Cynthia Erivo: "I Was Working To Prove That I Was Worth Loving" #1 Way To Know it's time to LEAVE!

1. 0:00 – 2:39

   Intro

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      I can tell when I walk into a room when someone wants me there or not. Terrible tendency to sort of almost shut down immediately. The Grammy, Emmy, and Tony Award-winning actor and singer you know from The Color Purple, Harriet, and Wicked.

   2. SPSpeaker0:12

      Oscar-nominated incredible actor, singer, author, and producer.

   3. SPSpeaker0:17

      Cynthia Erivo.

   4. JSJay Shetty0:19

      What is the right type of validation to crave?

   5. SPSpeaker0:21

      All of it is healthy and all of it is unhealthy. So it's lovely to hear it, but if you don't feel that way about yourself, none of the comments, none of the making someone finally fall in love with you matters.

   6. JSJay Shetty0:33

      You always felt like you didn't fit in.

   7. SPSpeaker0:34

      I had to come to terms with the fact that I don't think I'm ever going to fit in, and why would I want to?

   8. JSJay Shetty0:40

      We don't wanna let people down. We want people to be happy. We don't wanna break someone's heart, but the reality is that is how the way things go.

   9. SPSpeaker0:47

      You feel like a villain for doing it, for hurting someone. And this may be a hard thing to say, but sometimes hurting someone actually aids the growth of another person.

   10. JSJay Shetty0:58

       Have you ever been heartbroken? The number one health and wellness podcast.

   11. SPSpeaker1:04

       Jay Shetty.

   12. SPSpeaker1:05

       Jay Shetty.

   13. SPSpeaker1:06

       The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs]

   14. JSJay Shetty1:10

       You were literally just walking me through your schedule.

   15. SPSpeaker1:12

       Yes.

   16. JSJay Shetty1:13

       And I wanna start with just how your life has been a whirlwind. First of all, you shot two movies [laughs] .

   17. SPSpeaker1:19

       Yes.

   18. JSJay Shetty1:19

       Not one.

   19. SPSpeaker1:20

       Yeah.

   20. JSJay Shetty1:21

       And you were traveling the world. Obviously, we all saw the press tour, which was absolutely insane and amazing and crazy. You were performing at the Oscars. Like, you know, it's just unbelievable. And then I was asking you, like, have you even had the moment to take a break?

   21. SPSpeaker1:36

       Not, not really.

   22. JSJay Shetty1:38

       [laughs]

   23. SPSpeaker1:38

       But I've been trying to make sure that I put some time in to just sort of breathe. I went from the Oscars, the day after the Oscars, I went to South Africa and I was shooting a movie. I haven't completed the movie yet, but I'm gonna go back and finish, but I had finished that set of it, and then I went to London. But within that time, whilst I was in South Africa, I was lucky enough to have, like, just a couple of days where I didn't need to be on set. And so I would literally use those days to rest. And I don't mean going to do things and using them for my own t- Like, literally staying in bed and resting.

   24. JSJay Shetty2:14

       Mm.

   25. SPSpeaker2:14

       'Cause I hadn't done that for a really long time, and I, I realized that my, my body and my brain and my heart really needed it. So I sort of fed myself like that, just stopped for a second. What I'm trying to do, because I know it is going to ramp up again and get crazy again, even before the next movie comes out, and with this album and all of the things that are happening this year

2. 2:39 – 4:34

   Have You Had a Moment to Take a Break?

   1. SPSpeaker2:39

      alone, before the end of the year, I know it's going to get insane. So I think I'm trying to be conscious about how much rest I put in and how I put my, my schedule so I, there are times where I just, this day is going to be for rest. Actually, we don't need to do that, let's, let's move it to this day so that there's a consecutive amount of s- time to sleep.

   2. JSJay Shetty2:58

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SPSpeaker2:58

      Time to just be, 'cause I think it's important and I think it makes me a healthier person.

   4. JSJay Shetty3:03

      What do you do to keep yourself so healthy and fit and alert? Because your work's so demanding.

   5. SPSpeaker3:08

      Yeah.

   6. JSJay Shetty3:09

      Not just the travel, but we saw your performance.

   7. SPSpeaker3:12

      Yeah.

   8. JSJay Shetty3:12

      We saw the behind the scenes. We saw the audition tape. It's so physically, mentally, and emotionally challenging.

   9. SPSpeaker3:19

      Yeah.

   10. JSJay Shetty3:20

       Now, what are you doing on top of everything you just said that, to really stay-

   11. SPSpeaker3:24

       I'm really picky about how I feed myself. So it's, I take my vitamins every day, and that sounds very, very pedantic and it sounds v- like, almost like a kid, but I do take vitamins every single day. I make sure I'm eating in the right way. When I fly, and this is not, and please, all airlines, do not blame me if people stop eating the food. Please, I want you to eat if you need to. But I don't eat on planes, I bring my food with me, because I, I really need to know what I'm putting in my body, and usually when I land, I go straight to something. I don't usually get the chance to sort of stop and reset. I have to go from one thing to another almost immediately. I drink tea. I do not drink alcohol, ever, and that's just because that's how my body works. Uh, I'm a vegan. I don't really eat meat because I can't process it, and I've learnt that over the years. And so it has taken time to get to this place to where I know what is right for me. And I have good people around me, uh, who will listen to me when I say, "Actually, I think it's a good t- time to not do this today."

   12. JSJay Shetty4:23

       Mm.

   13. SPSpeaker4:23

       It's about really being practical about how you take care of yourself and what you put in your body and, and when you get rest. And I'm not always the best when it comes to rest. I have to

3. 4:34 – 6:12

   How Do You Take Care of Yourself?

   1. SPSpeaker4:34

      focus when it comes to that. I actually have to concentrate on making sure I put rest in, but I try.

   2. JSJay Shetty4:40

      Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you. Are you good at slowing down?

   3. SPSpeaker4:42

      No, I'm terrible.

   4. JSJay Shetty4:44

      Mm.

   5. SPSpeaker4:44

      I'm really bad at slowing down. And, and, but I'm good when I am slow.

   6. JSJay Shetty4:48

      [laughs]

   7. SPSpeaker4:48

      You know what I mean? You know, sometimes people get really antsy about not going somewhere when they are still. I'm good at being still when I need to be still.

   8. JSJay Shetty4:57

      Yeah.

   9. SPSpeaker4:57

      You know?

   10. JSJay Shetty4:58

       Yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker4:58

       So once I get the chance to be still, I'm, I'm not going anywhere.

   12. JSJay Shetty5:01

       Yeah.

   13. SPSpeaker5:02

       Uh, but that's also taken time. You know, I haven't always been good at being in one place and okay with not going anywhere, but now I'm really good at it because I know how valuable it is for me.

   14. JSJay Shetty5:13

       Yeah. What got you there? Because you're so right. I think a lot of us-

   15. SPSpeaker5:16

       Yeah

   16. JSJay Shetty5:16

       ... everyone will say, "It takes me three days to even-

   17. SPSpeaker5:19

       Yeah

   18. JSJay Shetty5:19

       ... switch off."

   19. SPSpeaker5:20

       Yeah.

   20. JSJay Shetty5:20

       And by the time you switch off, you're like, your vacation's over.

   21. SPSpeaker5:23

       Yeah.

   22. JSJay Shetty5:23

       And now you're going back to work.

   23. SPSpeaker5:24

       Yeah.

   24. JSJay Shetty5:24

       Like, what was it that helped you get to that space of how you just so beautifully said, "You know what? I actually now, after some work, actually feel like I can be still, and I-

   25. SPSpeaker5:33

       Yeah

   26. JSJay Shetty5:34

       ... I can be present." Like, what, what was that that got you there?

   27. SPSpeaker5:36

       I felt like I was m- missing things. I think even in this last sort of year or two, I had to figure out how to be really, really present in what was going on and what's happening, and also whilst I was shooting, I was writing this album, so it meant that I, lots of thought was happening, lots of looking back on things and m- remembering. And you can't really do that if you aren't still sometimes. When you're sat in a, in a studio and you have to write, you can't go anywhere. And so learning that practice and doing that has really sort of shone a light on the ways in which IWasn't good at being still

4. 6:12 – 8:25

   Are You Good at Slowing Down?

   1. SPSpeaker6:12

      at times, and how I was missing certain things, not really being present in the moment and enjoying what was going on. Strange enough, doing all of those red carpets and things made me, forced me to sort of be present and be with whoever I was talking to at, at that moment. So I think what I wanted to do is lean into what that felt like, uh, for elongated periods of time. And for me right now, an elongated period of time could be anything from, like, one day to three days.

   2. JSJay Shetty6:39

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker6:39

      Like, that's an elongated period of time for me. But, but it m- it means that when I do get those opportunities, I can actually be there.

   4. JSJay Shetty6:46

      Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker6:47

      Like, and be okay with doing nothing.

   6. JSJay Shetty6:50

      Yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker6:50

      Because sometimes doing nothing is doing enough.

   8. JSJay Shetty6:54

      What you're saying is so true, that I feel like if you are where your feet are-

   9. SPSpeaker6:57

      Yeah

   10. JSJay Shetty6:58

       ... then you'll always be where your feet are.

   11. SPSpeaker7:00

       Right.

   12. JSJay Shetty7:00

       And so if you're on the red carpet, and that's where you are-

   13. SPSpeaker7:03

       Be there

   14. JSJay Shetty7:04

       ... then when you're off, that's where you are. And I think a lot of us, and, and I've struggled with this in the past, and, and got so much better with it, but when we're at work, we're thinking about the vacation.

