Are You Sabotaging Your Happiness? The Key Habits That Drive Success in Love & Life @LisaBilyeu

Lisa Bilyeu 0:00 It's imperative when you get into a relationship, before you commit, who leads and who follows? Think about in dancing, you can't have two leaders. You just can't. Think about running a company, you can't have two CEOs. You have to have that moment of who is leading and who is following.

Jay Shetty 0:16 Hey, everyone. I've got some huge news to share with you. In the last 90 days, 79.4% of our audience came from viewers and listeners that are not subscribed to this channel. There's research that shows that if you want to create a habit, make it easy to access. By hitting the Subscribe button, you're creating a habit of learning how to be happier, healthier, and more healed. This would also mean the absolute world to me and help us make better, bigger, brighter content for you in the world. Subscribe right now. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.

Speaker 0:54 Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty 0:55 The one, the only Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty 0:59 Lisa, I think confidence is such a important and powerful topic.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:04 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:04 I wanted to ask you, because I think there's so much material, and you do so many interviews around confidence and what it means and what it feels like, how do you define confidence for you, and what does it mean to you, and what is something that people can think of? Because I think everyone has a different view of the word confidence.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:23 Yeah, I think most people actually have the misinterpretation of what confidence actually is.

Jay Shetty 1:27 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:28 Because they usually, and I was culprit of this when I was a stay-at-home wife for eight years, I thought I needed it to get started, and I thought I needed the confidence to live out my dreams, to actually go towards my goals, and I was waiting to have the confidence. And that, I think, is a complete misconception, is what actually is holding so many of us back from trying anything. And what I realized was, in my own journey, I actually just needed to take action. I needed to go into something very insecure, not knowing what I was doing, practicing, practicing, practicing, you know, wax on, wax off my favorite movie, Karate Kid [laughs] and get so damn good that I build the competence to then lead to confidence.

Jay Shetty 2:05 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 2:05 So the truth is the confidence is the byproduct of taking action.

Jay Shetty 2:09 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 2:09 And a lot of us don't think of it like that. We think it's gonna be the magic bullet that's gonna get us to actually take that action at the beginning. Um, and so that's where I actually reshaped and how I rethought of the word confidence. And then also for me, confidence is like a muscle. If you don't keep practicing it, you won't actually get strong at it.

Jay Shetty 2:28 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 2:29 And if you stop practicing, you will get weaker.

Jay Shetty 2:32 Yes.

Lisa Bilyeu 2:32 And just like when you go to the gym, you may practice like your biceps or your legs, it's a different mechanism to practice working your calves than practicing your bicep. So that is what confidence is. It's not you get confidence in one area and you're good to go.

Jay Shetty 2:46 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 2:47 It's like you get confidence maybe in being in front of a camera, but being in front of the camera, as you know, Jay, is very different than being on stage.

Jay Shetty 2:53 Mm-hmm.

Lisa Bilyeu 2:53 So when someone sees maybe you've got confidence in one area, it doesn't mean that you've got confidence everywhere else. And I think peop- if it's you and you're thinking about it, you may then think that you're incompetent or you're no good or like it's just, "Well, I don't have the genes, so I may as well not go t- get started." But the truth is, identify where you co- want the confidence, get started, build that competence, and then eventually it will breed confidence.

Jay Shetty 3:18 Yeah, absolutely. I, I couldn't agree with you more. I remember once looking at the definition of confidence-

Lisa Bilyeu 3:22 Mm

Jay Shetty 3:22 ... in the dictionary, and one of the definitions is, "An appreciation of one's own abilities, skills, and qualities."

Lisa Bilyeu 3:31 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 3:32 I was like, "I really like that definition." Like, it's actually self-validation. [laughs] Like, confidence is being able to look at yourself and say, "I'm good at this. I'm actually a kind person. I'm a thoughtful person. I am a good public speaker. I am a best-selling author," whatever it may be, and you're almost validating a skill, quality, or attribute you have by yourself. And I think it's so interesting, and you're right, I think we viewed confidence as how do other people feel about us. So we look at it as like, "Oh, that person looks so confident 'cause they're like walking out their car. They got that swag."

Lisa Bilyeu 4:10 Mm.

Jay Shetty 4:10 "They're like dripping in great clothes," or whatever it may be, and we see that as confidence. But we know that that person could be sitting in there going, "Oh, I'm, I'm not the right size. I'm

Jay Shetty 4:21 overweight, underweight. I'm..." whatever else it may be, and criticizing themselves. I was wondering, what is something that took you the longest in your life to build confidence around?

Lisa Bilyeu 4:33 Ooh. I'm ever-evolving, but I think it really was to believe in myself that I'm capable. And that all started from because I was a stay-at-home wife for eight years, and I want to just make sure that I say this, though, there's nothing wrong with being a stay-at-home wife at all. It's actually one of the hardest jobs that was for me, but I didn't want it. That actually wasn't my dream. It was, I felt like it was sucking the life out of me. So as that staying home wife, I didn't make any change because I didn't feel like I was capable of anything because I was so insecure. That voice in my head was so negative, Jay, telling me all the reasons why I was no good to try anything. And so in order for me to build my confidence to move forward, I was like, "Well, what if I am bad? Who cares?" You have to actually practice. Why do I think that I can be amazing at something, right? If someone looks at you and they're like, "Oh my God, he's such an amazing podcaster," how long have you been doing it? Years and years and years and years. So when someone looks at you, and let's say they're comparing their beginning to your middle or your end, you will feel incompetent. And so for me, I had to stop looking outside of myself at all the amazing people because I believed I wasn't good enough to try. And so I had to build the internal confidence to take that action, to actually just try and understand that it's going to be a process. And without that, I never would have got out of what I call purgatory of the mundane, where my life is just mundane enough, and so I'm just stuck there day in and day out. And that idea that even if you don't feel good enough, you can still take action, I think was the biggest thing that was the hardest for me because I didn't want to get bullied. I was already bullied as a kid for my looks from other women. So you can imagine me trying anything, that fear of being bullied from other girls was so petrifying that I didn't even want to take a chance.

Jay Shetty 6:17 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 6:17 And so realizing, A, I have to build that within myself, and you said the word validate actually earlier. That word really sticks with me, with me because I think a lot of us wait for validat- external validation. We wait for someone to tell us that we're a good Greek wife or an amazing husband or a fantastic wife, and that can actually hold us where we are. Because I was so seeking validation from everybody else, and at the time I was getting validation for being that stay-at-home wife. And so you can imagine, I have low self-esteem, I don't believe in myself, I don't think I'm good enough, and everyone's validating me for this one thing, even though I don't like that one thing. That validation, that feeling good about yourself is what kept me there.

Jay Shetty 7:00 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 7:00 So I think the trick is, is how do you make sure that you validate yourself? And that became the path for me building my confidence every single day. What am I gonna do today to validate myself? Not get validation from my partner, from my boyfriend, from the ex, how many likes I got on Instagram. No, no, how can I validate myself? And that became

Lisa Bilyeu 7:21 my north star versus everyone else making me feel good about myself.

Jay Shetty 7:24 Absolutely. I mean, how did you get the courage to admit to yourself that you weren't happy in that moment? Because I feel like a lot of people, friends that I know, people I have in my life, will kind of tell themselves the story, and we have to because-

Lisa Bilyeu 7:42 Mm

Jay Shetty 7:42 ... you have to survive and you need a coping mechanism, and we'll just be like, "No, I'm all right. I'm okay. No, you know, this is life. Like, it's all right. This is, this is my, you know, this is my, uh, lot in life, and this is what I have to do, and this is just how it is." And we say these things because we're scared of what may be on the other side of admitting to ourselves that actually where I am is not where I want to be, and we kind of supplement it with, "Oh, everyone thinks I'm doing all right, so of course I can't be doing that badly." How do you kinda get the courage to say, "You know what? I don't want this life"? Because I think that statement requires a lot of courage, and I know I was scared to admit it to myself when I was... I'd already left the monastery. I was in a corporate job. It was safe, it was stable, it was sturdy, career progression was obvious, and here I was going... And by the way, I was so scared I would never get a job after leaving the monastery, so even having a job I was very grateful, because no one would give me one.

