I think as long as you're really well aware-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KKKim Kardashian
... and go through the motions and feel things and don't hold things in, it's so important. Whether it's, you know, breakups, deaths, I've always been really clear-headed, and, like, gone through the feelings, gone through the emotions more in those relationships, more in those lifelong relationships that you hope for-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KKKim Kardashian
... and then also be okay and calm and realizing-- I've always been someone, like, okay, my dad died. What-- why is this happening? What was his purpose here? And how are we gonna grow and learn from this experience? And I always said that, like, right when he passed, and I was-- felt it and super emotional about it and, you know, cry all the time when great things happen that I wish he was here. But also, I had a wisdom at, like, a younger age to understand that this is, like, a part of our journey and a part of our, like, evolution and this happens, and this is why you have to hold on to relationships even more precious. But don't let things
- 22:09 – 24:04
Why We Lost Inner Peace
- KKKim Kardashian
destroy you at the same time.
- MAMadonna
We live in a very busy, chaotic world. Lots of noise, lots of distraction. I mean, how many times have you heard people say, "Oh, you know, social media," and, like, all the, you know, people can't walk down the street without listening to music. Everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time. Like, there is no peace. There is no quiet. We're, we're not comfortable being quiet with ourselves and looking inward and asking ourselves, "Why am I here?" or, "What am I doing?" or, "What is my intention in this specific choice I'm making right now?" Whether it's about my work or the way I'm raising my children, decisions that I make about everything really-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- MAMadonna
... I have to ask myself. And if you don't have a spiritual life, you're never gonna stop and ask any questions. You're just gonna plow through life. And if you just-- and, and, and you're gonna see everything that happens to you as just a random event, and I don't believe that anything is random. I think everything that happens to us is meant to happen to us, um, to teach us some kind of a lesson. But, you know, the question is, are you aware enough? Are you awake enough? Are you interested enough to find out what that reason is? Like, why did this happen to me? What is my lesson? I don't wanna go through life seeing everything that happens to me as random, but I also don't wanna go through life as a victim. And I've had a pretty challenging life, and it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or, like, being a victim or, you know, why, why isn't this happening to other people? Why is it happening to me? Why don't I have what that person has? I'm sure you know the expression, comparison is the killer of joy. So, you know, it's like to, you gotta-- to get out of that game, you have to have a spiritual life. You just have to.
- JSJay Shetty
You're reminding me of
- 24:04 – 25:50
The Power of Third Spaces
- JSJay Shetty
something beautiful that I came across called the Third Space Theory. Have you heard of it?
- MAMadonna
Mm-mm.
- JSJay Shetty
It's this idea that as humans, around 50 years ago, we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home, and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church. A community center or a third space. And the point of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying, was a place that you could look back at work and home, and you could reflect on your life. You could take stock. You could introspect. But as time's gone on, what's happened is we lost that third space.
- MAMadonna
Hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
We stopped going to temple, church, community, whatever it may be.
- MAMadonna
A place of self-reflection.
- JSJay Shetty
A place of self-reflection.
- MAMadonna
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And we ended up with work and home, and then after the pandemic, we lost work. And so now we're in one space, and we don't have a different vantage point to where we are anymore, which is what I think you're saying.
- MAMadonna
Go back an, even one more step that to me is like a prison. Get, if you get, if you remove the spiritual life, spiritual practice, you remove the workplace, then you, you're in the home. And then removed once more from home is you're looking at your phone.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- MAMadonna
Which is, even takes you out of home.
- JSJay Shetty
That's a great point, yeah.
- MAMadonna
So-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- MAMadonna
... like, where are you?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- MAMadonna
You're nowhere.
- JSJay Shetty
We're all living in the virtual world.
- MAMadonna
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. We're living in the virtual world, not even in the material world. We're just-
- MAMadonna
Yes, but a virtual, and a virtual world is not a bad world, but if you don't have consciousness, there's really no point to living.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. It's, yeah, so it's, it's, it's interesting to think about that because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea that if we all had, we need physical spaces to sometimes make us do internal things.
- MAMadonna
Yes. I mean,
- 25:50 – 29:08
Make Time to Study
- MAMadonna
some kind of ritualistic behavior ha- has to happen.
- JSJay Shetty
What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued. What, I'm curious. What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been so supportive and emblematic of your journey that have kept you going at the times, as you said, there were so many times you could give up or things could go wrong, or you kept pushing and you ke- they kept you locked. What were they? What are they?
- MAMadonna
Well, one really important thing is studying, making time every week to sit down and study. I mean, you can study the Bible. You can study the poetry of Kahlil Gibran, or you can study the Vedas. You, you know.
- JSJay Shetty
And you did that, right?
- MAMadonna
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
You actually studied different traditions on your-
- MAMadonna
I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbalah, I, I was looking for answers, and-
- JSJay Shetty
Why do you think that was? Why were you looking for answers?
