6 LIFE-CHANGING lessons I've learned from EXTRAORDINARY Guests I Wish I knew Sooner…

Jay Shetty 0:00 Reaching 5 million subscribers on YouTube is a milestone I could never have imagined when On Purpose first began. Over the years, I've had the honor of sitting with some of the most extraordinary people in the world: artists, world leaders, athletes, visionaries, and experts. These conversations have offered us glimpses into how greatness is built, how vulnerability becomes strength, and how love and resilience shape our lives. I'm truly grateful for how far we've come and it's all because of you. It's also just the beginning. So today, we're celebrating our community and this milestone by revisiting some of the most significant moments from incredible guests along the way.

Benny Blanco 0:45 The number one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 0:48 Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty.

Benny Blanco 0:52 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 0:54 I remember this one really well because I was in France. I flew to London to take a flight to the US, and then flew back to London to interview Tom, all within 24 hours. When I spoke with Tom Holland, he shared something deeply personal, his decision to quit drinking. In a world that celebrates alcohol, he stepped away to protect his mental and emotional health, and he's not alone. Surveys show more young people are choosing sobriety than ever before, with many saying they feel healthier and more present. Here's Tom on how that choice changed his life.

Jay Shetty 1:31 One of the things that you mentioned recently was that you gave up drinking about a year and a half ago.

Tom Holland 1:36 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:36 And you said it was the hardest thing you ever did.

Tom Holland 1:39 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:39 And I wanted to know, what was so hard about it for you? Why was it so hard?

Tom Holland 1:44 It's interesting. I, I, I didn't one day wake up and say, "I'm giving up drinking." I just, like many Brits, had had a very, very boozy December. Christmas time, I was on vacation, I was drinking a lot, and I've always been able to drink a lot. I think I get my genes from my mum's side and that thing, like I can, I can drink. And I decided to just give up for January. I just wanted to do dry January, and all I could think about was having a drink. It's all I could think about. I, I was waking up thinking about it. I was checking the clock, when's it 12:00? And it just really scared me. I just was like, "Wow, maybe, maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing." So I sort of decided to punish myself and say, "I'll do February as well. I'll do two months off. If I can do two months off, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem." Two months go by, and I was still really struggling. I felt like I couldn't be social. I felt like I couldn't go to the pub and have a lime soda. I couldn't go out for dinner. I was really, really struggling. And I started to really worry that maybe I had an alcohol problem. Um, so I decided that I would wait until my birthday, which is June 1st. I said to myself, "If I can do six months without alcohol, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem." And by the time I had got to June 1st, I was the happiest I've ever been in my life. I could sleep better. I could handle problems better. Things that would go wrong on set that would normally set me off, I could take in my stride. I had so much, such better mental clarity. I felt healthier. I felt fitter. And I just sort of said to myself like, "Why, why am I enslaved to this drink? Why am I so obsessed by the idea of having this drink?" And I would look back and recognize that I would go to events for, for work and be like, "I can't enjoy myself until I've had a few beers." And I just felt so much pressure, and this is one of the things why I've sort of distanced myself from the rugby community, 'cause so much of it is about how much can you drink, let's get you as drunk as possible. And it's honestly been the best thing I've ever done. I'm a year and a half into it now. It doesn't even cross my mind. I've found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic, ones that are also really healthy. I found this one beer that is full of electrolytes and it's, you know, the carbohydrates in it are long-lasting energy.

Jay Shetty 4:08 [laughs]

Tom Holland 4:08 So like, having a beer is now actually like a really healthy thing. I'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive about it. I've never run into that scenario where my friends are like, "Oh, go on, just have a beer. Like, you're fine." They've always sort of really supported me. And I don't wanna be that person that's saying to people, "You should get sober. You should get sober." If I could encourage someone to drink less, then that's great, but I, I don't wanna start getting into the world of-

Jay Shetty 4:31 Yeah

Tom Holland 4:31 ... you need to stop drinking, because I just, it's, it's not for me to say. I went on my own little journey. I'm really enjoying it. I'm delighted that my mum's almo- has also given up. She's loving it, and it's been amazing.

Jay Shetty 4:42 Yeah.

Tom Holland 4:42 I can't believe the difference that I feel from not drinking.

Jay Shetty 4:45 Yeah.

Tom Holland 4:45 I feel amazing.

Jay Shetty 4:46 That's amazing, man. I love hearing that.

Tom Holland 4:47 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 4:47 And, and I love hearing that it's been great for you, right? I think that's-

Tom Holland 4:49 Yeah

Jay Shetty 4:50 ... that's the point. Not everything has to be like, "Look what I did. You can do it, too."

Tom Holland 4:52 Sure.

Jay Shetty 4:52 It's kind of like, "No, this is just what's been great for me." Do you think it was partly that attitude, for you at least in the beginning, where it's like, "Well, look, I can drink. I drink a lot. It comes from my mum genes and it doesn't affect me," and then all of a sudden you realize, well, wait a minute, it's more than that? Because I think there is that. Like, I was like that as a young man as well. Like, for me, it was, it was easy to drink. I-

Tom Holland 5:11 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 5:11 ... I didn't drink daily. For me, I drank a lot more socially.

Tom Holland 5:14 Sure.

Jay Shetty 5:14 And I loved playing drinking games with my mates.

Tom Holland 5:16 Yeah, absolutely.

Jay Shetty 5:17 And that, that was really what I enjoyed the most probably. And for me, when I quit, I could just quickly see how it just got me into doing things I would never do if I wasn't drunk.

Tom Holland 5:26 Sure.

Jay Shetty 5:26 So for me it was, for me it was more that. But yeah, I wonder for you, did you find that it's, there's a really fine line between like, "Oh, I know I can drink a lot," and then all of a sudden you're kind of addic- not addicted but you're on that journey?

Tom Holland 5:36 No, addicted, mate.

Jay Shetty 5:37 Yeah.

Tom Holland 5:37 Like I'm happy to say it.

Jay Shetty 5:38 Yeah.

Tom Holland 5:38 Like I was definitely addicted to alcohol. Not shying away from that at all. I think anyone that wakes up and has a... Not wakes up. Anyone that has a beer every day has probably got a little bit of a problem. But yeah, you're right. I, I would drink and drink and drink and drink, and then you would just reach that moment where you're like, "Wow, I shouldn't have had that last beer."

Jay Shetty 5:54 Yeah.

Tom Holland 5:54 And you wake up the next day and you have a terrible headache and you're suffering. I, I bought one of those rings that will tell you about your sleep.

Jay Shetty 6:00 Yeah, Oura Ring.

Tom Holland 6:01 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 6:02 Yeah.

Tom Holland 6:02 And it was amazing.

Jay Shetty 6:03 Love those, yeah.

Tom Holland 6:03 'Cause I couldn't sleep. I was like, "Why can't I sleep? I'm working 14 hours a day. I'm doing two hours in the gym. I'm eating really healthily and I can't sleep. What's wrong with me?" I bought this ring and it was booze.It just, it was completely affecting my sleep, and since I've given it up, I can sleep anywhere.

Jay Shetty 6:18 [laughs]

Tom Holland 6:18 You know? It's also interesting as well, going on nights out and having a great time as the sober person, and then getting to that point in the night where people start, you know, spitting in your ear, and everyone's, "I love you, man. I love you so much." And you're like, "Yeah, brilliant. I love you, too. I'll see you tomorrow. I'm going to bed."

Jay Shetty 6:34 [laughs]

Tom Holland 6:34 Like, I love being that person now.

Jay Shetty 6:36 Yeah, yeah.

Tom Holland 6:37 I love seeing my friends on the golf course at 8:00 AM in the morning, feeling fresh and ready to go.

Jay Shetty 6:42 Yeah.

Tom Holland 6:42 And they're sort of crawling out their car.

Jay Shetty 6:44 [laughs]

Tom Holland 6:45 And so yeah, so I, I, I'm over the moon-

Jay Shetty 6:48 Yeah

Tom Holland 6:48 ... to be sober. I love it.

Jay Shetty 6:49 Yeah. For anyone who is listening right now and is going, "Tom, I love that for you. I want to do it, too." Like, they're listening, going, "I'm having too much every day. I can notice some of those things, but I'm just stuck." And it's hard because we know that addiction's that way. We know that this is heavy. It's not easy. But if someone is watching, going, "Tom, tell me. Like, what, what did you do to even get started? How did you have that courage to say, 'I'm gonna do January. I'm gonna stick at it.'"

Tom Holland 7:12 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 7:12 Were there any moments where you actually fell back and then had to get back on the horse again? Like, just walk us through that a little bit more for anyone who is watching, going, "Tom, mate, I, I wanna be in your position in, like, six months."