Lisa Bilyeu 8:39 Mm.

Jay Shetty 8:39 So now for me to be like, "Okay, I need to break this away," and everyone's like, "Wait a minute, you're lucky to have a job, bro. You didn't work for three years." Like, so how do you, how did you get the courage to admit to yourself, "I'm not happy here"?

Lisa Bilyeu 8:53 Yeah, so I love this question because it's such a small dripping effect, and I liken it to water dripping on a stone. A couple of drops is not a big deal. Over time, you do that year after year after year, what happens to that rock? It actually starts to change its shape, and that's what I started to realize. Me ignoring my happiness, ignoring what I actually wanted, started to chan- change the shape of how I saw myself. And after eight years, I didn't look like what was looking back at me in the mirror. I couldn't recognize myself because I wasn't speaking up. I wasn't having my voice. And so there were a couple of things that I realized that really, uh, became like the straw that broke the camel's back, if you will. One of them was I was using gratitude, which I love, right? It's like, be grateful for things you have because there are other people out there that don't have that. So the first couple of years from im- um, in, uh, my marriage, I was using gratitude even though I didn't want to be the stay-at-home wife. Now, that looked like, "My God, I don't like being a stay... I don't like cooking and cleaning, but actually I'm so grateful I have a husband that loves me. My God, the amount of people that don't have that healthy relationship, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful I've got a roof over my head. I'm so grateful," fill in the blank. And that was wonderful, but come year four, year five, year six, year seven, that gratitude started to really turn its head into almost toxic gratitude, which every time that voice that was speaking, "Are you happy, Lisa? Like, you don't seem happy," I would use the gratitude to shut her down, and that looked like, "How ungrateful are you? How ungrateful are you that you want e- something else when you've got a husband that loves you? How ungrateful are you, Lisa, that you want to go out in the workforce when you don't have to?" So that voice, that gratitude started to become really toxic. And so identifying that, allowing the voice in my head to just turn up the volume, allow her to actually speak, because we've been taught, especially for me growing up Greek Orthodox, is you live in service of everybody else. You live in service of the family, the husband, the kids, and so you put yourself last. And I started to realize this voice is getting louder. What happens if I actually start to listen to her? What does that look like? Because I'm such a self-ownership person, and so if I'm unhappy, what am I gonna do about it? What choices am I going to make different that's going to lead me to a different outcome? And I started to realize it was all on me. I hadn't spoken up and told Tom, my husband, that I was unhappy. So let, let's just address step one. Acknowledge, Lisa, you're unhappy, without shame and guilt. Acknowledge it to myself. That was step one. Then acknowledge it to my husband. "I love you more than life itself, babe, but I don't want to cook for you and clean for you anymore." Voicing that, having the, the strength, the courage, you said that earlier, having the courage to really own where you are instead of sitting in the shame was a massive thing. And then the final thing is just project your li- your life out. What does it look like if you don't make a change in a year, in five years, in 10 years, in 20 years? And the truth is, I would've been doing the same thing. I would've then slipped into being a m- mother. I would... Because that's what my culture told me, and then I would've slipped into giving over to the children and s- and the husband, and in 10, 20 years, I'm exactly where I am, just on a different scale. And those elements were the things that I'm like, "Oh, well, no one's coming to save you. No one's gonna come and change your life for you, so what am I gonna do right now to make that change?"

Jay Shetty 12:25 Mm. That, that resonates so deeply, and I love that you brought up that toxic gratitude point, because it's so interesting how we somehow deep down believe we deserve so little.

Lisa Bilyeu 12:37 Mm.

Jay Shetty 12:37 Right? Like, and whether it's conditioning, where we grew up, there's, there's a sense inside of us, and by the way, I, I can relate to all of that. We, we grew up in the same area. We've talked about this before.

Lisa Bilyeu 12:47 Like a block away from each other.

Jay Shetty 12:48 Literally, literally.

Lisa Bilyeu 12:49 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 12:50 And, you know, I kind of ... Like, when people ask me now, like, you know, how, how does it feel and everything, I'm like, I actually never in a million years believed that any of this would ever be possible or even that I even had a dream for it. I don't even think I dreamed this big. And there was a part of me that just was okay with whatever would have come and whatever would have been and what ev- everyone around me was doing. And now I see that that was because somewhere deep inside of myself I was hampering my potential, I was restricting my desire because-

Lisa Bilyeu 13:27 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 13:28 ... it's almost like you're so scared that it may never happen that you'd rather not allow the possibility.

Lisa Bilyeu 13:33 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 13:33 Does that make sense?

Lisa Bilyeu 13:34 Yeah. The fear of failure is actually, or failing is actually worse than the fear of failing.

Jay Shetty 13:39 Yes.

Lisa Bilyeu 13:39 So you're like, "Well, I may as well

Lisa Bilyeu 13:40 sit in the fear of failing than actually fail and have everyone see it."

Jay Shetty 13:43 Yeah, exactly. So for you, what was that like? Like, I guess how have you dealt with that? Like, you've been on both ends now. Like, you've been in a place where you didn't even feel like you were allowed to deserve a different life. You've now built one of the most successful companies. You've built another incredible media company. Like, you know, it's like you've now seen the other end. How has your belief system changed around what you deserve and what's possible?

Lisa Bilyeu 14:13 Yeah, I think it starts with frame of reference. So people don't actually realize that they have a frame of reference. And just to kind of explain, frame of reference is just the way you see the world, the way you think it ought to be, not the way it necessarily is. And so my frame of reference can be very different than your frame of reference. And so take for instance the very first time I introduced Tom to my family. So I've got a very big loud Greek family, and everyone talks over each other, everyone yells at each other. And so Tom comes and meets them, and that's the family, everyone's yelling. And so we leave, and I'm like, "Oh my God, they clearly loved him 'cause they're clearly very comfortable around him, so I can't wait to hear how much he loves my family." So we get in the car, and I'm like, "Babe, what do you think?" And he's like, "They were so disrespectful." And I was like, "What?" And he's like, "I can't believe, Lisa. Everyone's just screaming and yelling at each other. They ask me a question, they don't listen." Frame of reference. My frame of reference when someone yells and screams, like, in a happy way, it's actually a, a sign of greeting you, being comfortable around you. But Tom's frame of reference is when someone's yelling, it means disrespect. So that just gives an example of what frame of reference means. So you don't actually question your frame of reference.

Jay Shetty 15:22 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 15:23 And I think that was the massive thing is I still right now to this day will now every day question my frame of reference on the way that I see things, because maybe I'm missing something. So being the stay-at-home wife, my frame of reference was, "Well, this is what a woman does. You're going to have children."

Jay Shetty 15:40 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 15:40 "You will get married." It didn't even dawn on me, Jay, that I could question whether I sh- want kids or not.

Jay Shetty 15:46 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 15:46 It didn't dawn on me. And so going from that to where I am now is because I literally will question my frame of reference every day, because it's your frame of reference that gets in the way of you doing the, having the dream.

Jay Shetty 15:59 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 15:59 How many people say, "I can't"? I remember once I was, uh, coaching somebody, and they were saying about how they're building this business, and this is a woman, she's just had a baby and she freaking loves it. She's building this business. She feels so good about herself. And her dad every day would, has a key, comes in her house, and would sit down at dinner and basically say that she was a neglectful mother. And she's like, "I don't know what to do, Lisa." And I said, "Okay. Well, he's got a key to your house. Either tell your dad that he has to behave, set boundaries, or he doesn't get the key to your house." She's like, "I can't do that." I'm like, "Yes, you can. You just don't want to."

Jay Shetty 16:34 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 16:34 Your frame of reference may be that, "I'm a terrible daughter if I take the keys away from my dad," but how is it serving you?

Jay Shetty 16:41 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 16:42 And so that I think was the massive thing that I realized, that I had a frame of reference about life, belief system, whatever you wanna call it, and sometimes it doesn't serve my dreams, my goals, and where I wanna go. And so having the self-awareness to ask myself, "Where am I, where do I wanna go? How am I gonna get there? And what belief

Lisa Bilyeu 17:03 system do I have that's either gonna propel me forward or hold me back?"

