DHAR MANN: This is How You Turn Your Setbacks into Your GREATEST Advantage

1. 0:00 – 3:01

   Intro

   1. DMDhar Mann0:00

      Failure is not the opposite of success. That is actually a part of success.

   2. JSJay Shetty0:07

      You didn't go to business school, you didn't have a business you were inheriting, and you didn't have someone say, "Dhar, here's a million dollars. Go and start a business." Where did you learn business skills?

   3. DMDhar Mann0:17

      There's a five-step process that if you follow, I promise you, you will be successful.

   4. JSJay Shetty0:23

      [upbeat music] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and most healed. Today's guest is one of my dearest friends, someone I've known for quite a few years now, and I can't believe this is his first time on the podcast. Dhar Mann is one of the most watched digital storytellers in the world, reaching billions with videos that turn simple stories into powerful life lessons. Dhar has achieved so much success in his career. He's been named as one of the biggest creators by Forbes. Please welcome to the show my dear friend and insane creator, Dhar Mann.

   5. DMDhar Mann1:04

      [laughs]

   6. JSJay Shetty1:04

      Dhar, it is great to have you here.

   7. DMDhar Mann1:06

      It's such an honor, Jay. I really appreciate it. It's been a long time coming, and, uh, I'm so glad that it's happening now because we've gotten, what, seven, eight years of building this amazing friendship together.

   8. JSJay Shetty1:17

      One of the things I knew when I started my career was that I never wanted to be lonely on the journey, and I feel like there are certain people, and we have a lot of mutual friends that we've all connected with, that we're all in the industry. We all wanna see each other win. We all wanna support each other. We wanna give each other advice and guidance and give each other insights where and when we can. And I'm really grateful to you for, as a friend as well, is that watching your success, which we will dive into today, watching your story unfold and the incredible businesses you've built, we'll get into today. Dhar, I wanna start off with a question because I know a little bit about you. You've told me your story and, uh, I wanna dive into it for the audience. Tell me about a childhood memory that you have that defines who you are today.

   9. DMDhar Mann2:01

      You know what's interesting is that as I think back upon my childhood, I actually can't remember a lot of it. As I look back now as an adult, I realize that's because I created this emotional detachment, uh, because of all the struggles and pain that I went through as a kid. It was a tough childhood. I grew up around, you know, constant yelling and arguing and violence that I try to block a lot of it out. And it's hard because as a child, so much of your perspective in life is shaped by your parents, right? As a child, you think that whatever your parents tell you is the truth, is, you know, how you're supposed to see the world. And then it's not until you get older that can you actually start to realize that my parents are also flawed human beings, that they don't always know what's right and what's wrong. You know, my parents had just come from India

2. 3:01 – 5:36

   The Hidden Cost of Childhood Pain

   1. DMDhar Mann3:01

      to America, and they came with $6 in their pocket. My dad, you know, didn't even get, finish like a equivalent of a high school education, so he was just trying to figure everything out in life in America, in this world where they didn't even speak English, and they made a lot of mistakes in the process. And that's the toughest thing as a child when, especially when you grow up thinking that your parents are your hero, to have to now all of a sudden start to see, you know, all of the mistakes that they made. And took a long time for me to have to try to unlearn some of the things that I was taught, and also to try to heal from them. But at the same time, I'm so grateful for the tough childhood that I had, because now I have the opportunity as a father to show up for my daughters in a way to be the parent that I never had as a child. And that means so much to me, because my goal as a parent is not to try to be perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect parent, but my goal is to give them so much love and support that my daughters don't have to spend their adult life trying to overcome the traumas that they received as children. But, you know, I'm just at a place in my life where I believe that everything that happens is for a reason, and I try to see the positive from it.

   2. JSJay Shetty4:26

      It's super powerful to hear that, to think about how you're parenting differently because of how you were parented. And I know that when you say that, we actually share a lot, and we've had dinners where we've talked about this, that we share a lot of history and how we were raised and what we came up through. And of course, both of us are Indian, although you grew up in the States and I grew up in London. I've always joked that I had three options growing up, which was to be a doctor, a lawyer, or a failure. What did you think you were gonna be, or what did you expect from yourself when you were growing up as a young man?

   3. DMDhar Mann4:59

      When I was growing up, I just wanted to be accepted. I just wanted to fit in. I just wanted to find a community. So when I was eight years old, I actually had a turban, and as you can imagine, as being like the only Indian at my elementary school wearing a turban, I was often made fun of. I was bullied. It wasn't in like today's environment where there's a lot more awareness. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen today, but it was a really hard time. And so I grew up just feeling like I never fit into the American community. But at the same time, if you're Indian and you follow the Sikh faith,

3. 5:36 – 8:47

   Growing Up Desperate to Belong

   1. DMDhar Mann5:36

      um, or, you know, any sort of religion, you know that there's different aspects or there's different levels of people that follow the faith. And so the time that I would be in an American school, I had never felt like I quite fit in. But also the opposite happened. When I would go to our temple on Sundays, uh, because I may not be as religious or I didn't wear a certain amount of garments or because I didn't pray as many times in a day, I also felt like I wasn't good enough for that community. So for a long time in my life, I just felt like I was too Indian for the Americans and I was too American for the Indians, so I fell in some place in the middle. I remember spending a lot of high school just trying to find-... people that I could have lunch with. Every day, that was my biggest anxiety, is I didn't wanna have lunch alone. And my school was very racially segregated, so you know, everyone from each culture kind of ate at their own table. And I just found myself as this outcast, and so there were a lot of days that I would eat lunch inside of the bathroom because I didn't want anyone to know that I had no one to sit with. And as I got to my junior and senior years, I actually would start having lunch with my teachers because I connected with them more. I, for a long time, chased that feeling of belonging and feeling of community that I never quite got. And again, just kinda looking back as to how I look back at my life and realize that everything happens for a reason. Now, today, because I was seeking to build that community and didn't have one, I was able to build one of the largest communities in the world of other people that also felt like they didn't really belong at some time in their life.

   2. JSJay Shetty7:22

      Yeah. It's, it's incredible how the stories you tell now are so wired by the messaging of what you experienced. Even if it may not be just the South Asian American story, you're appealing to so many young people around the world who are feeling othered, who are feeling like they don't belong, who are feeling like they're bullied, who are feeling like they don't connect, they don't know where they fit in. And it really is this incredible pain-to-purpose story, which sounds cliché, but when you actually hear your story back, you're like, "Oh, wow, no, that's true." Like, you're literally telling stories that are helping people who are going through what you were going through all those years ago. When was the first time you actually felt in your whole life that you did belong? I wonder if you even feel that now.

   3. DMDhar Mann8:08

      Very recently, I have started to feel like I belong. You know, there's different aspects of belonging, right? First is sort of on the professional side of things, as a creator, as an entrepreneur, and being successful. And I'm very grateful to have received a certain level of validation that has come from my consistency in doing things that have made me feel like, okay, I belong. As much as I could try to convince myself of that before, I would never have been able to until I reached a certain level of success objectively. And I think that's important for anyone that's, like, struggling with self-confidence. What I

4. 8:47 – 11:17

   The Real Meaning of Belonging

   1. DMDhar Mann8:47

      would say is the repetition and the consistency, and eventually the success follows. That's when you start to build that self-confidence, and that continues to propel as you go further into what you do, right? Like today, you have interviewed the biggest guests, so whoever... I don't even know which is the biggest celebrity that you've not interviewed. Maybe Beyoncé, The Rock. I don't know if you've interviewed these guests yet. [laughs] I'm sure they're coming. You would not be nervous about that because you've already put in all these repetitions, right? And have interviewed all these other guests and built that self-confidence in yourself. And so I would say professionally, I have felt more recently like I've belonged because of the practice and the effort, and that all comes from all the failures of, like, trying to figure it out. But I would say the other part of belonging, and the more important one that I realize now as I get into my 40s and my perspective has changed, especially as a father, is just realizing that you actually don't have to belong. You know, we're actually born to stand out, and the people that really support you and love you, they're gonna be there no matter what. And so what I always remember is if I have nobody else in this world, I have my daughters, and as long as I have a tight relationship with them and I'm showing up to be the father that I wanna be, I'll always feel like I belong.