- MAMadonna
Because I had everything that people would assume would give you happiness. I had successful career. I had fame, fortune, monetary things, physical things. But I wasn't happy, and I naturally sought out ... Well, when I was a dancer, I had a roommate. She was a Buddhist, and she would get up and chant every day. And so I was very intrigued by that. Like, nothing bothered her. You know what I mean? Everything bothers me. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- MAMadonna
Everything bothers me. I'm, you know, I'm a Leo. I'm, I'm Italian.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- MAMadonna
I'm very dramatic. Um.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- MAMadonna
I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but I was just struck by her confidence-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- MAMadonna
... and her, um, knowingness that everything was happening for a reason.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- MAMadonna
She never got upset about things. And this is in the beginning of my career when I was living in New York, and I was broke, and a lot of crazy things happened to me, s- really scary, traumatic things. And I would always ask her, her name is Mariana, I would always say, "What, like, why are you, like, never upset?" So I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't speak to me. And then later on I started practicing yoga, Ashtanga yoga. And my teacher, Eddie, um, Stern, he still has a-
- JSJay Shetty
I know him. Love Eddie. He's great.
- MAMadonna
You know Eddie?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, I do. Yeah.
- MAMadonna
Oh. Yeah, he's amazing. I got quite caught up in and competitive about, like, first series, second series, third series.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- MAMadonna
But one thing I noticed is that a lot of people would come into his pra- his practice, his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do the poses. They would just go and sit in front of the statue of Ganesh or light candles or prayer. And I realized, and Eddie pointed it out to me, 'cause sometimes I would have injuries, I would, or I would be traveling and I couldn't practice yoga, and he'd say, "Look, are you breathing?" And I'd say, "Yes." And he said, "You're practicing yoga." So I realized that I was too, still too caught up in the physical poses. And he's like, "No, you don't understand. You're missing the whole point. The poses are just something that you do to bre- to breathe through to calm your nervous system down and to bring you back to your center." And that really spoke to
- 29:08 – 31:22
It's Normal to Outgrow Friendships
- MAMadonna
me.
- EWEmma Watson
You know, you always get asked when you're, like, promoting these big films, like, "So do you guys hang out on set?" And like, "Do you guys hang out?" And like, "Are you all friends?" And everyone sort of, like, nods enthusiastically. But the truth is no one has seen each other outside of work, like very, very, very rarely. Mostly because the schedule is insane. Everyone's so tired that when they get any time off, you're going straight back to your hotel room to try to, like, claw in any piece of rest that you possibly can. And, like, I don't know. Like, it, friendships require time and trust and presence, and those things, like, very rarely come about. They, they can, and they, like, do occasionally. But it, it's more of a, more of a, you know, solar eclipse than a-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- EWEmma Watson
[laughs] than an everyday situation. So yeah. Uh, but you have to pretend. I think that's the part that starts to feel icky after a while is, like, you, you have to pretend that you're all best friends. And what's so sad, and, and I, I know this isn't just the case for me, but, like, I think people wish they were.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- EWEmma Watson
I think we wish we did have those real connections, and we did have that real support. And so having to pretend that something exists that you actually really want but don't have Is like-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- EWEmma Watson
It's like-
- JSJay Shetty
That's it
- EWEmma Watson
... pretty grainy in the wounds, you know? It's like, it's pretty, like, tough pill to swallow to have to act out something that you wish were real but isn't real.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- EWEmma Watson
Um, and I think that's the part that starts to kind of, yeah. I can only speak for myself, but those are definitely the moments where I've been like, "This feels dark."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- EWEmma Watson
Like, is anyone else, like, this feels dark.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- EWEmma Watson
Um, yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And, and there's such a real reminder that it's still work.
- EWEmma Watson
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's almost like asking anyone who works at any company and saying, "Hey, do you hang out with your team after work every night?" And the answer is-
- EWEmma Watson
So, no. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
... probably no.
- EWEmma Watson
Go home.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, no, everyone wants to go home to their family.
- EWEmma Watson
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And maybe you've got a couple of, of course you've got a couple of friends at work.
- EWEmma Watson
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's wonderful if you have a friend at work that you work out with or-
- EWEmma Watson
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... see after hours, but-
- EWEmma Watson
Yeah
- 31:22 – 33:48
Growing Up as Hermione Granger
- JSJay Shetty
personal stories, and it doesn't... And I, I, that's why I wanted to go back. You mentioned that-
- EWEmma Watson
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... you talked about how Harry Potter had a family feel.
- EWEmma Watson
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And I wanted to ask you, like, how did that come about in the first place? What, what was, where, where did the auditions come from? Like, how did that become a part of your life?
- EWEmma Watson
Yes. So I did not go to a performing arts school. I'd never done anything, I never acted professionally, but they came, they, they did, like, a basically countrywide search to find Harry, Hermione, and Ron. And so they asked my school if they wanted to submit any students who loved drama, who wanted to audition. And so I was one of, I think, about 12 students that was asked if I wanted to audition. I don't know. It was weird. I had this weird, weighted, fated sense of destiny pretty much from the moment that, that they said, they mentioned the audition. I remember [laughs] I brought, I think, maybe like seven different Beanie Babies with me along, and, like, all these different, like, lucky talismans. And I loved the world and the books so much. My dad had been reading them to me before bed when I would-
- JSJay Shetty
Wow
- EWEmma Watson
... spend the weekends with him, and on long car journeys. We'd often drive back and forwards to France, and that's how the time would be passed. And so I was just, like, loved the world, loved Hermione, and for me, it wasn't so much about acting so much as it was that, like, I just, the books meant so much to me personally.