   15. SPSpeaker7:13

       Right.

   16. JSJay Shetty7:14

       And therefore, when we're on the vacation, we're thinking about work.

   17. SPSpeaker7:16

       We're thinking about work.

   18. JSJay Shetty7:16

       Because that inattention bleeds.

   19. SPSpeaker7:18

       Yeah.

   20. JSJay Shetty7:18

       And you can't say, "I wanna be attentive on vacation-"

   21. SPSpeaker7:22

       Right

   22. JSJay Shetty7:22

       ... "and I wanna be inattentive at work," because-

   23. SPSpeaker7:24

       No

   24. JSJay Shetty7:24

       ... they both feed into each other. And I love hearing about the athlete in you, though. Like, even when you were talking about food and water.

   25. SPSpeaker7:32

       Yes.

   26. JSJay Shetty7:32

       And, and you are an athlete, and so-

   27. SPSpeaker7:34

       Yeah

   28. JSJay Shetty7:34

       ... are all of us, that demand a lot from our body.

   29. SPSpeaker7:36

       Yeah.

   30. JSJay Shetty7:37

       And I had this really interesting thing that happened to me this week, where I did not go to South Africa or London.
5. 8:25 – 12:00

   Why Your Body Needs to Follow Rituals

   1. SPSpeaker8:25

      ritual. Your body needs a particular kind of ritual to keep it going. Doesn't matter where you are in the world or what you do in the w- Like, as long as there, there are th- certain things that don't change, your body will thank you for it.

   2. JSJay Shetty8:37

      Mm.

   3. SPSpeaker8:37

      You know? It doesn't matter where I am in the world, I will always have my vitamins. Like, I have, like, packets-

   4. JSJay Shetty8:41

      Me too

   5. SPSpeaker8:42

      ... [laughs] I take around with me, right? And I always have my tea. So I bring tea with me wherever I go. It's the same tea, so I'm never sort of thinking, "Oh, I have to have this," or... No, that's the tea that I have. I like Ruffles chips, so I'll always take Ruffles chips with me wherever I go. That's my sort of, like, guilty pleasure. I'm gonna have that.

   6. JSJay Shetty8:58

      Yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker8:59

      But it means that, or there's a particular protein bar. So I'm not searching for something else that doesn't aid me, actually helps me. I will always know where the gym is, so I can actually go and do my long walk or my long run. That way, there are things that are already set in place that don't take up much room.

   8. JSJay Shetty9:16

      Mm.

   9. SPSpeaker9:17

      But they do serve a really great purpose. It means that I can show up and be ready wherever I am, and when I get back home, I can always slot back in. And, like, honestly, the jet lag should be crazy, but it is not.

   10. JSJay Shetty9:31

       Yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker9:31

       I woke up this morning at, like, 7:00. My, I have, like, a little one-person, um, infrared sauna, but I also take a, I bought an infrared sauna blanket, which I take with me wherever I go.

   12. JSJay Shetty9:41

       [laughs]

   13. SPSpeaker9:42

       'Cause it means that I can also heal from the inside out, and-

   14. JSJay Shetty9:45

       Mm

   15. SPSpeaker9:45

       ... the, the wonderful thing about that is that you can get, if I can't run, then I'll get in the sauna, or I'll do both. But those things don't change.

   16. JSJay Shetty9:53

       Mm.

   17. SPSpeaker9:53

       And so if you can keep healthy habits that keep you moving and working, and the s- your system is still alive and alert, then those things should stay.

   18. JSJay Shetty10:04

       Yeah.

   19. SPSpeaker10:04

       I think sometimes we underestimate what, what it is to form good habits.

   20. JSJay Shetty10:09

       Mm.

   21. SPSpeaker10:09

       Those things really help, and they've really helped me a lot.

   22. JSJay Shetty10:13

       Yeah, and they take a long time to form.

   23. SPSpeaker10:15

       Yeah, yeah.

   24. JSJay Shetty10:16

       But once you have them, then you, like, realize the value of them.

   25. SPSpeaker10:19

       Yeah.

   26. JSJay Shetty10:19

       And then you're like, "I don't even wanna miss them-"

   27. SPSpeaker10:21

       That's right

   28. JSJay Shetty10:21

       ... "even if I don't love doing them," or even if they're hard.

   29. SPSpeaker10:24

       Yeah.

   30. JSJay Shetty10:25

       You're like, "I know I'll feel better after it."
6. 12:00 – 13:34

   Difference Between Achieving and Overachieving

   1. SPSpeaker12:00

      addressed when, when you're doing something like that.

   2. JSJay Shetty12:02

      No, that makes a lot of sense. Where does that drive come from? Where's that ambition come from? Have you always had it since day one?

   3. SPSpeaker12:08

      I think I have always had it. I think it's first came-From my mom, 'cause I think she has that sort of drive and want to achieve. She, uh, she's ... I'm raised by a single mom, and she really, I'm not entirely sure how she managed to do all the things she was able to do. This is, you know, a woman who emigrated from Nigeria when she was in her 20s, got her degree in nursing, went from nursing to being a health visitor, which is a big massive jump, owns her own home, had her own car. But we're not middle class by any means. W- working class people who didn't have very much, but my mom was always pushing to make sure that she could have and that we could have. So I think I watched and witnessed her do that on her own, and so picked that, sort of those habits, those traits up. And then I think in my teenagehood, after experiencing some traumatic things, that sort of also became a driving force, too, which is not necessarily the best thing, 'cause it can't sustain. But it's sort of like, "I'll show everybody that I can do this."

   4. JSJay Shetty13:14

      Mm.

   5. SPSpeaker13:14

      And that sort of drove a lot of it, and then it didn't sustain. Then I was like, "Actually, I really wanna do this for myself, and I love what I'm doing. And if I'm gonna do something, I want to do it to the very best of my abilities." It stopped being about what I saw my mom do, which was wonderful, and stopped being about proving to people,

7. 13:34 – 16:59

   What Drives You to be an Overachiever?

   1. SPSpeaker13:34

      and is now about like sort of like eking out the maximum amount of joy from something by doing the most I can do with it.

   2. JSJay Shetty13:44

      Mm.

   3. SPSpeaker13:45

      You know? By learning all of the details that I can about whatever it is I'm doing. How do I connect the most? And in connecting the most, it makes me be the best I, I can be.

   4. JSJay Shetty13:58

      Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker13:59

      You know what I mean?

   6. JSJay Shetty13:59

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I'm, I wanna talk about all those transitions, because they're so beautiful, and I literally was having this conversation with a friend the other day-

   7. SPSpeaker14:07

      Yeah

   8. JSJay Shetty14:07

      ... about my mom.

   9. SPSpeaker14:08

      Yeah.

   10. JSJay Shetty14:08

       And so my dad was less present.

   11. SPSpeaker14:10

       Yes.

   12. JSJay Shetty14:10

       It's not that he wasn't there, but he was less present when I was growing up.

   13. SPSpeaker14:12

       Yeah.

   14. JSJay Shetty14:13

       And so my mom was the breadwinner of the house.

   15. SPSpeaker14:15

       Yeah.

   16. JSJay Shetty14:15

       She made us breakfast in the morning.

   17. SPSpeaker14:18

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JSJay Shetty14:18

       Dropped us to school, me and my sister, made us a packed lunch, went to work, picked us up from school-

   19. SPSpeaker14:24

       Yeah

   20. JSJay Shetty14:25

       ... came home, made us dinner-

   21. SPSpeaker14:26

       Right

   22. JSJay Shetty14:27

       ... went out again to work, and came home, and I still have no idea-

   23. SPSpeaker14:31

       I don't know how they do it

   24. JSJay Shetty14:31

       ... I have no idea how she did it. And we always had a fresh dinner every day-

   25. SPSpeaker14:35

       Yeah

   26. JSJay Shetty14:35

       ... a fresh lunch every day, a fresh breakfast, never had to eat leftovers.

   27. SPSpeaker14:39

       Yeah.

   28. JSJay Shetty14:39

       She always believed that a home-cooked meal was so important.

   29. SPSpeaker14:42

       Yeah.

   30. JSJay Shetty14:42

       And I look at my mom now, and I just think like, "How did you do it?" Like, and, and I completely agree with you. My work ethic, I think, comes from watching my mom.
8. 16:59 – 18:31

   Using Childhood Trauma to Transform Your Life

   1. SPSpeaker16:59

      working from that place anymore. Maybe we're meant to be with someone for a season, and then we move on and find the person that we're meant to be with for life. I saw very clearly that we weren't growing together anymore and that we weren't right for one another anymore and that us being together would actually be to the detriment of the both of us. I've had to learn to be okay with the idea that if someone leaves, they are meant to. And if they're meant to come back, they will.

   2. JSJay Shetty17:32

      I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given, and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get three times points on travel and dining and even access to one-of-a-kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by The Club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve, trust me. Discover more at chase.com/sapphirereserve.Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, NA member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. There's a really beautiful system in, in Eastern philosophy that talks about how you can do anything from three different modes.

   3. SPSpeaker18:28

      Yeah.

   4. JSJay Shetty18:29

      So you have the mode of ignorance.

   5. SPSpeaker18:30

      Yes.

   6. JSJay Shetty18:30

      Which means

9. 18:31 – 20:17

   The Three Modes to Help You Achieve Your Goals

   1. JSJay Shetty18:31

      you're doing things out of fear and insecurity.