   2. JSJay Shetty10:16

      Yeah. Such a great answer. What was the first business you ever started?

   3. DMDhar Mann10:20

      Oh my gosh.

   4. JSJay Shetty10:20

      And not even like a, not even-- It may not even be an official-

   5. DMDhar Mann10:23

      Yeah

   6. JSJay Shetty10:23

      ... business. I mean, like, what was your first hustle? 'Cause I think about it, like, I used to buy jackets of these streetwear brands from outside of England and then sell them to people in England. And so I'd order, like, Avirex jackets and Shop jackets. These were brands that I remember people in my area loved having, and I'd always find them early and then sell them. And I was doing this when I was, like, 15 years old at school.

   7. DMDhar Mann10:48

      Yeah.

   8. JSJay Shetty10:48

      And that was, like, my first kind of entrepreneurial venture. I was obviously, I was delivering paper- papers before that. What was your first job? What was your first business?

   9. DMDhar Mann10:56

      Yeah. Well, you had a lot more foresight than I did. [laughs] Mine, uh, wasn't as calculated. I probably started my first business venture, quote-unquote, when I was in fifth grade, 10 years old, and I would just set up little stands where I would sell baseball cards. Uh, so you know, I'd make, like, a couple bucks. I've done everything from, like, selling lemonade to selling... I don't know if you remember

5. 11:17 – 16:05

   The Hustle That Started It All

   1. DMDhar Mann11:17

      when the CD burners came out.

   2. JSJay Shetty11:19

      Yeah.

   3. DMDhar Mann11:19

      And it was really popular to be able to, uh, now have custom soundtracks on CDs. So I was the guy, because a lot of people couldn't afford CD burners, so I was the guy that for 10 bucks you could say, like, what your favorite songs were. I'd put them on a CD, and I'd even learn how to, like, print custom artwork, and I'd put it, like, on the sleeve so you could have this, like, really cool jewel case. And then as I got older, you know, in college, I would say, like, my first real business was I was trying to find, um, a place to live. And at that time, this is pre-Craigslist, this is pre, you know, all the tools that exist today online. And so the only way to find places to live was, like, you'd have to go to the local bulletin boards. And it was really hard because bulletin boards were messy. Your flyers would get taken down. Uh, like a lot of times, uh, they just weren't maintained properly. Um, soAt a certain point, I found a two-bedroom apartment, and I needed a roommate. I didn't know anyone that wanted a... that was looking for an apartment, so I decided that I was gonna put flyers all around these bulletin boards. I woke up super early. There was probably, like, thirty, forty bulletin boards all around campus. I posted these flyers, and then I went home, showered, came back, like, later in the day as a student, and I realized half my flyers were, like, torn down. [laughs]

   4. JSJay Shetty12:37

      [laughs]

   5. DMDhar Mann12:37

      Ha- half of them were just, like, they fell off the bulletin board. I was like, "Man, this is a real struggle trying to be able to reach people." So I started this business called Davis Marketing Services, where basically I would help businesses that were trying to reach students post flyers [laughs] on bulletin boards, and that continued to evolve. I set up, like, a sales team that was commission only. I worked with a local sorority that would do my distribution, that would go and, like, post all the flyers. I hired a graphic designer that would create really cool art, and I started getting clients, like apartment buildings, that would say, "Hey, help us fill our housing." Um, and I started making money that way. You know, I probably had, like, a five-person team by the time I was, like, 19 years old or so-

   6. JSJay Shetty13:21

      [laughs]

   7. DMDhar Mann13:21

      ... which was cool. And then after that, I got into real estate, and I started what now is sort of known as, like, a boiler room or, like, a call center. Uh, and I probably at the peak of it had, like, 40 students working for me, where they would just call people and ask if they were interested in refinancing their home or s- uh, selling their home. Uh, I became a real estate broker pretty early on, and so that was, like, at the peak, right before the 2008 real estate crash. I got the front page of, like, our student newspaper, uh, highlighting, like, the business that I built. We got to three offices, and yeah, it was pretty cool. I even bought, like, a Lamborghini when I was 21 years old. I bought two houses, uh, as investment properties. The hard part about that is life is gonna give you certain levels of validation even if you're on the wrong path, right? Even if I'm doing things for the wrong intentions, success could still blind you because you're receiving a certain level of validation. Maybe you're receiving a certain amount of money or people that are around you, whether they're good influences or not, are saying, "Hey, great job," and they're all sort of benefiting from, like, what is happening anyway. But ultimately, if you do things for the wrong reasons, it's never gonna work out, and I had to learn that the hard way multiple times in my life. So I spent a lot of my life in my late teens, early 20s just misdirected, trying to chase money over meaning, and that led me to a lot of bad short-term decisions that ultimately I had to come later in life to realize weren't the right way of doing things. And that's why I'm such a believer in second chances, in self-growth. That's why I started my whole studio to say that you can make mistakes. You can get everything wrong in life, hit rock bottom, and completely change your life and become someone entirely new. That's what I did with my life, and that's what I try to inspire others in knowing that they can also do the same.

   8. JSJay Shetty15:24

      You didn't go to business school, you didn't have a business you were inheriting from your family, and you didn't have someone say, "Dhar, here's a million dollars. Go and start a business." Where did you learn business skills?

   9. DMDhar Mann15:36

      I was always just really motivated with a lot of big dreams, and I was never scared to try and fail. Because what I realized is I was working retail, like, in my late teen years. Like, my very first job was at Gap, and then I worked at Macy's for a little bit, and when I was thinking about starting my own business, I just realized, like, "Hey, okay, what if it doesn't work out? What if you fail?" Okay, then that means you just go on and get a job just like everybody

6. 16:05 – 18:57

   What Failure Teaches You That Success Never Will

   1. DMDhar Mann16:05

      else. Trial by failure, right? How did you become a great public speaker? It kind of goes back to our conversation that you had to probably mess up a lot of times on stage to be able to have the confidence that you have, right? How does anyone become a great athlete? You miss a lot of shots before you actually score. The hard part about business is, let's say in baseball, you hit one out of three balls and get on base, you're an all-star player. But in business, [laughs] right, it feels like so much pressure if you lose or your business fails or your idea doesn't work out because we're worried about everybody's judgment on us. We're worrying about failing in public. But the thing is, is even if you fail nine times in a row and you succeed that tenth time, the thing that people are gonna remember you for is that tenth time that you actually succeeded.

   2. JSJay Shetty17:00

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   3. DMDhar Mann18:24

      You know, when I think back about putting out my first video, I had those same thoughts of self-doubt. And keep in mind, I started putting out content in my 30s. A lot of times, you know, people that are a little bit older might think, "Oh, I missed my window because I see a lot of creators that are teens or in their early 20s," right? I didn't start my journey until my mid-30s. And when I was recording my very first video, I was stuck, you know, feeling that level of paralysis where, "Hey, what are people gonna think? What if