- JSJay Shetty
Did you feel like it was destiny for you, or did it feel like, did you always feel like it was gonna be this?
- EWEmma Watson
I always-
- JSJay Shetty
'Cause obviously the books were already, you know.
- EWEmma Watson
I always felt like Hermione was, I knew I was never auditioning for anything else. Like, I knew it was her. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. Something felt right about it.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- EWEmma Watson
And my, yeah, my poor parents, because if I hadn't have got it, I think they knew how crushed I... I ended up doing nine auditions over a period of over a year and a half, which for a nine-year-old is-
- JSJay Shetty
A lot of work
- EWEmma Watson
... a massive commitment. But I was, I loved her.
- 33:48 – 35:54
The Power of Being Still
- EWEmma Watson
I loved it. I really did.
- SPSpeaker
What I try to do is just try to be still.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And understand that things come and go, emotions come and go. The important thing is to accept them all, to embrace them all, and then you can choose to do with them what you want versus being controlled by emotion. You know, a lot of times I've seen players, even myself, you know, when I was younger, being consumed by a particular fear, um, and to the point where you're saying, "Okay, nah, it's, it's not good to feel fear. I shouldn't be nervous in this situation. Like, nah." And it does nothing but grow versus stepping back and saying, "Yeah, I, I am nervous about the situation. Yeah, I am fearful about the situation, but what am I afraid of?" And then you kind of unpack it.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And then it gives you abil- ability to look at it for really what it is, which is nothing more than your imagination [laughs] running its course, you know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love that, 'cause what you're saying is that when you're dealing with something, it's almost like how can I get to the root of it?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Because sometimes what we're dealing with, like you're saying, it's an imagination, an illusion. It's not really-
- SPSpeaker
It's not, it's not really a thing-
- JSJay Shetty
... struggle. Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... you know? Like, y- you think about game-winning shots and, or game-winning free throws, and people go to the free-throw line and they're nervous about it. Well, what are you really nervous about? If you unpack that, okay, you, you're nervous that you're gonna miss the shot. All right, so you miss the shot, then what happens?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
People are gonna be embarrassed. You're gonna be embarrassed because thousands of people, millions of people see you miss the shot, all right? And then what? People are gonna talk bad about you. Okay. Right? And so you're looking at it and you go, "Are those things even important?" [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
You know what I mean? If that-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... that is my fear, like, what, what is, you're worried about letting your teammates down? Okay, have you let them down before? Oh, I'm sure, in practice and things of that nature, right? They're still there.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
You know? And so when you're able to unpack it, you kinda look at it for what it is, which is really nothing.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, I love that. Breaking it down, I think that's so important. I think everyone who's listening and watching right now, next time you're facing a fear, next time you're going against something, do that. Like, literally-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... unpack it. Don't just settle for your first answer, because the first answer's rarely the right one.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, don't hide from it, you know? You gotta be able to look at it and, you know, and, and, and deal with it head-on.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- 35:54 – 37:29
Get Over Yourself
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I love that, man. And, and you talk about that, because you talk about, you know, when you talk about missing, uh, five throws and you talk about, uh, getting over yourself.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Right?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, getting over yourself. How did you get that mentality of just being like, "I need to get over this. Like, I need to get over myself"?
- SPSpeaker
You know, trial and error.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
You know, you grow up and you make game-winning shots and it's awesome. And you come back the next day and miss a game-winning shot and it's misery. And then the next day comes and you're back playing again, and you understand that life has this cyclical nature where it's, you know, what you do on Monday is fantastic, but then Tuesday's a bad day. But guess what? There's Wednesday.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
So are we just supposed to live our lives like this the whole time?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
You know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Versus just staying like this and understanding that it's really just a journey of Evolution every day. It's just constant improvement, constant curiosity, constantly getting better. The results don't really matter. Uh, it's the figuring out that matters.
- THTom Holland
Yeah. And we all get obsessed about the results.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
Like, we get obsessed about, like, the output-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- THTom Holland
... not the input, of not figuring it out and not, like, changing things. What you said, trial and error, like the experimenting.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
We forget to do that.
- SPSpeaker
It's unfortunate, man. Like, I, I've seen a lot of players, um, especially now in, you know, in, in youth basketball dealing with that. Um, you have players that are, like, bigger and faster and stronger and, you know, their coaches are just coaching them for results. You know, "We're just gonna use your size that, 'cause you're bigger than every other 12-year-old out there, to dominate today." A- a- but they're not growing.
- THTom Holland
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Right? So they're just based on that result, but they're not focused on growing this young child-
- THTom Holland
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... into becoming a better athlete and, and through that, teaching them how to become a more well-rounded person,
- 37:29 – 39:10
The Power of Playing the Long Game
- SPSpeaker
and we're missing that.
- THTom Holland
Yeah. See, what you've said there, just, it... I wanna ask you this, and I'm not saying... 'cause I, you know, like, you know yourself best and you know how you've got there, so I'm asking it from a place of humility, of learning. When I look at you, I'm like, you know, your superpower isn't just your work ethic. Your superpower isn't just, like, figuring things out. Your superpower is, like, you think strategically. Like, that's a very strategic thought of saying, "This person could be this in the future if they were developed as a whole-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- THTom Holland
... individual-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- THTom Holland
... rather than just, like, let's use them for the short term."