Tom Holland 7:22 I didn't fall back on it. I have done in the past. Like, I've had periods of my life where I'd given up drinking and then gone back to drinking. Um, but this time, I don't know, it was just different. I really worked to sort of change my mindset. I really asked myself, like, "Why do you drink? Why are you drinking?" And a lot of the time, my answer would be, "To feel more comfortable in a social environment."

Jay Shetty 7:46 Yeah.

Tom Holland 7:47 And I just put myself in those environments, and just would force myself to be there. I'd force myself to hang out and, and go to a club or go to a bar or go to a dinner. And-

Jay Shetty 7:56 Yeah, so you weren't avoiding those places.

Tom Holland 7:58 I was at the beginning because I didn't feel like I could go and not have a drink-

Jay Shetty 8:02 Mm

Tom Holland 8:02 ... because of the stress of it. But then after a while I sort of was like, "Mate, you gotta pull your socks up here, and you can't just live in your house all the time. You've gotta go out and enjoy yourself. And, and if you're only enjoying yourself because you're drinking, then you really do have a problem." But I just changed my mindset. I just, I found really good replacements, things that I could sort of attribute to having a beer. I often found with me, most of it is just the ritual of cracking something open and sharing it with friends and drinking it. Whether it's sparkling water or a beer, I now can't... I don't associate, like, I don't see a difference.

Jay Shetty 8:35 Yeah.

Tom Holland 8:36 But I think it's different for everyone.

Jay Shetty 8:37 Yeah.

Tom Holland 8:37 I had a great support system. Jack is one of my best mates, and we travel all over the world. He doesn't drink, and doing it with him was, was a really helpful experience for me. My brother is always on the road with me. He was very supportive. And yeah, I just really set my mind to it.

Jay Shetty 8:51 Yeah.

Tom Holland 8:51 I was like, "I really wanna do this. I wanna prove to myself I can do it."

Jay Shetty 8:53 Yeah.

Tom Holland 8:54 And then once I'd felt the health benefits and started really feeling like my full self-

Jay Shetty 8:59 Yeah

Tom Holland 8:59 ... I was like, "Oh my God. This is, this is the best." But do you not drink?

Jay Shetty 9:02 I haven't drank for 17 years.

Tom Holland 9:04 No way.

Jay Shetty 9:05 Yeah.

Tom Holland 9:05 Congratulations.

Jay Shetty 9:05 I feel amazing.

Tom Holland 9:06 That's amazing.

Jay Shetty 9:06 Yeah, I feel amazing. Yeah. It was j- it's incredible.

Tom Holland 9:09 Wow.

Jay Shetty 9:09 It's like one of the best feelings in the world, and it's... My, my biggest, like, worry when I was about to quit was like, how am I gonna hang out with my mates?

Tom Holland 9:15 That was my biggest worry.

Jay Shetty 9:16 Like, that was my biggest worry.

Tom Holland 9:17 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:17 I was like, my mates knew me as the guy who was, like, first to the game.

Tom Holland 9:20 Sure.

Jay Shetty 9:20 Last to get out. Like-

Tom Holland 9:21 That was me back then. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 9:22 You know, the clown when I got drunk.

Tom Holland 9:24 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:24 Like, life of the party, kinda like that kinda guy. And then all of a sudden I, I decided I wasn't gonna drink anymore. I was like, "Crap, how am I gonna fit in?" And then I remember I went into the corporate world for a bit, and I didn't drink. And I was like, "God, am I gonna miss out on, like, opportunities and networking?"

Tom Holland 9:37 Sure.

Jay Shetty 9:37 Like, you know, all the guys afterwards are like, "Going to get drinks." And I'm like, "I'll come, but I'll have a water or I'll have a soda," or whatever it is.

Tom Holland 9:43 Sure.

Jay Shetty 9:44 And what was really interesting for me is not relying on drinking made me rely on qualities and skills I had-

Tom Holland 9:53 Sure

Jay Shetty 9:53 ... that were actually better. [laughs]

Tom Holland 9:55 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:55 So now that I couldn't drink as an excuse to hang with the lads, I was bringing out parts of my personality that I probably would've just hidden away or ignored.

Tom Holland 10:03 Suppressed.

Jay Shetty 10:03 Yeah, suppressed.

Tom Holland 10:04 Totally.

Jay Shetty 10:04 And all of a sudden you were actually getting respected and liked for who you were-

Tom Holland 10:08 Right

Jay Shetty 10:08 ... rather than the person who you were when you were drunk.

Tom Holland 10:10 Sure.

Jay Shetty 10:10 And, and actually that worked in the workplace, and there was no one at the workplace going, "Oh, Jay doesn't drink, so he's not getting promoted."

Tom Holland 10:15 Right.

Jay Shetty 10:15 It wasn't like that. People were like, "Oh, yeah, I really like hanging out with Jay," or, "He's, he's a really good guy," or whatever it may be. And I was still getting the same opportunities, and-

Tom Holland 10:22 Yeah

Jay Shetty 10:22 ... I was still getting promoted at work and whatever it was. And I think that's what I'd like to remind people, that don't feel like your career or your work is gonna suffer. Even for you, like, you've... I'm sure as a, you know, with your career path, you have to be at parties, you have to be at events.

Tom Holland 10:37 Of course.

Jay Shetty 10:37 And the fact that you're able to do that now without having alcohol, and you d- it doesn't sound like it's negatively impacting your career. If anything, it's the opposite.

Tom Holland 10:45 Mate, I honestly cannot believe, like, the amount of times I've sat down with an actor that I've really admired or sat down with a producer or a director and been like, "Oh, you know what? I don't drink anymore." And they go, "Oh, I don't drink. 10 years."

Jay Shetty 10:55 Yeah.

Tom Holland 10:55 And you're like, oh my God. And I've had so many insightful conversations with people like yourself where you've heard their story, their reason for giving up, and y- there is a wonderful community of people, and I love it. I love being a part of that community. I'm really proud to be a part of it. I hope that, you know, I can meet other people and chat to them about it because it's really nice.

Jay Shetty 11:15 Yeah. [laughs]

Tom Holland 11:15 It's lovely to be like, "Let's go get a lime soda together."

Jay Shetty 11:17 [laughs]

Tom Holland 11:17 You know?

Jay Shetty 11:18 Yeah. Let's get a juice.

Tom Holland 11:19 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 11:19 Or let's get a smoothie. [laughs]

Tom Holland 11:20 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 11:21 Yeah, no, it, it is true. It is true.

Jay Shetty 11:23 And it's really interesting because they... I can't remember. I, I'm trying to remember. There was this blog that came out years ago. I can't even remember it now. And there was this girl on Instagram who was getting a lot of likes and a lot of comments and a lot of attention. And one day she just disappeared. Like, she stopped posting. And everyone was just like, all the comments were like, "Where are you? What happened? Are you okay?" Like, "What happened to you?" Uh, you know, everyone was frantic trying to figure out what happened to her because they loved her, they were following her, and all the rest of it. And what they didn't know is that it was built by a team that was trying to show that what people didn't notice is that in every picture she posted, she was drinking. And it was a made up... It was almost like original AI-

Tom Holland 12:04 Wow

Jay Shetty 12:05 ... that was made up to prove the point that you can love someone, and you can think you're really close to them, and you, you can think their lifestyle looks amazing, but actually they've got a drink in every picture they post. And you didn't realize they had an alcohol problem. So there was no real person who died, but the point was that this, your friends could be struggling even when they're posting these beautiful lifestyle pictures, but are you aware?

Tom Holland 12:24 Wow.

Jay Shetty 12:25 And are you conscious of how much it affects you? And I can't, can't remember who built that page.

Tom Holland 12:28 Well, that, that... I, I think that's one of the problems with alcohol, is that-If you came out with alcohol right now, if alcohol wasn't a thing, and you're like, "I've invented this drink that is gonna make you, like, either really happy or really aggressive or really stupid, and we're gonna just sell it to the masses," people would be like-

Jay Shetty 12:46 [laughs]

Tom Holland 12:46 ... "Nah, mate, keep your funky juice. Like, we don't want that."

Jay Shetty 12:48 Yeah.

Tom Holland 12:48 "That sounds terrible." And it's one of those things, 'cause it is so socially acceptable that the addiction side of it, the bad sides of it really do fly under the radar.

Jay Shetty 12:56 Yeah.

Tom Holland 12:57 And that's really interesting. I'll tell you something I do love about being a non-drinker. I love being the designated driver.

Jay Shetty 13:02 Yeah. [laughs]

Tom Holland 13:03 I love being that person that makes sure that everyone gets home. I don't know, I just-

Jay Shetty 13:08 Yeah

Tom Holland 13:08 ... I like being a dependable person. I, I think I'm quite dependable.

Jay Shetty 13:11 Yeah.