Jay Shetty 17:07 Mm. What did you do in this, in this ... I think another thing that, and I know a lot of women especially struggle with this, what had you and Tom done before the point that you could actually have the courage and confidence to go and say to him, "I love you, but I don't wanna cook and clean anymore"?

Lisa Bilyeu 17:26 Mm.

Jay Shetty 17:27 Because to me, that kind of a transition in most marriages or long-term relationships, it could look like, "I love you. I don't wanna live here anymore. I love you. I don't like this thing that you do. I love you, but ..." Whatever, right?

Lisa Bilyeu 17:46 Mm.

Jay Shetty 17:46 Fill in the blank. What had you and Tom done before that you felt confident enough to say that, that you knew it would land? Or did you actually take a risk and you didn't know at that point whether he'd react positively or negatively? Obviously, now you've been together and all the rest of it, but in that moment, did you know that he would react well to it, or did you take a risk because it was so true to you?

Lisa Bilyeu 18:07 Yeah, everything's a risk. You never know. How many times have you spoken to someone and you're like, "I know exactly what their answer's gonna be"?

Jay Shetty 18:12 [laughs]

Lisa Bilyeu 18:12 And then like or you go to Radhi, right? And you're like, "All right, ba-" And then she gives you a completely different response than you ever expected, but you still know her for so many years. So I didn't ... And there's never a guarantee, but really I went into it going, "Okay. How would I want him to talk to me about this?"

Jay Shetty 18:26 Mm-hmm.

Lisa Bilyeu 18:26 Because here's the thing: I need to be very self-aware that I'm about to make his life more difficult. So just to paint the picture, he would wake up, his clothes were next to him literally by his bed, Jay. He would put them on, he would go to the gym. He'd come back, his work clothes were ready. He'd get changed. I would hand him lunch to take to work. So he didn't have to do anything. ... in the house. So I knew I can't pretend that his life isn't gonna be worse. It is. I'm making his life more difficult. So, A, have, give him the grace that of course he's gonna have an opinion, of course it's actually gonna make his life more difficult. So give him-

Jay Shetty 18:59 Even though it's unfair-

Lisa Bilyeu 19:01 Exactly

Jay Shetty 19:01 ... for you-

Lisa Bilyeu 19:02 Yes

Jay Shetty 19:02 ... you still are being empathetic and giving grace.

Lisa Bilyeu 19:05 Of course. And even with the unfair, though, I agreed to it. It wasn't like he was, like, forcing me to do it, so that's another thing. I said yes. I also chose that life. So I had to take ownership over I chose this as well, he didn't force me to, but now I wanna make a change, so how do I do it? So giving him the grace that of course he's gonna have a feeling, and then understanding the idea of grief. Grief is where you have to let go of something, someone, something that you didn't expect. And so he had an idea of the wife that I was, because I had pl- painted that idea for eight years. So I know he's going to have to grieve the wife that I was. So giving him the space to grieve is super important. And then the last thing is almost, like, I hate to say it, but like a drug addict, where you, like, wean them off. I was like he's addicted in some way, or habitual to the fact that I would do this every day, and just like any habit, you cannot change that overnight. And so what I said to him is, "Look, here's a game plan. Maybe this will help. What if next week I'm just gonna cook and clean for you six days a week, and then the week after that I'm gonna do five days, four days, three days, right?" And so what that did was show him I was willing to work with him on the transition. And then the final piece was n- letting him know I'm not happy. "Babe, I'm profoundly unhappy. This isn't your fault. This is because I made decisions. But now I need your help," right? So I'm asking him to be a part of this. "I need your help because I'm not happy and I don't think I can do it alone." Now as my husband, he has the opportunity to be there for me. Instead of him being in his own, uh, in his own head, selfishly, like, "I can't believe" He's like, "Oh, my God, my wife is actually asking for help." So that help piece was a big deal as well. And then overall I think when you're approaching anything like this, how do you see your relationship? I think relationships are like a game of tennis. You're playing a sport. You're playing the same sport, but are you playing singles or doubles? If you're playing singles, you're both on each other's side of the net and you're just hitting the ball back and forward, and ultimately only one of you can win. And you see, Jay, I'm sure you've seen a lot of relationship where someone's just trying to q- make a little jab at them, and it's like, it literally this back and forth. It's not c- coming together. But a game of doubles, you're on the same side. You either win together or you lose together, and if I'm weak, I tell you I'm weak, and that's where you get stronger, and vice versa. So in this moment I'm saying to my husband, "I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what the future looks like, but I'm not happy. I am weak," metaphorically. "I need your help." And so he turned around, and having laid all that out, being honest with each other, that's also the foundation is, is your relationship built on honesty. Once you had that discussion, his response was, "What kind of husband would I be if I put clean underwear ahead of your happiness?" And that became the moment where he realized we were in it together, I wasn't happy, and he could help me navigate out of it. And it ca- came to that one day where he doesn't have clean underwear, Jay. I didn't do laundry for, like, a month. [laughs] And he turns around, he yells from in the other room, "Babe, I don't have any underwear." And in that moment I paused and I was like, "Oh, no, is this where the truth comes out?" And he's like, "I can't believe as my wife you don't give me clean underwear." And he turned around, he's like, "So I guess I'm going to work commando."

Jay Shetty 22:38 [laughs]

Lisa Bilyeu 22:39 And he goes to work with no underwear on. Now, what that did was, the way that I handled it, brought him in, we did it together, made that moment was like a make or break. He could've been mad. He could've been like, "See? I knew it." The resentment and contempt is, like, the two things that will identify I think by 90% guarantee that a couple won't last is if you see resentment and contempt in a relationship. And so what that would ... That is exactly what would have happened. He would've built contempt day by day that, "My wife isn't cooking for me, my wife isn't cleaning," and one silly moment, like, "I don't have underwear," could be that bro- breaking point of that relationship. But because we'd set up that foundation, that moment that could have broken us actually brought us closer together.

Jay Shetty 23:24 Yeah, I mean, that ... But that is literally an emotional maturity master class. Like, that-

Lisa Bilyeu 23:29 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 23:29 ... it's in- it's incredible that you had that emotional maturity then, and that Tom did, too.

Lisa Bilyeu 23:35 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 23:36 And obviously, you know, you, you see it in your continued success of your relationship and marriage, but I wish everyone would have a conversation [laughs] like that, because here's how it usually would go. You'd have the realization that you're not happy. You'd probably suck it up and live with it for a bit longer. Then you'd go up to him and be like, "I can't believe you've controlled me for the last eight to 10 years. I can't believe that you've dominated me. I can't believe that you've made me this submissive person, and I'm not happy."

Lisa Bilyeu 24:07 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 24:07 "And I'm never gonna cook for you again. I'm never gonna clean for you again. Do it yourself. Grow up." And you could have said it like that, and then he'd turn around and go, "Get over it. That's what you signed up for."

Lisa Bilyeu 24:19 [laughs] Yeah.

Jay Shetty 24:20 And, and I think a lot of people end up having that version of it, and it's really interesting. I, I say this to a lot of people. It's almost like when you share something, are you sharing in a way that is looking at the 360 of what you just said, like, "Well, what did I sign up for? What did they sign up for? How does this change affect them?" The change will never be seamless and smooth that, "Now that I've said it, from tomorrow everything's gonna be perfect."

Lisa Bilyeu 24:45 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 24:46 And it's incredible to me to hear the m- emotional maturity surrounding that, and I hope that everyone who's listening and watching, my compassion goes out to people who I do feel are with someone who may not Have the emotional maturity to receive it, even if it's shared-

Lisa Bilyeu 25:00 Mm

Jay Shetty 25:00 ... with the maturity that you just shared it. I think I do know a lot of people who have tried to share something similar with their partners,

Jay Shetty 25:09 and the partners will be like, "Oh, just get over it. Oh, y- you'll be fine tomorrow. Don't worry about it." Like, you know, how would you have dealt with it if that was the case? How would, how would you guide people with radical confidence? How would you deal with that?

Lisa Bilyeu 25:20 Yeah. God, that's such a great question because there's no guarantee that your partner's going to respond the same way Tom did.