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- THTom Holland
Like, where did you develop that from, that ability to see beyond, to think deeper, to, to reflect deeper? Where did that come from?
- SPSpeaker
Mm, well, I had to do that because, you know, I grew up, growing up in Italy, um, when I first moved over there it was, you know, I didn't speak Italian. I didn't have any friends. You know, I had the game of basketball, and through sport and playing soccer I was able to make friends and build connections, but it was a lot of time spent alone. And, and when I came back to the States, I wasn't the most athletic kid. You know, I was really scrawny, like, really, really skinny and had, like, major knee issues 'cause I was growing.
- THTom Holland
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
So I was the dorky kid with high socks and big old knee pads.
- THTom Holland
It's fashionable now. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
It's fashionable now. It wasn't then. It wasn't then. And, and so, um, I had to look long term because in the here and now I couldn't compete with these kids. I mean, I- there was kids that were, like, 12 years old with beards.
- THTom Holland
Mm. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Like, I can't, I can't... What am I supposed to do with that? Like, they're, they're doing windmills and dunking backwards, and I'm happy to, like, tap the backboard, you know? So I had to look at it from a long term 'cause I wasn't gonna give up on the game.
- THTom Holland
Right.
- SPSpeaker
So I had to say, "Okay, this year I'm gonna get better at that."
- THTom Holland
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
"Next year, this," and then so forth and so on. And then patiently I
- 39:10 – 40:03
Choosing Gratitude Over Comparison
- SPSpeaker
was able to catch them.
- THTom Holland
The quote is, "If you have a problem with me, text me. And if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me."
- SPSpeaker
That is so good. [laughs]
- THTom Holland
And I think that that is such a great piece of advice because as a celebrity, you live on this stage. You live out there. You kind of give out a version of yourself that you want people to see.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- THTom Holland
And that can be the version of yourself that they can have a problem with or they can love. And there is a... You know, I feel like I'm quite authentic in my public persona, but I just try to really care about what my family thinks, what my friends think, what the people in my local community think. I l- live in Kingston. I know everyone that lives there. I can't walk five feet without bumping into one of my mom's friends. So yeah, so it's something I've been working on. I try my best to not let that stuff affect me. It does.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, of course.
- THTom Holland
I'm not cold-hearted or anything like that.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- THTom Holland
It does affect me, but I just try to, to move
- 40:03 – 41:17
Knowing When to Step Away
- THTom Holland
on and focus on the positives.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, absolutely.
- THTom Holland
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Absolutely. What, what was a... Did you ever see your dad deal with everything and you thought, "Wow, that was incredible"? Like, was there anything specific that you remember that, like, seeing him, like, tackle something and you thought, "Wow, that really impressed me," even if it was something really small in hindsight?
- THTom Holland
I think the thing I admire most about my dad is his resilience. You know, he's someone who has had an incredibly successful career in his earlier life, and then later in life his career sort of plateaued and he struggled, and he's never stopped. He's never given up. He's still gigging to this day. He's still writing books. He has a Patreon. He has a podcast. He's constantly grafting to get to where he wants to be, and I think being a young kid and seeing your dad continually working as hard as he can to kind of put his best foot forward, for me, has been a huge drive for my work ethic. I'll give it 100%, or I'll give it nothing, and I think a lot of that has come from my dad-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- THTom Holland
... and seeing him deal with that. The funny thing about my dad is you talk about doing a bad gig. I must have seen him 20 times. I've never seen him do a bad gig.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- THTom Holland
He always seems to absolutely rip it. Um, but maybe that's just 'cause we're in the audience.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- THTom Holland
But he, um... But no, I, I, I owe a lot to my dad and a lot of the teachings are things he's told me
- 41:17 – 43:11
Escaping the Version of Yourself You Created
- THTom Holland
and things I've just witnessed him do.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. And was there ever a piece of feedback or a rumor or something you saw that did affect you, where you actually thought, where it or at least made you stop and go, "God, I'm trying to see the positives, but this one's tough"? Like, like, "This actually made me have to pause and figure it out"?
- THTom Holland
Something that did really upset me, I was in New York. I was shooting The Crowning- Crowded Room, and I was having a really hard time with the job just because of how taxing it was, the emotional capacity that I was having to get to every day. And I decided to delete my Instagram because I just felt like I was so addicted to this kind of false version of my life that it was just taking over. I would be on set working. I'd come and sit in my chair and just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. And it was, it was becoming a problem. I was just obsessed with it, and I was obsessed to find out what people were saying and how people, what they thought about me. So I decided to make an announcement, which unfortunately we have to do, and say that I'm taking a break from social media. And I, and I tried to position myself and say, like, "I'm taking a break from social media because I feel like my mental health will benefit from it." And the thing that really upset me is the press ran with that, and they tried to make out that I was having this mental breakdown. And what upset me was If I was having a mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on. They, they, they took the story in the wrong direction, and they tried... They painted, again, this negative light on mental health. Rather than saying, "Oh, he's doing it. It's okay that he's doing it, so we should all feel okay to do it too," they were saying, "Oh look, he's not the perfect happy-go-lucky kid you think he is. He's having a nervous breakdown in New York." And I think that that was a really unfair line of journalism, let's say, because I just think it, again, kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong
- 43:11 – 47:45
The Wake-Up Call That Changed My Life
- THTom Holland
light, if you know what I mean.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It almost sounds like you were actually preemptively going, "I'm doing this so that I don't- [laughs]
- THTom Holland
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... go in that direction."