7. 18:57 – 26:07

   Fear of Failing in Public

   1. DMDhar Mann18:57

      people laugh at me? What if no one watches the videos?" And what got me over that hurdle was remembering that even if one person watched my videos and it made a difference, a positive impact in their life, then that's a reason for me to keep going. And I put out that video for that one person. And it was also a good thing I had that realization because there was probably only about one person [laughs] that was watching my videos in the beginning, and it was my mother-in-law. Like, Laura's mom was so good at, like, liking and sharing my videos to all of her network. Uh, and for a long time, you know, I wasn't getting any views. Then I kept at it, right? I kept switching formats. My whole content was about not giving up after failure because I was somebody who just found myself having failed so many times in my life that I wanted to inspire people that even if you have failed, you can keep going. So as my content wasn't taking off the way that I wanted to, as it was failing, I wanted to give up myself, but because my messaging was to not give up, I had to keep going. That inadvertently became my own motivation. And so I kept trying new formats, new types of stories. Um, eventually, I landed on asking friends and family members to be actors in videos. Everything was shot in my small little studio apartment, um, on iPhones. And one of the very first videos that ended up going viral was a video that honored housewives because I realized that housewives, especially at that time, there was not a lot of content that made it obvious as to how hard it is to be a stay-at-home mom. And so I created this storyline about a mom who has this to-do list, and she wakes up in the morning. She has to get her kid ready. She has to get herself ready. She makes lunch. She takes her kid to school. She comes back. She cleans the entire place. She's doing all this work, and then, um, she's making her husband's favorite lunch for when he comes back. And right before he comes home, the child makes a complete mess out of the house once again. So the husband comes home, and he looks around, and he's clearly upset. And the wife goes like, "What's wrong, honey? Do you not like it? I made your favorite dish." And he goes, "I like it, but what did you do all day? Were you just sitting around doing nothing?" And you could tell she was completely heartbroken by that response, and she walks off in tears. And so the husband is upset and, you know, feels like his wife doesn't appreciate him because of his hard work, and he's the only one doing hard work. He goes and he finds the notebook of her to-do list and sees all the different things that she had to do that day. And at the very end, it was make dinner for the person that I love. And he instantly felt this guilt, realizing how much she actually did, but he didn't see it. And what was so special about that video for me, it was the very first one to ever go viral, but what was so special was not just the amount of views. Yes, that video went on to get 250 million views. But what was more important to me were the comments. There were so many women that said, "This video helped me feel seen. This video helped me feel like being a housewife or a, a stay-at-home mom is appreciated." And on the flip of it, there were so many husbands in the comments saying, "Wow, I decided to bring my wife flowers today to let her know how much she's appreciated. I'm gonna start to tell her how much I love her, and I see the hard work that she's doing." So I started seeing the actual change that happened in the world. So what I would say is if you are looking to create content, if you are looking to start a business, if you're looking to do anything that is worthwhile, start with your why. Start with your purpose. And if your purpose is to try to help people, which I hope it is, as you and I can both relate to, no one wants to start something to make the world a worse place, right? We all wanna s- make the world a better place because of what we have contributed to it. Then just remember, even if one person is able to be better off because of what you have done, then it's worthwhile pursuing. My very first comment on a video, do you know what it was? It was one of my quote-unquote "friends" that said, "Who do you think you are, Tony Robbins?"

   2. JSJay Shetty23:42

      [laughs]

   3. DMDhar Mann23:43

      And that hurt so bad because I was like, "Oh my gosh, who do I think I am?" But then I also realized that that video is not for him.

   4. JSJay Shetty23:52

      That's such a great story, man. I, I love the reframe of putting yourself out there, being cringey, being awkward, being uncomfortable because it may help one person. I, I love that reframe because one of my friends recently started making food contentAnd she was telling me, she was like, "Oh gosh, any time I put out a video, I just feel so awkward and cringe." But the thing that keeps her going is someone who messages her and says, "I made your recipe for my daughter tonight, and she loved it." Or like-

   5. DMDhar Mann24:19

      Yeah

   6. JSJay Shetty24:20

      ... "I made this for my husband tonight or my wife tonight, and they loved it." That is what keeps us going. And I think when you get lost in the views and the numbers and the digits, you lose that love. And I think that happens even in the astronomical numbers. We've both experienced insane numbers, and if you don't look at the comments with those insane numbers, you stop being fulfilled because the numbers don't last for that long. Like, they can eventually get ... You can get used to them as well, but it's that comment, it's that DM that makes all the difference. If people start making content like that, now talk to me about what makes the shift where, like, okay, you were putting it out. It was making one person happy, your mother-in-law, and that video you just told me about was your personal story with Laura, where you were ungrateful to her, right? That's what it was.

   7. DMDhar Mann25:07

      [laughs]

   8. JSJay Shetty25:07

      [laughs] That was ... I'll, I'll get the ... I'll, I'll ask Laura later.

   9. DMDhar Mann25:10

      [laughs]

   10. JSJay Shetty25:10

       That to-do list of, like, all these things that Dhar doesn't-

   11. DMDhar Mann25:13

       No, this was at a time where she was not a mom yet.

   12. JSJay Shetty25:16

       Okay. Okay, fine.

   13. DMDhar Mann25:17

       Um, but yeah.

   14. JSJay Shetty25:18

       But talk to me about the difference between I'm making videos. It's making one person happy. I'm doing it for the right reason. I'm doing it for a mission. But hey, I need to get better at this. Like, I need to understand how to connect with more people because if I'm gonna make this my livelihood and actually have a team ... I know you have a huge team. You have incredible studios now. Like, what it's grown to is a real machine. And I think this is something I wanna make people aware of, that you can do what you love, but if you want it to last and you want it to sustain and you want it to grow, it is gonna have to become more effective, organized, and machine-like to some degree. Talk to me about how you tested and what you did as a business person in order to go from, "I wanna make a difference in the world. One person is happy, but actually we need to reach more people if I'm gonna make this real."

   15. DMDhar Mann26:05

       There's a five-step

8. 26:07 – 27:25

   The 5-Step Formula for Success

   1. DMDhar Mann26:07

      process that anyone who's looking to be a successful creator or even to own a business or be an entrepreneur, that if you follow this five-step process, I promise you, you will be successful. To make it on brand, right, I came up with an acronym as to what this five-step process is. So the five-step process is called HEART, H-E-A-R-T. Step one is H, honor your story. You can easily follow trends, but instead tell your truth. We were talking about this earlier, that there are so many people that wanna be creators out there. There are so many businesses out there. It could feel overwhelming. If you have a goal right now, that's probably in the back of your mind. There's already so many people. How am I gonna stand out? But there is only one you. There is only one person that has lived the life that you have lived and is able to tell your story. So start by honoring your story, and I'll tell you a quick example. There is this friend that I have. She's from Colombia, and

9. 27:25 – 32:35

   Owning Your Story (Even When It’s Messy)

   1. DMDhar Mann27:25

      she has this thick accent. She's always wanted to be in media, and so when she came to America, she was working as a news broadcaster, but she would be given a hard time by the producer because the producer would say, "You're not pronouncing certain words right. That's not how it's said," and would constantly make her feel insecure and criticize her because of her accent. Eventually, she got fired from that job because of her accent. So she decided instead of giving up on her dream of becoming a content creator, that she wasn't gonna let any producer control her destiny. So she decides to start a YouTube channel, and naturally, she just got fired from her job. She's insecure about her accent. She's trying to sound more American, right, because of that. But she's putting out videos, and she's speaking in her authentic voice, creating whatever the type of content that she was creating. And ironically, the reason that her content succeeded is because of her accent. There were so many people that also had an accent that looked at that and said, "I can relate to this person because they sound like me." So take the thing that makes you unique and make that your superpower.

   2. JSJay Shetty28:51

      Let's talk about that one for a second because I, I really do like that one, and I think that's why I've noticed, especially in short-form content, the incredible rise in people just sitting in their car. It's so intimate and personal, and you're so in someone's life, and I've heard people just ramble. Like, sometimes someone just rambling, like, I think there's a lot to be said for people are like, "I'm not a good public speaker. I'm not well-spoken." Some of my favorite videos are just watching someone vent in the car because it just feels so real, and I feel like I'm in the car with you, and I'm feel like I'm your friend. And then there are some people who are more polished, who are more clean about what they wanna say, are more clear about what they wanna say. And I think I love the part of honoring your story and who you are and where you come from because that's all you have anyway. Like, you can't ... Like, she couldn't change her accent. This person can't change where they live or what they're doing. You are gonna have to put yourself out there, and I love the idea of just being really clear about not thinking you have to be more or less polished, more or less professional. Some people I love because they're not professional in how they put out videos-

   3. DMDhar Mann29:53

      Yeah

   4. JSJay Shetty29:53

      ... at all.

   5. DMDhar Mann29:54

      Yeah.

   6. JSJay Shetty29:54

      And there are some people I love because they're so professional.

   7. DMDhar Mann29:57

      Right.

   8. JSJay Shetty29:57

      And then there's some people who I love because they're really fashionable, and there are some people I love because they don't care. And it's like that is what's so fascinating about the point you're making is that we don't all follow one type of person. You might follow someone who's just always put together, and then you love following someone who's always a mess. It's not like this, it's not like there's one person in the world that everyone thinks we should all follow and that we don't wanna follow other people who do it differently.

   9. DMDhar Mann30:22

      It's the hardest thing in the worldTo actually believe this and take a chance on this. But the things that you are most insecure about are actually what makes you the most relatable and makes you the easiest to connect with others. Your greatest struggle is actually your greatest superpower. And I'll give another example because we both have a mutual friend, Jamie Kern Lima, the founder of It Cosmetics. She started her career also in media, and she was always ashamed or made to feel, uh, bad about herself because of different skin issues that she had.