Tom Holland 13:11 And I really like that, that, um, thing. And I saw this crazy YouTube video once, this was years ago, of a guy that went to a bar, he got drunk, and he drove home, and he crashed his car. And I don't know if this is real, it could've been fake, but it's really impactful. Basically, what his friend had done was set up the room as if he had been in a coma for, like, 10 years, and his friend wakes up hours after the crash, and his friend is there, and he had all, like, old makeup on to make him look older, and now I'm thinking about it, there's no way this could've been real-

Jay Shetty 13:46 [laughs]

Tom Holland 13:46 ... because how would they have been able to pull that off?

Jay Shetty 13:48 [laughs]

Tom Holland 13:49 But he basically is saying to him, like, "You've been asleep for 10 years. Everyone's missed you. Like, we can't believe you're awake. This is amazing." And it shows, like, how a stupid decision like driving drunk can-

Jay Shetty 13:59 Yeah

Tom Holland 13:59 ... affect the future of your life.

Jay Shetty 14:00 Yeah.

Tom Holland 14:01 So I do love being the designated driver.

Jay Shetty 14:03 Yeah. [laughs]

Tom Holland 14:03 That is something I enjoy. Seeing my friends have a good time, being like, "Don't worry, Tom will take you home."

Jay Shetty 14:07 Yeah. [laughs]

Tom Holland 14:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:08 I, I, I used to love being the designated driver un- until I realized that an ex-girlfriend just had me do that because [laughs] I was the one who didn't drink.

Tom Holland 14:14 Yeah, yeah, right.

Jay Shetty 14:15 So that, that wasn't a fun designated driver job.

Tom Holland 14:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:16 But I've always been that guy since... Because, so I, I lived as a monk for three years.

Tom Holland 14:21 Yeah, amazing.

Jay Shetty 14:22 And, uh, when I came back after that, obviously I never went back to drinking alcohol and everything, and so... But I went back into the workplace, and I remember everyone would always open up to me and give me advice, but it's what you're saying. When someone was drunk, they'd tell me their whole life story.

Tom Holland 14:34 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:35 Next day they'd wake up and go, "Jay, you don't actually remember what I said, right?" I'm like, "I remember everything."

Tom Holland 14:38 Everything.

Jay Shetty 14:38 They're like, "Please don't tell anyone." [laughs]

Tom Holland 14:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:40 You know? And I loved, I loved that part where I was like I was able to be there for people.

Tom Holland 14:43 Totally.

Jay Shetty 14:44 Just hear their stories.

Tom Holland 14:45 100%.

Jay Shetty 14:46 And someone that had context the next day, 'cause if they told someone else who was drunk, you'd both not remember, then it'd be gone. No, I, I think the benefits that you've just pointed out, good sleep, good health-

Tom Holland 14:55 Yeah

Jay Shetty 14:55 ... great mental clarity-

Tom Holland 14:57 Totally

Jay Shetty 14:57 ... they, they're huge. But there's a couple of things I wanna point out for everyone who's listening, just as takeaways, 'cause Tom makes it so seamless when you're talking about it. It's really beautiful as well. But one of the things you mentioned was finding alternatives.

Tom Holland 15:09 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 15:09 And during my monk life, we always talked about how there was, there was something that we called the higher taste, and it was saying you can never give up a lower taste unless you had a higher taste.

Tom Holland 15:17 Sure.

Jay Shetty 15:17 And so there has to be a switch. There has to be a replacement.

Tom Holland 15:19 Has to be a replacement, 100%.

Jay Shetty 15:20 And so the fact that you found alternatives, I think that's half the battle.

Tom Holland 15:23 Sure.

Jay Shetty 15:23 Because most of us are trying to take something out of our lives, and then you're just trying to fill it.

Tom Holland 15:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 15:28 And then you have to go back to what you had before because you're not finding a replacement. So that was beautiful. And the second thing you said, which I loved, which was having this conversation and dialogue with other people, someone who's one year ahead of you, someone who's 10 years ahead-

Tom Holland 15:40 Sure

Jay Shetty 15:40 ... someone who's 20 years ahead, who's gone through that process, and they're open and honest and vulnerable about, "You know what? I did have a weak moment," or, "You know what? This was really tough for me." And I think having those communities where you can talk about these things makes a massive difference. So if anyone's struggling, I hope that those two things can kind of, you know, give you the support you need. Tom's honesty reminds us of a key takeaway, that strength doesn't come from fitting in, but from making the choices that protect your peace. Whether it's alcohol, overworking, or any habit that no longer serves you, sometimes the bravest thing we can do is to let it go. One of the most inspiring conversations I've ever had, and that I'm deeply grateful for, was with the legendary late Kobe Bryant. I got to interview Kobe Bryant just a few months before his tragic passing with his daughter. Kobe described his mindset for excellence, what he often called the Mamba Mentality. It wasn't about talent alone, it was about obsession, discipline, and showing up every single day. Psychologists studying mastery of skills have found that consistent, deliberate practice is the strongest predictor of peak performance. Talent is valuable, but without consistency, something Kobe embodied in every area of his life, it's rarely enough. Let's take

Jay Shetty 16:59 a look. How, how have you been able to, in your life, see past the cloud of emotion to actually execute on things? Because I think what we were speaking about earlier, this challenge that young people have today, everyone has today, of just so much information, so much cloud of emotion, so many feelings, so much childhood baggage that you're bringing. Like, how have you always cut through that and executed on that?

Kobe Bryant 17:21 You know, I, what I try to do is just try to be still.

Jay Shetty 17:24 Mm.

Kobe Bryant 17:24 And understand that things come and go, emotions come and go. The important thing is to accept them all, to embrace them all, and then you can choose to do with them what you want versus being controlled by emotion. You know, a lot of times I've seen players, even myself m- you know, when I was younger, being consumed by a particular fear, um, and to the point where you're saying, "Okay, nah, it's, it's not good to feel fear. I shouldn't be nervous in this situation. Like, nah." And it does nothing but grow versus stepping back and saying, "Yeah, I, I am nervous about the situation. Yeah, I am fearful about the situation, but what am I afraid of?" And then you kind of unpack it.

Jay Shetty 18:05 Mm.

Kobe Bryant 18:05 And then it gives you abil- ability to look at it for really what it is, which is nothing more than your imagination [laughs] running its course, you know?

Jay Shetty 18:13 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love that, 'cause what you're saying is that when you're dealing with something, it's almost like, "How can I get to the root of it?"

Kobe Bryant 18:18 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 18:18 Because sometimes what we're dealing with, like you're saying, it's an imagination, an illusion. It's not really-

Kobe Bryant 18:23 It's not, it's not really a thing.

Jay Shetty 18:24 Yeah

Kobe Bryant 18:24 You know? Like, y- you think about game-winning shots and, or game-winning free throws, and people go to the free throw line and they're nervous about it. Well, what are you really nervous about? If you unpack that, okay, you, you're nervous that you're gonna miss the shot. All right, so you miss the shot, then what happens? People are gonna be embarrassed. You're gonna be embarrassed because thousands of people, millions of people see you miss the shot, all right? And then what? People are gonna talk bad about you.Okay. Right? And so you look at it and you go, are those things even important? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 18:50 [laughs]

Kobe Bryant 18:50 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 18:51 Yeah.

Kobe Bryant 18:51 If that, if that is my fear, like, what, what is... You're worried about letting your teammates down? Okay, have you let them down before? Well, I'm sure in practice and things of that nature, right? They're still there.

Jay Shetty 19:00 Yeah.

Kobe Bryant 19:00 You know? And so when you're able to unpack it, you kinda look at it for what it is, which is really nothing.

Jay Shetty 19:04 Yeah. I love that, breaking it down. I think that's so important. I think everyone who's listening or watching right now, next time you're facing a fear, next time you're going against something, do that. Like-

Kobe Bryant 19:12 Yeah

Jay Shetty 19:12 ... literally unpack it. Don't just settle for your first answer, because the first answer's rarely the right one.

Kobe Bryant 19:17 Yeah, don't hide from it, you know? You gotta be able to look at it and, you know, and, and, and deal with it head-on.

Jay Shetty 19:24 Mm.

Kobe Bryant 19:25 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:25 Yeah. I love that, man.

Jay Shetty 19:26 And, and you talk about that, because you talk about, you know, when you talk about missing, uh, five throws and you talk about, uh, getting over yourself.

Kobe Bryant 19:33 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:33 Right?

Kobe Bryant 19:34 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:34 Like, getting over yourself. How did you get that mentality of just being like, "I need to get over this. Like, I need to get over myself"?

Kobe Bryant 19:39 You know, trial and error.

Jay Shetty 19:41 Mm.