Jay Shetty 25:25 Even if you dropped it perfectly-

Lisa Bilyeu 25:27 Yes, yes

Jay Shetty 25:27 ... right? Like, that's the point. I think we live in a world where we think if I say everything perfectly, then someone w- and we know that's not true.

Lisa Bilyeu 25:34 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 25:34 So let's say you dropped it perfectly, and Tom had, "It's all right, babe. Let... That's what women are meant to do. That's what a wife's meant to do. That's what..." Um, or, "That's what you signed up for. We both signed a contract. That's what it was." What would you, what would you have done?

Lisa Bilyeu 25:47 And that's really important because that's the thing is, like, was it a non-negotiable for him? Because even to where I said I originally wanted four children, and now I don't want any, that idea of, um, that non-negotiable, if he was the type of person where one of his non-negotiables were having children and having a stay-at-home wife, I actually understand that we're not meant to be together then because I don't wanna force my opinion on you. You need to live the life that you actually want, and if that life means that you really want children, you need to go and find that because we're going to make each other unhappy, no matter how much I love you. And so if Tom had turned around to me and said, "Yeah, no, that's what you signed up for," I think in that moment I would've been shocked. I wouldn't have expected it, and I would've had to go back and be, be with myself and be in silence and start to write out what my value systems are, what my morals are, and how I wanna show up every day, and then check to see if then what Tom is saying aligns with that. Because I had been going along with the flow for so long and thinking other people's opinions were mine. And so we don't really know what is our own thoughts until we are still, until we write out what we actually care about. And so our value systems happen to very much align. Our value system is, is, is I will support you even in spite of things that may make my life more uncomfortable, right? My value system is, is that you have, you are an ambitious man. I will protect you and support you in your ambition even if it makes my life more difficult. So if he's working, which is true, two years ago he was working 120 hours a week.

Jay Shetty 27:18 Two years ago?

Lisa Bilyeu 27:18 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 27:19 Wow.

Lisa Bilyeu 27:19 Like, for, like, uh, 18 months. That was very hard. And so for 18 months I was supporting him until it started to become detrimental to us, and that's where it's like support each other, know your value systems, but never let your own values diminish, your own wants and needs diminish. And that's what I did for eight years, and that's kind of what I talk about in the book about how a relationship can be literally the, the winds beneath your wind- your wings that can help propel you, right? It can, it can make you feel better about yourself as you're on that journey, but it also can be that anchor around your ankle that can, if you dropped into the ocean, would just take you deeper and deeper.

Jay Shetty 27:58 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 27:58 And so who are you with? Do they wanna see you shine? Do they want to actually see you thrive, and what are their non-negotiables? But I think ultimately if Tom had said that, I don't think we would've stayed together.

Jay Shetty 28:10 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 28:10 And that's the key 'cause when people say, "You and Tom are so lucky. You're so lucky to have someone like Tom," and I said, "No, no, no, no. I've got Tom because we communicate, and he's the person that is okay with a wife going from a stay-at-home wife to now an entrepreneur, and I'm okay with having a husband that works 100 hours or 120 hours a week." Most people aren't, and that's, there's no judgment there, but that's what makes us beautiful dance partners. And so never, I just did it too long, Jay, never, anyone listening, don't ever diminish your dreams. Don't ever, uh, um, negotiate your boundaries for somebody else. Know what they are first, and then ideally find somebody that respects and complements them.

Jay Shetty 28:53 Yeah. It's such great advice. And it, you know, and I know you mean it, and, and it's funny because I, I think I resonate strongly with that as well is that when I think about me and Radhi, it's, it's very ... We're, obviously we, we no longer have been together as long as you and Tom have, but I see a lot of similarities in how we're growing in that way, and, and your, your relationship is a beautiful example of that, like you and Tom and how long you've been together and, and all the transitions, and I, and I love seeing it. It's, it's really inspiring for us. And I think it's, it's similar for us. Like, I always ... I genuinely believe it that the reason why me and Radhi work is because we communicate and is because we're both able to respect and adapt and know what the other person needs. I think what's really interesting though, Lisa, is that a lot of the time what we want, we've gotta really think about that word because I wonder whether sometimes we've alwa- [laughs] It's so funny 'cause I'm going the other way, but we started off talking about, like, we, we all believe we deserve less, but sometimes in our relationships we can be really demanding in a way that isn't taking into account who the other person is.

Lisa Bilyeu 30:08 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 30:08 So I'll give you an example. Let's say what you wanted, and, and I know Tom, so I'm gonna speak for him a bit-

Lisa Bilyeu 30:14 Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 30:14 ... and you can edit the parts I don't get right. If you had said, "Jay, I, I'm excited to get married, and the guy I want, I want him to be someone who, um, every evening spends time with me, every weekend is free and available. I want him to think about planning a vacation four times a year or twice a year or once a year. I want him to be someone who just wants to cuddle up and watch a movie every night," even if you wanted all of that, Tom was not the right guy. Like, that's not Tom. Like, he's ... Uh, and he may be some of those things, but-

Lisa Bilyeu 30:45 Not really. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 30:46 Not really. Yeah, exactly. From, from my perception, Tom's not that guy.

Lisa Bilyeu 30:49 You guys know each other. You know him.

Jay Shetty 30:50 Yeah, yeah. I know Tom. Yeah, yeah. Like, Tom's not that guy.

Lisa Bilyeu 30:53 Mm.

Jay Shetty 30:53 And, and, and I'm not saying that makes him a good or bad-

Lisa Bilyeu 30:56 Yeah

Jay Shetty 30:56 ... I'm just saying that's not Tom, and it was similar with me and Radhi, like You know, like I, I, I think I said something ridiculous to, to Radhi when we first started dating. And I was like, "Look, if you want the guy who's always free every weekend to hang out with family, and goes to a movie on Friday night, and then goes like, I don't know, like house shop- furniture shopping on the weekend," I was like, "I'm not that guy." Like, I'm just ... That's not me. Like, I have a mission. I'm, I'm excited about stuff. Like, I'm, I'm passionate. I wanna live a purposeful life. Like, this is my priority.

Lisa Bilyeu 31:24 Mm.

Jay Shetty 31:24 And so sometimes what we want and who we're attracted to don't mesh.

Lisa Bilyeu 31:30 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:31 Like, you can be attracted to Tom for his intelligence, his brain, his looks, whatever else it is, and he can be attracted to you. But then you're like, "But wait a minute, I actually want someone who's ambitious, or not ambitious. I want someone who's this or this." And so sometimes I think we're trying to force someone to be something that they're not, and I see that a lot. I'll have a lot of friends who say to me, like, "Oh, I wish he was just a bit more ambitious." I'm like, "But he's not, and he's not suddenly gonna become that." Like, he's-

Lisa Bilyeu 31:58 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:58 ... he's, he may become that, because we can all change.

Lisa Bilyeu 32:01 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 32:01 But obviously he's not showing you that, so he is. Or someone will be like, "You know what? I wish he didn't work so hard. Like I w- you know?" And so I'm like, "But

Jay Shetty 32:08 you know his goal is to be a billionaire." Like, as in ... Do you know what I mean?

Lisa Bilyeu 32:11 Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 32:11 And, and he's dedicated to that. So I'm like, where does that want and attraction kind of go together?

Lisa Bilyeu 32:16 Yeah, I think-

Jay Shetty 32:17 Do you know what I mean?

Lisa Bilyeu 32:17 Oh, that's a, that's a great question.