- THTom Holland
Totally.
- JSJay Shetty
At s- at, at least I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it's like-
- THTom Holland
Absolutely
- JSJay Shetty
... it's almost like I'm proactively seeing that I could end up in a position where-
- THTom Holland
Sure
- JSJay Shetty
... I might have a breakdown. I don't wanna be in that position, and so I'm responsibly saying, "Guys, I'm taking a break-
- THTom Holland
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... in order to protect myself."
- THTom Holland
100%.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, which makes a lot of sense and actually is quite admirable again.
- THTom Holland
Totally, and that's kinda what the message of the show is about. Like, the, the message of our show is that asking for help should be something that we celebrate.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
If you're struggling, if you need help, if you feel bad and you wake up and, and you go to a friend, a therapist, a teacher, an employee or a colleague and say, "I'm really struggling. I need some help," that should be something that we give you a pat on the back. Like, "I would love to help you. That... I'm, I'm delighted that you asked me." And that, for me, that announcement was kind of my olive branch, and the press ran with it how they ran with it. But to be fair, it kind of gave me a great drive to finish The Crowded Room in the way that we did to like, if you're not gonna listen to my personal message, then you have to listen to the message of my show.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
So it kind of went hand in hand. I just wanted to do dry January, and all I could think about was having a drink. It's all I could think about. I, I was waking up thinking about it. I was checking the clock. When's it 12:00? And it just really scared me. I just was like, "Wow, maybe, maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing." So I sort of decided to punish myself and say I'll do February as well. I'll do two months off. If I can do two months off, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem. Two months go by, and I was still really struggling. I felt like I couldn't be social. I felt like I couldn't go to the pub and have a lime soda. I couldn't go out for dinner. I was really, really struggling, and I started to really worry that maybe I had an alcohol problem. Um, so I decided that I would wait until my birthday, which is June 1st. I said to myself, "If I can do six months without alcohol, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem." And by the time I had got to June 1st, I was the happiest I've ever been in my life. I could sleep better. I could handle problems better. Things that would go wrong on set that would normally set me off, I could take in my stride. I had so much, such better mental clarity. I felt healthier. I felt fitter, and I just sort of said to myself, like, "Why, why am I enslaved to this drink? Why am I so obsessed by the idea of having this drink?" And I would look back and recognize that I would go to events for, for work and be like, "I can't enjoy myself until I've had a few beers." And I just felt so much pressure, and this is one of the things why I've sort of distanced myself from the rugby community, 'cause so much of it is about how much can you drink. Let's get you as drunk as possible. And it's honestly been the best thing I've ever done. I'm a year and a half into it now. It doesn't even cross my mind. I've found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic, ones that are also really healthy. I found this one beer that is full of electrolytes, and it's, you know, the carbohydrates in it are long-lasting energy.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- THTom Holland
So, like, having a beer is now actually, like, a really healthy thing. I'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive about it. I've never run into that scenario where my friends are like, "Oh, go on. Just have a beer. Like, you're fine." They've always sort of really supported me, and I don't wanna be that person that's saying to people, "You should get sober. You should get sober." If I could encourage someone to drink less, then that's great, but I, I don't wanna start getting into the world of-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- THTom Holland
... you need to stop drinking because I just... It's, it's not for me to say. I went on my own little journey. I'm really enjoying it. I'm delighted that my mum's almo- has also given up. She's loving it, and it's been amazing.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
I can't believe the difference that I feel from not drinking.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
I feel amazing.
- JSJay Shetty
That's amazing, man. I love hearing that.
- 47:45 – 49:05
What Sobriety Gave Me
- JSJay Shetty
do if I wasn't drunk.
- THTom Holland
Sure.
- JSJay Shetty
So for me it was, for me it was more that. But yeah, I wonder for you, did you find that it's... there's a really fine line between, like, "Oh, I know I can drink a lot," and then all of a sudden you're kind of addic- not addicted beyond that journey. Yeah.
- THTom Holland
No, addicted, mate. Like, I'm happy to say, like-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- THTom Holland
... I was definitely addicted to alcohol. Not shying away from that at all. I think anyone that wakes up and has a... not wakes up. Anyone that has a beer every day has probably got a little bit of a problem. But yeah, you're right. I, I would drink and drink and drink and drink, and then you would just reach that moment where you're like, "Wow, I shouldn't have had that last beer."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
And you wake up the next day, and you have a terrible headache, and you're suffering. I, I bought one of those rings that will tell you about your sleep.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, Oura Ring.