Kobe Bryant 19:41 You know, you grow up and you make game-winning shots and it's awesome. And you come back the next day and miss a game-winning shot, and it's misery. And then the next day comes and you're back playing again, and you understand that life has this cyclical nature where it's, you know, what you do on Monday is fantastic, but then Tuesday's a bad day. But guess what? There's Wednesday.

Jay Shetty 19:58 Yeah.

Kobe Bryant 19:58 So are we just supposed to live our lives like this the whole time?

Jay Shetty 20:01 [laughs]

Kobe Bryant 20:01 You know? Ex- versus just staying like this and understanding that it's really just a journey of evolution every day. It's just constant improvement, constant curiosity, constantly getting better. The results don't really matter. Uh, it's the figuring out that matters.

Jay Shetty 20:16 Yeah. And we all get obsessed about the results.

Kobe Bryant 20:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 20:19 Like, we get obsessed about, like, the output-

Kobe Bryant 20:21 Yeah

Jay Shetty 20:22 ... not the input of not figuring it out and not, like, changing things. What you said, trial and error, like the experimenting.

Kobe Bryant 20:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 20:27 We forget to do that.

Kobe Bryant 20:28 It's unfortunate, man. Like, I, I've seen a lot of players, um, especially now in, you know, in, in youth basketball dealing with that, um, you have players that are, like, bigger and faster and stronger and, you know, their coaches are just coaching them for results. You know, we're just gonna use your size that, 'cause you're bigger than every other 12-year-old out there, to dominate today. A- a- but they're not growing.

Jay Shetty 20:49 Mm.

Kobe Bryant 20:49 Right? And so they're just based on that result, but they're not focused on growing this young child [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:54 Yeah

Kobe Bryant 20:54 ... into becoming a better athlete and, and through that, teaching them how to become a more well-rounded person, and we're missing that.

Jay Shetty 21:02 Yeah. See,

Jay Shetty 21:03 what you've said there, just, it... I wanna ask you this, and I'm not saying, 'cause I... You know. Like, you know yourself best, and you know how you've got there, so I'm asking it from a place of humility, of learning. When I look at you, I'm like, you know, your superpower isn't just your work ethic. Your superpower isn't just, like, figuring things out. Your superpower is, like, you think strategically. Like, that's a very strategic thought of saying, "This person could be this in the future if they were developed-

Kobe Bryant 21:28 Right

Jay Shetty 21:28 ... as a whole individual-

Kobe Bryant 21:29 Right

Jay Shetty 21:29 ... rather than just, like, let's use them for the short term."

Kobe Bryant 21:31 Right.

Jay Shetty 21:32 And where did you develop that from, that ability to see beyond, to think deeper, to, to reflect deeper? Where did that come from?

Kobe Bryant 21:38 Mm, well, I, I had to do that because, you know, I grew up growing up in Italy. Um, when I first moved over there it was, you know, I didn't speak Italian. I didn't have any friends. You know, I had the game of basketball, and through sport and playing soccer, I was able to make friends and build connections, but it was a lot of time spent alone. And, and when I came back to the States, I wasn't the most athletic kid. You know, I was really scrawny, like, really, really skinny and had, like, major knee issues 'cause I was growing.

Jay Shetty 22:05 [laughs]

Kobe Bryant 22:05 So I was the dorky kid with high socks and big old knee pads.

Jay Shetty 22:09 It's fashionable now. [laughs]

Kobe Bryant 22:10 It's fashionable now. It wasn't then. It wasn't then. And, and so, um, I had to look long term, because in the here and now I couldn't compete with these kids. I mean, there was kids that were, like, 12 years old with beards.

Jay Shetty 22:22 Mm. [laughs]

Kobe Bryant 22:22 Like, I can't, I can't... What am I supposed to do with that?

Jay Shetty 22:25 [laughs]

Kobe Bryant 22:25 Like, they're, they're doing windmills and dunking backwards, and I'm happy to, like, tap the backboard, you know? So I had to look at it from a long term, 'cause I wasn't gonna give up on the game.

Jay Shetty 22:34 Right.

Kobe Bryant 22:34 So I had to say, "Okay, this year I'm gonna get better at that."

Jay Shetty 22:37 Mm.

Kobe Bryant 22:37 "Next year, this," and then so forth and so on. And then patiently I was able to catch them.

Jay Shetty 22:42 Yeah. Kobe taught us that greatness isn't an accident. It's built through discipline, consistency, and the willingness to go further than most are willing to go. His words and wisdom live on as a challenge to bring our best to whatever we love. You know, the end of the year always gets me thinking, "What's next? What's the next move?" Because this is the time to lay the foundation for everything that's coming in 2026. For us with Juni, Shopify has been that partner that makes it all possible. Shopify isn't just a platform, it's a partner for dreamers, doers, and creators. Whether you're starting small or thinking big, Shopify gives you the tools and the confidence to begin. When we started Juni, we wanted to build something meaningful,

Jay Shetty 23:28 and having a system that simplified the how kept us connected to the why. And what's really special is that Shopify grows with you. You can start with one idea, one spark, and before you know it, you're sharing that spark with people all over the world. From the design of your storefront to fulfilling orders, Shopify helps you create an experience that actually feels human. And the best part, you don't have to be a tech expert. Shopify meets you where you are with templates, tools, and even AI features like Shopify Sidekick to guide you, spark ideas, and help you keep things moving with clarity. It's time to stop thinking and start doing, and there is no better way to do that than with Shopify. Use our link shopify.com/j now to start getting serious about building your future. Take it from me, it is time to start taking that idea you've had for a while and put it into action. And with Shopify, you will have all the tools you need to ensure your idea becomes the best reality it can be. When Emma Watson called me to be on the show, I was thrilled. One insight in our sit-down, out of the many that she said, that stood out was her view on building relationships from wholeness, not need. In her younger years, she might have chosen from uncertainty, but now she seeks love from peace and self-knowledge. She also spoke about asking the hardest questions. Am I really happy?Am I aligned with my values? Questions that push us beyond appearances and towards truth. One of the hardest questions, you talked about asking, answer, asking yourself difficult questions, and I wanna ask you something about that, but one thing I've said to my wife is, "If you ever fall out of love with me, please tell me, because I don't want to live a day without love. I'm really confident about the fact that I'm worthy of love and that I wanna experience love in my life."

Emma Watson 25:16 Mm.

Jay Shetty 25:17 "If you ever fall out of love with me, just tell me. It's okay."

Emma Watson 25:20 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Jay Shetty 25:20 "Because I don't have the desire-

Emma Watson 25:23 Yeah

Jay Shetty 25:23 ... to stay somewhere for any other reason." And it sounds risky saying that, and extreme, but to me it's a greater risk to have spent 10 extra years with someone-

Emma Watson 25:32 Mm

Jay Shetty 25:32 ... and then they tell me, "I haven't really loved you for the last five, 10 years." And then I'm like, wait a minute, I've lived without love for 10 years of my life, and I don't want to be in that place because I've seen people go through that-

Emma Watson 25:43 Mm

Jay Shetty 25:43 ... and, and not be happy.

Emma Watson 25:44 Mm.

Jay Shetty 25:44 And so it does come with a humility and a-

Emma Watson 25:47 Yeah

Jay Shetty 25:48 ... openness to have very difficult conversations-

Emma Watson 25:52 Yeah

Jay Shetty 25:52 ... uh, and not to force something that, oh, it's been going go- great for 12 years. L- it has to. It should do. It, it must do. And it's like, well, maybe no. Like, yes, if it does, it's great-

Emma Watson 26:02 Mm

Jay Shetty 26:02 ... and it is right now-

Emma Watson 26:03 Mm

Jay Shetty 26:03 ... but why should right now be a prediction for how you feel in 15 years?

Emma Watson 26:08 Mm.

Jay Shetty 26:09 With everything else that's gonna change.

Emma Watson 26:11 I think if I knew I really couldn't meet the needs of someone and they couldn't meet my needs, if I really couldn't make them happy and they couldn't make me happy, like, forcing them to stay in that situation, just really that, like, makes love impossible, like, negates. So I, I totally get what you're saying, and my mom said this thing to me which was like,

Emma Watson 26:32 "You want to be with someone because you want them, not because you need them." And I think maybe another reason why I didn't get married younger is because I think maybe I would've married someone not knowing who I was, and I would've needed them, maybe not wanted them. And I think now I have a life that's whole and complete as it is, and I would be making a choice from a place of I just want you, and I don't need you, but I just want you.

Jay Shetty 27:08 Mm, I love that.

Emma Watson 27:08 And I don't, I don't think I was that woman five years ago.

Jay Shetty 27:12 Yeah, I love that. And, and, and there's so much, so much to be said for attracting from a place of peace-

Emma Watson 27:18 Mm

Jay Shetty 27:19 ... because you know what peace feels like.