Jay Shetty 32:19 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 32:19 Yeah, 'cause here's the thing, though, Jay, is that of course we want everything. Of course we do. Everyone does. So just accept that, okay, you're not gonna necessarily be able to have everything. So what's, what's the cost? So I find ambition extremely sexy and attractive, and so I'm attracted to someone that has ambition. And so what comes with that? What is the cost of being attracted to someone that has ambition? It means they're not gonna be there every night at 7:00 PM, they're not taking time off on the weekends, they're not fill in the blank. Okay, well, what's more important to you? Like, now just look at those facts and go, if you're ambitious, this is actually what comes with someone ambitious. If you want someone that is a stay-at-home, again, freaking love it, but just know that probably means they're gonna work a 9:00 to 5:00, that, that, that way they have the time to be open to then spending date night with you. But are you okay with that? What life do you want? What's more important? Like, actually almost prioritize them. And so for me, that was a very early wake-up call with Tom, where it's like, I know who I married. And so just because I've got a ring on my finger doesn't mean now all of a sudden he has to change in order to fit all the things that I'm looking for in life. I actually know that the cost of being with him is that I don't see him on a Saturday night or a Friday. And then that extends to children. When we were even talking about kids, he said, "Babe, I love you. I'm not gonna wake up in the middle of the night and clean the, the baby's diaper because I am ambitious and I will be resentful," going back to that word, "I will be resentful if I give up my ambition for my children and my wife. I won't be able to be the man that you love and you want me to be because I'm g- you are literally strip, stripping me away of the fundamental person I am." And when you can respect someone for being that honest and that transparent, I only receive it with utter gratitude, to be honest. Like, thank you for telling me before we have children what type of father you're going to be. And so he said, "I'm gonna be working really hard. I'm not gonna be coming home at 7:00 PM every night, and I'm not gonna get up with the kids because I need to make sure that my cognitive load is, like, on fire when I'm in my business. But then on the weekends, the truth is that I want to be an amazing father. And so I'm going to be, on the weekends, taking my kid to soccer practice and doing all these things." Those are the reality of who fundamentally he is and how that shows up in our relationship. Cool. Now that I know that, do I still want children? Knowing that pretty much Monday to Friday I'm a single mother. Because when people don't have these conversations, it ends up being the biggest thing that breaks that relationship, because you, you are now judging the p- I can't believe he's not waking up, and I'm, I'm left all by myself. Or did you have the discussion so that you knew, again, there's zero judgment, but you knew what the mother wants and what the father wants? And this goes both ways, right? It's not just Tom. What do I want out of life, and how do children fit into my lifestyle? But those are the things that we spoke about every step of the way so that we can always give each other the utter respect in being the person they are. Because when you strip away that, you can't bring-

Jay Shetty 35:20 Yeah

Lisa Bilyeu 35:20 ... your whole self. You know, you've written in your book about how you have to have a relationship with your purpose, your partner has to have a relationship with their purpose, and then you come together. But if you're stripping each other of their purpose, you can't have that beautiful dance and that relationship. So knowing all of those factors is exactly why I was like, "I still love you. I appreciate it. I still find this very sexy." And now the understanding is, is that he's not gonna be home in the evening. And that was actually part of what made me decide that I didn't want children.

Jay Shetty 35:52 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 35:52 Because I don't want to be a single mother Monday to Friday.

Jay Shetty 35:55 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 35:55 I freaking love my work, so I actually don't want to give that up either. I didn't want to have children and have nannies bring them up. No shame, just my decision. And then on the weekends, I'm just gonna be utterly transparent and honest with you, is that I don't want to be second or third on his priority list. When is there gonna be time for me and him if he's working all week and on the weekends he's with the children?

Jay Shetty 36:16 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 36:17 And the thing that I will protect the most is my relationship with my husband.

Jay Shetty 36:21 Mm-hmm.

Lisa Bilyeu 36:21 So knowing that, now what decisions do we make to protect our relationship?

Jay Shetty 36:27 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 36:27 And I understand people, especially with kids, will be like, "You won't know what it's like until you have kids." I bet you get that all the time, especially in your culture. The truth is, no, I don't know what it's like because I don't have them. But I, there's nothing that I'm missing or losing because I don't know what I'm missing out on. It's kind of like a dog making fun of us humans for our sense of smell. It's like their sense of smell is freaking amazing, but I don't know what it's like, so I don't look at a dog in longingness I just go, "I know my sense of smell, and it is what it is."

Jay Shetty 36:59 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 37:00 So-

Jay Shetty 37:00 [laughs]

Lisa Bilyeu 37:01 But I do treat it as fact that I bet you nature takes its course and makes sure that biologically, especially as a woman, that you then prioritize your children. So then again, asking Tom, "Are you okay with going down on my priority list when we have kids?" Because nature will make sure that that child is the center of my universe. I don't pretend otherwise. And being able to have that type of honest conversations with zero judgment, giving each other the grace to just be who they are, then allows us to say, "Do we have children? Do we still stay in this marriage?" Without that growing contempt-

Jay Shetty 37:38 Yeah

Lisa Bilyeu 37:38 ... that then ends up breaking all couples. It turns you into a person you're not proud of. You start arguing, you start saying things you don't like. You start doing things you're not proud of yourself. You're using potentially their vulnerabilities against them in arguments because you haven't had that true conversation from the get-go.

Jay Shetty 37:54 Yeah, I mean, there's so much to unpack there, and I, I, I love the first point you made, this idea of if you're attracted to something that's a non-negotiable or a priority, first of all, just draw a line as to what the cost of that is.

Lisa Bilyeu 38:08 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:08 So if you want someone ambitious, naturally they'll have less time. If you want someone who has time, naturally they'll be less ambiti- ... That's just how life works, and neither of those are good or bad. But if you go, "I want someone who's really ambitious and has loads of time," that's just not happening.

Lisa Bilyeu 38:23 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:23 And so you need to know your deal breakers, and you need to know your priorities. And I, I love the way you put that because I do think that we do want it all, and we want it all now. And when someone doesn't give it to us all, we then think it's their fault.

Lisa Bilyeu 38:37 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:38 And that's what creates this resentment and contempt because we're like, "Well, wait a minute," like, "don't you wanna work a bit more?" And it's like, no, but the thing you love about them is that they're always available.

Lisa Bilyeu 38:48 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:48 Like, I have friends who's, like, their partners will come with them with their work trip, and then they'll be like, "Oh, but then you have something to do." [laughs] And it's like, but, but you love the fact that they're always with you, and then

Jay Shetty 38:57 there's this break-

Lisa Bilyeu 38:57 Mm

Jay Shetty 38:57 ... you know, this, this break. Does that make sense?

Lisa Bilyeu 38:59 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:00 Or, or even this idea of, like, I'll have some of my friends say to me like, "Oh, y- you know, my partner's just a bit boring." And I'm like, "But you wanted someone who didn't do anything."

Lisa Bilyeu 39:10 Mm.

Jay Shetty 39:10 Like, you wanted someone who was, you know, like, didn't have interests, was always around, was always, always available, and now you're calling them boring for it. And it's like, but you've never really, you know, you've never encouraged them to, or you've never been attracted to someone who wanted to explore. It's, it's fascinating to me.

Lisa Bilyeu 39:27 Can we take it even a step further?

Jay Shetty 39:28 Yeah, please. Go for it. Yeah, go for it.

Lisa Bilyeu 39:29 All right. So think about women in the workforce now. So a lot of women are, which I freaking love, right? I wanna empower women. I think it's incredible that now we have the options to really be able to go into the workforce instead of be stay-at-home wives or mothers. But what I'm noticing is happening is a lot of, some women, I wouldn't say a lot, are really building that confidence, and I freaking like it. And I interviewed somebody, I won't say their name, but she's a really big powerhouse, and she's successful, and she's wealthy, and she had just got divorced. And so she's telling me this story about how she's like, "Yeah, I'm, I'm owning my sexuality. I'm owning who I am, and I'm a powerful woman." So she chats up this guy in a bar, and she's like, "And he became my boyfriend." He's younger than her, so he moves in with her. And she's like, "I freaking love it. No guy's ever gonna control me again." So she's... And I'm like, "Amazing. I respect that. You know what you want. You go after it." Halfway through the interview she's just like, "Yeah, and I can't believe he doesn't, like, book any vacations. He never pays for dinner. He never takes the lead on something." And I'm like, "Because you didn't set up your relationship for that to be like that."

Jay Shetty 40:34 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 40:34 And I think ultimately, this is something I'm really playing with new and that's really weighing on me, is that I think one of the things people don't ask each other, and they're worried especially in today's society, but I think it's imperative when you get into a relationship before you commit, who leads and who follows?

Jay Shetty 40:50 Mm-hmm.