   2. SPSpeaker18:33

      Right.

   3. JSJay Shetty18:33

      So you're doing something because you're scared. You're doing something because ... It's not survival. It's l- it's even, like, more negatively motivated than that.

   4. SPSpeaker18:42

      Yeah, yeah.

   5. JSJay Shetty18:43

      Then the second is the mode of passion, which is what you're saying, which is, like, "I'm gonna prove someone wrong."

   6. SPSpeaker18:47

      Right.

   7. JSJay Shetty18:47

      "I'm gonna do it for a result."

   8. SPSpeaker18:49

      Yeah.

   9. JSJay Shetty18:49

      "I'm gonna do it because I wanna show people."

   10. SPSpeaker18:51

       Yeah.

   11. JSJay Shetty18:51

       "I wanna do it with that energy." And then finally, you come to love or, or duty or joy or bliss.

   12. SPSpeaker18:57

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JSJay Shetty18:57

       And it's a ladder.

   14. SPSpeaker18:59

       Yeah.

   15. JSJay Shetty18:59

       And what I love about what you're saying is you've taken-

   16. SPSpeaker19:01

       The ladder, yeah

   17. JSJay Shetty19:03

       ... steps up the ladder.

   18. SPSpeaker19:03

       Yeah.

   19. JSJay Shetty19:03

       Because I think sometimes we make ourselves feel bad, like, "Oh, if I'm doing something to prove someone wrong, I shouldn't do it."

   20. SPSpeaker19:08

       Right, right.

   21. JSJay Shetty19:09

       Because that's a bad motive, and it's ... But it's like sometimes that's the only thing that-

   22. SPSpeaker19:13

       That's the only thing that can. If that's the only motive you know, what else are you supposed to do?

   23. JSJay Shetty19:17

       Yeah, you have to use it.

   24. SPSpeaker19:17

       If you ... You have to use it. And if you use it to make good work, then you use it to make good work. And I think what we wanna make sure of when we're doing that is that at some point we're okay to allow that to be what it was and to m- move on from it, you know?

   25. JSJay Shetty19:35

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SPSpeaker19:35

       'Cause if ... And, and everyone has their own time. I had it my time, and someone else will be still working in, from that mode, and if it's still working for them, it's still working for them. But at some point they will come to a realization that, "Ooh, I don't know if this works for me anymore, and it doesn't feel as good anymore." So when you ... And it's about noticing when it doesn't feel the way you want it to feel anymore. And so what am I now searching for? Am I searching for joy? Am I searching for bliss? Am I searching for contentment? And if that's the case, then it has to come from somewhere else.

   27. JSJay Shetty20:05

       Mm.

   28. SPSpeaker20:05

       And so you seek to work in a different way.

   29. JSJay Shetty20:08

       Yeah. How do you hold your hand with such grace? Like, when you talk about these things, it feels like you've, like, held your hand through it.

   30. SPSpeaker20:14

       Yeah.
10. 20:17 – 23:56

    Missteps are the Steps We're Meant to Take

    1. JSJay Shetty20:17

       I think what we're good at doing, a- as humans-

    2. SPSpeaker20:19

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty20:19

       ... is as soon as something doesn't serve us, we're like, "Oh, I've been getting it wrong for three years. Now I'm gonna get it right." And it's like, well, no.

    4. SPSpeaker20:27

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty20:27

       That served you.

    6. SPSpeaker20:28

       Yeah.

    7. JSJay Shetty20:29

       Like, even if it wasn't sustainable-

    8. SPSpeaker20:31

       Yeah

    9. JSJay Shetty20:31

       ... as you rightly said, it served you.

    10. SPSpeaker20:33

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty20:33

        And it was important, and it mattered.

    12. SPSpeaker20:35

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty20:35

        So I think if s- what I'm saying is if someone's listening right now, and they're like, "Cynthia, you know what? I've spent the last three years-"

    14. SPSpeaker20:41

        Yeah

    15. JSJay Shetty20:41

        "... trying to prove my parents wrong."

    16. SPSpeaker20:42

        Right.

    17. JSJay Shetty20:43

        "I've spent the last five years trying to prove my ex wrong."

    18. SPSpeaker20:46

        Right.

    19. JSJay Shetty20:46

        "I've spent the last seven years trying to prove my teachers wrong-"

    20. SPSpeaker20:49

        Right

    21. JSJay Shetty20:50

        "... at school," or whatever it may be.

    22. SPSpeaker20:52

        Yeah.

    23. JSJay Shetty20:52

        "But I know it's not sustainable." Like, I hear you.

    24. SPSpeaker20:54

        Right, right.

    25. JSJay Shetty20:55

        In that place. How would you encourage people to hold their hand through that transition into rising, but not-

    26. SPSpeaker21:02

        Yeah. Sometimes I get the question, what would you give your, what-

    27. JSJay Shetty21:05

        Advice

    28. SPSpeaker21:05

        ... advice would you give your younger self? Or what would you say to your younger self if you could meet her? Or is there anything you ... And then there's three different questions. But then the, the other question is, would you change anything if you could go back? My answer is always I would never change anything, because I think that every step we take, even the things that we think are wrong turns, are the teachers. They're the, they're the way we get to where we get to. You know what I mean? If I was to change something, I don't know that I would be s- sat here in front of you. I think some of what we might think of missteps were the steps I was supposed to take. So if you're at home and you're watching this and you're thinking, "Oh, my, but I've been doing this, and I know it's not sustainable, but I, but how do I move from that?" Well, you take your time. It will come. And if that's what's, um, feeding you right now, if that's the way, if that's the thing that gets you up out of bed and gets you energized to move forward, then keep using it. And when you realize, oh, actually, maybe today I'll do it from a place of I want to cheer someone up, that is as much of, that's love as well. So it's just taking small decision, changing your mind bit by bit. And don't be so hard on yourself because you've chosen other things to encourage yourself to move forward and to do well. If you haven't hurt anyone by using the, the pain that you've been through, by using the hurt that you've been through, by using the rejection that you've experienced, by using the shame that you've experienced, and you've managed to transmute all of that into energy that makes you create positive work, well, then you've done something really good. Because technically you've given all of those people, all those things energy in the most positive way. Now you get to find a way to give yourself positive energy. So I would say pat yourself on the back for managing to do that, because it takes a lot of time and energy to do that. And be easy. That change in the way you move forward will come, because you want it to come.

    29. JSJay Shetty23:15

        Mm.

    30. SPSpeaker23:15

        The fact that you even are thinking about trying to work in a different way means that you're putting the idea that you can work in a different way into the universe and telling yourself, "We can work in a different way." And one day you'll work in a different way.
11. 23:56 – 26:16

    Choose to Live for Yourself First

    1. JSJay Shetty23:56

       controlled by them.

    2. SPSpeaker23:57

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty23:57

       You feel they still own-

    4. SPSpeaker23:59

       Own, yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty23:59

       ... your journey and you. And the moment you let go-

    6. SPSpeaker24:03

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty24:03

       ... you recognize, oh, no, I-I'm taking back my control-

    8. SPSpeaker24:07

       Yeah, yeah

    9. JSJay Shetty24:07

       ... and that I have ownership.

    10. SPSpeaker24:09

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty24:09

        And I think that's what we're all looking for in life. When you think about as humans, I was having a conversation this morning with one of my friends who's an incred- like, you know, one of the greatest therapists on the planet.

    12. SPSpeaker24:19

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty24:20

        And we're just having a, just having a friendly conversation, but we were saying, "I don't think humans even know what they want anymore."

    14. SPSpeaker24:25

        Right.

    15. JSJay Shetty24:26

        Like, we think we want happiness, but do we really?

    16. SPSpeaker24:28

        Really, yeah.

    17. JSJay Shetty24:28

        Like, is that what we're looking for?

    18. SPSpeaker24:29

        Yeah, yeah.

    19. JSJay Shetty24:29

        Or do we want validation?

    20. SPSpeaker24:31

        Yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty24:31

        Or do we want approval, or do we want love? Like, what do we want? And I think as we're talking about it right now and thinking about it, what we really want is to feel agency-

    22. SPSpeaker24:40

        Yes

    23. JSJay Shetty24:40

        ... and autonomy-

    24. SPSpeaker24:41

        Over our lives, yeah

    25. JSJay Shetty24:41

        ... and control over our lives.

    26. SPSpeaker24:43

        Yeah.

    27. JSJay Shetty24:43

        And, and not feel like we're living for someone else, and not feel like we're trying to ... Because even if you're trying to prove someone wrong, you're still living for them.

    28. SPSpeaker24:49

        Right. That's right.

    29. JSJay Shetty24:50

        And I think we wanna feel like, no, I'm living for me.

    30. SPSpeaker24:52

        Yeah. I love the, the idea that we're sort of trying to figure out what we want. Do we want happiness? Do we want gonna ... But, but actually, the idea that we're s- simply seeking agency over our lives allows us to own all of those things. So yes, we do want happiness, but maybe it's contentment. But also, we wanna have agency over the sadness that we have, so it's not because of someone else, but we, we can allow ourselves to feel something, and then we can decide when we actually wanna damp down that feeling, let it go. We can let that sort of dissipate for ourselves, because we have the agency over it. We have the agency of, over what we choose to feel happy over. Or if we are feeling grief, then it's our grief, not someone else's grief, you know? That, I mean, takes time to realize.
12. 26:16 – 29:23

    Have You Ever Felt Like You Don’t Fit In?