- THTom Holland
Yeah. And it was amazing-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, love those. Yeah
- THTom Holland
... 'cause I couldn't sleep. I was like, "Why can't I sleep? I'm working 14 hours a day. I'm doing two hours in the gym. I'm eating really healthily, and I can't sleep. What's wrong with me?" I bought this ring, and it was booze. It just... it was completely affecting my sleep, and since I've given it up, I can sleep anywhere.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- THTom Holland
You know? It's also interesting as well, going on nights out And having a great time as the sober person, and then getting to that point in the night where people start, you know, spitting in your ear, and everyone's, "I love you, man. I love you so much." And you're like, "Yeah, brilliant. I love you, too. I'll see you tomorrow. I'm going to bed."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- THTom Holland
But I love being that person now.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- THTom Holland
I love seeing my friends on the golf course at 8:00 AM in the morning, feeling fresh and ready to go.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- THTom Holland
And they're sort of crawling out their car and-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- THTom Holland
So
- 49:05 – 53:55
Three Pillars of Friendship
- THTom Holland
yeah, so I, I, I'm over the moon-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- THTom Holland
... to be sober. I love it.
- MRMel Robbins
There are three pillars of adult friendship based on research that are also gonna help you understand that when people come and go in your life, 99% of the time it's not personal, and you actually haven't lost them as a friend.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
One of the three pillars is missing. So the three things that need to be required to have a friendship happen are the same three things that were around all the time when you were a kid. Number one, proximity. Proximity matters tremendously. Proximity means who are you actually physically next to. In fact, they've done research, Jay. If you and I were in a dorm and we lived across the hall, I don't, I don't remember the percentages exactly, but it's like 90% chance we're gonna be friends.
- JSJay Shetty
Interesting.
- MRMel Robbins
The poor person at the end of the hallway, 10% chance that we're gonna be friends with them, because of proximity. Even a matter of 50 feet makes a difference. And so when you were little, you were in proximity to people your age all the time.
- JSJay Shetty
All day.
- MRMel Robbins
Exactly. The research also shows that to have, as an adult, a kind of casual friend, you need to spend approximately 70 hours with somebody.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
To have a close friend, 200 hours.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
So when you're an adult, that creates a big problem, because who are you spending all your time with once you're 20? The American Time Study shows that it's with people you work with. So why aren't we best friends with people at work? Because you have proximity and you're spending a lot of time together, but here's the thing. Timing.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
When you were little, you were in the same timing of life with everybody.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
When you hit your 20s and it's now individual, everybody's on different timelines. Some of your friends are getting married, some are going to graduate school, some are now pursuing jobs. Other people are moving out of the city, into the city. Everybody's timing is now different, and this also explains why you're almost never best friends with people at work, because the timing is off. You're sitting next to people that are in very different times of their life. You may like them a lot and you may be friends, but you never spend time outside of work because they're at home with their family and you're going out with your buddies your age on the weekends. And then that brings me to the third thing that needs to be present for a friendship to truly click, and that's energy.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And the thing about energy is it changes, and you can have fantastic energy with somebody and then if you decide you're not drinking anymore, the energy's off.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
If you decide to get really focused on fitness, the energy's off. If you have very different political beliefs, the energy's off. It's not personal.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
It's one of these three pillars, and it has helped me so profoundly, Jay, to realize that people come and go, and it's a beautiful thing, and you should let them.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And you should really, if you have a friendship that starts to dissipate, right? Ask yourself, before you blame them or you blame you, are any one of these three pillars missing? Are we not near each other anymore? Is the timing of our lives off? Is there just something about the energy that hasn't clicked? Because you can't force those things, but what I've found is that when you recognize that those are really important factors to your connection to someone else, that if a friendship starts to fade, for me it's so easy to say let them, and I don't wish anybody bad. I literally wish people well. Because the other thing that I've learned, and, you know, being 56, I've had a lot of friends come and go in different phases of my life, that you would be startled by how many people from your past that you no longer, quote, "consider friends" 'cause you haven't seen them in a very long time or things just got weird, if you actually called them, they'd pick up the phone.
- JSJay Shetty
They would.
- MRMel Robbins
If you texted them, the research shows that when you get a surprise text from somebody that you haven't heard from in a long time, the amount of joy that you feel. And so I want you to consider, if you're very lonely right now, that there's actually probably hundreds of people from your past that still consider you a friend.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And if you take the approach that I'm talking about, which is friendship is your responsibility, you need to go first. Let me create the friendship and the connection that I want. And you can start by literally taking a look through your past and thinking about people that you remember fondly and just sending them a text.
- 53:55 – 56:10
What Makes Someone a Great Partner
- MRMel Robbins
the timing or proximity or energy comes back around again.
- SPSpeaker
It took me a while to learn that, you know, there's no way we could be everything to each other.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
We have different interests, different goals. There was a stage in my marriage where I thought that's what a partner was supposed to be.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
You know? You should call me all the time. We should talk all the time. We should be each other's best friends all the time. Our marriage got better when I got better about that, because I think he already had that independence, this, this notion of I love you.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
I don't, even if I don't talk to you today, that to me is like, I don't need that. I felt like I needed more of that.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
But as I got older, right, got more mature, more clear about my own goals, I realized that I, you know He can't be responsible for my happiness.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
I have to be responsible for that. I have to define it for myself, I have to learn how to achieve it. My husband is definitely a part of that-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... but he is not the-- He c- I cannot put him in the center of my happiness.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
That freed me up to let him be him and let me be me. So I have friends who give me things that my husband doesn't give me. I have girlfriends who have-- One distinction-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
... that we have is, like, I'm a talker.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
All right? When I sit down with my girlfriends, we can talk for days.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
I mean literally for days. We can take a break for lunch, but we can talk.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
You know? My husband's not... He, he can talk, but he, he will come by a friendship session. You know, nine o'clock in the morning, I have a friend staying with me, and he's like, "What are y'all talking about?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
It's like, "Well, we're just now getting into our kids."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
"And we're gonna talk about each one of them separately-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
... for, like, an hour." Right?