   10. JSJay Shetty31:05

       Yeah, rosacea.

   11. DMDhar Mann31:05

       She had rosacea, and she could never find a product in the marketplace that actually worked for her. So eventually, she decided to create her own product. She turned her biggest struggle into her biggest superpower and eventually sold her brand to L'Oréal for one billion dollars. So think about those areas in your life that you feel you're actually trying to hide from, and those actually might be the things that take you to success and grow you into having the biggest audience of people that are experiencing something very similar to what you're going through.

   12. JSJay Shetty31:46

       I love that. All right, what's E?

   13. DMDhar Mann31:47

       The second step is E, earn your audience's trust. It's easy to get somebody to watch a video one time. But if you're gonna build a sustainable career as a creator, you have to get them to keep coming back. And how are they gonna keep coming back is if they trust you. And the only way to get your audience to trust you is if you know who your audience is. What are they like? What do they feel? What drives them emotionally? What do they connect with? What are things that they're struggling? If you help your audience become seen, they'll want to come back and watch your videos over and over again. So the number one comment that I get with our stories, because we tell stories that have very diverse characters. This was in a time where, you know, Hollywood traditionally

10. 32:35 – 41:42

    How to Make People Actually Trust You

    1. DMDhar Mann32:35

       has been mainly white. And when I started creating content, I created content with people in the videos that looked just like me. I mean, I'm Indian, my wife is Hispanic. Our team is very diverse. So those are the types of people that we put in our videos, and it represented all types of people. And all the storylines from the beginning came from my own life experience of failure. And because other people could relate to what I had been through or experienced similar types of hardships, they said, "I see myself in your content," and that's what was able to connect with them. And so similarly, we were just talking about this actually before we started the podcast. You have so many people that wanna come on your podcast. And sure, maybe you know it's gonna get a lot of views because they might be a controversial person. And as we know in today's environment, if you say things that are controversial, you'll probably get a lot of views. But you made the decision that your platform, your brand, your mission stands for something. It's who you are. So you have made certain decisions to not platform someone that might have gotten you a lot of short-term success, but because you believe in your long-term success, and more importantly, because you wouldn't ever wanna disappoint your audience. So everything you do, you need to think about earning your audience's trust if you wanna build a sustainable career as a creator.

    2. JSJay Shetty34:04

       What do people do when they feel like everyone's watching, and then now no one's watching, and everyone's watching, and no one's watching? Like, you almost feel like you're trying to earn your audience's trust. You thought they'd be interested in this, but now they're not, and you're feeling disheartened by the fact that, God, the last video got like a million views. This video got like 10,000 views. The next video, or let's not even talk about that astronomical. My first video got 1,000 likes. I felt really good. My second video got 100 likes. What do you do when you feel like it's flip-flopping? What are you doing wrong? What are you not understanding?

    3. DMDhar Mann34:36

       I think when it comes to pivoting, right? In business, in life, there's gonna be a lot of times where something is working and it no longer is. So how do you know when is the right time to actually switch your strategy? Because what is the common advice? Don't give up. Keep going. Guess what? I peddle this advice too. But there is a point in time where, hey, you might want to go do something else.

    4. JSJay Shetty35:03

       Yeah.

    5. DMDhar Mann35:03

       And there's three reasons I would say that you ever want to pivot. Number one is when your inner goals no longer align with the outer outcome. And what I mean by that is your purpose is no longer aligned with what you're doing on a daily basis. And a lot of times we might feel that when you're trying to become successful and it's not working, that's when you probably need to pivot. I know just as many people that are actually very successful at something, but they're successful at doing something that no longer serves their mission or fulfills their why. And that's the hardest thing in the world, to take something that is already successful and decide that I'm no longer gonna do this because it no longer aligns with who I am. But if you don't make that decision, it's always gonna end badly. So if you're ever feeling like you no longer are aligned with your purpose, that's the first reason to shift.

    6. JSJay Shetty36:13

       Mm-hmm.

    7. DMDhar Mann36:13

       The second reason is when the market has changed or the audience has changed. We keep wanting to put out the same thing because it's worked one time or it's worked for many years. But at certain points in time, trends change. The algorithm changes.Desires, public interests, whatever it is changes. And so we have to be able to face the hard truths of reality, and those will often get you to try new things. There's this great book called Who Moved My Cheese?

    8. JSJay Shetty36:46

       Yeah, yeah. Great book.

    9. DMDhar Mann36:47

       Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty36:47

        Yeah, yeah.

    11. DMDhar Mann36:47

        And it's basically about mice trying to go to the same place that they've always found cheese, and then as an experiment, that cheese gets moved to a new location. There's a certain group of mice that keep going back to that same place that that cheese was not found, and they keep going again and again, and they never give up. And then there's another group that after a couple times where they realize the cheese wasn't there, they actually go a different path and start looking at different areas. The ones that were able to move on the quickest were actually the mice that survived the longest. So if the cheese in your industry has been moved, you have to be able to, to see that.

    12. JSJay Shetty37:24

        Yeah.

    13. DMDhar Mann37:24

        The third thing I would say is if you are not pivoting, is it because you are worried and not facing the truth about reality? Because it is scary. It is so scary when something has worked for so long, and the idea to now all of a sudden have to do something new that you've never done before. But the longer you stay stuck in that place, the longer it's gonna take for you to find that new way of success. So just ask yourself, are you not pivoting because you think the data is wrong, or is it because you're in denial? And if you're in denial, then you have to face that s- that hard truth that it's time to make a change. And I will say there's always greatness on the other side of that mountain. I know it sounds scary. Anyone listening to this right now, you are at a place in your life right now that if you look back five years ago, you're probably at a better place, and that's because you embraced certain hard changes that might have felt scary at first, but you made those decisions to get to where you are today. So don't doubt your ability to overcome whatever new environments and changes that are gonna be there for whatever this new chapter of your, in your life is gonna bring.

    14. JSJay Shetty38:49

        By the way, thank you for being so systematic. This is why I love Dhar, 'cause Dhar has a system and a methodology for everything. And, and those three points help so much, and one of the ways I practically applied that in my company from day one was what I call the 70/30 rule, which was that 70% of our content would always be what we know works, and 30% would always be trial and error. And so we were okay if 30% of our posts absolutely tanked and didn't work because the one that did work would become the next phase of the 70%. And we've seen that time and time and time again. You will see us trialing new formats and trialing new types of content all the time, but that's 30% of our output because that 30% will become the future 70%. The mistake we make is you do 100% of what works, and when it ends, you don't know what's gonna work, and now you have to go 100% in trial, and then you'll have 90% failure, and that gets really, really scary. And so these points that you just shared are huge, and that's been one of the ways that we've implemented it. I even saw in the early days, like I saw a lot of my peers in the space when I started, which was actually just 10 years ago, 2016, Jan this year. I saw a lot of my peers become one-platform people, and I saw a lot of people become like a YouTuber. At that time, I was a Facebooker through and through, like that's where I made content. And I saw people, like I saw peers of mine or even actually even people before me, hindsight, the OGs, who literally paid off their parents' mortgage because of how much money they made on YouTube, and then the next year couldn't pay their own rent.

    15. DMDhar Mann40:25

        They were living with their parents. [laughs]

    16. JSJay Shetty40:27

        They were living with their parents. And I-

    17. DMDhar Mann40:27

        "I gotta pay that house I bought you I gotta move into now." [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty40:30

        Totally.

    19. DMDhar Mann40:30

        Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty40:30

        And I was so heartbroken. I was watching that, and I was like, "God, that's scary." And I noticed that you couldn't be bound to a platform. So even though one platform was killing it for me, we were always building multiple platforms and multiple businesses off the back of that because you couldn't rely. And so everything you're saying are practical things that even in my life, even though I didn't have that methodology-

    21. DMDhar Mann40:51

        Yeah

    22. JSJay Shetty40:51

        ... you just laid out, those were the practical ways we were doing it. Let's go to A.