    1. SPSpeaker26:16

       in, and why would I want to? But I think it was, when you're young, it doesn't feel as good, because you really do want to fit. You do want to be a part of something. But I think that as I've grown and as, as I've learnt, my difference and the not feeling like I fit in has actually really helped me become who I want to be. And I think if I was the same as everybody else, you wouldn't know me, you know? And I think my not fitting has forced me to get to know myself deeply and learn about who I am and what makes me tick, and to be honest about the things that sort of, like, trigger me or don't trigger me, or the things that make me tick and the things that make, that bring me joy and the things that, like, energize me. I was talking to someone yesterday, and I, I said to them, "I s- I can sometimes tell when I walk into a room when someone wants me there or not. And my tendency, a terrible tendency, is to sort of almost shut down immediately, because I wanna be in a room where someone wants me to be in the room with them. I wanna be able to share that. And why don't we s- maybe shift that and change that, and maybe you walk in with the energy of openness and see if you can shift the energy in the room."

    2. JSJay Shetty27:30

       [laughs]

    3. SPSpeaker27:31

       "Maybe don't expect the energy when you walk in. Maybe, maybe try and change that energy when you get there." And I ha- hadn't thought of that before, and I thought, like, that's something that I maybe 10 years ago wouldn't have been open to hearing. 'Cause your, the automatic is, "Well, if they don't want me here, what's, why don't they want me here? What's wrong? Have I done something wrong?" As opposed to, maybe they've just had a bad day. [laughs]

    4. JSJay Shetty27:52

       [laughs]

    5. SPSpeaker27:52

       Maybe they woke up on the s- wrong side of the, the bed, and they just don't have the energy right now, so maybe you feed the energy into the room, and maybe that might shift things. And I think because I've started to learn, and I've been in possession of the knowledge that my difference isn't something that separates but can connect-

    6. JSJay Shetty28:15

       Wow

    7. SPSpeaker28:15

       ... maybe it means that using that difference in places allows the space to open up a little bit more, you know?

    8. JSJay Shetty28:21

       I love that. That's such a cool idea.

    9. SPSpeaker28:24

       Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty28:24

        And, and I couldn't agree with it more. It's so import- I think we do live in a world right now that's always like, "Well, they don't want me there," or, "They don't like me."

    11. SPSpeaker28:32

        Yeah, yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty28:32

        And, and we're almost just giving away our agency.

    13. SPSpeaker28:35

        Right. Right, right, right.

    14. JSJay Shetty28:36

        Because what you just said, that statement is claiming back our agency and saying-

    15. SPSpeaker28:40

        Yeah, yeah, yeah

    16. JSJay Shetty28:40

        ... "Well, yeah, they may not want me there, but I wanna be there."

    17. SPSpeaker28:42

        Yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty28:42

        "And I'm gonna walk in as if I belong."

    19. SPSpeaker28:45

        Yeah. Yeah. I didn't walk in thinking I don't want them there, so maybe if-

    20. JSJay Shetty28:48

        [laughs]

    21. SPSpeaker28:48

        ... if I let them know I want you here-

    22. JSJay Shetty28:50

        Yeah

    23. SPSpeaker28:50

        ... they'll go, "I'm wanted." So well, maybe we can share that space, you know?

    24. JSJay Shetty28:54

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker28:55

        It, it, there's ways to, to shift the conversation, shift the energy wherever you are. And, and I think us as human beings, sometimes we, we put it on the other person to do that, when actually, if you're confident enough about what you bring, you can actually shift and share yourself.

    26. JSJay Shetty29:13

        I've seen that so many times. It just, well, and I see it when I'm on the road.

    27. SPSpeaker29:17

        Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty29:17

        I see it through, I was, uh, speaking at an event on Sunday.

    29. SPSpeaker29:21

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JSJay Shetty29:22

        And

13. 29:23 – 32:29

    Focus on Sharing Positive Energy

    1. JSJay Shetty29:23

       they had, like, um, what is it like when you're on set and there's food for everyone? Like, it's this-

    2. SPSpeaker29:27

       Oh, like a sharing table, like a round table where there's a sharing, yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty29:29

       Yeah, like just like that kind of thing.

    4. SPSpeaker29:30

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty29:30

       It was, like, for all the, it was for the helpers, the volunteers-

    6. SPSpeaker29:33

       Oh, yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty29:33

       ... the speakers.

    8. SPSpeaker29:33

       Yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty29:33

       Like, everyone to just take food.

    10. SPSpeaker29:34

        Yeah, yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty29:35

        And there was this lady there, and I mentioned to her that I was plant-based.

    12. SPSpeaker29:38

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty29:38

        And I was like, "Could you just walk me through the options?"

    14. SPSpeaker29:40

        Yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty29:41

        She did it with so much enthusiasm.

    16. SPSpeaker29:43

        Yeah.

    17. JSJay Shetty29:43

        Like, I asked her just a really basic question.

    18. SPSpeaker29:45

        Yeah. [laughs]

    19. JSJay Shetty29:45

        I was, I was nice, but I wasn't ... I was just like, "Hey, how are you?" I was like, "Hey, how's it going?" Like, "I'm plant-based. Could you help me out?"

    20. SPSpeaker29:51

        Yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty29:51

        And I was fine. Like, my energy was okay.

    22. SPSpeaker29:53

        Yeah.

    23. JSJay Shetty29:53

        Like, maybe my energy was a 5.

    24. SPSpeaker29:54

        [laughs]

    25. JSJay Shetty29:55

        Like, I was neutral. It wasn't positive, and it wasn't negative.

    26. SPSpeaker29:57

        Yeah. Yeah, just easy.

    27. JSJay Shetty29:57

        It was just easy.

    28. SPSpeaker29:58

        Yeah.

    29. JSJay Shetty29:59

        And she just responded-

    30. SPSpeaker30:00

        Yeah, with such joy
14. 32:29 – 33:44

    The Frequency Illusion

    1. JSJay Shetty32:29

       ... I now see red cars everywhere.

    2. SPSpeaker32:30

       You see red cars everywhere, yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty32:31

       Or, like, if I learned a new word-

    4. SPSpeaker32:32

       Yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty32:33

       ... and now I hear everyone saying that word.

    6. SPSpeaker32:35

       Yes. [laughs]

    7. JSJay Shetty32:35

       Or whatever it may be. And so the frequency illusion is when you start to notice something-

    8. SPSpeaker32:39

       Yeah

    9. JSJay Shetty32:40

       ... you start to notice it more.

    10. SPSpeaker32:41

        Yes.

    11. JSJay Shetty32:42

        And we think that the world suddenly has more red cars-

    12. SPSpeaker32:45

        Right

    13. JSJay Shetty32:45

        ... or the world suddenly is more intellectual because they're using this word. The truth is the world hasn't changed.

    14. SPSpeaker32:50

        Yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty32:50

        You just notice it more.

    16. SPSpeaker32:51

        That's right.

    17. JSJay Shetty32:52

        And the brain is wired to do that. And what you just pointed out is that, that it's not about, this isn't positive thinking, and this is not, like, toxic positivity.

    18. SPSpeaker33:00

        No.

    19. JSJay Shetty33:00

        What it is, is whatever I notice-

    20. SPSpeaker33:02

        Yes

    21. JSJay Shetty33:03

        ... I'm gonna notice more of it.

    22. SPSpeaker33:04

        Right.

    23. JSJay Shetty33:04

        So if I only notice when people frown and people kind of, you know, push me aside-

    24. SPSpeaker33:09

        Yes, yeah

    25. JSJay Shetty33:09

        ... or people don't open the door, I'm gonna notice that more and more and more.

    26. SPSpeaker33:13

        Yeah.

    27. JSJay Shetty33:13

        But if I notice the smile on the street-

    28. SPSpeaker33:15

        Yeah

    29. JSJay Shetty33:15

        ... if I notice the nice gesture from the lunch lady-

    30. SPSpeaker33:18

        Right
15. 33:44 – 37:50

    Empower People to Own Their Confidence

    1. SPSpeaker33:44

       Yeah

    2. JSJay Shetty33:44

       ... I had my eyes closed the whole time.

    3. SPSpeaker33:47

       Mm.

    4. JSJay Shetty33:48

       And I just sat and I listened to it in order-

    5. SPSpeaker33:51

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty33:51

       ... as it was. I didn't skip.

    7. SPSpeaker33:53

       Yeah.

    8. JSJay Shetty33:53

       I didn't need to.

    9. SPSpeaker33:54

       [laughs] Thank you.

    10. JSJay Shetty33:56

        And it really was just this, it really felt like a divine experience. Like, it was very-

    11. SPSpeaker34:01

        Thank you.

    12. JSJay Shetty34:01

        I like music, and I love music, but it was very different. And it was different because it felt familiar-

    13. SPSpeaker34:06

        Yeah

    14. JSJay Shetty34:07

        ... to my soul.

    15. SPSpeaker34:07

        Yeah.

    16. JSJay Shetty34:08

        And, and that's why when I was messaging you about it last night before you were coming, I was like, it was divine, it was transcendent. Because it, it was. It just, it felt otherworldly-

    17. SPSpeaker34:17

        Yeah

    18. JSJay Shetty34:17

        ... in the experience, but then felt really familiar and human.

    19. SPSpeaker34:20

        Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty34:21

        And I've got so many questions about it, but I wanna let y- you felt, I felt like there was something you were gonna-

    21. SPSpeaker34:26

        Oh, no. I mean-

    22. JSJay Shetty34:26

        ... say after that that I wanna let you finish.