Lisa Bilyeu 40:51 And the, having that actual conversation, and here's the thing. Following someone doesn't make you weaker. It doesn't make you submissive. It just has a way, think about dancing. I've brought up dancing for some reason-

Jay Shetty 41:03 [laughs]

Lisa Bilyeu 41:03 ... a lot in this conversation. I'm not quite sure why.

Jay Shetty 41:05 It's the dip. [laughs]

Lisa Bilyeu 41:05 Yeah, it's the dip. Exactly. Um, think about in dancing. You can't have two leaders. You just can't. Think about running a company. You can't have two CEOs. You have to have that moment-

Jay Shetty 41:17 That's such a great point

Lisa Bilyeu 41:17 ... you have to have that moment of who is leading and who is following. But if you can remove the stigma that maybe you have against the word follow, then you can actually have that honest conversation, and that's what Tom and I did is, "Babe, I want you to fo- uh, to lead." He wants to lead, and I want him to lead. That doesn't make me less of a powerful, confident woman. It actually makes me stronger in my eyes because I'm strong enough to know I can still be strong in my own conviction, my ideas, my boundaries, my s- standing up for myself, and I can still have faith in somebody else is going to lead me. Now of course, if he goes off step, I'm going to have the confidence to speak up. But ultimately, I'm not challenging him for that role. And in today's society, again, it's just weird to, for people-

Jay Shetty 42:05 Yeah

Lisa Bilyeu 42:05 ... to say about roles in a relationship. And I think there's no right or wrong. What do you want in your relationship? But you have to have that role discussion.

Jay Shetty 42:13 Yes.

Lisa Bilyeu 42:14 No matter what gender or person is going to take the lead, you have to have that discussion first.

Jay Shetty 42:19 Yeah, and, and one thing that Radhi and I have found is also that we lead and follow in different areas.

Lisa Bilyeu 42:25 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:25 So when it comes to our health-

Lisa Bilyeu 42:26 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 42:26 ... Radhi leads. She decides what snacks we have in the house. She decides what we eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. She decides where we go out to eat for restaurants, if we're going out. She decides what we eat when we're traveling because I trust her, that she knows more about the body than I do as a nutritionist-

Lisa Bilyeu 42:41 Mm

Jay Shetty 42:41 ... and dietician and all of her expertise. And so I'm gonna follow her. When it comes to working out, I follow her. She, she's the one who's, like, setting the pace as to, like, all right, you know, when I met her, I didn't even work out, just played a bit of sport or whatever, and she was the one saying, "No, no, no, it's really great for us to be active-

Lisa Bilyeu 42:56 Mm

Jay Shetty 42:57 ... and do this together." So she leads. When it comes to- ... our home, I lead interior design 'cause that's my thing. I love it. I love art, I love aesthetic, I love the feel, I love everything, and I get so into it. And so she let me lead. She was like, "Jay, you're in charge. Like, that's your thing."

Lisa Bilyeu 43:12 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:13 When it comes to spending time with family and vacations, she leads 'cause she loves taking care of her family and loves traveling together and giving them experiences, and so she'll lead. Then when it comes to, uh, the direction of like should we move now, should we do this, where should we invest, I'm leading that conversation. And I think it's beautiful because there's leading and following across all these different areas, and all of a sudden it's like you're both playing to your strengths, you both be- feel valuable, you both feel significant-

Lisa Bilyeu 43:41 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 43:41 ... and you both feel like you get to rely on the other person, which is beautiful, which is what you want.

Lisa Bilyeu 43:45 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:46 And I think it's... Yeah, go on.

Lisa Bilyeu 43:47 It, it go- well, it goes back to the doubles in tennis.

Jay Shetty 43:49 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 43:49 You're playing doubles.

Jay Shetty 43:50 Exactly. Exactly. Like, you take that shot, I'll take this one.

Lisa Bilyeu 43:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:54 And that's a beau- that's a beautiful analogy. And, and, and I think that that's the reality of what's helped us as well, is being humble enough to say, "You lead. You're better at this."

Lisa Bilyeu 44:06 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 44:06 And then being confident enough to say, "No, I'll take this one because that's my strength."

Lisa Bilyeu 44:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 44:11 And I think that requires so much humility and putting your ego aside, and it also requires so much self-awareness. And by the way, this isn't perfect. We're constantly playing with it.

Lisa Bilyeu 44:20 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 44:20 Like, there'll constantly be something like, "I want you to do this 'cause I don't wanna do it." She'll be like, "I don't wanna do it either," right?

Lisa Bilyeu 44:25 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 44:25 Like, there's that stuff, too.

Lisa Bilyeu 44:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 44:27 And, and then there's stuff where you're both arguing over who's gonna lead because you both wanna lead it.

Lisa Bilyeu 44:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 44:32 I think what we're both coming back down to is the importance of that conversation, because I know so many of my friends actually have been scared to tell their partners, going back to the kids thing, and this could be about anything, kids is an example, where they're not ready for kids, but their partner is so pushing for kids. And it's like no one's listening to each other now. It's just our desire is superseding the code that your partner-

Lisa Bilyeu 44:56 Mm

Jay Shetty 44:56 ... is trying to suggest to you of, "I'm not ready, I'm not sure," but your desire's just like, "No, no, no, it has to happen now. It has to happen now." And I find that to be... Like, I think I'd really... Me and Radhi kind of went through that, like before we moved to the place that we're at now, I really needed to move because we lived in a place, uh, that we were renting that I never slept well in. We had people taking stuff, like our mail would always get stolen. We'd have, there were a lot of animals that were in the floorboards. It was an old home, so you'd s- hear, like, animals rustling around. Like, it was just one of those homes where I always felt uncomfortable and anxious.

Lisa Bilyeu 45:38 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 45:38 And so I don't think I slept well for one and a half years, where I would, I would be living in fight or flight every night, thinking, "What if someone's in my house?" And that is not a comfortable feeling. And so I kept pushing her. I was like, "Radhi, I need to get out of here. I need to get out." And she, she loved that home, so she couldn't get it. She was just like, "This place is beautiful." And I'm like, "Yeah, it's beautiful during the day, but at night, trust me, I'm like really anxious here, and I'm not really an anxious sleeper. I sleep well." And so it was very new for me, and I could tell she wasn't quite getting it. And so I had to start looking for new places-

Lisa Bilyeu 46:07 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:08 ... 'cause I realized that I was like, until she sees something better-

Lisa Bilyeu 46:11 You're amazing

Jay Shetty 46:12 ... she's not gonna get the point. [laughs] And so it was literally like... And, and that's natural, right? Like, 'cause her, she was like, "I'm happy here."

Lisa Bilyeu 46:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:20 "I'm satisfied here."

Lisa Bilyeu 46:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:21 And I was like, "No, but I can't." And she wasn't getting the subtle nudges, and so I started looking, started dragging her to house viewings. We found this place.

Lisa Bilyeu 46:29 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:29 Even then she was like, "No, no, no, the other place is more beautiful," blah, blah, blah, blah.

Lisa Bilyeu 46:32 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:32 And then finally I was like, "You must be kidding me." And then we moved, and now she's grateful that we moved.

Lisa Bilyeu 46:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:38 But it was really interesting how, like, even though there was a bit of con- conflict and friction, I still knew I had to lead, but I knew I didn't have to lead by, like, trying to convince her or make her feel bad for not understanding me or... Because I could sense it wasn't that she didn't understand me or she wasn't

Jay Shetty 46:53 listening to me, or maybe there was a bit of that. We just weren't getting it-

Lisa Bilyeu 46:57 Mm

Jay Shetty 46:57 ... if that makes sense.

Lisa Bilyeu 46:58 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:58 Does that... Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 46:58 Yeah. What's interesting is I go back to the value systems.

Jay Shetty 47:01 Please.

Lisa Bilyeu 47:01 Because the value for you was, I need to s- like, the value of sleeping because of how I know how important your brain is to you in your mind and how you think and how you show up and run your business and everything like that, it actually aligns with your value system. Now, maybe, um, Radhi's value system was homemaking. I wanna be somewhere I'm comfortable. So actually both of your value systems, again, there's no right or wrong, but that's where your value system was then colliding because she feels like, "I've made a house out of this," value system. Your value's, "I'm not getting what I need. I can't work. I don't have the mindset," value system. So actually what was happening is your value systems were colliding, but you're not talking about the value, you're talking about the house.