    23. DMDhar Mann40:55

        The third step is A, architect a system. What you're describing right now is a framework for success. The goal shouldn't be to create a piece of content. The goal should be to create a company or a content machine. It doesn't matter even if you wanna be a one-person practitioner or if you wanna have a 5,000-person team and become the next Disney, the goal should always be to think about content as creating a company. And what I mean by that is you have certain systems in place. You have certain methodologies. You have ways of testing new content and also super serving the content that is working. And so for us, you know, we have processes when it comes to how do we green-light content, how does something flow from script all the way to screen, and all the different processes that are involved in between.

11. 41:42 – 49:39

    The Systems That Actually Build Success

    1. DMDhar Mann41:43

       We have a great team that's always leveling up and learning new skills that we've empowered in order to make sure that the content has continuity. Because I know so many people that have gone viral once, and that should never be the goal. Because if you have the company infrastructure underneath and all of these systems and processes that make sure that you can keep putting out new content every single week or new products or whatever your goal is, that's what's gonna ultimately lead you to long-term success.

    2. JSJay Shetty42:13

       There's one more thing you reminded me of that I loved. We did this years ago. We used to do something that I learned called the bored test. And so what we would do is we'd watch a video or we'd watch a podcast as a group, as a team, and people would start putting up their hands as soon as they got bored.

    3. DMDhar Mann42:31

       Mm.

    4. JSJay Shetty42:31

       And it was almost like when you watch America's Got Talent and someone presses the buzzer, and the person has to keep performing until everyone puts their buzzer out. And it was amazing because we got to see every moment in which it was like, "God, this podcast got boring at 30 seconds. What are we gonna do at 30 seconds to help people feel connected?" Or, "This video got boring at three minutes, 17 seconds. What are we gonna add there to keep attention?" And it was these systems that allowed us to create engaging content, and I think people don't realizeHow much engineering and how much thought and how much intentionality goes into serving a great piece of content. When you look at the best TV shows you love, when you look at the best movies that you're fixated on, it's because someone has obsessed over every single line in that script and every single visual and angle that you see. You're not just watching it because it happened to capture your attention. And I think we almost have this false belief that like, oh, when you make art, it just works.

    5. DMDhar Mann43:29

       Right.

    6. JSJay Shetty43:29

       And I'm like, "Mm, I'm not sure about that." It's, it's as much an art as it is a science.

    7. DMDhar Mann43:34

       Half of our revenue from content comes from just repurposing the same videos into other platforms or into different types of content. Here's what I mean. In traditional media, if you create a hit franchise, right? Let's say Friends or Seinfeld. How many times are you able to sell that show to so many different places? You're watching it on Netflix, you're watching it on Hulu, you're watching it on Disney, all these different places. So the people that created that p- that content, they can keep monetizing it over and over. But on social media, it doesn't work that way for creators. You put out one piece of content, whatever it's gonna generate in the first 30 days is typically about 95% of the money that you're ever gonna make. But it doesn't have to be that way. And so what I started doing was I started figuring out ways to give that content new life. I started doing this several years ago. Now it's a little bit more known of a system. But let's say I create a YouTube video, and that video is 21 minutes. I am being served an audience that is watching that video who wants to consume 21-minute videos. These are people that are probably eating dinner and have about 20 minutes to watch, watching in their living room. But there's a whole nother group out there of people that want two-hour videos, and that's what the algorithm is serving them. And then so what I did was I took my existing videos, and I would combine, if they're about 20 minutes each, I would combine, combine six of them, and I would come up with a theme. Let's say there's a whole theme around kindness. You know, the kindness you put out into the world always comes back to you. That is what I consider packaging. I'll put six videos together that have that sort of a lesson, and then I will put that on a standalone channel as a separate video, and now YouTube is gonna go and serve a whole different audience that content. So now out of those six videos, I'm getting another life out of that content. You do this with your content. A lot of people do this with content. That's a known thing. The other thing that we do is cutting down the content. A lot of people know clipping, of course, now. You take that same piece of content, you find one-minute versions, you put it on TikTok, you put it on Instagram Reels, you put it on YouTube Shorts. Yeah, great. That might not be generating much revenue, but it's helping you gain a certain level of exposure that ideally is gonna lead to long-form views back to your main YouTube channel, your podcast, whatever it is. But we also do something called re-versioning, which is taking a 20-minute piece of content, and we'll cut it down into, let's say, a seven-minute video. We'll look at the retention graphs of the video. We'll take the most interesting parts. And before we post it, we have a whole system of testing that piece of content. We'll take a 20-minute piece of content, create 20 different versions of it in a seven-minute video, run Facebook ads. And by the way, when I say this, I know, I know it sounds expensive. I'm talking about we'll spend like $5 testing each video, see what the best performing one was, and then post that one on our Facebook. So it just goes back to having a system in place of testing, of optimizing. These are the things that are gonna ultimately help lead you to long-term success. That's the difference between what big creators are doing and smaller creators that they may not understand. It's not that big creators have more time in their day. They're not necessarily working harder than you are. I know lots of small creators are probably working just as hard, if not harder as I am. They just have a method of doing things. And so if you can learn what those methods are, that's gonna give you the advantage for success. I'll give you one last analogy. If someone asked you, "Go out and cut as many trees as you possibly can," and they're gonna give you 30 days to accomplish that job and hand you a pickaxe, what are you gonna do? Most people would grab that ax and start chopping. And sure, in the beginning, they're making progress. Let's say that they can cut one tree a day. I don't know how this all works, how many trees you can cut a day. I'm not encouraging anyone to cut trees. Let me get that.

    8. JSJay Shetty47:50

       [laughs]

    9. DMDhar Mann47:50

       Let me also get that out there. All right? Um, we love trees. But that one person can, let's just say, cut one tree a day for simplicity. The other person goes and thinks, "Hey, I'm not gonna start cutting trees. I'm gonna create a system for cutting trees. I'm gonna create a tree-cutting company. I'm gonna go out and recruit people now or build a whole tree manufacturing facility, and I'm gonna spend 29 days doing this." So on the surface, it looks like that one person that's cutting trees, they're way ahead. They've cut 29 trees in 29 days while the other person hasn't cut a single one. But on the 30th day, when that person shows up with an army of tree cutters and all their sophisticated tools and supplies and a whole factory, they're gonna cut 300 trees on the day that someone was gonna cut one. So focus on building the company, not the content.

    10. JSJay Shetty48:50

        Yeah. Well said.

    11. DMDhar Mann48:51

        So step four is R, reach people emotionally. And the whole idea is that we're so obsessed about having the perfect edit or the perfect lighting or the perfect angle. All those things at the end of the day, yeah, they help a little bit, but that's not gonna be the reason why people watch. No one is listening to this podcast right now or watching it on a video think, "Oh my gosh, the podcast isn't great, but the lighting, the lighting is amazing," or the sound effects or whatever else. So it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Don't try to worry about being so polished. The real successis in trying to keep that emotional resonance with your audience. We call it retention, but really what is retention of any video?

12. 49:39 – 54:20

    The Key To Connection

    1. DMDhar Mann49:39

       It's your ability to connect emotionally with an audience. The only reason that people are still listening right now is they're feeling something. That is the ultimate retention graph.

    2. JSJay Shetty49:49

       Mm.

    3. DMDhar Mann49:49

       So don't get overly concerned about all these metrics and the data and all those things. Yeah, they matter in architecting the system, but you also have to reach people emotionally. And with my content, I think that's why it has worked. I have so many families, for instance, that watch our videos. So many moms come to me and they say, "Dhar, I have a hard time trying to get my teenager to listen to anything I say. But for some reason, when they watch your videos, they suddenly get the lesson. And because now I've been able to embrace watching your videos with them as part of our nightly routine, that's actually improved the relationship that I have with my child."

    4. JSJay Shetty50:33

       Wow.

    5. DMDhar Mann50:33

       That is an emotional connection, right, that exists and has been the secret for our success. Because people feel something, they'll wanna share it with others. They'll wanna comment. My favorite comment is, "This video made me cry." "This video improved my relationship with my spouse." "This video helped me realize that even if I failed, I can get back up and try again." And I'm sure your comments and your DMs are flooded with those sorts of things. So I would say that's step four, try to reach the heart.