Emma Watson 27:22 Mm.

Jay Shetty 27:23 And so then anyone or anything that comes-

Emma Watson 27:24 Mm

Jay Shetty 27:25 ... into your life-

Emma Watson 27:25 Mm, and what feeling satisfied feels like

Jay Shetty 27:27 ... satisfied is probably even a better word.

Emma Watson 27:29 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 27:29 And, and that feeling of I know what it feels like to be satisfied, and so I now know whether someone makes me more satisfied-

Emma Watson 27:36 Yes

Jay Shetty 27:37 ... or less.

Emma Watson 27:37 I know what my baseline is.

Jay Shetty 27:38 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Emma Watson 27:39 If you don't know what your baseline happy is, then how do you... You've got no idea-

Jay Shetty 27:42 Yeah

Emma Watson 27:43 ... of knowing what's going on at all.

Jay Shetty 27:45 Yeah. And that's not a feeling of being complete or having it all figured out.

Emma Watson 27:48 No.

Jay Shetty 27:48 It's like I know wh- satisfies a great word.

Emma Watson 27:50 Mm.

Jay Shetty 27:50 It's like I know what it feels like to be at, at peace with myself or satisfied with myself and-

Emma Watson 27:55 Mm

Jay Shetty 27:56 ... now everyone can show me-

Emma Watson 27:58 Yes

Jay Shetty 27:58 ... where that pendulum swings.

Emma Watson 28:00 Yes.

Jay Shetty 28:01 Um, one thing you said which I, which really resonated with me is that you've had to ask yourself so many hard questions to do the work, and I wanted to ask you, what-

Emma Watson 28:09 Mm

Jay Shetty 28:10 ... what's one of the hardest questions you've ever had to ask yourself, if you could recall?

Emma Watson 28:14 Well, the first one that comes to mind, and then maybe I'll dig for a deeper, different one, is, like, to have to admit to myself or ask myself the question of, like, you right now have the career and the life that, like, looks like the dream, but are you really happy, Emma? Are you really healthy? Are you really happy? Like, is this really [laughs] what you want? And to be at that point and, like, reali- and have to admit to myself that I wasn't and I didn't was one of the scariest things I've ever had to do because, you know, I basically had to ask myself on a daily basis, like, I felt like I was crazy, and walking away from something without knowing what you're walking towards-

Jay Shetty 29:03 Mm

Emma Watson 29:04 ... was not having the answers, but leaving something that was con- that the world considered to be such, of such high value, such a high value kind of moment in my [laughs] professional life and career, I think that was a real, sitting with that was a real moment of reckoning, of like, can you tell yourself the truth? Can you live with your truth? Can you accept the fact that for most other people your truth is pretty confusing and unpalatable? That was definitely a hard moment of sitting. More recently, because I've been being my own partner, asking myself, "Are you really living your values, the things that you preach? Are you actually aligned?" And actually looking at some spaces in my life where I was like, "Shit, no, not at all. I'm actually not doing what I talk about, and I need to, like, create

Emma Watson 30:08 some sort of urgency or a deadline for that so that I make sure that I'm a person of integrity." I purport to be someone that cares about the world and about the planet and sustainability and, you know, there are some things I was doing. Was it enough? By my own standards, not by anyone else's, just by my own, probably not. But what's nice is, is I actually have the time now to be like, "Okay, what are you gonna do [laughs] about it?"

Jay Shetty 30:35 [laughs]

Emma Watson 30:35 Like, "Get, get on with it," and like-

Jay Shetty 30:37 But those, those are g- thank you for those. Those are great questions.

Emma Watson 30:40 Thanks.

Jay Shetty 30:40 Really, really great questions. Emma's bravery and honesty reminds us that real love begins with knowing yourself. When you're complete on your own, you can choose someone because you want them, not because you need themAnd just as importantly, fulfillment comes from having the courage to ask hard questions, to walk away from what looks good on the outside if it doesn't feel right on the inside, and to realign your life with your deepest values. Now, it's a given that Madonna is a cultural icon, but what struck me most wasn't her ambition or longevity, it was her devotion to spirituality. Even at the height of fame, the success, she felt a void, and what sustained her wasn't the limelight, but the rituals that gave her peace and purpose. From yoga and Sanskrit study to Kabbalah, spirituality became the compass she realized she needed for herself and for her daughter. What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been so supportive and emblematic of your journey that have kept you going at the times, as you said, there were so many times you could give up or things could go wrong, or you kept pushing and you ke- they kept you locked. What were they? What are they?

Madonna 31:55 Well, one really important thing is studying, making time every week to sit down and study. I mean, you can study the Bible, you can study the poetry of Kahlil Gibran, or you can study the Vedas, you, you know.

Jay Shetty 32:15 And you did that, right? You actually-

Madonna 32:16 Yes, yes

Jay Shetty 32:16 ... studied different traditions on your-

Madonna 32:17 I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbalah, I, I was looking for answers. And-

Jay Shetty 32:24 Why do you think that was? Why were you looking for answers?

Madonna 32:26 Uh, because I had everything that people would assume would give you happiness. I had successful career, I had fame, fortune, monetary things, physical things, but I wasn't happy, and I naturally sought out... Well, when I was a dancer, I had a roommate. She was a Buddhist, and she would get up and chant every day. And so I was very intrigued by that. Like, nothing bothered her. You know what I mean? Everything bothers me. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:02 [laughs]

Madonna 33:03 Everything bothers me. I'm, you know, I'm a Leo. I'm, I'm Italian.

Jay Shetty 33:08 [laughs]

Madonna 33:09 I'm very dramatic. Um-

Jay Shetty 33:10 [laughs]

Madonna 33:11 I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but I was just struck by her confidence-

Jay Shetty 33:15 Mm

Madonna 33:16 ... and her, um, knowingness that everything was happening for a reason.

Jay Shetty 33:21 Mm.

Madonna 33:21 She never got upset about things. And this is in the beginning of my career when I was living in New York, and I was broke, and a lot of crazy things happened to me, s- really scary, traumatic things. And I would always ask her, her name is Mariana, I would always say, "What, like, why are you, like, never upset?" So I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't speak to me. And then later on, I started practicing yoga, Ashtanga yoga, and my teacher, Eddie, um, Stern, he still has a-

Jay Shetty 33:50 Love Eddie. He's great.

Madonna 33:51 You know Eddie?

Jay Shetty 33:52 Yeah, I do, yeah.

Madonna 33:53 Oh, yeah, he's amazing. I got quite caught up in and competitive about, like, first series, second series, third series.

Jay Shetty 33:59 [laughs]

Madonna 33:59 But one thing I noticed is that a lot of people would come into his pra- his practice, his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do the poses. They would just go and sit in front of the statue of Ganesh or light candles or prayer. And I realized, and Eddie pointed it out to me, 'cause sometimes I would have injuries, I would, or I would be traveling, and I couldn't practice yoga, and he'd say, "Look, are you breathing?" And I'd say, "Yes." And he said, "You're practicing yoga." So I realized that I was too, still too caught up in the physical poses. And he's like, "No, you don't understand. You're missing the whole point. The poses are just something that you do to bre- to breathe through, to calm your nervous system down, and to bring you back to your center." And that really spoke to me. There was a big, um... no, it was a painting on the wall of the yoga studio. It says, "Desire and detachment."

Jay Shetty 34:56 Mm.

Madonna 34:56 And I, I said, "What does that mean?" And he said, "Well, of course, we want, we want all the beautiful things in life. We want all the pleasures. We want all the happiness. We want every, we want it all. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't be attached to it. Because then if you're attached to it, and you don't have it, what's gonna happen to you?" So I studied that for a while, and I studied Sanskrit. I had a teacher and, you know, I learned that the vibrations of, of the letters, you know, had a calming effect on your nervous system and centered you and placed you firmly rooted on the earth. And all of that made sense to me. But then, again, nothing happens by accident, but I was pregnant with my daughter, Lola, my oldest daughter, and I suddenly realized, I was living in LA, I suddenly realized, "I'm going to be responsible for another human being. What am I going to teach her? I'm just, I'm like a meteor, like, making my way through the, you know, the, on this planet." Like, you know, I'm, I have great survival instincts. I have a great work ethic. Yes, I'm very ambitious, all of those things. Um, but I was never, like, I was just knocking them down, you know what I mean? And not, like, looking back. Like, I'm gonna be somebody because that's, you know, that's why I came to New York in the first place. I will never go back to the nobody life I had when I was a child growing up. So I definitely was fueled by an inner drive, but I would not say that I was spiritual or conscious. When I was pregnant, I suddenly realized I knew nothing, and I was a slave or a victim of, of other people's opinions of me, and I didn't have really, even though it looks like and looks like I was confident, brave, audacious, whatever, you know-Um, I, deep down inside I was not. So I was at a dinner party-

Jay Shetty 37:08 While you were pregnant?