Jay Shetty 47:41 Yes. Yes. Yes. That's brilliant.

Lisa Bilyeu 47:42 And so that becomes a, even with the kids thing, it's like, okay, well, the person that wants to delay the children, what's your value system there? I haven't gotten to where I want to in my career, and my career right now is super important. And maybe the per- the person is my value system, I've always wanted a family, and so I value family over business. So now you can see one person's valuing business over family, the other person's valuing family over business, and you're colliding, but you're not actually talking about the thing. You're just talking about the kids, but it's actually about the value system that's colliding.

Jay Shetty 48:14 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 48:14 The silly example that I learnt this lesson with Tom was m- over making the bed.

Jay Shetty 48:18 [laughs]

Lisa Bilyeu 48:20 I was like, "What do you mean you don't make the bed? Of course you make the bed." It was like the thing I was taught my whole life. And Tom was like, "No, I won't make the bed." And we would collide. I'm like, "You don't get it, and this..." And so he would get frustrated every time I would make the bed 'cause he's like, "I have to unmake the bed now." I'm like, "It takes three seconds." And I was dismissing and mocking him, if I'm gonna be very honest, thinking he was wrong, that of course you make the... What kind of person doesn't? And I was literally putting my value system on him until we started to dig, what does making the bed mean to you? And to me it was about neatness. It was about calm. I have ADHD, so I need those moments of calmness around me. I need things to be neat in order for me to be centered, but I didn't say that.

Jay Shetty 49:03 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 49:03 I just said, "I need the bed to be made." For him, his value system is time. He's like, "It's the one thing I'll never get back."

Jay Shetty 49:10 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 49:10 "And so if you ask me to do something that doesn't actually align with the vision of what I want my future to be, don't... Like, you're asking me to be someone I'm not."

Jay Shetty 49:19 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 49:19 So his value system is time. My value system is tidiness. And so you can see in just that silly thing of making the bed, we freaking collide, and how many people, couples do that every single day over small little things? And what ends up happening is that oxytocin that you had when you first started dating is no longer there, and all you have are these collisions day in, day out.

Jay Shetty 49:42 Totally. I love that. And, and I, I feel, I really hope everyone who's listening or watching, like, takes a moment to, to break this down for themselves. Like, we had it the other way around a few, couple of months ago my wife's book came out, her first cookbook.

Lisa Bilyeu 49:55 Yay, so good.

Jay Shetty 49:55 Yeah. Thank you. I know you interviewed her for it as well.

Lisa Bilyeu 49:58 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 49:58 And it was, you know, and it was just, it was a really exciting moment. Radhi had poured three years of her life into this cookbook. I saw her work hard on it. I've never seen her work that hard in my life.

Lisa Bilyeu 50:09 Mm.

Jay Shetty 50:09 Never seen her just be so consistent. You know how much work it takes. You know, look, we're sitting here talking about Radical Confidence one year on, right?

Lisa Bilyeu 50:16 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 50:17 And one year on?

Lisa Bilyeu 50:18 Two.

Jay Shetty 50:18 Two.

Lisa Bilyeu 50:18 Yeah, two. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:19 Oh my gosh, it's been two years. Yeah, two years on of Radical Confidence, and you know how much work goes into this book. I know how much you poured into this book.

Lisa Bilyeu 50:26 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 50:26 This was your first ever book. And I said to Radhi, I said to her, I said, "You know what, Radhi? Like, we've been together now for 11 years. We've celebrated a lot of things, but you've never had a book out. So I don't know how you wanna celebrate this because not every celebration's the same." Like, you don't celebrate a birthday how you celebrate an anniversary and how you celebrate Christmas.

Lisa Bilyeu 50:47 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 50:47 They're, they're different celebrations. And so I was asking and checking in with her, and I was like, "I actually don't know what you'd like to do in order to, like, make this moment feel special." And she, we were on a hike, and she just said to me, she goes, "Oh, we just celebrated last night." And I was like, "What do you mean, love? What do you..." I couldn't even remember what we did last night.

Lisa Bilyeu 51:05 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 51:05 I was like, "What do you mean we celebrated last night?" And she was like, "Yeah, like our friends came over, I cooked from the book, and they loved the meals." This was the day before the book came out. And I was like, "Wait, that was a celebration to you?" Like, it wasn't, there was no br- it wasn't like the joyful book event. There was no fancy, like, cards with f-

Lisa Bilyeu 51:25 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 51:25 It was just a c- few mates came over.

Lisa Bilyeu 51:27 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 51:27 And she cooked from the book, which I don't even know if she told anyone, and they loved it, and they loved the food, and she was like, "That felt like a celebration to me because I made food I love for people I love." And I was like, "Wow, you just saved me this grand idea I had in my head of, like, throwing a big party or, like, you know, putting the joyful banner up or whatever," which is what I would do. And I was just thinking about that, and I was like, it's so interesting to me that her value of celebration is that.

Lisa Bilyeu 51:56 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 51:56 And my value around celebration is totally different. But again, so many couples and relationships can go wrong because we're constantly either celebrating the person we love or we're criticizing the person we love based on our value system, and now all we're talking about is the criticism or the celebration and not talking about the value.

Lisa Bilyeu 52:17 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:17 And, and it's fascinating to me that it works both ways, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. 'Cause sometimes you do something, something nice for your partner, and they don't appreciate

Jay Shetty 52:24 it, and you're like, "Why don't you appreciate it?" They're like, "'Cause that's not what I appreciate."

Lisa Bilyeu 52:28 Exactly.

Jay Shetty 52:28 "It's not what I value."

Lisa Bilyeu 52:29 And I applaud you for just asking her because so many people either wouldn't ask, wouldn't do anything, or just assume, and that's, I think, where a lot of couples almost get mixed up where it's like, "Well, if, if they love me, they should know."

Jay Shetty 52:42 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 52:43 And it's like, oh, that breaks my heart. It's like, you're, they're not a mind reader. Like, like you said, we all change, we all evolve. You would have done something with the biggest heart, right? Like, "I wanna celebrate my wife," and she were looking like, "What do you mean? I don't want that."

Jay Shetty 52:57 Oh, we did that plenty of times.

Lisa Bilyeu 52:58 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:58 Plenty of times.

Lisa Bilyeu 52:58 How many times? Where, and then what happens in that moment, you feel unappreciated for having sh- tried to show up and do something amazing. She doesn't feel seen or heard. So now this whole thing, this act that you've done to try and really show her, doesn't achieve anything. You and her both feel badly. And then, again, you almost, like, look at the other person like, "You're wrong."

Jay Shetty 53:18 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 53:19 Or, "You're crazy," or, "How could you have done this?" And so the idea of just, just asking and, like, remove all the idea of what we've been taught of, like, if they love me, they should know, and just say, "Ultimately, I want them to feel what? I want them to feel loved. I want them to feel seen. Okay, how do they do that? I sometimes don't know. Let me just ask." So one of the things, actually, so I stopped being the stay-at-home wife. I stopped cooking for Tom. We laid out all of our things of how we wanna show up for each other, and we changed and grow. W- we both change and grow since then. So only last year, Tom turned around to me, and he said, "You know what, babe? Like, I feel like I have a need that's unmet right now." I was like, "Oh my God, what's the need, babe?" And he's like, "I actually now miss that you don't cook for me." Right? So we've been like 15 years, he's been fine with it.

Jay Shetty 54:06 [laughs]

Lisa Bilyeu 54:07 But instead of me judging him, he told me. I'm not supposed to guess. He just said that, and I said, "Okay, babe. What does that look like?" And he's like, "I like you to preempt my needs when it comes to food." And I said, "Okay." Instead of just leaving it at that, I was like, "Okay, can I order Postmates-

Jay Shetty 54:22 [laughs]

Lisa Bilyeu 54:23 "... then have it delivered? Would that satisfy the need?" And he's like, "Yeah, you can do..." Or, "Do I have to cook it?" He's like, "No, no, you can have Postmates." "Okay, do I need to plate it for you, or can I leave it out on the doorstep and just text you it's here?" And he's like, "Well, if you can put it on, like, my kitchen counter," like his little side, and he's like, "That way I know." I was like, "Cool. Now I've heard you. I don't have to assume. I now don't have to go straight into, 'Oh my God, he's now asking me to cook. I don't wanna cook.' I went there. I was that person. I don't wanna get trapped." No, none of that. We just broke it down bit by bit of understanding what exactly that need looks like. Now here's the other part. Maybe I'm not willing to do it. And in that moment, I just would've said, "Right now, that actually doesn't fit my lifestyle of what I need to show up."