    6. JSJay Shetty51:08

       I couldn't agree more. I remember years ago, this is before... I mean, this is, this is an old, old article. There was research done on, I think it was, like, 7,000 pieces of viral content, and I believe it was in The New York Times, and they found that there were only five reasons content went viral, and it was because you made people feel one of these five things. It was adventure. So when you see someone, like, skydiving or you see someone, like, uh, water-skiing or whatever it is, someone's doing something that makes you feel a sense of adventure, or they're traveling and, like, you feel this thrill and this burst of like, "Wow, they're on a journey." The second was humor. So our good friend Adam W-

    7. DMDhar Mann51:55

       [laughs]

    8. JSJay Shetty51:55

       ... who knows how to do this best. Like, when people laugh. In the same way as your comments are, "This made me cry," people who say, "This made me crack up. I sent this to my friend. We're rolling on the floor laughing." Like, making people feel humor, a comedy video. I was watching-

    9. DMDhar Mann52:08

       Or, "I laughed so hard I cried."

    10. JSJay Shetty52:10

        Yeah. Or [laughs] -

    11. DMDhar Mann52:10

        Yeah [laughs]

    12. JSJay Shetty52:11

        ... or that. Or that.

    13. DMDhar Mann52:11

        Then you get both. [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty52:12

        Yeah, then you get both. Or, "Cried so hard I laughed," I guess-

    15. DMDhar Mann52:15

        Yeah

    16. JSJay Shetty52:15

        ... in your case too. But, like, yeah, I was watching a clip of Trevor Noah the other day from his new special, and it was so funny. That again is one of them. So humor. So adventure, humor. The third was negativity. So the news makes you feel a certain way. That's why we don't skip a news story. It's why we share it. It's why we talk about it, is because it makes us feel something, in that case, negativity. Fourth was inspiration, which is yours and what I try and focus on as well, is that our content makes people feel inspired, or that's at least our intention. And the fifth was surprise. And I think you do this really as well as well, 'cause your stories have so many, like-

    17. DMDhar Mann52:51

        [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty52:51

        ... turning points and twists and things like that.

    19. DMDhar Mann52:53

        Right.

    20. JSJay Shetty52:53

        And so a sense of surprise. So the point is, I always say this to creators, if your content doesn't make you feel adventure, humor, negativity, hopefully not-

    21. DMDhar Mann53:04

        [laughs]

    22. JSJay Shetty53:04

        ... inspiration or surprise-

    23. DMDhar Mann53:06

        Yeah

    24. JSJay Shetty53:07

        ... it won't be shared, and therefore it won't be seen. And I feel a, a lot of people are like, "What is this gonna teach someone?" Or, "What is this gonna, like... What are people gonna remember?" And it's like, no, no, no. What do people feel when they watch your content, when they hear you speak, when they hear your voice, when they look into your eyes? What do they feel? And so I love that, uh, reaching your audience is the fourth aspect.

    25. DMDhar Mann53:30

        Yeah, reaching their hearts, reaching them emotionally.

    26. JSJay Shetty53:33

        Reaching their hearts, yeah.

    27. DMDhar Mann53:33

        And number five is turn views into impact, right? You can get a lot of views and still be unsuccessful. You can get hardly any views and still be very successful. Because at the end of the day, I think we're all here on this earth to make some sort of a positive impact, right? Nobody wants to spend their life doing something that they're not proud of or didn't feel like someone was better off because of their existence. So more important than just trying to chase numbers, chase meaning, chase adding value and giving back, and that's what the whole brand has been built around, is letting people know that even on your worst day, that brighter days are ahead, that you can

13. 54:20 – 55:52

    Turning Content Into Impact

    1. DMDhar Mann54:20

       fail. Everything can go wrong, but you still will get a second chance. Everyone deserves a second chance. If they never ask for your side of the story, then the side that they heard is already everything that they already feel about you. So don't waste your time explaining yourself to people who are dedicated to misunderstanding you.

    2. JSJay Shetty54:39

       That five-step system is absolutely brilliant. The three reasons to pivot were fantastic. I really feel like if anyone follows that, they actually have the exact blueprint you need to build a successful business, whether it's a YouTube channel, whether it's a product, a podcast, or whatever it may be. And I know how dedicated you've been to your mission. Like, it's so clear to me, 'cause I know all the ups and downs that come with everything you go through, and the fact that you've held onto that and how important that was to you. So much of that is based on your own story, and I wanna kind of go back there for a second. I'm sure it almost brings tears to your eyes to, like, think about how when a kid messages you or sees you or runs up to you at, like, Disney, which I've seen videos of this happening-

    3. DMDhar Mann55:28

       [laughs]

    4. JSJay Shetty55:28

       Where, like, you're out at Disney with your kids, and other people's kids run up to you and they want pictures with you, and they recognize you, and they are moved by your videos. I mean, I'm sure that makes you just goGod, I never thought when I was going through all that stuff that this would be happening

    5. DMDhar Mann55:43

       I'm so grateful for where I am in my journey because when I turned 30 years old, I reached the lowest point

14. 55:52 – 1:06:12

    The Moment Everything Fell Apart

    1. DMDhar Mann55:52

       in my life, and I truly felt that my life was over. I was broke. I was depressed. I just got out of a bad breakup. I had anxiety. I had depression. I had family issues. I was days away from getting evicted from my apartment. And honestly, I'm sure, like, those listening have probably felt this type of feeling before. It just felt like everything I have ever dreamed of was falling apart, and my life was not gonna amount to anything. And I stayed in that low place for a long time. The one thing that really helped me was reading stories of inspirational people. And it turned out that every person that we look up to that is successful, they've encountered a lot of failures leading up to that success. So I read stories about how Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team or how Oprah was fired from her job as a radio host or how J.K. Rowling had so many publishers turn her down before Harry Potter came out or how Walt Disney alm-- went bankrupt multiple times before even coming up with Mickey Mouse. And reading those stories made me realize that failure is not the opposite of success. That it's actually a part of success. Those people didn't become successful because they didn't fail. They kept-- They became successful because they kept pushing through those failures until they finally got to success. So that motivated me to keep going. And what I decided to do was that's when I started thinking, "How many other people are out there that are struggling like I am? What is the one thing that makes me unique? What is my superpower?" I just failed a lot [laughs] more than everybody else. I made a lot more mistakes than most people out there. So instead of hiding from that, I'm gonna embrace that. I'm gonna talk about that openly because that's not something that you hear quite often people say, "I messed up. I'm wrong. I failed." I'm sure a lot of women hearing this probably wish that their husbands would say this more often or vice versa, you know? So I started saying that, right? That here's what all the things that I did wrong in my life. And in the beginning, I would just talk to camera thinking that, you know, my videos would go viral because I was giving this profound advice. And I remember posting my very first video on my birthday 'cause I thought, "Oh, I'm gonna get extra love. You know, I'm gonna get prioritized in the algorithm 'cause everyone's gonna be coming to my page." So I post this video, and I refresh, and I refresh, and I refresh, and that video got no views. It didn't even break 100 views at that time. And I kept thinking, like, "If I could just get a comma in that number," right? And for a long time, I thought that the algorithm was broken, that something was wrong because this video was so good. No one was watching my videos early on, but you know what? Because this was mission-driven and because I was trying to help people get through hard times, I kept going. I kept putting out video after video, and ultimately, I started switching my formats. That's when I started storytelling. My views went from 100 to maybe 500. So then when I started storytelling, you know, the ceiling that I got up to was about 1,000 views, and I couldn't seem to break past that. And so as much as I tried, I kept putting out video after video. Nothing seemed to break that ceiling, and I got a little discouraged. And so one day, I told my wife, I said, "You know, I'm thinking about giving up. Maybe I wanna still inspire people. I wanna... But maybe, like, creating videos is not my way of doing that. Maybe it's writing a book or maybe it's talking on stage." And God bless Laura. She's like, "No, you, you h- can't give up. Like, I see how passionate you are about this. You have to keep going." So I keep putting out videos. I keep, you know, every single week, no matter what, I kept being consistent, kept showing up, kept putting out video after video, and still none of them were breaking 1,000 views. So one day I tell Laura, "All right. You know what? I have tried my best. It's just not working out for me. I'm just not meant to create videos. So this next video that I create is gonna be my last one." She didn't wanna accept that, but, you know, she supported me in my decision. So I used to write my scripts on napkins at that time, and everything was a story that taught some sort of a positive lesson. And at that time, my brother-in-law was visiting me and my wife's friend was over. This was in our small studio apartment. So I'm writing this story on a napkin, and I decide to talk about infidelity and about how infidelity can start with seemingly small, innocent acts, such as liking an ex's Facebook post. So I came up with this idea about this husband who's liking this ex's Facebook post while his wife is cooking him dinner in the kitchen. As I'm staring at this napkin, I look up and I see my brother-in-law scrolling Facebook on his phone with my wife's friend cooking something in the kitchen with her back to him, and I suddenly got this inspiration. I don't-- Call it serendipity. Call it fate. Call it God. Whatever it is. 'Cause at that time, keep in mind, I wasn't doing any visual storytelling. I wasn't creating scripted content. So I walk over to my brother-in-law and my wife's friend and I said, "Hey, will you guys be in this video?"They're like, "What do we have to do?" And I was like, "Nothing. Just literally stand there and do what you're doing." I mean, in hindsight, I probably should have told my brother-in-law that I'm portraying him as a cheater. [laughs]