- 56:10 – 57:37
The Relationship Mistake Most People Make
- SPSpeaker
12 more hours to go."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Right? [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And, and that's so beautiful to hear because I think, especially when we're young, we think that that person has to be all of that and, and from the beginning and-- or they'll become it. There's the other fallacy of, like, "Oh, well, I know who they could be-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and who they could become." How much of that did you feel you had to disconnect and detach from of, like, what this person could be? To you, obviously, not in the world, but...
- SPSpeaker
I had to disconnect from all of those beliefs, right? Um, and every couple is different, I've found. I, I know people who are each other's best friends. They like to travel together. They walk and hold hands.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And I, I have friends who are in relationships where they talk, like, every hour.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
I'm like, "Are you talking to him again?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
"Nothing changed." You know, it's up to the individuals-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... to define that for themselves, um-
- JSJay Shetty
That's the key word, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... for Barack and I. And I think you should be clear about that.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Because the other thing is that when we hold on internally to an expectation of the other person, we don't even share it. So now we're mad that you haven't even-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
... fulfilled something I never even told you I needed.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
You know? That takes time-
- JSJay Shetty
Yes
- SPSpeaker
... and it takes work, which is why marriage is hard.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
Right? Because you'll have the tendency to live in your head and live out the image of what you want them to be, and you haven't even communicated that to them.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
That's just one little fraction of the challenge of marriage-
- JSJay Shetty
Yes
- 57:37 – 1:01:34
What is Your Conflict Style?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
It takes time.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
But it's worth it.
- JSJay Shetty
Absolutely. Yeah, I think those, those check-ins are the hardest. I, I know that there's, there's four check-ins that I try and keep a good habit around with my wife that have really helped me. One of them is every day I'll ask her, like, "What was your highlight today?" or, "What did you learn today?" Something, something-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... positive, something like, "What's, what's the best thing that happened to you today? I wanna know."
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Because it's so easy for us to get so busy in our days, not see each other all day, not speak all day, and days can go by like that too because we're also traveling. Then every week I try and ask her, like, "How can I-- What can I help you with this week?" Like, is there something coming up that I just need to be aware of?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
Sometimes it's just information.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And that gives me an opportunity to also tell her, "I've got a really stressful week coming up."
- SPSpeaker
Right, right.
- JSJay Shetty
"Just know that I may not be at my best this week. I'm just letting you know." Uh, every month I'm, you know, checking in with her and trying to just say to her, like, uh, "What's, what's your big focus for this month?"
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, you know, "What, what's the big thing that you're working on?" Then every year is easy, like, you know, "What's your goal this year or resolution?" or whatever. And I find that those questions, and sometimes every quarter I'll ask a question which is the hardest one, but it's like, "Is this relationship going in the direction you want it to?"
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
"And if it isn't, what are you willing to do, and what am I willing to do to get it back on track?"
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Because I find so often, like, if you just don't talk about that-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... deep intimacy, you're just going on different tracks, and that's why five years later you're like, "Well, I don't know you anymore."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Um, and so I find that, like, staying in close contact... But one of the biggest things I read, which I wanted to try with you, is, uh, The Gottman Institute talked about how the number one skill or habit in relationships, and they looked at couples who'd stayed together the longest, and they found it wasn't date nights.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
It wasn't vacations. It wasn't any of this stuff. It was learning how to fight.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, for sure.
- JSJay Shetty
It was-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- 1:01:34 – 1:06:38
The Conversation Every Couple Needs to Have
- SPSpeaker
our sorting through learning how to argue.