Madonna 37:09 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 37:10 Yeah.

Madonna 37:10 I was at a dinner party at my friend's in LA, and there was a woman sitting next to me, and I knew her vaguely. She was the, she's a costume designer. She was a costume designer. Her husband's a director. And she said, "Oh, you should come with me to class." And I said,

Madonna 37:29 "What class?" I'm, I'm open to classes by the way. I love being a student. "So what's the class all about?" She says, "There's a teacher there. It's something called Kabbalah. It's next to a synagogue." And I was like, "Wait, so he's Jewish?" And she said, "Yeah, but it doesn't have anything to do with being Jewish. It's just a belief system." Not a belief system, like a philosophy about life that, you know, you could learn a lot from. And I said, "Okay, I'll go." So I did.

Jay Shetty 38:00 [laughs]

Madonna 38:01 And that's how I met my teacher, and I literally would sit in the back of class for years. Mostly men were in the class at the time. It was, um, but everything that he said seemed to make so much sense to me, and gave me courage to be who I am and who I'm meant to be, and made me actually think about intention and a real sense of purpose.

Jay Shetty 38:26 Mm.

Madonna 38:27 'Cause my sense of purpose can't just be I wanna be rich and famous, or I wanna be popular, or I wanna sell a lot of records, because none of that lasts.

Jay Shetty 38:35 Mm.

Madonna 38:36 But it wasn't until I went to class that I actually started thinking about those things, so I just kept going. And, um, here I am today. But, you know, motherhood or being a parent is really what, um, made me start asking questions that I p- most likely I should have asked them sooner, but I didn't-

Jay Shetty 38:54 Mm

Madonna 38:55 ... 'cause I was just caught up in my self. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 38:59 I lo- I love that story for so many reasons, one of them being that my journey to my spirituality had certain similarities in that, not that I was pregnant, so definitely not that one. But, uh-

Madonna 39:10 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 39:10 ... I had a friend and friends who were starting to get interested in spirituality, and they invited me to hear a monk speak. And I'd seen monks while I was growing up, but I'd never really engaged with one or really understood what they did or meant, and I'm so glad I said yes to going along. And I was very young. I was 18, 19 years old.

Madonna 39:32 Mm.

Jay Shetty 39:33 I wasn't even seeking. I was open, and I was curious.

Madonna 39:36 Right.

Jay Shetty 39:37 And to be honest, I was doing what everyone else was doing at that time when you're an 18, 19-year-old kid, like, you know-

Madonna 39:43 Experimenting

Jay Shetty 39:43 ... experimenting and doing everything else under the sun. But I'm so glad I went, because now looking back, I find that after meeting the monks that I met-

Madonna 39:53 Mm

Jay Shetty 39:53 ... it gave my life a compass at a very early age-

Madonna 39:57 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 39:57 ... that I'm so grateful for, because it changed the entire trajectory of my life. I can't imagine what I would have ended up doing-

Madonna 40:04 Yeah

Jay Shetty 40:04 ... in the same way as you did, and it sounds dramatic, but it's true, that without the group of friends that invited me to go along and, and meet my teachers-

Madonna 40:13 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 40:14 ... who'd become my future teachers-

Madonna 40:15 Uh-huh

Jay Shetty 40:16 ... I, I can't imagine what life could be like.

Madonna 40:18 And are those teachers still your teachers?

Jay Shetty 40:21 Yes, absolutely, still since that time, so-

Madonna 40:23 Okay

Jay Shetty 40:23 ... it's been nearly 20 years now that I've studied.

Madonna 40:25 That's meaningful.

Jay Shetty 40:26 Yeah, very meaningful.

Madonna 40:27 And are your friends that came with you still also studying or practicing?

Jay Shetty 40:32 One of those, one of those, yes, absolutely. One of those friends was my best man at my wedding.

Madonna 40:36 Mm.

Jay Shetty 40:36 And he studies under the same teacher still this day.

Madonna 40:39 Yeah, that's cool.

Jay Shetty 40:40 Yeah. What about the friends-

Madonna 40:40 Although the woman who took me to class, no.

Jay Shetty 40:42 [laughs] Okay. Yeah.

Madonna 40:43 No. She didn't stick with it.

Jay Shetty 40:45 Uh, are you still in-

Madonna 40:46 But it's okay

Jay Shetty 40:46 ... touch with her at all or not?

Madonna 40:47 Yes, I am sometimes. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:49 Yeah, yeah.

Madonna 40:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:49 It's, it's amazing to hear that you had this ambition and this drive-

Madonna 40:54 Yeah

Jay Shetty 40:55 ... to become successful, and at the same time there was this spiritual calling-

Madonna 40:59 Yes

Jay Shetty 40:59 ... that was almost happening simultaneously. How did you reconcile the two when to the external eye they could look very opposite? How did you actually see them?

Madonna 41:10 Like look weird, you mean? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 41:11 Not weird in the sense of I think a lot of people assume that spirituality and success don't go together. A lot of people would think that-

Madonna 41:17 Well, that's absurd. Those are narrow-minded people. I mean, you need to be spiritual to be successful. Success is having a spiritual life, period. It's interesting, 'cause I had this boyfriend some time ago, and w- I ... After we broke up, we saw each other years later, and I was telling him about Kabbalah. He's like, "Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, because you grew up as a Catholic. I know how religious your mother was." And I was like,

Madonna 41:45 "No. No. That's not what it is at all. It's got nothing to do with religion." Everybody has to find the, the path that speaks to them and resonates with them.

Jay Shetty 41:56 Mm.

Madonna 41:57 But I do think it's important to have one, and I dare say if you didn't have a spiritual path, you wouldn't be as successful as you are today. I will make that assumption, in your work, in your marriage, w- in your friendships, all your relationships. It, honestly it sounds like a really, like a cliché, your spiritual life even. It's like the reason ... But it's just got a bad rap.

Jay Shetty 42:21 Mm.

Madonna 42:21 You know? You, like, 100% can have a spiritual life and be successful. I wouldn't be here if I didn't have one.

Jay Shetty 42:28 Madonna's story is a reminder that success without inner grounding can feel empty. True resilience isn't fueled by ambition alone. It comes from a deeper sense of purpose and doing the internal work to find fulfillment. She demonstrates the takeaway that spirituality isn't separate from success, it's the foundation of it. It brings me so much joy to share this with you and to give something back in the process.Junie is now available at Whole Foods Market nationwide, and I'd love for you to try it for free. Head to drinkjunie.com/jay and get a complimentary can of Junie on me at any Whole Foods Market. Radhi and I created Junie with a simple intention: to help you feel better from the inside out. It's a sparkling adaptogenic drink crafted with ashwagandha, lion's mane, and green tea to boost your mood, support your focus, and give you clean, natural energy that stays with you throughout the day. So go to drinkjunie.com/jay and run to your nearest Whole Foods Market for your free Junie. I can't wait for you to try it. Cheers. When Benny Blanco and Selena Gomez sat down with me, it was evident that their love wasn't just playful, it was mature. They shared how they handle conflict, take space, and return to one another with honesty and respect. Research shows lasting couples aren't those who never argue, but those who keep respect and practice repair. Real love isn't perfection, it's creating a safe space through communication and trust.

Benny Blanco 44:02 Sometimes she'll say... This is so funny.

Selena Gomez 44:05 Oh, boy. [laughs]

Benny Blanco 44:06 No, no, no. She'll do this, and it's really cool. She'll go,

Benny Blanco 44:10 "I'm feeling a little irritated, and I think I need, like, 25 minutes." And I'll say, "Okay." And then I give her her space, and then after, like, five minutes, she texts me. She's like, "Hey, will you come back? I miss you."

Selena Gomez 44:23 [laughs]

Benny Blanco 44:23 But, but it's, but it's knowing that, and we have the proper boundaries set with each other. Like, I don't have to be on top of her every second. She doesn't have to be on top of me every second we're together. I just wanna know she's in the house so I can say, like, "Hey, I love you," and then go back to what I'm doing, you know what I mean?

Selena Gomez 44:42 [laughs]

Benny Blanco 44:42 'Cause, look, we're both highly independent people, okay? But we're both little mushes who just need to be attached at the hip.

Selena Gomez 44:50 Yeah. We are so cheesy. It's so fun.