    2. JSJay Shetty1:01:53

       [laughs]

    3. DMDhar Mann1:01:54

       But I just was like, "No one's gonna watch this anyway." So I had one team member at that time. I ask him to record on an iPhone, right? And instead of me telling a story just talking to camera, I narrate a story while my brother-in-law and my wife's friend are just doing what they're doing. And I'm saying, "Hey, you know, uh, cheating can start a relatively innocent act, such as liking..." I, I'm narrating this whole story. I shoot the video. I go to bed that night, don't think anything of it. I schedule that video to go live at six o'clock in the morning. The next morning, Laura's waking me up. She's shaking me. She's like, "Dhar, Dhar, wake up." I'm like, "Whoa, what's going on?" She's like, "That video that you posted, it's going viral." And I'm like, "Yeah, right." I'm still half asleep. I'm like rubbing my eyes, like trying to see it. And sure enough, the last video that I ever planned on posting was the one that went viral. And I say this story because I want people to know that you could always be one opportunity, one phone call, one door, one piece of content away from massive success, from achieving all of your dreams that you've ever wanted, and you'll never know unless you keep going. Because imagine if I had given up one video before. None of this would've ever happened. So going back to your story about how it feels now when people come to me and they say, "Dhar, I watch your content," the reason that it feels so special to me is because I know that I started putting out content for people to be able to overcome their toughest times in life, to be able to know that if you failed, failure is an event. It is not a person, that you can pick yourself back up and keep going. So it's more so the way that people describe how my videos have affected them or how they've-- my videos have brought them closer to their mom or their spouse or their children, or helped them believe in themselves or feel seen in a way that they've never felt before. That's the greatest gift of all.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:04:15

       I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, it's, it's so interesting to me how you are always one win away.

    5. DMDhar Mann1:04:24

       Never underestimate God's ability to change your life in an instant. You're much closer than you ever think, and it could happen tomorrow, but you would not know unless you keep going.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:04:38

       If you put yourself back there and someone told you this was gonna be the journey you were on, I guess you wouldn't even believe it.

    7. DMDhar Mann1:04:44

       It didn't even seem possible, you know? I was just so broken. I had failed so much in my life that I honestly felt like my life was over, that I was never gonna amount to anything, that none of my dreams were ever gonna work out. I had worries that on my tombstone, people were gonna say, "Here is Dhar Mann, the biggest failure that has ever existed." Like, literally, that is what went through my, my mind. And so if you could tell me back then that I would be where I am today, like, I would just say, "You're, you're crazy." Like, there's absolutely no way.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:05:21

       Mm.

    9. DMDhar Mann1:05:21

       And I think that's what gives me so gratitude, so much gratitude, like, for this journey, and that's why every step, every win, I am so appreciative of that because I remember what it's like to be on the other side of this and feeling like completely hopeless.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:05:38

        Talk to me about the importance of having a good partner when you're an aspiring entrepreneur.

    11. DMDhar Mann1:05:45

        For me, having the right partner is the biggest decision that you will ever make in your life. And when you're choosing the right partner, don't choose someone that you can have fun with. You should choose someone that you can struggle with. Because anyone's gonna be there during your good times. When you're high on life, when money is flowing, when it seems like everything you touch

15. 1:06:12 – 1:10:39

    Choosing the Wrong Partner Can Cost You Everything

    1. DMDhar Mann1:06:12

       turns to gold, guess what? There's gonna be a whole army of people around that wanna be your friend. But when you're at your lowest moment, when you're there sitting in the emergency room at three o'clock in the morning, how many people are gonna show up to hold your hand? Very few people. And when you find that person, that is the person that is meant to be in your life, and Laura has been that person for me. I'm so thankful that she came into my life because she came from a different set of values and upbringing than I did, and she helped straighten my life in a way that I never would've been able to. I grew up where operating in a gray area was okay, right? Like if, as long as you made money, it was okay. The means didn't have to justify the ends kind of a thing. But Laura came in, and she was so black and white about everything, her morals, about, you know, the way that one should live, and that really helped to get me on a better path in my life. She believed in me when I had nothing. Like, in the beginning, I couldn't even afford the ticket for the parking garage when she came to visit me. Like, that's how broke I was. But she still saw something in me that I couldn't even see in myself, and she kept believing me, and she kept making me feel like all these big dreams I had, all these ideas, that they weren't silly, that they weren't over, that I could still achieve them if I just focused and worked hard enough. You know, I remember early on-Uh, there was this influencer brand trip that we got invited to, and the brand that was paying for it would only buy economy tickets. They wouldn't buy business class. I was just grateful to get a plane ticket, but what I didn't realize is that every other influencer paid to upgrade their ticket. And at this time, Laura was the influencer. I wasn't creating content. [chuckles] So these were all her friends. So all of her friends were sitting in first class, and Laura and I came onto the plane, and you probably know this feeling. Anyone listening to this probably knows the feeling. We walked by first class, and all of her friends are watching, and we went all the way to economy, and, like, the friends in the seats, they were kind of, like, looking at us, somewhat judging. I felt so embarrassed, and I said, "Babe," like, "I'm so sorry that I couldn't afford to upgrade us to first class." And she's like, "As long as you're next to me, that's all that matters. I don't care if we're sitting in economy. I don't care if we're riding the bus." And, like, at that point where I felt like I was nothing and I was just humiliated and was, you know, um, sort of laughed at because of that, to have someone that believed in me and stood by me despite that, that meant so much to me. And, you know, what's interesting is, like, fast-forward to today, [chuckles] a lot of those people, you know, riding in first class are now the ones riding in economy because they didn't manage their money well or they were spending, you know, incorrectly. And I'm grateful to have built success in a way where, you know, we've managed our finances well and made good long-term decisions where we've built something sustainable, so we can fly the way that we choose to now.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:09:47

       I mean, I, I love hearing about your relationship 'cause I know Laura. She's incredible. Like, she's unbelievable. She's such a special force of a human, and I know how much she loves you and cares about you, and so hearing about you speak about her in that way is, is super, super heartwarming. What has love taught you that success never could?