    23. SPSpeaker34:27

        Yeah, I think I knew when I was going into it that I, I wanted to make something that felt like connective tissue to who I was. And part of me was deeply petrified to write this album, just because I knew it was going to be so transparent and really human in the subjects, and just extremely truthful, but I didn't really know how else to write it.

    24. JSJay Shetty34:51

        Mm.

    25. SPSpeaker34:53

        So I just sort of had to let go and just write. And I think the otherworldliness may be in the com- composition of things, but even that was a really human experience.

    26. JSJay Shetty35:04

        Mm.

    27. SPSpeaker35:04

        It wasn't, I didn't make any vocal arrangements. There were no written, there's no written music. I would do it as I was going along, and I would know what I wanted, and then I would sort of start with a vocal pad, and I would start with a line, and that line would, I'd repeat the line, and we'd create a stack. And then over that stack, I would just create another line. And there was no leaving the booth to write what the next line was. I would sort, as a line happened, I would think of another line, and sometimes I would distract myself because the line was creating itself as I was singing the line before. And that would go on and go on and go on until there was nothing left. So for me, it really was an experience of pouring all of myself into it every single time. And I would say to my producer and, Will, who's also the engineer on it and was co-writing with me, that it was always, it always felt really emotional when I would do the vocal pads. It was, I always felt deeply connected to the music because it was the rawest form of vocalizing and making music that I could think of without any real nes- structure necessarily. I just knew the emotion that I wanted, and that's what I would then write over. A lot of these songs just started with a vocal pad and a melody. That's what would happen. Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty36:30

        Wow. Has that always been your process, or was that a new discovery?

    29. SPSpeaker36:34

        I think I've always wanted it to be my process, but I don't think until now I've been brave enough to do it that way. I've never done it like this before, and it felt so easy to do. It felt like a, a real natural way of exercising the music that I, that I had in myself. Yeah.

    30. JSJay Shetty36:50

        And what did you want people to feel throughout it? What was... You were telling me earlier about how every song, even the order and the arc-
16. 37:50 – 39:40

    Teaching Kids About Confidence and Self Love

    1. SPSpeaker37:50

       a lot of guilt for saying that, but because there... Our relationships are made of two, three, however many people are in your relationship, but it's never j- it's not o- one-sided. Relationships are made of the people that are in them, and what happens within those relationships are made of the people within them, even when you don't think they are. If you dig deep enough, you'll find that you both have responsibility in there. And so I think there was sort of like the assuming of responsibility and a- also the, the willingness to be like also your responsibility is this too. This is how I felt, felt, but also I understand that I made you feel that way. And then I wanted people to know that, that it's, in that next section, there's the discovery of something new, something passionate within yourself and with another person and how human that is. 'Cause sometimes we get very ashamed of talking about passion and desire, and I wanted to talk about that. And I think passion and desire aren't necessarily things that people associate me with, but they are also very human experiences which I have experienced as someone who's, you know, i- in her late 30s, [laughs] you know? I think it's important for people to know that that is a part of me. And that third section is about when your feet touch the ground, after all the desire and the passion and the headiness of what that can be, that when your feet touch the ground, you fall in love for real.

    2. JSJay Shetty39:21

       Mm.

    3. SPSpeaker39:21

       That it isn't just about the other person, but it really is with you as well, to fall in love again with who you are, that sometimes within our relationships we can lose ourselves a little bit. But then eventually, if you want, you can come back to yourself.

    4. JSJay Shetty39:38

       Mm.

    5. SPSpeaker39:39

       And that fourth

17. 39:40 – 45:24

    How to Show Up as Yourself

    1. SPSpeaker39:40

       section is about forgiveness, which is what this album is called.

    2. JSJay Shetty39:45

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SPSpeaker39:45

       It is about forgiving the person that you were with, the person that you were, and the person you may have become because of it, forgiving the mistakes that you might have made because they lead to this place. And I guess in the grand scheme of things, it is really about forgiving yourself-

    4. JSJay Shetty40:08

       Mm

    5. SPSpeaker40:08

       ... and allowing the fact that your human experiences are just that, the experiences we have as human beings that, that usher us through our lives. The things I've been through have made me r- really sort of like look back on how I've dealt with certain situations, and sometimes I've not necessarily been my best self, but that doesn't mean that I'm not a good human being.

    6. JSJay Shetty40:35

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SPSpeaker40:36

       And I think sometimes we mistake not being our best selves with being a bad human being, and I think sometimes we have to say that that's not the same thing.

    8. JSJay Shetty40:46

       Mm.

    9. SPSpeaker40:47

       And that we can forgive ourselves for not being our best selves because we want to be good human beings.

    10. JSJay Shetty40:53

        Even just listening to you explain that-

    11. SPSpeaker40:55

        Yeah

    12. JSJay Shetty40:56

        ... I mean, I had so many thoughts that went through my mind. I was just thinking about how it's so common for us to start hating ourselves-

    13. SPSpeaker41:04

        Yeah

    14. JSJay Shetty41:04

        ... and being harsh on ourselves-

    15. SPSpeaker41:05

        Yeah

    16. JSJay Shetty41:06

        ... when the situation's so complex.

    17. SPSpeaker41:09

        Yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty41:10

        But almost our simple answer is, "I'm the problem."

    19. SPSpeaker41:12

        Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty41:13

        It's like if someone breaks up with us, we think, "I'm the problem."

    21. SPSpeaker41:17

        Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty41:17

        "I'm the weak one."

    23. SPSpeaker41:18

        Yeah.

    24. JSJay Shetty41:19

        "It's over."

    25. SPSpeaker41:20

        Yeah.

    26. JSJay Shetty41:20

        If we choose to end something-

    27. SPSpeaker41:22

        Yeah

    28. JSJay Shetty41:23

        ... we still blame ourselves.

    29. SPSpeaker41:24

        Yeah, that's right.

    30. JSJay Shetty41:25

        If, if you're someone who's self-reflective enough-
18. 45:24 – 47:55

    Behind the Glamourous Life of Celebrities

    1. SPSpeaker45:24

       keep love to ourself. We want to give out love. We want to share love, because that only multiplies. If we keep heartbreak to ourself, it becomes something else. It mutates, metastasizes, and it, it sticks to us. And what that does is stops us from being able to... If you don't mend your heart, it can't be whole again for something else, and I'm assuming that anyone who has their heart broken wants their heart to be whole again so that they can share their heart-

    2. JSJay Shetty45:54

       Mm

    3. SPSpeaker45:54

       ... with someone else again.

    4. JSJay Shetty45:55

       Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, I love that.

    5. SPSpeaker45:57

       Right?

    6. JSJay Shetty45:58

       I love that. That really resonated, that idea of how emotions are not meant to be held onto.

    7. SPSpeaker46:04

       Right.

    8. JSJay Shetty46:05

       And the sad and the tough ones are the only ones that we-

    9. SPSpeaker46:07

       That we do, that we hold

    10. JSJay Shetty46:08

        ... hold onto tightly.

    11. SPSpeaker46:09

        Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty46:10

        And if there was someone who was feeling like, "Oh my God, there's only this much joy in the world, I'm gonna hold onto it," which we do sometimes as well.

    13. SPSpeaker46:16

        Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    14. JSJay Shetty46:17

        We're like, "Oh, no, no, I'm, I'm gonna be really scarce about joy."

    15. SPSpeaker46:19

        Right.

    16. JSJay Shetty46:20

        We know that doesn't work either.

    17. SPSpeaker46:21

        Doesn't work, yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty46:22

        Because it disappears.

    19. SPSpeaker46:23

        Right.

    20. JSJay Shetty46:23

        It goes away.

    21. SPSpeaker46:24

        Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty46:25

        And yeah, it's so interesting, that idea of why we hold on to the hard emotions-

    23. SPSpeaker46:29

        Right

    24. JSJay Shetty46:30

        ... and don't hold on to the beautiful ones.

    25. SPSpeaker46:32

        Right.

    26. JSJay Shetty46:32

        And it, it limits us, and it's... When I'm thinking about your album and that idea of what you just said, of recognizing that we can forgive ourselves for ways in which-

    27. SPSpeaker46:44

        Yeah

    28. JSJay Shetty46:44

        ... we wanna be better.

    29. SPSpeaker46:45

        Yeah.

    30. JSJay Shetty46:46

        But that doesn't make us a bad person.
19. 47:55 – 51:00

    The Power of Music

    1. SPSpeaker47:55

       to break up with someone, I saw very clearly that we weren't growing together anymore, and that we weren't right for one another anymore, and that us being together would actually be to the detriment of the both of us. If I'm in something that I'm, uh, that I'm miserable in, that I'm not happy in, then the likelihood is that is going to grow within the relationship, that I'm going to continue to be miserable, and that person is also going to experience the most miserable version of myself.And that isn't good for anyone, because I, I'm not fertile ground for happiness if I'm doing that, which means it removes the ability for the other person also to be in a relationship that's happy. And I would rather remove myself from the situation so that they can go on and find whoever it is that they're meant to be with. Because we a- we will find the people that we're meant to be with, and maybe we're meant to be with someone for a season, and then we move on and find the person that we're meant to be with for life. Or, or maybe we're meant to be with several people for a season, and that's what we're meant to do, or we're meant to learn from the people that we're with to become the people that we're supposed to be before we end up in the relationship we're supposed to end up in. And I just knew that I couldn't continue to pretend to be something I wasn't within a relationship that wasn't, it wasn't feeding me in the way I needed it to. And because of that, I knew it wasn't gonna be feeding the, the other person.