Benny Blanco 44:53 [laughs] Yeah. But it's like, but I feel like, I think it helps us too that we're both... You know, on my list, a thing was I wanted someone to be driven and inspired by something. I didn't care if they made any money or anything. I just wanted someone to be so into something that they did every day. And when she comes back from her day and she tells me what she did, I'm like, I'm not sitting there like, "Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm." Like when you're talking to your mom. You know when you're talking to your mom and you just say-

Selena Gomez 45:22 [laughs]

Benny Blanco 45:22 Your mom just keeps talking, you go, "Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah." Like, she comes back and, like, my eyes light up because I see the enthusiasm. I see what she did, and I'm like, fucking inspires me, and I'm like, "I gotta do more in this lane." And it's like we're in this place where we're inspiring each other, and we're so inspired by what the other person's doing. And, and she'll help me out. She'll be like, "Well, what if you did it like this, this, and this?" And I'm like... And then she'll say something and I'll be like, "Well, why don't you handle this situation?" Because we have such different personalities that are also the same, but we're s- the thing that one of us is really good at, the other one maybe lacks a little bit and vice versa. And it's so cool to be able to, like, workshop, like, little conversations or how to handle a situation. And it... And I just feel so comfortable with her, like, that I can say anything and she won't ever say... I don't know.

Jay Shetty 46:17 I love the maturity. I mean, hearing you both talk about it-

Selena Gomez 46:20 Yes, but let's be clear.

Benny Blanco 46:21 [laughs]

Selena Gomez 46:21 We are not the perfect-

Benny Blanco 46:23 No, no, no

Jay Shetty 46:23 It's not perfect. No-

Benny Blanco 46:24 We're so silly and-

Jay Shetty 46:25 But you're disagreeing. No, no, no. But I, I think the maturity of... And, and I agree with you. I think, I think that's actually the difference, and I'm glad you brought that up. I think there's a big difference between maturity and perfection.

Benny Blanco 46:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:35 Perfection is saying we never have a disagreement, we never have to take space from each other, we ne-

Benny Blanco 46:41 Yeah

Jay Shetty 46:41 ... you know, which you're not saying. You're saying, "Hey, I just asked for 25 minutes space." [laughs]

Benny Blanco 46:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:45 And then I was like, "Wait a minute, I need you."

Benny Blanco 46:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:47 And I think there's a maturity in that because it requires maturity from both parts-

Selena Gomez 46:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 46:51 ... for you to first say, "Hey, I need space," for you to say, "I get it. I respect you," and then for you to have the maturity to say, "Actually, I want you back"-

Benny Blanco 47:00 Yeah

Jay Shetty 47:00 ... and for you to be like, not like, "Oh, I told you so," for you to be like, "I'm here for you." Like, that, that's not perfection. To me, that's maturity, and I think that's... I really want people to get that from it, that you are gonna have disagreements. You are gonna want space. Like, me and Radhi went through that. She, at the beginning of our relationship, if we had a disagreement, and we were the same, we never... We made a rule that we would never raise our voices at each other because I came from a home where it was not great.

Benny Blanco 47:25 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 47:25 She comes from a home where her parents don't raise their voices. But I was just like, I never wanted that in my home. I wanted the energy of my home to be so sacred, and I wanted the energy of the home to always have a space where everyone just walked in and felt, like, a warm hug. And I was like, "We can't argue and then expect that to happen." But it took a long time for us to realize that when she, at the start of our disagreements, she wanted space, and I used to say to her, "Well, if you don't want to talk about it right now, that means you don't care about me." And that wasn't true. She just needed space to process. So it took time for us to mature, for me to realize, "Wait a minute, you wanting space is you caring-

Selena Gomez 48:01 Yeah.

Benny Blanco 48:01 Yeah

Jay Shetty 48:02 ... for the relationship."

Benny Blanco 48:03 Some people, I get it, they wanna talk about it right then. They wanna... The one thing that also works for us so much is, like, we're not chill people, but we're like, we're not, we're never gonna get... I, like, I'm not gonna yell at anyone in my li- like-

Jay Shetty 48:16 Yeah, same. [laughs]

Benny Blanco 48:16 Yeah. And you know, I, I came from a home where a lot of that was happening, and I saw, like, at a young age, and I was just like, well, like, my parents weren't speaking the same language. Obviously, they were speaking the actual same language. They weren't speaking the same language to each other to communicate. And if someone comes at you, like, hostile right away, the first thing I'm gonna do, and I know she's gonna do, is shut down. So you're not getting anything. You know, and I always say this, guys are so quick to, like, they gotta win. They gotta win the argument, and it's like, what are you doing? What are you winning? Like, you're gonna argue with your wife and, like, make her cry, and then you're like, "I won that argument"-

Selena Gomez 48:59 [laughs]

Benny Blanco 48:59 ... and then she hates you and resents you. Like, wait, like, don't be a idiot. And, and it's like, I only-

Selena Gomez 49:04 I've been guilty, though, to start.

Benny Blanco 49:06 Yeah. I don't know. I just-

Selena Gomez 49:07 Not of you. Sorry. I-

Benny Blanco 49:10 What do you mean?

Selena Gomez 49:10 I think for me, I necessarily-Felt like in other, uh, situations of mine, it was, um, I was very reactive. I think that's why I was alone for five years, 'cause I really needed to collect myself. I think in the past, that's why I say to him all the time, "And 10 years ago, it's not that I wouldn't have wanted to be with you, I just wouldn't have been in the right head space, and I don't think that you deserve what I had gone through before." So I've learned a lot of lessons, and I've made mistakes, and, and I just want this to be right. So for me, that was a lesson that I had to learn, 'cause I think girls can equally wanna be right. That, for me, it was really difficult in the past, and he's made it unbelievably easy to the point where if I even get to the point where I'm so, ugh, frustrated, he's, like, very quick to understand. "I'm, I hear you. Like, you're allowed to feel that," and that helped me shift where my mind used to go, which was a little bit of anger. So-

Jay Shetty 50:20 So it was the validation of how you felt in those reactive moments-

Selena Gomez 50:24 Yes

Jay Shetty 50:25 ... that allowed you to not be reactive? What was it that allowed you? Because I feel like, as Benny was saying earlier, you carry this baggage from all of our relationships-

Selena Gomez 50:33 Yeah

Jay Shetty 50:33 ... into this one.

Selena Gomez 50:34 I respect Benny. I, because he's done nothing but respect me. I, again, trust him. I can tell him anything, even if it's about something that's uncomfortable and maybe you sh- you should just talk to your girlfriends. Like, he is that, and that helps calm me down to say, "Okay, so I'm going through these things 'cause of maybe what I had before," whatever it is. It's, n- nothing is ever bad. Like, nothing in my life I regret, and I'm so, so happy for my journey, and I'll continue to be. It is a lesson that you have to be patient and learn, and I, I just, I could never picture myself disrespecting him, I think.

Benny Blanco 51:22 Well, it's, it's also just a different thing because it's like, look, none of us are perfect. Like, she gets spicy sometimes.

Selena Gomez 51:29 Yeah.

Benny Blanco 51:29 And when I see something happening, it's about guiding the missile, not adding a jet pack on top of it with a, with, like, machine gun artillery. Like, e- I wanna make... If I see her getting to a place where I'm like, "Man, in five minutes from now, this room could explode," I'm never gonna let it get to that five minutes from now. I'm gonna say, "What are all the tools-

Selena Gomez 51:52 Mm

Benny Blanco 51:52 ... that I know that work for her, that I've learned over..." Like, I'm not gonna exacerbate a situation. I'm gonna try to calm it down, 'cause why do I wanna be in that position where we're both just, like, upset about something? I don't wanna just calm it down and tell her what she wants to hear. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying, like, to your partner, be like, "Yes, you're right. You're totally right. Like, everything you..." No. I think you listen, and you say, like, "Okay, we're..." Like, sometimes I even, I'll say, like, "Let's not let it get there. Let's, like, just-

Selena Gomez 52:20 Mm

Benny Blanco 52:21 ... talk about this." And I, I do think physical touch is always, like, a very big way. Like, if you're in a conversation with your partner, like, it's like sometimes just, like, a hand helps, or just holding their hand while you're telling them, or giving them a hug while you're telling them. And, and if someone's upset, let them talk it out first, and then after they talk it out, be like, "Okay, well, here's what I think." You know? And, and you can work through these things together such an easy way. It's not-

Selena Gomez 52:48 Very constructive.

Benny Blanco 52:49 Yeah. It's not always easy, I can tell you that, and sometimes we just... Someone wants to be frustrated.

Jay Shetty 52:54 Yeah.

Benny Blanco 52:54 And it's like sometimes she'll tell me that. She'll just be like, "I know it's gonna be okay, but, like, I just wanna be frustrated in this moment."

Jay Shetty 53:00 Yeah.