Jay Shetty 55:09 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Lisa Bilyeu 55:09 So how do we find a compromise? Is there a compromise, or is it, "Sorry, I'm unable to do it, but what if I do it for three weeks on a, on, on a holiday," right? Now come up with ways that you're not just shutting the other person down. You're hearing their needs, and they feel heard that you're trying to find a solution.

Jay Shetty 55:27 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 55:27 Because ultimately, I think, not to just stereotype, but typically, I think women wanna feel seen, they wanna feel safe, they wanna feel needed, and they wanna feel appreciated. It's not the money. It's not the height that a lot of people are saying. They need to be six foot and earn seven figures. Blah. No, no. If you really do stop and pause and ask your partner how they can fill those roles, then you can start to actually create a beautiful relationship on the long term. And then the same for a guy. Obviously, I don't know, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, but I've tried to process what is it that I think a guy needs. They wanna feel appreciated. They wanna feel powerful, not controlling, powerful, um, and they want to be respected.

Jay Shetty 56:11 Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Lisa Bilyeu 56:12 And so knowing, okay, if that's actually what you want, I'm just gonna say it, people may hate it, but I just go to truth. How do I make you feel powerful? That's what I would ask Tom. How do I make you feel powerful? What are the things that you need? Now, again, I then go back to my value systems. I say, "Does this align with me?" But I'm not gonna guess. I wanna make sure that my husband's happy and that we're always constantly in alignment. And when you've been together for 23 years, I met him when I was 21. We've built multiple companies together, so how the hell have we been able to stay so aligned? It's these little things that people may be embarrassed

Lisa Bilyeu 56:48 to do, may be ashamed to do, or they don't wanna do it.

Jay Shetty 56:52 That's the reality. That's the reality. We want something, but we either feel guilty, shameful, embarrassed-

Lisa Bilyeu 57:01 Mm

Jay Shetty 57:01 ... or uncomfortable to ask for it.

Lisa Bilyeu 57:03 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 57:03 And then we take that feeling out on our partner-

Lisa Bilyeu 57:06 Mm

Jay Shetty 57:06 ... for not knowing it, and we get triggered when they say something like, "I wish you'd cook for me again." That triggers all of our PTSD from that time, and now it's like, "How can you even ask me to do that? You know how hard that was for me."

Lisa Bilyeu 57:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 57:19 Not realizing it's just a suggestion. It's just an idea. It's coming from a good... It, it's that space that I think we've been talking about today is can you kinda create a safe space to have these uncomfortable conversations without any shame or guilt?

Lisa Bilyeu 57:33 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 57:34 Right?

Lisa Bilyeu 57:34 And that becomes the foundation that ultimately selection matters. Who you choose to be with will absolutely dictate the outcome of your relationship. And so I used to say the key to a relationship is communication. I don't actually think it is. I think it's a growth mindset, because if you do not have a growth mindset, no matter how much I communicate, you said that earlier, right, they may not be able to respond. Now think of all the hurdles and humps that we've been through in our relationship. How have we survived those? Because we are open to having the hard conversations. We're open to communicating endlessly until we get to the solution. One of the rules, so Tom and I have a bunch of rules, one of the rules is never apologize if you don't mean it.

Jay Shetty 58:15 Mm.

Lisa Bilyeu 58:15 And even in the moment of I'm deeply upset, he c- absolutely can say, "Baby, I know if I just apologize to you right now, I know that you're gonna feel better, but I can't apologize because I'm not sorry for it."

Jay Shetty 58:28 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 58:28 And what that does is that absolutely elongates the conversation, the argument. It may go now, now for two days, three days, but ultimately we're not brushing it under the rug. We actually resolve it and go, "Okay, I'm still very hurt by it, but let me actually work through that hurt. Why am I hurt? Why was I triggered? Why did you say that?" You know, and then we just peel away the onion, peel away the onion to get to that core, but it all comes from that growth mindset, and if you don't have it, no matter how much you discuss it, you're gonna hit a wall where you cannot be seen or heard.

Jay Shetty 59:01 Absolutely. Lisa, you are amazing.

Lisa Bilyeu 59:04 Oh, Jay.

Jay Shetty 59:04 The book, everyone, is called Radical Confidence: 11 Lessons on How to Get the Relationship, Career and Life You Want. Today we did a deep dive on relationships, which I loved.

Lisa Bilyeu 59:13 We did.

Jay Shetty 59:14 Uh, but when you open up this book, you'll learn how to handle your negative voice, how you can overcome failure, how you can actually work through your emotions and understanding them. Setting your value system is a big part of this book, breaking through your beliefs, building that growth mindset is all inside this book called Radical Confidence. If you didn't get, grab a copy two years ago, make sure you grab a copy right now. Uh, if you don't already subscribe to and watch, uh, Women of Impact, make sure you go and do that as well.

Lisa Bilyeu 59:44 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 59:44 Uh, Lisa, it's always such a joy talking to you because it's so lived. Everything you share-

Lisa Bilyeu 59:49 Mm

Jay Shetty 59:49 ... is such lived experience, and I know you live by it 'cause I know you and Tom, and on top of that, it's just so real, and I love having these really pragmatic, practical conversations around topics that can be we- very ethereal-

Lisa Bilyeu 1:00:05 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:00:06 ... and uncomfortable and woo-woo and kind of a bit, like, oh, you... And, and, and to be honest, manipulative and controlling. Like, oh, if you want him to do this, do this. If you want her to... And it's almost like you actually can't get anyone to do anything.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:00:19 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:00:19 All you, all you can do is, all you can do is accept them for who they are or not, and I think when we're having these conversations, I'm, I'm really hoping that everyone walks away with an understanding of what type of quality of interaction-

Lisa Bilyeu 1:00:36 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:00:36 ... and conversation to have with the individual, and the growth mindset point is, in a relationship, is huge because adaptability and flexibility is at the core of anything long term.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:00:48 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:00:49 And I've seen that with me and Radhi too. There is just-

Lisa Bilyeu 1:00:51 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:00:51 ... there... I realize it all the time. It's things would ne- only never work if we lost our flexibility and adaptability.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:00:59 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:00:59 And that's all growth mindset. You, you have to, and it's so interesting how so often we don't wanna be flexible and adapt, when by the way, that's okay too.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:01:07 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:07 So Lisa, thank you so much for-

Lisa Bilyeu 1:01:09 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:01:09 ... for showing up as always and just shedding so much clarity on a really difficult topic.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:01:14 Thank you, Jay.

Jay Shetty 1:01:15 Yeah.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:01:15 Thank you for having me. You're, you're such a good dude. I freaking love you. I love Radhi. Like, we connected from day one, and the support and human that you are, I just wanna say thank you, like, for always being there as a friend.

Jay Shetty 1:01:31 Thank you. Always, always here for you.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:01:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:33 And anyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you tag me and Lisa on Instagram, on TikTok, on X, whatever platform you're on. In the YouTube comments, let us know what resonated with you, what stuck with you, what you're trying out with your partner or potential partner. Please pass this on to a friend, someone in a relationship who's struggling, who's going through a tough time. I really believe it will give them the tools and the resources that they need to navigate and guide them through, and of course, go and grab your copy of Radical Confidence. It's available in paperback right now. Thanks so much, everyone. Thanks, Lisa.

Lisa Bilyeu 1:02:04 Thanks, Jay.

Jay Shetty 1:02:05 If you loved this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr. Daniel Amen on how to change your life by changing your brain.

Speaker 1:02:12 If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over 1,000 convicted felons and over 100 murderers, and their brains are very damaged