    2. JSJay Shetty49:30

       Yeah, that resonates so strongly as well.

    3. SPSpeaker49:31

       It's really hard, though.

    4. JSJay Shetty49:32

       It is. It is.

    5. SPSpeaker49:33

       You feel like such a letdown for doing it. You feel, I hate to use this word, but you feel like a villain for doing it, for hurting someone. But some- sometimes, and this may be a hard thing to say, but sometimes hurting someone actually aids the growth of another person. We, when we experience hurt, we are forced to grow. Again, it is another human emotion that we have to experience as we grow because it teaches us about what we are, how to react or how to soothe, how to use the hurt to turn it into something else, right? We're all gonna be hurt at some point in our lives. That is not something that we can prevent. We're all going to hurt someone in our lives. That's also something we cannot prevent. We are also always going to, we are all going to be hurt ourselves in general. It's not gonna s- that's something we can't prevent, and it's not something we run headlong into, but when it presents itself, we also have to be brave enough to be the people that either experience it or serve it. Not vindictively, not because we want to, but because it's sometimes necessary to begin again.

    6. JSJay Shetty50:47

       Yeah, I love what you just said there, that sometimes-

    7. SPSpeaker50:49

       Mm-hmm

    8. JSJay Shetty50:50

       ... we hurt people.

    9. SPSpeaker50:52

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JSJay Shetty50:53

        And sometimes people hurt us.

    11. SPSpeaker50:54

        Us, yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty50:55

        And then sometimes we hurt ourselves.

    13. SPSpeaker50:57

        Yes.

    14. JSJay Shetty50:58

        And all of that

20. 51:00 – 55:23

    How Do You Share Your Emotional Journey?

    1. JSJay Shetty51:00

       you can't prevent.

    2. SPSpeaker51:01

       Correct.

    3. JSJay Shetty51:02

       That's gonna happen in the natural flow of life.

    4. SPSpeaker51:04

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty51:04

       And all we can learn to do is those people that we hurt-

    6. SPSpeaker51:08

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty51:09

       ... try to help-

    8. SPSpeaker51:10

       Yeah

    9. JSJay Shetty51:10

       ... in the best way possible.

    10. SPSpeaker51:11

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty51:12

        And recognize that, like I'm thinking about it as you're talking about it, whenever I've, if I've broken up with someone-

    12. SPSpeaker51:17

        Yeah

    13. JSJay Shetty51:18

        ... there's no part of me that was excited about it-

    14. SPSpeaker51:20

        No

    15. JSJay Shetty51:20

        ... or happy about it-

    16. SPSpeaker51:21

        No

    17. JSJay Shetty51:21

        ... or felt good about it. Not only because I believe I'm a good person and want to be-

    18. SPSpeaker51:27

        Yeah

    19. JSJay Shetty51:27

        ... a good person, but because I don't like causing anyone pain.

    20. SPSpeaker51:30

        Pain, right.

    21. JSJay Shetty51:31

        But it made me, what it changed in me was it made me more responsible in the future-

    22. SPSpeaker51:37

        Yeah

    23. JSJay Shetty51:37

        ... of how I was with someone-

    24. SPSpeaker51:39

        Yeah

    25. JSJay Shetty51:39

        ... and how I conducted myself and thought about a relationship.

    26. SPSpeaker51:42

        Yeah.

    27. JSJay Shetty51:42

        When I was a teenager, probably fell too quick.

    28. SPSpeaker51:45

        Yeah. [laughs]

    29. JSJay Shetty51:45

        Probably like, you know, was-

    30. SPSpeaker51:46

        Yeah
21. 55:23 – 1:00:26

    How Do You Live Through Heartbreak?

    1. SPSpeaker55:23

       I was trying to prove to him that I was lovable. And, you know, in the beginning of this, I was, I would do my work, and, and I'd want, you know, whether it be social media, or whether it be reviews, and you want the good reviews, and you want people to say really nice things. You want people who you've never met to love you, and that is the driving force be- behind the work. And in the end, it doesn't serve you at all. It's wonderful. It's lovely to hear it, but if you don't feel that way about yourself, if you don't believe in the work you're doing, if you don't love the skin that you're in, the work that comes from you, the things that you get to say, the, the people you get to meet. If you don't love that work, none of the comments, none of the lovely compliments, none of the m- making someone finally fall in love with you matters. What it does is come to an empty shell. You have to learn how to fill up yourself because that's what fills you. That's what feels actually good. That's what actually feels good. Like, what is, what does this work, how does this work serve you in your life? Or does it serve other people? It, and I al- I also think that in doing of work, sometimes we think that it's only ... It is about us, but it's a cyclical thing, I think. If you can do the best you can do in your work, if you can really pour yourself into the work in the right way, that feels authentic to who you are, then you can actually serve that work to other people.

    2. JSJay Shetty56:57

       Yes.

    3. SPSpeaker56:57

       That you can actually be of service to other people. And I really, I talk about this when it comes to m- music, and when it comes to teaching, when it comes to singing. It's less about me getting a lo- big applause at the end of a song. That is lovely, but that couldn't matter l- less than actually looking at someone's eyes in the audience and knowing that I've connected with them, knowing that this song-

    4. JSJay Shetty57:21

       Yeah

    5. SPSpeaker57:21

       ... means the world to this person, that this song is an expression of what they also might be feeling, that my being able to sing something in a way that connects with someone else, that allows them to then process something that they've also been through. That to me is what I love. That for me is ... That's the question.

    6. JSJay Shetty57:40

       Mm.

    7. SPSpeaker57:40

       You answered that. That's actually the best validation.

    8. JSJay Shetty57:42

       Mm.

    9. SPSpeaker57:42

       It's not actually what people say. It's what I can witness someone feeling.

    10. JSJay Shetty57:47

        Mm.

    11. SPSpeaker57:47

        To me, that is the best validation, for me.

    12. JSJay Shetty57:49

        Mm.

    13. SPSpeaker57:50

        I don't have to wait for that validation. That's almost instant. It happens when I speak to someone, when I sing to someone. A, a person can't hide how they feel.

    14. JSJay Shetty57:59

        Yeah. [laughs]

    15. SPSpeaker58:00

        You know? Even though pe- we think we can, we actually ca- cannot.

    16. JSJay Shetty58:04

        Mm.

    17. SPSpeaker58:04

        It shows up in the small, minute m- movements in our body. It shows up in our faces. It shows up in how we express. It shows up in how open we are when we're speaking to a person, more than a person saying, "Oh, my God. That was amazing."

    18. JSJay Shetty58:17

        Mm.

    19. SPSpeaker58:18

        Which is lovely, but actually, I'm not necessarily seeking 100 thank yous and 100 you're, you're amazings. I'm not looking for that. I'm actually looking for how deeply can I connect with people?

    20. JSJay Shetty58:31

        Mm.

    21. SPSpeaker58:31

        How much can I make people feel? It, does this mean that someone is gonna go and figure out something in their relationships with someone? Does this mean that they're gonna finally have a conversation with that person that they haven't spoken to for years because they've been harboring a feeling that they haven't yet faced? If that is what comes of my music, my work, teaching, whatever it is, then that's the validation I want, right?

    22. JSJay Shetty58:57

        Mm.

    23. SPSpeaker58:57

        But what that lyric speaks about is the other sort, that you're sort of waiting for people to say that you're amazing. You're waiting for people to send, like, give you, like, all of the outward input that you can take. But eventually, it's this, it's that old weird thing where you see 100 lovely messages, and you see that one message that isn't great, and e- everything comes tumbling down.

    24. JSJay Shetty59:19

        Mm.

    25. SPSpeaker59:19

        Because it isn't based on anything. It, there's no foundation for it, right?

    26. JSJay Shetty59:22

        Yeah. Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker59:23

        But if you can connect with that one person, those 10 people, those 15 people in that audience, y- when their tears are falling, and you can hear it in the ... There's something really wonderful about when it's quiet, and you hear that one person go [sniffs] . You go, "Okay. That person's connected, and they, they're feeling something."

    28. JSJay Shetty59:43

        Mm.

    29. SPSpeaker59:43

        If you make people feel, then-

    30. JSJay Shetty59:46

        Oof
22. 1:00:26 – 1:05:16

    Can You Peacefully Disconnect Yourself from Someone?

    1. JSJay Shetty1:00:26

       intimacy-

    2. SPSpeaker1:00:26

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty1:00:27

       ... deeply. That's what we're seeking-

    4. SPSpeaker1:00:29

       Yep, yep

    5. JSJay Shetty1:00:29

       ... is, is intimacy.

    6. SPSpeaker1:00:30

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:00:31

       And we go to these big group gatherings to feel, and that's what music does for people, is it makes us feel intimate with the person standing next to us-

    8. SPSpeaker1:00:40

       Right

    9. JSJay Shetty1:00:40

       ... because we have a shared experience.

    10. SPSpeaker1:00:41

        There's a shared experience.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:00:42

        And I feel intimate with the person singing it because-

    12. SPSpeaker1:00:45

        Yeah

    13. JSJay Shetty1:00:45

        ... I feel a shared experience.

    14. SPSpeaker1:00:47

        That's it, yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:00:47

        And that's what we're all seeking, is this-

    16. SPSpeaker1:00:48

        Yeah

    17. JSJay Shetty1:00:48

        ... intimacy in this mass.