- JSJay Shetty
If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough. Simple communication is not a sign of a lack of intelligence. It's a sign of deep understanding. As a speaker, a leader, a communicator, a manager, whatever you may be, if you're able to be concise, simple, it will be so much more powerful. Remember this, confusion creates resistance. Clarity creates cooperation. If someone doesn't understand you, they can't support you. Good communicators ask if they were understood. Bad communicators assume they were. Good communicators aim for understanding. Bad communicators aim to be right. Notice the difference. Principle three, people don't argue with facts, they argue with threat. Here's a powerful insight. Most disagreements are not about facts. They're about identity and safety. When people feel embarrassed, judged, or blamed, their brain stops listening. Let me say that again. When people feel embarrassed, judged, or blamed, their brain stops listening. How many times have you stopped listening when you felt that way? Now think about all the times you spoke that way and thought it would affect someone. I know I've made that mistake. I constantly feel that if someone really understands what they got wrong, or they were really made clear on the mistake they made, that that would make them listen more. But actually, we're not listening to that because it's not factual. It feels like opinion. It feels personal. It feels like an attack. Researching conflict psychology shows that once someone feels threatened, they prioritize self-protection over understanding. This is actually mind-blowing. You think about all the interactions you have, home or work. When you make someone feel attacked, they're only thinking about protecting themselves. Effective communicators lower threat first. At work, "Here's what I'm seeing. Tell me if I'm missing something." At home, "This matters to me, and I want to understand your side." These phrases do one thing. They create safety. Remember this, people don't need to feel corrected. They need to feel considered. Once safety is present, truth can land. Before sharing feedback, before saying something that's hard to hear, before you're about to have a difficult conversation, first, set safety. Second, make sure that anything you're saying is coming with the intention of safety, and choose your words that really align with that energy because you wanna have an impact. A lot of people say, "Well, I should just be able to say what I want, and people should understand." Well, if that's what you want, then that isn't a relationship based on care. It's not a b- relationship based on love. It's not a relationship based on connection. It's a relationship based on you wanting people to understand you, but not taking the moment to understand them. I think this can all change for us. It can all change when we prioritize principle four, questions change everything. One of the most powerful communication tools is curiosity. Research from negotiation psychology shows that asking open-ended questions reduces defensiveness and increases cooperation. Statements trigger resistance. Questions invite collaboration. Instead of, "You're not listening," ask, "Can you tell me what you heard from what I just said?" Instead of, "This isn't working," ask, "What do you think would make this work better?" Questions shift the dynamic from opposition to partnership. Here's a phrase that instantly deescalates tension, "Help me understand." That sentence creates space where conflict used to be. There are so many challenges with the growth of AI. There are so many risks that it presents. But one of the things that I'm grateful it has done is that it has brought humans back to asking better questions. We grew up at a time when answers were everything. Now we know answers are everywhere, and all of a sudden, questions and prompts are the key to our intelligence. The better you are at asking questions, the better results you'll actually get from AI. So that's a great way for us to test whether we know how to ask good questions, whether our questioning and curiosity ability is actually improving. That's the goal. If you can do that, you will actually lead your team, guide people, move people
- 1:06:38 – 1:10:55
What Manifestation Really Means
- JSJay Shetty
in a much stronger way. Manifestation is clarity about what you want and what it takes. Manifestation is writing it down and then building it step by step. Manifestation is persistence when motivation fades. Manifestation is aligning your choices with your values Not just your wishes. If you just make it about your wishes, if you just make it about what you're writing, if you don't ever make it about the how, right? People say start with why. Really important. You should know why you're doing what you're doing. You should know what you wanna build. But if you don't know how you're gonna get there, it's almost the hardest thing, right? If you don't know how you're gonna get to the party on a Saturday night, if you don't know how you're gonna get to your vacation destination, if you don't know how you're gonna build that company, it becomes a lot harder. Spend more time figuring out the how, and you'll know that you're making momentum. You'll know you're making progress. You'll know you're moving in the right direction. See, the thing is, I really want you to get there. I really want you to experience the joy of building something you love. I don't just want it to remain a dream in your mind and your heart space that never gets to see the light of day. Myth number four, the universe rewards wanting. If I want it badly enough, I'll get it. It does not work that way. Desire is fuel, but direction is the map. Without it, you spin in circles. Have you ever desperately wanted a job, relationship, or whatever it may be, but you had no strategy? Desire without direction is like stepping on the gas with no steering wheel. The reticular activating system, also known as RAS, filters what you notice. Define a goal and your brain literally starts spotting opportunities. For example, once you think of buying a red car, you see them everywhere. So here's the step. Each morning, write down three things you want to notice that day. Maybe new clients, learning opportunities, or ways to connect. Your RAS will tune in. This is so important. If you have a goal to write a book, start a podcast, build a company, ask yourself, what is it that you need? I was talking to a friend the other day, and I'd said to him how important it was for him to show up to networking events. I said, "If you're out at those events, you're gonna meet people, people are gonna see you, you're gonna get to connect with them." He was avoiding it for months and months and months. He finally went to one, and he was shocked at what it felt like to be front of mind. When you're present, you get to have the conversations you would never get to if you weren't there. So many of us avoid the actual action, even though in our mind we're wondering, why is this business not taking off? Why is it not starting off? Because we're not positioning ourselves in the places that we need to be. Remember, you don't see things as they are. You see them through your own fears and hopes. You don't see yourself as you are. You see the story you keep repeating about who you are. You don't see the future as it is. You see the version you believe is possible. So many of us have the wish, we have the want, we have the desire. We don't have the direction, we don't have the drive. And where does that drive come from? It comes from picking something that you really value. I mean, everyone would wanna be financially free. Everyone would want abundance. Those are things we all want. But what does that look like for you? How does that manifest for you? When I say that, what I mean is, how do you envision that? How is it unique to you, and how are you gonna get there that's unique to you? If you connected with today's episode, check out my raw and honest talk with the one and only Cardi B. She opens up about overcoming depression and how she balanced rising to fame and creating a life for her children.
- SPSpeaker
But you can't tell me I'm a, I, I'm a bad mom. I'm a great mom. If I'm good at something, it's being a mom
Episode duration: 1:10:55
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Transcript of episode 9SLWaBIWYv4