    3. DMDhar Mann1:10:08

       I think in success you think about the big wins, but love is actually in the details. And I'll give you a great example of this. One time Laura and I were flying to go see her favorite artist perform. Laura was so excited. She gets unbelievably excited when it comes to, like, seeing her favorite artist, and she spent all this time on her makeup, on her outfit. She had all the pictures planned that she was gonna

16. 1:10:39 – 1:14:44

    What Love Teaches You That Success Can’t

    1. DMDhar Mann1:10:39

       take. We get to the concert, and her phone dies. She forgot to charge her phone. Now, I could look at that and say, "Why didn't you think to charge your phone?" and blame her for that. But instead, I took it as something I missed because I know my wife. She's not the best at charging her phone. [laughs]

    2. JSJay Shetty1:11:02

       [laughs]

    3. DMDhar Mann1:11:02

       And it's also very important to her to take great content for moments that she enjoys. So going forward, after that day, now today, whenever we go anywhere, whenever we travel, as soon as we get to the hotel, I put her phone on the charger. I always look for any opportunity that she could run into a problem and think, "How could I prevent that before she experiences that pain?" And by the way, because of things that have gone wrong in the past, that's why now I always have snacks on me.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:11:36

       [laughs]

    5. DMDhar Mann1:11:37

       I always have Advil. I always have safety pins. I always have boob tape or tampons-

    6. JSJay Shetty1:11:43

       [laughs]

    7. DMDhar Mann1:11:43

       ... or whatever it is because sometime in the past, Laura has really needed something that she didn't have, and I saw it as an opportunity for the way that I could serve her better. So literally and figuratively, Laura's gas tank is always full, and she doesn't have to worry about it. So love taught me that it's in noticing the small details, and you win when you serve others. Taking that same application can also apply to business, and when I did that, that's when I started winning big. When it came to my team members, for instance, or it came to certain brand partners. If I'm in a room and I happen to overhear someone say that their favorite artist is coming to town, I'm just gonna surprise them with artist tickets. They wouldn't even know that I was listening. Or if I happen to overhear a conversation of someone saying they always wanted to learn how to play guitar, I'm gonna surprise them with a guitar and try to sign them up for guitar lessons. If there's someone that tells me that they have a child, I'm not gonna say, "How old is your kid again?" the third time I met them. I'm gonna say, "Your kid is six, right? Her name is Ava. She's in kindergarten. How's kindergarten going for her?" That makes somebody feel seen in noticing the small details, and that's what transcends people feeling like the reason that they exist in your life is for some sort of business purpose and that you truly care about them.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:13:19

       Mm.

    9. DMDhar Mann1:13:19

       So I'd say love has actually taught me quite a bit in how I could actually apply those same lessons to business that has made me more successful.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:13:28

        There's so many connections in how we treat one person and to how you treat your company and to how you treat your partner, and it's almost so much of it is so much more interconnected than we give it credit for. And I think a long time ago, everyone would be like, "Well, this is how I treat this group of people, and this is how I treat this group of people." And you start to realize that our mind's not that good at segmentation. It's almost just bleeding the energy that you have for one person into the other. Dhar, I've learned so much today. You have, uh-As always, even though we've had many, many dinners, Indian dinners usually-

    11. DMDhar Mann1:13:59

        [laughs]

    12. JSJay Shetty1:14:00

        ... where we're having these conversations, I feel like I've learned so much more today, not just about your journey, about strategy, about growth, about your approach to business. I think people are gonna get a lot of value from this. We end every episode of On Purpose with the Final Five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum.

    13. DMDhar Mann1:14:16

        Oh, shoot. [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty1:14:17

        So Dhar Mann, these are your Final Five, brought to you by State Farm. First question, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

    15. DMDhar Mann1:14:24

        The reason that you have certain big ideas and dreams in your head is because God put them there for a reason. God wouldn't put these big ideas, these big dreams, these big notions in your head that keep you up at night because you're so excited about this vision of what your life can look

17. 1:14:44 – 1:18:52

    Dhar on Final Five

    1. DMDhar Mann1:14:44

       like if you weren't meant to achieve them. So always remember that God's vision for your life is bigger than your own. Don't doubt Him, and sometimes all you have to do is get out of your own way.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:14:58

       Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

    3. DMDhar Mann1:15:02

       The worst advice that I ever received was someone said, "Dhar, you should change your name." [laughs] And that's because at that point in my life, I had failed so many times that the only thing associated with my name was failure. And for a long time, honestly, I did think about changing my name, but then I realized there's so many people out there just like me that feel like a failure. I wanted to create a brand that lets people know that you can have second chances in life. You can get knocked down and get back up again. And so instead, I decided to create a whole studio that is now [laughs] one of the biggest storytelling studios in the world that lets people know that regardless of how bad life has been, better days are ahead, and my name is associated with positivity and overcoming hardship. So I'm glad that I didn't listen to [laughs] that advice.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:16:07

       What were you thinking of? What were the ideas? What was the shortlist?

    5. DMDhar Mann1:16:09

       I probably would've changed my name to Jay, you know?

    6. JSJay Shetty1:16:11

       [laughs]

    7. DMDhar Mann1:16:11

       Like, good things would've happened, I would say.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:16:12

       What was the shortlist?

    9. DMDhar Mann1:16:13

       [laughs]

    10. JSJay Shetty1:16:14

        Question number three, what makes a good friend?

    11. DMDhar Mann1:16:17

        Someone that focuses on giving more than getting. A good friend is not somebody who shows up just when times are good, when money is flowing, when it feels like you can't miss, 'cause there's always so many people wanting to be in your life then. A good friend is someone who shows up during your hardest times, someone who shows up at the emergency room at 3:00 in the morning and is holding your hand, letting you know that you're gonna get through this. So whoever's with you during your struggle, they're the ones that deserve to be with you during your success.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:16:50

        Question number four, what do you say to yourself when you're at rock bottom in your most difficult moments?

    13. DMDhar Mann1:16:58

        Don't underestimate God's ability to change your life in an instant. God's vision for your life is so much bigger than your own, and a lot of times the reason that stops us from getting that life is us. We're holding on to things that He's trying to remove. How many of us have stayed in that bad relationship or stayed in that bad friendship group or hung on to those bad habits or those bad ideas or the bad job or situations? We have to get out of our own way. When God is trying to remove certain things from your life, let Him, because you can't hold on to today's burdens and also receive tomorrow's blessings.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:17:43

        Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

    15. DMDhar Mann1:17:52

        Just be kind to one another. You never know what someone is going through. People don't walk around with signs saying, "I'm trying to hold it all together right now." We tend to think of the people that have, like, the big public breakdowns as the ones that are really struggling, but there are so many people out there that are struggling in silence, and you'd never know. So just be compassionate, because you never know what someone is going through.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:18:18

        Dhar, obviously I'm so excited about this because you just launched your own podcast-

    17. DMDhar Mann1:18:23

        [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty1:18:24

        ... which I know has been in the works for many, many years.

    19. DMDhar Mann1:18:26

        Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:18:26

        Tell us about the podcast.

    21. DMDhar Mann1:18:27

        It's called What Happens Next? And the reason I came up with that name is every successful person in life, they've all encountered so many failures, so many hardships, but what matters the most? What happens next? So this podcast is just a platform where I sit down with some of the most inspirational people in the world that have overcome some of the biggest challenges

18. 1:18:52 – 1:20:15

    The Story Behind What Happens Next?

    1. DMDhar Mann1:18:52

       and have still gotten to unbelievable success. And so for anyone that's looking to get inspiration or advice, I think it'd be a great, uh, podcast to listen to. I'm really excited. And I hope that one day that you'll come on the show as well.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:19:05

       Absolutely, man. Absolutely.

    3. DMDhar Mann1:19:06

       [laughs]

    4. JSJay Shetty1:19:06

       Congrats.

    5. DMDhar Mann1:19:07

       Yeah.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:19:07

       I can't wait to tune in, and so excited for people to check out What Happens Next?

    7. DMDhar Mann1:19:11

       Yeah. Thank you so much.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:19:11

       That's awesome, man. Dhar, I'm so excited to see what you continue to build with your company, your mission, your drive. I am your friend all the way. I'm excited for you. I'm pumped for you. I can't wait to see you keep winning. I'm excited to see the content you're gonna create, whether it's film, TV, movies. I know you've got so many incredible plans in the studio you're building, and it's amazing to see what you've created. I can't wait to be able to... I can't wait till you start building theme parks. Like, I'm like-

    9. DMDhar Mann1:19:39

       [laughs]

    10. JSJay Shetty1:19:39

        I'm just ready for it, man. So I'll be right there, uh, lining up to attend all of it. And I want to thank you for being such an incredible source of inspiration in the world to millions of people across the world and for being a dear friend. I appreciate you deeply. Thank you, man.

    11. DMDhar Mann1:19:52

        Yeah, it's a huge honor. Thank you so much.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:19:54

        Thank you, brother.

    13. DMDhar Mann1:19:54

        Love you, brother.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:19:55

        Thank you, man. If this is the year you're finally ready to start that business, level up your goals, or build real momentum in your life, you need to hear my conversation with Alex Hormozi.

    15. SPSpeaker1:20:05

        I have, um, a very simple framework that I encourage people who are starting out to follow, which I call CLOSER. So C stands for clarify, which you begin the conversation by like, "Hey, why'd you respond to my thing?"

Episode duration: 1:20:15