    18. SPSpeaker1:00:50

        Yeah.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:00:51

        We're still looking for this moment where I just caught a glimpse of even someone in the audience-

    20. SPSpeaker1:00:55

        Yeah, yeah, yeah

    21. JSJay Shetty1:00:55

        ... who both kinda know we both felt-

    22. SPSpeaker1:00:58

        Yeah

    23. JSJay Shetty1:00:58

        ... what we just heard.

    24. SPSpeaker1:00:59

        Yeah.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:00:59

        And it's really interesting to me that we've confused validation with love.

    26. SPSpeaker1:01:05

        With it, yeah.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:01:05

        We've confused attention with affection.

    28. SPSpeaker1:01:09

        Right.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:01:09

        We've confused praise with power-

    30. SPSpeaker1:01:13

        Right
23. 1:05:16 – 1:07:35

    Sometimes, It's Not About You

    1. SPSpeaker1:05:16

       So you say, "Hey, I see you, and I can see you here, and I know that you're getting the back of my head, but I'm not gonna leave you-

    2. JSJay Shetty1:05:21

       Mm

    3. SPSpeaker1:05:22

       ... out. I, I want you to be a part of this intimate experience that we're having together." And I feel like within this music, that's kind of what I want to do. Like, we're in the round, and I think a lot of people have had the back of my head.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:05:40

       [exhales] Wow.

    5. SPSpeaker1:05:40

       And a lot of people have had my sh- the back of my shoulders and the back of me, and I, I really want for this album to be like me turning around and going, "Hey, I, I s- I see you, and I want you to s- to see my heart, too, as well."

    6. JSJay Shetty1:05:54

       Mm.

    7. SPSpeaker1:05:54

       'Cause I know that there's a, a large amount of people who've seen me and my heart, but there are some people who, who don't know that part of me. And they see the pretty dresses, and they see me say nice things, and all those things, but I want them to, to get the front of me, too.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:06:08

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker1:06:09

       Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:06:10

        You did that in the album.

    11. SPSpeaker1:06:11

        Thank you.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:06:11

        Like, it comes across.

    13. SPSpeaker1:06:12

        Thank you.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:06:13

        It's, it's such a invitation.

    15. SPSpeaker1:06:15

        Yeah

    16. JSJay Shetty1:06:16

        Into that intimate space-

    17. SPSpeaker1:06:18

        Yeah

    18. JSJay Shetty1:06:18

        ... for yourself, for them.

    19. SPSpeaker1:06:19

        Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:06:19

        And that's why I think, like, people are gonna listen to this, whether they've just gone through a breakup-

    21. SPSpeaker1:06:24

        Yeah

    22. JSJay Shetty1:06:24

        ... or a divorce, they're gonna listen to this. If they're just falling in love-

    23. SPSpeaker1:06:27

        Yeah

    24. JSJay Shetty1:06:28

        ... they're gonna listen to this al-

    25. SPSpeaker1:06:29

        That's what I want.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:06:29

        Yeah, they're gonna listen to this album if they're on their own journey.

    27. SPSpeaker1:06:32

        Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:06:32

        They're gonna listen to this album with their friends. Like, I feel like it's one of those albums-

    29. SPSpeaker1:06:37

        Yeah

    30. JSJay Shetty1:06:37

        ... that you're gonna experience-
24. 1:07:35 – 1:14:20

    What is the Right Type of Validation to Crave?

    1. JSJay Shetty1:07:35

       that.

    2. SPSpeaker1:07:35

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:07:35

       People feel really abandoned.

    4. SPSpeaker1:07:37

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:07:37

       By themselves, too.

    6. SPSpeaker1:07:38

       It's also about feeling abandoned, and then taking that into everything you go into.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:07:46

       Mm.

    8. SPSpeaker1:07:47

       And so even now, sometimes, I expect people to leave. So what, the way I move, the way I work, I don't trust people quickly. I am expecting them to go away. It, it's sort of like I, if I can set myself up to know that I'm going to be abandoned, then I can't be hurt when it happens.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:08:08

       Yes.

    10. SPSpeaker1:08:09

        Right?

    11. JSJay Shetty1:08:09

        Yeah, yeah.

    12. SPSpeaker1:08:10

        And so what I've had to do over time is start to trust people, and to not tar everything with the brush of abandonment. If a person has to leave, a person has to leave. That's okay. They're not abandoning, they're simply leaving, you know? And, and that isn't to say that the experience of feeling abandoned isn't real, but it is altus- also to say that that experience of abandonment isn't always what happens. And for a really long time, I couldn't tell the difference. And so every time a friend left, or I broke up with a person, or a relationship didn't quite work, I, it felt like a, a massive, uh, moment of abandonment. It felt like the f- the floor was taken out from underneath me, and it's ta- it's taken a long time to get to a point where I can trust that that's not the case. And so what it would do is stop me from saying how I really felt in a situation, 'cause I didn't want them to go away.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:09:22

        Yeah, wow.

    14. SPSpeaker1:09:22

        You know, like, if I'm, if I'm not happy with something, then I wouldn't say, 'cause I don't want them to have a reason to leave.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:09:30

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SPSpeaker1:09:30

        You know? Or if I didn't want something, then I wouldn't say I didn't, I didn't want something, 'cause I was afraid that they would leave, right? Uh, and unfortunately, that leads sometimes to really dangerous situations, 'cause you don't speak up. And I've had to learn to be okay with the idea that if someone leaves, they are meant to, and if they're meant to come back, they will, right?

    17. JSJay Shetty1:10:00

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SPSpeaker1:10:01

        But sometimes we're very afraid to chance it. [laughs]

    19. JSJay Shetty1:10:04

        Mm.

    20. SPSpeaker1:10:05

        Or we're very afraid to let a person go. We are afraid to let a person go, and we need to be okay with letting people go. Because they have their own journey as well. We don't know what path people are walking on when they walk into our lives. We might just be a stepping stone in their path, just like stepping stones are in their life, and they might just be a stepping stone in our lives as we keep moving forward. If we're not confident or comfortable enough to let that be a stepping stone to move on to the next one-

    21. JSJay Shetty1:10:39

        Mm

    22. SPSpeaker1:10:40

        ... we won't go anywhere. We're stuck.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:10:42

        Would you say that's the hardest emotion you've ever had to face and deal with, or has there been harder?

    24. SPSpeaker1:10:47

        I think that has been, because it's shown up in many different ways for different people, for me, and I think it's always b- that's always been the root emotion that makes other emotions amplified. Feeling abandoned makes hurt feel a lot bigger than it, than it should, or feeling abandoned makes loss feel bigger than that. So it's like silly things, like if a friend, if I call a friend, and I don't ... This has happened before. A friend of mine, and it was just their process. She would call, or I would call. She would pick up. We would have the most amazing con- like conversation. We would have, like the connection would be right back where we were before, and it would be lovely. And then I would call maybe a month later, and I would, she wouldn't pick up, or, and I wouldn't s- see her for another month or two, and I would take it so personally. For me, it would be like, "She's left me again." But actually that was just her process. Sometimes she would go and sort of shield herself and grow herself back and put herself back together, and then she would appear again. And I had to learn that that is just the way she exists, and I had to be okay with her way of existing. And once I learnt that that's her way of existing, it meant that I could welcome her with open arms, and I wouldn't be so upset when she was gone, that I knew that she was just putting herself back together again, and I could just send a little message of, "How are you?" and, "I'm thinking of you," and, "I'm gonna call you in a couple of weeks. And if you're around, I'm-"Okay, for a chat and not expect anything, so that when something did come back, it was joyous. It was really wonderful

    25. JSJay Shetty1:12:31

        Mm-hmm

    26. SPSpeaker1:12:32

        When that feeling of abandonment was the, the, the main focus, it felt really bad when she went away. And it's the sa- and it had been the same in different relationships. That when they had decided that they wanted to move on or when they ... It, it just felt like such a wound, and that is, that is not sustainable. You can't live like that. You can't live believing that everyone is abandoning you, because it makes for a really lonely existence. It means that you build up a wall f- of protection to stop yourself from really being connected to anyone.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:13:19

        Yeah, even if you're surrounded by loads of people.

    28. SPSpeaker1:13:21

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:13:22

        You know, you've been dedicated to your art for so many years, and I feel like Wicked was like this global phenomenon.

    30. SPSpeaker1:13:29

        Yeah. [laughs]
25. 1:14:20 – 1:21:13

    The Core of Being a Good Person

    1. SPSpeaker1:14:20

       who have spoken to me about either, um, women who have suffered cancer and have been through chemotherapy and lost their hair and said, "And, and I'm not ill. I'm, my hair is a choice. I, I shaved it first because of the, the film, and then I loved what it did to me. It meant that I really could just see my face and me." And we know that there's a, always a massive conversation around hair and what it does and how long a h- someone's hair is or how smooth or how straight or whatever that is or how curly, whatever. And I had made a choice to not have it at all. And the amount of women who have suffered alopecia, suffered, have been through cancer and survived but h- now have to wear wigs or don't wear wigs or have been, uh, sort of shy about going without, have reached out and been like, "I saw you rocking no hair, and now I feel really confident about walking around with no hair and being bald, and I feel really strong about it." And that's been a huge eye-opener, that there are so many people who feel like they don't belong, but seeing one person who's very different from the norm and, you know, rocks what they rock and are who they are sort of put out a little bit of permission to, to also be who you are.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:15:37

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker1:15:38

       And, and I think that, for me, was a, a real crux of this. There are so many people trying to just discover themselves, and they just need to see it on someone else to also decide, oh, I can just be.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:15:53

       Mm.