Benny Blanco 53:01 And, and I'll have to redirect 'cause I'll be like, "You know what? You have every right to be in this mo-" And she'll say, "This is why." She said, "This is why I wanna be frustrated in this moment." She said it the other day about something. I can't even remember. And I was just like, "Oh, my God." I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "That makes so much sense." I was like, "I don't agree with the frustration. We'll get there afterwards." [laughs] And I was like, "But I get it. I get it." And it's so cool, and I've never quite had a relationship like with her, and we're the furthest thing from perfect in the world. We're perfect for each other. We're not perfect for everyone else. But I think the thing that's cool is that we've had all

Benny Blanco 53:37 these experiences. I've had all my experiences where it wasn't right, and I'm like, "Oh, okay, I'm gonna change that the next time, you know, with this person or with that person." And I think that's when you really grow-

Jay Shetty 53:48 Yeah

Benny Blanco 53:48 ... is when you take all your experiences, good or bad. Like, I, I'm like her. I take every experience in my life, my past partners, my family, my everything. It's like everything happened for a reason, and I'm not gonna sit here and mope about, like, things that could be better or different. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna say, "Okay, I learned this, and now I'm gonna put it into practice."

Jay Shetty 54:09 Yeah. Yeah.

Benny Blanco 54:10 You know?

Jay Shetty 54:10 Yeah. For me, I always, I always said to Radhi, I always said to my wife, "Do you want me to listen? Do you want me to fix this, or do you just want me to go through it with you?"

Benny Blanco 54:19 Yeah. 'Cause a lot of times-

Jay Shetty 54:20 Like, make it clear for me because-

Benny Blanco 54:22 They don't want you to fix it right away.

Jay Shetty 54:23 They don't. No.

Benny Blanco 54:23 And I'm not saying, I'm saying men or women.

Jay Shetty 54:25 Yeah, yeah.

Benny Blanco 54:25 Sometimes it's not about fixing. You know, everyone is... You know, I'm such a problem solver, and you are, too, so it's like your first thing... Your, I know the first thing in your head is like, "How can I fix this situation?" But sometimes it's not about fixing it right there.

Benny Blanco 54:37 Sometimes it's about just, like, you know, especially for women who are, like, strong, like both our partners.

Selena Gomez 54:44 Mm.

Benny Blanco 54:44 They don't have a lot of time to be vulnerable in all the areas of their life. They have the world on their backs. Your wife has... There's so many people that re- rely on her. There's so many people that rely on her, so sometimes they just wanna complain about something, and that's okay.

Jay Shetty 55:00 Yeah.

Benny Blanco 55:00 That's okay.

Jay Shetty 55:00 Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Benny Blanco 55:01 It's okay.

Jay Shetty 55:01 For sure.

Benny Blanco 55:01 Who else are they gonna do it to? They might as well do it, and you, and you just listen.

Jay Shetty 55:05 What Benny and Selena show us is that love is less about avoiding conflict and more about how you navigate it. Taking space without abandoning each other, listening before fixing, and validating feelings instead of winning the argument, that's what creates trust, respect, and growth.Their story is proof that lasting love isn't built on perfection. It's built on continuing to choose each other. And finally, President Biden. It was the honor of a lifetime to be invited to the White House to interview a sitting president. When I sat with President Biden, our conversation turned to loneliness, grief, and the role of family. He reflected on how small gestures of presence, a call, a visit, simply showing up, can ease the anxiety many young people face today.

Speaker 55:53 Think of all the young people today.

Jay Shetty 55:56 Mm.

Speaker 55:56 I think that there's more anxiety and loneliness today than there's been in a long, long time.

Jay Shetty 56:03 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 56:03 You know my friend, I appointed him admiral, uh, Vivek Murthy. He was telling me about, uh, you know, the percentage of young people today who are feeling lonely, alone. And sometimes it's just, just touching, just showing up. I used to get my s- to see Beau, who should be sitting here instead of me, would, uh, always say, "Dad, you know, I'm trying to make that call." You know, I'd, I'd get in a plane and go home and because s- someone had a, a serious problem, lost a wife, a daughter. And I'd, and I'd, and he said, "Dad, you don't have time."

Speaker 56:41 When he passed away, the hundreds of people told me how he called, he showed up, he was there. And, uh, because the people who showed up for me, too. It just really matters.

Jay Shetty 56:52 Yeah. You've been through, you mention it there, you've been through so much tragic loss in your life. As you just mentioned there, you didn't run for presidency in 2016, shortly after the loss of your son. You've lost your first wife and daughter in a horrific accident. I can't even begin to understand how someone has the courage to process that much loss and grief, let alone move forward in the way you have. It's truly admirable. H- how, how did you begin?

Speaker 57:25 I had an overwhelming advantage in the loss, and that was I had a, a really close family that was there. For example, when my, uh, wife and daughter were killed, my first wife and my two boys were very badly injured, a tractor-trailer broadsided them. I was in, was not in the accident. When I got home from the hospital, my sister and husband already gave up their apartment and moved in, helped me raise my kids. My brother, we, we lived in a suburban area. It was more country than suburban. And there was a little barn on, a garage barn. My, my brother came, and he turned the loft of the barn into an apartment for himself. They were there for me all the time. That was a gigantic difference. My best friend in my life are my sister and my brothers. And, and, uh, so I had an enormous advantage, and I think that when you see people who are going through something tough, it does matter if you reach out. I mean, it, it does matter. Like, for example, you know, you have a, when you're a senator for all the years I was in a small state, you know so many people, and people would pass away. You'd show up at the wake or the funeral. No matter what was happening, I learned it early on, people would stop and just come and throw their arms around me. Because if they know you know the pain they feel, they get some solace in it. It's not always easy, but it's, uh, it, it just matters just to, to just to reach out. Let people know you see them.

Jay Shetty 58:57 How did you allow yourself to receive that help, too? I feel like, as you were mentioning earlier, with the loneliness and the anxiety that exists, a lot of people either struggle to know what to say. I think we live in a society where people are like, "Well, what do I say if they've gone through that?"

Speaker 59:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 59:13 And the opposite end, what you just said, being able to be open enough to actually receive help requires a certain amount of courage and strength as well.

Speaker 59:23 Well, I was, uh, raising a family for real, an extended family, my grandparents as well, where, uh, my dad had an expression, "Family is the beginning, middle, and end." There's a rule in the family growing up, not a joke. We didn't know it at the time, but whenever you wanted to speak to your mother or father, I mean, they said, "Can we..." You had a problem. No matter what they were doing, they stopped. No matter what they were doing-

Jay Shetty 59:51 Mm

Speaker 59:52 ... they stopped and heard you, listened to you. And I did the same with my children, and they, they did the same with theirs because it's a, it's a matter of them knowing that you, they are the most important thing in your life.

Jay Shetty 1:00:07 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:00:07 If they've got a problem, you're there to listen. I have, uh, seven grandkids, uh, four of them old, five of them old enough to talk on the phone. You know, every day I either text them or call them. And as a matter of fact, during the campaign [laughs] they were, they were having a... I didn't realize they were having an interview, uh, the, the, the four oldest grandchildren.

Jay Shetty 1:00:30 [laughs]

Speaker 1:00:30 They said, and just at the time, and they said, they call me Pop, "Pop calls us every day or texts us every day." And I called them. The phone rang.

Jay Shetty 1:00:39 While they're in the interview.

Speaker 1:00:39 Well, I, I give my word I had no idea they were in there. [laughs] But it's, uh, look, I, I just think being there is, is important and, and makes such a difference, I think, knowing that someone's gonna be there for you.

Jay Shetty 1:00:56 Mm.

Speaker 1:00:56 Just to listen, just to, just to hold you.

Jay Shetty 1:00:59 Mm.

Speaker 1:00:59 Just to hug you.

Jay Shetty 1:01:01 Yeah. After his own losses, he shared how family and community carried him through. Research confirms it, social support is one of the strongest predictors of resilience in the face of trauma. What the President reminds us is that helping doesn't require perfect words or solutions. It can simply require presence. To reach out when someone is struggling, to show up when it would be easier to stay away, and to listen fully so the people we love know they matter. Because sometimes the greatest gift we can give is simply not letting someone go through it alone. These conversations are just a glimpse of what this community has built together over 5 million subscribers. On Purpose has always been about learning and growing together. Thank you for being a part of this community, for listening, watching, and carrying these lessons into your own lives. I'm so incredibly grateful, and I can't wait for the next 5 million. Thank you. If you enjoyed this podcast, you're going to love my conversation with Michelle Obama, where she opens up on how to stay with your partner when they're changing and the four check-ins you should be doing in your relationship. We also talk about how to deal with relationships when they're under stress. If you're going through something right now with your partner or someone you're seeing, this is the episode for you.

Joe Biden 1:02:25 No wonder our kids are struggling. We have a new technology, and we've just taken it in hook, line, and sinker. And we have to be mindful for our kids. They'll just be thumbing through this stuff, you know. Their, their mind's never sleeping