    5. SPSpeaker1:15:53

       That's been wonderful. The amount of eyes on you is really new. For me, it's, I'm s- still adjusting to it. And while I have, I'm really grateful for the platform that has been given to me because of it, it's still a new thing. It's new to, to be heard all the time. It's new to, to be seen all the time. It's new to see, [laughs] you know, walk through an airport thinking that you're anonymous and, and not be anonymous at all. [laughs]

    6. JSJay Shetty1:16:24

       [laughs]

    7. SPSpeaker1:16:24

       You know what I mean? Even when you have no makeup on and it's, like, who you are, and that's a norm for me, to walk through an airport, no makeup, no nothing, sort of hat on, just, like, ready to go, but not be recognized. But when you are recognized, it's a new, that's very new for me. It's also really wonderful because people are so excited by it and so excited by these characters and so excited by the people who play the characters. That's also new. Before, I could play a character, and they would recognize the character but not necessarily recognize me from, from the character. Now people know me and the character-

    8. JSJay Shetty1:16:58

       Mm

    9. SPSpeaker1:16:59

       ... which is a new thing also, that they are able to separate the person, Elphaba, who I played, and me, Cynthia. That's also a new thing.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:17:10

        Yeah.

    11. SPSpeaker1:17:11

        Which is lovely because it means that I, I guess I've made an impression as me as well as an impression as the character.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:17:19

        Mm.

    13. SPSpeaker1:17:19

        Which is really lovely.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:17:20

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker1:17:20

        It's nice to be able to, it's nice that people have welcomed me into their homes. Yeah. [laughs]

    16. JSJay Shetty1:17:24

        Yeah. Oh, I love that. Well, well, I, I think Radhi sent you that little clip-

    17. SPSpeaker1:17:28

        Yeah

    18. JSJay Shetty1:17:28

        ... of my niece calls me Elphaba, and she thinks she's Glinda. And she just made this up.

    19. SPSpeaker1:17:34

        Oh, my God. [laughs]

    20. JSJay Shetty1:17:35

        And so literally every voice note to me, she calls me Elphaba.

    21. SPSpeaker1:17:38

        That's so sweet.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:17:38

        And now I'm Elphaba to her. And so when, when Radhi told her that we know the real Elphaba-

    23. SPSpeaker1:17:43

        Yeah

    24. JSJay Shetty1:17:43

        ... she just couldn't believe it.

    25. SPSpeaker1:17:44

        [laughs]

    26. JSJay Shetty1:17:44

        And you know, it's, but it's one of those things of, like, just it meant so much.

    27. SPSpeaker1:17:49

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:17:49

        Like, I feel like you and Ariana, like, meant so much more than a movie-

    29. SPSpeaker1:17:54

        Mm-hmm, yeah

    30. JSJay Shetty1:17:54

        ... to people.
26. 1:21:13 – 1:25:10

    The Experience of Abandonment Isn't Always Your Reality

    1. SPSpeaker1:21:13

       decompressing and, you know, letting her go, and putting myself back together in front of people. That's what was happening. And then we were having to talk about our characters and talk about the experience, and it was only a month or two [laughs] away, and that's sort of how it was. And then y- because we're having these constant conversations, we're also relearning and remembering, and figuring things out, lea- learning new things. There were things that I didn't know that she was experiencing that I learnt on the spot, and there were things that I was experiencing that she was learning on the spot, and the things that our director was experiencing that we had just realized. So we were learning new things in real time in front of everybody, but we weren't pretending that it was-

    2. JSJay Shetty1:21:55

       Mm

    3. SPSpeaker1:21:55

       ... old hat to us.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:21:56

       Mm.

    5. SPSpeaker1:21:56

       We were realizing, "Oh my God, I didn't kn- I didn't know that. That's a new thing to, to learn."

    6. JSJay Shetty1:22:01

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker1:22:01

       I think hopefully we'll make people do that more. When you're in this sort of business, and I was p- speaking to someone about this, the, the tendency is to put up the wall and try to protect yourself. And actually, the most wonderful thing you can give anyone who's watching is, is a little bit of yourself. Uh, and the revelation that it is a human experience, all of the things that it looks fancy when you're running around and you're in the pretty dresses, but when you're on a set, it's as human and as real as you can possibly make it. You're up early, you're exhausted every day, the makeup is coming on and off, and you- there's someone, you know, you're meeting loads of different people who you've only met for the first time on day one, and then you've got to perform that next day. It's a very vulnerable, op- like, very open experience, and you have to sort of learn to get used to that quite quickly. And then once you are used to that, you then make family with people, and you're, you get to know everyone's tells, and you get to know everyone's sort of like the way people tick. Or, "She's really tired today, I'm gonna bring her a cookie. She likes ch- chocolate chip cookies, and I know that will make her happy." Or, "He actually is vegan, so he'll only have the double chocolate," which is, you know, "And he loves Raisin' Oat, and that's his favorite thing, but don't put butter in it because he actually really doesn't like th-" You know, you start to learn-

    8. JSJay Shetty1:23:18

       Yeah

    9. SPSpeaker1:23:18

       ... what people like. She likes to eat at 12, but he likes to eat at 2. Uh, he's tired judging by, you know, how fast he's working, but actually she's had a great morning 'cause she's really quick. Or she's quite shy, so go to her, speak to her quietly. Or, the, you learn people.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:23:33

        Yeah.

    11. SPSpeaker1:23:33

        And then you have to let them go.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:23:34

        [exhales sharply]

    13. SPSpeaker1:23:35

        You have to, you actually have to say goodbye. So that's a really human experience once you come off a set. And I think when you promote something, when you're on the road and you're talking about that experience, you do yourself and everyone else a service by making people understand just how human the experience is.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:23:57

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    15. SPSpeaker1:23:57

        So that, that people understand that it isn't just moving pictures, and we aren't just people you sort of cut and splice together. On that day, this person might have been having a terrible day, but yet they did this. And that day, she was in complete pain in this harness that she'd been in for 12 hours, but she was still able to sing that. And on this day, she [laughs] you know, even though she has an allergy to whatever, she still moved through it because that was happening. You know, everyone is trying to create something, create art.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:24:28

        Yeah.

    17. SPSpeaker1:24:29

        And we're not doing it from the comfort of our homes and our sofas.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:24:34

        Yeah.

    19. SPSpeaker1:24:34

        We're really on the ground, in the dirt, moving through it. And then we come together to share it. That really is what being on the road is about, sharing the experience. And I think-We kind of knew that almost automatically, and I think it's something that I will take with me for the rest of my life, not just for this next movie, but for everything I do. To make it a re-human experience is-

    20. JSJay Shetty1:24:56

        Yeah

    21. SPSpeaker1:24:57

        ... a gift.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:24:58

        I remember I've, I've traveled so much with my clients and been on set-

    23. SPSpeaker1:25:01

        Mm-hmm

    24. JSJay Shetty1:25:01

        ... and been in trailers-

    25. SPSpeaker1:25:02

        Mm-hmm

    26. JSJay Shetty1:25:02

        ... from coaching someone or working with someone, and I couldn't believe how not glamorous-

    27. SPSpeaker1:25:08

        Oh, my God. [laughs]

    28. JSJay Shetty1:25:08

        ... film sets are.

27. 1:25:10 – 1:29:19

    Which Emotion is the Hardest to Face?

    1. JSJay Shetty1:25:10

       They're just not at all. And it's so interesting because no one ever sees that.

    2. SPSpeaker1:25:14

       No.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:25:15

       You only see the finished product, and then you see the red carpet.

    4. SPSpeaker1:25:17

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:25:18

       And so you assume actors have a really, like, glamorous life.

    6. SPSpeaker1:25:22

       Yeah.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:25:23

       And actually, for four months, or for projects like yours, for years-

    8. SPSpeaker1:25:26

       [laughs]

    9. JSJay Shetty1:25:27

       ... you're sitting in a tiny little trailer-

    10. SPSpeaker1:25:29

        Yeah

    11. JSJay Shetty1:25:30

        ... uh, you know, putting on your clothes, taking them off-

    12. SPSpeaker1:25:32

        Yeah. [laughs]

    13. JSJay Shetty1:25:32

        ... looking at lines, like, whatever, makeup, whatever it is.

    14. SPSpeaker1:25:35

        Yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:25:35

        You go on set, you wait for three hours.

    16. SPSpeaker1:25:37

        Yeah.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:25:37

        You don't know when you're going back out. It's cold. It's-

    18. SPSpeaker1:25:39

        Yeah

    19. JSJay Shetty1:25:39

        ... you know, it- it's so interesting how what you see and what you think-

    20. SPSpeaker1:25:44

        Yeah

    21. JSJay Shetty1:25:44

        ... are two-

    22. SPSpeaker1:25:45

        Very different

    23. JSJay Shetty1:25:45

        ... totally different things.

    24. SPSpeaker1:25:46

        Yeah.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:25:47

        And it dehumanizes people.

    26. SPSpeaker1:25:48

        Yeah.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:25:49

        And, and so there's, there's such a need for that. And I don't think I could ever be friends with anyone who likes oatmeal raisin cookies, so-

    28. SPSpeaker1:25:56

        But listen, if-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:25:56

        I'm just pointing out, I'm just ...

    30. SPSpeaker1:25:57

        If they're made in the right way-

Episode duration: 1:29:19